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London Mayor Election – The Muslim Vote #02

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Haitham al-Haddad

Channel: Haitham al-Haddad

Episode Notes

Episode Transcript

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As you know, legally in house, I think this

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is something that we need to happen, it needs to become part of our culture. I think that's a key point it needs to become part of our culture is still alien. And that's why we have these questions into making difference. But

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also,

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just be a little cautious, because I don't want to say that there is a such a thing as a

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beach ball, and that the Muslims can make a difference and single handedly in that sense. Having said that, so that's the disclaimer. Okay, so everyone's got having said that 40% of the Muslim population living

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in the UK, 40% actually live in London. Add to that 45% of Muslims

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across the country are 25.

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Okay, this is a very young generation. Okay. So these people, these young Muslims, okay, they have, they will have aspirations, they have needs and everything else, and it's going to be exactly what is mentioned. There are 20 seats, definitely where Muslims are more than 20% of the electorate. Okay, for MPs for for for constituency for a Member of Parliament, media. Well, those areas? Yes, yeah, in those areas, the Muslim population is so big, that he actually can swing the vote in favor of in hand. But that doesn't necessarily mean the Muslim community is going to vote in block. Okay. Because that that's, that's kind of, if we try to work towards that, that's going to be kind of

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something that we're gonna fail. And that's gonna I think it's problematic is sort of Yeah.

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Yeah, exactly. So the way to approach and and that's what we're trying to do, the way to approach all of this is exactly what I said is on what really Muslims, like anyone else have issues with, we have to make it, you know, we have to kind of bring it back down to where the citizens actually say, you know, what, Mr. MP or Mr. councilor, or whatever, if you want my vote, this is what's important to tell me where you stand on this, is just bring it back to that. And that's, that's gonna take time something happened overnight. Yeah. I mean, obviously, is like providing, providing, I don't know that it is suitable to mention this, but to provide a person or to teach a person how to fish,

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rather than just giving him

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to teach him It takes time, correct? Yeah. But it is more productive in the long run. Yeah. I mean,

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we're in agreement, everyone agrees that Muslims should be active in some capacity or another. And we don't want to give the impression that we just kind of talking to those people who, you know, are completely outside or completely sleeping, whatever. I'm glad most people who are engaged with who, you know, tend to be ill or come to some tenancy. They, they already kind of, on the same page with so many of these things. The conversations we do have I have been seeing and reading and listening to for the last few weeks. I'm more along the lines of as follows. Everyone agrees, you know, we housing is important transport and so forth. But due to the the last few weeks, and perhaps the

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record, you know, of some of the candidates standing. Yeah, so we have for labor we have saw the con is, you know, being pushed the Muslim

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kind of candidate. He's He's, I mean, he's himself, he has been saying, you know, he wrote in The Guardian that, you know, having a Muslim Mayor would send a good message to the world and so forth. Muslim Oh, London, the other hand you have on the trolleys, Zac Goldsmith, and it seems to be a two horse race from the the poles, you know, that kind of connects on to Kansas, just ahead. The question that I do hear from Muslims is, however, that when it

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you know, housing, trans stuff, fair enough age we care about, everything happens around us. But it becomes a matter of the personality more than the policy. So Sadiq Khan, he's been attacked, for example, in the last few weeks BY ZACH Collins, Goldsmith's campaign for sharing a platform with so called extremist. So what can I just interrupt you in all of these things that you're hearing? And because you've said this phrase a few times, we hate we all know that housing, education, employment, and policing, all of this is important. We will notice you said that a few times. And in those discussions where everyone knows these things are important. Can you tell me once when

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actually, someone discussed what Zac Goldsmith stands for in terms of housing? Yeah. What sided constants were in terms of housing? This is a group I agree. Yeah. Did they do that? No, no, don't do that. And that's why and so what we're gonna do is, deal with the actual root cause of the problem, what symptoms of symptom and I don't want to kind of go into the discussion in answering these now because it's

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It's a waste of time. It's just like having now a discussion whether Can you vote or not, it's a waste of time. Okay. Some people will have an opinion, they will always have that opinion or humbler. Let them is a free country, they can have their opinion, what we've got to do is we have to build on the positivity. And I think, you know, where you witness these things in the future, and I say this to everyone that's watching, as we witness these things, you know, get into the actual discussion of what these people staff forget about whether he's a Muslim, or he's a Jew, every man, whether it's a woman, whether it's black, whether it's brown, forget about all of these things for a

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moment, and just focus on what is it these guys actually stand for?

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And you find this will be like pulling teeth.

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Yeah, so that's what I know me. It's exciting. Yeah, it's easy, I think, I think for whatever reason, yeah. And one of the candidates or some of the candidates, maybe hijack the scene, and then instead of letting the discussion to be over these important things, all of a sudden, the discussion started about you shared a platform or two sort of so on. So So it means that you are different. And on top of that, I don't know that I can say too much. But the Prime Minister when he was involved in this discussion he made

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yes, no, we can't say that. We should say this, we should say this is

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our our responsibilities. What is to be honest, every every single London, single one who's involved in voting or in the in what's going to happen on Thursday, I think that they should absolutely reject, absolutely reject the narrative that has emerged over the past few weeks, and which, remarkably, remarkably, the Prime Minister found appropriate to get involved with on the parliamentary privilege. I mean, it was absolutely disgusting. That all of a sudden, so the campaign about London is lies about you media

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became about any man Who, who, who it turns out, yeah, it's quite friendly with all the political,

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political campaigns and someone who was quite respectable in his own community. So I think that it's incredibly important that we citizens, we reject the absolutely reject, and refuse to engage in the kind of,

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you know, the has emerged, and we return, we shift the focus back on once. And back to this, I absolutely agree with us at the other day, I was I was in Leeds in West Yorkshire over the over the weekend. And I had some discussions because, again, they have their council election, they have the police commission, elections over there are people who are asking me and we were having these these discussions and debates. And someone said, Yeah, you know, none of them is a Muslim, you know, who do I and I said, Listen, can I can I just ask you a question? If you were, God forbid, if you were ill. And you know, and you were searching for a doctor, you know, would you would you care about,

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you know, how they would believe? Or would you search for the best doctor. And in the case of the elections that we're having right now, this is precisely it. We are looking for the mayor who will deliver the best services and the best policies for the future, London, because when the best is delivered for everyone, all the SP Muslims will benefit as well as all the communities that make up London will benefit. And that is what is important. That's the kind of discussion but I also agree with it as an how many of us have looked at Sadiq Khan's manifesto? How many of us have read Zac Goldsmith? his manifesto? The others, for instance, you know, for those who are saying, well, I

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can't I can't really bring myself to vote either of us all the time, which is an Goldsmith. Well, have you tried reading, for instance, the greens respect, the Lib Dems? Any others the independence for that? Have you tried doing that? The problem is, again, we're looking for quick fix solution. Yeah. And it doesn't work. Yeah. Can I add one more thing, please? Okay, this is fine. What you have mentioned, but we just look at it from maybe a broader perspective.

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From a political perspective, in general, at least,

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you know, that's why I asked you to substantiate this fact or to prove it that

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the mayor is the second powerful position, because someone might look at it from this perspective, that we need the balance of powers. So if the power now is in the hands of the 2d only of the conservatives, only then it might become problematic and we have seen what you have said is absolutely true. But we have seen the policies of the conservative, especially against Muslims and all these laws that have

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been introduced. So if all the power would be in their hands, that would be problematic for us. So maybe this doesn't apply. But I don't want to give people the wrong idea.

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Because the because you the point you raised is interesting. But the Mayor of London will not have an impact have an impact.

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What am Yeah, yeah. So yeah, so that that was for 2015. Last year, when we had the general election, that's when Muslims should have voted for whoever they should have voted for to bring this policy back.

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About what it does. And and I think this is where I can agree with them. What it does is it does

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a person coming from a different ideological background, different political background,

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than what is in government

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is a kind of opposition. voice to the other side. Well, I think that's, that's that's what was happening. But I don't want that to be confused. The legislative side of Yes. Yeah. And I think that should take them. I think that what you're asking, I can answer in a different way. As when I first opened I said, London has an importance globally. London, is suits is looked at, from the Middle East, the album's worlds, the Far East, from Africa, such London is a very, very important capital, it's very important because it 10s of billions of people coming vacant, you know, they have their vacations and holidays, and they come and there are 10s of millions around the world who come and

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invest, you know, their savings, they come by property, they come in, you know, trading the stock. And there are also millions who come and treat and use the healthcare system private and like, so London is important globally. Now, the question is, and this is part of the message that Sadiq Khan and his campaign spent early early on that having a Muslim Mayor will have a positive impact send a very positive message in that London ism is truly a multicultural, a very tolerant society that it sees absolutely no problem whatsoever in the crazy narrative that we're seeing globally about the you know, the war on terror and, and Islamophobia on the side, to actually vote, you know, a Muslim

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mayor, you know, to head the city to city hall, you know, that at this particular time. So that might be part of the message. And if that is to be sought after, then that that might be right. But once again, I think that our focus must be about London and the services delivered to London, I think it's extremely important that the mayor who comes in is competent. I think that a mayor who needs to come in is someone who actually delivers on their promises. I think whoever comes in is someone who delivers to London as what they have been missing for the past few years, and London has have been edged out of London, cost wise, London is have been forced to outside of Greater London

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simply because of the cost of living rent and purchasing and the such crime is on the up. And that is problematic. Whether it be from our point of view, Islamophobia or otherwise, is up that is problematic. Yeah. And I think that that should be our focus, as well as this Mayor needs to bring the world to the City of London, and he needs to bring investment so that then that could then enter the cycle of welfare and well being of London. So I think that that ought to be the main shift.

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I totally agree with what you have said, but we need as Muslims Otherwise, why are we discussing the Muslim vote? We can just discuss it voting on? Yeah. No, it means that our community has a responsibility. Okay. Our community has needs, you know, why do we feel embarrassed to say, well, we as Muslims, we need these needs? Yeah, no embarrassed? Yeah, we publish. And we actually put this many manifestos before each election research on the key priorities of the Muslim community. So besides all the needs that all the lenders, yeah, this is part of share. We need also to talk that by talking about our needs,

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and there's no problem. There's no problem with

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these discussions, I hope on one or two occasions I know because I was involved in some of them that I I hope that every single community that makes up the mosaic of London Yeah, it's also having similar discussions.

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You know, the the Caribbean guys in Lambeth, for instance, the the Hindu community and having these discussions about oh, you know, what Obama was standing. Okay. Eight years ago, the the black community in America, they were not embarrassed to say we would like to see a black president. Okay.

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Because this is the nature of the human beings, and even if he is an executive position

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at the end he will make a positive change for his community. This is this is his that is that confirmed about, in particular about Sadiq Khan on any particular person I'm talking about in general. My point is we as Muslims, yeah. Why do we feel embarrassed to say that? And as a Muslim? I really would like to see this.

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These things are presented to us.

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Heart of democracy. Yeah. Part of the progress and well being of democracy is that various interest groups become involved in the discussion based on their specific interests. Absolutely. Because no one else will speak about the interest.

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And we know we forget, we will talk about interest groups, which forget one of the most powerful interest groups which is businesses. Exactly. giant corporations. Yeah. Or environmentalist? Yeah. Yeah. So if they're all of this is, is is a sign of a healthy democracy. Everyone can have a say. And guess what? I'm not going to let us get off easy with the criticism that some people had specific criticism so fluffy at the moment. Yeah, I mean, it would be doing doing disservice to those who, who feel genuinely disenfranchised disempowered by the selection of before them.

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Zac Goldsmith comes campaign was very Islamophobic. It's been mentioned and criticized widely. The problem some people are having and which leads them to this maintain runs the same is Sadiq Khan didn't really defend the people who were smeared. Like you mentioned to them, and Bernie, I know that many others, but you know, can I just stop you there? I think there are some things, you know, I don't actually know exactly. The exact history.

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Yeah, and there are many, many different things. But let me just tell you this political of actually making it a personal thing. You know, Sadiq Khan voted for same sex marriage, you know, the bill that happened, you voted for it, like like all other MPs. Their argument wasn't that they've done something and Islamic in that sense that this was a bill that was gonna pass anyway. But one of the things people outside of us did, is they bought in a clause in that legislation where it gave exemption to religious institutions, from holdings in this kind of relationship. Okay, oh, sorry, conducting this kind of marriage. So like a Masjid, or synagogue, or church, or a temple can say, on

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religious grounds, we don't have to provide the service, everyone else has to provide the service. So that's the that's the negotiation date. To to kind of get that into the bill. Now, the people that were pushing the bill, they didn't have to, before eight MPs at that time was only eight Muslim MPs, right. For a MPs they knew they were.

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They were. So this is actually a positive feedback, regardless of what my position or anyone else position on the actual legislation is now shisler mangani campaign against that legislation. So this is where

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I don't want to make it just about, you know what it is you're talking about. And that's why I said Be specific here. So the point that they actually make the point, the point is, can we trust this person?

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Now, that's one of many points. Yeah, so my point is, why should somebody come defense?

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And yours is gonna be

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a Muslim. And that's what I said.

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But that's not really the argument. The argument is, he did this and he worked for safe marriage. And he did a whole host of things. And they're saying, such for example, His attitude towards boycott, divestment, and sanctions, PDS in Israel and so forth. What so that the impression so what do you say about that? So this is the this is the problem. Yeah. So the, I think, you know, it's like the new job now. I'll give you a week. And you know, and I say this to brothers and sisters, and you know, we do this one of my pet hates is I don't like the Daily Mail. And a lot of people don't like the Daily Mail. But you know, what amazes me because the Daily Mail has a habit of

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stretching the truth. That is basically a lie and smear. But you know, what happens? So many Muslims share the Daily Mail when they see a good story that they Okay, as if like, now all of a sudden the papers want the truth, okay. And we allow these media outlets to dictate this conversation. And this is this is this is my problem.

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On this, if I if I may, I mean, it's

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I think

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It's quite important that you see once again, once again, we're approaching this process from a totally purity, puritanical perspective, ideal white, black and white, you know, good and bad. It's not like that. It's not like that. Let's make it absolutely clear. There are no perfect candidates. Absolutely. There are absolutely no perfect candidates. There are no candidates in my mind, even that actually fulfill the kind of image I would like for London for Mayor of London, I'll be honest, none of them actually satisfying what I would like, you know, as a mayor of this great city. However, this is the kind of choice that we have. I would suggest even you know, let's let me let me

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play the role that you tried to play just a few minutes ago, shake them. Zac Goldsmith is a good guy. I know, Zac Goldsmith fairly well. And I am quite surprised by the rhetoric that has come out of his camp and his campaign. Yeah, I would like to think I would like to them because I haven't spoken to Zack for you know, for ages. But I would like to think that it's simply because his campaign team think that this is what's going to get them the votes. And to be honest, afterwards, realize how how tarnished he became as a result of his campaign team, because to be honest, I don't know him to be like this. I I'm quite surprised if these words are uttered by himself. And the same

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is true of Sadiq Khan, as I know, to be honest with you from this perspective.

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We are getting into much politics now. I think Sadiq Khan, from this perspective was better because Sadiq Khan did not, first of all, did not polarize it that much. But the 2d polarized, the whole discussion correctly came, it became racial or religious, you can listen and vote. Sadiq Khan didn't do this, which means that he's more competent from this perspective, at least. The other thing is, to be honest with you defending a person you don't you don't run your campaign, just defending the person or make it an issue. That's why, you know, the Prime Minister, he made the fatal mistake of big mistake. I don't know who's advising.

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Yeah, when he's in the parliament, the Parliament of Great Britain. Yeah, he's talking about he personalized it exactly. You mentioned the name. So but Sadiq Khan, to be honest with you. Whether we agree or we disagree with him, he became bigger. And he showed that he is really a person for all, and he's ahead in the polls. I mean, I mean to be to be on that's why

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he's not that low in faith. And after you write in describing what David Cameron did as a fatal blow, I believe to Zach's campaign, because afterwards, immediately afterwards, main conservative commentators such as Peter Oborne, in fact, even even Baroness a divorcee came out, you know, suggesting that listen, David, Peter wants it clearly. any decent conservatives should now not vote for that goes with in fact naming

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yourself actually let the article saying for the first time, I'm gonna vote for a labor. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So that's, that's the impact. But you know, just going back on that point, because I didn't want to, I didn't lose the thread. The reason I made mentioned, the map is about the hedgehog story, and how it was twisted, and proposed to express and, and this is what we've got to understand in terms of how the media present thinks was, you know, we're being like, you know, the media 80% of the media is controlled by five companies and individuals in this country. unfortunate. So what we're doing is we've been, we've been controlled by this, and we need to get come out of that, you

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know, vicious cycle and dictate the discussion ourselves. You know, I think social media has provided an opportunity to actually push back on the mainstream media. Yeah, but unfortunately, we still fall into the same trap. We, we complain when, you know, one of the newspapers, you know, smears me, like, you know, and then I have a lot of brothers who say, ya know, some lies, but then when you smear someone that we don't like,

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we have we have to change. And this is the long term thing, you know, that's what I mean by political maturity. Now, you'll see many in the other communities across whether it's ethnic communities, religious communities, or business communities or environmental communities. You see that mature in their politics in this Yeah, I mean, it's in the in the true kind of severe and Islam fluency, tradition. And so I want to inject some some thick walls into this and interweave the Islamic

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aspect of this because we've heard for example,

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Sonic Han.

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You know, he voted for things, you know, like the same sex marriage bill and so forth. Things which, obviously on a sonic perspective in isolation, if you take this and abstract that, you know, do you agree with XYZ? If no one would disagree that this is, you know, this is something an Islamic, but put into this context put into politics put into, you know, he did this, but there was somebody, you know, he did something wrong, but there was a bit of benefit in that, that kind of stuff. Where does this? Where does what does Islam actually say about this? What does God say about this? You know, you don't have a reputation for you know, pandering to the west, far from it. Yeah. So what, what

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does it say about this? because inevitably, you're going to get dirty in this game. Yeah, you're going to have to do something against, you know, an abstract against your principles. So yeah, I'll come to this point. But I would like to mention, maybe a point that might be considered criteria for voting the mayoral election, which is, you know, about Zack.

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Everyone said that he's a nice guy. And everyone was surprised that he put these comments again.

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Again, it's not that hard because of that amount of money. But this raises a very important concern that does he run?

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Yeah. Is he among a strong policy, his own man? Is he his own man was going to say, Does he have on himself by himself? Is he his own man? Because this raise social complaint, which means which brings up the point again, that see it will be all in the hands of one party? Yes, yes. We have politics in this country. I think that's important to understand. The politics of this country is dictated by parties. No, no.

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No, no, no. For mayoral election. We are not voting for a party. No, we are. Okay. It will not shift we are. So for example, and this is very important to understand the manifesto for Zac Goldsmith is a conservative Manifesto. manifesto for Sadiq Khan is a labor Manifesto. And the assembly election that we do, this is where the assembly that we do, which is like,

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we're not we're not going to vote for an individual, we're going to vote for a party, yes, by election, you know, for for mayoral election, because everyone is putting his candidate forward because it is historically or for whatever reason, people become attached to the individual rather than to the party. Yeah. So it's also it is possible. So the only independent that's one is Ken Livingstone, when he was kicked out a Labour Party, I guess the truth, but but they might get kicked out as well.

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But that's why Zach, personality was the center of the focus on it was the center of the fourth year. Yeah. So it is true that it is a party based elections are the personality here and mayoral elections is crucial. And that brings the question again, yeah, and it may be it is something that we need to consider. I think what you're watching, yes, that competent person? Is he his own sound, whatever he says, does that represent em?

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You know, you know, shfm, what you're speaking about is an incredibly important subject to be debated across society as a whole. Because unfortunately, Time after time after time, and now we're seeing it. I mean, now we're busy with our elections, but let you know what we're also watching what's happening in America. Yeah. Unfortunately, rather than this, let's let's use a term, this great show of democracy. Yeah. You know, when people debate ideas and policies and strategies and patterns and futures in the search, we're talking about people. Yeah. Which will help people how they look how they dress, what they said, what they you know, how they slept, what what they

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mentioned, and that is to the detriment of everyone who's who's making us talk about the past. Exactly, exactly. So notice, who is putting these?

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I, I think this this needs to be this needs to be a society, a pan society campaign to actually bring the media to task over this. How is it that they are allowed to bring the whole discussion about such a crucial issue for millions of people in this country, to the mere fact that someone looks this way or dresses this way or this way?

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You can't separate you can't separate the person? Of course, of course. Absolutely. But it's one of the problems. It's absolutely one of the poles in terms of having his own

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autonomy. Yes, somebody wants to vote for him as the mayor. He wants to start he wants to stop and use the same thing in this

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I'm sorry, cut you off is the same thing in Islamic organization truth. You may you may elect someone like Islam 21 see me before he has an Amir or someone, but he or she also will have a Shura. And yes, as an as a leader, I can do whatever I want. But maybe what happens if I don't actually take counsel and actually bring other people on board? But I think so.

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Is he a leader? Or is he just not the point chef made? Is, is he his own man? Yeah. I think in terms of what you the only way you will answer that question is on their past. And if you look at the two candidates, one has vast experience in holding high government positions. Yeah. cabinet positions, and dealing with actually major policy things which run as

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well, sidecar. Yeah. And Zac Goldsmith is fairly new, and really doesn't have any policy. And if you I don't know if you saw the London, it's not the London UK citizens hustings? I didn't know. Okay, so

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that's the biggest hustings. All of this. And and if you look at the other one a few a couple of months ago? A couple of months. Five days? No, no, I didn't see I didn't say so is where policies were actually discussed. So you can see who who's with Yeah, but I think it's wrong for us to think for a moment. For a moment that you know, any a one person can do whatever they can I can I can I turn the question, can I make the shape the questions? I'll tell you what's your take them if I can, if I can shape the question differently.

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The question that's, you know, if I was to ask that question, I would be worried about this. Will the next mayor of London whether he be from the labour Tories Lib Dems respect? Or will they themselves as the mayor, whom I named who I'm who I put my cross against the names? Will they be running the show? Or will their party be running the show? Now, I will have to say, despite the fact that I supported Ken Livingston, for instance, in the past, and I supported him in his campaign against Boris Johnson.

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But I have to say that Boris Johnson was, to a degree his own man, he was his own man, I could, I couldn't really say that the conservatives actually ran city hall to the credit of Boris Johnson, despite my my differences with him and his party. That is what I would like to think of anyone who wins the mayoral elections, whether it be Zach, whether it be saw that will they be their own people, so that basically, it's not whoever sitting in Downing Street or the opposition is actually running, running. But listen, again, we're not talking about a perfect situation, of course, and they will be that they will be that that kind of interference.

00:32:49--> 00:33:03

For the thing that people are asking is, you know, because you don't have we have far from the perfect situation is like voting for, you know, to, you know, really bad candidate for MIT for many people's perspective.

00:33:04--> 00:33:05

Personality politics,

00:33:07--> 00:33:07

perhaps

00:33:09--> 00:33:20

the history in which people are arguing islamically is a lot better, some arguing just to keep your hands clean, and maybe vote for a third. Yeah. See, see.

00:33:22--> 00:33:42

You mentioned this point, let us lose a very good question. Yeah. Let us merge it with the discussion about politics in general. See, there are, by the way, I'm going to Turkey in a few weeks. And some people I'm going to give some lectures here. A brother told me about some people whom I'm going to lecture with they told me that

00:33:43--> 00:33:45

Be careful if you love Antoine de hater.

00:33:48--> 00:34:35

I said why? Which is this is a perfect example to to that we learn from they said because octagon did not bring Sharia octagon did this and that octagon did not stand firmly for against the aggression in Syria, or the governor so they hate him. So please, in your seminar, don't mention of the gods don't praise Him. See, for those people, those people are living in a bubble. They are not living in the real world. Yeah, that's why Sharia there are certain things that are puritanical. But there are so many things that are fluid. Yeah, fluid in Chile, especially in the practice of

00:34:36--> 00:34:59

in the in the practice of feeding, and many people do not need our brothers and sisters. And many Muslims do not differentiate between the theory and the practice of the theory. And that's why they fall into major mistakes. I'll give you a simple example. Simple example might provoke any another discussion, but you know, ah, you know

00:35:00--> 00:35:17

We have from an Islamic perspective that we have certain boundaries when men and women are interacting. Now, people call this free mixing, many people call say, well free mixing is okay.

00:35:19--> 00:35:56

But, you know, is it allowed to go to universities because it is free mixing? Is it allowed to go to a party, wedding party of my relatives? Because it is free mixing? And my answer is see that is the theory. Now, if you want to put it into practice, you cannot say that this is exactly free mixing. This is not free mixing there is a fluidity between both and that is applicable on politics and politics. There is no clear black and white. Yes, there is no perfect man. She told me after the time of Hamada

00:35:58--> 00:36:00

Yep, yeah, what came like

00:36:01--> 00:36:41

are we going to say that all are bad? So can we just get on so however she did cetera, all the Apache Cordova someone told me this Apache is just one of like one of the leaders. I say this stuff for a while. These people are like one of the Muslim leaders now. He said, Yeah, what's the difference? Because of this black and white, you're intelligent. If he's not a lot of Aziz, then I should keep away from that. They are all bad luck. It is not Can I can I just can I just make it from even if in tanea Rahim Allah tala said the wise the wisdom is not to know what is

00:36:42--> 00:36:58

what is bad, and what is evil. He said, No, no, no, the wisdom sorry, what is bad, what is good? He said the wisdom is to know to be able to identify what is the worst of two Barfi? Two bad things? Yes. And what is the best of two good things? This is the wisdom This is

00:36:59--> 00:37:26

a Can I just in response to the question, because I do think that the question is central? It's the question that basically I'm asked about every single time I speak about, but it's good engagement. And that is well, you know what, it's just too complicated. I don't I don't want to risk it. You know, I might vote for someone and then he brings in, you know, certain policies and I'll feel like a liable before a law and therefore I'd love to stay away. The fact is, that even if you choose to stay away, you're taking part.

00:37:28--> 00:38:10

Because you're reframing your rap statement from from will favor one against the other. It plays a part you cannot within the system that we have, you could not say that by me sitting at home and doing absolutely nothing, that you're not involved. You are involved you are and that's a very important point. I don't want to rush this. But I just like to inform the audience at home that we're taking a short five minute break. And I really want to encourage this discussions. I don't want to kind of rush it. So we'll take a break. Please join us after a short five minute break. And in the meantime, please do remember to tweet hashtag Muslim vote and our Islamic currency Twitter

00:38:10--> 00:38:19

handle is at Islam. 20 Oh MC. So on behalf of the panels that panelists are myself, Zack ma Farah, and see you shortly after a few minutes of my favorite song on it.

00:42:47--> 00:43:02

AsSalamu Alaikum and welcome back to this panel discussion with your host, Simon bud and our esteemed guests. We left before the break on a very, very important question a very important topic. And that was

00:43:06--> 00:43:13

if there are two people, two main candidates, and you don't see a big difference between them?

00:43:14--> 00:43:33

Is it a good idea just to say, Well, I'm going to keep my hands clean, and either not vote or vote for a third person who maybe is a long way down the list because this is a question I have actually been put to read and see some people finding merit in it.

00:43:37--> 00:43:38

Okay, I think

00:43:40--> 00:43:45

I answered this question already. Because we can't escape participation.

00:43:47--> 00:43:48

And I'll give you an

00:43:50--> 00:43:52

answer already given but let me give you an example.

00:43:53--> 00:44:00

For those of us who know Bernie has got a very big Muslim idea, but when he was one of the first councils to actually get a

00:44:01--> 00:44:02

counselor got

00:44:03--> 00:44:46

four votes. Yeah. Okay. So, you know, imagine the, the damage this one counselor can cause, you know, being on the council, the access to information, the right to actually veto things and cause issues and problems and lots of Muslims. It has a very high Muslim population or because for Muslims Maybe, yeah, didn't bother to say you mentioned this technical issue maybe clarifies the issue to to the audience. Dr. Ron has mentioned that a very important principle that whether you are actively participating or you are not actively participating, participating,

00:44:47--> 00:44:51

how does that imagine that there are 10 people in this room we want to

00:44:52--> 00:45:00

vote for a or b. For brothers or for members voted for a city people

00:45:00--> 00:45:51

voted for be. Yeah. So now we have three more people who said we don't want to get our hands dirty in this dirty politics. So a now who got four votes, He will say to them, yes, politics is dirty is haram Don't get involved. Why? Because if they keep quiet, he will win. Yes, I agree. So actually, they voted for him correct. And directly correct. So we need to tell those people that 50 No, no, no, no, not not. Don't waste it. No, no, no, no. Even it is to the other levels. Don't give it to the wrong one, just by being naive. Yeah. And you don't know how the game was? Yeah. But this is all predicated on the presumption that there's a difference between a and b, there is a difference?

00:45:51--> 00:45:52

Yeah, of course.

00:45:53--> 00:46:24

In terms of real, you know, politics, I think, listen, I think that there are three levels, three main levels that we need to look at, first of all, the person. And I think we've spoken a lot about that a second, that the the manifesto of each, you know, the pledges of each, and the third is the party that each represents. And I think those three levels need to be considered when making you know, that particular vote. I mean, we published a few days ago, an article from the CEO of mint.

00:46:25--> 00:46:53

And in the article was linked, the details have been published on the upcoming elections. Can you just give the viewers at home a brief summary of what you believe, are the differences in policy of the different candidates? I think, because I just mentioned three levels. And the fourth level, I think, the most important level is what you do by yourself. And this goes back to my original statement about the tail wagging the dog.

00:46:54--> 00:47:34

We need to do politics back to the people, meaning it should be people dictated, it should be interest group dictated it should be in groups that have particular issues dictated. So what do I mean by that app? The point of our manifesto is to look at what are the major issues affecting the Muslim community? Okay, whether it's the London mayoral election, or whether it's the Police and Crime Commissioner election, which is looking at mainly just policing, whatever the difference are, or the general election. So we've done that. And also, we've looked at it on like what Anna said, right at the beginning, which is that we got to look at this holistically. This is our country, this

00:47:34--> 00:48:18

is our town, this is our city, whatever good we bring in is going to benefit. Okay, so the key points our manifesto looks at are the same kind of issues that deal with. So why is housing such an important thing for us? We put that in our Manifesto, because we know, Muslim communities suffers maybe acutely more than other communities in this area. Yeah. employment. Why have you put that in the manifesto? Yeah. Why is that? So? Because we have such a young population. We have so many graduates coming out of university, nothing else finding it very difficult to get a job? Yep. Okay. This is an important thing. Why is crime and security very important in our Manifesto, because the

00:48:18--> 00:48:59

Islamophobia that is on the rise, we will know, but the lack of how is being prosecuted is problematic, but also importantly, the counterterrorism legislation that is out there in particular province, we know what the issues prevent is calling specifically, the channel referrals that happened and prevent is still, you know, hidden. Yeah. So we're looking for transparency, because remember, policing is by consent in this country, okay. Meaning the police offers us a service. Yeah, we should, shouldn't we be the ones to say what kind of service is out there. So these all of these things are important. But also these things are important to the wider community as well, to

00:48:59--> 00:49:45

have a police offering a service that is transparent is important. Schedule seven affects Muslims a lot, but it's also affecting non Muslims. Yeah, stop and search affects BMV and Muslims a lot, but also affects my Muslim communities as well. So kind of the key points we put in our manifesto is do have a Muslim angle to it. But also we've made sure is brought on board enough to be inclusive of London communities. If I may add to this, to see that there is also another important point, which is I was looking at the what is the leaflets that were distributed just a few days ago about the manifesto. I went to the website just to check. See what the result causada? Yeah, both of them.

00:49:46--> 00:49:53

More or less talk about the same thing. Yeah, they whatever the issues, yes. Both of them spoke about housing,

00:49:56--> 00:49:59

safety, policing, etc. Both of them spoke about

00:50:01--> 00:50:02

extremism as well,

00:50:04--> 00:50:05

as, as far as I remember.

00:50:07--> 00:50:10

Now, now there is an issue who is able to deliver?

00:50:11--> 00:51:00

Yeah, that should be also in our manuals, who is able to deliver, and that in order to know who is able to deliver, we need to look at the history of the person, is he competent enough to deliver or he just, he is a politician, he just say something. And then at the end of the day, either he doesn't deliver because he's unable or he was just speaking, in order to get the votes. So that is a very important. And from that, from that point, maybe maybe, and from this particular platform, we can start the discussion for the next four years. And that is that we monitor the performance of whoever comes in and becomes Mayor of London. And we hold them responsible and accountable against

00:51:00--> 00:51:40

the pledges that they made throughout the campaigning period. So I think that when we do that, then we feel more engaged. And we feel that kind of ownership of the decision that we made the decision that the city made, and the future of that particular city. So it's, I think, then we start that particular culture of engagement so that it doesn't become a question any class we stopped talking about. Yeah, have you vote Have you registered to vote or have you not? It's it's a foregone conclusion. It's how we better and how we develop and how we improve that engagement. I want to also mention one important point because the way I see the Muslim community Mashallah is evolving, the

00:51:40--> 00:51:47

young, our young brothers. Well, I The way I see them, they are

00:51:48--> 00:51:52

more competent than many other people. Yeah. If you go to

00:51:54--> 00:52:45

even in schools, yeah. Even in schools, those who have English language as their mother tongue, or those who have, in fact, dual language. Yes. Many of them indeed, if they don't face cultural problems at home, or major economical problems at home, normally, they perform better. And I don't want to praise Saudi or another friend of mine. He's not. I don't know how maybe I have a problem with him. This is something else but it's really interesting. It is like it is a model for many Muslims that look he can his father is was a bus driver. And then he wanted he, he went to the school, he went to low. So he progressed. It gives me an indication, although I have a problem with

00:52:45--> 00:53:14

him. Yes. Okay. But it's a good story. But it's a good story. It's a good story. Yes, this person can be a competent person. And it is inspiring for many Muslim Brothers as well, that don't think that we are a very bad community. Our individuals are really, we are always failing. And you know what the media is focusing on that. Look, in terms of education. We are underachieving. In terms of this we are underachieving in terms of even employment I mentioned to

00:53:15--> 00:53:21

journalists, I said yeah, employment because the minute they find the name of Mahatma Gandhi, of course.

00:53:22--> 00:53:56

You know, there is one hidden truth for all of this because I see the Muslim community very positively. Yeah. Mashallah. On the live and the chance to travel across the country and see an I agree with you totally. You know, there is this impression we're poor with this model, this kind of stuff. Being in that situation. You know, the biggest community that gives to charity God, yeah, atheists as well as other religions. Islam is, by far yeah, by far. Yeah. So, you know, we're not that bad. And what we have, we don't have to put it into good.

00:53:57--> 00:54:07

That's naturally there. And I can see maybe need Yeah, yeah. and promote. Exactly our biggest All I see is as impediments to natural progress, as you mentioned,

00:54:08--> 00:54:19

some misunderstanding, which is, which is a little bit which I can say, in a nutshell, for some people, you know, what they've been doing all their lives, they've been watering a banana tree, expecting mangoes to

00:54:20--> 00:54:46

this is this is a tiny problem. But the bigger problem is, we've not taken we've not mainstreamed this participation into our community. You know, it's still a little bit of a taboo subject. And I think the, like you said, you know, the more imams the more, you know, discussions happen in mustard, you know, that. There's nothing wrong with a mustard pushing for voter registration. It's not a political thing. Absolutely.

00:54:49--> 00:54:59

Yeah, many people lost some more, I actually think is that they're breaking. Exactly. They think they're breaking church commission regulation. So you know, these are the things that we need to overcome and

00:55:00--> 00:55:35

Final thing I think is really important to understand is we need to have a good political education. Yes. And I think, you know, because sometimes people think politics is just, you know, being an MPP. And accounts. Yeah, all of this comes out. No, this is important. Yeah. But also politics is also lobbying. Like what you just said, after someone becomes a politician, who's following up with the pledges that they said they were gonna correct. You know, is it happening, who's gonna hold them to account all of these things, lobbying behind the scenes, all of this is very young. But the most important thing is, we have to know how the system works. And, you know, unfortunately, there's many

00:55:35--> 00:56:01

politicians, I you know, they've come to our courses, many politicians who don't know how the political system works, how Parliament works, how councils. And this is very, very important. You have to have that one as well. We just got a few questions from social media about, you know, the difference. Is there actually any difference between Saudi farms that goes, for example, they citing for example, labor were the ones who introduced prevent? Yeah.

00:56:03--> 00:56:04

Yeah, in terms of

00:56:05--> 00:56:21

what this also is, you mentioned things like sheduled, seven, and so forth, are really important things. But is there any evidence that one or the other candidate will actually have any change? any impact on that? Okay, so in terms of

00:56:23--> 00:56:31

is there a difference between the two candidates, I think the shacks also mentioned it, is if you go on their website, you can see where they stand. Okay. You know,

00:56:32--> 00:57:14

both websites, they've got their 10 key policies, if you so then you can see the immediate difference. I also, you know, just recall what I mentioned earlier, which is not just what the individuals are going to do, but where the parties themselves are ideologically. Now, in terms of our Manifesto, and key things. So for example, if the next mayor agrees, and this is also for the Police and Crime Commissioner, we will in their Constabulary review the use of schedule, okay, or review the use of stop research or that they will improve the training of police officers so that they can handle Islamophobia a little bit more sensitively than they are or that they will invest in

00:57:14--> 00:57:54

an officer actually going around where places of worship so there's reassurance so you know, the far right wing groups that turn up all of a sudden and invade mosques and things that you know, that they will, if a Police and Crime Commissioner is willing to do that, that, that makes them that elevates them already on top of what they've already said, in our own eyes, because that's something specific to us. So this is what needs to happen. And we're not asking those questions. What we're doing is we're talking amongst ourselves, you know, I'm not standing for election, men is not standing for election men. What we've done is objectively poor key issues that we've held hustings

00:57:54--> 00:58:32

in London, we've held hustings outside of London, in five or six cities. Yeah. And also in Wales, okay. And we've put all of these things to the candidates, the Sharla. In the next couple of days, we will publish a lot of those stuff, so that the community can make an informed decision. We're not going to say vote for this person or that person, we're going to say this is where they stand on issues, but you can't deny that there is a palpable kind of disempowerment and disillusionment service, you know, Yvette Cooper, for example, the shadow Home Secretary, and we would expect, you know, someone from the opposition learn from labour has traditionally been far less right wing than

00:58:32--> 00:58:32

the Tories.

00:58:33--> 00:58:38

She said, you know, Theresa May hasn't gone far enough, for example, in India.

00:58:39--> 00:59:14

But you're conflating and this is very important. Your the whole issue of security. Okay, it didn't happen just after 911. Yeah. Okay. Those of us that have been working in this area, we know, this issue was coming. And the focus on security was coming long before that. But after 911 What happened? There was a massive panic, that, you know, there is a problem here. Okay. And then these legislations cover the those of us who kind of in 2000, when the primary security acts actually came up, how many Muslims actually wrote and saw and challenged.

00:59:15--> 00:59:43

And he was a member of the Muslim Council of Britain, Sadiq Khan, he actually wrote against that bill, that legislation, but who was the government that brought in that legislation? Was the Labour government? So is that a contradiction? No. Is this a party of, you know, nearly half a million members, there's going to be a difference. You're going to have a party and when we see now how, you know, there's the the korbinites and the and the barons and having this this run

00:59:44--> 01:00:00

at all, there are certain things that considered to be the establishment or responsibility is not the party whether this party or that party came to power. There are certain things that the government that the country, the state or the establishment, I don't know.

01:00:00--> 01:00:10

has to do. They expected to do? Yes, they are expected to do. Well, final thoughts and we have, we're just wrapping up now. And I want to ask you a question.

01:00:11--> 01:00:17

You're more than welcome to answer or not answer. shfm. Who will you be voting for on Thursday?

01:00:19--> 01:00:22

Yeah, well, to be honest with you,

01:00:23--> 01:00:59

I have issues with with Sadiq Khan, okay. But I have more issues with the tourists and the other side that has put it like this. Okay. And let me emphasize on one point, again, please brothers and sisters, let us not be emotional, you know, let us see the world the whole world is based on interest. What is my interest? Even if I hate something? I will do it if my entry scores with that current photostock correct.

01:01:00--> 01:01:14

Exactly. As that same question to you. Well, we don't actually support any candidates. We've we've published a manifesto and what we will do is publish where the candidate standard that manifesto is for the community to decide with a

01:01:16--> 01:01:17

very diplomatic answer.

01:01:19--> 01:01:21

final final words I've already voted.

01:01:23--> 01:02:13

I've sent my my vote because I vote by postal ballots. But interestingly enough, this year, my my son has just turned 18 and we're having these discussions at home and it's extremely likely that my son will be making his own decision which will be totally different from the decision that I made. But But again, like share faith and said, let's think about what it is that we need, what it is that we want. And let's start from there. Like my head, well, views on home I hope you enjoyed the discussion. As much as I did. This has a discussion a big discussion on behalf of Seville and plum 21 C. want you all to join us. Next thing which will like as some as a new repeat, which is to the

01:02:13--> 01:02:25

summer bank holiday weekend, inshallah more information on that is at Family Retreat code UK, I would I invite you once again to visit the website, Islam twenty.com