Channel: Hacene Chebbani
hamdulillah in 111 Amadou Hornstein was the pharaoh for today, when I want to be a missionary and fusina we say at our Marina Maria de La Villa Villa, Villa villa. quietude will either hi Lola dudash Erica Mohammed Abu rasuluh Masada Mohammed, Mohammed kanessa little Abraham ellebra humane Academy de la verticality Mohammed Mohammed kovarik tala Ibrahim Ali Ibrahim in Naka, Hamid and mushy
Are you live in La quwata illa and two Muslim brothers and sisters who are in Hawaii tonight inshallah we'll be talking about
the nature of money in Islam. And from that subject, we will.
As a result of this discussion, we will talk in sha Allah about maybe what's happening in the Forex markets, the online currency trading. And also we'll talk a little bit about the new forms of digital money is there are some Muslims who are involved in this business. So we discuss the nature of this money, even though we don't really understand some technical issues related to this new digital money, but we will get an idea about what the Sharia law says about the nature of money at least. So, we'll inshallah, we'll talk about the basics tonight.
And money one is the most important element in any financial system.
The most important element in any financial system, the man in any in any economic system,
the more the, you know, excel in the management of money, the more the economy will be will be strong, and will be well established.
If the management of money is manipulated, is not done well. Then the economy will face some challenges and some difficulties and maybe some crisis.
And there is a difference between the status and the role of money in Islam and Islamic Finance and, and the conventional system. At the time for socialized sleep before the advent of Islam before Allah Subhana Allah sent His messenger salallahu alayhi wa sallam as a messenger to humanity, people used to use gold and silver as a currency.
And other time we used to use the, the golden dinar that was minted in in,
in the Roman Empire, and Byzantine and Durham that was made of silver used to be maintained in Persia.
And this dinner under him continued to be used during the time of personal loss, and during the whole affair, the period of the whole affair or Rashida and also why some allow it to sell him did not change money. He did not change the currency for hikmah for a great wisdom.
He did not say these are Romans dinars or Persian Durham's, let's have our own Islamic dinar
we got our Islamic dinar during the time of Abdul Malik of numeral one, the Khalifa as in Melaka, number one illuma we in the year 74 after the history of personalized cinema it has a story I've mentioned this story what happened at that time,
but during the time of frozen lost asylum, he kept using the Roman dinar. And the Persian did him even though some people saying nowadays, that myth and golden silver is our soon money and we have to go back to the sooner for some losses.
But when you pay attention to it, russula Sicilian did not introduce any changes in the monetary system at that time.
And as I said for a big hikma, because if Russell was SLM has changed the Roman dinar and the Persian dinar and adopted the new currency and what will happen automatically Muslims after also last lesson will think that this is a sooner money and if you use paper money or any form of money, then you feel guilty. You feel that you are doing something Hara law here living in Canada, we always feel that we are doing everything is haram in our financial affairs because we are not using golden silver. But this is not true.
The owner Rahmatullah Allah him man whom says Islam savior no Kamala has le have nourished and many scholars have studied the nature of money. They looked at the Sunnah of Rasulullah saw Salah has been
havior with this currency that was used at the time, we looked at
the idea that Omar will have got one time he wanted to make money out of the skin of camels.
And then he had the Matura with the Sahaba. For call Lula who Kala Sahaba, who is a Label Label means the cameras will perish.
So he changed his ID, he had a shortage of money. So he wanted to make money out of the skin of camels, which means that money could take any form. And that's why all this road Mr. Sheehan, stay with me, as I said, my claim, as early as most and some other scholars, we came to the conclusion that money is not sought for itself is not desire is never was never desired, for its own sake, which means it is only a tool.
It gets its value from the purchasing power that it has.
It's only a tool like nothing, if you have a golden dinar, you are not going to eat it if you are hungry.
You cannot wear it as a clothes if you are if you feel cold, it's not a jacket. It's not something that you can you can consume it
it is a tool, you go to the market, or to the store to buy something with it.
So that is the conclusion of our Rama, Rama to lie on him after the study.
This the nature of money in Islam, and they said money has to be a medium or accepted medium of exchange has to be a unit of account and a store of value. So any type of type of money has to have these three qualities and a timer for supplies I sell them the golden the Roman dinar and the Persian dyrham were widely accepted in the Arabian Peninsula and other parts of the world as a medium of exchange. And they were used as a unit of account. And they were a good store of value at the time gold has an intrinsic value, silver has intrinsic value. They are good store of value.
And as I said Rasulullah saw Cilacap the same currency did not change it the whole affair, he did not change it.
He kept using the same currency until we came to Abdul Malik of numeral one Rahim Allah He was an oma yet Calif. What happened during his time, of course, the Islamic philosopher and the Roman Empire they had some trading exchange, they used to do trade and exchange things and pay for, you know, send payments and buy things from each other.
So the Romans were buying some scrolls made of paper from Egypt. And the Egyptian cops used to control that industry at that time. So they used to have a logo placed on the scrolls of paper that says Jesus peace be upon him. And he Sally seller is the Son of God. Why? Because the Egyptian cops were Christians at the time. And they used to control this industry in Egypt. So they used to have this logo on these scrolls of paper that were exposed to the Roman Empire. So I will halifa Abdul Malik of number one.
This is something that was brought to his attention. He decided to remove this logo, and he told them to place replace it with the first phrase of Sora teleclass, who Allahu Ahad say He is Allah, the One and the Roman emperor was very upset. He was very angry, he did not like it. He thought that this is an insult, because this is what he believes or used to believe that Jesus is the Son of God. But this is the main tenant of al Qaeda within the Christianity at the time and maybe nowadays within the Catholic Church.
So he threatened the Muslim Calif that he will print an insult against Russian allies as well in the newly minted dinars.
Another time, of course, the Muslim hurry for us thinking used to think actually he thought about he had the plan to change the currency before but that was something that motivated him at that time. That made him make a final decision. And he made this final decision and he created an official mint. And Mint is a facility industrial visit facility where money is manufactured. So we made the first mint in Damascus and the second one was established in Egypt.
And from that time, you're 74 between 74 and 76. In the Islamic calendar, the Islamic dinar was minted and it was widely used in the Islamic field.
And of course, the Ottomans and the other whole effect used other dinars and other Durham's, but from that time, currency was minted within the Islamic
Islamic societies and Islamic countries.
Gold and Silver continue to be used
to be used within, you know, different societies and different cultures, different countries. Until 1971
when the American President Nixon, Richard Nixon, announced or he, you know, he, he made a decision
you know, to create a disconnection between make a disconnection between the American dollar and gold at the time, one ounce of gold, the value of one one ounce of gold was $35. And governments and central banks for other countries, they have the right, if they have the American dollar, American money, they had the right at that time to come to the American banks and asked for the equivalent amount of gold for their money before 1971. In August 1971, because of the financial crisis that took place in the American society, the President decided to, you know, to create make this disconnection between gold and and money and paper money became a fiat money,
fiat money that has no intrinsic value. It's only backed by the government,
backed by the power of the government, and all the currencies in the world became floating currencies, which means their value is subject to the market forces and the supply and demand will allow to Allah. But our roadmap discussed and studied contemporary scholars earlier and masiero. We discuss the nature of this paper money are we going to accept it or not? And this discussion took place within the you know, the meshmatic Circle Islami, a tabular model of the Muslim autometer Islamic Islamic Academy that is affiliated with all IC Organization of Islamic countries. Its headquarter is in Jeddah, and the other measurement advocate Islamic which is a Islamic council that
is affiliated with the Muslim World League, Arabica clallam Islamic they have their headquarter in Mk. And also this method was discussed by the owner of the Supreme Court of Pakistan. All these and by the way, these three two councils. They are the highest authority of faith and fatwa in the Islamic world. And measurement and
measurement ethical Islam if you should
literally move on to more Islamic world measurement advocate Islamic tabea mirabito. Islamic why, because they are they have international their members and not from one country like Saudi Arabia or Pakistan or Egypt. They are from all Muslim countries. They come together and they meet every three months every four, four months and they discuss many crucial matters that are related to our daily life as Muslims. So 50 years or 60 years ago, they discuss the matter of the paper currency. Are we going to accept it or not? And based on the history of money in Islam, what was the last SLM did with the currency and the idea of HIPAA because when he decided to make a mess and money out for
skin of camels, no one told him No, you cannot do that. Because money can only be gold and silver.
No zahavi stood up and told him No, I mean you cannot do that, which is Barcelona ism, this is a silent consensus is matsukaze Yanni it could be an Asian man, one of the issues that are accepted, in fact, anyway, Anima Malik made the statement he said I would apply the rules of Riba to any type of money regardless of its nature, whether it's made of wood or paper or or gold and silver anything, if it is widely accepted as a medium of exchange in the society, then I would apply the rules of rebar to this money. This is the statement of Imam Malik Rahmatullahi alley.
Now, the stated this rumor that this paper money is a legal tender, a legal tender and having the full attributes of attributes of a medium of exchange medium of exchange, and all the Sharia laws that apply to any money apply to these paper money, this new form of money.
That was the conclusion of this scholars base as I said on the system
sessions are the studies of the other classical scholars are loyal to Allah Allah. Now we come to the sale of surf, because this is important, something important. We deal with it all the time when we travel, we want to change money and send it overseas. Some people are making money online, they are trading money in the Forex markets. And as I told you, there are Muslims who are trading even bitcoins, the new digital money, new forms of money. Is this trading Hello, no not then we'll talk about it. Now we need to know that all Muslim jurists said that, you know surf is Helen is a halal transaction is a permissible transaction with some specific rules and conditions.
The Sharia is very strict about the rules of surf surfing when you exchanging money with money, whether you exchange gold with silver, silver with silver, gold with gold, or American money with Canadian money or any other currency. If you are exchanging money, then you have to observe some rules that were mentioned by Rasulullah sallallahu alayhi wa sallam in many ahaadeeth and of course, you know, there are some types of Riba. Some rules of Riba that apply to this kind of exchange that are not mentioned in the Quran, the Quran, one when the Quran talks about Riba the Quran talks about mentioned the Riba that took place during the time of Shia helia, which is called the Riba Do you
prefer do when someone gets a loan or he ended up with a debt obligation after making a credit sale and then he has to pay money? And usually if they are late, if they are late in paying their or the default in their payment, then the merchant or the other party would increase the payment. So that was Riba Elijah helium. And it was very it was widespread, very prevalent.
It was widely practiced, especially within the Jewish communities in the Arabian Peninsula. At that time, that is Reba Do you or Reba Elijah Haley. The other type of Riba is the rebel boo, and it came into sooner. So Tsubasa mentioned this in the ahaadeeth. Many a hadith that are found in Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim and he mentioned the exchange of money with the exchange of other four types of food dates and barley and wheat and salt. And mention them in some famous Hadith one of them is gold for gold, silver, for silver, wheat for wheat and barley for barley dates for date salt for salt, should we exchange like for like equal for equal hand to hand, hand to hand means
immediate delivery, that you when you buy currency, or gold or silver, you have to you know, take possession in the same within the same trading session, you cannot leave the modulus of the app at the trading session without taking possession of the counter value. If you are giving American dollars or receiving Canadian, you have to receive your money in your hand. Now this is called physical possession, public and happy, but we have nowadays in the modern you know financial system, something called a cup of alchemy, constructive possession, and the owner may have made some rulings regarding this kind of covered if you know these rulings your life It will they will make your life
these rules will make your life easy when you start when you when you deal with Western Union or banks or exchanging money in general. But let's focus now on this. This Hadith that they mentioned is found inside Muslim and found some other sources of Hadith is a famous Hadith but also let's assume said that there will be there will further be a Sherry Lucia
terminal with terminal
so what would we say here then be it this is a famous Hadith There is no doubt about it. It's founded Bihari and Muslim and many sources and Rafa has made this hadith in different forms, in different came in different versions, different forms. That means this Hadees was mentioned many times of solar system we're very strict about these conditions. We know people nowadays we exchange money here, and then they receive
the receive Canadian money from a brother and we tell him your father or your uncle will receive the other currency in Pakistan or Algeria or Somalia with a different currency after two days or one week or three days. His father or his brother will receive the other currency This is halal or haram.
Could this be permissible in Sharia is not permissible? Because the possession has to take place within the same trading session. Does it have a solution? It has a solution. We can do it in a Sharia compliant way. We can do it through the Sharia and everything could be
It's easy to do to solve this problem, when you are dealing with a brother here, pick up the phone and talk to your father at the same time, this Muslim is much less happy is accepted in Sharia. It is a trading session that is taking place. Now, talk to your brother or your father in Somalia, tell him give
give his his father or his brother, because there is another person who is acting as an agent of the other brother who is giving you the Canadian. He's giving you the Canadian now. And you are giving him Somali national currency tell him on the phone, when he gives you a money.
Tell your your father to give his brother or his agent, His representative, the other money on the same machine is the same trading session and the problem is solved. We just have to be aware of these rules. And then you do your transactions in a halal way. So the first rule is immediate delivery of any exchange currency. It has to be on the spot. The second
second condition or the second rule, they have to be exchanged like for like, if they are from the same genus like you are exchanging Canadian with Canadian 100 with 100. Why would you do that? Could you tell me?
Why would you exchange 100? Canadian with another 100 Canadian dollars the same currency?
It has to be a they have to be at par value?
Why would you do that? Can you think of a situation where you need to exchange 100 with $100?
yeah, you're looking for change, for example, you want to buy a train ticket or bus ticket when you don't have a change. So you exchanging $100 with 100 has to be at par value.
This is the rule when it comes to when you're dealing with money, or currency from the same genus. Now, let's talk a little bit about forex markets. forex markets they are there is no central place where people come together.
It's not an exchange where people come and they trade shares and bonds and no money is is a network is a global network of computers. And participants. The people who are buying and selling are connected through this network. So they could be buying money from someone in user land or Australia. And you could be here in Vancouver, you'd be buying from someone in US or Europe, any other country. It's a global network of computer and the sad it is the most liquid market nowadays. It is the most liquid market, which means when they say the most liquid market that there is a big amount huge amount of money that is traded, traded on a daily basis within this market in April in
April 2010. We said the average in that month because every three years base which is the Bank of International Settlements in whistle, Switzerland, the issue or reports about these kind of activities in general the activities of derivatives in the markets. And the issuer reports about these forex markets. So in 2010, I don't know what what was their reports about 2013 2010. The daily average daily turn over in one day, in the month of April 2010 was $4 trillion.
And that is the output of the whole country of Germany in one year.
The whole the output of the German economy in one year. It's a huge amount of money $4 trillion
traded in one day in the month of April in 2010 Alan mill and Allahu Alem Yanni what's going on with this market nowadays,
they have some tools now in these markets in this online currency markets,
all currencies in in these markets, they come in pairs. So they always when they give you the prices, they give you within the price of US market US dollar connected with the price of euro for example, or Japanese yen, or Canadian dollar.
All the time, there are two, you know currencies that are connected and the price they give you the price of two currencies. And the US dollar is always a major part of all the major currencies that are traded in the markets. And they have there are three types of markets spot, forward and future. So based on the condition of immediate possession
Immediate possession within the same trading session, what do you think about forward and future markets? Are they helpful or not?
They are excluded, they are not helpful. Because the future means or a forward means that you're going to receive the other, the counter value within three months, within four months. So islamically, they are not accepted because Allah Sallam said he hadn't been hand to hand. But now let's come to spot market, the spot market here in all over the world, in every country, it is the market for settlement of foreign exchange or foreign currencies within two days,
within two days, and what happened when you have,
you know, American dollar, and you are buying Japanese, for example, in this markets, most of the people, they trade through margin accounts, margin accounts, which means that they go to a broker, and they open an account with him. And he made it, they make a deposit in this account, let's say 1000, just to get an idea about these activities now. And he will give you one person to one for $1, he gives you $100, he doesn't give it to you in your hand, you don't get it in your hand, it's all digital numbers, you're dealing with numbers, because you are trading through his platform.
So and they are standard lots, our method and 100,000. So we are using 1000 from your pocket, which is physical money, you put it with him in the account, and he has given you $99,000 to trade. But this 99,000, you don't put it in make it to put it in your pocket, you just trade with it through his platform. It is kind of a loan, and he will charge you a commission fee. It's called custody services. He's giving you a service, then there is a transaction between you and him. And it is a say it is kind of a sale right? between you and him because he is selling to you some services is allowing you to to trade through his platform. So he's charging you some fees. So this is one
transaction, the other transaction beside it is a loan. He's giving you a loan, yes, you don't get it in your hand, but he's giving you access to this money, because without access to his money, you are not going to make money, the movement in this market are very small points, decimal points. So you have to have a huge amount of money to make like $200 or $500 in one in one transaction.
So they will do that. And then there also lies so we go back to the sooner for some licensing, we find that there are some problems with this transaction. One brother asked me, he said, people are asking how can we apply the rules of Sharia?
The rules of Sharia, I found that the time for some last SLM to the modern financial
operations, right, they are very complicated, very complex. I told the brother is very easy. We just have to understand the concept. If you understand the concept, Ceri, a concept you need two types of knowledge here. You need to understand the Sharia rules, the philosophy of Sharia, when it comes to making business, what are the rules that are found in the Quran and the sooner you understand them very well. Then you come to this new financial, you know system and then you try to understand what's going on which is difficult sometimes, some of the operations some of the transactions are very complex, very complicated, but if you put some efforts you will be able to understand and then
you apply those rules whose concept, once you understand the concept, it will be easy for you as a Muslim to say this is Helen and I can do it I can make money through it. And this is haram I have to stay away from it. This is what you need to do. And it is doable is not impossible, is not difficult. So he looking at this margin trading operations. But when you go and open an account with a broker, deposit the required deposit or the margin when you buy and sell through his platform, and he will charge you for this service. He's giving you a service. Now he's combining between a sale
and combining between a loan because he has given you a loan and he has also
sold something for you some services or supplies I sell them NASA and Bay inverse lF bassoon wasallam has forbidden the combination of a loan with a sale
transaction, now Harrison masahisa, a and b in herself. So understand the concept Now, why would Rasul Allah forbid, the combination of a sale with a loan?
What would be the potential problem?
What could be the problems that could arise through this combination?
Give me a loan. And then at the same time we do transaction or I tell you I'm not going to sell my car to you until you give me a loan.
If you give me a loan, what would happen?
interest her not paying him any interest, just a loan, but of
course, I told him give me a loan, so he gave me a loan 2000 tell him I'm gonna pay you back 2000 buy sell me your car or sell you my car.
So what might happen? What are the problems?
conflicts of interest, so I might decrease the price? Because he's giving me a loan. That was there is no transparency now here. Right? I'm not selling the car with the right price. And he's benefiting from the loan. Corazon germanica. Any loan that generates a benefit, exclusive benefit to the lender is not accepted in Sharia. Because loans in Sharia are contracts of benefits or contracts of charity. So he didn't i didn't give him extra money for the 2000 that they got as a loan. But I I gave him a discount. He benefited from the discount. I felt like I should give him a discount good price, because he gave me a loan is a potential problem here. Right? And that's why they told me
they said Sharia encourages transparency, transparency in business transactions. So these brokers here, they are combining between the sale of services and between loans. And this is the first problem with this kind of activities that are done online. And I know many Muslims who are involved in this business. If you try to explain to them they tell you no, it's Hillel and merciless asylum. I used to sell and buy no currencies at his time and they used to buy and sell silver with gold and and so on and they try to make it hell and they try to argue because I know they are heavily involved in it, try to explain to them because there are other forms of Riba. There are hidden forms
of Riba in Islam. We have apparent forms of Riba
that everyone knows about which is interest, extra money, this is shares charged above any capital the amount of float or a debt obligation. And there are some other forms hidden forms of river one of them is this the combination between a sale and a loan
the other problems that odema
mentioned, they said there is a great misallocation of economic resources.
And this $4 trillion
Miss allocation, any resources in any society have to be located to serve that society?
Because this money is coming, what is the source of this money?
Can you do you know what is the source of this money? This $4 trillion.
What does it come from?
Nobody knows. This is a big problem.
Because it's your money. It's my money.
everyone has no it's not numbers. We are our money. Yes, money that is deposited in the banks. Do you think our money is sitting there?
So this is the problem. So there we have Islam, when we say and talk about justice, the concept of justice, economic justice in Islam, they said this is the money of the public and it should serve the needs of the public. It should be located in the right resources. If this money is given in a partnership to a corporation or factory or project to make a project good what happened when the bigger project is establishing a community what will happen? It will create what jobs it will add some value to the economy. It will provide some products right? So people will be happy at least they are putting their money in the bank, but they are benefiting from these good projects. You know
what happened in 2010, the number that they gave you in April 2010. From out of 4 trillion only 533 billion
In dollars, we were used or traded by people who were who needed this money to finance real economic activities.
They are traders, exporters, people who are involved in export import business, or they have factories, they have projects. So they needed to exchange money
for this purpose to finance the real economic projects, that people will benefit from them, the rest of the money 3.5 were cheated by by who?
What What is their name in the market speculators who bought a boon? What is speculators speculation is when you come to the market, you don't mean to buy that stuff, you just try trade to make money out of money. You don't mean to buy anything. Sometimes we speculate on the prices of wheat, and barley and rice, and these commodities that people need. But the purpose is to not to own these commodities, the purpose is to just reverse their transactions and make money out of money. So they come to this market forex market, not because they need they are exchanging Masonic Canadian, or American dollar with Japanese yen, not because they need Japanese yen, you don't need it. The
purpose is to make no profit. But they say 95% of the people who are involved with this market that losing money, they're not making money, only 5% of people and who is making money actually the big banks, if you look, you study this subject, you find that the huge the big banks in the world are involved heavily in this market. And they have more information, they know what's going on, is they are the price makers, they make the prices, they know they all the tools, you as a Muslim, you come to this computer in front of you, and you try to make money through these operations. But you don't have full information.
And plus, you're not doing something and this is not accepted in Sharia. That's a different issue. But talking about from an economic perspective, this money is not used is not used to benefit people, the public. And this money is coming from our pockets, because unfortunately, we don't have alternatives. Most of the people nowadays 90% of people nowadays didn't have access to Islamic banking. And Muslims in the Gulf area in Malaysia, maybe in the UK, they have access to the services. But Muslims in Canada, for example, we don't have any Islamic bank here. So we are forced to open accounts with these conventional banks. And we are forced to play with the rules.
Unfortunately, this is our case nowadays. But that's another another issue.
So the old Mr. D said, you know, we cannot create we cannot have this justice or economic justice into society. If we don't use the money, the resources, the money that is coming from people in the right way. There is another problem. As soon as I send an email, I send a hadith mature fee, our hosts have a sin and do not sell, which you do not have.
And actually this money, as I said, you don't own it, you don't have access to this money, no broker will give you this money in your head, because he himself does not have this money in his head. Actually, it's an allocation from big banks, they tell him you are allowed, it's like a credit line, you are allowed to play with this number
three millions, five millions and millions. And then he would use this money with his clients, he will give them it will allow them to use this numbers in the market. So it's not money that you have, you don't have full control over it. And you are selling it and as I said when you sell if you have a lot of $100 100,000
and you buying Japanese money with it, you do the first transaction and you don't make profit here you have to reverse the transaction to realize the profit or loss. So this Japanese money you have to wait if the price goes up, then you sell it or it depends on your position. If it goes down you sell it in the market and you realize your profit or loss. If there is a profit, this profit of $200 or $300 will be deposited in your bank account within two days.
So there is no immediate
possession in this market. This is something that Muslims have to pay attention to it to Allahu Allah Allah.
We said that we have when it comes to exchanging money, we have the cup of tea, real or physical possession and we have the cups and
one of the example of this cup of hook me
If you go to the bank and you want to exchange money, do a wire transfer, send money to your brother overseas, right? And he gives them the Canadian money and they will tell you who will exchange it with American for example.
They do the exchange, but of course in the computer
and they will give you a receipt
and then they will send this money on your behalf
or you exchange money with them through your account with them your current account.
So view don't give you the accounter value in your hand.
But the deposit this money in your account.
So these forms of possessions or delivery or the Hillel or not, because Rasul Allah Salim said yet and be at hand to hand when you deal with money, when you deal with silver and gold or other forms of money
are the accepted or not. So the owner Murthy said, this is kind of a hook me what is mean constructive possession.
Which means if you have immediate access to this money, then it is held it is accepted. So if you are exchanging money with a bank, and the bank deposited this counter value, the other money that you're supposed to get in your hand, was deposited in your account, do you have access to this money, if you have access to your account immediately, then this is
a valid position, and it is accepted in Sharia. And this is fatwah of all contemporary scholars who are involved in finance, in Islamic Finance, it is accepted. So you don't have to worry about it. If you are sending money overseas, you don't have to tell him, Hey, give me the American money or the Pakistani money in my hand, actually, maybe they don't have Pakistani money here. You cannot give it to you or Somali currency or whatever currency you're trying to. So he will do the transaction on the computer and give you a receipt an official receipt that you did transaction and there are only will be half you will send money this month he will send it and your brother or your uncle or father
will receive it within three days or one week or 10 days. This is accepted this is Hello algorithm. As he said you don't have to get it in your hand. Because the transaction took place and you have a receipt, you have a proof that you did the exchange. And actually your purpose is not to receive the money the purpose is to it's like you received it in your hand and gave it back to him and told him send it back on my behalf. Of course he will charge you some fees. He will charge you for sending in this money overseas. And this is what we do with Western Union and it's valid and it's accepted. What is not halal is what the people are doing within themselves. Private exchange that we do it
with between the brothers and the rest the representative for the other brother, his uncle or his father receives the money after three days or 10 days. This is not Hello, this is not accepted. And as I said it could be solved through if you do it by phone or our Skype or any any martial law now we have different tools of communication. Right. It's not difficult to communicate with your with your cousin, so your relatives and and do it in the same trading session by the formalities except now let's talk a little bit about the new digital currency.
There are our old Mr. amatola him when talking about money and studying the nature of money, we came up with some decisions that are that are is Matt any forms of consensus? consensus is is a Sharia which officially what is the first show source of legislation in Islam is the Quran right? To Sharia muster tertiary. The second one is the sooner for services. The third one is the map of the owner if all the owner of the oma haematoxylin made an agreement about something, then it is valid. It is a valid
you know proof and evidence and it could be used in Sharia. Why? Because it also Lhasa Salim Shan Murthy. Latisha miroku Mati Allah, Allah Allah, Allah would never agree upon and misguidance and there are other proofs that are used from the Quran and Sunnah to prove that agema is a valid proof in Sharia is a valid evidence in theory it could be used. Now, as I said, Our Rudaba made some as you might know, the some decisions, they agree all the aroma of Islam, and one of them they said, you know the the money
cannot be a currency cannot be minted by individuals.
That means the government
it's only the government that has the
authority to make money.
And it makes sense when you think about this issue map his decision, it makes sense or not? What about if individuals are allowed to make money everyone will have a shop at home and make money by himself? What would happen?
Can we control the economy?
Just think about it. And he says makes sense.
So So this new one actually the the considered a crime, they said it is a crime if individuals, these are not law makers here. And in the modern age, these are classical scholars of Islam, they studied these issues, and they said it is a crime for individuals to mint money.
It's only the government, the ruler, who has the authority to establish this Mint is facilities, and it has to have the heart of the Father of the sofa.
Otherwise, it is a crime. Right, this is number one. And number two, they said money has to be widely accepted as a medium of exchange.
If it is not widely accepted in the society, then it is not money.
Because this is the said this is the first quality of money has to be accepted as a medium of exchange. And that's why it was easy for them to make these decisions about paper money.
Now, when it comes to bitcoins, digital currency, and there are other digital currencies that are used now, I don't really understand the system. But I know for a fact that at least this system, this new money has these two problems.
That they said it is not backed by any central bank, it is not backed by any government.
And they said
there was a scientist, a Japanese scientist who lives in California, he's the one who, who actually made the paper research about it in 1998. And then the idea was adopted, who adopted the idea
who adopted the idea and who worked in it, until 2009, we saw this currency, digital currency, you know, being transferred and used by people nowadays. Not all people, but they said many stores are accepting now we are payment with, you know, with Bitcoins.
And you do research about this Japanese,
you know, scientists, you have no information about him. And I have a strong feeling is not this feeling is not when I say feeling that means is not based on research or a federal, a strong feeling
that some governments actually it's this money was made by some governments.
And they are trying to what to test the waters,
test this money.
Because they are not sure if it works or not.
This money works or not, they are not sure about it. So if it fails, they're not going to take responsibility. Because if currency fails, you know, the government has a responsibility to exchange it with another currency to support their people. Any currency in any country, since it is it was backed by the government fiat money, then the government has the sole responsibility to take care of this money and maintain it. And if people lose their money, because of financial crisis will, then the government has a responsibility to protect this money and maintain it. And that's why all governments in the world
impose or the force the banks, all the banking system in every country is supposed to have some sort of insurance.
In a for the deposits. When someone deposits his money in the bank, it is secured by this insurance scheme.
But it is up to 100,000. For example, in Canada, so if we have someone who is wealthy here, and he's depositing $200 or 200,000 or 300,000 in one bank, if there is a financial crisis, and the bank goes into bankruptcy, he will lose whatever above 100,000 the government only guarantees 100,000. But he's above that. It won't be guaranteed. Anyway, so this is the point here is governments have this responsibility to protect their currency. But this currency they said is not backed by any government. The only government they said I think it recognize this digital currency is Germany. I'm not sure about this information. I read it somewhere. I'm not sure about it, but they said Germany
and this what makes me made me feel like that. That that could be the reason Yeah, some governments are behind it. And they are trying to test
This currency. So as I said, if it collapses, if the system collapses, then they are not responsible. But if it works, then they will leak the news later on. And they will say, actually, we will behind it.
And now it's working. Let's do it. Let's have this use this digital currency. This is a feeling not based on research a lot while a long time and I might, no, you might share your knowledge with me, I need to benefit from you. If you have some knowledge about this digital currency currencies, I heard that you had the first ATM here in Vancouver.
established for these kind of digital currencies, the first ATM in Canada was was established here in Vancouver we're allowed to allow anyway. So these money has these problems is not widely accepted. Which means is not money. If you are
using bitcoins using nothing, you're not supposed islamically to use it because it's not money. From a sharing a perspective is not money is not widely accepted in the community as a medium of exchange. Number one is not backed by the government. Because money has to have an extrinsic value like gold and silver, or it has to be backed by the government. Otherwise, it is not money.
And themselves the people who are involved in this activities, they themselves, we don't know. They said we don't know how this you know, all things play out in the future. We don't know we're not sure we're not confident about the future of this money.
We don't know. And it's very volatile, very volatility, the prices are going up and down like crazy. People are losing money. But some people are saying no, we're gonna stay in the market, we're gonna, we're gonna deal with money still buy this money and sell it and everything.
So maybe they are backed by some people, some agencies and governments allow it. Now, I think we should just hold off here got a low FICO. There are some questions we'll know we can deal with them shall everything later.
One thing I want to ask about was the topic of retainers via through lawyers, doctors, or lawyers, therapists, consultants, whatever it may be, is that something that's still is viable, legitimate, according to Sharia retainers, what do you mean by retaining? A client retains
retains your services for the month and you have access to them, or they have access to you 95 every day, but 9599 o'clock to 5pm. But they may not actually use your services throughout the month, but they're paying to be able to retain you there. They can they haven't, it's a payment to ensure that they have access to you at any time. So they hire you. You're hired for that period of time. But you don't even have to be working for them. They just want to want that security of being able to say, at any time between these hours of every day, they can call you.
Yeah, this is Helen has no problem. There is no problem with it. Why? Because actually a hiring contract when you do a hiring contract. But an example I'll give you an example. When you rent a house,
you rent the user, you pay your money for it to use that house. So you're paying for the use of fracked, nonfat nonfat dairy free, but it doesn't mean that you're going to stay in the house for the whole month. You could be traveling for the whole month and stay only one day, but you paid for the whole month when I hire someone and I tell him I need you for 10 hours right from to be available in my place or available outside. But I want you to work for me from eight o'clock to six o'clock in the evening. How about if I don't have worked for him, I still have to pay him because I hired him had the services. So this is inshallah Helen there is no problem with that.
working as a real estate agent.
The brother is saying getting working as a real estate agent.
Now when you work as a real estate agent, there are two types of work that you do you mediate between people, and you show them the houses and you try to make a deal. conclude the deal between the buyer and the seller, which is Heller there is no problem with that and you take your commission and commission is hella The problem is if you help the client, get the mortgage and you bring the application to him.
Or you Tell him I'll help you with the process and you show him how to do it and everything this is a problem because you are involved directly in this in making a sin.
I'll tell you why. Because as soon as I sell them in the famous Hadith Sahih Muslim, Ursula Salim Khan Lana lo Akela river will mockito
or katiba? Who was shahidi? So he said Allah has cursed, the one who consumes Riba and the one who pays it, or who pays it. And the one who writes the contract. And the Two Witnesses or qaddafi achill had eco homes, our homes our they are all the same, right? So now you think about the one who is consuming Riba is benefiting me from dunia perspective is getting some gain material gain. And the one who is paying it, he's paying it because he is he made some money or through his loan or whatever, right? The one who is writing the contract is not part of the the deal, right? But he's helping them he wrote the contract for them. And the witnesses witnesses that maybe the guy who is
writing the contract could be writing the contract for fees, right? It could be making some money, but the witnesses, they just put their names there.
And they witness the contract. And Rasulullah Salim said Allah, Allah has cursed all of these people, to one who wrote the contract, and the two witnesses, who had nothing to gain from the contract. But they will cursed why because they are directly involved in making this sin. And it is a measure of sin
measures. So so if you if the real estate agent is helping those people,
you know, to get the mortgage from the bank, then he is helping them to do something wrong. And this is not accepted in Sharia in Indian philosophy. Now.
If you can work as a real agent, without helping people without helping them to get a mortgage to be financial,
for a company that we know may be
dealing is not we don't have control of that dealing. Yep. What was the position? What if you buy the shares?
For example, company is not.
You never know. You never know nowadays, but I'll tell you what is available for us as Muslims. And from Sharia perspective. The owner when when they studied this,
this company companies, they said
these companies are divided into three types.
companies that have halal products,
the only inhaler products, they make computers or they make food or whatever, and it's
all their products are healthier. And they don't deal with river they don't have credit line. They don't have any income, interest income, they don't have sudo to deal with River. These companies are found some of them are found in Saudi Arabia in some Gulf countries and Qatar in Malaysia and some Muslim countries are there so it's not right to say there is no company that is a pure and Helen
it's not right there are companies are like that, they are called in in in the Gulf in the Middle East they are called clean companies.
The middle ones the ones who are dealing with making halal products like involved in oil and gas for example, only oil and gas which is Helen, but we deal with banks the banking system they get credit lines and the deal with Riva because they need to finance their operations
and the third company's third type of companies
the actually the produce haram ingredients and haram items like restaurant they deal with frenzied with alcohol with
entertainment with argument is things that are not accepted in Islam.
So, when it comes to halal companies, there are lemma all of them agree that we are allowed to buy the shares and trade the shares in the stock market there is no problem with that. When it comes to the third type companies that are held the their products are haram sorry not halal Haram. So they said Muslims are not supposed to deal with these companies. But when it comes to these companies in the middle
that mixed between what is halal and haram, the product is hell and oil and gas but they are dealing with Riba like here in Canada, all companies in Canada should be classified in this second type of companies. But we don't have a cleaning companies we have other haram companies, but we have these two, the these second type of companies that are mixed they are called jellycat motala our SM tala in Arabic. So here we
We have two groups of scholars,
two groups of scholars,
one group of scholars, they said no, if they deal with Riba then they are Hara we cannot buy their shares.
Okay, a second group of scholars, they said Actually, there is a criteria and they have a clear criteria now, they follow this criteria and it is followed by all Islamic indexes, SMP Sharia index and all the other indexes that are found universal indexes in the stock market, they have the Sharia department and the Sharia indexes are monitored by scholars monitored by Muslim scholars. And we monitor them every three months. Like here in Canada we have
we have SMP 60 Sharia index 60, which means there are 60 companies involved in this index. As individuals, we don't have access to the list of this companies the list of this index, but if you deal with a broker, he might give you let you know about these companies. And there is a criteria this criteria is supported by I, as I said by this group of scholars, among them is
one of them is here and based in Vancouver chef Mohamad doctrine as the hermit is one of the scholars who is who are involved in this kind of activities. And
the this ne ne ne Rahmatullah. Ali is a famous scholar from Saudi Arabia. He made this fatwa. He said, if a company is
involved in haram activities, but the main product, the main products of the company is Helen, and companies dealing with Riba he said if you know how much income coming from haram sources, at what time supposed to stop chef, so at what time I'm supposed to stop.
So he said if if a company is making haram halal products, but is dealing with Riba or they are forced to deal with river, he said, If you know how much income by looking at their financial statement and balance sheets and everything, then you take you when you make a profit, he said it's better to stay away from this company. But he didn't say it's Haram. He said he's better,
which is water and taco. But he said, If you wish to trade the shares of this company, then you have to look at how much Haram is involved in their shares. And then you purify, purify your profits, by getting rid of this, you get rid of this Hara income, if you know it is 5% or 10%, then you get rid of 10% of your profit. If you don't know he said, Get rid of 50% of the profit when he changed their shares. And actually what is good about this, their indexes these indexes, we tell you how to purify your income, we tell you that most of them the goal with the criteria of tolerating only 5% of haram ingredients.
So they tell you how to purify your income. If you want to trade with them. I don't want to say it's haram because there are scholars who are better than me. And they said it's hella bad. But there are scholars who said it's Haram. So many scholars, when they discard this issue, they don't make a decision, but they tell people what is available. So if someone wants to stay where he stays away, if someone wants to be involved, he can be involved. But this is what is available for us in Canada
and otherwise you cannot trade in other companies.
Yeah, this is a problem.
I didn't talk about RSP No.
There are different RSP accounts.
Different speaker accounts, any companies when the when they hire employees, some companies force the employees to
to open this RSP accounts. They force them said Ah Barry, you have to have it. And here when they force you, you can take it you don't you cannot lose your job because of this RSP account. Now, we're gonna take some money from your salary, monthly salary and put it in this account and give you some money grant you give you a grant on a monthly basis. This money is placed in a portfolio with a bank.
It could be in a savings account. If it is in a savings account. Pay attention to this
We will the saving account will generate some interest for 5% every month as a Muslim, which you can do you stay in this company. But you go to the saving account, you have to know how much interest is coming to this account, get rid of it. What does it mean get rid of it, give it as a donation you don't give so you don't get sour, you don't get a reward for it because it is a filthy money, you are purifying your wealth. But you can give it to a message you can give it to family members, you can give it to anyone who is in need. That's okay. That's not a problem. Because the money is not filthy by itself. The way you earn money is Hara. Money is money. But the way you earn it makes it
harder. It could be transferred to someone else in Hillel wait becomes halal for him still Hara for you, hello for the other person. So here, if it is a saving account, you get rid of the interest. If it is an investment account, sometimes this money is invested. And here you don't know they are not going to follow the criteria of Sharia indexes. So they will invest the money in different companies. So if you are, you have this account, RSP account, get rid of the profit, keep only the capital, your money and the money that came to you for through the company.
And it is a good money sometimes some companies are very generous, we give you a good amount of money, he takes some money from your salary. And then they give you double or sometimes you know, one brother, he told me 160 percent it's a good amount of money that will come to you for the company. So if you have you are forced to, to, to open this account, there is no question about it, you don't lose your job, you don't change your job unless you want to. But you don't have to. But you try to purify your income through this RSP account profit to get you to which interests get rid of it because the profit is not healthy and you don't know what what kind of investment they are.
And in what kind of investment they are using your money.
If it is optional, then it's up to you. You can say no, I don't want to open this account. If you open it, it's okay. You can you can you can use it follow the same criteria the same method gets rid of interest gets you to profit if it is invested,
belong to item and the same concept applies to our SP education, registered education savings plans for kids. When they grow up when they become 18 years old. They go to university. So the same thing if you open an account for your children, usually it's not a current account a savings account or investment account. Interest gets rid of it.
With it when it is investment.
If it is self managed, there is an option you can you can manage by yourself. But the government will give you only $200 will bear it is not if it is not self managed. We'll give you $500 for your child every year.
If it is managed by the bank, there are I think a herd Nova Scotia allows you to manage it.
The only problem is the only companies you can buy their shares is these indexes we talked about if you want to trade pure halaal fuel companies, they are found in Singapore Malaysia, Robin their fees is very, very expensive. Shauna trade you can trade these companies through TD Waterhouse. But the problem is you pay like the for transaction here that you get it for you pay for a transaction within North America for $9. If you do a transaction with a Singapore company from Singapore or Malaysia, you pay $99. It's very expensive. So as you can see any we don't have too much available or enough opportunities for us as Muslims here in Canada. But we can if we have Taqwa of Allah
subhanaw taala. We look at these opportunities that will fit ours we try to abide by the rules of Sharia
and stay within the limits of Sharia.
And we have the option to go for a walk or a taqwa stay away from everything.
Just smoke with the company gets your salary and that's it. If you want to go to this area, you go within this criteria, the criteria that the odema have explained
holo to Allah and we don't have another option, otherwise you will be dealing with Hannah.
You're forced. Yeah.
Yeah, you asked them Is it a savings savings account or investment account?
What do you do? You take some money from somebody, you have full control.
You can manage.
My shoe, a shoe, both deposits
and he's not generating any interest. It's like a current account you are lucky.
This is the best option.
You are lucky.
You are lucky there are brothers few brothers who have this option. This is the I talked to financial planner in a company and she said no The money is not generating any any interest is sitting there in the bank. I said okay, as long doubt because usually money generates, if it is not a current account, it generates interest rate.
Well, we use it, we know they use it, but you are not given interest. And you are not given any profit. So your money, you're getting your money and the money that is coming from the company hamdulillah talent.
If you want to invest, that's another issue.
That's another issue here. You have to follow the criteria of the Islamic index, otherwise, there is no other opportunity. Well, yeah.
It is usually locked. But if you take it now you pay higher taxes.
Of course, you're saving, they are saving your money.
Helen, there's no problem with that.
Yeah, well, could you write it on the paper if you want otherwise, you can stand up and say it if you want.
All right, it's on a piece of paper.
We'll give them just give them a chance.
end of the night
50% goes to the charity. And the winner takes
draw any it's like a lottery right.
Yeah, it depends. It depends how they do it.
the the money all the money is coming from people who contributed in this, in this, you know, pool, and they are competing, everyone is competing for this money, all those who contributed.
Okay, they are competing to take the price, then it's harder.
But if there is a third party who is not competing with them, like myself and the organization itself, put some money and they are not competing with them. A third party will make it harder will make the whole operation hollow.
If there is a third party who comes inside within this operation puts money like a government or organization participate by putting money without participation participating in the competition. Then it becomes Hello.
I know I don't know. I don't know how they did it.
two options here.
Everyone will put money and all those who put money we can will compete.
This case is haram.
Yeah, it's Haram in this case,
in this case is haram is what I'm saying. If everyone
you know everyone put some money and all of them are competing for this price all of them. Then it's Haram. If there is a third party neutral, he plays some money or he donated some money, but he's not competing with them. When it becomes like a subsidy from a government or organization or who is not competing with them. It becomes hella
that's a different. That's a different concept. The different concept but emotion is halali and you roll up the rim is Helen
No, it's Helen
Hillel with one condition any the basic rule I will tell you about the basic rule and it applies to Tim Horton the owner Maddy said like chef Murthy me and some other odema they said
it is Helen with two conditions the first condition is the merchant does not increased the price.
If he increases the price which will happen
actually who will be compensating for the prices right?
And there will be Kumar here gambling, like people will be gambling paying extra money
with the hope of winning the price. So, here's Tim Horton are we paying extra money? We're not paying extra money. So the first condition is there. The second condition is the said we have to have a need a genuine need. And if you are someone who does not like Tim Hortons coffee, you don't like the products you don't buy for the whole year. And you comma that time when they start you know, and then you start buying every day. There is a problem here, stay away from it. If you have the habit of buying the coffee, then that's okay. That's okay.
The difference between manage is a brother who raise his hand before you go ahead and come sit down with a library
mortgage lender sources or capital from institutional lenders like Freddie Mac and other banks
just hold on
Yeah, Rebecca Hillier Eva, do you is the worst type of river
the river that Allah mentioned in the Quran, because what happened is three parties here you have the seller, and you are the buyer and the bank.
And the bank, the bank is a third party doesn't own the house.
Okay, doesn't own the house. So, he is the bank is financing the deal, he is paying the the owner giving you a loan and charging you interest is a very basic concept right? And this is the basic concept of free will generally at the time of prosumers and before the time of Rasulullah session and it is the worst type of Riba that Allah spent Allah mentioned in the Quran
that Allah Subhanallah mentioned in sort of silvercar feather will be Harbin min Allah, he was already taken notice of for from Allah and His message.
man, it's a long topic, but
we don't have unfortunately, I'm saying this with some sadness here. We don't have a pure halal option for us in Canada. We have some companies, one of them is ijarah loans, stay away from it, it's a fraud.
It's fraud. ijarah loans
are cheating Muslims, unfortunately. And people are I'll tell you, I'll tell you something.
And there are Muslims who got through the they're got, you know, a mortgage through their agreement,
and sign the documents and everything. People who don't have Sherry and Josh, and the guy went home with his wife and they started after the sign unfortunately, as they decided there are many examples after they sign the documents and pay this Sherry a structure fees and everything. They looked at the documents and they reached the conclusion that this could not be its there is no way this could be valid.
There is no way this could be valid. They are not scholars, they don't have Sharia annals just because they know the basic concept of Riba and Islam. And he came to me and said of course is not valid.
But after he thought he should have thought about it before he signed documents and before you pay your fee, paid your fees and there are many Muslims are like that, and then we'll discover that they were deceived they start arguing with them and asking them to pay to give them back their money and they don't they tell you know you're you're sharing a structure fees are not refundable.
We don't give you your money back. There are other companies in Toronto area who are dealing with the concept of diminishing moussaka. Okay, the concept of diminishing moussaka is held by itself, Percy, it's Helen. But the problem is it all depends how you do it is the combining between partnership and between sale between two transactions. The combination could be sometimes halen if you do it in the right way. So they are not doing it the right way. They're not cheating people but they are not doing it in the right way.
which make their agreement very doubtful. But some of them are trying to work on their agreements.
Trying to integrate some improvements to make some improvements on their agreements. And they are trying to invite inshallah, in the future some scholars,
maybe from overseas, who may be from North America and try to educate those people who are involved in this business. So they can improve their agreement. If there is improvement, there is improvement this area who will be happy to all inshallah buy houses through them.
So the concept is okay, basically accepted in Islam. The problem is, there are some other problems.
Like when the now
financing from banks and they don't get financing from banks, they get financing from investors, investors, most of them are Muslim investors, people who have money sitting in the bank, they're investing in this business. But the problem is, the terms of their agreement are more friendly to the investors, they're not friendly to the customers, their clients.
You know, they mean, he charged higher rates of friend, which is helpful, because in Islam, we don't have a you know, certain limit for profit, profit can be negotiable can be discussed between both parties. So they have the right to raise the rates of rent, you feel like they are dealing with you like in a fair way. And that is not fair, right. But the same time is held, but the problem is with other issues, the the combine between a partnership and a sale and a sale is not distinguished from Partnership, which means you go into this contract, having in mind that you have to pay them back what they have spent on this. So you you put money that is equivalent to 20% of the house. And they
contributed 80% of the the price. So they own 80% they are the landlord of 80%, and you are the landlord of 20%. But you are using the higher the whole house. So you'd be renting their share, which is 80%. But the problem when we are partners in Islam, we have to share the losses, we have to you know, share the risk, we have to share the profits everything. And we have to be responsible, both of us both parties have to be responsible about you know, the insurance, the property tax and all the expenses here know, as a customer, you take care of these expenses. This is not fair in Islam. If we are partners, no, you have to take care of your share. You have to pay 80% of the taxes
paid 80% of the insurance 80% of the maintenance, this is not fair. So these terms and not and not you know
i don't know it's just you feel like
so many Muslims are dealing with them feel
they're not ethical. They're not.
You know, it's not fair. This What?
Yeah, so this is what is available for us. But these brothers, these brothers, some of them are good brothers and they are trying to decide actually we're fighting internally with other members of this boards to make the changes and make them healthier, make them more accepted. When this happened inshallah we'll be able to buy this house locked to Allah. But for now, yes.
insurance or life insurance.
Life Insurance is harder.
forcing you to take it depends on the paying for it. Or
if you're paying for it, then it's okay.
If you yourself are paying for it. It's kind of doubtful. I'm not saying it's haram he leaves the job saying is doubtful.
Because you are forced as many Erdem as he said, if you are forced to take insurance in this country, you take if you are forced physically to have all the odem otherwise we cannot drive cars we cannot do many things. But life insurance is different life insurance is based on Riba all the other types of insurance most of them are based on horror horror is sometimes tolerated in Sharia uncertainty, because Reba we have zero tolerance for river life insurance. If it is optional, you don't take it. If you are forced to take it if they are paying for it, it is no problem with it.
Because it came to it comes with a package turbo laser here ss elapid. The main subject of contract between you and your company is
They are hiring yourself.
services, this is the main subject of contract between you and the company. So these kind of things are attached to the main subject of contract
issues whatever and whose was declared and can be something could be attached to something it could be it could become halen, if it is not the main subject of contract.
Let's say that insurance was forced to me by the company, you know,
insurance, whatever was supposed to pay for me that way they paid to my family.
He said, You take only what you paid
for what what the what the company paid on your behalf.
I know what you mean.
I know to me, because the owner was he said, You take what you paid.
If you pay 10,000, you take 10,000. The rest you give it as a solder Cola, which is a big amount of money. But this is the federal law that is available now for us. Because they said the life insurance is is based on arriva you pay some money is the hope of getting another amount of money. If it is not equal, it is river, if it is a higher amount Trinity's river
will allow to Allah alum, Yanni, I'm not I need still to look at different photos regarding this issue. Because you have is not your choice. You didn't go for it, the company's company force you to take it, you still have to look at different factors. But the fact was that I know from the odema he said when it comes to life insurance, not other types of insurance, other types of insurance, health insurance, if you're paid back after an accident, or something you are allowed to take money to take whatever compensation you are given. But when it comes to life insurance, they said you take what you paid.
So this is the federal that is available, Allahu Allah Allah. But this is a matter that they need to look into it.
I think we should give telco systems, I think the SR. One system which
I think actually a question. Yes. So
regarding the last question that we asked.
You mentioned that two people are competing and company in
Well, I don't know the reasoning behind it. I thought about it like you he and he had the same question.
There is a hadith but the Hadith is not his controversial Hadith about a third horse and participating in a competition at the time for sola Selim. But the Hadith itself is controversial.
The Anissa morona must decide is a hate summary lemma. They said we so I until now I couldn't reach a conclusion about it.
but this first one is made by World recognized scholars like chef Murthy, Nene and some other scholars.
Yeah, if you include the party that is not competing for the price, it becomes Helen, this is the federal of many scholars. I think based on those who said believe that Hadith is
what also wasallam said if a third horse is competing, and it becomes the whole race becomes Hillel
between two horses if a third fourth horse is not competing for the price, those who believe that how do you decide hey, who are making this federal
he said it's hella based on the very view about the Hadith or lo to Allah. But myself, I am just conveying a message here is not something that I any I reach as a conclusion. It's just conveying the federal of some other scholars.