Channel: The Deen Show
Meet Shaykh Joe who got Baptized at the age of 11 years old and shortly after that accepted Islam. Joe once asked his pastor if Jesus is God, and the son of God how can you be your own father?
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Peace be with you. Welcome to another exciting episode of the deen show. Subscribe if you've not subscribed already. My next guests
baptize at a young age of 11 accepted this Dean in 1991. Shortly later, and then not only accepted it went on to get a master's in it. Get ready to meet Mr. Joe. Actually shake Joe here on the deen show. We'll be right back.
He's been with you sit on a Chrome.
Mr. Show, Joe. Joe. Some people call you Joey? Only my grandmother, my aunt. Mr. Joe shake. Joe. How are you doing? I'm great. Just Joe's fine. My good friend. Dr. Brown. Yes. You know him? Yes. He actually some time ago. He had told me he was good friends with you and that I should get in contact with you at a Hamidullah. I didn't have to look for you actually ended up in Chicago. Yeah, we just ran into each other. Yeah. You see, you see a law makes things happen. I'm the law. All right. I'm the law. So tell us now, I mentioned when I opened the show baptism, yes. Now, that's what you do when you're from the Christian Catholic religion. Well, most Christians will baptize Catholics
baptized at birth. Protestants usually baptized later in life, because it's a choice. You have to choose to be saved. So around the age of 11, or 12, I was attending a Southern Baptist Church in the neighborhood that I lived in in Charleston, South Carolina.
And I just decided that that was the thing that I wanted to do. Jesus got baptized and I needed to get baptized. And so I asked the pastor, if he could do it, he said, Yes. And get my parents permission. And I did. They allowed it, but they refused to attend. And then he convinced them to at least, you know, attend and and then that was that was it. I continued in, you know, vacation, Bible school and Sunday school and all that good stuff. As a kid. What does it mean, get us more familiar with baptism? What does it mean? You said Jesus was baptized? What does that how do we look at it from an Islamic perspective? Well, so yeah, they said, Mr. john the baptist was was known for
baptizing people was a symbol of washing away their sins and for them kind of kind of like when one of us takes Shahada. And so it was this renewal of life you go into the water, you come out a new person, you're washed of your of your sense. And so the concept is there in Islam, as the Prophet it sought sampled some of his companions alotau them in Islamic Juma Kabbalah Who do you not know that Islam wipes away everything that came before it? So the idea of baptism is the same except that of course, in baptism, they say we baptize you in Jesus name, and it's this dedication to the life of Jesus. So I was inclined to that because I was the kind of the church going one in my family.
Now, you said your front, where were you born again? I was born in Detroit, Michigan, but you were speaking some other language. I was speaking Arabic. Yes. But you're not Arab. I'm not Arab know what's going on here.
That's what everyone wonders, okay, because I were trying to connect at an airport. We have a lot of not yet Muslims out there. And they're like, Okay, he's not one of us. He's the other What's he doing? Speaking? He's not speaking English, Anglo Saxon. He's speaking Arabic. He's an Arab, right? What do you have to say? So I learned Arabic, after I accepted Islam at the age of 15, when I was kind of church going as a kid off and on going with neighbors and things like that. I always knew that the Bible had been written in a language other than what it was revealed in, you know, was written in Greek and Latin. But Jesus wasn't Greek and he wasn't Latin. He was, he was a Middle
Eastern. He was Middle Eastern person, he spoke Aramaic. So I wanted to learn Aramaic. And then when I heard about Islam, and I became Muslim, and I said, What languages have Koran written, and they said, it's written in Arabic, the original language, it was real, and it blew me away. I was like, This is great. I need to learn Arabic. So I started attending Sunday school, at the Islamic center of Northeast Florida. There in Jacksonville, Florida. That's amazing. So first, you wanted to you mentioned something that Jesus was Middle Eastern, so he wasn't many people in the south for, you know, some of the churches they have a man with blue eyes, blonde hair, that's not the reality.
Well, we don't necessarily know exactly what he looked like we do have a hadith from the Prophet alayhi salatu salam, explaining that he was a brown skinned person with curly hair came down to his his shoulders, he had broad shoulders, the description very much fits what we
We consider to be Middle Eastern. So it is definitely not Caucasian. Definitely not European in origin. Even there's what you're saying to the same thing. It's in the Bible mentions that more of a dark complected.
person. Yes, yeah. Okay, so then the other thing is you want it to just like someone out of their sincere, earnest desire, they want to get close to God. So now they want to go back and look at the scriptures and speak the language to get closer to God that Jesus would have been speaking, which was Aramaic. Then you come to Islam and now the sister language is Arabic, Arabic. Yeah. And you actually go on to study and you get your master's degrees this right? Yes, yeah. So I started Sunday school, I actually learned the Arabic language in the United States.
To read, write and speak, I have to give, you know, thanks to Allah and then thanks to one of my first teachers of color Alisha, who was the Imam of the masjid at that time, kind of gave me the fundamentals and I was able to run with it. And and then I then later on in 1999, I went to Medina did my bachelor's, master's, and then have been you know, working ever since. But hold on, what's going on? you're baptized at 11 what are you doing in Medina? At what age is this now? 2425 What happened here? Yeah. So, you know, accepting Islam at the age of 15. Finishing up high school, you know, the beginning of 10th grade year, people told me you need to go and learn Islam you need to go
to the Muslim world. There was a an elderly brother named Curtis Shabana Azmi lived mercy on him. You know, he sat me down, he was a cancer patient. And he he would drive all the way to the masjid with his wife and be so weak, he couldn't even come inside the door. So he would direct the car in the direction of the Qibla. And he would pray in his car. So I used to go and sit with him in his car. And he said, Look, you have to go and learn this Deen and take it back to the people. So I want you to, you know, go to overseas. So I started applying for everywhere, applied for as hard as debate, you know, Medina and hamdulillah. Eventually I got into Medina, but I'm talking about
someone right now not yet Muslim, you know, our brothers in humanity. Many of the Christians who we never want to disparage on, but they're like, hold on, was he not full of the Holy Ghost? If you don't accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior to die for your sins, you're going to hell far. So you there so you took a wrong turn now? You you maybe you found the Antichrist?
Have you heard some of these things? Yeah, you know. So, you know, in, I believe it's in Corinthians, it says, God is not the author of confusion. So faith should not be faith should not be confused, confusing. You know, the devil cannot stand on a on a on a, an, or foundation cannot stand on. So if you buy that I forget this scripture, but I know which one I'm talking about. So you know, this idea that it's the Antichrist, Islam is from the Antichrist, or the devil doesn't make sense because Islam preaches against the Antichrist and against the devil. So it necessarily can necessarily be from that origin. Yeah. So What had you leave? Because you got baptized? Again, why
do people at what age? Why do what described a baptism what's done here, you just dipped in the pool, and now you're born again. So there's, there's, there's water that's usually blessed by the pastor, the priest. And then you were all white garbs, much like a thug that mirror that Muslims would marry, that was Muslims with where, and then you, you, you, you go into the baptism pool, and the priest will hold a cloth over your mouth to protect your nose and mouth, and then hold you by the back of the head dipped into the water, and he'll be saying, you know, prayers and blessings, and then bring you back up. And then he'll say, you know, you're baptized in Jesus name. And you
have started a new life, you know, you're not going to be a perfect person, but you've started a new life. Okay, our audience wants to know, we're going to find out like, what is it that really at the end, you know, went from baptism, and what was it that triggered you to come over to this way of life that actually Jesus lived, that Moses lived that Abraham lived? We got a lot more to talk about with Mr. Joe shake Joe here on the show, don't go anywhere. Slump says love all mankind. That's why we're sharing this message. Because we want the best for you and we want the best for all mankind. Please subscribe to the show. Follow us on our official Facebook and Twitter pages in the links
below. Please also help support the show by making a donation in the link below.
Back here on the deen show, okay, so now, before I even get to that, you know, we're talking about a subject that many people are apathetic towards, you know, religion, they think it's something weird. Many times you have a lot of weird things, mystical things associated with it. Why is this subject so important?
Everyone needs a, you know, everyone needs a moral code to live by.
And the thing is, is that human beings are limited in our comprehension in our knowledge, so we can't do it alone. And if we recognize that, you know, tracks on the beach mean, someone will walk was walking their waves in the ocean means you know that there's a current stars in the sky, you know, all of these things, should it not tell us that there's something that made all of this and that made us and so if we want to know how to live
moral life to the fullest. I'm not saying that people that don't have faith can't be moral. But if we want to live a moral life to the fullest, then we need to know what the Creator of the heavens and the earth wants from us. And that's why, you know, religion is important. How about if someone said can't like science dictate my moral code?
Science is empirical science is about, about the gathering of facts. It does. It's not philosophy. It's It's It's not, it's not ethics. And so it you know, you can, you can work within a certain amount of facts, but that doesn't, that doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to use those facts or that data that's in front of you correctly. We know that the Quran is a book that's tamper, free tamper proof revealed over a span of 23 years, it has a challenge, you know, if you want to disprove that it's not from God do this, this and that. It's based on reasoning rationale causes people to think ponder. So, you know, a lot of times we talk to people of other religions that talk
about how to dream, you know, this came over me, right? And a lot of weird things, right? Is that what happened to you? Is that why you came to Islam? Did you see some something in a dream did something weird happened to you? What was it about Islam that had you come over? So I was I was at home with my older sister, and I went to her room, and she had a magazine. And she said, Here, you know, read this magazine, do something with your life, you know, older sister. And in that magazine, there was an article about a girl who had accepted Islam, she was a readers column. So she wrote in about the most amazing thing that happened to her in her life. And it was becoming a Muslim. And so
I read that article, and I had never heard about them before. I had heard about Arabs being from Detroit, but I had not heard about Islam. So it piqued my interest. And I went into the encyclopedia. This is pre internet, school libraries, public libraries, trying to find information. So I spent that was when I was 14 years old. So I spent the time from 14 to 15. Just looking for information about Islam. Do you also did you find that appealing at the same time that you didn't have to leave this love for Jesus that we also in our faith, we believe in love Jesus is one of the mightiest messengers of God, except we don't worship him as a God. That was actually surprising to
me. When I came to the masjid for the first time, when I went to the Islamic center of Northeast Florida, was Sunday school time was talking to people. And they were like, you know, Jesus and his friend, as soon as they said, Jesus, like, hold on. Am I in the right place? Because I was tired about hearing about the deification of Jesus. So I wanted to make sure that I was, you know, I said, Jesus worship God, I only want to worship God. And they said, Yeah, don't worry. That's, that's what Jesus did. And that's what we do. So you had so going back, you had a problem with that your fitrah Well, we call it now the innate nature was rejecting this man worship. Yeah, I mean, you read you
read, you know, all these stories in the Bible about, you know, Abraham, worship God and Moses worship God, and Isaiah worshiped God, and then you get to Jesus, and he worshipped God. And then there was this break, okay? Now Jesus is the Son of God, or Jesus is God, or Jesus, his son, and God, which didn't make sense to me, I remember going to my pastor, as a child and saying, if Jesus is God, and Jesus is the Son of God, how can you be your own father, and he just patted me on my back and said, Son, you just have to have blind faith. And that was actually it was after baptism. And that's when I left the church. I started looking for another church to go to because it just
didn't make it didn't sit well with me. God is not the author of confusion. Why am I confused? no answers. It's a bottleneck. Don't think about it. If God endowed me with an intellect, I should be thinking about what I'm doing. That's, that's a, the antithesis to a myopic way of thinking, now just being restricted to maybe what your parents are on, just following blindly culture and society. And you went against the odds, because now you went up against society and the norms and but you were sincerely earnestly wanting to know the truth. And even though you're going to probably catch some heat for it, did you? I did a little bit yeah. Yeah. My, my parents were not really sure what
it was I was into. You know, my friends at school were kind of strange, but I my real good friends are friends until this day. Yeah, yeah. We know nowadays, what are some of the most common gimme one of the most common questions you might get asked when someone finds out you're Muslim, maybe an old family friend at a family reunion or something like that, or just someone that comes in sees your wife says, Man, this guy's not Arab, or somebody's Muslim? I'm not married both. I'm American born here. Right. So what would what do they usually ask you? I think it's surprising to a lot of people that they're, you know, they kind of they associate Islam with being South Asian or Arab. And it's
shocking to them and I think it kind of breaks that that mold of or that false idol of Islam being foreign. Now Islam is just as is is a religion that has been here in the United States for centuries and will be we mentioned blind faith. The pastor was telling the priest telling you just gotta have blind faith. Yes.
If someone says, Well, that's how all religions are, we just got a blind faith. What would you attribute that same thing to Islam? What would you say? No, I would say no. If you read the Quran one of the things that that that really struck me about the Quran is that in every set of verses you'll find, ponder this, think about this, contemplate this, look in the heavens in the earth. Look at the signs that God has given. Think. So there's this, this this enticement to use your rationality to use your intellect, to base your faith upon. So when someone says, look, you just you missed the boat, because now you don't have someone there to carry yours, since Jesus paid the
price. And you just left all that, you're going to hell for that? What are you going to tell him? I would say that the the problem with thinking that you assert your, you know, even in Christianity, that's a very popular notion. But that's not even with Christian fathers say, many of them will say that we don't enter Paradise because of our sins or because of Jesus, we enter it because of the grace of God. And as Muslims, we believe very similar, that, but we The thing is, is that we don't, we don't say with certainty that we're going to heaven are going to help me said it's the will of God, because He created us and he knows best, how to judge us. So the idea that I'm somehow forced
out of heaven, because I don't have Jesus to save me. Well, who would save Jesus? Who would he call on? If he called him someone that I should call him that same person? And that's what he did I get amazed, you know, obviously, the Lord's Prayer. Yes. Would you say it's so similar to the effect he had? I would Yeah. You know, just call out how our Father in heaven, if you just say, our Creator, or
our Lord Our Lord, we're in heaven? How does the rescue hollow benign, and any of them come? Thy will? Thy will be done? Yes. Was he doing Islam? And was he a Muslim? Jesus? Yes, of course. How when you first when you found that out, before we go to break how someone said, How is that that's impossible? How is he a Muslim doing Islam? Well, when you when you when you submit to God, you're a Muslim. So everything that submits to God is is Muslim, because Muslim means the one who submits their will in their life to God. Beautiful, exciting. I'm excited with Mr. Joe, shake Joe here in the deen show. We'll be right back with more don't go anywhere Salaam says love all mankind. That's
why we're sharing this message. Because we want the best for you. And we want the best for all mankind. Please subscribe to the show. Follow us on our official Facebook and Twitter pages in the links below. Please also help support the show by making a donation in the link below.
Back here on the D show. Now, many of us who live this life, we see that things just kind of get played out jaded real quickly. You know, you just wake up it's kind of what's that movie gophers day.
It was way back in the day. It was like he just keep repeating the same thing. Oh, yeah. Oh, Bill Murray movie. Yeah, yeah. And many people just keep doing the same thing from Monday to Yeah, because of monotonous, monotonous, you know, but here, I want to share one one verse from the verbatim Word of God the Quran. And I want you since I, we have an opportunity to be with someone who studied in the Islamic University to share your thoughts with us because I often this is one of my favorite verses from the Quran where the creator saying in chapter 57, verse 20, know that the life of this world is both playing and amusement and diversion, adornment and boasting to one
another, and competition, an increase of wealth and children, like the example of rain who's resulting plant growth pleases the tillers, then it dries and you see it turned yellow, then it becomes scattered the breeze and in the Hereafter is a severe punishment and forgiveness from Allah and approval. And what is the worldly life except the enjoyment of delusion? I mean, I just you know, coming back also, from those days where you just live for this dunya what this is so powerful what what how would you summarize this is first first thing that comes to mind when I hear this versus the cyclical nature of life, you can be in a cycle that you think is never ending. And I know
I've been there in life where I didn't really know what the next day was going to be, what the next month was going to be, and, and what I could expect out of life, you get to the point where you think, well, am I gonna live to 30? Am I gonna live to 40? I don't know what's gonna happen after that. Where's the example that's given in the verse is that what you're experiencing right now will end and you have to be prepared for it. So don't be deluded into thinking that this life is going to be forever and that there's nothing after it. You have to be responsible for your own deeds. You have to have accountability for yourself and you will be accounted for one day and when you realize
that you realize that in reality, you know, this life is not about the material
That you have, but it's about the meanings that you leave behind. Usually when we hear these stories, it's really inspirational and I've hummed a lot, thank god I've interviewed so many people that have come over to this way of life because it's it's a rational thinking man's decision that you make you don't just make Did you? Did you just make this base off emotion? Or did you really I mean, us, I took it I took a year, I mean, a reading off and on. You know, I said to myself, well, Islam seems like it came after Christianity, maybe something else came after Islam. I started researching Hinduism and Jainism, Sikhism and all of the Eastern religions that I had never been
exposed to. And every time I contrast it, and compared, as Tom came upon on top, whether it was justice, whether it was beauty, whether it was devotion, whether it was prayer, whether duty to parents, Islam always came up on top, and that's what motivated me to become a Muslim. It wasn't the thing of saying the certainty of just saying, Yeah, I'm saved in Jesus's name, and then going out and just wiling out the entire week. Right? But it was, I have to be a responsible person in myself, I have to be Regiment, I have to be accountable for myself. And when I'm accountable for myself and you're accountable for yourself, then even just from a secular standpoint, society's better off. So,
you know, faith adds to society in the sense that it gives every person a regimen and a personal responsibility so that they can be a contributing member to the general welfare of society, and they'll get their reward in the next life as well. We mentioned I asked you about Jesus being a Muslim, he obviously never heard this word, Christian. If you brought them back today, you know, he'd be like, What are you talking about? I was one who submitted to all of that. That's IE a Muslim, just like Moses, Avery, they were all Muslim, Abraham, same thing. And they were doing Islam. Islam, you said, we could say that this is also the lifestyle they were living. Yeah, right.
From the big we can put it all together from the very beginning of the first man, Adam, until the last semester of Mohammed with all the profits in between, of course, how can we do that?
How can we do that? Yeah. Because most people, when they look at Hinduism, they say, Okay, this came before Islam, they think, Christianity, but when I tell people look, Islam, when you define it submission to the will of God was the first original religion. Well, it's the theory of history. Okay, so we don't have in, you know, in Islamic thought, the theory of history is that everything started off with guidance from God and then diverged from there. Whereas in other theories of history, they say, Well, everyone was searching for the truth, and they all have variant origins, then we say, No, the origin was one, God has always sent guidance to people. And that's why you'll
find people that say, for example, from the Indian subcontinent, other parts of the world, let's say, we have these indications of the oneness of God, and there being someone sent very early on in our religious scriptures. And then it was, you know, people that came after that priests and pundits and Saudis and all these that changed these type of things, or added or subtracted. And that's why you have the left final prophet Mohammed because he came to, to, to as a criterion for what had come before to say, this was right from it, this was wrong from it. And now here are the general principles that you live by until the day of judgment. Tell us now you obviously you can't you are
climbing and you're still climbing the spiritual ladder, meaning that you're seeking knowledge. This Deen requires work and effort, how important is it for many of the people who take it for granted. They don't like to,
you know, stay at their job position in school at a certain level that you just want to keep climbing. But you see, like Muslims today, they don't see the value of seeking knowledge and climbing that spiritual ladder. Right? You know, it's, it you you give a great example. Many times we we endeavor for the best in our in our line of work, we endeavor for the best in our personal enjoyment. But when it comes to our faith, then we wonder why we wonder why we're depressed. We wonder why we're worried. But if we, if we, if we do endeavor to be the best, even as a person of faith, and he's an even worshiping God, then we can start to free ourselves from those negative
emotions, not rid ourselves and that's completely different thing. Two pieces of advice, one for now, the Muslim, the one who's chosen constantly. And again, Islam is not something inherited, you got to make that conscious decision. Definitely. Many have have still gone through the rituals, maybe their family, you know, just brought them up, but they still there. They're confused. Many are going towards this whole new trend. It's these trends, atheism, new atheism, right. So the Muslim was tuned in and he's like, he likes what you have to say he's impressed. He's like, what this guy you know, he's American, born here was Christian baptized, went to study overseas and got his
master's degree, he's lost. He's confused. What advice would you give him? I would say that no one can. No one can solve the problem or the dilemma that you have in your mind. You have to think what you're dedicated to. The problem is with many Muslims that take their faith for granted. They're many times taking it as a part and parcel of their ethnic identity, their cultural identity, just something that they grew up with. And you have to say is if this is
Part of me, I should understand it. If I claim to be an engineer, I should know engineering. If I claim to be a Muslim I should know Islam and last pieces of advice for the not yet Muslim because everyone has the potential to submit to the will of God and that's all that Islam is submission to the will of God. But he keeps seeing all these crazy things that the media is showing him he's scared, right? And you know what it makes sense the pure monotheism and all the other things what we're saying, but again, all of these negative stereotypes that he's got his mind she's got in her mind what would you say to him? I would say remain open to the truth. Do don't don't take things at
face value do your own research think about it yourself. You're an individual you have your own mind and be open minded to learning about things and to becoming a better person and when you do that with with sincerity then God will guide you we're out of time but tell us we got some more time a about your book and yeah, so this is a simple as a cat guide. It's a book that I wrote for, you know one of the five pillars of Islam as a cat many Muslims are mystified by it because as to do with money and how do you calculate it? Either you find a pamphlet in the masjid that isn't descriptive enough where you got a volume this work by a scholar that's two three volumes you nap time to read.
So I made this simple book with worksheets that people can go through step by step understand how they can fulfill their duty to their fellow man and giving back to the communities that they live in. Besides selling a sunny salaams to to everybody out there that peace you want to send peace to our brother who?
Dr. Lawrence brown I see him I haven't seen him in a long time. Yes.
So like we started we have a PS PSP would you solemnly Thank you so much. Thank you. And that was Mr. Joe shake Joe Hannah Dean show you can check them up at his website, get his book, and also 100% compliance for your wills. And when we say Sharia man this is the law that Moses brain This is the law that all the messages of God call people to purpose of life while you're here while you've been created. You want to know if you just popped up on the moon what you were doing there? So what are you doing on this earth just to attain a lot of wealth and money and then when you die? just heard a story you know, a true story a man 1,000,020 million dollars front of the founder, he died he left
all you think he took any of that money with he took he left it all behind? So what are you preparing for your trip?
That trip that we're going to take after we leave this life, everything's become a past tense, Been there, done that. But see the intellectual person he's not my myopic See, he's not narrow minded. He's thinking, ultimately, of what comes for infinity. And that's the next life that all of these messengers they call people to think about, to reflect over, to be accountable for what they're going to do in this life, and to attain the next life by obeying the commands of God by being good, doing good. And it's all built on that pure monotheism that Jesus was upon that Moses was upon to Abraham and all the other messages including the last and final messages sent to mankind while and
and with this story this this this authentic ad for he described him as as a beautiful brick house beautiful man a beautiful house that everybody would just go around and and adore and they said, but look look there's just a little piece of a brick missing here what why what's what's that? He said that's what I represent. He was the finale at finishing the completion of this house this messenger ship and he's the last in front of messenger sent to mankind problem peace be upon him get to know him get to know Islam, get to know the truth. Call us one 800 662 Islam and subscribe if you haven't already. Time is over. We'll see you next time until then Peace be with you Salaam says love all
mankind. That's why we're sharing this message because we want the best for you and we want the best for all mankind. Please subscribe to the show. Follow us on our official Facebook and Twitter pages in the links below. Please also help support the show by making a donation in the link below.