Channel: Jonathan Brown
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out to bid on the shutdown of Virginia smilla rahmanir rahim al hamdu Lillah wa Salatu was Salam Allah said, and we're studying while earlier, he was so happy. I mean,
is this loud enough?
I can talk louder, that better.
So I did write the outline of this talk on a Starbucks napkin. But that doesn't mean that I don't take it seriously. It just means that when whatever, you know, inspiration struck me that struck me, it happened to be that I was in Starbucks, and I didn't have any paper. So
it's no reflection on the audience or my esteem for them. In fact, I'm quite taken by the minbar here, which is beautiful. And someone after this plot explained to me, you know, the history of this mosque and who came up with this design?
the topic that
it's come up actually several times since I've been here in Southern California, and several people have asked me about it, and I haven't really addressed it any talks yet. And so,
as I've given numerous speeches, so far, in the week I've been here, I've kind of been running out of things to say, because people keep coming to the same talks, at least one or two people are there, so can't well give them the same speech. So I think not only is this something that I haven't talked about yet in my visit to this area, but also I think it's extremely important and it's a ball in many people's minds.
It's related to the talk listed on the title of the of the event, but it's not exactly the same. It has to do with the relationship between the Quran,
Quran and the Sunnah of the Prophet list. salatu salam.
And of course, one of the ways that we know about the Sunnah of the prophet is our heads deeds about the Prophet, about his words and his deeds.
This often his his comes up in in people's lives, Muslims lives in America, sometimes it's a debate between family members or between friends. And oftentimes, it's discussed in the context of what sometimes called the Koran only movements, or the Holy Quran,
which is a movement that really arose in it was then British India in the late 1800s. And the early part of the 20th century, when later, you know, had a flare up in Egypt in the early 20th century. And today is something you find not only in, in Pakistan, especially, but also in, in some forms in Turkey, and amongst some Muslims in the West. So I wanted to talk about this, this movement and
just talk about the relationship between the Quran and the Sunnah. And to try my best to, to, to give give credit to people's people's intentions on these affairs, but also to, I think, try and give at least what I think is a good understanding of the proper relationship, the necessary relationship between the Quran and the Sunnah necessary role of the Sun and the lives of Muslims.
I think that if you look behind the the complaints, or the concerns or the motivations of those people who believe that the Koran should really Islam, and the practice and belief of Muslims should only be taken from the Koran, I think that it's important to see what their what is it that is kind of digging into their heart. Part of it is a disappointment with the way that Islam has been explained to them the way that let's say, more traditional what Mr. have presented Islam. Sometimes they think that this Islam is not really suitable for the modern world, that it doesn't represent the true values that they understand is coming from the Quranic from the Prophet, and therefore,
that it has to in some way be a misunderstanding has to some way be a mischaracterization of the true teachings of the Quran under the Prophet. I think there's also
an element of class, right? A lot of times, if you look in South Asia, people who become olema are, you know, from poor families from families that aren't you weren't very close to the British system, the British Raj or to the to the elite that remained after the end of the Empire. And the oftentimes ethnic Rand people, the original formulators of this theology or this ideology in this movement, were people who were working with a British who were working in the elite and so on.
In a way, they the Quran only movement becomes a way to create a vision of Islam that is free of their lemma. And they're kind of lower class traditionalism, but also is still Muslim, and compatible with the values of their kind of westernized culture to which they're inspiring, aspiring. So I think these are important.
At least for me, I feel they're they're accurate characterizations. And I think that their characterization characterizations that apply to Muslims in the West, especially in the United States, not necessarily in Europe, but certainly in the United States, where immigrant Muslims from immigrant backgrounds tend to be upper middle class, even upper class professionals were very accomplished, who were very educated, who value education, and often see, you know, imagines back in their home countries as coming from as representing a three flank what they see is a backward approach to religion, a backward approach to life in general. So the the traditional Islamic
sciences become associated with backwardness, and so breaking free of them, and saying, you know, we want to break free of all these, these, these are Atlanta and they're, they're Hadeeth that they tell us and the way that they're telling us we have to understand a crime we want to understand the Quran as, as modern people, as people who are educated people were influenced by the West. I think we have to see this, this motivation and not I personally don't agree with I don't agree with his motivation. I don't think it's correct. But, you know, I often feel it myself, you can and I think maybe many, especially educated Muslims in the West have felt these these sentiments before, so but
they're not invalid sentiments.
I think Joseph Dr. Lombard really should be giving this part of the talk. But if I say something wrong, just raise your hand or throw like an empty empty water bottle at me and I'll, I'll try and adjust or throw a message with a piece of paper or a paper airplane. I'll try and adjust if I make any mistakes. But I think it's we need to think about the ways in which the Quran speaks to us. How is the Quran spoken to Muslims over the centuries, the during the life of the Prophet Lisa Salaam, the Quran speaks to Muslims, to his followers and to him directly, in context that they understand. Just as if I'm speaking today about events that are happening in the news or about challenges this
community is facing immediately, we would understand exactly what I'm speaking about. If you go, however, essentially a decade or century or even a year or 1400 years into the future, to understand
what the Quran is saying, becomes a great challenge. And we see that the crying can speak to us on many different levels.
The Koran can speak in universals, the CRAN can make universal declarations about the nature of God. God's oneness does not change. When automobiles are invented. God doesn't. oneness does not change when you're at peace versus at war. God's mercy, God's creative power, God's justice, these things don't change. So discussions of the natures of God are by definition, eternal truths. They're universal truths. The Quran gives us universal moral truths in a la jolla motorable Hollywood sandwich at the record bar we're in hi Natasha. It will Monica Buffy, you had to come Lala come to the karoun. God commands you to justice to goodness and perfection, to take taking care of those who
are close relatives of yours those related to you. He forbids from you things that are unacceptable and wrong, things that are excessive
He tells you this. He warns you of this he preaches to a visit that you may heed. These are universal. This is a eternal command that will always be applicable to human beings. It's its application in an immediate situation might change. What does justice mean? What does goodness mean today in the United States? What does justice mean? What does goodness mean when a homeless person asked me for money? Do I give it to him or her not?
What? Maybe I will be hurting them. If I do this? Maybe I should give them something else. We should help them in other ways. What is justice is disagreed upon by people in particular situations and that's totally normal. But the call to justice the command to justice when God says Elizabeth Arabic And Bill bill Hekmati would not read that Hasina calls the path of your Lord with wisdom and goodly preaching. This is a universal command. It will always apply.
The Quran warns us away
from sins that are that are universal for Muslims, they will always be sinful.
Takapuna do not approach sinner, you know that, that alcohol, that wine has good benefits and, and harms, but that the harms outweigh the benefits and that ultimately it is a religious it is a foul thing, a tool from the one of the tools of the devil that we should avoid, these are always going to be true. It doesn't matter if you're in a place like, let's say, Utah where no one drinks. Or if you're in a place like Boston, where everybody drinks, I'm just joking. But there are a lot of people, people from a certain island that we have affection for, or there's a lot of alcohol drinking. So that's never going to change.
The Koran speaks to us through particulars in the life of the Prophet. But that particular is that even though they might refer to him as a South Sudan also resonate with us. And I remember the moment in my life, I was already Muslim, but had been Muslim maybe for about a year or so. But the moment in my life that has always been a touchstone for truth, and certainty, and that no matter how confused I get, no matter how lazy I get, no matter how distant I feel from God, I always go back to this moment, is the most truest moment in my life. When I was in US traveling in the summer was one of my friends. We were traveling in Senegal and Mali, and we were in
the city or we were in Bamako, the capital of Mali, we're taking a bus to sometimes use is here was the universe scholar with me. And probably maybe I gave I told this story in a clip by their I apologize for the repeat information. But this is a good example, at least for me. I was traveling from Bamako, to the city of Mopti. And it was about a 212 hour or eight hour bus ride. And it was the summertime in Mali is very hot. And I felt we both felt great. But I started feeling a little bit of tickle in my throat. And within half an hour, I was the sickest I've ever been in my whole life. I was I felt like my throat hurts so much. I felt like he was bleeding on the inside. And of
course, we know in the news today in Africa, there's some pretty serious diseases. And I was you know, I had no idea what was afflicting me, I was terrified. I was miserable. We were on this bus. And it was so crowded and so hot. And I was in complete agony. My whole body aches I've never been so miserable. And the Malian guy next to me had this boombox is stereo on batteries and he was playing the police sound, you know the rocks and and don't stay so close to me and rocking on the moon. To this day, I cannot listen to any of those songs over and over and over again at full volume. I felt like I was going insane. And it was a moment in which I had the most profound doubt
I've ever had in my life. I remember is I think this actually we could have a whole nother lecture given by someone worthier than me about what Crawford means. But Crawford is not atheism. Crawford is not saying God doesn't exist. Crawford is in gratitude to God for His covering up the truth. It's in gratitude at its heart. And it's funny that in this most profound moment of doubt I've ever had in my life. I I remember very clearly, I said this is bs God has never done anything for me. That was the most honest doubt I had in my life. And it was interesting I didn't say God didn't exist is that God has ever done anything for me. And then in that moment, I'm not saying I had a revelation
which would be awkward to say in a mosque but I you know when sometimes you're just have a song lyric or something comes into your mind. words came into mind. lm you did your team and for our with Jessica Dodd and Heather or Jessica elkanah did God not find you
astray as an orphan and give you shelter, a stray and guide you poor and enrich you. And then I felt this overwhelming guidance, overwhelming comfort and truth. And I felt closer to the divine than I had ever felt in my life, the most perfect moment of happiness and content. And even though I was sick as a dog for the next couple of days, I was never happier and never more energetic in my life. And I've often thought about this because those verses are talking to the Prophet alayhi salam, the God God is comforting the Prophet after a period early in his guardian, his prophethood when he hasn't received revelations for a time and he feels abandoned by God.
Mauer DACA or buka on that color guard is not abandon you in order to see disdain you took the Quran says it's coming to comfort the Prophet.
And yet here I am 1400 years later and it's the verses speaking to me in
what I can only say is the most honest moment of my life. So that was a, you know, even sometimes things that talk about the profits can speak and comfort those in later days.
There are other things in the Quran that speak to us as examples that speak to us as parables like the parable and sort of
summer I think it's number 17 about the two men who have their two gardens and one of them is garden is very rich and plentiful another man's garden isn't. And the man who's rich garden is Richard fundable said that to be to have he ever that this will never disappear. And even if I'm even if I'm brought back to my Lord, surely he'll be merciful with me. Surely I'll find something better than this garden with my Lord.
This confidence, this arrogance, and his friend, the believer whose garden is smaller says, Why don't you say Masha Allah, that Allah, Allah Buddha, Allah illa Billah, Da Vinci, this is what God is, well, there's no power and force except God.
Maybe God will give me a bigger garden than you, maybe God will destroy your garden. And surely that indeed, that's what happens to this man. So we have an example we have a parable about how we should view earthly success, earthly wealth, how we should always always understand that our life, our status, or status in this dunya is fleeting, it's entirely dependent on God, that we never earn anything that we are never sure of anything. And by the way, in that, in that understanding, we can appreciate and more deeply what we have.
So, or Sora is like 10 batches of 11 with WhatsApp got parent in the hands of Abu lahab had perished, and he will, he has perished. This, this verse, this surah can never speak about anybody else. But I will have it says this is I will have. So I haven't met anyone named I will not have in my life. But let's say I meet some guy named Abu lahab,
in theory could possibly apply to him, but it can't, because it's speaking about a specific person who's condemned to Hellfire as, as was his wife. So some verses are some even surahs. Here, they're locked into history, we can look at Abu lahab as an example, we can know what his conduct was why he failed the test of faith, and righteousness. But it can never speak to another person as a prediction, or as a rule.
And then there are
commands to the prophet of Islam
that are commands to him in particular situations, but that we can also understand as commandments. And this these verses are the, in some ways the trickiest for Muslim scholars, because they're constantly trying to understand over the over that as the years pass and situations change.
How much is this command locked into the context in which it was revealed? How much is it a universal? And if we find ourselves in situations that are analogous to those in which the Prophet found himself when these verses were revealed? Did those commands then apply to us or do they not? This is a constant challenge that Muslims scholars have that Muslims have until today.
So when the Quran says for the Salah, her shadow
hermy Allah should allow horrible
facciola Machina heighth which which had to move on, when in the beginning the first 29 verses of surah Toba surah number nine.
When the Quran says when the sacred the four sacred months have ended, then fight the most the the polytheist wherever you find them.
Is this as some Muslim scholars have held
a command for Muslims to fight unbelievers or polytheists whenever they want, or is it a command that has to be understood in the light of
the first 29 verses of sort of the Toba in which it's talking about the prophets immediate conduct in a war, that he's fighting with other groups and those groups with whom he has treaties even if they're mostly keen, that he has to abide by those treaties, but that those groups were still his enemies, he gives them four months of respect and then fights them. So these are this is the challenge Muslim scholars have had.
So what about the
that this is the way some of the ways in which the Quran speaks does can speak to some of the ways in which the Quran challenges us
to mine it for guidance.
But how are we guided in our reading of the Quran? The Quran is a book that is bound up in the life of the Prophet of Islam. It is
in in fact impossible to read without his life and his Sunnah, his precedent before our eyes. And this is something that Muslim scholars understood very early on in Islam. And they were
you know, I'm often stunned by their acuity and their intelligence, their wisdom when early Muslim scholars like a ubass FDR and he said
al Al Kitab radziwill, Asana, Minnesota illa keytab. The Book of God needs the Sunnah, more than the Sunnah needs the book of God, or as you have an abacus here, and zari early Muslim scholars also said that
the Sunnah came to govern the Quran, the Quran didn't come to govern the Sunnah. What do they mean by that? They mean that you have to understand the Quran through the Sunnah.
The Quran tells you to pray. It doesn't tell you how to pray. It doesn't tell you when to pray. It doesn't tell you how many times to pray. The prophets teachings tell us how to pray when to pray.
The Quran tells you
blood and carrion dead animals are prohibited for you who correct the son of the Prophet tells us that this doesn't apply to things that we find in the ocean, that even dead whales washed up on the seashore can be even from like the companions of the Prophet did unto an act of which he approved to these departments sadhana is explains the Qur'an it adds to the Qur'an, it affirms that
it is as one of my my teachers and as our said, it is tough to be a con man so monkey tabula, it is an infallible application of the book of God. The Sunnah is the infallible application of the book of God. And but
the lawyer, and maybe some other lawyers here who can tell you it's this is not just something this is a an understanding that Muslims had that shared that applies to really any, anytime somebody gives you directions or writes a law for you, the law has to be explained, it has to be understood.
When, for example, James Madison,
the prime writer of the Constitution, he said how should the United States said these laws, they cannot be applied, they don't really come into existence until they are debated until they are discussed until they actually have to be employed applied laws, as as on the books laws are not as an idea. laws as mere statements words on paper, they don't mean anything, until people actually try and apply them, then they need guidance, then they need to be to have these laws explained to them. That's precisely what the son of the Prophet does have a sauce to them.
Now, this leaves us with the
the challenge or the crisis of Muslims in the Sunnah. And in the modern world.
We need the son of the prophet to understand the Quran, but which son of the Prophet? How do we understand that? So now?
If I'm sure you've heard this example, before, I know my students did because I used it. But let's say Barbara,
which book did you read to teach you how to pray? Did you read a hadith to teach you how to pray?
No, know your parents probably taught you how to pray. So I actually I'm probably the only person here who actually learned how to pray from a book because my parents weren't Muslim. People know, most people here learn to pray from their parents. And their parents learn to pray from their parents and from their parents. So there's, when I say you need the son of the Prophet, to know how to pray, you could say I don't need the son of the Prophet I had my parents taught me. But there that tradition, that unbroken tradition, that living tradition, is a manifestation of the son of the Prophet.
It's a manifestation of the son of the Prophet. And there are other there are other things that are less crucial to the lives of Muslims that were also carried through tradition. For example, in, in, in Sharia law, in the Sharia, if somebody murders somebody else,
let's say, you know, somebody murders their brother,
their actual brother.
Normally, they would inherit money from their brother, they would inherit from their brothers or state as automatically from the court and in the Quran, or actually, that's not a good example. Let's say the murder there.
Their father, they would automatically inherit.
But all Muslim scholars agree throughout history. If you murder somebody, you do not inherit from them at a cost. And yet if the murderer does not inherit,
there's no reliable Hadith that says this. There's lots of heads that you find, but none of them are really so hate or even Hassan, they're very unreliable hadiths. It just happened that no one transmitted this. But all that was not understood this from the beginning of Islam until today, no one ever questioned this rule. That's another aspect of the Sunnah of the Prophet that was lived and a down generation by generation after generation by Muslim scholars by Muslims
overall. But of course,
once you get two families together, let's say they go in they, they're sitting there to have a barbecue. And one guy comes and says, This is how I barbecue meat the other guy so that's not how you barbecue meat is how you barbecue meet. People, once they separate or once they spread out throughout the world. They start disagreeing, tradition, deviates. customs are influenced by new lands and new peoples new languages, new foods and, and clothing. So the living tradition of the Muslim community might be good enough to do things like preserve how we pray.
But it always has to be kept in check by a more direct link back to the Sunnah of the Prophet lays off saddam. And that certainly has is the case with the details of our law with the details of our law, what about the specific rules of buying and selling things? What happens if two people are someone buying something and someone selling something dispute about price? What happens if they dispute about a contract they had?
Before if we're if we're told by the Qur'an that if we disagree on things, we should bring these things before God and the Prophet
before God and the son of the Prophet before they get the book of God, and the teachings of his prophet, then we need to seek out wisdom we need to seek out answers in these sources. And we won't find them in living tradition, we find them in the heads, which are reports directly transmitted from the early period of Islam, and recorded by the early generations of Muslims. People like Al Bukhari, who would like to commend Muslim Malik given an assignment have been handled and others are for South Asian brethren at the howey are hanafy. Friends.
the great problem here is that Muslims understood that many heads were not reliable many heads were made up if you want to if you had a political agenda or religious agenda, or you just like to wear certain types of clothing, or you didn't like some kinds of food, or you hated people from a certain city or you wanted to have your contracts signed in a certain way. What better way to get this than by forging a Hadeeth by putting words in the mouth of the Prophet layflat slump, the methods of heavy criticism that Muslims invented, and that you see applied in books like the Sahaba Bukhari and Sahih. Muslim, they were invented because these scholars knew how many hats were forged as one
scholar and in short by a judge who was from the city of Buster I died around 161 of the Hijri, about 773 or 774, of the Common Era. He said three fourths of the heads I've come across are forged.
three fourths of the head east I have come across or forge to do now he's two generations before or even three generations before Bukhari and Muslim.
in a modern period, have a question before them.
Which son of the Prophet do they take? Which son of the Prophet do they take?
One, the answer that is provided by the book becomes the Quran only movement is an attempt to escape this problem by saying that we don't need the son of the Prophet at all
that that debate
is too difficult to resolve. So, let us find guidance in the Quran alone.
Some early scholars who work from the client only movement in northern which started in Punjab, Punjab province in the late 1800s, early 20th century, they actually said that, you know, we don't even need to pray five times a day because the grant doesn't does not say pray five times a day. That position was a little bit controversial.
didn't go too far. Other scholars tried to come up with arguments to actually mine the Quran, read it in very specific ways to try
identify how the grant actually spells out the five daily prayers, which is, again, not very convincing.
So the crane only movement has a real problem
in its core at its core, which is that if you say you were only going to use the Quran,
then you have to
you have to abandon
things like the five daily prayers, you have to abandon things like
the way the details of the Ramadan fast, you have to abandon things like the specifics of how we do we do.
And once you do that, you've abandoned the the religion of Islam. These are things that all Muslims always agreed upon. Always. It doesn't matter if you're Shia or Sunni, doesn't matter if you're hanafy or Maliki, they always agree on the attempt to leave these practices to go outside the boundaries of Islam.
So, sometimes, I think this is a very important point to keep in mind that it's impossible to read the Quran without the Sunnah I want and it's very interesting there is no sect of Islam. Not in Sunni Islam not in shades I'm not even in smiley Shiites not even Smiley's say that the Quran should be read alone.
All these groups every sect of Muslims until the 20th century, every school of thought amongst Muslims believes you have to read the Quran through the Sunnah of the Prophet.
Then they disagree about what the Sunnah of the prophet is. If you're humble you believe it's maybe a little bit more hadiths as your Hanafi maybe you rely more on analogy in class. If you're a Miami Shia, you believe that the sun is transmitted to the Imams to 12 Imams, if you're a smiley, you believe the sun continues to be transmitted by the man made all the way up until today.
All these groups they all agree the Quran is not read on its own you cannot have the Quran only which always read through the Sunnah.
one translation actually of the Quran I found it very interesting. And I when I read it, it's by actually a Turkish scholar, but he lives in the United States. He lives in Arizona, his name is Eddie Fuchs.
And he has a translation of the crime called the reformist Trent Koran, the reformist grant. And he, he says that this is a the first Quran only translation of the Quran that doesn't rely on any heads. It doesn't rely on any tradition where you just get the wisdom of the crown alone through the Quran. And he says the author or the translator says that in order to understand the Quran, he only looks at the way that the Quran uses words in different locations. So if I don't know what the word means, in this verse, I look at other verses where the word appears and that way I understand it. And sometimes I actually appreciate but sometimes very honest, so for example, the Quran says we give
you Kota what is katha? He says, I have no idea what cathode is
because he doesn't there's no way to for him to tell
and I thought wow, maybe I've come across the first really honest Qur'an only book where this person he says, I'm only gonna use a cry and really I'm only going to use the Koran.
But then I found something
which revealed the which revealed that that the inconsistency that inevitable inconsistency that will always
trip up will reveal the weakness of the Quran on the approach in the the concept of the heart, the heart
well as well Edina,
Utah heroin, I mean comienza him now on Omaha to had to him right.
Those insert that magetta those amongst you? Who do they are, you got Helena
of their women, they are not their mothers.
this doesn't make any sense. If you're just using Arabic grammar. If you go and you look all the this verb VA Hara, you're all here to thought. If you look at all the other places in the Quran, where this word is use, it means to grant assistance to somebody.
But in this the beginning of students at magetta, it talks about those people who do the harm to their wives. They're not their mothers. And if those people who do the hearts, their wives, take their wives back then they have to free a slave.
What the heck does this mean? Imagine? Here's you've looked in all the other parts of the Qur'an looked at this verb ah header, and it only means to grant assistance or grant assistance to people.
But, and I thought maybe this translator is correct only translator will be honest, they'll say, I don't know what this means. But he didn't. He said, those people who say to their wives, you are like the back of my mother to me.
These are not their mothers.
And if you if you say this, and then you take your wife back, you have to free a slave.
So how did this
understand the meaning of the verse? He looked in Arabic dictionaries, and looked up la hora. And he said, one of the meetings is to say to your, to your wife, you're like the back of my mother to me, which is a way of the pre Islamic Arabs were divorced their wives.
And the Quran basically disapproves of this act.
So, this translator could say, but I didn't look at her deeds. I didn't look at the Sunnah of the Prophet. I haven't looked at a dictionary. The problem is, where do you think Arabic dictionaries came from?
Arabic dictionaries today come from earlier Arabic dictionaries. And earlier, every dictionaries come from the earliest Arabic dictionaries, books like keytab, and it will have 1100 and the early eight hundreds, or the work of early Muslims who went around during the early decades, the first 150 years of Islam, collecting rare words from Bedouins collecting poetry to understand the words of the Koran. And one of the things they found is this, the heart and they also had heads in which the Prophet explained what the heart meant. That it's when somebody says to their mother, your to their wife, you're like the back of my mother to me, and therefore I'm, you know, I'm repeat repudiating
guess, who transmitted the meaning of the word to the early Muslim dictionary collectors and scholars of language, the exact same people who transmitted hadiths to people like Bukhari and Matic.
So the very language that we use to understand the Quran is transmitted by the same tradition that transmits the son of the prophet to us. And if you think you can read the Koran without a dictionary,
or you think you can understand words like the har, without finding that last entry in the dictionary that explains an ancient meaning of the word, it's not used anymore, but which tells you about a custom in the time of the prophet to think you can do that without tradition. You're fooling yourself. You're not just fooling yourself, but you're actually misleading those people we are claiming to call to a freed or reformed reading of the Quran, you cannot escape
tradition, you cannot escape the need for the Sunnah of the prophet in our understanding of the Quran.
As I said earlier, and I'll end on this point, as I said earlier, Muslim scholars
have always acknowledged the need for the Sunnah.
But they've also understood that the grant speaks to us in many ways.
And that sometimes will disagree on how the Quran is speaking to us what it's saying, what the laws are. It's giving us what the rules are, it's telling us
Muslim scholars have always understood that their debates about what the Sunnah of the prophet is that we might debate whether the Prophet raised his hands when he prayed, or whether he just went down and bowed without raising his hands.
But these disagreements are minor in comparison with the great principles of the religion with its foundations, and that's why Muslim scholars going back to the amount of Shafi always said that disagreement is in the details of our law of our tradition. It's not on the in the principles, it's not on the main point. That remains the truth until today. 100 Isla de la jolla suffered