Channel: Bilal Philips
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I'm your host Kareem Abu Zaid and we come live today with another edition of Ask Imam Karim live show.
And today or tonight
or this morning or this afternoon, or this evening or this night, based on your time zone. We have a very special and dear guest. That is Dr. Bilal Philips,
all the way from Addis Ababa, where he is right now doing some work in sha Allah.
We will bring in Dr. Bilal momentarily into the broadcast.
As we welcome all of you in sha Allah, please go ahead and share and let people know about this broadcast.
We didn't have
routing because of the need to address the subject, which is the murder of George Floyd, and the aftermath. The discrimination the also the looting, and all of these issues. And no one better than Dr. Bilal Philips who's actually live with us right now. Let me bring him in. And we welcome Dr. Bilal. soleimani.
Why they come cinema to lie? How are you doing?
Here? How's it going?
How's it going?
hamdulillah baccala? fi camel is doing okay.
Yeah, I'm dilla we're here in Ethiopia. sha Allah, what's happening there?
Well, it's, um, you know, they have the lockdown. Got a couple of more months ahead, to complete it.
Otherwise hamdulillah The situation is fine. I'm just staying at home doing daily programs. On Facebook, I'm doing a class there on the 99 names, Mashallah. And,
you know, just taking a look at a local machine or virtual. But this is online on my from my Facebook page life. You know, that's daily Sharma.
Dr. Pillai. I know it's a little bit late for you there. And we want to get right to the subject.
I'm sure you, you're aware of what happened in Minneapolis a couple of years, a couple of weeks back,
are white. And again, I'm using this ratio. Just to bring things into perspective. Officer sat on an African American, by the name of George Floyd for almost 10 minutes with no reason he sat on his neck.
We can tell from the video that he was not giving him a hard time.
And George Floyd himself was calling, you know, the need to breathe and he is dying, and all of these indications of the danger of the way that the officer was sitting. And we can know from the way that he was sitting that he was having his hand in his pocket. And first of all, you know, I had a very hard time Dr. Philips myself to watch that video. You know, how did you feel about such a clip, which was almost 10 minutes? Eight and above? What is your take on this video?
Well, of course hamdulillah salat wa salam ala rasulillah. It was something terrible. It was something evil. It's very saddening, that in 2020, you know, this is going on. But it's it's basically only one in a series. I mean, there were others killed in similar fashions. We had the individual who was running, forgotten what his name is, he was shot dead, you know, by two white
Americans, they shot him dead. They claimed that he was trying to steal materials from someplace it turns out that there is no basis for it. Before that there are others and, you know, this is an ongoing thing. When when you see statistics which show that the you know, for a a young, black male in America, the major cause of death is police shootings. That tells you
Whoa, yeah, you're you're living in a in a situation where, you know, it is not a healthy situation, psychologically, you know, so many people have expressed, I've watched CNN and this, now I've expressed, you know how, you know, if you are driving a car and police stops you then you know, you don't know what's gonna happen, you know what's going to happen next, you know, as a black person, you know, you know, you, you're afraid to even reach in your pocket and take out whatever they're asking for, you know, you get shot, and they say, Well, he was reaching for something, I mean, it's just so much of that still, you know, you know, present. And it's something which is very saddening,
but it is the nature, they say, the nature of the beast, a lot of what America become, you know, is
a free hand given to policemen very little, you know, checking on what happens when, you know, people get killed, you know, the policeman is always right. I mean, you know, he, he will go out of their way to ensure and to protect him, you know, closing the wagons this day, you know, this day, they will look after their own, they make sure that they're taken care of, to avoid that. So very, you look at the number of policemen who have been convicted of, you know, I've never been, you know, citizens, whether black, white, or anybody else, you know, it's so low, when we compare it to the number of people are being killed, that, you know, it's really a travesty of justice now. So there's
no doubt that the situation is not good. And it's not surprising that the response has been so great.
I lived through the 60s as I was a teenager back in the 60s, when,
you know, so I mean, I was there. I mean, I know it, I had gone to the States, I was in the States. So I've been through that period already. And I've seen it, you know, and, you know, of course, the destruction, the looting, the writing, and all of that, you know, it's something which, of course, is not good. It's not healthy. A lot of people are suffering because of it, etc. But the point is that, you know, America was born with a riot,
you know, the Boston Tea Party, that they speak about,
you know, it was a riot. It was a protest. That's how America was born. So this has been the tradition, you know, as one of the people from the 60s said, violence is as American dairy by law, what
a profound way to, to express it, you know, but talking about this, you know,
we know the rulings regarding protests and demonstrations. They come from jurists, or scholars who live
in a Muslim world, we know that there are some scholars who, especially the scholars who come from the Arabia, they, you know, thought will I mean, well, he will hammer on all of this. They say no, and they, they, we we live in America here and we have this million dollars questions, which we don't have the million dollars, but we hope that you can answer. What is the ruling on protest,
exclusive to America to the west. I'm not talking about you know, Muslim countries, and we can discuss I'm talking about living here. This is a lawful means
to enjoin, good and forbid evil.
Can you give us your insight on this, because there are conflicting fatwas on this subject, please.
Yeah, as you said, Dr. Karim, as you've said, there is a difference between a Muslim state where
revolt and rebellion is
rejected completely and what leads to rebellion, you know, would also be also rejected.
And a state like the United States and in countries in the West, which permit protest
as a means of expressing one's opinion. So, it is it because of the fact that it is legal in the country to do so. And it's not legal to burn into loot and nobody's saying that's legal, but we're talking about is marching in the streets with black cards, expressing with microphones, expressing one's displeasure or one's opinion etc, etc, this has been going on in America, you know, since its inception. So, this is not for Muslims to be a part of this to be engaged in it is legitimate in the North American context, you know, but of course, as I said, with the reservation that you know, they be a part of those who also help to stop the looting and all this if it starts to, to happen, you
know, that that is something which is coming along with it each time. So, one has to be prepared to be a part of, of the solution and not be just a part of the problem, right? Just stand back silently, while people go ahead or to move away and let them go ahead and commit crimes, then. Okay, you now carry the burden of having not prevented what you could have absolute, Dr. Bill
Zeller, the subject is related to race and, and colors and all of this, I really want to discuss this in our Islamic domain first, I testify I live in America, that we do have race issues in our Islamic centers in our own Muslim communities.
reverts are not
given their due right there is a
cultural divide not religious divides.
So many times I hear it from reverts who say we thought that we found our family and and there is that split, they feel that border is placed between them and the Arabic speaking the order speaking.
How can we as imams address this issue in our lectures in our talks?
And then, as members of the community? How can we address this issue before we go to the our larger community, and talk about race? And how can we deal with it and how Islam can offer solutions?
Well, I think that, you know, what has happened is that
the feelings of
tribalism, nationalism, racism, which is a, just an expression of this, these feelings are from Satan. First and foremost, you know, who was the first to say,
no, no, he is the he is the leader of this whole tribalism, you know, racism, nationalism, and those things that are connected with it, you know, which Islam opposed tooth and nail, Mohammed spoke about it on his show, that catches pageant. He spoke about it in so many occasions where it popped its head up, I will daughter called
Bilal yajna soda.
Tell JD Yeah. You know, in football, I was I that was just such a massive blow, he dropped on the ground, put his head on the ground and refused to walk over it. So
you know, if there is such a thing as a
that was him, he thought he was, you know, no one to just not try to hold anything of this dunya. But, you know, that element was there. This is something they inherited, you know, from generations that people had this attitude. So this doesn't go away, just simply because we say we're Muslim. So the point is that as the Imam, that cetera, people this has to be, you know, a part of the educational process. Now that people have to go through this and to understand it, and to build relationships. And it's the same thing when I was in mom there in Toronto for one year back in 19 2012 2012.
You know, I could see these elements
there and you know, whether it was Somalis complaining about others, or it was, you know, others complaining about Somalis or you know, so these elements, you know, were there, you know, as well as black Converse, etc, complaining, you know, because
it's just, this is the world we live in now a world which has been dominated by Europe, when Europe
gained control over the rest of the world dominated it, it promoted its own values and its own, you know, culture, etc, etc. So the rest of the world growing up under this umbrella, it's not surprising that they have been affected by it. So we have to work with our communities
to systematically remove this from the heart, you know, by bringing people together, having, you know, breakfast together in different people's homes, and, you know, helping to, to
bring a greater closeness, you know, and especially for the new Muslims to look out for them, to try to protect them, you know, from these elements, which can cause them to be with them very easily as quickly as they can.
Just a quick announcement, brothers and sisters in Islam now we're going to open the floor for you. You can call us three or three the phone numbers shown on the screen right now. 303-500-5101 on the top of the screen, please give us a call 303-500-5101 you can actually ask your question live. Dr. Bilal, we'll hear you.
Also, you can email your question if you feel more comfortable with that info at our cmcc.org jacumba lokalen. If you can give us a call in Sharla.
Malcolm X Malik Shabazz, a famous Muslim
in history of America, not just the history of Islam.
He was cultivated also, his upbringing in a very racial culture. When he went to Hajj he made that statement Islam offer solution to the subject to the issue of race.
I do have a caller, Dr. Bilal, if you allow me Solomonic McFly. barakato.
Brother, not the father, can you speak up please? Brother of the Father from St. Louis, Missouri. Why do you come set up? Do you have a question for Dr. Bill Phillips?
the best thing to do is to get enrolled in schools that are not clear or take to the
to the scholars waitlist until the answers come back.
or whatever else.
Can you identify the nature of the fitna here what the fitna of joy for example.
Got you guys.
clear, clear barakallahu Li, Dr. Bilal. He's asking. We know that the Hadith in obese or solemn regarding the fitna, the one who's setting is better than the one who's standing, the one who's standing is better than one who's walking riding. So is it better in a situation like this to go and protest and get involved and try to make a change? Or is it better to?
Would that be considered a context of this hadith?
Well, I would say that, you know, historically, whenever circumstances arose of this nature,
there were some who chose to stay back and stay away. While there were others who chose to be involved, trying to command the good and private the evil to the degree that they could. So as I would not blame anybody who didn't take parts who said, I prefer to just stay in my own. We got COVID-19. That's enough.
That's enough to deal with, you know, and we emphasize and synthesize and you don't want to just do it.
from home, that's quite legitimate option. But for those who choose also to engage themselves and of course, you know, it needs to be with, of course, proper Islamic decorum, you know that it's done
in the way which we know is pleasing to Allah, another way, which is displeasing to Allah, that, but to have ourselves presence, to have our presence felt is also important. Because otherwise we, we are the minority in America, who becomes the target, when they are finished with the other targets? They always come back to us.
If we expect the others to come in, when we come under it, we shouldn't do it is, then you see, so it's like something you have to wait, the benefits and the harm. You know, if you see the harm becomes greater than the benefit, then of course, you are worried. But if you see that there is a potential benefit, there is an opportunity for dialogue, it's an opportunity to give the Islamic voice to have a presence that people can hear, you know, because, you know, we are the ones that that you know, have been the brunt of, you know, these last four years of, you know, Trump's rule.
Yeah, no. So, Dr. Pillai in that context, a lot of the people criticize us as imams as community leaders. Oh, guys, when there is something happening in Burma, and that will hunger, in philosophy in in Pakistan, in Kashmir, we hardly hear you. But you only speak up when there is,
you know, something that of that nature, why you don't talk about your Muslim commune larger Muslim community. Basically, they are rebuking us for participating and,
and stopping injustice locally, when we are not engaged universally, in our larger community. How do we respond to that? Or is that a valid argument?
Well, of course, I mean, I can't speak for everybody, you know,
the reality is that supporting what is distant, is always going to be much more difficult than supporting what is immediate and in your presence, you know, your sphere of influence, what can you do in America, to change the situation in Palestine, and Burma, you know, or, you know, Myanma virtually nothing. Your voice is like, you know, a voice in the darkness. nobody hears it, it's finished. You know, whereas in your immediate circumstance, where you say something over a bullhorn or whatever, people hear you, there is changes and the effect that can take place. So it's natural, that we are going to be more active and be more involved when we're dealing with issues that are
right in our face.
Trying to hold your thoughts color your life and American
Sell Amari Cooper, name, state and question please. What are you calling from please?
And I'm calling from New Jersey Cherry Hill. Okay. I want you to know
you know, so you guys know that are very big. A mom got killed by America by
Trump. We are we are the last week or two weeks ago. And America been in our country for so many years and they're killing all these moms. I never see any of you guys talk about that. No.
All he said was my car is dead. America is dead and dead bill him into must. Okay, got your sister buttons here.
Go Go and I want to just want to make sure that you guys are safe. I love your show. I love all the people you bring to talk but please be safe because Trump does not love anybody that says that talking about him or his
presidency. Clear. Just
Just like a Lakota since I've been as you you will come does that a low cut him a lot he would you again, it's the same idea.
But he pointed out one particular that actually the killing of one, again, you know, I think I voice
I come in, you know, your, your, your answer is profound that what can we do from here? But you know, do you want to comment on SR one or zero point did you hear her says, Dr. Black?
Well, I heard in general what you were saying, you know, but and of course, whenever, you know, Muslims suffer anywhere in the world, you know, we are supposed to be like one body, you know, where,
whenever there is suffering anywhere, we all feel sympathy, empathy for it. And something should be said, but realistically speaking, marching in the streets of America, for what's happening in Afghanistan, or when I'm trying to turn because, you know, Americans are directly involved. But in my anmar, as I said, you know, or, you know, other places where,
you know, people from America not directly involved, it is halfway around the world, marching in the streets in America will do very little, you know,
organizing and going to the embassies of these countries, etc. Notice to stay out to do something, there's no harm, this is a legal protest, etc. And where we can do something, then something should be done, inshallah. Dr. Bilal, a very controversial issue now, in in America, you have hinted in, I think, a couple of minutes ago that we need to come in support of oppressed minority groups living in the West.
Because it's going to be our turn soon, and you want them to help you as well. We have certain groups without you know, naming.
How far can we go?
groups, which we do, we do not agree with their
ideology, and I hope you know what I'm talking about here. Yeah. Yeah. Understood. Okay.
So we have a limit, we have a limit. Yeah. You know, if, if a group say you have a you have a religion, for example, in, in America, it's called the Church of Satan. Okay, you may not know about it, but it does exist. They have a Satan's Bible and everything, you know. So if the Church of Satan, you know, calls for support, you know, for people to rally with?
Hey, sorry, we can't join this one. Regardless of what they're doing to you.
We can't be a part of that, because of what you said and what is so contrary to what we believe in. So, you know, everybody's going to have their limits, and we have to operate within the limits, which sherea you know, accept. Just
Okay, we go back to the subject of race.
I, before the questioners, the callers, Malcolm X, what can we do as a Muslim community to help raise and as Muslims in America here? What can we do to be
elements of change?
Why depends on the position that we're in, in in those people who are in positions of government, you know, you know, Senate tours or whatever, obviously, they're able to affect greater influence than the people who are the average, you know, Muslim, who has no political influence, but we can write articles, we can, you know, get on talk shows.
There's a lot of room for input from from our side, but, of course, again,
the media, you know, is most
responsive and accepting, when it's, you know, controversial issues that they can sell newspapers with, or get viewers on their TVs, programs, etc. So we have to understand the nature, you know, of the situation. But there is a lot that we can say and do and in
Within the context of Tao, it becomes our means of power. Because when we address these matters, we should be addressing it from an Islamic perspective. You know, Islam should come in there somewhere somehow, you know, it shouldn't just be
that particular issue, and nothing of Islam is mentioned. Our presence should be a Muslim presence, where it is appropriate. We have a question, or should there be specific effort to address racism and machines? Or should each individual find comfort from the Quran? And the Sunnah? Again, I think he's repeating the question that I asked you a minute ago that
are the master. I mean, they I mean, they are the leadership of a community. So they should set the tone and the approach, whether it is regular hotbeds in which issues that involve rates are raised, or whether it is programs and unlike when in Toronto, as I said, you know, brothers, every Sunday morning, when people were able to after fudger
have breakfast in the masjid together, all the brothers would come sit down, and bring up whatever issues that are there allow people to meet each other become build relationships, you know, also, they should be, you know, facilitating such gatherings in which Muslims can get to meet each other and get to know each other, you know, because, of course, the issues of racism, as you mentioned, in the beginning, it's not just in the ultra community, although it is forbidden in Islam and the Robert Ludlum attacked it you know, full on, straight on the adopted,
you know, you know, dropping because it is rotten rice disease, you know, so, the problem was very clear about it, and he himself, you know, broke the those mores by, you know, taking away from, from Egypt, and, you know, burying Sophia from Jewish background, and, you know, this, you know, he broke the clan ism and the, and the tribalism by his own actions. So, we should be reminding each others of it, and this is what I told the community actually there in, in,
in a Toronto, that, you know, really, we should make an effort
to have our children, those of you that are coming, you're on the front line of the masjid, every fighter you're there, you know, humbling that you're there for the gatherings on Sundays, whatever. Now, you brothers, who better to marry your daughter, or to marry your son to
now you're caught up in a thing where you're your brother's, your brother, or your sister or somebody, your relative wants you to marry their children. You know, and this has been the tradition, this intermarrying within families, to the point where, you know, people are suffering from genetical issues. So, you know, we need to break that,
that clan ism, you know, that we are family, we just married, you know, our cousins. When we married, you don't marry outside of your cousin? No, we need to break that. Who do you want? This is the man who's standing next to you at fudger every day, you know, he fears the law, can you believe that his son or his daughter feels a lot like him, then this is the one you should want your son or daughter to marry? You know, we have to think like this, to overcome this disclaimer, and cultural,
you know, nationalism that exists amongst them. We have to take practical steps absolutely very well. Not to be that.
An issue is that I really I need to explain it to you, and I'm sure you'll relate to it.
When situations like this occur, we have different campaigns to face or to stop the injustice. One of the campaigns which we have now and it's rooted Black Lives Matter.
That slogan, then you'll find these brothers
coming in with that, you know, you know, they just pick what is that what that is not this, you know, all lives matter, you know?
Let's broaden this. And I think you mentioned the example that we may bring up our race or our language or our color in a positive way. Like you mentioned that breakfast.
You know, the National you bring in your African food I bring in my Egyptian food. That's okay. You're Pakistani food. That's fine. It is. Like the prophets of Solomon, he wanted his companions to dig the trench he actually broke them up into
immigrants Mohajer in Ensenada and we know that issue of sell man, where does he fall into? But yet when when it came to dividing us, like the example you mentioned, he said that we'll have an aha
moment Montana. So how can we strike a balance between these slogans out there, like Black Lives Matters only black lives? And and where is the ground here? Where is the boundary? I hope you understand my point. Yeah, I understand. I mean, in this particular instance, you know, as you said, All lives matter. You know, and, and that's what Islam is about. It's about all lives, all human beings. But in this instance, you know, we have a particular problem in America, you know, where black lives don't matter. All other lives do matter. But if a black life is lost, it doesn't make any difference, it doesn't matter. So because of that, by emphasizing Black Lives Matter, you're
trying to deal with a particular problem. It doesn't mean that when they say, oh, if I say no black lives matter, it means that white lives don't matter.
It doesn't go to the opposite. It just means that at this moment in time,
the problem has reached the level where the country is inflamed.
And though it is not something which Islam supports, looting, burning, and all these other kinds of things, nor, you know, Western society in general, of course, they look at this is all bad, it's, it's destructive. It's whatever, all of that is true. But at the same time, America doesn't seem to respond, except to circumstances like this, right? You know, when we, when the cities were burning in the 16th, York, Chicago, Washington, all the big cities across the country, were on fire at that point in time, then change occurred. Up until then, you know, people have been, you know, marching, Martin Luther King assassinated this one, right dogs set on
me, when that happened, that is our that we have to fix it. So it's the same thing. Now, you know, the country. And now because of the media, it's gone, even up to Canada is gone to the UK, it's gone into, you know, into Europe, into France, and Germany, and across the world, of course, in Africa there already. But you know, so it's spread all over because of media. It's not that the problem is a new problem. It's just the media has now made it bigger and bloated up. You know, but the reality is that, unfortunately, America does not respond until it reaches this stage. This is what it takes. You know, it's unfortunate, we don't like it is not something healthy, etc. But the system until
it's property, because you see, this is the point, you know, this is the materialistic society. So, you know, when you're talking problems, we can talk problems from now until, you know, kingdom come as they say, you know, the end of the world. But now when you start burning my property, you know, I'm starting to lose financially. We've got COVID-19 and all the problems that have come from and also you're burning down our shops, you know, then that is going to make people we need to correct this. We need to fix this. Look what happened in terms of, you know, the officer, how long it took those was supposedly a short time it took before that white officer was arrested. And the initial
charge was third degree manslaughter. You know, it wasn't until you know more
demonstrations and things happen that file okay not only need to get a plot prosecutor that prosecutor brings up upgrades is charged to to second degree murder and the other three of them in Oppo.
Unfortunately, that is how the country responds, you know, and until until they respond differently, then this is going to repeat itself again. Dr. Bilal.
One of the I think the Minneapolis, Minnesota, I'm trying to remember my brother, he's he's a Muslim Attorney General.
I don't remember his and he's a Muslim, revert
the subject of voting
a big issue here. And you know,
what, what is your take on voting? living in the United States? Again, I'm not talking about, you know, the Muslim world, I'm talking about minority group living here in the US. And
this is one way to bring in the right people who understand, you see that the argument of one group, but and the other one understand our position and our issues. But on the other hand, you're legislating You know, it will help more or less the law? No, and we don't need to explain it.
Please help us out? You know, we know we're bringing you for the tough stuff, you know, and that's why we have you here today.
Well, you know, my position on this, you know, is
based on from what I've understood from what I understood from the lectures of Jagannatha, Barney, I used to sit in his classes in the Medina. And, you know, he defended that concept, concept of preventing the greater evil,
you prevent the greater evil, if you don't vote, and the greater evil comes, you can only blame yourself.
If you vote to in order to prevent that greater evil, that candidate who you know, this guy is anti muslim is this is darker than the other if he when he's going to make your life hell,
and you don't vote to try to stop him from coming in, you cannot blame anyone but yourself. If you
if he comes in, he does what you expected him to do to you. So I'm in favor of voting, where there is an issue of
greater and lesser evil, as far as we can determine if there is no greater or lesser evil, etc, then we don't need to get ourselves involved in in that, but you know, we have a problem with this stuff, too. That the people who promote this approach, which is like you mentioned, justified, they consider the others who do not participate
completely wrong. And you know, they should be removed from the equation basically, that they still have a valid ground that they don't want to participate in.
Bring in legislation other than the hochma the legislation of Allah subhanaw taala. Is it fair also to leave them alone? If they don't want to do it then? Or
a situation of choice? But I would say to those brothers, Brother, what are you doing in America?
What are you doing there? You know, if you are not prepared to take the steps necessary
to ensure your survival as a Muslim community, then it is better for you to be in a Muslim country. You can go to another Muslim country. You know, for example, the Gambia, you know, I spent some time in the Gambia This is 95% Muslim.
You can go there. You if you vote you're voting for a Muslim ruler, the Sharia is implemented. It's on the books there. You know, you can go somewhere else, you know, no, it's better for their doctor blood fielder thoughts walaikum salam name stayton question, please.
With a brother Atilla from Toronto, Canada you have a question for Dr. Bilal.
Yes, please go ahead. It's regarding our, okay. here in Toronto, we have three festivals.
So somehow we got disconnected brother Atilla, please give us a call back inshallah.
Go ahead, Dr. Blood. I'm sorry, we we lost Dr. Brother Latina from Toronto, Canada. But
yeah, I was just saying that, you know, of course, we have to respect the rights of Muslims to choose what they feel is most correct for them. And that's what I was going to ask them about. Because in their heart of hearts, they felt that, you know, that this is, in fact, an act of disbelief, or corruption, you know, or, you know, whatever, who,
if they felt that in their heart, then of course, they have to follow their heart. Because that's what a lot of winter ask them about. So we are
making that choice, but I'm just saying, as I would give them advice, rather, you know, you want to live in a community where you can contribute completely, or to the maximum degree, then it's better to be in a Muslim land. That's what I would say, you know, Hendra, that term Qatar ninja habitat and Toba hedger will not end until Toba repentance, and an adobo doesn't end until the sun rises in the West. This is what the process unfolded, you know. So we have to think this thing out properly. If we're serious, then be about supporting God's Muslim countries with the skills that Americans have Muslims in America have, the skills that they have, that they've gained because of education, etc,
etc. It could be a great benefit to Muslim countries now. So my advice is, you know, go and help you Muslim Brothers, where you can do everything to the maximum, this is my advice, but at the same time, I respect their right to, to not participate, etc. But also they should respect the rights of those who feel that given the circumstances is the legitimate choice. jakka lucky, Dr. Glover, can we please we still have like another 20 minutes,
the subject of food.
And that's actually how we announced and advertised our event today. Islam came to protect five necessities, the religion to begin with,
then the human, the sanctity of the human life, and this is just the Muslim human, but the human. And that's where George Floyd is.
Basically, if this officer would have known, and the depth of his heart, the retribution of his act, I think he would have thought about it.
But because of the manmade laws, and like you mentioned, because of the pressure, they got him from third degree to first degree and you know,
and what is your take? Is it the proper time now to, to represent
the word ceria?
Oh, dude, again to America that listen, that's what is your take on?
That conversation? Is better in the masjid?
They already banned Sharia in 21. I think all states, you know, without the people even knowing what God means. So, you know, we don't need to get into that conversation. But there's no doubt it's clear, you know, that where the where the Sharia is implemented, where it is strong, then the likelihood of such acts become small. Now, so as application becomes few and far between. So there is no doubt that it is superior, but it can only be acceptable in an in a country or in a society or a community that
everybody or the majority of people agree
where they can actually make law. But if we're not in a situation where we can make a law, etc, then we have to function
Under the existing laws within society and avoid breaking them as much as possible.
I'm going to come to this question again. And again, I'm sorry, I'm putting you on the spot here.
You're far away. You're in this Ababa, you know, I'm here in the middle of America, I'm in Denver, Colorado, the issue of slavery
and Islam position, a lot of people don't realize that when Islam came,
slavery was in existence. And Islam in a way, offered the, you know, the way out of it, but they don't realize, basically, they expected Islam to come in and say, okay, no more slavery, everyone is free. They don't understand that.
Those people who own those individuals, even though we don't, we don't condone that they paid money, they actually show that they must release them also in a in a way that they don't lose their
weight. Because Because we have two approaches here what know Islam doesn't talk about race, slavery, Islam, no, but if you look at the text, you cannot deny that that slavery yet continue it a while after, but it offered the way out of that. Where do we balance our approach here in America as a mams? Regarding the subject, you know, you don't want to look like you bro slavery, and at the same time, you don't want to compromise the religion. So please.
Well, I would say that, you mentioned that when Islam came in its final form, slavery already existed in Arabia.
I would say slavery existed everywhere in the world.
You can find a society that did not slaves. It was something which existed from Allah knows when. So this is reality of the world. Slavery exists. So what happened in the country where they banned slavery altogether? Okay, they have been canceled. forbidden in America, UK, Europe, countries that were the main slavery, you know, promoting and built themselves on slavery.
they canceled it altogether. But guess what? slavery today is far more in these countries than it ever was.
Go about 400 years ago, you know, and you compare to today, the number of people who are enslaved around the world is far more many times more than those who existed at that time. So slavery is not been eradicated. Yeah. On the books, they put it on the book. Yes, it is forbidden. It's illegal. It is this and that, but it is still going on. All the countries North America, South America, Europe, Africa, Asia, everywhere. It's still going on. So what is it?
What is it is that except rules, rules for slavery, that
basically turn what was originally a slave into what they call an indentured labor.
He stuck with you, you're stuck with you.
Okay, but he is working for you. You provide its food you provide his clothing, if you're not allowed to make him work more than he can handle, you know, overburden him and all that you're not allowed to snap in between classes here cannot with nose do anything. All of that has been banned completely. Okay. So,
eventually, the slavery would
diminish and diminish until it no longer had placed in the society because of the system that was there to
And with the government Zakah and other institutions, in the Islamic system, for you know,
when a person wants to pay penance for doing this or that they free a slave, you know, so many
alternatives there. So we know that the systems were there to decrease it gradually, and the expiation for the Sydney's different sins great. Yeah. Yeah. So so this is the point. So this is why
It is not surprising in Islamic history, you know that people who are slaves became, or sons of slaves that became rulers, they became leading scholars, they, you know, they fulfilled all of the different positions which were open to people who are free. So we can see this reality. But of course, whenever societies
stray from Islam, then those institutions can become corrupted, and the rise of the evil form will take place. So this is, the more of Islam that is there, the less
the less of Islam, the more for me, that's just how
life works. And this remains as an as a as an option for prisoners of war, in times of war, to help to absorb them into the society. And this is what it means all the places that Muslims conquered, etc, they ended up becoming one with the people there.
You know, they intermarried and all these different things took place. And that's how Islam had moved forward. So reality, as you said, is that Islam does not prohibit slavery outright.
Neither will you find it in Christianity.
It is not in any of the texts of the Torah, that are supposed to be the Torah or whatever ideas that were supposed to be in general, but you know where they aren't. But in any case, the point is that it doesn't exist. So because this is a reality that societies have lived with, from time immemorial. But
each one has a responsibility. And it is the Muslim society, duty to look after all levels of the society. And that's why Muslims were able to function even with the existence of slavery on a low level within the societies, but they didn't turn into enslaving nations, and building themselves on those enslaved nations. It never took that form. That form was European slavery.
Dr. Bilal, recently, in that video, we saw four officers. One of them did the actual murder of George Floyd.
But the three were standing.
You know, and we know that Islam promotes
also Africa volume, an album of Luma eight your brother, whether he is an oppressed or whether he is an oppressor
That's what the man said. And it's a habit that we understand, aiding him when he is when he being oppressed. But what is he the oppressor?
Right. So the and these three officers did not do anything, but lately, I just found out yesterday that they were actually were charged. So some people find this, there are a lot of talk, they didn't do anything, why did you charge them again, the but this is an Islamic principle that you were there, you should have done something about it, and you didn't do it, right. And even in western law, even though the law of the country of the US that are the policeman, you know, if your colleague is doing something against the law, then you are supposed to stop him, you're supposed to intervene. You know, one of them was a Filipino, one of the four was a Filipino, and they focused on
him because of course, he must have suffered, like he suffered, you know, as a minority, brown person from, you know, another part of the world, he must have suffered also, but you know, the pressure on him in terms of, you know, not supporting because, as I said, they, they support each other. When somebody is doing wrong, rather than stopping him, they rally with him. And he doesn't want to feel left out. So maybe he just stood back. But actually, there were other pictures of the three when it's had all four of them with their knees on him. So they didn't just stand the whole time. There were some shots which were taken from the other side of the vehicle, which showed them
also with their knees on him. So they participated. It wasn't just that
So international Open University now is Islamic Islamic online university is now international Open University.
But if you go if you google International, Islamic Open University, you still get.
I mean, both domains are here, right? Darling? Yeah. Because a lot of people aren't familiar with the Islamic Open University in. And I had a short conversation before the show with you regarding some of the works you're doing in the financial,
you know, we really need that, you know, people want to own their homes and usury and all of that Islamic banking. And can you update us on what is happening there, please?
what we have sort of initiated here in Addis Ababa in Ethiopia, is an Islamic Institute for Islamic banking and finance. It's not an institute meaning it's a bank of, you know, some sorts, it is a, it's an academic Institute. So we are training bachelor's degrees in Islamic banking and finance, Masters as well as PhDs we are trying to establish here in Ethiopia, because it's up a year ago, opened up the country to Islamic banking for the first time in their history. So Alhamdulillah, there's a big need a big surge for this, we want to be in the forefront. There are no schools teaching Islamic banking and finance in the country at all. So we are there normally, they're sent
sending their their students overseas to Malaysia, etc, in order to London, you know, to Egypt, to study banking. So Alhamdulillah, because this country has, you know, closed 5050 odd million people, Muslims, there are million Muslims, total population is over 100 million. So they, you know, the population of Muslims is sufficient, that, you know, we should establish an institution here, which can serve the continent, because we have a huge population here, you know, over 1 billion people, 1.4 billion people, you know, and the need is, is rising, the increasing the number of institutions are coming up, they don't have the kind of restrictions that you know, you find in America, which
makes it very difficult, but you all in America should keep working on it pushing Yes, because England did it in the UK, which is the father of America, you know, they were able to do it in spite of all the issues.
in England, and these parts of the world that people kept up to the principles of Islam, that let's find an Islamic solution for the problem. But over here in America, we get these jurists who come in, oh, just go ahead and buy your house mortgage, it's okay. It's permissible, it's a necessity and, and and they just compromise then they, the people feel there is no need to come up. I always use this example of of Hillel.
That'd be Hamid, according to the Hanafi school of thought, and the other school of thoughts like shafia you know, they are very lenient on this. But the Hanafi that's why we have all these Halloween stores because of these
Indian Pakistani brothers who really believed in you know, and the fact that they must eat the Bihar that's why we came likewise here in America, unfortunately, you have all these institutions that offer semi, not really Islamic.
It's a fake Islamic and and that's the problem that we have here, unfortunately.
So Allah make it easy for you and
inshallah, I think as people become more and more aware of the options and the they see the rise of Islamic banking,
I mean, you have in Harvard University, you have a chair for Islamic Finance, now, Kindle, what do you need after that? Really? It should be that should be functional in the country. And Charlotte's almost ledger Dr. Phillips ally and I you know, I enjoy being with you. I wish I you know, I can
inshallah, soon join you.
Here for your hospitality when I spent three days I think, in Qatar in Doha in your house, it was your blood, I mean, and May Allah give you May Allah protect you adoptable as we can, you know, education, you know, I believe is the way to go you know, and you have
taken that mission of educating the Muslim community about Islam And may Allah subhanho wa Taala make all of this in your scale, in the Day of Judgment, and all of those who are helping your institution are blind. I mean, you want to give final advice, you know, to the viewers, we have a lot of people watching, and a lot of people will watch this.
During this COVID-19, then the George Floyd protests in the looting and just the general advice for us as Muslims, you know, keeping the faith and one final advice from you to, to me personally and to the rest of the congregation here inshallah?
Well, I would just say that, of course, the key is taqwa. No, this is what is obviously going to save us I'll communicate, that we implement, we grow into war, by keeping a law, always in our conversations, in our plans, in our businesses, in our
whole life, that we keep a lot here in the compensation, that this is the only way forward, the more we're able to do that, the more we're able to, to have like thinking, you know, and will be prepared to make the kind of sacrifices necessary in order to establish Islam there in the West. And I do feel that the issue of Israel is still a valid principle that, you know, from way back in the day,
I did a lecture in New York and not to taqwa called the obligation of hedra. Back in 1990, the three the three institutions,
you have to build three institutions for you to stay where you are, I remember this.
Mashallah, so the point that I will be going into the details of it, but the bottom line is that, you know, we need to establish, we need to be in communities, because living as I used to call it, in our Little House on the Prairie Islam, you know, there's a show which needs to be on television, about a Little House on the Prairie, which was isolated from everybody. We can't live like that. as Muslims, we are a community. Islam is a religion, and a community. And the only way to do it is for us to come together. So even if you are in Colorado, you know, the Muslims of Colorado should be around the masjid, you know, the master should be surrounded by Muslim families. So that, anytime
anything happens in America, which, you know, involved, Muslims, and Americans get angry, and they come rushing, they will think twice, before running into try to burn down our Masjid, or break the windows. But because we end up putting the masks in one place, and we're living all over the place, anything that happened with the broken panes is put on there, you know, pig's heads are thrown inside the doors, all kinds of things happen to us, because we don't have the masjid at the heart of the community. You know, it should be the heart of the community. And we surround and we protect it, as it protects us. That I think that people need to rethink this, you know, and to try to bring the
community together, and so that we can better live Islamic lives within the context of North America. Does that the last one? Just to remind
the question that Dr. Bilal presented in this particular lecture. Should I do Hey, Joe,
what's your question that you guys ask us all the time? He said, as long as you establish these three functioning institutions where you live, you can stay. He mentioned the family, the Muslim home, he mentioned the masjid and then the education the Islamic school. I remember that very well. Dr. Bilal, almost ledger jack. Hello, Phil. And I love you gentlemen. I love to talk to Milan I mean, and stay safe and keep me in your dryer as well and we asked a lot to unite us
on the righteous ness and the piety.
May Allah subhanho wa Taala protect you and bring you hopefully one day to America insha Allah so that you can visit us here inshallah.
inshallah, Allah bless you and bless your community. I mean, and other people who
Our viewing following this program we ask Allah to strengthen your faith strengthen your practice and inshallah keep us all together working for the Islam and may die inshallah true Muslims. I mean, I mean, Zach I love his brothers and sisters in Islam and you'll be half I want to thank Dr. Blood Phillips for being there with us today. It's quite late there so just say hello Phil and I'll get him out of line. I mean