Prenups, Andrew Tate and Gold Diggers
Channel: Bilal Dannoun
File Size: 101.21MB
Give me that support.
Sales. All right.
All right. Let's get the ball rolling Scheffler. Thank you so much for coming.
I'll be the first one meeting you. And I think all of a sudden, we're actually meeting you
flying down to Sydney just to meet you. I did some searching on you. And I knew you'd before the podcast, or not in person, and a few googling asked a couple of podcasts with you, and you always known as love doctor, right? And I'm sure you get that a lot. And I'm sure you're bored of it by now. But my question to you is, how did you get that name? Like, what is your CV to get that title? You know, how are you married, how many kids you have, how many wives you have right now, how many times you've been divorced, and you must have this extensive CV, to get the total to share with us that? Well, I have been around for quite a long time in Sydney. And especially in the space of Dawa
being one of the first English speaking dairies in Sydney
during the time that they were very few,
you know, preachers or activists who spoke in the English language. And so that sort of kick started things for me, even though I pretty much started off in the space of, you know, filk and salah. And then moving on to, you know, all sorts of topics that are related to Islam. I was an Arabic teacher, I compiled a book called Arabic reading made easy. I did courses on different areas of jurisprudence,
and then saw,
you know, that, hey, I could probably do well in the space of marriage.
When I saw another celebrant, and interestingly that celebrant spoke English, and interestingly that celebrant, may Allah have mercy upon him, he married off my parents. And then later on, he married off me. Right. So when I used to see this celebrant and Imam, I said, Wow, what a job that this guy has, he gets to go around and just married people often say nice things and have all this dessert and sweets. It's fun.
And then I go, and he gets paid for it. And it's dour. I go, You know what I want to be in this space. I think this is a good space, you can interact with people from all walks of life. So then I started to just really focus on all things marriage, and
you know, between being a celebrant, and then marriage counseling, and then divorce facilitation.
And subhanAllah I really found that to be very beneficial, because in my space of work, I get to interact with many different cultures.
Interestingly enough, my the people, the Muslims that I interact with are not primarily Arabs, even though I'm Lebanese, myself of Lebanese background, but I found that I'm gravitating a lot towards the non Arabs because they are the ones who are looking primarily for an English speaking Imam. So whether it's the Afghans, the Bangladeshis, believe it or not, one of my biggest clientele is the Bangladeshis. And, you know, they they're ready to give me citizenship
in Bangladesh, so yeah, that's pretty much you know, how it started. And then, you know, you have a few of the Close Brothers, you know, crack a joke and say, hey, the love doctor, it gets around and, and, you know, and that's sort of more or less how the journey began. And that's now been about 22 years. You've had that title. 20 years, probably close to that. It's, it's, you know, I guess not everybody knows that title. But, but yeah, that's how long it's that's how long I've been in the space for sure. I mean, I mean, marketing, right? And I feel like you should rebrand yourself to the actual love doctor, trademarks. And
I'm telling you, it's all about branding, right?
Make a killing. To boy. It's all about marketing, right? If you market yourself and loved nothing, you should go places, even bigger places. I appreciate the insha Allah and tip.
One thing I've always wondered about in the marriage space. So I'm married, got two kids. And you find you come across a lot of people who,
let's say they're dating, then let's say an and Islamically, unsanctioned relationship, and they speak to people around them as Okay, well, we're how do we go about this? What's the next step and everyone's
Have the stocks and responsibility we will give is you have to have qualified make it Hello, just get married. That's it. That's the that's the net natural next step in evolution of your relationship, just get married, put a ring on,
from an Islamic perspective, from your experience, is that really the best solution every single time? Well, you need to make sure that you're compatible with that person, you may have just got, you know, going into this relationship out of lust,
you know. So I think it's important number one, that you ensure that this person that you're with, are you compatible with them? Do you share the same values? Do you do they even qualify to be your spouse? Are they Muslim for in, especially in the case of, you know, a Muslim woman is only allowed to be married to a Muslim man, otherwise, a Muslim man can be married to the people of the book.
So I think number one, make sure that you are compatible. And then number two, do things right. So that, number one, you don't go
causing injustice to yourself in this worldly life and,
and hence being potentially punished in this life before the hereafter?
Maybe? So I think, yes, you do need to do things properly. And we have an Hamdulillah, the Quran and the Sunnah to guide us through that process.
And that process is there, that's been divinely communicated to us. So there must be good in it, there must be Baraka in it, we need to always be mindful of what's going to bring about blessings. If the foundation is weak, then most likely the marriage will be weak. And then you bring children into this mix. And then it becomes complicated. You measure compatibility. How does that work from a design perspective, then when in order to determine compatibility, you need to know that person. So technically, you need to be in some form or relationship with them to get to know them well enough to determine whether they are compatible life partner for that person, but he's somebody that you
can date that person. Okay, that traditional dating scene, while often Muslims is impermissible. So how do you go about determining compatibility, when you can't be in relationship with them, you can visit the parents. So if, you know one thing I would recommend is actually like having a visit so you visit the, you know, the woman's parents and wellies home, you can sit in a common area and talk just because you're visiting, it doesn't mean that it's going to work out it means that hey, I want to get to know this person, if you don't have a wildly and this is a lot in the case of reverts where they might not have a family because they their you know, their parents may be against their
daughter marrying a Muslim or they've had to be basically be ostracized from their parents. Here, Muslim community organizations come in Imams come in, they go to their organization, they can meet up at the Organize at the Islamic organization, they can always find if you don't have the support of family, you can always find you know, elders or a couple
that you can, you know, get to know that person in their home.
Without being alone, being alone with a person the shaytaan is the third and that could lead to haram taking place and and that's what a lot of the times happens. should come back to what Moses said, when you start off a relationship and then one Hello, wait. And then you end up getting married making a hello.
What Allah actually give blessing to that marriage, considering the way it started, was not halal. Because a lot of that happens right now in the community where it's just boyfriend and girlfriends everywhere, right? And they be like, Okay, we're going to make a Hello. Let's make a hello. But the voices are going up as well. Do you think there's a correlation between that because most relationships or most marriages start? Not always. It may be but however,
at the end of the day, we encourage repentance and Tober and Toba in a really destroys what came before if a person is has sincerely repented to Allah azza wa jal and does things right. The relationship can be turned around to be a blessed relationship. Maybe they, you know, they continue to do the Haram even beyond the KK or the Nika and hence that's where the that's why the marriage is toxic. Well, that's why it's leading to HUD. I'm in one of the one of the first questions that I asked couples in my office when they come in after that, you know, their name and occupation, maybe age and background is how's your relationship with Allah? Because that's going to speak volumes
what's happening inside the home. And hence we have the, the pious people of the past. They said so
Some words that should be written in gold. And that is if you don't repair your relationship with the Creator, or if you want your relationship with the creation to be repaired, repair your relationship with the Creator. And hence there's a relationship there is a definite definite correlation or relationship between your connection with Allah and your connection with your spouse. So it is important that we keep things highlighted that we don't wander off that Now traditionally speaking, for 1000s and 1000s of years, people have been getting married through the traditional way and it's worked and we don't know divorce to be so high as it has been in this day and age. And that
could be largely due to, you know, one's disconnection from Allah azza wa jal and not doing what's right because Allah azza wa jal says women are Sabah, Kumasi, but Infibeam Mecca but a deacon, that whatever of mercy but of misfortune that befalls you is due to what your own hands have earned. Right? So that's something that we always I think we need to keep at the forefront of our minds that if we want Baraka in our marriage, that we need to start off on strong solid foundations. Okay, go through the process and ensure that we keep things in sha Allah, halal and that we're doing what Allah azza wa jal loves.
The idea of blessing that you mentioned,
I noticed and I see this a lot in the culture now the idea that you have to have a large and lavish sort of wedding, everyone, like we need to have the biggest wedding we needed this and that caught the wedding. Exactly like don't ask everywhere gets massive. And then I think when people have that going into the wedding, or the or the marriage, it's like we have to have this to start the wedding. Which is what to start the marriage.
Do you think that the Rafa is on that Nikka at that moment, because they're going into it? From what I understand, you can correct me if I'm wrong against the Sunnah in regards to how marriage should begin in terms of the celebration of it. And then you have like, lots of music and intermixing and things like that.
So one of your thoughts on the Sunnah is to is to celebrate your special day, that's called the walima. Right? There's a wedding feast. That is Sunnah, right? But of course, everything has limits. And what we need to be mindful of if we that this will emit must include, you know, halal aspects. And, you know, you mentioned for example, having, you know, musical instruments having, you know, you know, you know, free mixing of the two genders and dancing and, and what have you, this is going to take away from the baraka, you've already now started your marriage out on the limb, you're out on the limb already, for how, you know, there was the baraka going to be you know, coming from, you
know, I've seen Subhanallah when I think back about some of the most beautiful moments when it comes to
couples celebrating their wedding, we, you probably have seen this where, where, you know, the bride is dressed in her wedding outfit and the groom in his, and they're actually, you know, somewhere in the world serving poor people. And if you've seen these scenarios, and that's how they wanted to celebrate their wedding, they wanted to celebrate by by giving, and you know, what a mindset to have. And that is so beautiful to give.
You know, I went to a marriage recently, and one brother,
he, he stood up at the end after the Nicca. And he said, All all gifts that are given to me today are going towards a a, a charity, you know, you know, organization, or it's going to build an Islamic school in some country. And I thought, wow, that is amazing, like, look at how you could have this couple, you know, are thinking in terms of long term, they're thinking long term about Baraka in their marriage. So they've already opened up a door that is very resourceful that's going to bring about all of this Boddicker
and, you know, this Masjid was this, this this particular Nikka was at a masjid.
It was segregated. Okay. There was this element of giving, you know, sadaqa on behalf of all the guests, and I thought, wow, that is that is really that's a beautiful, that's a beautiful gesture and a beautiful way to start your marriage. We've seen on the on the flip side of this, I've seen, you know, you know, a marriage that went all out, and how that marriage ended up in divorce, right? You don't have Nikkor and you've done a divorce for that particular cup. Interestingly, I did the Nikka for that couple. Okay, the divorce. I didn't do the divorce because it was complicated, right. So with complex
catered divorces, especially when the husband is not cooperating, there's a different process. And that process goes through
an Islamic tribunal that handle those cases, right. So but we what we what you have to understand is that less is more, in a sense of there is there is room for has said for envy, there is room for evil I, there's, there's the gossip that comes with it.
So I think we need to be very, you know, humble, nothing wrong with having a really nice, you know, kneecap just within within boundaries within limits. And, you know, keep in mind the baraka aspect.
When it comes to weddings, I feel like it's most of the time, the female that really wants to extravagant. And it's from my experience, from a friend's experience and whatnot. What advice would you give you, all the sisters out there, they want crazy weddings? Well, I guess, you know, the crazy weddings are this. This mindset is coming from a place of familiarity of a story that they have created from a young age, they have a lot of reference points, looking at all of these weddings and compete as well, and they want to compete. This is competition, there's your social media platforms, you know,
you know, really creating a belief system that this is how it's going to be and this is the only way it's going to be and no, it doesn't have to be that way. And, you know, keep it within the Islamic, you know, requirements. There's nothing wrong with having a wedding dress with having a beautiful ceremony, but just keep it halal. And, and, and, you know, limit how many people on social media, I mean, really, no one on social media should be should be seeing what the blessing this this blessing in its full extent, I guess, in its full flavor, as because it may bring about, you know, how sad and evil I was their tone we rejected to do a marriage because it was too extravagant. Well, not too
I don't recall. I mean, usually, usually, by the time the celebrant or the Imam is there, everything is like really like, you know, low key everyone's behaving, keep it clean, keep it really interesting. And then, like, like, what happens is as soon as you want to sign that's it. The site like everything, everybody's prim and proper, and they're just sitting there and they're just, you know,
mashallah, the best behavior, right? And then this is sort of, you start to see some eyes, look, you know, looking at you and you go, Ah, they're waiting for me to go, because you can see the DJ setup.
Right, the DJ is there. And then and then you see the drummers you know, they're on their outside, and you can hold on to that, has that already happened?
So, yeah, so you do see a lot of that I don't get to see
until I'm gone, you know, and have that ALLAH blessed shift we do we talk about sort of the material side of marriages and whatnot and the dowry, or Mahara is, is a is an important part of Islamic marriages and things like that. Now, obviously, Islam always encourages people to have a keep a simple dowry. But there is an argument now that a lot of people have really from our sisters,
about the fact that a dowry or a larger dowry is in a way an insurance policy, is it not that if the marriage goes pear shaped or belly up or the husband turns out to be a very difficult person to work with? At least a woman has this, this pool of money, whatever it may be, that you can simply walk away with and say, well, at least, you know, for all my pain that I didn't go through all this at least a walked away with something. It's insurance policy for some. What's your take on that?
If we look back to the MaHA the origin of the MaHA is a gift we're at when he said I saw Ducati in and they give you know, women, you know, the bridle money as a gift, it's a gift. It's a basically it's a thank you, thank you for accepting my proposal to marry you. And unfortunately, over time, that's now changed. Where we know the Hadith whereby, you know, the prophesy Salah married off a companion to a woman by virtue of some verses of the Quran, okay, that he would be, you know, teaching or an iron ring if you have one, right. That was the simplicity of the Maha, but like you said it later on became more of an insurance policy. Right. And sadly, even though it's an insurance
policy, I remember vividly reading
a post by an imam who worked for an Islamic organization for many, many years.
He was processing divorces. And he said, and it just really, like, shocked me that he said, of the 1000s of divorces that were processed through this Islamic organization, only a handful paid them I have paid that insurance policy. Right.
So, so unfortunately, that's one aspect of it. The other thing that I'm seeing a lot of that's very sad, is that because of, you know, non compliance, or the husband not willing to pay up the money that is owing that he agreed to pay in that contract, that if he divorces her, he will pay her a lump sum, right.
And because what what men have caught on or husbands have caught on is that isn't there's a sort of a loophole. And that is, I'm going to make it very difficult for this for my wife, because I don't really want to divorce her or, number one, I don't want to divorce her, or I don't want to divorce her and be out of pocket. Right? So so what do they do? They say, Well, you know what, if you want to divorce, there's something in Islam called holo. And holo is an annulment of the marriage on the part of the woman, she's demanding the divorce. And so part of one of the conditions of holo is for the woman to forfeit all or or some of her dowry or Maha, right, or Dawa as a small, correct.
And so Subhanallah this leaves a lot of women who are in toxic relationships, right? Well, I just went out, if he's not going to pay me, I don't want anything, then I just went out. And so they come out of the relationship, they say, Yep, I forfeit my dowry. Now release me from this marriage. And then the husband cooperates. Right? And that's, that's unfair, that's really unfair, especially when the wife is most likely leaving, because of this man's, you know, toxic behavior, and maybe abuse and what have you, right? So my recommendation to the sisters is to try and go through an Islamic tribunal to, to have their, you know, their rights maintained, and to try and have some mediation
and arbitration to ensure that they can have at least
you know, some of this dairy, if not all of the dairy, especially if the husband has the finances to do that, and especially if she has grounds for a divorce, if she has like Islamic grounds for a divorce, why should she be ripped off her mother? Why, you know, so I'm hoping that Insha Allah, with, you know, that with the progress of the Islamic community, in the West, and I'm here, I can only really speak about Australia. I don't know about the models in other countries. But my hope is that there will be there will be that the Islamic tribunals in this country in this country, and other western countries will have enough power to ensure that if they are no the marriage by way of
fessor, an annulment that the woman is still going to be entitled, by through a court order. That is, you know, through an Islamic tribunal sort of connection or I don't know how that looks like exactly, with a woman is still entitled to her mother, her dowry after an Islamic verdict has been given in her favor to when a man has been given the
people sign thing. And that makes it a contract. Now, in the in the legal world, looking to shearling legal ruling under a court that is a binding contract. You're absolutely right. And there is there is precedents, or precedent cases in Australia, whereby the husband did not pay the Mahara where he divorced her, she took the Islamic document to the court of law. And the Court of Law demanded that this man honor this contract because it is a contract. Right? So that's a very interesting scenario. And there has been more than one scenario. And this and that case became precedent. Females can do that because obviously,
if you run it on a napkin, it's still it's still binding contract. So even if it was verbal Islamically you need to honor that agreement or otherwise you're going to be standing before Allah one day. And this is really a message for the husbands out there. You know, you need to understand that. That if you don't pay the Mahara, that is owing you're gonna stand before Allah azza wa jal before the judge of all judges, and you're going to have a debt. You know, I mean, the prophesize Selim, he refused to pray to lead
uh Janaza prayer because of a a companion who passed away, and he had like, I think it was like two dead hands or dinars in debt. And he said Salou, Allah Sahibi. Come pray over your companion to show you the seriousness of not paying your debts. Sure, but murder has come to a point where it's almost like a barrier to entry to marriage. Because people aren't females are asking ridiculous sums. You know, my sister got married not long ago, a couple of months ago. And she asked for, for my hair, and I thought was a bit much, right. But she says her friend wanted to help her friend, this friend that what's going on here, like when I got married, my wife, one was literally three gold bracelets.
Because my two grand three grand, it was all shocked. I'm like, Well, I've got a better way to cheat on this one. But it's come to a point where it's a massive barrier to entry. Considering that in Australian law, when you get married, and then divorce, the court still gives so much to the female. So is there a reason why marriage should be asked extravagantly, considering that the divorce does happen, the wife will take the house, the children, your superannuation, and she's taking so much more than the money. So what are your views on that?
If a woman does, you know, want that security in the future, then she whatever, that she should write that in the contract, it should be in the marriage contract, whether you want half of the house, whether you want a certain amount of money
because at the time of divorce, you're only going to be entitled to any financial contributions you actually made. Or you're going to be entitled to the Mahara, that has been unpaid.
So I think it's better to be very clear from the beginning about what you want in the future. So you're not transgressing any Islamic guidelines. In saying that I would, my proposal would be for a more realistic Maha Maha that can be paid throughout probably the course of the marriage. So what you could probably propose is say, let's say let's work with $50,000, right. And we said the mod is $50,000. But it's payable in installments, that it's payable over $5,000 per year, or whatever it is that you guys want to agree on. And it's payable over the next 10 years, right? Now, you know, that's better than to wait at the end and maybe not get anything, okay. And then that $5,000 That
10,000, that money that's accumulating, you can invest it, okay? You might want to invest it, say with some company called TGS.
you know, you may want to, you know, invest it in something that's going to give you some return. And at least you can, you can now make financial contributions towards your, towards the home. Now, you've got, you've got, you've actually got your foot in, you've got, you can invest it in whatever you like, it's your money at the end of the day.
I'm more for, for having this sort of installments, or having an upfront payment and a delayed payment. Right. But the delayed payment is not upon divorce. And, you know, if we look back at Muhammad, it was never meant to be at the time of divorce. That was never the the objective of Mahara.
However, Muhammad is a financial agreement. So you can have an agreement to say, Well, I'm open to having the deferred amount be paid, if you divorce me, or if you die,
then I'm open for that delay. And that's what you're essentially saying in the marriage contract by signing that on there as well. I've got a family friend, who got married and the wife asked for Maha. And always very interesting, nobody could, like no one could believe this at all. She asked for him to memorize a surah of the Quran and to recite it back to her, and to have the understanding of the Torah as well. So we need to understand what it's saying that that the deceit of it and to recite it back and after that, they can get married. And other people are saying, is that even allowed? Are you allowed to do that?
Yeah, it was very interesting. But is that something that can be done? Of course, it's up to the woman to accept or to reject. I mean, that's her mother. And mother can be a service Mahad can be a
Um, you know, a product or, you know, something tangible.
But interestingly, because we're talking about Mahara, we have to also, because we have a diverse community, not all communities have this whole deferred amount. So I get, especially now in the West, that, you know, we have cultures coming together, I actually get fathers calling me. And they say, you know, let's say, for example, the father is from an Indonesian background, and the Indonesian boy is going to marry a Lebanese girl. And now the Lebanese and the Arab tradition, they're very big on this, you know, you know, this deferred amount and being somewhat of a of a chunk of an amount, right. And the Indonesians, for example, and the like, they, they just give them
a HUD on the day, they will actually frame it, they will put like, maybe $2,000, or 3000, or 5000, whatever, maybe a few $100, they will frame it, they will, they will do something really, you know, artistic with it. And they just bring it and they give it on the day. And that's it. Hello, see Annie, it's done deal. So he calls me up. And he says to me, I remember a conversation and he said, the father of the bride is saying that they want X amount of dollars. And can you help me with this one? Can you make me understand and have to make them understand that now there's a lot of cultural elements coming in here. So yes, there's different cultures are also going to do things slightly
different. Right. And, and that's, that's something that we'll also need to understand what's the most ridiculous and hideous thing.
I remember once, there was a million dollars, there was a million dollars, that was some time ago. But in a more recent incident, subhanAllah, we I had a brother reach out to me, and he came and saw me and he said to me, Look, the family is not really asking for much. They're only asking for,
you know, a few $1,000. That was right. And he said, Look, you know, I want to be the better person and I want to I want to put down half a million dollars. I said to him, Brother, are you really sure you want to do this? Like, you know, this, this is a commitment that if you commit to this, and if anything goes wrong,
then you need to you need to basically walk the walk here. So anyway, I didn't agree. I didn't agree with him. I didn't agree with this. I just didn't feel good about it. And there was a few other things surrounding the case. That didn't make me feel comfortable, right. We did the marriage and Hamdulillah we included the amount because that's what he wanted.
Few weeks, maybe a few months later, they're getting a divorce. Court Wallahi
are getting a divorce. And subhanAllah. Long story short, now we have the courts between them. Yeah.
So for the money for the money.
Because it gets really ugly. Yeah. That amount of money you build to have something going on. That's crazy.
So yeah, so I think
probably one of the craziest some of the craziest stories I'm hearing in more recent times is gold diggers
where we have some women getting Nikka and they seem to be quite genuine and and they will have a Mahara and in the contract, but they don't really intend on staying long in the relationship. Now, I don't want to like scare the viewers.
But you can probably, you know, that's why due diligence is key. Take your time, ask the right questions. Make sure you're close to Allah, make sure you do your Istikhara prayer to ensure that you know, you see any red flags, right? That Could you describe some just for the viewers
Red flags, you know, maybe you know, many divorces, divorced many times,
not practicing, you know, you know, check in with their family, with their friends with the community. Does anybody know you who gonna ask about you who can vouch for you?
You know, what was the conversation focused on? Was it you know, financials and your bank account and things like that?
So, you know, that's something to also keep in mind. I just thought I'd throw that in there. And
I've got a question around.
We'll do a contracts and whatnot. Now there's obviously the court of law in Australia or in most Western countries protects women quite strongly.
On the men side, the male side, you know, men who are wealthy would go into a marriage, usually with a prenup or something like that. What's the Islamic stance on that? I mean, that to have a prenup, or what what's the Sharia outstanding and or is it something that you would encourage people to look at, in the context of there being a possibility of gold diggers of people trying to take advantage of a person's good nature that you might say, well, you know, it's probably best that because you are a person of means that
You may be actually out there looking at your wallet rather than looking at your heart or your life
can it can they predict themselves? Well, you know as the saying goes, the smart person learns from his own mistakes and the wise person learns from learns from the mistakes.
So, I think in this context
in this day and age Yes, I think if you're coming in cashed up, if you're coming in with assets
then yes, prenuptial agreement does not go against Islamic Sharia because you're preserving your you know, your hard earned wealth right.
And of course, you come in you give the bride her dowry, okay. And what is and basically ensure that you are the husband that you need to be towards her as a financial financial your financial obligations towards her her right her financial rights are ensured
that you ensure that, that you take care of her that you're a gentleman towards her that you
you know, that you are the imam in your home that you're a leader you lead by example, that you are responsible that you are mature, that you feel Allah as soldier when you come in, you know, that's your role as a husband, right.
And, you know, the role of the wife is to protect, you know, her her husband's assets and to be ensuring that she is loyalty him she is respectful to, towards him dutiful towards him, right. So there's nothing wrong with the the husband coming in and protecting his assets. Okay? Because we have seen cases where the woman doesn't just go over, go after her Mahara. She goes beyond the MaHA and that is injustice. And that is oppression against herself. Okay, and oppression against her husband, if she's asking for more than what the Sharia has stipulated. And if she's not sure, then seek out the opinion or fatwa, okay, or ruling from, you know, a high standing imam or Imams to
ensure that you are not taking more than you are entitled to, so that you don't go causing injustice against yourself. That's easier said than done. Because it surely caught always favors the female. But it should the Australian court can favor the female, but she has the right to accept or reject in the current within the context of Islam. So she will she should be taking is whatever she's entitled to Islamically after having consulted and Islamic tribunal, or Islamic amendment essay, yes, you are entitled to one, two and three, you're not entitled to anything beyond this scope here. Okay. And you you taking more than that you've got you've gone now and transgress the limits that
Allah has said, and does he some tribunal then consider the context of the divorce if, for example, if the husband's been unfaithful to his wife, then the court of law in Australia would say, Look, you know what, because of his infidelity, the wife is deserving of more notice this tribunal reflect that sentiment as well as they will, you know, because he's been done wrong by you, then you deserve more? Or is it just because well, so how do you quantify that? How do you quantify the contribution? That's something that the Muslim judge will need to quantify? I'm not the judge, I don't really, I don't sit with these panels. Hence, there's a lot of cases that do come to me if there's a mutual
and then yes, I will take on the case, and I will mediate and give support to both.
If the case involves asking for more than the mohar, then I refer this case to these cases to an Islamic tribunal to give their judgement, it's not my area now. There's a there's a, there's a line that I can't transcript a transgress. You touched on a bit earlier just in this discussion in regards to the roles and responsibilities of like a husband and a wife. And in today's age as well, the lines are so blurred.
And I find that it can be an issue of trying to get the ideas across to both the men and the women as well, in regard to what the roles and responsibilities they should be and how to enact and in today's age where you get the narrative of it shouldn't be that way. In like a Western sort of environment. How can we get those ideas across and have and have the youth understand how things need to be because I find that when people start to step outside of those boundaries, or or the lines get a bit blurred? Things start to break down a bit within the marriage as well. Well, number one, we need to really ensure that the connection
between the youth and Allah is very strong, we need to go back to basics. It, you know, marriage has worked well for, you know, 1000s of years. And to come into a day and age and see divorce statistics at over 50%. Right. That's one in every two marriages, almost failing. mean this statistic is is I guess, more so from the Western world. I don't I'm yet to see, you know, data being collected by the Muslim world that would probably reflect that but but we are seeing we are seeing definitely divorce on the rise. We need to ask ourselves some questions, what, what's changed? What's changed is where we're trying to go against the divine narrative. And that divine narrative is the Quran and the
Sunnah and we go back, if we're going to go and derail or veer away from the Quran and Sunnah we're going to see problems happening, right? Our roles, our duties or obligations, our rights have been well defined by our maker, okay by Allah azza wa jal. And the key, the key message here would be to really learn about,
you know, your role as a husband and your role as a wife,
to ensure that you get it right, don't challenge the divine narrative, right. So Hamdulillah, Allah subhanaw taala blessed me in more recent times, to craft an online Muslim Marriage Course. So and the goal of that was to really was to have an a platform available for potential spouses and spouses about the knowledge that they need to know to ensure that they have a happy, a healthy, and a thriving marriage, you notice how I didn't say ordinary, I don't want you to be in an ordinary marriage. Because what we've learned over time is that a good marriage is going to keep you happier, it's going to keep you healthier, right? But for you to be in a happy and a healthy marriage, there
are guidelines, there are rules, and if you violate violate these Maxim's or these rules,
you go, it's, you're going to see it come up in your marriage. So number one, the number one key, and I've even seen this in the Western literature, where they talk about where psychologists get together, and they do this research, and they realize that knowledge, right, and communication, right, are two of the greatest contributors to a happy or a healthy and a long lasting marriage. You know,
you really want to find yourself happily married, and for you to be happily married. There's a number of moving parts, right? Be it you know, your connection with Allah so He can place the baraka in your marriage that we've been talking about, be it the the cultural, I guess, norms and expectations that you need to factor in, be it personality types, be it your your needs, as a human being, what you prioritize and what your values are. And you know what, you know, what are you also what's your story in terms of your insecurities and your sensitivities? And
have you been traumatized? Have you healed from that trauma?
Do you know about the nature of a man and a woman and what resonates with a woman? What resonates with a man? Did you grow up with primarily boys in your family girls in your family? Did you grow up seeing, you know, toxic parents? Is all your references, you know, divorced parents in divorce uncles and Auntie's that are creating this narrative. There are so many contributors to why we're seeing divorce today and knowledge. I believe learning unlearning and relearning is key. It's instrumental. And, you know, going back to traditional marriages, then we have, you know, the, you know, the feminist movement Liberalist, which is, which is a branch of the Liberalist movement. So,
you've got liberalism, you've got feminism, you've got,
you know, politics coming into this. You've got, it's really messy. It's really, really messy. I honestly feel it's a challenge for many of the youth today to get married, and especially with the mixed messages that they are getting from their environment.
I'm so is it complicated it is. But that's why I'm really really suggesting get knowledge, get the right knowledge to ensure that you are going to be in a happy marriage because I can tell you now, much of your happiness after marriage is going to come from your marriage, much of your, you know, the health of your your mental health, your physical health, your resilience to feel better, even how much money you're going to end up making in the future, and is going to be dependent to a large extent on the quality of your marriage. So let's touch on divorce. Because divorce can be painful. And my friend here went through divorce, or have been through a murder, Revert and then got pulled
back somehow something happened, something happened to me.
Do you think that the current world divorces,
there's a valid reason for divorces or people making decisions? Permanent decisions of temporary situations, situations? Both? That's a good question. I think both I think
you have number one reason for divorce.
I think, in my opinion, that
many, many have not married the right person.
And that could have been due to again, the lack of knowledge due diligence. Immaturity,
just wrong reasons. Right. So that's the first sort of site to this. But then
another reason would be that after the marriage, they just didn't have the tools and the knowledge and the know how, on how to manage and to navigate a healthy marriage. Right.
you know, I know personally, as a divorce person myself, I when I was married, I was very young. And I had zero, almost zero knowledge of,
of, you know, what, what are the contributors towards a, you know, a thriving marriage? The only, I guess, reference points that I would have had is maybe the movies. You know, think about it. I mean, I never went to an Islamic Marriage Course. I mean, we didn't even have them in my day and age, not that I want to give away too much about my age.
But but you know,
you know, what resources did a lot of us have back then.
And so, you know, you come into marriage, you realize that, Oh, my God, I'm not really compatible with this person, we don't have this same vision, and oh, my god, maybe you know, my partner has got some trauma that's showing up in the relationship, and you probably would have heard me say, one of my favorite quotes that I've come across is, if you don't heal, what hurts you, you will bleed all over those who never cut you. So what we see is, we see individuals coming into a relationship with baggage that's unresolved. And then, and then the other person is saying, Oh, my God, like, Why Why are you behaving this way? I haven't, haven't done anything to you. Well, it's not that you've done
anything, but this person has some some issues that you need to be able to work with. And now they're causing, you know, some, it's causing some damage. So,
yes, so there is the lack of knowledge and the tools to be able to navigate a healthy marriage, emotional intelligence,
you know, and knowing how to self regulate. So for example, we see that one of the highest reasons of divorce, we find that the top we have infidelity, we find
the lack of emotional intelligence or anger management techniques.
And hence, it leads to abuse be it physical, emotional, spiritual, financial, so the only abuse
Yeah, and we find, we find that lack of emotional intelligence up there with infidelity. And then another one would be family interference, families interfering in marriages, and it's causing this toxicity. You said something very interesting, rather early, and that is
that many people are making a a permanent decision or many spouses are making a permanent decision from a temporary situation. Right? And that resonates a lot because, you know, one of my strategies when I'm dealing with couples who are talking divorce, is to really try and get them to rethink and try and giving them some options because we can become our own enemies. Right, and we're very hasty
You know, and that's the nature of a human being he wants a quick fix, and especially in this drive thru generation that we, you know, experiencing, everything's got to be quick, you know?
And they've, we've been conditioned for something to be everything to be quick, you know, people like would message me, and they want me to answer right? They'll send me the question mark. And it's like, like, you know, do they not realize that I'm probably handing out another, you know, 10s of cases? And how do you want me to quickly answer you, but we see this this hastiness and this agile and this, we have an Arabic proverb, Elijah Lamanna shape on that hastiness is from Shavon. Right. And I think, you know, if I had to summarize would say, yes, that divorce is a result of
improper due diligence, or you've got unresolved issues that you've never done before the marriage that's now showing up in your marriage, or you've married the wrong person, because you're married, because, you know, you confused? Lust, you know, with love. And, you know, you just, you know, and that's what you went in with.
It could be, as we said, you know, due to not having the tools and the knowledge to navigate a healthy marriage and understand the nature of the man and the nature of the woman, right?
And it could be just to your hastiness
in wanting to make a rash decision.
Do you know how many times a week I get people reaching out to clarify whether a divorce is binding or not? I mean, that's very, very common for any event, for any event, if I, I can probably pace place a high level bit, there is such a thing. You know, that the probably the most asked question to any Imam would be regarding whether a divorce is binding or not, because so many men, okay, would be divorcing their spouse during moments of anger. Right? And that happens way too often. That needs to husbands need to lose this idea of saying divorce, during a moment of anger or when they're upset. This is not a light statement. And there's no joking, by the way when it comes to divorce. If
you even say jokingly, you know, I divorced my wife, that becomes a binding divorce in a snap. It's very serious. Okay, it's one of the top three things Apostle said and said, they're serious, whether it's Egypt, Kabbalah Nica, whether it's divorce, okay, or taking back your wife, you know, after during a revocable divorce. So, we need to be very, very careful, more awareness, I guess, around these the rules related to divorce in Sharla. She just put it up? Well, I think society overall, we have now created ourselves into this world of having commitment issues, we don't like to commit to anything. You know, we don't commit to a phone contract. We don't We no longer have, you know, back
in the day used to have a 24 month phone contract. Now, it's like, if you put me on a contract, contract. So I think we're almost moving to a world now where everything nothing is a lock in contract, even even employment, or like an employer today will work with him for a month, and after that will change or change or change again, or 20 years, but they'll never be the case. And you take pride in the fact that you were committed to an employer for 1015 20 years.
How do we come? How do you overcome that as exciting grain is in built into us now, in every walk of our lives that we don't like to commit? And all of our service providers around us, our Netflix and our stand and whatnot? Everyone has, oh, well, if you don't like us anymore, you can quit us this month, and it won't charge you for next month onwards. How do we overcome that for the for the youth of today, who are looking to get into marriages. I mean, we've got to understand that we're not we're talking marriage here, we're talking, we're not talking Netflix.
Or, you know, this teleco company.
You know, we're talking about something very, very serious that if you get this wrong, if you're not committed to this, if you get this wrong, this is going to impact your mental health. This is going to impact your work. This is going to impact your children, not only your children but your future generation. And there's studies out there that talk about intergenerational trauma, ancestral trauma, right, as a result of these children growing up in you know, in a two households or a toxic household. So you better get committed for your own good, you better get committed, you better tell yourself that this is a serious contract. Allah makes it a serious contract. Who were you to say
that it's not a serious contract or to take a soul
lightly when Allah says, what a husband, I mean, call me Falcon calleva, that day that your wife have taken from you a covenant, a serious contract, right? It must be taken seriously. Otherwise, you will feel the pinch of it. You know, don't look don't, you know, look at talk to those people who have been divorced for 10 years, you know, and who have got children or talk to those people. Yeah, who've been divorced, and how did it impact their productivity and their focus? You know, this could lead to depression, this could lead in you don't in especially, let's say you don't end up having the knowledge to deal with your depression. And then you decide to go on antidepressants that
cause you the side effects and these other problems. You have to think long term. Don't compare a marriage contract to some fleeting financial contract, which doesn't really impact your mental health, or even your physical health. We've got to go in there with a more serious and you know, serious attitude. And how would you like it? How would you like to know that your future child your future, you know, child is being abused and neglected by your future son in law or daughter in law, you need to look at things, I think change the lens. You better change it really, really quickly before you feel the ramifications of having this attitude or this mindset.
So I'm gonna read your Hadith. Uh huh. Okay, oh, division because I don't think
and what is it? No, DC is controversial because it is the prophets, words and what
the, it's narrated by even the best.
the Prophet said, I was showing the Hellfire in the majority of its dwellers were women who are ungrateful, right? It was asked today displeasing Allah? Are they ungrateful to Allah, he replied, they're ungrateful to their husband, and ungrateful for the favors and the good done to them. If you have always been good to one of them, and she sees something in you, and you know, the keep saying, I've never received anything good from the right woman have a habit of saying that I think we've all experienced that in our marriage. You never do good. You've never right that it happens. Good enough, right? Do you think that is one of the biggest reasons why people get divorced? Because
personally, you know, I think as men, we always experience our partners, say things like that. And it builds up, it builds up and then a woman will a man will have enough and just just just go off. Right? So when enough is enough, man, you're comparing me our marriage to other relationships, you keep saying I'm doing nothing for you. When a mantis does brings a lot into a relationship, right? So do you think or in your experience, do you feel like when a couple is divorcing topics that pop up where a female would say it was done nothing for me or things like that? Because it is it's in a head the throat? You can't be wrong, right? Absolutely not? Absolutely. The prophesy said and
doesn't speak from his own desire. Its way it's divine revelation. So Pamela, when it comes to relationships, it's it's not that you it's not it's not always in most often, it's it's not always that, you know, it's the cheating, that led to the divorce, or it's this particular action that led to divorce the to divorce a lot of the time, it's, it's what you are not doing in the relationship that's leading to divorce. Right. And hence, you may have heard of the saying, death by 1000 cuts, right? It wasn't the one the one cut, okay, that that killed the person, but it was it was several cuts in in the case of in a by by analogy of marriage, it wasn't the single thing that you did that
lead to divorce, most of the time, it's a number of things, or it's the one thing that's just ongoingly happening again and again and again. Right. And the nature of a husband is he is wired to give right men want to give right and they are the ones that are responsible for giving in the case of the marriage in terms of the the financial giving, the sick giving of security, the giving of reminders for the sake of entering Jana and being protected and having baraka and the dunya right.
But what comes with the giving, he wants some appreciation. Right? And the more you appreciate me as a husband, believe me the more Yes, gentlemen
room to disagree.
So, when we get Subhanallah, who it is, and, you know, when you appreciate your man Yanni Subhan Allah, it really does wonders. And hence in this hadith, he's saying your criminal law shear, you know that there is this ingratitude, you know that you're not showing your gratitude. And, you know, gratitude when you show a gratitude, your gratitude to a man, believe me, he wants to give more, he feels appreciated, and he feels acknowledged. And so for a man.
Interestingly, when I talk about the love languages,
to with a lot of couples, and, and I asked couples when I'm doing the a lot of the pre marriage counseling, I asked them, What do you think his biggest need is? And a lot of the times, the woman would say that his biggest need is words of affirmation, right? And funny enough, generally speaking, that is the case for most men, right? So she has really said, what is his filter or what his his natural disposition as a man is, he wants appreciation. And through your appreciation, sister, he's going to give you more of your love language, which may be quality time, which is a big complaint by women, their husbands are always out and about, you know, and they're not spending time
with them. So if you appreciated him more, and I've seen this, I've seen husbands saying I don't want to spend time with her, because she's very critical. She doesn't appreciate me, she doesn't acknowledge me, you know, I do all of these things, right? So, yes, you need to work with the nature of the men and likewise, the nature of the woman. Now, there's two things that I want to say here. When it comes to relationships, two of the greatest contributors for a thriving marriage is love. Right and respect. All right. But when it comes to the husband, the husband wants more what do you guys think he wants more respect to love your spiritualists to see how see ladies? How are the guys
Right. Now, let me ask you gentleman's because you're married or you've been married? What does a woman want more of generally speaking, respect to love. Right. Okay. So this is how it works. If you give your man respect now, respect is a big word. I think part of that respect is the appreciation. Right? The you appreciate your man for what he's bringing. He's working very, very hard to really, you know, make things happen for his household. He's going through a lot of struggle, a lot of stress. He's fighting a lot of battles, right? Yes, Sister, you are fighting battles at home with your children with your household and with your demanding husband, right? We get it, but you both
fight, you know, going through stuff. And you know, so if you respect your man, the way that he wants to be respected, he actually feels loved.
Alright, and if you love now, gentleman, if you love your woman, if you love your wife, you know the way that she wants to be loved. Okay, she's gonna feel respected my man, he respects me, because he's listening to me, and he's doing the things that I love. So we need to be, you know, I guess, in tuning into our basic needs as human beings, you know, of respect and love, but your gratitude is very, very important, brother, this is why you're the love.
Oh, man, you have to explain.
I was gonna watch that. And
we didn't say the love.
Shift question about you know, in
a second. In today's society, you know, society has shifted a lot in Western countries, right where the the traditional household is long enough traditional household, it's changed a lot. You have
you know, traditionally yet husband whose primary role was to go and you know, source an income or living for the family and the wife stayed home and to grow the kids. And so today, it's completely changed. You have men who are stay at home husbands, you have women who go out there and work you have many dual income households, you have a rising divorce rate, which means you have blended families. Now you have, you know, step kids and step parents and step, whatever, whatever. in and amongst all that from, from your experience. How is someone supposed to navigate all of that? Because there's a lot to take in that a lot. And we haven't yet had enough case studies or enough of
a history about how to make these new relationships work. So how does the new modern family navigate its way through all this?
Once again, when we need to look at what is what's actually happening on the ground through a guest some evidence, if not all the evidence is there but maybe anecdotal experiences and just really learning from the people around
undoes in what's really happening on the grounds with a lot of these modern ways of doing things, as opposed to the traditional way of doing things.
And I think, you know, I feel that it's, it's, it's, it's really
create, it's really creating a lot of
problems. The thing that you said that was interesting is that we then have enough data to to substantiate
this this reality.
But I feel that in the future, we're going to, consequently see, because we're not following our roles as divinely communicated, we're going to see increase in divorce, divorce rates, and to be honest with you, I'm, I'm feeling this a lot more now. With this generation, that is that is coming through.
I am seeing I'm seeing it firsthand, the divorce rates increasing and the hastiness.
from from what we're seeing in this context.
So that's sort of,
you know, I can only say that, that we're seeing divorce rates on the rise.
And, you know, forever, it wasn't a partnership. It wasn't, it was forever.
There was forever, and it worked well, when it was a patriarchy. Right. When it was, you know, the wife plays her role, the husband is the leader, he's the Imam. And ultimately, he will,
you know, make the final call as the leader, not a dictator. That doesn't mean it doesn't listen to his wife's opinions, right. But when we going into this relationship as a partnership,
we're going in with that sort of mindset,
that goes against the filter that goes against the roles, this is going to eventually crumble, it just can't stay like that it goes against you going against the grain in the way it was meant to be. So I would, I would highly emphasize the importance of going back to the Quran and Sunnah. And really learning about your role as communicated by Allah azza wa jal, and through his prophet Mohammed sites send them to ensure a more safe, a safer environment, for your relationship and for the future generation. It's a very loaded question, you've asked me, you've really put me on the spot here.
And I would probably need to even give it a bit more thought, to give it justice.
But I, I know, many months ago, I said, Oh, my God, this generation is really going to keep me busy in the future. And I, and I know. And I know that from the counseling sessions that I get, and the divorces that I'm getting,
so whereas once upon a time, I was surprised, you know, if I if I had someone come back for divorce. Now, it's not so much. The fact that I've become desensitized. Not in not that I don't care. Alright, but But it's become the norm. There's something wrong there. I don't agree with that. I'm not comfortable with the fact that I am just now. Here's another one. Yeah, of course, I'm going to give it my best shot. I'm going to try my use every trick and tip and tool that I have to make it work. But it but it worries me that I that I that I'm sort of ready for that. It really troubles me that I'm actually ready for increased divorces,
how do we get the message across them? Because as you saying it's become such an issue now. It's a in our society, with the youth. I think it's integral that we get the message across of having the understanding of what a marriage actually is. Well, that's that's a very good question. And the way I've answered this question is through my marriage course, and how do we get access to that? Well
that just a little header for the plug. So basically, by my my marriage courses at www Muslim marriage courses.com Or just Muslim marriage courses.com
So that course is a very comprehensive course I mean, we're talking about 17 hours of footage of course you're not we've done it in the modern way of having you know, small chunks in a very pellet palatable way we're addressing elephants in the room, right is of course compulsory before you marry somebody. So so this refused to sign the dotted line until whereas show me the caution is if you can have you graduated now you may, you know, graduated to earn the right to get my
I used to be the case in Malaysia. I don't know if it still is the case in Malaysia. But I know in certain countries, you couldn't get married without having completed a pre Marriage Course. And that's one of the, that was one of my inspiration actually,
that that I got this idea for a pre Marriage Course, right from these type of models, and I've done some research around it. And subhanAllah some of the research suggests that the level of marital satisfaction is increased by about 37%. Okay, by having done some sort of, you know, marriage course, before your marriage, imagine that now, when you start to think about that statistic, and you start to think about another statistic, for example, that says that when you have your child, okay, and if you don't have the knowledge on how to maintain a healthy marriage, your marital satisfaction is decreased by about 36 37%. Right? So when you start to add all these numbers up, you
can see where this is going. Whereby, you know,
you know, people or couples finding themselves unhappily married later on, by not knowing how to navigate the marriage by having a child that's now interrupted this the two of you going from a dyad to a triad, and you know, this intruder that's coming in, and it's a cute intruder, but it's intruded you're, it's really throwing things out of alignment. Right. So, so definitely, definitely, I would encourage, um, to answer your question,
brother MohammadReza, is that,
that the key is knowledge. And I think,
you know, many people don't know that they don't know.
You know, and I think,
and I was one of them, you know, I had no idea why a woman reacts the way she reacts or, or what you know, what they're more inclined to, or, I'm one of those individuals who had no idea I didn't even know what I was doing what I was doing until I learned my first book that I picked up in after studying Islamic Sharia, when it comes to, you know, the rights and obligations on marriage was men are from Mars, and women are from Venus. And that made me understand a lot about me and a lot about the opposite gender. And then I went and picked up another book that said, you know, why men don't listen, and women can't read maps, I couldn't put up, I couldn't put these books down and say, Oh,
my God, like, I've got a lot of learning to, you know, to do about, you know,
gender differences. And then you pick up books on psychology and human behavior. And then you go, Oh, my God, like, I have no idea about the importance of working with somebody's insecurities. And if they've been traumatized, and according to the research, you know, maybe 80% of people have been traumatized, or they're sitting somewhere on the trauma spectrum, right? So these are very alarming, you know, statistics, right? So, so when I compiled the Marriage Course, I needed to keep in mind, the spiritual element, I had to keep in mind modern day research into relationships, and looking at love languages, and looking at, you know, personality types, looking at human needs and values,
right. And then also looking at, you know,
cultural elements. And then I had to integrate all of that into a course, to ensure we did justice to this course.
Can you mandate this course, can celebrants a man's mandate, doing a marriage course before a marriage?
Well, that's going to come from a higher authority. And until the higher authority, you know, you know, puts down you know, you know, smashes that hammer and say, yep, it's now law. It's very, very challenging to navigate. But one of the things that I'm doing is I'm actually partnering up with Imams, and partnering up with different organizations. And I'm saying, hey, when you before you do a marriage, what after you do a marriage? Can I request from you to recommend this marriage course. And I want it to be a win win win, I want you to win from this as an Imam, and I want Insha Allah, the the viewers to win, and I actually interact with the people who have who are purchasing or
basically signing up for this course. And actually check in with them. How's it going? What's the feedback and it's amazing, which parts of the course resonate with different people in here? I am thinking it's going to be the love languages, you know, they're going to love that. And it turns out to be some Hadith about
about that you say, oh,
Um, you know, in the morning in the evening that's kind of protect your marriage, or it's, it's, you know,
or it's the personality type questionnaire that they did. And we have quizzes in the course. And we have,
you know, so many different parts to it. But Subhanallah I honestly, honestly cannot stress the enough the importance of knowledge. I mean, we're doing it. Look, I mean, we do it. You know, before we drive, we have to learn, before we get a career we have to learn. Before you get a boat license, you have to learn I mean, even a fishing license you need, right, you need to do some reading through courses before they give. Yeah, yeah. But you know, you do the whole parenting course. The you know, before delivery of baby prenatal? Prenatal? That's right. It's you know, but Subhanallah like, really? Like, what about marriage? You know, you know, I, I've mentioned this before, but I
just love mentioning this study, the 75 year Harvard study, I don't know if you guys have come across it. But it's a 75 year Harvard study of about 730 Men, right what they did. Many, many years ago, Harvard got together said, Hey, we want to track the lives of these men, they come from different walks of life. And in the future, we'd love to see what you know, what was it that distinguish the successful ones from the ones who didn't make it, who went to jail who weren't on drugs who were miserable. So fast tracking the they would, you know, study the lives of these men, every single year, year after year, they would look at all their records, their medical records,
they would interview their spouse, they would interview them. And at the end of the study, and it's still going, by the way, they said there was one resounding message, right, that that stood out that made those men who were successful successful. And this was the message. And this message is so profound, that I actually wrote it on my office window. And this is a good relationship keeps you happier and healthier for staff,
that the quality of your relationships are determined, to a large extent, the quality of the life that you are going to have. So what does that mean? That means if you're in a, if you were in toxic relationships, you most likely probably were going to be angry, doing some really silly and stupid things, that will probably end you up in jail, or in or make you end up on drugs to forget, right? So you can just see where this is going. When you're not in healthy relationships, you're going to do things that are going to cause harm to yourself or harm to others. And hence, you don't become the successful person that you want to be an issue that I've seen an admin, if you guys can relate
to this as well, is that
when it comes to a marriage, it's meant to be a marriage, right? between a husband and a wife. And what happens is, if you get an issue or something happens, your wife or the husband will go have a chat to his friends or her friends about this issue. And those friends might not have the same sort of knowledge that you spoke about in regards to marriage, give their opinions, and then they execute exactly leave the guy. Yeah, that's the response from the female friends. Even guilt. Yeah, that and that's what I've seen, like, I've seen so many people die in relationship with it, or they enter marriage, they have some sort of small issue or something the female will go to do to one of their
friends. And the response group is I'll just leave you and she's usually Single,
single friends, I'll just leave him and most ones have.
And that's what I've seen, I think that's a major issue where, where everyone has an opinion, and you're seeking the opinions of people that might not be qualified to give you those answers. And you taking those opinions, as if this is now the gospel truth of what I need to be doing with my marriage. And it could be that the people that you're turning to their reference points is their parents who are in a toxic marriage, their Auntie or uncle or a friend, daughters and toxic marriage and what they did. So that's very, very dangerous, very dangerous to not get the right advice from the right people. I mean, we do it. I mean, you wouldn't just go to anybody, if you had a medical
condition, right? You wouldn't just take your vehicle that has some problems or making some noise to, you know, to anybody, you take it to the expert, right. And I think, you know, I know speaking to and counseling, you know, many individuals
and getting them to sort of think outside the box and getting them to think differently and say, Hey, why does it have to be this way?
And it's because of a story that they have, you know, told themselves or a reference point that they're focusing on.
So I guess you know, that you this is a very valid point that you've made, that could be also contributing to divorce. If you're seeking the advice from the wrong people. And
that that could be very, very detrimental towards your relationship and towards any children that you have from this relationship. And it's a and again, don't ask, you know, don't ask the person who was recently divorced, okay? But ask a person maybe who was who's been divorced for 10 for 10 years plus and ask them and say, Hey, was it really worth it? What would you have done differently? You know, going to somebody maybe who's a bit more mature, who's mature who has the experience?
You know, yet? No, that's not to say that. I mean, divorce is not a problem. Yes, it is. Moko, it is disliked. But it's also a solution to a problem.
Right? We have to understand that, that I'm not against divorce, but I'm against divorce. If you haven't gone through the process, the right process, you seek out the advice and the counsel of the right people. And then you making that decision, that could mean you could have made the right decision. But then again, you may not have made the right decision. Okay. And that's why it's important to things once again, is the harder prey, the two the two units of prey and then the dark that you make, to ask Allah to guide you to guide you to what is best and asking is to shadow which is consultation and asking the right people, right to ensure that you make the right decision.
Right. And going back to this notion of don't make a permanent decision from a temporary situation, right? And first, Allah Vickery as Allah azza wa jal says, First, Allah decree and controllata Allah Moon as the people of knowledge, if you do not know, right,
so that's, that's a very, very, it's very sad, you know, to hear that, that you know, these hasty decisions are being made by not consulting the right people. She doesn't know anyone to resolve saying like a lot of female go to divorce people in this single friends with Vice. what guys do now is they watch Andrew take videos. Do you not entertained? Yes.
Guys love his videos, right? He's canceled now. He's a Muslim now. I don't know. But ever since he became Muslim Muslims love the guy apparently. But um, he's, I think is a bit sexist towards females. And isn't this masculine journey of giing up guys and whatnot. And a lot of things he says, are valid, and a lot of things he says are ridiculous, right. But a lot of people in the community in the Muslim community as well as saying you resonate with Islam when he's saying how a man should be in a relationship. I'm sure you've seen some of the things he says Devon, a couple of words you could share about people that worship this guy right now. Well, hey, look, worship is for Allah azza
wa jal. And, and of course, you know, I don't I don't I haven't really I've heard of him. I know there's a lot of buzz around him. I don't, I can't say that. I've maybe seen it. I've seen maybe snippets. I can't say I've I've listened to his talks.
But again, we need to ensure that anything he says is in alignment with the Quran and the Sunnah we need to always have a filter with us, that will be able to basically say that this is not this it goes against the Quran. This goes against our sunnah of our Prophet SAW Salem. I think Muslims need to be very, very careful because you could be agreeing with something that goes against Islamic values and Islamic law. That's very, very dangerous. Okay. So again, if you're going to listen to somebody like this, and may Allah subhanaw taala, increase him in authentic knowledge and may Allah subhanaw taala guide him to what is true, what is true, what is the truth? Okay, and May Allah guide
him to retract anything that he said that goes against the teachings of Islam. Alright, we have to be very, very careful when we're talking about religion you're talking about, this is the faith of Allah azza wa jal, and we need to be careful not to be saying anything that goes against the pristine, perfect teachings of Allah as so much and so maybe, you know, always have if you before you want to go and promote any of his talks and say something that resonates with you as a male or you as a female.
Make sure before you spread it that you've that you've verified it, that it is authentic, that it is
in alignment with the Quran and the Sunnah. Before we wrap things up in questions, I've got one last one. And this one that people asked me about, I'm sure they ask you about this as well, many others. The notion of marrying revert, you know, people talk about statistics of you know, marriage is not not, you know, lasting for too long or whatnot. It seems to be the case that these revert marriages have even less of a probability of
Success, this what seems to be the case?
What's your advice to people who are, you know, in the process of marrying reverter looking to do that or moving away from marrying within their own culture within their own community, and venturing out in that direction? What do you have to say about that.
So if we talk about reverts in terms of the husband, like the male male reverts.
That's something you have to be very mindful of that they that he's actually genuine about Islam, especially that he's going to be ended up being the head of the house, the leader of the House, as Allah has legislated this role for him. And
especially that down the track, if you discover that he's not genuine about his Islam, then your marriage is invalid. So I had a case recently, where,
you know, the sister reached out to me with her husband, and it turns out that he was never really genuine about Islam. And this is now years down the track. And, and, and this is emotional, you know, connection, and investment.
And subhanAllah we're now trying to salvage this relationship and getting him to understand the beauty of Islam, and how Islam is the real deal and how it's a good you know, religion is the religion of Allah azza wa jal, right. So there's that side of things, make sure that if you're going to marry a man, that's a revert, that he's actually genuine about his Islam. Otherwise, it can be very, very problematic. I mean, even in some of the best case scenarios. Now, I've seen, I know of a case where more than one case, several cases where women embraced Islam, and they were even quite genuine, genuine about Islam, but they probably never had strong foundation, and their parents were
in their ears, and against Islam, And subhanAllah they decide to apostate or turn their backs on Islam. And hence, now the marriage dissolves. And there's children involved, and court cases, and hundreds and 1000s of dollars spent on trying to gain custody. So I think when it comes to that side of Islam and reverts be very, very careful to make sure that the Revert has done the work that any give it some time to ensure that they have genuinely embraced Islam. And they really are walking the walk when it comes to their wisdom. So there's that side of things, then when now, let's say that we're beyond that, and we're going to go into now the cultural elements of this. So yes, in culture
does play a role. And you know, you as a DESE, you as an Arab, okay, you as an Asian, you've seen your parents and your aunts and uncles do things in a certain way. Okay, socialized in a certain way.
Cooking is done in a certain way. Now you come in, and you and you expect that from maybe your spouse, because you think it's just a walk in the park and you can just tell them, hey, just, you know, cook some biryani for me, right? Or some, you know, Moncef if, you know, whatever, whatever you're into, or you're Cabul if you're, if you're Afghan, and these are all different versions of the of the, you know, that rice dish, right?
And it doesn't, it doesn't pan out that way. And you get disappointed and, or you you, you know, you come from a Turkish family. And one thing in the SEC about can say about the Turkish ship of Ali is that they keep they maintain really beautiful, clean, hygienic homes, right? Correct me if I'm wrong, right, Turks are really big on that. That's not to say other cultures aren't but they're very, very big on that. I know when I'm in a Turkish home, right. And I love the experience. I mean, you know, I love many experiences, but but imagine like now, this Turkish brother, who's now marrying, say a woman who comes from a culture that doesn't value that, that that don't emphasize on
that. And then he's going to be thinking, Oh, my God, that's not how mom did it. That's not how we did things at home. And so there's, you know, use there's, there's a cultural clash there. Right. Are you ready for that? I've even discussed that you. And that's, and really what it comes down to, you know, when we're talking about divorce before and I've got a list of many different divorce reasons, or I've got about 15 reasons why people end up in divorce. But if I had to put a heading on all of those headings, it would be one heading made of two words and that is failed expectations.
That even if you say abuse, family interference, financial issues, intimacy issues, they all failed expectations. I expected you not to abuse me. I expected to that there's our intimate intimacy is going to be like this. I expected that you spend on on on this and that as well. So there's expectations