Channel: Ahmed Deedat
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in the name of Almighty God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful,
dear members of the audience, I find no better greetings to greet you than the universal greetings of peace. Assalamu Aleikum
which when translated means, may the peace and blessings of Almighty God be upon us all.
We apologize for the delay in starting. But there has been many requests
to hold for certain groups of people who have already left and are about to arrive. But unfortunately, we cannot hold on any longer.
It gives me great pleasure to welcome you one and all through this important discourse. And we trust that your participation tonight will be fruitful and rewarding.
Before we go any further, we begin tonight's discourse with a recitation from the Holy Quran by an aged but beautiful reciter of the Quran. Syed Abdul Qadir, who was born in Syria, but is presently resident in Cape Town. I call upon brother Kadir to recite a few verses of the Quran
boy on Arrow G.
boom rasuluh min
salam aleikum wa rahmatullah wa barakato.
Allah thank you
for the benefit of those who are not of the Islamic faith.
A reciter is called a half years
when he has committed to memory,
every verse of the Holy Quran.
This practice by Muslims has resulted in the Quran, maintaining its purity, as revealed to the Prophet Muhammad sallallahu alayhi wa sallam peace be upon him by Almighty God through the arch Angel gibreel.
Muslims firmly believe that the Holy Quran is the final word of God Almighty.
Brothers and sisters. Let me make three preliminary remarks before I call upon our respected speaker.
Tonight, tonight's address must be understood in its proper perspective.
This is not a contest or a debate with Christianity. But it is a sincere attempt
to expose and restore to its glory, a divinely ordained message for all mankind.
One merely has to refer to the following verses of the Quran.
To understand the seriousness of the obligations and duty on each and every Muslim in this regard,
the Quran says, and I can find no better authority than the Quran itself.
sutra 41 verse 33,
who is better in speech than one who calls men to God
works righteousness and says, I am of those who bow in Islam.
Another Surah Surah 16 verse 125 of the Holy Quran
and invite you all to the way of dialogue with wisdom and beautiful preaching, and discuss with them in ways that are best and most gracious.
For the Lord knows best, who have strayed from his path and who receive guidance.
the topic in discussion should enlighten us all, on the respected, revered and honorable position which Prophet Jesus
the Arabic terminology nebby Isa Ali Salaam, made the Peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, holes in the eyes of his of Islam and in the eyes of Muslims.
The Quran confirms and explains the miracle which surrounds his birth, life and his most noble ministry.
The Prophethood of Prophet Jesus knobbies Ali Salaam is the cornerstone of every Muslims belief.
The Myth of a Muslim being antichrist should clearly fall away tonight.
Finally, we are indeed fortunate to have with us as experienced and as knowledgeable a scholar as Mr. deedat to explore this vital aspect of our belief.
Mr. de.is, a well known personality not only locally, but internationally.
His early exchanges with preaches preachers and priests from Adams mission has turned him into a committed student, scholar and soldier of Islam.
I have pleasure in calling upon Mr. deedat to address you where after you will be free to ask him any question pertinent to the topic sakala Mr. DITA.
wa Salatu was Salam O Allah, Allah.
Allah, Allah Allah Ameen
Emory law in Allahabad, Ahmedabad, Mr. Chairman,
ladies and gentlemen,
just about three months ago,
to be exact, on the fifth of June
1983 on SABC TV.
At the end of a lively debate on Islam and Christianity, the chairman
Mr. Bill charmers commented,
I think it can be said from this discussion
that there is at present somewhat more accommodation on the slamming side for the founder of Christianity, then, on the Christian side for the founder of Islam,
what the significance of that is, we leave it to you.
The viewer, this was on TV is talking to his viewers and 2 million or more. So we leave it to you, the viewer to determine
but I do think
the channel has concluded but I do think you will agree that it is a good thing that we are talking together.
This was what Bill charmers
In his charming manner,
said about the attitude of the Muslims on the panel on concluding his program
from the feedback that I have received,
I can safely confide in you
that more than 90% of his audience, TV audience, who happened to be Christians,
they were pleasantly but skeptically surprised.
Most of them, they couldn't believe their own years.
The thinking that perhaps the Muslims were trying to
play to the gallery,
that they were trying to flatter the Christian fellow countrymen, being situated as we are, in this ocean of Christianity, South Africa, we happen to be less than 2% of the population, that we were so to say, trying to scratch the Christians back, trying to make them feel good, so that they in turn, might also say a few good words about our Muhammad.
But I can assure you, Mr. Chairman, ladies and gentlemen, that this was far from the thoughts of the Muslims on the panel.
Our Christian fellow countrymen are unaware
is the only non Christian faith
which makes it an article of faith for its followers to believe in Jesus.
No Muslim is a Muslim, if he does not believe in Jesus,
what we believe we are made to say from the Holy Quran, that we believe that Jesus was one of the mightiest messengers of God.
We believe that he was born miraculously, without any male intervention, which many modern day Christians don't believe today.
We believe that Jesus was the Messiah, the Christ. And we believe that he gave life to the dead by God's permission, and he was born blind, and the lepers by God's permission.
When I share this, with some of our fellow Christian countrymen, these, so to say are taken aback.
They are thinking that we are trying to curry favor with them, but it has to be shown to them, that whatever we Muslims say, we are saying this from our holy book, the Holy Quran,
in our own language,
we never take the name of this mighty messenger of God,
Hazrat Isa Alayhi Salam means revered Jesus May peace be upon him,
as our chairman did at the beginning,
referring to Jesus Christ, he kept on repeating hazard Isa hazard Isa meaning review Jesus review, Jesus or LA salam, if our learned men, Muslim learned men, if they speak about this mighty messenger of God.
Without these respectful terms, if he just said, Isa, Isa, which means Jesus, Jesus, the man would be thrown out from his job,
and could barbaric person taking a name of a mighty messenger of God, without this respectful, respectable terms.
Jesus Christ is mentioned
in the Holy Quran,
by the name Jesus, no less than 25 times.
Whereas the named Mohammed occur in this whole vast volume, only five times
20 more times Jesus is mentioned by name, then the name Muhammad. In this volume
he's spoken off
as it memoriam son of Mary, as mercy, the Messiah, Christ, as Rasulullah messenger of God of the law, servant of God,
as the Spirit of God, as the Word of God as the sign of God. These are all the respectable terms applied to this mighty messenger.
There is not a single statement in this vast volume, which one of the most jaundiced of Christians would take exception to.
Even the most mentally sick person will never be able to take exception to a single statement made about Jesus in this holy book, The Quran
the term that is used
is closer to the Africans. He says.
You see, this was his name in the original Hebrew he saw classical
This term Jesus is the latinized form of the Hebrew word Esau, they latinized it or hellenized it by adding a J
and an S to his name, which makes it sound, something more like Greek, or Roman, instead of Jewish that it was when he was born, he was named by his mother, he saw in Arabic, he
we call him the Christ, Jesus is the Christ, we have not another Christ.
When the first time this subject was mooted, in this very place, over a decade ago, Christ in Islam, there was consternation among the Christian missionaries.
They were thinking, that perhaps when I see Christ in Islam, that I might take out of my head, another Christ, or out of my pocket, another Christ.
I had to assure them them, them, then, as I show you now that we have not got another Christ, the Christ in Islam that we are talking about is Jesus Christ.
Some of our people think that the word Christ is synonymous with crucifixion.
Because the Christian always talks about Christ crucified, Christ crucified. So they think that these two are synonymous terms, Christ meaning crucified.
I want to assure them that this is a wrong concept that you have, if you have that.
The word Christ has got nothing to do with the word crucifixion, except that this is what the Christian is preaching.
This word Christ comes originally from the Hebrew word Messiah,
in Arabic, mercy,
in Arabic, mercy in Hebrew, Messiah, which means anointed.
Priest and kings were anointed in consecration to the position
as officially appointed.
The Greek word for anointed is crisscross.
From the word Christos, the Christians lot lopped off the off us, they cut it off, and they were left with Christ. So it seems like a unique name. Christ seems to be a unique name. Whereas this was a very common term among the Jews.
If you have your Bibles,
I will give you references in the booklet given to you. You'll find references there in the book of Isaiah chapter 45, verse one.
God Almighty is talking about his anointed Cyrus.
The word anointed in Greek would be Christos,
in Hebrew, it will be Messiah, his Messiah, Cyrus, his Christ, Cyrus, if you can lop off the US,
in the name of from Christos to Christ, then the same thing if you do, too, this one anointed in Greek, in the book of Isaiah chapter 45, verse one, you would have
And so many references anointed, you will find a priest, anointed priest means Christ priest.
A pillar was anointed.
The word in Hebrew or Greek would be Messiah, pillar, Christ pillar.
Christ preached Christ. pots and pans.
By God, no exaggeration, whatever I'm telling you word for word. There are 100 different places in the Old Testament where you will find the word anointed, anointed, anointed in the original Messiah, Messiah, Messiah. translated into Greek Christ, Christ crystals crystals crystals.
Now, that does not in any way be literal Jesus Christ, Christ was anointed, appointed by God Almighty for his position he is posed as a reformer among the Jews.
idea about Christ in Islam comes from Christ in the Quran.
In the Holy Quran,
If you open the index,
most specially the one
I have here with me the Holy Quran by Abdullah Yusuf Ali.
The table that is set outside the company, they are selling this. The propagation Center has it, the Islamic book Center has it. And this book is being in
we have a word for it we say hodja. But in English, I can't help saying that it is being sold for seven runs 50 cents,
the volume of 2000 pages there is not another book on earth and encyclopedia that you can buy today. 2000 pages for seven runs 50
it is available absolutely free to every school, college and university and Public Library. Every Muslim mothers are free from the Islamic Propagation center. And if you can't afford it,
free to you, you have to write in tell us why we should give you one for nothing.
Nobody has an excuse anymore for being without this book. You get this book and open the index right at the back.
And in the index you'll find the subject Jesus and the J on page 187.
Jesus a righteous Prophet, chapter six, verse 85. His birth is described in two places. He's apostle to Israel, his disciples taken up like Adam, not crucified no more than apostle, not God sent with gospel, not Son of God and on and on and on.
15 different chapters in the Quran speak about this mighty messenger of God, Jesus Christ.
But for our purpose tonight, let us begin at the beginning.
I open for you which you can open at home in this book, chapter three verse 42.
This is how it reads.
What is Allah Tila mala Katayama Maria mo? Behold, the angel said, Oh Mary, in Nala hasta faki Vata Hauraki Mustapha kehlani, Cylon I mean, that God Almighty has chosen the and purified the chosen the above the women of all nations
chosen marry above the women of all nations, I say such an honor is not to be found given to marry the mother of Jesus even in the Christian Bible. It continues
Jamar Giamatti lira BK was do the work Mr. Ratan O'Meara oshi dialogue devoutly prostrate myself and bow down in prayer with those who bow down.
Valley come in number 11 A B movie Laika. This is part of the tidings of the things unseen which we reveal into the apostle by inspiration
lahmacun tala de him this punakha Lama. Sadat was not with them when they cast lotted with arrows as to which of them should be charged with the care of Mary
yaku Maria ma lahmacun tala de him is justice imune. Nor was that with them when they disputed the point.
The story is
that the mother of Mary, she was barren.
And she prayed to God, for a child.
Like Zechariah. Also in his old age, he prayed for a child.
And john the baptist was born.
This mother of Mary she also praised for a child, and in the mercy of God, she conceived and a child was born.
And the child was married.
She was yearning for a male child a boy. But instead of a boy, it girl is born. And she had dedicated she had vowed to dedicate this child for temple services, and the female is in no way like the male.
She was disappointed.
But what was she to do?
She died at a time when the child was big enough
to be handed over to the temple for looking after the temple looking after the priests. She takes this little child Mary, and there was a dispute in the temple. Everybody wanted this beautiful child to be a godfather to this little child
and there was a dispute everybody wants a child. So they started casting lots. Like what we say hero tail like the passing of the coin
and it came to the turn of Zechariah the father of the
that he it came to his turn and there was a dispute among the people that said, No, you are cheating. You know how we usually do when you lose? You say you are cheating, there was a dispute. Now God Almighty is reminding us through the lips of His Holy Prophet Muhammad, that you will not they
Omaha Matt, you will know when they cast lots with arrows, no way you they, when they disputed the point. Where did you get this information from?
The answer is in the course itself. Valley cam in ambala, a B, mu z Laika these are part of the tidings of the things and seeing which we reveal unto the apostle by inspiration is given by inspiration
by God Almighty,
but the controversialist,
the propagandists, the opponents of Muhammad, the opponents of Islam, they say no, Muhammad concocted this.
He copied his book from the Jews and the Christians.
He says this is given to me by inspiration. They say no, this is his own handiwork.
For the sake of argument
I will agree with the enemies of Islam who say Muhammad wrote the book for the sake of argument, knowing full well that this is not his work. We are assured in the Holy Quran Allah says while manticore and El Hawa that he does not speak from his own desire in Hawaii,
it is no less than inspiration sent down to him a llama Lucia de Beauvoir, he's taught by one mighty in power. Knowing full well, that this is an inspirational revelation from God. For the sake of argument, we will agree with the enemy that Muhammad wrote the book.
In return, I'm only asking something very simple, very easy. I want you to agree with me, friend and foe alike, that Muhammad was an error.
And the difficulty.
The only thing I want you to agree with me is that Muhammad was an Arab, that he was not an Indian. He was not an African. He was not a Chinese, he was not an Eskimo.
Am I asking too much
that Mohammed was an error. That's
this Arab is telling other Arabs,
that a Jew is the mother of Jesus. She was chosen above the women of all nations.
Why would he want to go out of his way and provoke his own people?
Why should he do that?
When the Jews were looking down upon the Arab brethren for 3000 years,
they were insinuating that Father Abraham had two wives, Sarah and Hagar.
And they are the children of Sarah, through Isaac.
And the Arabs are the children of hogger through Ishmael and sh they are an inferior breed of people who the Arabs, but they are children of a bond woman and African woman. You know, they have been racist from the beginning. The very same Jews, they murmured against Moses, when he took that Ethiopian wife is in the Bible. And God struck Miriam with leprosy. And she was not healing if she repented, because of her racism.
The same attitude towards an Arab brother, that these are the children of bondwoman
looked down upon them for 3000 years, and yet this Arab, Mohammed with peace and blessings of God be upon him. He is saying that address the mother of Jesus, she was chosen about the women of all nations, not his own mother, or his wife, or his daughter, Fatima, Muslims believe will be the leader of the women of paradise. No.
Mary, the mother of Jesus, was a woman chosen about the women of all nations, I say, account for that
account for it, why should an Arab go out of his way and provoke his own people and honor this dress?
as some would say, a woman from his opposition,
a nation who opposes the Arabs, why should he do that? Unless he was commanded to say so to do so, which actually, this is what he says that this is given to me by inspiration. It is not what I want to say or what I feel like saying this is given to me and I have no alternative but to give it to you as I received the message
was 45 chapter three, verse 45. It continues
excuse me, lady, there will be time for questions that the speaker carry on at the end of the session will give you an opportunity, please that the speaker carry on
chapter three, verse 45. It continues the birth of Jesus is called Athena mala Katayama Yama, behold, the angel said or marry in Allah Maha
Yuga shiraki Kalamata min Whoa, that Allah gives you glad tidings good news. Have a word from him. His whole mercy his name will be the Messiah. Translated Christ is mahalo mercy. He said, No, Maruyama, Jesus, the son of Mary, washing hands with dunya, while ophira held in honor in this world, and in the Hereafter, why mineral makara been in the company of those nearest to God?
What the Christian would say, sitting on the right hand of God. Many people misunderstand
thinking that God Almighty is sitting on a glorified chair, a throne, and Jesus Christ on another little chair by side, like a little flea, or a molecule. Imagine if God Almighty sitting on a throne physically,
then Jesus, you know, he wouldn't be even a speck?
No non know, what it means is in eastern languages, when we say sitting on my right hand, it doesn't literally mean sitting on my right hand is a position of respect.
The Quran says that he will be in the company of those nearest to God, physically, not geographically, spiritually,
with NASA, and He will speak to the people, Phil mahadi in childhood, and immaturity
wamena solea and he shall be of the company of the righteous.
This is a prophecy. The good news is being given that your child has an infant He will speak and as a grown up normally naturally, but as an infant, in childhood,
he will be gifted.
And we find the fulfillment of this prophecy, within months of this good Annunciation was being made to her within months. And we find this in the Holy Quran.
In a chapter called surah, Maryam
meaning chapter, Mary. This chapter 19, is named in honor of the mother of Jesus Christ.
Surah Maryam chapter Mary,
in this whole vast volume,
there is no chapter in the name of Muhammad's mother or his wife, or his daughter, can you imagine? But the chapter 19 is in honor of the name of the mother of Jesus
sutra, Maria, Chapter 19.
It tells us
was 20 7am starting,
that after the birth of the child, the circumstances being peculiar, she had retired to a remote place in the east, there is no Joseph the carpenter in the Quran.
You know, Joseph the carpenter. There's no mention about Joseph the carpenter here. This is a miraculous birth, and it speaks about it miraculously.
There is no genealogy of Jesus.
Like we find in them in the New Testament, in the Gospel of St. Matthew and the Gospel of St. Luke, between the two, they give this man mighty messenger of God 66 fathers and grandfathers
A child that was born miraculously they go out of the way to give him a genealogy. The Quran does not speak about any genealogy. It does not mention shows of the carpenter or any other carpenter.
So the circumstances of the conception being peculiar was immaculate. She retired to a remote place in the East says the Quran and after the birth of the child she returns
shamelessly, of course, carrying the little child infant in her arms.
For that to be he called Maha Mudra. Who, at length she brought the babe to her people carry him in her arms. Lou, they said, Yeah, Maryam Mary Lata Ji Cheyenne Faria. The truly an amazing
Held abroad, they are shocked, knowing full well that she was not married. Where did you bring this child from? The insinuating illegitimate child? Where did you get the child? shamelessly parading in the village?
Yo Haruna so sister of Harun come in such a noble ancestry
of the children of our own the brother of Moses, the Levi's, the priestly class among the Jews. You come from such a priestly and noble family. Yo Haruna Makana Abu Kimura so in Ramadan, Mubarak Baba say your father was not a man of evil, no die mother, a woman and chaste insinuating we did you bring this illegitimate child from? What did she do?
Would they listen to her explanation? Would you listen to your daughter's explanation? If she tells you says Daddy, you know I heard some voices. And now this child was born you will believe
ever in no mood to listen to such stories? What was she to do?
She merely pointed to the bait for our Shara la says the Quran she merely pointed to the child has asked him she knew that this was no ordinary child asked him
woman can I feel must be Serbia, DC How can we talk to one with a child in the cradle a baby an infant Afghan Republic and by a miracle. He spoke from his mother's arms and defended his mother against an unbelieving audience. He says
Paula ini Abdullah law so most certainly I am the servant of Allah. Al Kitab. He has given me revelation which alanine abbia he has made me a prophet
was named Mubarak and a nama to
me this Allah sala de voz de cada Madame Casa de la lista de la la mujer, de Jabbar and shafia
He said, I am indeed a servant of God. He had given me a revelation and made me a prophet. And he had made me blessed with so ever I be so.
And he has made enjoined on me prayer and charity as long as I live, and he has made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable.
He has made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable. This is the first miracle that Jesus Christ performed. According to this holy book of Islam.
He defended his mother against an unbelieving audience, as an infant from his mother's arms.
I want you to compare this first miracle of Jesus with the first miracle that Jesus Christ performed, according to the Holy Bible.
You know what miracles he performed. It was at the marriage feast at Cana, you read in the Gospel of St. JOHN,
that Jesus and his disciples had gone there. And they ran short of wine,
So his mother comes to him. This is my son, knowing that he's got that mysterious powers. God had given him powers, spiritual powers, that he can perform miracles. So she comes to him. He says, My child, these people have run out of wine. Do something for them.
So Jesus response is a woman. Woman. What have I to do with the My time is not yet.
But persuaded. He turns water into wine. And since then, wine has flowed like water interesting them.
our beautiful country, our good people spend 2000 million Rand on alcohol.
Last year, our good people spend 2000 million Rand on gambling.
And yet, you see on TV again and again, some program or the other about spastics about the cripples about the blind. They haven't got enough money. We haven't got enough money. The government hasn't got enough money.
To 2000 million responded on alcohol alone.
Last year in our country,
the first miracle in the Quran, he defends his mother. As an infant, the first miracle in the Bible, he turns water into wine.
Going back to the Annunciation, we had reached was the 4546 was
47 when this good news was given to me about the birth of a Holy Son, she says,
Well, I don't mean Bashar. She says, Oh my Lord, how shall I have a son when no man has touched me?
So the angel says in reply, Allah cazalla, Kilauea Jolla, Masha, even so Allah create what he will.
Ameren, whenever he decrees a matter, nama kulula, who can
say whenever he decrees a matter, he merely says, Be be any DS. This is the Muslim concept of the birth of Jesus forgot to create a Jesus without a human father, he merely wills it and nothing comes into being if he wants to create a million Jesus's without father without mother, he merely has to move them into being. This is what we believe about the omnipotence of God in Islam.
I had the occasion of sharing this with Reverend, the head of the site in Johannesburg.
I had gone to Johannesburg on one of my usual trips, and I went to the Bible house, I was interested in an Indonesian Bible, I have reason for that.
So I went and got one they did urban Bible house didn't have it. So I go to Johannesburg and I found the Bible in the Indonesian language. And while browsing through
a large volume, larger than this, a large volume New Testament Greek in English,
side by side,
Greek, Greek and English.
So while handling that, I didn't know
that I was being observed.
The head of the Bible Society walks up to me seeing my funny headgear.
And my beard, he was attracted, or he felt that it was a challenge in the Bible house. So he comes up to me and starts the conversation is a my interest in such an expensive volume. So I told him, I was interested in comparative religion, and has something special that I wanted to look for inside. So he invites me for a cup of tea into his office. I accepted, very kind of
at his table, having tea with him, I started telling him my interest in this subject, that we Muslims, we believe in Jesus, we believe that he was one of the mightiest messengers of God, and I know what I told you.
And the men seem to be skeptical. You see, only retired, a reverence can become heads of Bible Societies. He was much older than me, then.
I don't know whether he's still alive forever in tankers.
He was skeptical. So I started reading to him the Quran in Arabic and giving him the translation, beginning based on Attila Malika to Yama Yama to behold the angel said, Oh, Mary, and on and on and on.
By the time I reached this
verse, that forgot to create, he merely wills it and the thing comes into being, and God will appoint him as an apostle to the children of Israel, teaching him the law and the gospel, and that he will give life to the dead by God's permission, and he was born blind and the lepers by God's permission.
Reverend Angus was elated. He says, you know, this is the same as in my book.
What I'm reading to him from the Quran, by heart, but I had known he says, This is the same in my book in the Bible. I said yes, on the face of it, it is the same
process you know, if we analyze it intently you will find that the difference between what you have been reading in the Bible and what I'm reading to you is chalk and cheese.
You know, this expression chalk and cheese did not Americans didn't understand.
You see, because they are not used to chalk anymore. They say crayon crayon. So, when you say chalk and cheese, the younger generation never heard the word chalk.
Means poles apart, directly opposite one to the other. chalk and cheese is you know, how can you say that I said, Look, I will demonstrate it to you the difference on the face of it. If a Christian comes across what I have spoken just now
written in English without the Arabic text, pieces of paper with these verses that I have quoted to you now, he picks it up in 1000 years the Christian will never get his reading the Quran in 1000 years. If he reads
What I have read to you, he will say perhaps this is the Jehovah's Witness version, if he hasn't seen one, perhaps is the Roman Catholic version if he hasn't seen one better the New World Translation and so on and on the Living Bible, if he hasn't seen one, he'll never guess is reading the Quran is going so close one with the other.
But I said when you compare is chalk and cheese. So what do you see? Well, what you find is a look, when the good news was given to marry the mother of Jesus. In the New Testament, in the Bible,
she says, How can this thing be when I know not a man mean physically?
I know not a man
in the Quran says,
Well, I mean, certainly Bashar, she says, Oh my Lord, how can I have a son when no man has touched me, means the same thing. cent percent means the same thing. The only difference is his choice of words, whether no man has touched me, or I know not a man both meaning physically sex.
But the replies to these
question offers is revealing.
We are told in the Gospel of St. Luke, that the angel said, and the Holy Ghost will come upon thee.
And the power of the Most High will overshadow the
I'm only quoting
I'm killing the Reverend dunkers that you are giving a stick to the atheist, the agnostic, the communists to beat you with?
Because he will ask you how did the Holy Ghost come upon Mary? How?
How did your mighty overshadow her? How we know it doesn't mean that we know it is metaphorical, but the language
is down to earth.
language, Holy Ghost coming upon her and the power of the Messiah overshadowing her.
In the Holy Quran, the same thing is being spoken. But
the language is tada Ameren, whenever he decrees a matter for in Amaya kulula kokoon. For yakun he merely says we'd be an ET for God to create, he merely wills it and the thing comes into being it is not necessary for the Holy Ghost or anybody to come upon Mary or overshadow her.
and the eminent Billingham some years ago in Kings Park, I was there with my secretary Mr. banker, then we were there. And he dramatize this birth of Jesus. He said, and the Holy Ghost came and impregnated Mary, this is how he did it.
the Holy Quran says for God to create the milk and the thing comes into play. But what that's this miraculous birth through, does that make him into a god?
Or be God to Son of God? We say no, the Quran says masala Isa in the law, e commerce aljada Ma, he says the similitude of Jesus in the sight of God is like that of Adam.
salata who mentor Robin, He created him from dust, so mattarella, who,
and he said to me was,
if Jesus becomes God, or the Begotten Son of God, because he had no earthly father, then Adam would be a greater God, because there are no father, no mother.
This is the argument.
If this makes Jesus God, because he had no earthly father, then in that case, whose father was and who was Adam, Father,
so he is more pre eminently God's Son
than Jesus. This is what the Quran says. And you believe everybody believes that Adam was created without a father without mother. But the Christian missionary, he says, No, you see, Adam was made from the dust of the ground, he was created, but Jesus was begotten.
He was begotten by God.
And I have been asking limit people,
the master of theologies the reverence as an excuse me, please, will you please explain to me when you say the cotton not made, what are you trying to emphasize?
I want you to tell me what you are really trying to tell me. You said we gotten not made and believe me in 40 years, I haven't come across a single learned English man who had ventured out to explain to me what it means. Not that they don't know.
But it's a horrifying thought. You're trying to articulate because
Not made. I said, explain what it means. It has to be an American. They have the guts the Americans,
an American when I posed the question, he said it mean sired by God.
It's a no, no, no, I don't mean that you asked me what it means I'm only explaining what it means means sired by God.
But Adam was made from the dust of the ground.
So I said, Look, there is another Superman, in your book, the Bible.
In the book of Hebrews,
chapter seven, book of Hebrews, that is the name of a book of the Holy Bible.
Book of Hebrews, chapter seven, it speaks about Melchizedek,
the high priest of salam, salam, salam, Islam, the high priest of solemn,
to whom Abraham gives tights, taxes, he paid his Zakat to this priest. And Paul tells us that without father, without mother,
without beginning, without end, without dissent, made like unto the Son of God, no father, no mother, no in no beginning, no end, and no dissent.
Certainly No, who can that be, except God Himself. Only God could have no beginning and no end. Adam had a beginning. And he had an end, Jesus had an apparent he had a beginning in the stable. We are told in the Gospel of St. Louis, that when he was eight days old, he was circumcised and named Jesus by the angel when he was in his mother's womb.
So if he was in his mother's womb, that means he had a beginning.
And according to the Christians, he gave up the coast on the cross. So he had an apparent end.
This man Melchizedek, no father, no mother, no dissent, no beginning no end, as a worship Him.
The man deserves to be worshipped.
But nobody seems to have heard of him. It is an amazing thing. When I showed this to the learned men of Christianity, as I look at this, and they seem to be seeing it for the first time.
Never saw it before
you read it, what are you reading?
I'm asking the Reverend said between these two versions.
The one the Quranic version of the birth of Jesus, and the other the biblical version of the birth of Jesus, I asked him, which would you prefer to give to your daughter,
and he bowed his head in humility, and he said, I would prefer to give the Quranic version.
Men was honest, he was humble.
I would prefer to give the Quranic version. But people don't want to have access to this book. They don't want to see they don't touch it. I have some sick people in my office this morning.
As a pastor
of the Pentecostal church this morning in my office
and I'm asking whether he's seen the Quran he says, No. I said, Look, you haven't read the Quran? He says, No, I don't want to touch it. I don't want to see it. I said, Look, this book 1000 million people in the world today who take this as a book of authority, even out of curiosity, you ought to see this book. If you want to understand the mentality of these 1000 million people. Common Sense demands that you see the book, common sense. Your to know what the guy's thinking, what he's talking about, shall never touch it
will never touch it. So sick people, sickness yawn remedy.
I said, just from the worldly point of view, look in our universities, they are teaching our children to analyze Das Kapital by Karl Marx. in the country. The book is Ben
Das Kapital by Karl Marx is banned. But in our universities, our students have to study it. They want to know how to get better to that sickness. If we are sick, the Muslims if you are sick, if you want to understand our sickness, then here is the book. It will tell you what we are talking why we are putting the things that we are talking. But if you don't have access to this book, if you don't want to see this book, how will you know how are you going to get better to the sickness?
Nobody is a sickness, that sickness is a sickness beyond repair.
So what makes the our main difference the main difference between the Muslim and the Christian
is the divinity of Christ. Look, we say he was one of the mightiest messengers of God. He was born miraculous. He gave life to the dead by God's permission. He was born blind in the
By God's permission, we are going to get
the Muslim and the Christian is going to get
the Parting of the Ways is when the Christian say that Jesus Christ is God Almighty Who came down to earth as a man. He is God incarnate. God taking human flesh.
We Muslims, we say God does not incarnate, he doesn't take human form.
This is our battle.
So what makes him look his birth? If it is his birth, then Adam is greater than Jesus. If it is birth, Melchizedek is greater than Jesus.
These are all false standards.
I agree, you'll agree. These are false standards of judging, but if you bring these standards, false standards, so look according to your own standards, you will lose, you will come out second best. So what makes him gone?
I was speaking to Reverend Dr. Morris,
of the Presbyterian Church in Canada, he, he had come to South Africa on a visit. And I had taken him to the golden peacock in Durban. Not the harangue here in Durban, there's a golden peacock, beautiful restaurant.
I taken them for lunch. And at the table, I was telling us a look, we believe in Jesus, all these things about this mighty messenger of God. The only real difference is this, the divinity and for that, I said, Look, you have no authority. There is not a single verse in the whole vast volume of the Bible. 66 books. There is not a single verse, where you find it an equi vocally written, Jesus says, I am God or varices worship me there isn't. I said there is nowhere in the Bible where he says me and the God Almighty are one in the same person.
And that tickled his memory.
these words of mine tickled his memory. He said he did.
I said when I said I am prepared to accept I know that Jesus will never lie. If he says he is God, I am prepared to accept Him as God. If he says worship Me, I am prepared to worship him. I don't speak for my brother. And my sister, I speak for myself.
Because if there was such a thing, if Jesus made such a claim, I submit unreservedly
will does he say? He said no, he did say so what he said, I am a father of one.
Jesus did say, I and My Father are one.
So I'm asking the Reverend Dr. Morris, Didi.
I said what is the context?
They start staring at me, the biryanis there.
He kept on staring at me. I said, Why don't you know what is the context? As you see what you quoted is the text.
JOHN, Chapter 10, verse 30, text, I want the context, the text that goes with it before or after?
What is the context?
And the man kept on staring at me
as if he didn't understand English.
He is DD
says, he said, Do you know the context is asking me. I said, Of course I know the context. So what is the context? So Well, let us start from john on that same chapter 10, verse 23.
So we start,
usually, my Christian Brethren, as soon as you ask for something, they have a Bible under the under take it out, put the Bible away. You know what your look, if you quoted me, well, surely, you know, man, in what sense? He made that utterance, put the Bible down. He didn't have a Bible, nor did I.
So what is the context as a john we start from was 23 it read, and Jesus walked in Solomon's porch, meaning in the temple of Jerusalem alone. I don't know why he was tempting the devil walking alone, you know, he had condemned for the formalism, the ceremonial ism, the going for the letter of the law of forgetting the spirit is that you do portraits, you generational wipers, you Whitechapel because you wicked, an adulterous generation. These are all these beautiful avatars he had thrown at them.
And a little while before he had gone into the temple and he made a whip, not a weapon. He started whipping the people and he upset the money exchanges, tables and upset their money.
when you do things like that,
People have it in for you. And the Jews, were not in hurry to forget
the manner in which he had condemned them the way you treated them. Now he's alone. No disciples with him alone.
He says, Then came the Jews round about him means surrounded him.
Naturally, they got an opportunity of a lifetime,
is able to pluck them out of my hand was 28.
The rich was 28 was 29, neither shall any man pluck them out of my father's hand,
was 30. I and My Father are one
new man will pluck them out of my hand, neither shall any men pluck them out of my father's hand. I and My Father are one in this to see that once a person has accepted faith, I as a teacher, I see to me that the man remains in faith and God Almighty also seems to be the person remains in faith. I and My Father are one in this to see the man doesn't go astray. Where is he talking about? He's God Almighty. He's the omnipotent, omniscient with the unknowing way.
This is the oneness. Look at the verse 28. Look at verse 29, and say, This is the oneness.
But the Jews were looking for trouble. They wanted to get their own back. So they picked up stones again to stone him.
So Jesus says, many good works I showed you from my father, for which of those words do the stony
so they say, for a good word, please don't do not but for blasphemy making COVID because that thou, being a man make us that self, a god, you're a man and you claiming to be God, therefore we want to kill you, we want to stone you.
So Jesus says, Is it not written in your law? law? The Hebrew word for law is Torah. In the Old Testament, the five books of Moses, is it is it not written in your law? I said, he Our God is quoting from the 82nd song where God says, Behold, he called the jewel all of your gods. And all of you are the children of the Most High
he's quoting, he says, Is it not written in your law is fantastic? Is it not his law? Also? Of course it is. But since you are arguing and debating with him, is it in your law? Is it not written such and such.
And the scripture cannot be broken, meaning you can contradict me. You can contradict me what I'm telling you. It's there man, in your book, have a look. See of him the father of sanctified and sent him to the world that the blasphemous because I said, I'm the son of God. It means nothing meant to say I'm the son of God means nothing. God has got sons by the tongues in the Bible. It's a metaphorical statement. godly people are called sons of God, and he's got them by the tons.
No exaggeration. I'm not exaggerating by the time. He's got sons. Metaphorically. God doesn't beget metaphorically, we are all his children.
Is it not written in your law such and such? So even if I said, I'm God,
according to the Jewish usage, there's nothing wrong with it.
But I'm only claiming to be a son of God.
But the Jews were looking for trouble when you see, and when you're looking for a fight, or any excuse will do.
Wait as he say, God, wait, as you say, wish. So the DD had another idea. He said, you know, in the first chapter of john, chapter one, verse one,
it says, In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. And that word is Jesus. So his God,
I am asking, Where did Jesus say that he is God? Or where did he say worship Me? These are the words of a Jewish philosopher called phylo. Long before Jesus was born, he wrote this in his own book, this hour, john, or whoever he was, he plagiarized it, he stole that man's writing. And he put it into the New Testament, in his own gospel,
plagiarized it, word for word. But never. Whatever Fido had in his mind. We won't go into that. I'm asking the Reverend. I say do you know Greek?
He said, Yes, I did Greek for five years before qualification.
I said, in that case, you can help me. I say In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God. So what is the Greek word for God?
And he started staring at me.
It seemed as if the game was up.
I said the word there is who chose him.
geek and host just means God, which you put a capital G
proper. Now, you see the Western nations they have a system, that when you have a common noun, you put a small letter. And when you have a proper noun you put a capital letter, you know that
small letter, proper noun, capital letter.
So, for God, it becomes proper, definite article, so they put a capital G, very good, that's your system.
But as and the Word was God,
what is the Greek word Therefore, God,
no answer as a strong clause means a god. And for a God means any God means that godly person is to have a small G.
But that says, You know what? In two Corinthians four, four in the Bible,
it says here, and that devil is the god of this world, that devil is the god of this world. And in Greek, the word is who to
the God. I said, Why did you give the devil a small g? Why are you calling him a capital G?
So why do you play fast and loose with the book of God? You whenever it suits you, whatever suits you, you know, you put capital letters very suits you and small letters when it suits you. God Almighty speaks to Moses and says, Behold, I have made you a god to Pharaoh, and Aaron, that brother shall be the Prophet, a god to Pharaoh, and you give Moses a small g y.
For the word, wr the word they put a capital G. But for Moses, they give a small g in the Bible.
So why do you do that? Isn't I didn't do it. You didn't do it.
But I said, The vested interest that you represent, why do you play fast and loose with the work of God? If this is the book of God? Why do you play fast and loose with it?
This is it. This is our complaint. Why aren't you consistent?
Because if you are consistent, perhaps all these problems wouldn't arise between us.
the only thing
that is left, that can make Jesus God as the Christian say, is that he gave life to the dead. And this is the prerogative of God. Very true. He is to the storm. The Quran doesn't go into any details about his miracles. The only detail is about him speaking as an infant, that's the only detail the rest is it tells us that he gave life to the dead by God's permission. He was born blind in the lepers by God's permission.
He gave to life to the dead by God's permission, we accept, but the details, no details in the Quran, the Quran is not a book of stories.
It only tells us where there is a difference. It tells us how to combine.
So Jesus gave life to the dead, we say by God's permission.
But if you take this to confer divinity, there are others in the Bible who perform greater miracles than Jesus. If this is the highest miracle,
giving life to the dead, I say it is an impossibility.
And because it is an impossibility, if it is done, it's a miracle. A miracle is an impossibility.
Versus, you know, a greater impossibility than giving life back life back to the dead is to take a piece of stick.
like Moses did a piece of stick around. And he turned it into a vegetable kingdom life, million rupees of vegetable and that vegetable immediate interest rate, Animal Kingdom. And this snake went and swallowed up all the snakes and Egyptians. I say greater than Jesus.
Then Alicia, you know the rotten bones of Elisha, they were burying a man. And when this box, this dead body came into contact with the rotten bones of Elisha, it revive the corpse back to life.
Alicia's rotten bones didn't have to say Sally Sakuma them solarized or Lazarus come out, didn't have to do that. Just mere touch. This is the Bible. The Holy Bible tells us the very touch of the rotten bones of Elisha, but the man back to life. Who is greater ask you if these are the standards of judging? These are false standards of teaching Christ told us is that for they shall arise many false prophets and false Christ who will show you great signs and wonders if it were possible to deceive the very elect. These are not the tests of a true man or a false man. Even false prophets and false guys can do miracles. Whereas john the baptist, the greatest of the Israelite prophets,
according to Jesus, he said Jesus said among those born women, they have not
There isn't another greater than john the baptist. And yet john the baptist perform no miracles whatsoever. These are not the standard of judging
greatness of smallness of a messenger of God. But since they insist that Christ gave life back to Lazarus, after three days or four days, a man was thinking in his brain.
And he brought him back from the dead, as well, let's analyze it who did the works? Who did the job? did Jesus do it? Did he do it? Did he say he did it?
We learn from the scriptures Gospel of St. JOHN. Unfortunately, john is the only one who records this miracle. Imagine.
Matthew, Mark, and Luke, they have not one word about Lazarus.
Not one word about Lazarus. This is a mighty as miracle of Jesus, but met you didn't know anything about it. Mark didn't know anything about it. Luke knew nothing about it.
All right, let's see what john tells us. He tells us that Lazarus was sick, and he died. And Jesus was not there. When it comes to the village.
The sisters of Lazarus, Martha and Mary, they tell him he says Master, you know, if you were here with us, our brother would not have died. Meaning if you can heal other people's sicknesses, perhaps my brother sickness would not have been unto death. So Jesus tells us I'm assure them that even now if you have faith, you will see the glory of God, not my glory, glory of God, even now.
This is related to show me where have you laid him? So they start taking Jesus to the grave, separate amigurumi chamber.
And while walking, he's trying to come. He's praying to God. And the Bible tells us Jesus wept, shorter sentence in the Bible towards
shorter sentence, you can remember that Jesus wept.
And he groomed in the spirit, what is grown in the spirit? I'm asking what is grown in the spirit. In other words, he was actually communicating with God.
The words Inaudible. They couldn't make out in current.
Sporting out of favor, oh, my Lord, my friend, Lazarus.
He's crying. And sobbing. The words are not clear enough for the bystanders to listen. So this is groaning.
groaning, no groaning, this is his pouring his heart out to God.
We do the same when you're trying out something. The words are not heard properly. But the sounds like a grown up no groaning spray.
And God assures him
that he'll get what he wants. He wants to bring Lazarus out from the dead. That's his wish.
And when he gets the assurance, he says remove the stone. So they remove the stone.
And he lifts up his eyes towards heaven.
Now they can hear what he has to say is that oh my father, I knew that that has heard me what I've grown to was praying to God. I know that that has heard me and I know that that here has been always everything that I did was on account of you hearing me listening to answering my prayers. And I know that that he has always but because of the people that stood by this superstitious credulous people, they will think that I'm a god. Because of these people, I said it and putting up an act, talking loudly that they may know who's doing the work.
And I knew that that hears me always. But because of the people that stood by I said it that they may believe that God has sent me you are doing the works.
He says it is God's being the works. The Quran says it is God who is doing the work. Peter testifies in the book of Acts to the Jews is the man of Israel. all Jews hear these words, Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs which God did by him.
God did by him in the midst of you which you yourself also know.
is not Moses is not Mohammed is God who is doing the work, glorify God. And we read in the Scripture, when Jesus performed the miracle, somebody rightfully remarked, glory to God, for giving such powers and to men Glory to God. This is a real
attitude of a man of God, glorifying God, not man.
What makes him God?
We are told in the Holy Quran to tell the Jews and the Christians
on the subject of Jesus, why are we interfering in the subject? People want to know why do you want to talk about Jesus? What have you got to do with Christ?
I said, we have
everything to do with Christ. Look
when Islam came
to the forefront when Muhammad the prophet of God declared his mission mission,
he was surrounded by Jews and Christians. And these Jews and Christians they have certain religious ideas about Jesus. The Jew said that because he's got no earthly father, he's the illegitimate child of Mary. The Christian said because they can't he's got no earthly father his father is God.
One said he was the illegitimate child of Mary in the other city is the Son of God.
On the same basis that he's got no father.
What are we to say? Mama claims to be the recipient of a divine revelation guidance for people for mankind. So he's made to say, Tell them lol kita people love the book, or Jews and Christians or learned people you you claim to have been in possession if
you call it the Torah. Call it the songs you call it. The New Testament you have people of learning, Lata lofi Dini. He said do not go to extremes in your religion don't go to extremes, while otaku Allah Allah.
And don't say anything about God accept the truth. In mlmrc, most certainly the Messiah, he said no Mariama, Jesus, the son of Mary Rasulullah is a messenger of Allah wa Kalamata, who, in a word proceeding from him, ha, era Maria Maria, who mean whom we see bestowed upon Mary and a spirit proceeding from him. farmina la hora su de so believe in Allah and His messengers. This is what the Muslim is made to say, we have to take a stand, and we are forced now. We haven't done the job. This is what we have been reading. We have possession, possession of this book, this instruction for 1400 years, but we haven't delivered the message. So the Christian is coming and knocking at our door.
He's telling us that he is trying to push Christ down our throats, that Christ died for your sin.
Jesus is the only begotten Son we got not made. We have to talk to him. Can you see whether you like it or not? There are 35,000 full time missionaries in Africa at the present moment, raising the past 35,000 missionaries, Crusader
priests, passenger predictions, missionaries, Crusaders, in Pakistan, in Bangladesh, in Indonesia, they are knocking at our doors, you must know where you stand.
shouldn't be like doormats people coming along. And using you as a doormat using you as a punching bag making mistake in your head. Because you don't know it's about time that you picked up the book and became familiar with your own stand. What does the Quran say? And get familiar with what the man is talking about? Whether you know that when he's quoting you say, look, what is the context asked him. And you see, the poor man knows nothing. He's only programmed with only certain verses. If you know that amount.
He can steal your children. They're stealing your children. Now they're going I'm telling you.
We are too lackadaisical.
We can afford to lose one. Why should we?
This is what you owe to yourself. So the question was to himself, you must familiarize with it. If he wants to talk to us, he will be able to talk better, he'll understand our sickness, or our health better by doing a book. He needs a book. And we Muslims, we also have to familiarize and for that I have given you this books, easy study and reference this little thing here. you master this and you mastered it all. You don't have to swallow this whole book 66 books of the Bible and encyclopedia. You don't have to swallow that. Nobody the Christian doesn't know it himself. He doesn't like so you don't have to take all that trouble. You take these little pamphlets of mine, and men, familiarize
yourself with what it says. And I tell you there is no missionary born will be able to shake you
do it yourself
and go out and show them preach to them to solve a problem sitting at home on
alibaba.org lavaredo Barrett, Allah told his 1400 years ago, he sent this telegram and we are still sitting on it like a cobra on this telegrams addressed to the Jews and the Christians. The Quran says Cole tell them yeah, lol kita op de la comme illa kalimat in Sabah in banana verbena calm that we come to common terms as between us and you. Come on, let us get onto a common platform. Call them the Jews and the Christians let us get onto a common platform and the term
of getting together law Buddha law that we worship men but Allah, Allah and Misha he Shay and and that we associate new partners with him. What are you talking about and Ababa, new law and that we do not take from among ourselves lords and patrons other than Allah, tala, Baku, Shadow Vietnam, Muslim moon,
tell them that we at least are Muslims. We have submitted our wills for the will of God, whatever God wants us to do, we are prepared to do.
This is the message we are sitting on it for 1400 years, you don't do the job, then you pay the price.
This isn't a problem that because you're not doing your job. We don't have a job. And it is so easy. Get a translation.
How much? seven grams 50. Look, there's not another book on earth you can buy for the price 2000 pages try try. Go to the Christian bookshop and see this one has this Bible I paid 14 100% more than that. For this, I show another book just I paid 30 runs from the Christian Bibles, Christian bookshop,
this one 2000 pages seven times 50 and if you can afford it, I said you get it free. What excuse Have you got on the Day of Judgment, I can stand before the Lord and say oh my lord, I
I tried to help my brothers and sisters, I offered them your book, absolutely free to those who couldn't afford and yet they couldn't take advantage. Those who can afford no reason to be one without you.
Mr. Chairman, ladies and gentlemen,
the subject is last 15 different chapters speak about this by the Messenger of God. When is not expected to wade through wade through 15 chapters 25 different places as mentioned by name, one is not expected to return at all. I have given you the gift of our message, Christ in Islam. And now I leave myself open to you.
Thank you, Mr. deedat. I just want to recall the objectives I had set out when I open open this discussion. And I said that I trust that at the end of the session, we hope that a proper perspective would be brought into this topic and that is the Jesus Christ. Maybe he Sally salon is revered and respected by Muslims. And this is not what Mr. deedat has to say. But what the Quran has to say in volumes also, that Muslims are not antichrist, as is the present slogan of many, and that the subject is too vast to cover in one lecture.
Before I call any, before I open discussion for questions, I just want to remind the audience about another verse of the Quran, which extends this topic so vastly, it says, say, we believe in Allah and it what has been revealed to us. And what was revealed to Abraham is my email, Isaac yaku, and the tribes and in the books given to Moses, Jesus and the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between one another among them and to God, we do bow our will to Islam.
The other objective I'd set out was the significance to this to Muslims. It is absolutely essential that if anybody, Muslims alone, have to take the cuddles and pass the message on, as Mr. deedat is attempting to do.
Brothers. When we all entered this hall, we heard a tape
in the form of a poem. This was a poem by use of Islam, formerly known as Cat Stevens, also formerly of the Christian faith, and now a Muslim. And this tape is available at the Islamic Propagation center and at the Islamic book service.
At the end of this session, there will be literature available. There will be tapes available from tomorrow at the offices of the propagation center, and the Islamic bookshop together with videotapes.
I now come to an important aspect of tonight's session and that is questions and answers. However, when one
comes to the spot, it is absolutely essential that we discipline ourselves for time is not in our favor. We have half an hour.
We would love to accommodate everyone but unfortunately, time is at a premium and we cannot allow this
Those who are keen to ask questions are welcome to come to the mic in front. If they could take the position here and put the questions to the speaker for the benefit of all, let us stick to the topic. Let us be to the point. And let us get on with as many questions as we have call
upon any person who wishes to ask any questions. Good evening, if you could address your question to me, and then I will put it onto the directories. Another. Good thank you. Mr. lockette. As you finished off your credit from the Quran saying that you Muslims believed essentially all the revelations of the past prophets,
quoting from Abraham right through, right, right. And it's in that context that I wish to ask a question, referring to Jesus, from that point of view.
I have in my hand, a book called The Holy Scriptures, published by the Jewish Publication Society, the point I want to make is, it's not a Christian publication, it is the Jewish authentic scriptures, right.
In fact, it has been authenticated by God Himself, and as much as the Dead Sea Scrolls, which were discovered by a Muslim. And I think in that is a very pertinent message to Muslims, authenticating the very scriptures that Jesus said, I do not come to do away with the law and the prophets, I come to fulfill them. And Mr. Did you yourself said, If Jesus was here, if it was possible to see in person, he told you something you would accept him because you knew he would not tell a lie? Right. So in other words, I want to
Can Can you just ask the question, I will do, I want to give the background because very important, I want to quote from the book of Isaiah, because it is one of the many scrolls that was preserved in the Dead Sea Scrolls intact. It hasn't been tampered with for 2000 years. This is the point I want to make. It's authentic, its original.
Let's start at the point of
you want to make some comments. You don't have a question for the speaker. Please, if we can get down to the question, I think it will make things much easier. Ask your question yet the speaker answer it. Let's be fair to you as well.
Are we having troubles here?
Yes, everyone will get a chance everyone will get a chance we asking for are we waiting for the question, right? That is all it is simple as that.
As our chapter seven, verse 14 says, Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign behold, a young woman armor which can be also translated version will give birth to a son. Now the Quran and the Bible, both agree this is Jesus.
And his name should be Emmanuel, which translated means God with us. Just bear that in mind. We turn the page to Isaiah chapter nine and verse.
Yeah, it's coming. All right. Carry on. We'll give you a chance carry on. I thought that this was a goodwill meeting. Right?
For unto us a child is born unto us a son is given. The government shall be upon his shoulder and his name is Pele. juez elga. Booyah. Abby, at shalom. And the bottom is a note here that is wonderful and counsel, is God mighty, the Everlasting Father, this little child, this little boy is going to be the Everlasting Father.
We turn the page for one last quotation Then comes a question and I thank you for your patience. And Isaiah 53. We read these words.
And they iniquities did he Bay he bought his sons, because he bared his soul into death. He was not with the transgressors, yet he bought the sins of many, and made intercession for the transgressors. See, do you ask the question? Where did the Christians get the idea that Jesus was God, which is what we mean when he said he was because he was God that came in the form of a man. Now, my question is this, the Jews themselves are expecting God in the form of a man as the Messiah. Why then, does the Quran which claims to have its roots in this very book, preach a different Jesus? That's my question.
Mr. Chairman, ladies and gentlemen, let me correct my brother spate. The Jews were not expecting the Messiah as a man God.
They had no such idea, the word Messiah, I gave you an idea that this is a very common word used in the scriptures. I gave you from the very book that you were quoting just not from the book of Isaiah. I said that Isaiah chapter 40, Chapter 45 verse one, Cyrus, a pagan, a polytheist, an idol worship. God Almighty called
If kahiko was a pagan, and idol worshipper, which is the greatest sin,
to these monotheistic religions like Judaism, Christianity and Islam is to associate any beings with God. This Cyrus was a pagan an idol worshiper, and God calls him Messiah and he says, I have surnamed v. Do Tao has not known me. You are a pagan You don't know me, but I still surname you Christ.
So, a pagan can be Christ. And pillars can be Christ. Do you want me to give you references?
pillars, pillars are anointed are they made into Messiah? pillar, pots and pans I gave you reference the pots and pans and the book that's given to you with all the text is given. pots and pans are anointed, anointed in Greek crisscross, which is Christ in Hebrew, Messiah pots and pans, but Christ, pillar, Christ, priest Christ is all in your book.
When you're quoting me about the this prophecy about Emanuel, which means God with us. This is a name, Emmanuel means born with us,
and He shall be called Emmanuelle. I am asking learned men of Christianity who called Jesus Emmanuel.
In all his 33 years, give me one reference, who called him Emanuel at any time, who called him Almighty God, who, who called himself nobody did he say I am God? Did he say worship Me? On the contrary, he says, I can have our own self do nothing. As I hear, I judge and my judgment is righteous, because I seek not my own will, but the will of Him that simply he says, see the word you hear and not mine. But the father that sent me he had given me a commandment, what I should say and what I should speak even as a father and said unto you, so I speak. He says, of that day know what no man, no, not the angels nor the Son, but the Father in heaven. In what way? Is he claiming
equality with God? Where does he say I am bad? With as you say, worship Me? There isn't. I'm saying wait, did he say such words? No way. To the contrary, say my father is greater than I, my father is greater than all.
I don't know whether it means when he says
if anybody called him God, called him Jehovah.
Emmanuel is nothing This is the name. You have Emmanuel Cathedral behind your geochemistry. Emmanuel Cathedral. You see, you have 1000s of people in the book, you find hundreds their ally.
In the Holy Bible, Li Li Li. You remember Jesus on the cross is supposed to have cried out Li Li.
You know, how many allies are in this book here? Jews?
allies, how many?
dozens of them allies, means my call? The name is My God, if your name is Li, you know what it means? My God? Am I seeing you? Oh my god.
Look, here's in the book, how many allies have you got? e li. And yet, Jesus is saying li li calling to those Jews. As these god no, these are names in line with Emmanuel means a person with a godly person who's ever thinking that God is ever with him in his behavior. That is what it means. It doesn't mean he's gone. The Jews didn't have any idea of God incarnate, the God coming to earth as a man. Messiah means the Anointed One, the appointed one.
He was appointed by God to be His representative, to bring them back to the path.
The Muslims are telling the very same thing. This man is not God. He is the Messiah here. But what does Messiah mean? Go to the root. The root word means anointed means appointed, officially appointed by God, that is all.
And every prophet is some of these terms we take, and we give it specifically exclusively for certain person, every prophet of God is an anointed of God, in Hebrew Messiah, but we use this term exclusively for Jesus, the word Rasulullah messenger of God.
In the Quran, Moses is described as Rasulullah, a messenger of God. Jesus is described as a pseudo la messenger of God, but ask any Muslim witnesses Rasul Allah, Who is he talking about?
He's talking about the Holy Prophet Muhammad. What about Moses? The Quran says Rasul Allah, this word is exclusively used in that sense, though Moses is the messenger of God. Jesus is also the Messenger of God. We say Abraham is a friend of God, are all the other prophecies enemies of God. No, but actually, you know that term for Abraham. Moses is an interloper.
Today we're gonna start with God. Didn't Jesus speak with God? Did Mohammed speak with God. But we use that term exclusively for Moses that he spoke with God, the old prophet spoke to him. Likewise, this word Messiah, every prophet of God is a Messiah. He's anointed, appointed, consecrated, but we use this term exclusively for Jesus.
I don't see anywhere where this man says that God where he says worship, this is what I want
to thank you for the next speaker. My next question is no Praise God.
Can I say salam, peace began to think
it is true. We've heard good words tonight. We've heard about the birth of the Lord, it has been acknowledged has been miraculous. We've heard of these works.
I dispute the fact that a babe
spiked miraculously to save God his mother,
because God was with her as well as with the child. We find that according to Eastern chronology,
people from the east came to see if we don't believe in our history where children were slaughtered by Herod so that this man child was born to be king could have been slaughtered. Yet we find that Eastern people who were clever in a daze as Adi acknowledged the fact where is he was born to be king of the Jews.
Mr. de Arte
in the Quran,
you have spoken to us bit tonight about the birth,
the life, his works, but you didn't touch on the crucifixion. You have glossed over it, you've spoken and mentioned but you didn't come to the point. Now in the Quran,
the Quran says there by Abdullah
Yusuf Ali. He says there in the commentary of the Quran to safeguard the Jews, because one is born of the bond and one is born of the free one of Ishmael one of Haggar, one of Isaac, God has blessed both.
But being brothers in that degree.
The Quran says we don't want to put a stigma upon the Jews. So we will say that, instead of Christ being crucified, they took another person they hit the Lord, they hit the anointed, was he anointed for nothing? Did he have no powers to go forth and even unto death, that the Jews now or whoever it was the Romans or whoever, that the Quran must now say, No, we will hide this man now. We don't want to stigmatize you put on the Jews, and somebody else was handed over to be crucified. God does not lie. Does Muhammad lie? Is the commentator a liar? God is not a man he should repent neither the Son of man that he should repent, he cannot lie. So what is the Quran mere? twist that concerning the
crucifixion of Christ, you believe in the prophets. You believe in the songs you believe in the Torah.
And they all speak of the crucifixion of this one. They all Isaiah he was marred like no man was mod. We turn our faces away from him, we did we despised and we all but he still fulfilled the work of God.
Thomas said, My Lord and my God.
Why does the Quran deny to the facts of the crucifixion of Christ? Thank you. I think that question is valid, Mr. D that should answer that. Thank you.
The question in case you haven't heard it clear enough,
coming succinctly to this, that why does the Quran deny the crucifixion?
When, as our brother says, the whole Bible speaks about it. Now, this subject of crucifixion, I have dealt with here from this very platform.
Under the heading was Christ crucified, you remember brother's fate.
he here is a witness here, wonderful brother, and he will be able to confirm that that subject also takes about an hour. Not necessarily that subject takes an hour to expound. I can make I can make sweeping generalizations to say,
I say we believe that Christ was not killed, nor was he crucified, and I quote you verse from the Quran, Mama Cthulhu masala boo, they didn't kill him, and they didn't crucify him. Right. But that doesn't prove anything. For the Muslims, it is proof enough. You see that his Lord says that Christ was not killed and he wasn't crucified. But for you now, you have a record. You say Matthew Mark
Luke, john and the scriptures as a whole, Matthew, Mark, Luke, john, the whole Bible.
What does the Quran say?
Yeah, what does it say? Yeah, what does he say?
From the Bible.
He, I made reference to you.
died and is in heaven. I didn't say that words are not there.
You you sit down and you? No, no, look, no, no, you see, this is a false allegation made against me. The steps is here, you sit down there, where I say that Jesus where I say Jesus died, please find that. In the meantime, give somebody else a chance. Rather, give somebody else a chance while you find where I say that Jesus died.
Thank you. Thank you.
Mr. Mr. questioner. Thank you, Mr. questioner.
Thank you, sir. The next question, please. Next question, please. Thank you.
Mr. deedat. I really appreciate your presence with us this afternoon. What I would like to stress to you is that earlier on you have mentioned that Melchizedek in the Old Testament had a beginning and the ending, like the way the book of Hebrews has been written. And I do appreciate you telling us that Jesus also add a beginning. And you also had an ending, but no way in the Bible is been mentioned him saying that he is God Almighty. Our point out to you a scripture in the very last book of the of the Bible, which is Revelation, chapter one, verse eight, he says that I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end, say that say the Lord Almighty. Thank you. Thank you very
much. There is no question.
I said, and I repeat that new way, in the Bible, Jesus Christ says, I'm God, or where he says, worship Me, our brother has given a quotation from the book of Revelation. That is the last book of the New Testament.
The title of the book is the book of Revelation.
What is this book all about?
It is about a dream.
This was a dream while Jesus walked this earth.
According to the canonical gospels,
not one statement he made I am alpha and I'm omega, nowhere. Matthew, Mark, Luke, john x. Nowhere. This is the last book of the New Testament, which was a dream that john had, or whoever he was, he had a dream. And in that dream, if I read it to you,
you know about an animal having seven horns and seven horns with seven eyes. And this is a man was dreaming, usually men when he eats too much, he has dreams like that.
See, this is the human mind, you see how it works? Look, the psychologist will tell you that the human mind is divided into different compartments, we have certain portions of our brain, which does deals with vision. When it gets damaged, your vision is affected certain portion your hearing is affected, certain portion, your speech is affected certain portions, your imagination is affected. These are different portions in the brain doing different functions, performing different functions. In our dreams, every portion is independent, while we are here, while we are consciously awake. There are things that we want to do and we want to say but we are thinking what will people think?
This is human beings, we are thinking say what will this man think of me? I want a shout to say what will people say? So you guys gone hot under the collar. So there's so many factors the reasoning faculty is controlling your emotions controlling every other function, but in your dream, my dream, anybody's dream, everybody's dream, in our dreams, our imaginations run riot.
You know, there are things that you do in your dream, which will never imagine doing it in your waking life.
Your waking moments will never do things what you dream about, you know that I don't know.
You all will confirm, this is what happens to me to you to everybody. So this man, john is writing a dream. And in the dream what he saw, and the description, you know, the descriptions that are given, you can see is only in your dream, you can dream like that you can pop like that.
where Jesus says, while he is walking life, he told anybody I am gone, or where he told anybody worship me. Show me one verse.
Thank you, sir.
Mr. Duck, in the speech you have made, you mentioned about Israel, Islamic religion, you believe that Jesus is the Messiah, is the Messiah? And is that a message of God? And then I would go further and say, if you believe that, do you in Islamic religion, also believe the words of Jesus?
I have some questions. If you have answered it, Richard, oh, this is just the beginning. Yes, it's a beginning.
The question was, whether I believe in the words that Jesus uttered, I do, I do believe Thank you. I now go further, if you do believe in the true sense, in the words of Jesus, somewhere, Jesus says, I and My Father are one and to my understanding, if you say something is one, it means that particular something is inseparable. Now, I do not understand what makes you to be and what makes you not accept that Jesus is God. If it comes into quality, if you believe that Jesus is Jesus and God are one, then logically and to my understanding, you should also accept that in quality with God is also one, you do not have to put some separations. So the question is, you know, that expression, I am a
father of one, I have dealt with it quite extensively. But our brother has the understanding, that one means inseparable. It becomes like a sausage one piece.
Now, if that is the case, I'm putting you the same john.
Same john, Chapter 17. If you have a Bible, if not, I give this Bible to you. JOHN, Chapter 17, verses 28 to 22.
I read it for you. And if I'm Miss reading or misquoting, you can correct me. The same john, who spoke about I am a father of one. Now he says that Jesus told his disciples
that they all all his disciples, maybe one, maybe one Oh, anyone? Am I reading correctly? Yes, yes, that they all, you know, those who deserted him. One of them sold him for 30 miserable pieces of silver, the other one cursed abusing him. They all left him in the lurch when he was most in need, they all may be one as tau father, art in me
and I in the
that they also may be one in us.
You know, Judas, Peter Thomas, the Doubting Thomas, you know, the traitor, Judas, and the satanic Peter, according to Jesus. He says, Get behind me Satan. He told Peter, you remember you Satan is get behind me for that savers not the things that we are God, but the things that be of men, that Peter and all the other nine, that they all may be one in us, I in them, and thou in me that they may be made perfect in one, one sausage. Can you imagine? inseparable? Peter, the Doubting Thomas, and Jesus and God, all become inseparable. So they all become God. When God.
You say inseparable means you become a sausage. You make a sausage out of Father, Son, Holy Ghost, and the 12 disciples all become one sausage.
become like a totem pole for us to worship.
inseparable. No, my brother, my son, it doesn't mean that. You see the Oneness is the Oneness I explained. It is the oneness of purpose. The purpose of God is
to see that Amen. goes straight. The purpose of the prophet of God is to see that you go straight, and every right thinking person, every man, every woman
our purpose should be one
But that doesn't make us gods or sausage with God or become inseparable with God. Thank you.
Thank you. We have another question.
Did I only want to ask you one question on what you say? Did you have just two questions? Actually? Did you read the Bible properly?
That's my first question.
The first question is did Mr. deedat read the Bible properly? Yes. Thank you. And, and the second are when he answers that are asking the second one. All right, please. Okay, he'll answer your first question. Thank you.
In all humility,
I can only claim in humility, that I think I did read the Bible properly.
I believe you didn't read the Holy Bible properly, because I want to tell you something, from what you told me just now, when Jesus came back from the resurrection, he went for the Last Supper, and he said, This is my body and this is my blood. I want to tell you he had the Last Supper before he was crucified.
Thank you, do you agree or do you not? Why do you? Why do you try and get Jesus into the picture every time even when you haven't read the Bible properly? Okay, thank you, mister. Take those comments. Thank you. There seems to be two more questions. Gentlemen, are you also asking question three more? We'll, we'll close with these last three questions. Thank you. Yeah, I just want to trust Mr. dieded. Whether he believes Bible is God's word.
Do you believe that the Bible is God's Word?
Is the Bible God's Word? Thank you.
You see, this is not a time for joking. But
if, if we had the time, if we had the time,
I would have given you a Bible in your hand and asked you whether you believe that Bible to be the Word of God. You see this subject about the Bible will be discussed in this very City Hall on the 13th of December. Under the heading is the Bible God's word symposium is supposed to have taken place here in October, between a Christian missionary and my secretary. But for some reason, the Christian missionary has backed out, but my secretary is going ahead.
With that meeting, on the 13th of December, in this city hall, he will be expounding fully the subject is the Bible God's word, and then you will have ample opportunity of firing him with questions.
Michael, my question tonight is, if he was given the Gospels with the Quran tells us to believe in
then I all I can say is he didn't speak Greek. He did not speak English. So how Sure, am I that the Gospels that I hear are the Gospels of Jesus? That is my question. Thank you.
The question seems something like this. If I got it, right,
that the Quran speaks about Jesus preaching the Injeel.
Yvonne Gail, the good news, in G in Arabic in G.
Now, how are we to know because we know that Jesus didn't speak English, we have the English Bible. And we have the Africans and the Zulu Bible and all that. What did he preach that we Muslims can say? This is the preaching of Jesus. Now we believe in the principle that Jesus God Almighty gave Jesus Christ a revelation, which we call the Injeel, translated gospel.
And we read in the Christian Bible, that Jesus went to a certain place, and he preached the gospel, he went to another place, and he preached the gospel, and he went somewhere else, and he preached the gospel.
Now, when it speaks about gospel, gospel Gospel, Jesus went and preach the gospel. I can't imagine him carrying a book under his arm, and reading out of that, as the gospel. So the message that he delivered, we say that message is the gospel, the good news. Unfortunately, the Christians have not been able to preserve that. You see, we have in this book, books, in what is called the New Testament, the Gospel according to St. Matthew, the Gospel according to St. Mark the Gospel according to St. Luke, the Gospel according to St. JOHN, and then you have Peter and Paul, and you have James and you have so many others, all writing what is called the New Testament, but out of
these 27 books of the New Testament. There is not one the Gospel according to St. Jesus
This is a sad part. There isn't. So where is this gospel, you bring that gospel, and we will see whether we can confirm it with the Quran. I'm sure it won't be anything different from the Quran. If you bring me the gospel that Jesus preached, I'm sure he didn't have one other exam. The one he preached the Gospel according to St. Jesus. That is the gospel I believe in.
You see, so I'm waiting for somebody to come along. Out of the Dead Sea Scrolls are talking about maybe one day they'll find one, the Gospel according to St. Jesus, I'd be very happy to read that and show how close it is to the Quran.
Thank you. Thank you, Mr. deedat. Gentlemen, and gentle ladies, on the 13th of December, there is going to be a symposium in the city hall, all of you are invited. And finally, I want to thank you one and all for the very Abell manner in which you behaved this evening, and we pray that God Almighty accepts your effort and the efforts of Mr. deedat in this message of his Thank you very much. Salaam Alaikum