Matn Abu Shuja #31

Hang on hang out. I mean Aloma Salim Salim Allah Muhammad wa early yo sabe Jemaine. So today, we're going to continue in the chapter of trade

or commerce

or business or basic economics, whatever you call it, beware selling and buying basically.

And other things that are

associated with with trade. So today we're gonna start by talking about whatever and this is going to be

something that's important for us to learn about and understand properly. So he says, whatever the hobby will feel, but it will not glomacs So we're going to talk immediately we're gonna go to the board right away and talking about what what this means. So river exists and two things

and if they have

welfare

gold and silver

and exists and

stable food crops

all right. So this

exists for when we talked about Islam.

We talked about it from an Islamic perspective. Sorry. So Flomax, stable food crops I'm talking about who got gold and silver. So money and currency

and here we are basic,

basic needs.

Now it doesn't exist and other things to

other assets with us enough. So this killer going this way,

is agreed upon just queued up over here, but there are other assets. There's also dibba and when dealing other assets, so what I mean by dealing other assets. First of all, the concept of Riba is very, very old, and exists

in almost every culture and civilization would have how far you go back in history.

When we saw it or known most for it, because there was they were given the commandment as haram and the Torah and yet they did it with with themselves with each other and with with others, which made

him riba worker, they knew who and who, in the Quran welcomed him, everybody took me about when they even though they were told not to do so. So whatever is basically when you loan someone money, or you lend someone money,

and you take it back with interest, that's basically whatever comes down to it is when money

increases with time.

Money's not being used to strengthen the economy is only recycled back into the economy,

rather, is just making a profit based on the fact that time is progressing. So you're not really doing anything, you're not taking any risks, you're not investing, you're not buying and selling, you're not doing anything at all. Your money is just increasing as time progresses. That's that's all that's happening. And that is what it is. What does that mean? What does that lead to? That leads to the fact that those who have money will have more money, and those who don't, will never be able to make the profit that they need to make because they're always being held down by debt mean, that is accumulating just by time.

That means so when time equals money in the form in the, in the context of a loan, this becomes a problem of Riba and every other thing that's going to be haram, the robber, is going to be based on that simple fact, coming back to it, trying to make sure we don't leave too many loopholes open for people to abuse

later on, within labor. So, for example,

I lent you

$10 Okay, I told you, you're going to pay it back to me. 12.

That makes sense. That that's what I'm, that's about immediately. So we don't do it that way. We don't do it that way. What we do is I'm lend you $10 But you have to come and buy from me.

You have to buy from me $10 later on. You're gonna buy from me a $10. Bill, how are you going to pay for it? You can pay for $12.

Does that make sense? And you're saying what, what can happen? So

it's just rather, hey, you have $10 in your pocket and you take a $10 bill? Yep, I do. Okay, I'll pay you $12 for that. $10. Right. That's another form of labor. And it's just a backdoor for recruiting. It's just it's just a backdoor. That makes sense. So let's say

you don't you don't have

You don't have money and I don't have $10 bills on my hand. So you told me this. So I wanted to make full sense. If you listen carefully to make sense of it, then you understand how it works. I got the $10. Bill, you don't have you want it? You will tell me instead of me doing it, but instead of me loaning it to you, lending it to you, and you pay me back at $12? You're telling me this, you'll tell me $10? Yep, I do. I'll buy it from you for 12 or pay $12 or $10. I'll pay you 12 for the 10. And I'll pay you in Sharla. But I don't have money on me now or pay later. Is it the same isn't the same thing? It's exactly the same thing. Same thing goes for the

time constraints.

Time goes on.

So hold on, that's a different issue. That's that's the difference between money and currency. That's a difference in terms of inflation is a different thing to the concept of inflation is different altogether. We're talking about money here. So we're talking about $2. In a system, where currency is backed up properly by gold and silver, and it holds on to its value, it's not going to lose value as time as time progresses. We're not talking about that specifically. But what we're talking about here is that money. So let me say I took instead of saying I gave you $10 bill as the example. But it could be anything. It could be within this example gold, it could be one gram of

gold.

So you have one gram of gold. Yeah, I'll buy it. I want to buy that one gram ago, I'll pay you a gram and a half of gold for it.

Same thing. So I take that gram of gold, I'll tell you, I'll pay you for a gram of gold gram and a half when How about a year I'll pay I just, it's just it's just our PA leader. Right? And that's that's acceptable in the DNI can take the merchant doesn't pay you and pay you at a certain point later on. So I'm paying you so what that's riba at the end, what I'm taking is not a seller, I'm not taking an asset. I'm taking money, I'm paying money for money, I'm buying money with me that's haram, you don't buy the Hubby, the hub are filled up, filled up. And the same thing goes for my format for a staple food crops. Because the other way or it could work the other way around, too,

you can just use the same example that I gave you where I have with me

$10 And you have a you don't, let's say that I have 10 kilos of of wheat, and you have 2020 kilos of wheat, right. So what I do is I we exchange it, this much is value based, meaning I equalized, I say I want to buy those 1020 kilos of wheat with my, with my 10 kilos of wheat, right, and then we exchange back and forth. And now you have the 10 and I have the 20. And that's just another backdoor of us doing ribbon me just you're gonna find a different way to do it instead of so instead of me actually saying I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna I'm gonna buy the 10 kilos of wheat with 20 kilos that I have, even though they're both the same, the same gents, the same product, we're using the same

asset, there's no difference. So the profit as I said, in that case, what you should do is go sell your 10 kilos of wheat, and then with the money buy the 20 kilos of him. And if you can convince them that this is the guy how much you're going to win when you when you just exchange it like that is basically just a backdoor for us to do that. But yeah,

isn't that basically the person who's buying kills is 22.

So it makes no sense when you think of it. What it does is just it turns into a backdoor for us to commit to but

it turns into a way for us to commit it without actually breaking the law. It's a loophole. So one of the loopholes, it's okay not to do it. So I'm not gonna do this with money, I'm not gonna buy your $10 with $12. I'll buy your 20 kilos of wheat with 10 kilos of wheat. So it's the exact same example. Basically, we're just using it, we just, it just the problem is I'm trying to close all the loopholes that could possibly exist for us to have a river, right. So he did his best slice ylim in terms of talking about animal promap disabled food crops, talking about the golden silver, and other scholars talked about other assets, even though they don't all agree to it, because they're not used

as commonly be. And they don't, and they are not produced in such huge amounts, so it doesn't. So if I have 10 kilos of potatoes, and I want five kilos of

cucumbers, we can any we can we can exchange that from from scholars that that's acceptable, because they're not they're not the same asset because they they will have different values in the market. So maybe maybe I lose my guy when it's not clear what it was. But it's the same asset with both sweet sweet then 10 kilos and 20 kilos, you're just losing or winning here enters into a form of riba Yeah.

So even when it came to that the profit was I said, okay, even if it's different quality, just don't do that sell your bad quality and then buy with it later on, because that will lead to a different problem with the market later on. It will lead to a problem where only people who have certain amounts of money can eat certain foods and others have to eat to eat. So the problem of obesity

is a bit complex in terms of what it leads to within any economic system. But the Haram, that the former impermissibility that we have is based on the same idea that your money has to if it's going to make a profit on it, it has to be invested or has been moved around into a recycled into the economy, it can just equal time based on the fact that there are others who need it, or the others who want to build something with it. What if I had a loan from someone, and we didn't agree that I'm going to pay it back more, but because he lent me that money, I was able to get more money, and I want to show my appreciation for them. So if you give in the form of a HIPAA in the form of a gift,

after you pay, they differ on that Some scholars say it's okay. And some of them say that opens the door for this becoming a norm. And then we're going all back to them all over again. Because it becomes the norm. Well, I gave you I lent you money and you. And it's customary that you give me a gift, and that's just in the form of riba wasn't the case? Yeah, I know. So some scholars okay with it fine. Yeah. And some of them and some of them will say that that said that the law, so it opens the door for us to lead her on turn this system of law of lending money into Riba. What they did talk about, I think, I think is the best new system that exists is that if you're going to do it,

you do it in a whole different timing and a different form, meaning you get to actually buy them a gift. So it's not really money, and you do it in a leader timing, and you don't do it every single time you, you take in money, because it turns into AI because it happens all the time. By the way. Sometimes it's not written contracts, it's understood contracts. Like it's implied, even though it's not written and agreed upon, implied contracts Islamically, if there is a cultural norm, it's as if it's written, mainly because that's what people will hold you to meaning you won't be able to get a loan ever again, if you don't give the gift that you were supposed to give. And that isn't that

exactly, that's it. So if you didn't pay this time, but you're going to be denied this service forever. So they differ on that specific topic. Now when it comes to a contract that has an ABA in it.

So the Jim, who were maybe before I continue talking about it, the Jim Ward of scholars say that it's it's a, it's a contract that is battle. Now to me is unacceptable, contrary, the contract is invalid, the moment that you will insert the concept of Riba in it anywhere, the Hanafi is specifically in it, and maybe Daniel's not here, but he will remember it. And if we haven't, they differ, they have a discrepancy and issues of trade, they they have a kind of got his bottle that is invalid. And a contract that is fasted fast, it means that the contract itself is right, but there's a mistake in it, which means it's fast. So it's ruined by a mistake that's in it. And they and they

say they're different things. So without me, if you write a contract has liver in it, you are owed the loan that you gave, and you don't get the rip apart. But with the gym holder, the contract itself is invalid, whoever you, you, I lend you the money for the gym. If this has caught this, we tear up the paper and you give the money back and this is not going to happen again, this is the whole contract is unacceptable for the 100 via no the contract stage, we just we just take out the rip apart from from the contract. So if that makes sense. Me that. Okay, well, I'm gonna give you the money, you give me back twice as much. Okay, but then later when I'm like, well, this isn't

valid. So I'm gonna give you this.

Why would you do? Why would you say, Okay?

Because he wouldn't give it to me. Like, he wouldn't say, I'll give you that money. If you don't give me money.

So the guy in front of you won't take your money unless he gets to pay you twice as much

money he won't give you unless you compete. So he's like, I want to get a loan with you. Okay, I'll give you 100,000 Back to our house, you've got to enter that. And you know, you don't want to do that. No,

no, no, no, that's haram entering the contract is haram from the beginning, we're talking about the contract exists. Now, the Jehovah said it's invalid immediately and has to be

you need the money that was taken out to be returned in it and the contract is invalid, the contract is valid, we just have to take out we just take out the Labor Party. But for you as an individual, you're not allowed to enter a contract that has, you know, been in it anyway. You're not allowed to enter a contract as well talking about the exceptions that exist in this country in a minute. So I'll talk about the exceptions. There are four exceptions from within this country that we'll talk about. But as a Muslim, even if you never pay a river, if you never ever do it, like the contract that you have has a clause in it, but you'll never actually pay it because you have the money be you

just lucky, you don't always have the money. The fact that you've signed a contract that has no decimal haram, that's why you shouldn't sign a contract that puts on YouTube. So if you're late with a payment that's going to accumulate interest on you again, inflation is a different thing. Inflation is a very different concept when

unfortunately, a lot of the Muslim scholars don't understand it. And a lot of them will give very, very naive and superficial fatawa if someone tells you Well, my grandfather, my father lent his father $500 in 1965, and there's an actual document so he'll tell you pay him back $500 Right.

because that's what he took from him. And that's just based on the lack of understanding of what currency is, this is currency, this was representing a certain amount of gold. If that currency is not representing the same amount of gold, find out how much currency would represent the same amount of gold and pay him that amount, because that is what you owed him is is not an issue of Riba. If today, the currency, the the value of currency, I'd gone up, and then you could pay him $50, if that represented the same amount of gold within the bank. Does that make sense? So so we connect what your what will you take to an asset, either to money or to an asset, if I let

my loan from you was 10 kilograms of wheat? And we agreed that would pay you back 10 kilograms of wheat? Well, that stays as is because wheat is a staple food crop is not based on the value of gold, gold is based on the value of wheat, not the other way around. So it gives you back 10 kilograms of wheat when it comes to currency, because currency is only a representative of a certain amount of gold that is held within banks, then you have to pay back whatever that amount.

is. And that's the whole point that's $500 at certain certain time, you know, actually was $500 in 1960s. Is it the same amount of carry today? Not even close, not even in a not by a longshot so. So that has to be equalized. A lot of scholars don't understand that. And they'll say, No, It's haram. And there's nothing here, but it doesn't understand the difference between money and currency. Currency just represents money in a weapon, which is gold. And so it's not doesn't have value in its own self. So if you took $100, you just you just took something everybody represented a certain amount of gold, he used it, so that I had to give him back whatever ever represents that same amount

of gold, or give him the amount of gold, right? Because gold is the thing that we that we hold on to or you choose a staple food crops, I'm Scottish. Okay with that, I think that's a fine idea as well choose a staple food crop that hold on hold on to its value frames. So what are their staple food crops that they agree upon as Riba is haram. And, again, I'm going to tell you what the scholars agree upon in the form of them, or they don't agree or disagree, amount of disagreement, but what I think is the key it should be should be the idea of my opinion in the matter. So it's about tomorrow, and

so let's deliver it.

It's, it's farmer worthy. So come and share your soy, wheat,

barley,

dates,

and salts. These ones you cannot buy and sell them with each other in the same amounts. Me I can't see, give me I have 10 I'm gonna buy those 20 kilos of salt with these 10 kilos of salt, you don't do that it has to be exactly the same. Here's 20 Give me 20 You're gonna say what's the point of that? I don't know. But if you do that, that's fine. Right? It's a useless transaction. But if you that's what you want to do. It's your choice, if you want to see here's 20 on it, take 20 It's up to you, but you can't do it less or more. If you have like a different qualities go sell and then buy, go sell take currency, take money in an amount for and then go buy it again to keep the market

moving. So the market actually because of that money stays liable because again, if you kill the value of money within an economy, we go back to the chaos that existed before money was was discovered or come up with by by human misery for less finally put put the concept of gold and silver as money for humans. Because before I had a cow, you had some potatoes. I wanted some meat and you wanted I wanted some potatoes, you wanted to make meat. So what we're going to do here, obviously, for the kilo potatoes, I'm gonna give you a cow for it. And I can't chop off a piece of this cow and give it to you while it's alive. So becomes very difficult. How do we what do we do

here? So we had to come up with something that allowed us to function as a race. So

and when you look at them, what is what is common for them, or what is the common denominator for these four.

It's the time it's a cultural, it's a timing, cultural thing. So time, place, culture. Economy dictated that these four were important more than every other staple food crop meaning back at the time of the Prophet slicing them, these four things were being bought and sold all the time. They were very, very heavy, very important. If you withheld if you withheld these four, if you put them in a monopoly in the hands of a few of a few merchants, then you could you could bring down Yanni basically you could cause poverty and starvation within within society. Today, maybe these have changed so much what what I think should be the case is that we should do PS from these and this is

something that the gym Hora Allama have done PS on all foods. So all so these are not automatic mean foods, any type of foods, staple foods crops specifically, but we do PS for everything.

So we'll say yes, and they'll jump over. So we draw analogies.

Drive for all food.

For the gym forum scholars, for the majority of scholars, they draw analogies to all types of food. So just like you're not allowed to buy 10 kilos of wheat with 20 kilos of wheat you can do for any other type of

Food for any other type of food. What about other assets?

About other assets, they had to do got to go into more detail, there was a laugh about this, but I think it's I think the same thing applies, I believe that the same concept will apply

to, to close all the loopholes. And to make sure that we are keeping money

circulating within the economy, you have to close the door and all these and all these transactions. But I'll give you an example let's say

steel. So I want to buy I want to take you know, 10 tonnes of steel and I have 20 tonnes of steel. Now the difference is your 10 tonnes of steel are turned into rods to actually steel rods and might 20 tonnes of steel or just small chip bits of steel. So in that case, would it be okay to exchange steel and here's where they it here's where they differ. Some scholars say even if they were self taught, say yes, even if it would be 20 tons of steel rods that you want to buy 10 tons of steel rods you can do it. Why? Because the difference when it comes to other assets, attributes and descriptions change value, in terms of food is not the same thing, especially natural foods. We're

not talking about anything that's put into

cans or processed foods, stuff that you've actually tampered with and changed its attributes. We're talking about just natural food. Campbell has tumbled wheat as wheat barley as barley and millet and Daniel Berman has Milhouse assault, Assault is the same thing, because we're natural. So these are visually similar values, if you had to buy something that could have a different type of quality than do it through through an exchange of money here. Here we're more it's more safe to see that here we can.

So based

on

on different attributes.

And descriptions.

It is permissible.

This topic for the gym holder, who gets to pick who gets to pick what attribute or the so it's something we're agreeing upon, right. So I mean, it's not a matter of I know, you're not being forced into this transaction, it's a transaction that you're doing.

It's selling and buying. You have wool, for example, that is unprocessed, and I have processed Well, it's still wool, but I did something to it. And I want to give you 10 My 10 tonnes to take five tonnes of the processed will, because of the difference of attributes and the labor that's being done, it seems to be permissible, because a lot of these other assets are not natural assets that exist in

nature, it's ethical to look for a tree for example, depending on the type of tree, a mango tree is not the same value of an apple tree, not the same value of an oak tree. Some trees are going to just maple trees, they don't do any, they don't give you anything to eat, they can barely get anything out of it, and other trees are going to every six months will offer you a fruit. So based on attributes, this becomes permissible, but for food and money, it is not to for food and money. It is not for the gym, who would have scholars and that's what I wanted to make sure you guys understood. And and the reason is because it comes down to that simple, simple understanding, it turns the

economic system system into a system that is rigged for the rich to stay rich, and for the poor to take a very long time to get out of their poverty and for the middle class to almost never ever leave their status in the middle class, you can never get out. If every time you you need to take or

take a loan of money, you're going to be accumulating debts, you'll almost never be able to get out of the condition that you are in. And this is what Islam. This is what Allah subhanaw taala said to be haram and you understand it more if you go if you watch maybe documentary talking about loan sharks, because that's that's the essence of the imago chanter. What loan sharks do they give you the big acually a lot of interest, what banks do today is still the same concept exists, I mean, the home is still there, but it's done a lower skill, and there's a certain amount of it that is based on inflation, the certain amount of it that's actually based within the mortgage is based on

inflation, and the ones that are based on inflation. I mean, that amount is fine paying that money every three, four years, that 20 to $20,000 that you put for your house, you can calculate how much that is today. And then that difference can be added to your mortgage because because this is just currency that representing a certain amount of gold and that's not a problem. But it's it's other things that become problematic within contracts. As you said there can be just so in this case, the middle class was the

class for very long time middle can be very difficult for them.

Yeah, because

they don't they need money also. So they will also accumulate that people have the money that that they're the ones who are lending it out and they're lending the money right? So

what you're doing with that if when

When you hear people talking about money to the economy, where is the money going, no one knows where the money is going, who has all the money like the government doesn't seem to have enough money, institutions don't have enough money. People don't have money, who has the money, where's the money, the money is in the hands of the one point whatever percent of human beings on the planet listen to that, that are lending their monies to their side, their act, their money that they have to institutions, banks, governments, different organizations, based on interest, so they're maybe not lending it out to me to you and I directly they're lending it to the people who lend it to us

later on. So we don't have to see them there behind seems don't know who they are, or the names are hard to count. So the federal bank is the one that's giving out all the checks and lending us money. Well, who's giving the federal bank the money, there you go, that's to go find out those names, if you can, if you can find out those names, and they're not many of them. And, and it's based on the fact that money equals money as time progresses. And this is what there's a like, there's like a fun in that. And there's like of no one likes that those who have money don't like this at all, this doesn't serve those who have a lot of cash. This doesn't serve those who have a lot of golden silver

money, or who were running a monopoly on

staple food crops are the types of food that really, it doesn't serve them, because now they can't make more profit just based on the neediness of the people in front of them, or the lack of liquidity lucassi In terms of money and currency within the society, with with people who need it. So and that's the problem. And then that's the biggest problem, meaning you if you have money, you can make more money, but you have to play a risk like everyone else,

that you can afford it because you have a lot of money. If I have $3 million, I can I can I can risk 100,000 In a business. But if all I have is 50,000 And you're asking me to invest 100 with you, so I have to get all I have is 50 I had to get another 50 of that. And to put it in I can't I can't afford this. And I'm appealing more debt. But for you it's not the same thing. So you have to play your risk skeptic you have to put a risk, you have to be a risky, you know what, how much money that you have? But most most, most people have I don't like that. Yeah. Ideal? Yes. I'm listening. It's

like, you

know, in an Islamic state money is worthless, it's assets that are that are of value. So you don't hold on to money. You always keep money circulating in a in an Islamic state. Formula and nothing is is not valuable on its own. And when you think about it, that makes sense. What does gold do for you? If you're hungry? Cold, thirsty are sick?

Yeah, exactly. If you can, there's nothing doesn't do anything for you. But if you're hungry, you need food, you need clothing. That's what that's what that's That's true. That's true value, right? Knowledge that allows, but money itself is just a means to get it. So money holding on to money and stuff. That's all you have. The moment you hold on to money for too long. In Islamic case, it's a year for too long, you have to start giving it away, you have to give away 2.5%, which is not a small, it's small, but not too small, right? So it hurts just not enough to make you poor, but it does hurt because you're because you're holding on to money and assets, and you're not moving them

into society. So in Islamic State, you make money, awesome. Push it back in to make more or get more assets for it, get more food get more cool to get whatever it is, that is the worst, something that you can that can that can help you and guess

what it doesn't?

Like, you're gonna put that in a bank cheque, you're gonna get interest on checkings. But it has the magnet the vibe in the bank to make money. I'm

not saying you can't have money at all. I'm not saying that all Muslims should have zero cash at all times. No, you should have but where do you put it back? So how does the bank make money, they charge the fee for having a checking account. So that's like the easiest thing in the world. If I just consider it storage. Consider you're just storing any gold or cash with them. Right. And if they're going to invest, that's fine. They can ask you if the thing is you don't understand the system works, you put money in the bank, they immediately have access to 90% of that money to invest it without asking you immediately. The only hold on to 10% of what you actually put in there. But

you and I only put it what a couple of $1,000 It's a joke, but we're talking those who put in the millions. They have access by law to immediately if you put $10 $9 can be they can lend it out to people immediately and hold on just for one to $1 for you that's it in case you ask for it, they can give it back to you. But you could very easily come and ask the bank for money, your money the money that you see in your account, but they'll say don't have it right now. What do you mean you don't have because they invested it so you don't have to understand the monetary system how it actually works and then when you do you'll die you'll never want to touch a bank or enter a bank ever again

when you actually understand what how it actually works. But and as long as it no Islamic system. Yes, of course it'll be banks. It's just the regulation of these banks and how they would function would be a bit different or very different to be honest than then how it is right now.

What are the exceptions in terms of contracts that have been awarded exceptions for these exceptions that the scholars have accepted, especially in the Western world, the first one credit cards, you're allowed to have a credit card.

Based on the extreme need of having a credit card in this society, you need to have a credit card is impossible to get around. Without it, this has been established it almost beyond

the smallest shred of doubt you need a credit card to function doesn't mean that you're allowed to accumulate interest on it. I'm not saying it's okay to accumulate interest at any point, I'm telling you what contracts that however, are okay for you to enter, you're not allowed to pay it up. Listen to me, you're not allowed to pick it up. But this is how long you shouldn't be paying them at any point in your life for any reason. But these are the contracts that have a clause of ABA in them that you're allowed to sign based on extreme need, but you are not allowed to pay it and this is not a permissibility of us or anyone to pay it if at any point just make sure that's clear in terms of

what you're listening to. I'm just saying that the contracts that you're allowed to sign the second one

student loans

student loans are another context so OSAP if you want to get into

your 117 18 in the year two you want to get into

an undergrad program that's going to cost you $7,000 A month you have $7 A year and you have 7000 A year you don't have 7k a year so what are you gonna do now you finish that yeah, you have four years is 30 you're $30,000 in debt they want to go to medical school has said that for years that's 150k a year or some 25k or whatever depending on where you get into you don't have this money you will but you don't have it now so student loans are acceptable but you're not allowed to to accumulate ever if you don't have to meet you don't say well I can pay this anytime no you start paying the moment you start making money meaning you shouldn't be Yanni living a luxurious lifestyle with with student

loans because student loans will turn into or they do have a bit in them in the clause

now these are two that are pretty easy everyone except the third one is the one that people fight about a lot house mortgages

based on based on the conditions that those who have made it permissible put me based on the fatwa that was put in 2008 and then 2012 again and then again 2015 within the the group of scholars that talked about it in Berlin and the talks about in it twice in American cities, but you can look these up anyways they put down a number of conditions that apply again these are these are contracts that have been abandoned them I'm not saying in any way that this is permissible for you to pay to but I'm saying these are the contracts that you if you need if you you can enter even though they have a clause everywhere in the mashallah you never paid up. I mean, you pay on time. So if you pay these

on time, and within the grace periods that they have, you don't pay it at any point you're out of out of the problem of labor, is that if you're late or you know that you're gonna be late or you don't have money anymore, yeah.

Okay, so what are the conditions that exist here so I'll put down the ones that they talked about number one, you don't own up you don't own a house

is for a second is for livelihood.

You're going to live in the houses where you're going to be you're going to be living

there is no Islamic alternative or acceptable alternative.

You can't find anyone to give you the loan, there's no one actually to pay you to put this law in for you to buy the house and you pay them back that doesn't look dated. And finally look trust me alternatives. I didn't find anything that you could actually afford. Right.

So, the whole effect was based on a very simple point, which is that owning a home in the country that you reside in that you live in is an appraiser is a human right. So that is something that most scholars agree to long time ago and today. It is something that has been an Slavic concept that existed in a very young almost everyone as a Muslim, wherever you live, it is where you reside, then you have the right to own a home. That's why the final final one is that

either you come

from a war torn area

or

Canada for example.

As your main resident or residents

you live here you were born here that's where you live. You don't you're not here on a mission to finish studying or to make somebody and go back and live somewhere else. If this is where you're living is where you live. Then you have the right to own property where you live. You have the right not to be 90 living on a contract that would allow you to be evacuated or removed from your

from your living position at any time, another reason for this for this idea to come up is that slam can't be the reason that we are poor and wherever any place that we're living meaning, if you, for example, your parents, and you have six kids, and they're to rent a place that has enough space for eight people, you're gonna pay, you're gonna pay around $2,000 a month, if that can that's more than a mortgage. For if you have a decent house, not a big house, but regular $2,000 Actually more than a mortgage, you could be putting that towards a house that one day you actually own is yours. And then your kids have a place that they own that they can live, worst case scenario, they put a tent in the

backyard, and then they have a place to sleep at night, they're not gonna be thrown on the streets or something, something goes wrong. So in these situations, guy now, does that mean that as Muslims, we are, we're off the hook in terms of finding Islamic alternatives? No, this is something we should have found an alternative for a long time ago. Muslims have been here for what, 60 years, 67 years, at least this message over what 50 years now. So we've been here for a long time, if we don't have an alternative till this moment is very sad. And it's something that we should be it should change very, very quickly, very soon. But because I can't hold you accountable for the fact that our Muslim

community is lacking the ability to put together a fund a simple fund to help people buy homes, I can't hold you accountable with that this, this, this exists. But that doesn't mean that the community is not at fault. It's not sin as a group, for not having an alternative meaning as a Muslim, as a community. We're all at sin, finding, finding a proper alternative for people to be able to buy homes and to get married and to do other do go for hygiene stuff like that is a fuddled cafe, meaning it's a fuddled upon everyone until some group does it, and then it's no longer a front bonus is going to fruit like that there's a lot of obligations, where it's obligatory upon everyone

until a group does it and gets it done. And then it's not a big deal. This isn't obligatory upon all of us, until someone, some group finds a way to set it up so that we can actually benefit from it. So this is not to excuse the fact that we don't know there's not to excuse me, but this is the the exception. And until that is fixed, the same thing goes for credit cards and student loans or other things. I mean, it's not very hard for 3000 Muslims in the community to come up with new ways to fix these problems, whether house mortgages or student loans. It's doable, and we can take people out of getting into contracts of riba easily and then with yourself with the credit card credit cards,

maybe that needs as a tertiary or fourth step down the road. And in terms of how do you actually

substitute for it because it's a bit harder, but it's also doable. So what's not okay, in terms of exceptions? What's not an exception?

car leases,

or finances?

Is this for? Sorry?

I did you

know, there's only these three Sorry, man made of

just last two.

Yes, yes. The final one is SubhanAllah. I know it's

it's life insurance the final

cell phones.

Okay, interesting.

So what type of cell phones what type? Are we talking about? So

on the tabs that you have

cell phone and you want to be billed?

Yeah, that's but that but that works for everything that you don't pay cash for. So we're not talking about that we're talking about I'm talking about small assets that basically when you when you do things, when you when you so if you have cable, or if you have internet, if you have internet, you don't pay interest? Well, because that's how the system works here. Everything that you have a monthly subscription to can accumulate riba upon you within the country.

Now I'm not talking about I'm talking about the anatomy, those are fine, you have no other choice, really, you basically sit around with nothing. You can't you can't you can't buy anything. You got to breathe the air. You can drink water. Yeah, everything has been a tear. But I'm talking about the contracts that are bigger than you sign and the clause now is going to be Yanni active. These are these are more monthly prescriptive subscriptions that you can find final ones life insurance,

or insurance, generally speaking insurance. So what about insurance? Insurance is not a problem with its actual concept, the concept of us putting together a fund where we,

where we take care of those who demographically and statistically will fall into certain types of problems. That's a form of the capitalist deny of social, any empathy or social closeness within Islamic gang Islamic law. So I know statistically, that many we've studied, we've studied human populations in our country for a long time. Statistically, and this is a science. We do a census and we know the number of people and I know that within this age group that are sitting here, how many people will die before the age of

40. And then we have a percentage of people that will die and we know that total

We'll be Sickler. So you're talking about this talk about a very difficult disease,

something a beautiful disease like cancer. So that what is the what is the potential of people who will be diagnosed with that, and then we have a certain percentage, let's say it's 1%, one point half 1.5%. So 1.5%, the people 2%, because it make it to just make it easier to prevent people are going to die. So out of every 100 people, two people are going to have that. So we need a certain amount of money to cover these people, what is the average cost for them to for treatment of a cancer patient is between a certain number, let's say it's around $60,000, or $50,000. So that means if we can gather from this group $100,000, then we will be able to cover their whoever is going to

get a disease, that's that's the and then we increase the number of encase, there's a the statistics are odd, because it's always plus my I'm just giving you a simple example of how this works. It's just it's so much more complicated, complex and, and detailed than that, then that's actually a form of taking care of people. If you and I, if the percentage of people in our age group dying is a certain percentage, 1% of us die before the age of 40. Well, we die at a time when we're not fully established, and we're gonna leave behind us, wives and children, who's going to support them, if we put a fund together, where we do the math, and we know that this is how much money we need to cover.

For people, we're talking about a famine coming through or war, I'm talking about something that's like almost normal life kind of going forward. And then we cover those people, that's actually a good thing. The problem with insurance is not the concept, the problem insurance is the practice. The practice itself is garbage. I mean, the insurance companies are the biggest crooks on the planet, hands down, they are the biggest beneficiaries of money.

No one even comes close, not even a weapon company for a pharmaceutical companies, tobacco none, and no one comes close to how much they make they make insane amounts of money. And the end, the thing is that they take it and they don't recycle it back to those who actually paid it. So they just hold on to the, to the lion's the lion's share of the money that's been given. So the concept of life insurance is not haram in its in its essence. And it's, it's problematic in terms of its of its of its of its practice. But if Why Why put it here, because a lot of times you'll be working where you have no choice but to you have to buy this, like as an employee, or as a CIO, you have to, you have

to, you know, sign this off. And it's not a problem, you can sign it off, you can sign off this specifically as life insurance. And there is a certain amount of, but if you don't, if you do have the choice, and you shouldn't get into music, you shouldn't, by choice, actually go buy life insurance. But if you're put into this position where you're working, you're required to sign it. And if you don't sign that you're gonna lose benefits, you're gonna lose, then you sign it. And that's not a problem, because the actual essence of the idea is not enough. But there are differences of opinion about these last two.

And there's a lot of scholars who will

call me out on this and be very upset that I said these things. But the first two are pretty much agreed upon Yanni within North America, at least in most scholars around the world. But here now there's a difference of opinion. But this is what i This is the opinion that I carry. I believe that it's valid enough. And I believe that

we're going to need to

charged. So yeah, so I put my because the most difficult there everything else is simple. Everything is much, much more simple, but I'm talking about car insurance. My life is the big one is the one that everyone seems to get very upset about. But everything else is much more simple. So car leases or finances not okay.

One that has a big check, question mark around business loans.

These are not exceptions, I believe today, I have a beef with this one in terms of business loans. Because it comes back to the same principle that we talked about when talking about hold house or home mortgages. Business loans for people who are living here are needed in order for Muslims to make progress within the society that they have. So it is something that I question. I don't believe that we're at a point where I'm not comfortable saying that it's permissive. I believe that's impermissible at this point. But I do believe that we have to find some alternative for it. You have people who are in firms, lawyers, and they want to buy into their firm, or you have people who want

to get out of working with Yanni working

as partners with non Muslims who are bringing into their into their firm or regardless of whether whether it's a medical practice, or it's a restaurant bringing things that if they're uncomfortable to want to get out and do their own thing and have an Islamic chain Islamic name, but they need a loan to do it. We have to have alternatives for this. We can't just see a guy just say to someone that this is haram and that's it and they have no actual alternative because your business loans are huge amounts of money. Like this here is big stuff. This is not as big any house mortgage is pretty small, like

just one. But here is big. You're talking in the millions, it's a million and a half or 2 million sometimes to buy out and to do your own thing to get that load. So do we have alternatives we should have generally don't but I still think it's been permissible because it's because of the amount of money because this is where it really becomes a problem. Small amounts of me by the way, you do need to

Anybody pay attention to the following, he who takes it above is not equal to he who has to pay it.

Okay, this is an important part of understanding of the phenomenon called riba above and mobile if all those who believe do not eat above, anyone fold over the other 90 Before the fun fold, don't eat. But when I'm forced to pay you, that's a different thing. I'm not saying it's, it is still haram. But you cannot equalize between He who is forced to take a loan and pay back more, and he who has the money, but he's asking for more, they're not the same. They're not the same. They're not equal this, this is pure evil. This is an associate or in any of our of evil itself. So there are differences in terms of those who pay and those who take so when you're when you're when you're of

course taking is haram, there are no exceptions. There are literally no exceptions. These are exceptions for paying for taking.

Taking it over is always harder. There are no exceptions to that rule at any point for any reason anywhere. But giving. These are the exceptions that we today we can see, there's a need to give an exception for Ebola. I mean, this is something we're forced to the moment that the rule has gone. We take this out like this is just temporary until we can fix the problem.

Let's say you have a lot of money. Why should I let other people

benefit out of it? Well, that's what Allah subhanaw taala said you don't have to do if you don't believe in Allah. That's a whole different story.

As us as a person, Yeah, cuz it's a very simple thing. Some things come down to one simple question. Do you believe in the law in the law? Yes, you do. You don't have to take it over. If you don't, then fine.

I can benefit from the first and best invest in somewhere. Instead of instead of here's here's the money and give me back to the guy who two more $50,000 more when you're done. I don't care what you're doing. I don't care who you are. I don't care what you're trying to do. It's none of my business. I'm not interested just getting back more money. Okay, what do you want to do? I want to start a magazine. Okay, how much is that going to cost? Do you have an idea? Let me see what you have. Okay, I'll invest in that. And now he's a partner. He's carrying risk, but he also make a profit it works out. The thing is that people have made don't want to carry risk doesn't make sense.

If you have money, you don't want to carry risk. You have money. Why would you want to carry risk, but you don't have money. So you're willing to carry a risk has nothing to lose you already. You already don't have any money. But if I do have my I don't want to carry risk. Islam says you have money, you have to carry risk because the money isn't yours. It's Allah subhanaw. Taala is money. It's in your hands. Carrying risk is a part of life, you carry risk every time you do everything. So money isn't an exception to this. Or it's exploiting people's need. It's

as simple as exploiting people's needs, that's all. No one would enter no one asked for a loan if they had the cash. Correct. Why would you ask for a loan? Why would you ever ever need a loan? If you had the money in your pocket? You would never do it. So this is this is the idea that comes back? Of course, that's something we're talking about. What about fighting off revise Muslims sounds psychotic to Western civilization's? Because to them money means more money and time means money. And what are you talking about? That's how we live here. Yeah, but that's it's okay to challenge a fundamental principle when is fundamentally wrong. It's not a problem, but it's here to define very

a lot of difficulty in terms of accepting that Yeah.

A good topic and was kind of torture.

I need a camera.

On my business. I don't have money you buy me the camera. Give me money, but you buy me camera? Yes.

$1,000 1500 in 10 years, with this much fixed 3% additional.

So the thing is, who is the camera that you're gonna you're paying for owned by.

So there's three parties here. Alright. So here's, here's the problem with this, with this hybrid hypotheses are hypothetical. You have the group

here, cameras here.

So here's the owner of the camera, right? Here's you. You don't have a camera. And then here's the third guy here. Who's the hoot. We're gonna call him Habib.

So, Habib, right, he's gonna buy he has the money.

That's where the money is, is with hobby. So what are you going to do?

So if he buys the camera, so the cameras now here

it goes over here and here with the cameras.

And then he sells it to you. Right for more. No problem. That's fine. He bought this camera for 1000 He's gonna sell this camera

for 1200 That's right. He can sell this camera for 100,000 He can do whatever he wants his his camera you can sell it for whatever the guy that you know the guy here wants to buy it for you because he's look if he if you are going to accept it. 100,000 That's your problem that

You do whatever, if you're gonna look at a camera, say I'm willing to pay $100,000. And that's your problem, it's not his problem, he can sell it for everyone because it's his camera. Now what they do, that's not what they do. And when. And when you say there's a fixed rate, a fixed rate, just inflation, fixed rates, when you see the word fixed rate, it's not it, but it's inflation, fixed rates are in fleet.

Fixed rates equal inflation,

does not equal to, it's not the same thing. It's not the same thing. This is just based on the fact that currency is going to lose its amount, it's not fair. If I'm going to I bought it for 1000, I'm gonna sell it to you for 1200. Right, but by the time you're done, which is maybe like five years from now, the 1200 is not worth your 1000 that I bought it for, like I lost, I lost money in this transaction. And we're not seeing that as someone who has money should be losing their money. We're just saying that they have to take risk like everyone else, that's Oh, meaning make money just make it with with with a factor of risk. That is that is acceptable. So here, if you add a fixed rate,

that's not a problem, the problem is, is the person who's selling it to you actually owning it? Are they not really owning it mean? Meaning? Did they buy it? Or what they do? There's a different system that exists here that I don't understand fully, where where the camera goes immediately from here, just with some interference of meaning, meaning it's not really

the paper? Yeah, so there's something here that goes from from from the owner to you. It's just an interference of the banks really not having a

cost to the company who is believing that

they would own but bank would pay directly to the company. Okay. And now you pay the bank. Right? So what is the contract that the bank has that you have with the bank? 70%? Additional? Six? Yeah, so So what's the percent on on the $1,000? So you would pay them to $10,030? Yeah, that's fine. Because again, they already be paid for it. They don't have the money, I don't get any money in my account, it goes directly. You don't get money money in your account, they buy directly for it by all equipment, they just the company. In theory, in theory, the idea that the idea is fine. But in in, in practice, if at no point, the bank ever owned the camera here on the asset,

it becomes a problem like how would they pay for you.

Because it turns into loan, it turns into a loan turned into a loan. But if they owned it, and then they sold it, they're playing a risk between owning it and selling it, there's some time there where they could end up with the asset without you actually doing anything. Because when the when the cameras no longer is no longer you can't pay for it, who gets in fact, the bank or the owner.

The owner gets it backs up the bank, the bank has to take it back is that we have to own it. So when it's done like this, that's fine. When it's done like that, it turns into a loan, a loan that that has the hazard but in it, but if that and that can change, the thing is all these things can change, just banks are too lazy to change it. So that's regarding business loans, meaning small changes in the contract could actually change the outcome of how we run it. But that's that's the challenge a lot. It even comes to house mortgages. House mortgages, are so simple. If you can just convince the banks to rewrite some of the contract clauses, leasing cars, at least in current findings of cars,

small clauses within the contract could ticket out of and they will still make a good profit and we'd be happy with the thing is, there's laziness in terms of changing that we there's not enough demand from listeners, we haven't able to organize as most of them to put a demand that we want, deliver free contracts, make a bit more money off of us in the long run, but give us clear contracts that are free. And if there is a hit there's a demand for that we will get it just like there was no halal meat maybe 25 years ago, 30 years ago here and now there is because the demand for it there will be for all these things if we just put a demand for it. I mean, we want to clause you want a

contract that has that is that is it about free? Do I just like to question

you said about credit cards,

like these days is Visa debit.

I don't have credit cards for years. Okay, sure. Visa debits. And you have to pay what you want in the account. works online everything. The only thing is government websites.

If you're good boy, all those exceptions, something that's better.

You'll be rewarded course.

Hands down like you've got actually won any any exception that exists. If you choose to exceptions that are based on the rule or based on extreme need, or necessity, that you find a way to avoid altogether you get rewarded, we offer them as an exception

Based on based on observation of needs, meaning 40 looks at the need. And based on the observation he makes, he offers an exception. But if you're capable of staying away from it, then of course, you're gonna be rewarded more than everyone. Yes. And then the second question is, okay, so students don't Sermo makes perfect sense credit cards as well.

The third one would be more sure mortgages, the fixed rate is inflation. So

isn't isn't late payments, but never always, always enters one of those with the clauses when there's a late payment. So when you're late on paying, or you can afford to put in the full amount, labor starts to accumulate on you the way they do revised amortization schedule where like, you have 35 year loan, let's say it's a $300,000, your monthly payments of 1000. For example,

what they do is the first month 10% or less goes to a principle that 90% is collected, and they call it.

And then what happens is, as the contract goes near the end of the contract, it's flipped around, just like a stealer hat, meaning these are just terminology that they use. Not always, like I said, the word Jani interest in is used a lot, it doesn't always mean that but because they don't have the concept of about anywhere. So they use the word interest and anywhere they want, they don't care about but for us, because it means deliver, or that's what we think it means. Every time we see it, we hit the brakes, and we have a heart attack, because it's about but the truth of the matter is a lot of the times when they're using the word interest, it's not really liver, it's something it's

something it's representing something different. So in that case, it's not. That's not That's not the liberal part, no, the real part is is attached to when you are being late on payments, so you're not actually making the proper payments, they start the car, the the basic amount that you pay starts to increase, meaning you're starting to be required to pay more than you had initially agreed to pay in the contract that you wrote. So when I wrote when I when I signed that contract, why it agreed to a certain amount on 35 years to pay when I'm not paying, instead of instead of there being a system, I'm just adding I'm just gonna pay more and more and more as I go along. And that's it.

Like I said, a lot of the all the for context for you, you could easily never ever, ever pay a sense of Riba. But the thing is, if you the Hodor. Man, I told you guys, this was this time, I'll tell you again, the home of impermissibility is signing a contract, it has a clause of Riba in it, that is the problem. It's not really whether you pay it or not. Most people go through their lives with credit cards, student loans, house mortgages, and business loans never pay us into Vivah. But the thing is that you actually signed a contract that has its investor problem

is gonna go back to the same credit card.

Yes, exactly. So not so I gave four exceptions to meaning. Four exceptions were credit cards, student loans, house mortgages, and life insurance. These four have exceptions that some different upon credit cards and student loans aren't different upon but the fact that you we haven't conquered them is you've already signed the contract that has a clause of liberty, you may end up paying me not close people hamdullah you don't end up paying any labor. But the fact that you entered the agreement that has been it, that's the problem. Really, it's not really, we're not supposed to be at about any point for any reason. But signing a contract that has it has the possibility of

represented, that is the problem.

Every month regularly, you're not paying liver. But the problem is, that's not what the scholars were arguing or talking about at the time they they were talking to is it okay for us to sign a contract? Has it been in it for a house? Forget about being done with it? Well, that's not supposed to be but I don't know, if you know that you don't have enough money to pay for this house, It's haram for you to enter this contract altogether. But let's say that you know that you'll be able to do it, you have a sustainable job, and you have enough money in your savings in your castle to take care of at least a couple of months of employment and you see forward in your life and inshallah you

have the skills to stay employed. Is it okay to sign a contract that has a rubber clause? That is the problem really? It's haram to pay it at any point? Yeah. I have to process it. Sorry.

So let's say you have like, did you take care today? Yeah, so the same thing. So there for the for I should have looked them up to the four exceptions, that the scholars have talked about two agreed upon two disagreed upon the two agreed upon are credit cards and student loans are to disagree to find our house mortgages have life insurance. So as a student, as a student,

you're signing a contract that has no money in it. But that seemed permissible out of the exception that there's no other way for you to get into an education in this society without doing that unless there is an Islamic alternative. So if you your father is a millionaire, then you shouldn't take a student loans if they can lend you the money or pay it for you. Does that answer your question? Okay. Why did you say that?

Leasing financing cars is because there's a clause that have been done to and cars aren't necessities, meaning you can easily go to the auction and buy a $600 car I have a ticket at $500.96 years ago and I'm done. So you don't have to unless you want to actually enjoy a good car. That's a different thing. So financing cars and leasing cars I don't believe to be an accident. I need an exception because not as

The city. But the thing is you can easily this is the this is the annoying part that you could easily sit with a dealer and rewrite the contracts to take all the clauses of Riba and they'll still be happy with what they end up getting in case you're late, they'll be happy with it. But I think it's just a matter of sort of, let's say to the dealer, he's dealing to order cars, now he has to stick to whatever contracts are given to him from the source to change that is a long process that he's not willing to, it's a headache that he's not willing to go through just to sell you or leaves you or finance your car. But if there was demand for it, if there wasn't gonna be demanded these

things more, you could easily get contracts for cars, for houses for life insurance for any that does not have clauses available within it. But the problem with us is just we're not we're not there yet. In terms of yawn you read one more time? What did you say about business?

So business loans, if the bank is buying the assets and selling it to you, they can sell it to you for a while, for as much as they want fixed rates aren't a problem. But if they're not selling it to you, meaning they are literally what the contract is saying that it's a business loan, meaning they lent you the money to pay them back with interest on it.

That's the problem. Again, the fixed rate is not the price, it's inflation, is the fact that they have rebuilt clauses within its meaning if you're late, and if you're, and you're saying the problem, or the problem is the is the clause that if you don't do it on time, it accumulates on the capital that you that you agreed to, it's gonna it's going to increase. And it's limitlessly going to increase again, if there was a penalty, like a $50 $100 penalty, that would be the last time and after that, that we had to take back the acid or change our Yani. But no, it's a limitless increasing, it'll just keep on increasing. They'll keep on accumulating debt.

You see things like for the car service, and still there's there's clauses there.

No, no, no.

We keep things exactly so so there's a lot of misconception I took me a while to understand I'm not in Islamic sciences. Finance is not my specialty. There's not what I do, I actually got to go and have to learn all these things in terms of how the system here works. I found out that we misunderstand the word interest, we don't even know we're gonna use not use most of the things namely River and stuff, but it is a small clauses that exists in contracts that will cause you to pay more than what you agreed initially to pay based on you being late in time being later on. That is where that changes a lot of things if all you need is maybe 15 Jonnie economically oriented

individuals to go to the right

institutions start writing and certifying contracts that would be that would that would serve Muslims in terms of being and things would change drastically for Muslims living here.

We want them to make money just not through the ABA. And they would be okay with that if they just saw the demand for it. But we don't we're not providing the demand. Because we're taking the shortcut every single time. The four exceptions are there, but everything else you shouldn't be taking the shortcut for. And instead maybe look for people to help you get Diani the

car dealerships.

Where are they?

funded? But this is like what they would do. For example, say they have a car for $10,000 on the lot. Yeah. Cash, they'll sell it for 10. But then they'll say, Okay, you want monthly payments? For 13. That's fine. Yeah. Whenever we pay pay, paying in installments, the price can change. That's fine. As long as I own the asset and I'm selling it to you. I'm not putting in whatever clauses in case you're later in case you don't pay the full amount every single month. I'm not adding to that right I can fixed rates on long periods of time, like years and years. Makes sense because the amount of the value of the currency is plummeting. You want to make sure that whoever bought this

house is not losing money at the end, he's still making it. So none of these are problematic. Okay, went with them. We only read one sentence today, but until next time, we will try to read and we'll keep the questions until the end so I can look at some

really good