Channel: Umm Jamaal ud-Din
© No part of this transcript may be copied or referenced or transmitted in any way whatsoever. Transcripts are auto-generated and thus will be be inaccurate. We are working on a system to allow volunteers to edit transcripts in a controlled system.
Welcome back everyone. As discussed earlier, tonight's episode we're looking at the struggles of parenting Muslim kids and raising pious children in its very own Islamic society that we're living in. And joining me in this discussion tonight are two very well equipped women to speak on this topic of parenting pious kids. We have Jeff and Jim Aladeen and sister and eastercon. I want to introduce them with a quick bio of the two of them. So chef Antonella Dean, I think most of you all know she's a very well known Dotty, public speaker and teacher of women for more than 20 years. She has a Bachelor in thick and swollen feet from El Medina International University, and has been a
teacher both called ad and various Islamic Sciences at much of the Sunnah in Sydney for more than 15 years, Mashallah. She's also amongst the first to qualified females in Australia to become official members of the Australian National Imam Council and is currently in her second year of masters in Salt Lake along with added commercial law. And we have SR and eastercon, a very well known and much loved member of the Sydney Muslim community. She is a mom to multiple multiple kids serial entrepreneur, having established and run several successful businesses, that and a passionate activist when it comes to rewrite Muslims, Muslims with disabilities and special needs and other
segments of our community. She currently operates grow with me childcare and Donald SN preschool, and she regularly gives classes and talks and various other types of Islamic events. So welcome both of you. Again, thank you so much for being here tonight. Thank you.
Okay, so the topic today we're looking into the struggles of raising Muslim children. Before we go into the deep discussion. Can I get you both to tell me your current parenting situation? Like how many children do you have? What schooling system did you choose for them private school, public school or homeschool? And the age group so what we'll start with the shift, okay, I'm just gonna want hamdu lillah wa Salatu was Salam ala Rasulillah Wanda le, he was Sufi on anyway.
So Hamdulillah I mean, firstly, Allah He to Allah can say I'm kind of, I've kind of crossed over the mountain of raising children pretty much now.
Is it is kind of the much nicer site where you inshallah
so I've got five kids.
I've got the oldest is 29. I've got 100 twins, who are 26. And then I have a daughter who's 20. And I have a son who's just turned 16 Oh, wow. Yeah. Hamdulillah. So you know what I mean? This is like the much. This is a lot of hard work. I'm here to give, you know, a bit of hope to people tonight and shall I hope
that you know, Inshallah, it is possible. And we all can do it in the lab, you know, and it's really good to have those people there to reassure you because it is a scary thing going into parenting in in these times. Yeah. Yeah. And you bet my education. What like, yeah, what did you choose it? Yeah. Yeah. So look, we we did choose Islamic school education for our children. Yep. But that's because the Islamic schools are available, we weren't quite happy with what they had. Because there, you know, Islamic schools differ. And even the same school can differ, you know, within decades, that can that can dramatically change. So it all depends on who's running the school, you know, there's
help the school environments can completely change. Like, there are certain schools that I at one stage and one put my kids in, but then they change in the became a much, much better environment. So, you know, everyone listening tonight, if they're in Sydney, it's gonna be different than if you're in Melbourne. So you just have to sort of see what's available for you and sort of sound out. You know how it is. Yeah, that's right. You're gonna go a bit more deeper into the whole schooling system and Sharla and Isa, what about you? Yes. Your parents think situation? Mindset a little bit everywhere. I'm sort of similar to sister optimality. No, I've gone past that sort of, I guess, the
most challenging physically challenging years. So what is your youngest Chancellor? My youngest is 5015. My eldest is 22. My son and my daughter is 20. And they're both in their final year of uni. And so I basically my eldest I homeschooled him for a year it wasn't for him. So he actually went through a private schooling he did. And my youngest two went to school for a little bit and the rest of the years was homeschooling. So my youngest is still being homeschooled. My daughter was homeschooled also and actually went to university through that same process. She did 100 in there. And like I said, it's, it was a personal choice. And it was something that I needed for my children.
every child's got a different temperament and personality. Yeah. And I just believe the schooling system, most of them. They're just systems in place where they're just making our kids. It's a robotic process. And look, homeschooling is not for every child. It's not for every family. There are things that you need to get within your own sphere at the end of the day. So yeah, so that's pretty much my my kids are up to my shoulder, no particular with your children. Okay, and so let's start with you. What do you think are the biggest challenges that Muslim parents face
Are you seeing right now raising pious children in this an Islamic environment? Look, I this is real talk, okay, so
we will go into a little bit later about, you know, you know, the disconnection that we have, you know, social media platforms, the environment, all of that, I just want to shift back, take a step back and as parents, so as parents what we need to realize, when a woman or you know, becomes a mother, we give birth, we're going through the process of raising children. And what we need to remember is that we're also raising ourselves, number one. And we're all living in this world where, you know, there's this ideal that we have, and we want to raise our children. Right. Okay, so But you're right, my right, and system demanded is right, is going to be different. Because we have even
though we're Muslim, we have different set of, you know, family, you know, values or ideals, or whether it's culturally infiltrated or, you know, a lot of these factors. So the right way, there's no, right. Everyone has different family dynamics. That's right, exactly. The second challenge in terms of parenting that we're facing is that many of us weren't raised with emotional intelligence. And were because the previous generation of parents, it was all about putting bread and butter on the table, getting your kids through school, then your generation, we have the support system of our family, most of us, and then we're trying to break that cycle of tapping into that emotional
intelligence. So that's another one of the challenges that we as parents were having we are. And the other thing was parents also working, many of us didn't receive unconditional love. Right? We didn't, that's the truth. And now we're trying to break those stereotypes or those barriers, and thinking or how does it work? How do we do it? How do we give our children unconditional love? Right? So it's this sort of crisis in terms of parenting with the new generation I'm talking about that we're going through. So leaving, you know, fast forward in terms of children, because of the preconceived things that I'm talking about as parents, we were having that problem in terms of
connecting with our children? What is the right, you know, you know, quality time to give to our children? Like just filling in the gaps that were there from the way that we were raised with our parents? That's right, exactly. Definitely. And, and I'm finding the disconnect also, is there obviously there's external factors in terms of environment that's influencing our children. But also, in addition to that, it's us not giving our children quality time, we honestly aren't giving quality time. And we are not openly communicating with children's I am at schools, and I'm seeing little kids coming in. And sometimes I feel like telling parents that are coming in that if you're
not got, you're in such a rush to drop off the kids. I know, we all have hectic lifestyles, but if you're not going to listen to the little things that the little kids say, they're not going to tell you the big things when they're big. Yeah, they're not going to Yeah, that's a simple, simple equation. Wow. Chef, do you have anything you want to add to that? Yeah. What I see is, a lot of people are not aware as to not really aware of the just the
amount of negative, you know, pressures on kids today. Right? And,
you know, the other thing is to that.
Like, okay, so in order to, to to raise your children inshallah successfully, you really need to have your eyes open, and be aware of what's, you know, what's going, what's going, what's it gonna take, like, even with me with raising my children all those years ago, it wasn't like it is today. So that means you're going to have to do, you're going to have to really, you know, sort of solidify your base very strongly, in order to, you know, safely get through this, this time constantly change. Oh, that's right. So it's going to take, you know, the greater the challenges, the more we have to we're going to have to, you know, greater input into, you know, sort of, like solidifying
our foundations with our kids. Right. And the other thing is that, um, another thing I was going to say, which is kind of one of my mind.
But, um, yeah, like, that's what I want to say for now. But basically, yeah, just sort of solidifying, being aware of the word being aware of, you know, just the environment you're bringing your kids into, because if you're not aware, if you haven't, if you're not having a realistic understanding, oh, yes, that's what it is. The problem we have today is that people are becoming just so busy with their lives like, and materialism has become, you know, such an important value for so many people. And so people you see them, like, they're so worried about, you know, giving my kids the best education, which of course, we all want put education for our kids, but, you know,
we've got to have all the gadgets, we've got to have, you know, the best holidays, you know, and so they lose their focus in what is the most important thing. Yeah. Which is what you just want to get that child to join them ultimately,
So the greatest success for any parent is successfully raising your child to enable them to enter John nine Shama that is, that is the greatest goal for every parent and like, don't ever lose sight of that it's not worth it. Like, you know, even you know, it doesn't matter what your child ends up honestly, as far as like, of course, we all hope they have a great education and everything. But that's not as important as person mind you that we can't yet we need at the end of the day. That's what we're aiming for. Yes, so yeah, so this is where people are losing their focus, I see them like, you know, get them in this book, best sports, get them the best clothes, get them the best
holidays, you thinking that all that is going to, you know, give your child's success. But you know, like, I remember one of my dear friends telling me, you know, that she knew of one lady, for example, who done all that for our kids. One became a doctor one became an engineer. But guess what? He doesn't remember his mother? No, you don't? Because it lost their assignment values? Yeah. So what's the price? And look everybody, like, I just want to say as well, please, when you raise your children, you've got to always be thinking, keeping the end in mind, you've got everything you do with your kids, you've got to be constantly keeping the end in mind, every decision you make. It
has, it has consequences, you know, so like, while you're tied up worrying about all these, like sort of trivial matters, there are greater matters, like, we all know that there are people Mela, protect us in our community who have left Islam completely gone astray, like the heart ache, you know, it's better to put the effort in, you know, and you know, really
do do the groundwork, Inshallah, with the help of Allah. And you might have to go through a bit of sacrifice in those early years, yes, but it's better to do that, than to go through metal detectors or pain later on, yeah. Estimate pain. And as people to understand that, you just really got to understand what environment are we raising our children in today, it's not like, in the past, life was much more simple. You know, there wasn't this exposure that kids have today. So there was just a little village town, you had your grandma, you had your shares you had, you don't I mean, and kids didn't know any better. And they just wrote, you know, and you could afford to let your kids just
play outside and not really have as much connection maybe with them, because I had connection with so many people. But our upbringing in the environment that we were raised in even Australia is so different to the environment that the kids are being raised in now. And we have to keep up with that. And then also try and protect them from going to go into this into details. Sorry, go. The other point, they both turned around and was talking about two that you we didn't have to worry so much about them. Another thing is, even from an Islamic perspective, we've actually moved away from our family values were people in our community actually disconnected within their own family
members, with their siblings or grandparents and we grew up all the time around our grandparents, right. And the the knowledge that children gain from spending time with their aunts, uncles, with their grandparents, the experiences that grandparents have gone through the wisdom and insight that they have, to ours, it's actually proven to ours that a child spends with their grandparents on what they learned in terms of experiences is more beneficial for them, then them spending an entire week at school. Wow. That's just to think that we only do that, like on the weekends, or we're gonna go to our grandparents, no, we've got to make this if not a daily habit, even if it's through zoom,
where they and these are where they build these trust relationships, right. And then again, it's the whole materialistic aspect, when the kids grew up, the only thing they're going to remember, is the time that you gave to them, not the materialistic things that you gave them. The time, I think, I think an important point to raise you to is that not everybody has that extended family, you know, that that's now the added pressure of having it was a blessing to come here as refugees and I have the, you know, the extended family to back them up, you've got a lot of single mothers out there, a lot of reverbs that they don't have all these and so it's everything's on them, you know, working,
trying to raise the child, you know, try to somehow give that quality time and balance. And then you've got all these social pressures. And it's, it's, that's, that's what's making it so much more difficult for people as
well, some really good points raised here. Did you want to say something else? I don't
know. Sorry. This discussion is gonna go very deep. And all the points that you mentioned, actually want to go deeper into all of them. So we'll tackle them one at a time. Going back to how you mentioned this distant and disconnected? Yeah. Do you think parents are feeling distant and disconnected from their children? And if so, what do you think are the main reasons that are causing this? Yes? 100% Yeah, sorry. Do you want to go?
From my personal experience? 100% they are feeling disconnected. Yeah. To have again, two of the main factors, okay. I understand that we live in a fast paced society. There's a lot of women who are single moms that need to go to work, or women that are just contributing to the household, you know, budget and income. But it's number one, we're disconnected because we are not giving
Quality Time to one another at all. And we are not prioritizing our, our lifestyle in time I'm talking about work, I'm talking about what we're doing with our children, the activities, the conversations that we're having. And I say this in all my lessons that, you know, happiness comes from being confident, right. And we don't have a lot of confident children in our in our generation at the moment wise, because that happiness that is comes from confidence only comes from having really good communication. And when you've got a really good communication, your relationship is stronger, when your relationship is stronger, your communication is stronger, right. And so they
actually intertwined. So when they have this level of confidence, which stems from happiness, they're going to have creativity and character. And I find that we have a huge gap in our community, where we're even as families, you go to the restaurant, you see them with the parents on their phones, the kids on some sort of gadget, they just don't they don't actually know how to connect with one another anymore. Everyone is sitting around the same table, not even looking at each other. That's right, yeah, you know, that contact with them. So the digital era that we live in is definitely making us disconnected and consuming our souls trying to keep up with the Jones. Yeah,
that's really what competition. Like. I think that's social media probably has a lot to play in. Oh, definitely. See, to the subconscious, rather, people are doing nowadays, we couldn't see what our family for now, up to but now it's like, you know, if they bought a new car, yeah, yeah. Like, Oh, definitely. And I think that the kids also known as teens, they have a lack of, you know, of identity, self identity is an identity crisis, from a spiritual perspective also, and also from again, lack of confidence, because parents are constantly I'm seeing, you know, they're raising their children, or caught to keep other people happy. Not according to what makes their child happy.
Wow. Does that make sense? Yeah. What are people going to think? Oh, you know, you're supposed to become a lawyer, you're supposed to become a doctor. And but what is it that interests your child? What makes your child it was also an issue in our generation as well. Yes. Especially like for me growing up in like, a very conservative Pakistani environment as well. Yes. There was a big pressure on what are people going to think? Yes, yeah. Yeah. And I guess that's a big, that plays a huge role in that disconnection with a child. It does definitely. And all of a sudden, the, the child thinks, Oh, my parent doesn't love me unconditionally, for who I am, or for what I am, right? It's all about
what other people think at the end of the day, the other people aren't going to be there. You know, so allow them to excel in what makes them content and happy. Wow, some really good points there. shattered. Yeah. Again, I think it's really important to realize,
children, what they're going to need more than ever now is, you know, emotional security. And that only comes through, you know, that, that quality, attention and love, and, you know, expressing emotions to your children, and really, and really spending that time making them feel valued for who they are. And, you know, watching that you're not over criticizing all of those things. Because if you've really laid that foundation for when they're small, where they feel that you're a safe space for them, they can share anything with you. Okay? And that's why people have to be careful, because, you know, yes, we are practicing Muslims. But we also have to be careful. Sometimes our kids are
going to come home, and they're going to tell us something that might shock us a bit. Yeah. But you have to get real and wake up and realize what environment you're wet raising your children in. Yeah. And so that way, you'll be able to, you need to be able to be more open minded. And because if you start, you know, overreacting when your child tells you certain things, once they lose that safe connection with you, this is where they start disconnecting? Yeah, you know, so he's such a good point. Yeah, to be connected to your child, you really have to be aware of the what they're growing up in, and how different it is to what you were growing up in. You just need to have that open
conversation like that needs to be a daily thing. Each child needs to be a daily Heart to Heart conversations. And not just how are you I'm good mom. No, yeah, no, get more into it. How's that friend? You've got to learn to be a person who kind of, you know, go more into details. Don't just accept Yeah, good. Everything was great. How school? You know, how's your friend and tried to go a bit more on how did you go on that test, like, try to keep on probing and getting into conversations, but, but not in a way that like, makes them feel like them. But you don't try to say like, they need to feel safe with you. But if you've developed that from when they're small, you'll
find that they actually enjoy coming to you. We want them to enjoy coming to us, finding us a safe space because one of the biggest complaints a lot of children make today is I feel closer to my friends than or I can speak more safely to my friends that I can speak to my own parents, you know, and that's what makes people disconnect. And then realize that you have a point you know, and realize that as your children move into, you know, adolescence, they are going to be becoming they're becoming
individuals, yeah, they start expressing different opinions, you have to be a little bit more open minded, you need to open, give them some space for those opinions, and not be too judgmental, right? If once your team starts feeling that, you know, you're very judgmental, they tend to shut down. And that's when that's when we start getting into that disconnect. Yeah. So did I like how you mentioned in the slides, and someone said this on Instagram as well, raising ourselves love that. And it's so true, because it's we have to teach ourselves not to judge them so quickly, maybe because we were judged that way as a child. So we just think, no, this is wrong, can't do it. But you have to, you
know, change ourselves to change the way that we react to where there's like, so they can actually speak to us openly. We also need to explain to the children when they're going through, especially as teens, when they're going through these changes and experiencing these emotions, for example, okay, so all of a sudden, boys, you know, or and girls, their hormones are changing, they're going to feel attracted to the opposite sex. That's the reality. But we have to learn to have these conversations, and chill. So they can differentiate between having the emotion isn't haram, because growing up was like, oh, that's haram, you shouldn't feel that way. Yeah, these are raw natural
foods that we're going to have. But the way you respond to an actor there, that's, that's what's going to, you know, be wrong or right. So it's okay to feel like that. But the way you respond to that, so we need to differentiate the emotions to the actual individual, or the actions that we feel is incorrect to the actual individual. And most of the time, we say, oh, rain, that was so naughty, because you did that. You know what I mean? It's such an easy thing to say. That was that was really known as Yeah, so it's really important that we separate that. Yeah. And then the children will understand Oh, yes. Because I know, we could go to our mom, and we'd go like, you know, and we
weren't embarrassed to say, or somebody in high school said, you know, do you want to try a cigarette? My mom wouldn't shut up and go, that's, you know, so bad. That's, you know, had arm she would openly discuss, okay, this is what it looks like. Yeah. Do you want to, you know, because your mom was born and raised here she had?
Yeah. Whereas for a lot of the cultural parents that came back from back home, yeah, this is like a whole different society to them. They're not used to being around non Muslims are not used to this, you know, it's such a change it is. So it was, it's easy for us to kind of look back and say, Well, they did this wrong, and they did that wrong, that is wrong. To think, you know, we can make Be the change for our kids. That's awesome. Understand that. It was just a different world. Like, and they tried to do their best to them. Probably like, Okay, we just have to protect our kids, because it's so different to because that's all they knew, was just like environment. That's such a massive
change. And it definitely, and they don't necessarily understand the landscape, they do not understand the full extent, like a lot of them wouldn't even understand what's going on on social media. Yeah, no clue. They don't even know that kids are on social media. You know what I mean? So it's even hard for them. Like it's, in a way it might be wrong for us to just expect them to like it's such a hard process for them. They were raised so different. Yeah. So what the world is now? Yeah.
Um, okay, let's go into this a little deeper, all the things that you mentioned that are creating that disconnection. So you know, the social media, the environment, the people, all of that, were often at tug of war between, you know, giving your children freedom and creating this bond of trust with them. And then also controlling them and putting restrictions in place to protect them from the fitna that's out there. I feel like there's this constant battle between give them freedom, trust them, but don't control them, because you want to protect them. How do you find that sweet spot? Like how do you strike that right balance where you're giving them some freedom and you're showing
them Yes, I trust you. But at the same time, you're still protecting them enough not just letting them loose, but putting enough restrictions on them so they don't get to expose to this all the fitna. that's out there
to be with you.
You want to go first you already Yeah, I already
another on that point as well. You can answer at the same time you
can restricting them restricting a child too much create a rebellious child, can it be that?
Definitely yeah. Okay. All right. Let's go on and talk about my personal experience. So everyone, these things have to start from a very young age, if you're going to all of a sudden impose restrictions and also impose restrictions that you're not implementing and practicing yourself, your child is going to be in conflict number one, okay? So these are just start from childhood. Yes, you have to have a level of control, okay? Because they're too young to comprehend a lot of these things. But if you're giving that level of control from a young age, okay, and also justifying it, okay, because you also need to understand when they reached the teenagers when they want to explore
adulthood, as a parents, it's really challenging to befriend them, but you have to befriend them. But if you're giving them the solid foundation, right, in Charlotte,
And with lots of hours when they get to those years they will understand and having that love of Allah and understanding what pleases and displeases Him, that will automatically go on No, this is not, you know, the correct or this is not the right thing. Yeah, okay. But what I find is parents, they've just there's a lot of leverage and a lot of leeway for really young kids. With no discipline, no bedtime routine, no, you it's really important to have discipline, it's really important to have routine in case especially when a child hits the age of six, seven, okay, even before that, when they start going to child care, or whatever it is getting up for Fudger and these
sort of things, but to have discipline and routine in place is really important. And to implement these levels of, you know, control, there's freedom has to be given at a certain depending on what it is, at a certain age and a certain time, because that the understanding of that comes with wisdom and insight, okay. And there's a certain age that they can comprehend it, and you will know your child for some kids, they're very, very wise and switched on at the age of 12. It's like speaking to like, a 25 year old, right? And we've seen that, and you'll see some kids that you know, 15 that I've got no idea. So you know, that level, and mother's intuition is the best she died. Nobody knows
the child better than the mother. Yeah. Okay. That's, that's another really important factor. So back on that with that level of, you know, control and freedom, you've got to start with a foundational year. So they understand and different between right and wrong, okay? As they grow older, if they are going to do something that is not
something that you, you know, give permission to, for example, or slightly out of the fold of, you know, Islam, or you think it's out of the fold of Islam, you also need to understand that we can't always protect our children, we can't keep them in a bubble, okay? Every single human is going to go through a strange moment in their life, okay. But they'll come, they'll explore when they will come back to what their foundational years are, which is zero to seven, and Christian missionary, Christian missionaries in New Zealand, say this give a child a child from zero to seven, because 90, I think 93% of their motor neurons have developed by the time the age of three. But what we do with
kids this day and age are they're all in front of gadgets, right?
Please, everyone out there, if you've got a child that's under three, do not put them in front of gadgets. So why kids have actually grown up without technology? Yeah, my son's 22, my son's 15, that exposed my PlayStation. Anything that didn't have a physical, Islamic or spiritual benefit was not allowed them to the household. Rather, they were engaged in doing things around the house with me, right? So when they want that sense of freedom, what is it that they want, right? They want to actually go out and explore and have these experiences. And if you're also taking away experiences from them, and desensitizing them, giving them home all the time, putting them on gadgets, right?
They're going to be rebellious and go No, I've never had a chance to do this. And even if you you know, you think that you trust them, they're gonna go behind your back, they're going to do it right. So we need to start providing these experiences with our children going out go hiking, go camping, do you know do so they realize, Oh, we've been exposed to the world we haven't been huddled up where we only on the weekends, we like to go with our cousins, we never get to go to the city. There's all these multiple factors, right? But yes, zero to seven is a must the the foundational years Yeah, for women that you know, I know, when difficult situation some of us have have to work,
but prioritize if you can't, you know, work three days, and you have to work five days, the time that you spend with your child, leave your vacuuming, leave your washing, let your dishes pile up and play spend quality time with your child. And then on top of the priority of yours, you know, and when the kids also hit the 10 years for the families that don't you know, couples that are together. My biggest advice out there is that when they hit the teen years, the most important thing to a teenager, okay, is to see that their mother was respected, was respected and loved by their father. Wow, studies have proven this Wow, as a teenager that you they don't care. Do they have the latest
gadgets do they have, you know, all of these things deep down they see this is this is the first thing that they look at, right? And having that goes back to the whole trust, okay, having that trust having that communication, then you know that you can create barriers, healthy barriers, say, Look, I'm allowing you to do this. You can go with your friends, but I will drop you don't fully close them as a teen I will drop you. Who are they and I will pick you up at this time or I'll be at the shops while you guys are sitting in the cafe or whatever it is. Right. You know that between you and your child? To what level? What what extent? Yeah, yeah. Very well explained. Yeah. Do you want
to show that? Yeah. So
the way the approach that we, my husband and I basically took with our kids, because, of course, the end goal was inshallah to try to raise them as safely as possible. You know, in the day and age we're in supreme
much what I tried to do was sort of like replicate. You could call it like a greenhouse. I looked at it like, Okay, our situation today is like trying to raise, let's call them date palms, because that's the what resembles a Muslim the most right, the date palm, okay, you've taken a deep pan out of the Hijaz, you know,
and you're trying to raise it in a place where it's not the normal environment. Okay, yeah. So what how can we be successful in raising this, these deck pumps, you know, inshallah healthily, right? Try to create a type of greenhouse for them, you know, replicate the environment. So what does that mean? It means try to make your home and aesthetic home as much as possible so that your children, when they walk in that door, they feel the difference, you know, we want them to have to distinguish between a life of, of the darkness that comes with Jania, and not having Islam and the light of heavy Islam, and what does it mean to have Islam you know, and having those positive and positive
connections are so important, by the way, you know, we, especially when the children are young, we want them to have very positive connections with everything to do with Islam. So like, when it's fun, when it's Ramadan, you know, if they're going to be waking up with the family too fast, you know, you can make it like, for example, sometimes we still put like little candles on the table to make it exciting. You know, we have the heater that was just a little fierce, it's a little family things that you do that bring those positive connections, you know, I won't even begin to go into about the Quran, you know, what I mean? You know, the Quran routine before going to bed, for
example, you know, hugging them, associating the mother's hug with, you know, reciting H Corsi, for example, you know, I'm trying to say, and so having those warm and positive emotions that are associated with Islam and everything to do with Islam, you don't try to say so. That's, that's a huge, beautiful, like, making it a beautiful experience everything, you know, and showing how the beauty of Islam, you know, because I think a lot of people can understand that.
Parents did their best in the past, but a lot of them raised their children with it was all about how long, you know, to say how policing and I think, because I used to have lots of restrictions, lots of Yeah, can't do. Yeah. And in the past, you see, I used to give a lot of I used to teach a lot of girls, you know, for scripture, and I've even even now, like, one of my passions is actually teaching the young, the young girls, which I'm talking about, like 17 years and over and over, like the young young adults. So understand, you know, why a lot of them feel, you know, disconnected to their deen or even to their parents, because it's just always been about, it's, they've never really
had the experience of the positive, you know, the positive emotions associated with Islam and everything from a young age, you know, can you speak you understand, like, a child comes into the world, full of or, you know, what I'm trying to say and full of looking looking for the beauty. And then sometimes because, you know, we don't mean it, but we often can crush that, you know, and it even comes with our, the way we teach them to you, you know, so if you bring it in a beautiful way, you know, what I'm trying to say? The kid just loves Islam, how will they ever leave Islam when, you know, when they've always had that, you know, that beautiful Quran played in their house, and, you
know, and they've got the positive emotions associated? And of course, then we can even go into, obviously, you know, a fairly healthy environment in the home as far as the relationships as well, because we, you know, unfortunately, when we think about bringing up our kids, Islamically, we're just thinking a lot of people just thinking about, well, we've gotta establish these prayers, and we're establishing the first year, but what about the Senate principles? What about, you know, you know, what about the us luck? Well, you know, I mean, because that's, that's a big one, if kids grow up feeling like, Well, we were taught, and fasting. Yeah, look at the way we were treated by our
parents and look at the, you know, unfortunately, let's be honest, the trauma that's there, you know, sometimes there's, you know, spiritual abuse to us by parents, sometimes. Stuff like that can really, you know, this is what also pushes kids away, you know, from parents and from and from his dad to his church, emphasis on the religious good deeds, you know, are you wearing hijab? Are you fasting? Are you praying, the ethical aspect that, you know, certain dads or moms that come home, that don't even know how to speak to them? The mothers properly? You know, what I mean, or, and the boys are being raised, you know, as teenagers being really arrogant to their sisters in the house,
or vice versa. Right. So the ethical aspect they're missing? It's definitely miss. Yeah, yeah, that's so true. That actually leads me to my next question, which you've kind of covered a bit. I think you've covered a lot of that. And it was, you know, as parents, we try and control the environment that our children are in as much as we can, like you said, you know, make sure that the environment at home is very Islamic. It's very warm and very comforting and, you know, where they see the beauty of Islam, but it's inevitable that our children are still going to be exposed to a very and Islamic environment at some update in their life. You know, we can choose the Islamic
school and we can choose all these. They're still going to be they're still gonna have to face yes, they're very undecylenic world. You
I was saying like the you are the average of the five people you spend most of the time with. So yes, it's very important that, you know, the five people that they spend the most time with are that, you know, example for them. Yeah. But when they are exposed to the non Muslim world, how do we still maintain and ensure an Islamic upbringing in this very anemic world that they're living in? And how do they then know how to face that world when they are exposed to it? And I go first, yes.
So no, so why don't I just want to say so getting back to my greenhouse thing, so that doesn't last forever? Okay. Because some people think, oh, no, you can't grow up in cotton wool. I know. But it's just for the early years, you see, you've made a strong little Muslim. Okay. They've developed their identity as a Muslim. You know what I mean? And then, okay, so I put my kids into I put my kids into Islamic school. Yeah. And some excuse not perfect. Yeah. Okay. And slow. They did they got exposed to different things. Yeah. In Islamic school. Yeah. So it's still a protected mark. But there's plenty of stuff that goes on and go into that kind of question. And that was okay. Because we had to
deal with things. And I think, kids, as you said, kids are gonna learn to deal with things, you know, we've got to prepare them for life. Yeah. So are living in this? Yes. And so it sounds cool. Obviously, they're not perfect. And they will get prepared because they are going to hear different things going on. But you know, everything has its time. And so as they grow, you know, you go with it, you know, you slowly open them up, you can feel because you've raised them, those first five years in particular, the first five years are so crucial. Yeah. If in Charlotte, in the lab with the help of Allah, you've done your work, then, you know what I'm trying to say you've got that
relationship, that constant relationship. This foundation, yeah. And you keeping the relationship going, that communication, and you're moving along with them as they go. So you can slowly feel how they are developing their own self identity, their own confidence in their faith, you know what I mean? So you don't need to keep following up on them anymore. Because I'm telling you right now, I saw it in within Islamic schools. I saw it like, I knew the families who had really, you know, conscientiously raised their kids Islamically. Right. They would always gravitate to the same type of kids. Yeah, they would they would graduate. They just, I've noticed that with my own kids. Yeah.
So they do they tend they will gravitate
away. Yeah. Because the other kids find them like, I don't know, maybe they I don't know, their own opinion on them, you know, yeah. But that's what happened. And they just They just naturally would gravitate to. And again, I think it's got to do with healthy parenting, too. I think that the, you know, when there's that healthy sort of parenting there, the kids have got the confidence, they tend to also gravitate to people who've got that similar type of stable background as well.
Yes, so that's what happened then, like, you know, as they got older, like, obviously went to university, my kids are in the workforce. Now. Of course, it was challenging at first, like, if you talk to them, it was challenging when when they first went into the workforce. How did you feel as a mother, keeping them like, you know, you had them in Islamic school their whole life? And then they go into uni, where it's like, full non Muslim environment? Was that a scary thing for you, as a parent, everything was scary. Like, I'm gonna say to you, like, when I was first sending my child to school, the first time I remember how scared I felt, I thought, Oh, my God, how's it gonna be
corrupted? And know, if I speak to other people who are further ahead in the journey? Yeah. And it comforted me and I realized, no, it can be done. Right. Same thing with university and now universities have changed so much. I remember when I was first to university years ago as a new revert. I mean, we didn't have the facilities that are there today, like there's MSA is now there's activities, you know, so it's very different. And so all my kids have gone to uni, the only one who hasn't gone to uni is my youngest son, who's still he's still in year 11. All my kids went to uni, they safely gone through uni. So women don't get corrupted by going to uni. I just want to point out
that my daughter was going to university with a heart monitor when he goes to university with Claremont and they're very hamdullah proud of their Islamic identity, you don't have to compromise your identity or your value just because you're going to university. Yeah, so like, you mentioned having the MSA is there and that can be a very active part of uni life. And a very, it really brings the all the students together who are like minded. Today logging. Yeah, it creates that community for them as well, like that muscle. Yeah. So it all depends, as I said, if you've done that, if you Inshallah, you know, with the help of Allah, of course, everything's alive. If you've done that
groundwork, then you will be able to do that. And then they will confidently be able to navigate their way through, you know what I mean, and then they go to work. And that has been, that was probably the biggest challenge for a lot of them going into the workforce, you know, and having to do like, they're not used to that like, because now they're not, they're not with a lot of Muslims anymore, you know, going to the workforce, was it they felt more of a challenge or you as a parent felt no no, I was challenged not at all because by then I've let go see, so you're slowly what you're doing is it's more sort of like as I said, greenhouse in the beginning, but then you slowly
like just like what you would do with a plant. Yeah. What do you do you go you'd then once it's got so strong in the greenhouse, what do you do? You go in your transplant, you put it in the garden, it starts to thrive on its own, it takes care of it.
The same thing we should do with our kids, you know, as you get them to start to be exposed gradually and get used to it, and know that they found it very challenging. At first, it was challenging, like my daughter, you know, she was working in, for example, public schools, and she was bringing the pub. So obviously, that was difficult, you know, because there wasn't necessarily always Muslims around her and stuff like that. And she did face Sama, Sama phobia, you know, in, and my son works with all like, he works in the city, you know, with the government in a government government's pretty good because, you know, they do protect your rights. Yeah, no one can be, you
know, there's, you know, there's laws against, you know, discriminatory, kind of, you know, but it just was a bit of a challenge in the beginning, you know, and also like, because, you know, as a Muslim, you know, you've got your five prayers, you want to establish your prayers, you need to ask to go to jamaa you, there's, there's a lot of different.
There's a lot of different things that, you know, you need to sort of be able to make sure you can still maintain, yeah, yeah, it was a challenge, but Hamdulillah, they, they made it, they can overcome it, you know, and again, that goes back to us as well. I think it's very important for us to be leaders to our children, you know, if we need to be confident in our Islam, you know, and you know, if we're talking about how to raise kids, you need to love your Islam first, then you showed that we're going to your children, if you need to be proud of your religion, proud of your identity. And surely when you do that, but in the lock up, you're out somewhere as a family, that you don't
have a problem with calling Get down and praying as a as a family and Jamel wherever you are. Yeah, you know what I mean? It get the kids used to that, then replicate. That's right. But it's confidence in it. Because some kids grow up go to university, unfortunately. And they they're too embarrassed to pray or, you know, in front their friends, or, you know what I mean? Yeah. Did you want to add anything to that? Yeah, it was all about
in the writing that Islamic environment for them, and then how do you then let them out into the world, I'm just going to add a few points to that we, community that we live in, we're just finding a lot of parents saying, oh, you know, sister, or brother, I need someone to, you know, take my son, to start going to the masjid to pray, or my daughter to not, you know, wear makeup or whatever it is. And the first thing I questioned parents is that, do you do that yourself? Okay. This is another problem that we have. So what your practices are, the way you're you live your life day in and day out, yeah, your children are going to emulate that. And you need to instill the love just as Shahar
was saying, from a very young age. And with our own children, I know my husband, you know, he'd every morning when he'd read for an even if the kids were asleep, you take them out of the car, you put them in his lap, and he would be reciting as in doing his core area citation rocking and they would be in his lap because that itself is planting seeds in the subconscious mind. And to make them I used to wake them up, you know, at the age of four, get them up at for your time, make it a habit, knock all the little let them sleep in. But make it exactly what would make it exciting. They'd get up we'd pray, you know, do Quran, I put them in the pram go for a walk early in the morning to keep
them awake, you know, and I'd go get a hot chocolate from you know, Michelle's patisserie, because
hot chocolate. Indirectly, it was keeping them awake at that Fajr time. Yeah. And so from the age of five, they've mashallah gone to, you know, prayed for five, even though they don't know their prayers, but praying with the parents five times a day, we're in such a hurry, we got I'm gonna pray in, you know, we'll call the kids later. No, it's a lot of extra work. It's a lot of effort. But you know what? Better they cry now than you cry later. That's what I say, right? And you've just got to really make that sacrifice for those foundational years. And Inshallah, like, as I was saying that, if you've made that sacrifice, knowing that they have manna from Allah subhanaw, taala, right? How
do you want to return? We don't even have control over our own lives. So how are we going to return our children? To Allah? In what condition? Are we going to beautify them? Right? Or are we going to make them go, you know, off track, right at the end of the day, and look for all the parents that are still struggling, we all go through our struggles, that Allah knows our intention. Allah knows our efforts, and know highly, he still ended it with his children, but he still had children that went astray. And he was a prophet, right? But we know that we've put our heart and soul in there. And if it's meant to be because Allah says, if you you can test you through your health through your
is through your children. And that is a test for you also. Yeah, right. But the foundational years are fundamental. And the children will be able to go through those challenges and making those decisions in their life. Is this right? Is there is this strong, because it's inbuilt within them? Yeah, I want to go back to something that we had touched on before and I said we'll go into a bit more detail later. And that was, Okay, so we've just discussed how you can, how you got to keep that Islamic environment at home, but then how you get the children to differentiate themselves from when they go out into the non Muslim world. What about other Islamic environments, for instance, the
Islamic school or even
The massages when they're exposed to other Muslims who may or may not be as practicing, or Muslims who will then do, like, we think we think this is a safe Islamic environment, it could be at the masjid, it could be at the school. And the person, the Muslim that they're exposed to is doing all the things that we tell the child not to do. That could be foul mouthed. And not just even kids. But even parents, because I've seen this I've seen parents say the F word in a masjid to their child in front of other kids like, or they're smoking right outside the masjid, right in between taraweeh prayers, or they're dressed inappropriately, or they're just talking inappropriate behaving
inappropriately. So even in these Islamic environments that we teach the kids, you know, we're trying to keep keep them within these Islamic environments. But there's a lot of that happening within our own. Yeah. How do we get the children to differentiate themselves? Even from those who are fellow Muslims? Yeah, very good point. Did you want to prefer sorry?
she's already said.
I think I think the most important thing here, probably she's gonna say anyway,
is the modeling, the modeling, they've already had the modeling in the home. So they already know, you know, they've already got that idea, you know, of you, you know, I'm trying to say, and, you know, you've got that Inshallah, ideally, we've got this positive relationship between us and the kids. Yeah. And so they know, and I can say, you know, you've created that environment in your home, you're not trying to say, so they come home, and they know that this is Marshall, I'm very blessed to be in his home. Yeah, you know what I mean, not everybody has that. And they can differentiate when they go outside, they see, well, okay, well, you know, and handjob we don't have that in our
home, you're trying to say like, yeah, you know, it's, it's normal. You know, that's, that's life, you know, you tried to say, you're gonna see all kinds of things, if you still have to keep like, let them be exposed.
Because you can't just Yeah, it's also really important with our children to share stories with them. It's so important to share Islamic stories, or role models, and of how people go through a process that life in itself is a process, okay? Parenting in itself is a process life in itself is a process and how we go through these changes, who will let him know what that was before he came to Islam and how he was strength to Islam. The story of Noah highlights Islam with his children, a story of you know, Prophet Yusuf and his siblings when their sibling right when they see kids at school, but mom, you know, the sister and the brother or when there's, you know, foul language, you
know, I always said to the kids, you know, make to offer the make to offer ourselves first, and make to offer them because the tongue is a reflection of their heart. So yeah, Allah rectify their heart. And we don't know what it is that the insurance or what they do, is just judging them straight away, you know, after them, yeah, instead of going, Oh, no, don't play with that kid or steer away from that chart, look, they'll naturally not gravitate towards that show. Because that's not what they've been raised with in terms of environment, if that makes sense. But it's really important for them to share these role models that we have from our Islamic history and how a lot can transform, and he
can change and I'm always reminding the kids that even though you feel like that, you know, you're you've got really good character and that Allah protect you. We don't know when Allah subhanaw taala is going to take that away from you. We don't know when he's going to you could become like, Allah protect him become like them, right? So we're not superior. And I put this in one of my posts today that the Prophet sallallahu, gladness of who he met, which is why, which is why his Tao was so effective, that he always believed that the other person had a trait, or a characteristic that was better than him. So we could have that, that other child that's in front of my child, for example,
within your she or he actually interacted with me when everybody else, you know, left me for example, that might be their changing point. That might be their turning point, right. But it's important that we share those stories and we explained that in no way are we superior, but we make dua for them, and that everybody has a different level of Eman. Yeah, that's another thing to explain to children and one I'd like to just add something really fundamental Yashoda with this and that is you really need to be with the community. You really don't try and do on your own like you are you are a very important part of it. Yes, parents are very important. However, your kids need
the community as well. Now we all know how the community is you know, there are trials we go through in the community however, ultimately, is far better for you to be with the community and have the support of your community around you mentally go on your own and isolate yourself. Yeah, because you do have supportive networks like so we were very blessed to kind of grow up in right in the hub of you could say you know the sonic environment you know what I mean? My kids you know, we take in there are so many good practicing people around like very sincere mashallah like yeah, very amazing teachers like yes, you do get the look that some of them not really into, like they're not, you
know, the same, but there are others who are, you know, they genuinely love Islam. You don't try and stay and then, you know, just being in that hog.
humidity around you like you've got the dentist you've got you know, Marcia, we are very blessed like pretty much if you're living in like the Kimber Grenache area, you know what I mean? It's almost it's like, it's almost it's some Muslim countries that you know, it probably even even more ideal. Yeah, a lot of Muslim countries because the people who live in these areas tend to really value their religion. Yeah. Whereas if you go to a Muslim country, we're not going to get into that probably after, but that's not the case. Yeah, you know, I'm trying to say like, they just take it, they just take it for granted. But, you know, generally speaking in Australia, especially in these
these areas, the ones that stick around in these areas, but they're not the best areas. Yeah, you're not I mean, we haven't got the beach front views or anything. So you know, there's a bit of a sacrifice in the in these areas, but the people here, generally speaking, they do value their religion. So really got that community and you go outside of Santa Monica. Oh, when it comes to them, you know, and that, like, everyone, I think we've mentioned it before the cameras are rolling how everyone who kind of knows each other. So it's you've got that that kind of warmth, when he's going shopping, you see someone or something like, Oh, my kids having that connection, there is so
important. Yeah, it actually helped me a little bit with my raising my kids to I just want to quickly because people knew my family. So well, we were so you know, in the community. Yeah. That like sometimes people would say, Oh, I saw your daughter going into big W or, you know, and they tell me like, and they come home from school and say, did you go to big W today? And then they go, how did you know and I go, Well, I've done 100. And I've got eyes everywhere.
Really that did that did I'm not joking. That's actually supported me that really supported me in my I can tell you that really supported me and my tarbiyah it wasn't just me and my husband, I felt I had my community around me. And there was a sort of protection, there was a type of protection there. Because people knew my family. They knew my kids. And I just felt like the people looking out for my kids as well. And I feel like that goes back to what you mentioned earlier about the children having that connection with their grandparents as well. I think just keeping the family around, like where I live, my brother in law's and my mother in law, we all live on one big plot of land. So the
children are being raised literally with it's a village you know, they're, they're growing up with their cousins and with their Yeah, 100 it's such a blessing. But what I find is like, each child kind of keeps an eye on each other. Like, you know, they're cousins. They're all really young at the moment, but I love how they they keep an eye on each other and making sure like everyone is doing the right thing. It's excellent. I think it's such a good thing like to have that. And it is especially at the age because I know the ages of your children. Yeah, when the children are really young, when you've got like full, almost full control of them, which we do. Yeah, it's also really
important that our children that we choose, how do I explain that I always selected intentionally selected while they were young, the group of mothers in terms of the children that are the group of mothers, that their temperaments their characteristics, because the environment that's but because what makes us up is our family, which we can't change and it's our environment. So when they're around those type of mothers that have got this karma, temperaments, they're more nurturing, more empathetic, you know, when they're growing up, especially from the zero to seven years, and your children are spending time with people like that, they are going to develop those same
characteristics. So be careful of the ram of the other mothers that your children are actually interacting with from the age of zero to seven. Yeah, the teachers. It's really, really important. You look at the scholars that you've ever Hanifa Imam Shafi, they were very particular their mothers were very particular in terms of the character. It wasn't about that person just having knowledge, but the character of that person that they were going to seek knowledge from, because that impacts your child. Yeah, yeah. Wow, that's so true. It just takes me back to my dad's just brought up a memory of mine, like when I was a child, and we had this one called and teacher, but the way we had
too difficult and teachers growing up, and that one I had when I was younger, he was so aggressive in his teaching, like, and it really made me dread the Taanach. Every time we're going to class I was like, God, no, I don't want it. Like, I used to be scared of him. But he was a very skillful, very forceful kind. And then later, we changed him, then we had one who was like, just so much fun to learn from that I look forward to the Quran says, yeah, just brought me back to that.
Okay, I want to change, we're going to veer off the topic a little bit, because so far, we've talked a lot about the struggles we as parents face it, we are raising our kids in this non Muslim world. What about the children? What are the mental health impacts on our kids being raised in this really an Islamic world with all these Islamic
upbringing that were trying to raise them with, like, you know, see, I think for us in our generation was a little bit different. Because, you know, my parents came from a different world. And so they were very strict on us. But now these kids are born and raised here. Actually, you were born raised here too. But these kids that were born and raised here and we're trying to protect them from all the fitna that's out there. How does that impact them like what's what are their struggles and doesn't have any mental health implications on them? He wants to get first
Okay, let's rewind by
Again, a lot of our teenagers, as I've mentioned before, are feeling disconnected, right? When you feel disconnected, when you don't feel like you have a sense of belonging, when disconnected from your parents and your parents, whether it's from society, any form of especially from your parents, when there's that level of disconnection, right? When there's that level of that you don't have any control, even over your communication with your parents, okay? Because what happens is what, it causes anxiety, right? And they've got they're so anxious, because when they're going to school, it's a systematic process that they feel like they're not fitting in and they can't talk to the
teachers, that's another level of anxiety, and then mental health issues. When they go back home, I can't I can't speak to my parents, I can't communicate because there's this fear. And obviously, that I have control over how can I communicate with my parents? And I don't want to do chemistry and biology, for example, right? I'm just giving an example. This is good. And I think to myself, are you really that skin tutorial? They are. So the backlash that they're going to get right. So already anticipating the current state of
your history like Yeah, exactly. So that's why having this sense of safe haven, which is your home, right? It's it's really, really important that we have this communication with our children. So we build this level of trust. So we know when they as I mentioned earlier, when they have these bigger issues, okay, that they can turn to us if we're not going to listen, like I said to the little things when they're little, when they're big, they're not going to share those big things. And when they internalizing that, that's going to create so many problems. I mean, even Ibraheem Alehissalaam he was known as a child to ask 1000s of questions. What do we do is we parents are so busy, we brush
those questions off or away? I don't have time for that, right? So it's important that we respond to all the questions that children ask us, we might think it's something silly or naive, or whatever it is stupid. Or if we're busy, we'll say, look, I promise, I'm going to answer it later. Okay, so we follow through with that from their childhood. So when they do reach these Teenies, that they're comfortable to come come up and go, You know what, Mom? I don't want to do I give my daughter's example I don't want to do she got into bachelor in business. I don't want to do Bachelor of Business. And I said, that's fine. What do you want to do? She wants to do a bachelor of Islamic
Studies. I said, if that makes you happy do that.
Yeah, she blitzed it, she excelled at it.
The fact that she had the courage to carb RS came through that allowing them to have that confidence. Yeah. And the other thing was also because of the social media, the digital era that we live in the influence that children have.
I'm not going to say it was easy for me, it was really a huge struggle. So I did not start reading storybooks. When I say story books, story books, like you know, the prince, the princess, Cinderella, Snow White, all of these, you know, books, you know, baby sitters club that the kids get them, like, I did not start reading them to my daughter until she was 10. Okay, and never had those type of story books that weren't reality, like a reality check to him because we actually plant those seeds. In their subconscious mind you do. And they actually think that this is ideal, and this is reality. And those stories are so I flawed in so many ways. And I want to praise them of how how
beautiful Allah had made them. Yeah. And so she didn't feel like the need that she had to go through wearing makeup and heels and lashes and all the
mother to do you know what, and my boys didn't have to feel like that either. And my mom would love to get your kids dressed up like DAGs and get them off, they're actually happy with themselves, they're confident with themselves. So if we can go through that process, raising our kids like that, rather than going oh, don't go into the sun. I know in practice on your domain, so we're gonna get started you're gonna get
polluting your child's mind. Yeah, as you know, I was pulled out of he beautiful, you're so perfect, and the amount of unconditional love that you give that I should go out into the world and I think you know what, I'm, I'm amazing. Yes, the, you know, so to send them out into the world with at least that level of confidence. Yes, they're gonna go through those challenges. And we need to ride that at the time when they tackled at the time but it starts from those foundational years. Yeah, look, I think what I wanted to add here is I believe he was saying I just want to share with everyone because I've gone through like I suppose also put out there that my kids were not those
just don't think that my kids were the type that just oh yes, everything I said they just listened to and jelly. Yeah, no, no, no, no. There was a lot of like, it's been it's, you know, it's been a roller coaster ride. record has been a roller coaster ride, okay. Please, I want to be real. But I want to say this that.
I have a little saying I want to share with everyone and it just basically is always believe in your child. Yes. Always believe in your child. Please. I just want to say that because I have had incidents incidences through the court
Most of my, you know, raising my children were, you know, teachers would put my kids down teachers would, you know, criticize them, there's this thing that, you know, they do this and I'd like it like it was hoping that pretty much. And I said, I never lost hope in my truck, my children, you have to believe in your children, people, people won't believe in your children, you know, they'll put your children down, your child can't do it, your child's not capable, your child's got this behavioral issue you're not I mean, so they keep on criticizing your child making you feel like there's something wrong with your child something wrong with you know, you have to always believe in
your child and like, there will be times when your kid's gonna disappoint you, but you still have to love them for who they are. And you have to tell them that, you know, you say, look, look, I'm really upset that you did that. However, I want you to know that I still love you know, despite that, you know, I think that is so important. Those messages are so important. Like, that's what gives the kids security. You know, I mean, and that's what's lacking, people don't feel secure. I think this is the this is the biggest issue that I reckon will be the next, you know, in the next generation. This is going to be like we already see mental health has become a huge issue now
massive What is the reason? People are not feeling emotionally secure? Yeah, where does that emotional security come from? Primarily, it comes from the parents don't try to say so. If they haven't got that nurturing, then they've, they're now they're facing this world that is like social media and all these negative forces, and just total open society and so much, you know, like, there's just so much bottom here, there's so much facade, you know, and then facing all of that alone. Yeah, that's a fantastic point, that system, whatever. And another thing added to that, is that, well, we don't have that level of recognition. So we want to raise them to be these wonderful
people. But we're not telling them that they're wonderful, regardless of what they'd
like you told them to be ego, like no. Ego is that no, of course, as we see a lot of entitled children. And so what happens is through that process, you know, we listen to the teacher like you see them, so I bet you didn't get this mark, or your thing wasn't right, because you didn't do your homework, for example. And your child may be struggling with something or your child, for example, I've seen parents, you know, I'm talking about eight year olds, 10 year olds, and they go, Mom, I'm full and mom goes, No, you're going to finish that plate of food, right? We're forcing our maternal so called, you know, cheer on them hearing that what you're, what happens is when we're constantly
doing that, to that level of control, and when the child knows, okay, I'm feeling cold now, or I'm feeling hot. Now. Can I take off my jumping? Or no, no, it because we're feeling cold. The child's feeling cold, right? Do you know how detrimental that is? Oh, wow. So what happens is we actually take the the ability, their their intuition away from them. So when they lose that intuition, when they're going through those teenage years, yes, they're going through those changes in hormones, body puberty, right? Because they've lost that intuition. Because of the level of suppression and control. They struggle. One of the factors that will lead to this mental health issue is that
they've lost that intuition. So they can't they the gut feeling or the instinct is not telling them. Is this really that other guy? Can you want me to you live it up? Okay, I'll do anything, their instincts and using the intuition, because we have taken it away from that I asked you earlier about how much do you control and how much freedom do you give? Yeah, and I guess that's one of the we never really touched on the fact that if you do control them too much, do they end up becoming rebellious? Is that something that we've seen a lot in our community? Yeah, they they they do become rebellious, or depending on what aspect of the growth that we're controlling, okay. Look, there's
been studies done where they put 1000 flowers in a glass jar, for a certain period of time was triggered. And they left it for, I don't know how long for a year or whatever it was. So many months, they opened up the lead, right. And they remained there, none of the fleas flew out. Right? Because they were suppressed. It was systematic altogether. They didn't know how to get up and explore. And this is what we are doing to our children. Yeah. Right. So we need to move away from that. So when the lid, every now and then it is open, they actually do so I'm talking about from our schools ourselves. Yeah, we set up activities, we have like reverse garbage, maybe calm. And we do
have just everyday resources out there, right? Because our kids are so desensitized, and we do open ended activities. So our kids will sit there and they'll look at, for example, this table, they'll look at this and they'll go,
I'm bored. They wouldn't even know how to turn these glasses upside down and stack them or to be creative and do something with what's here. Or to open the lid because the parents are always telling them that don't touch don't open the lid. The kids that are creative, they will actually open the diviner Ah, there's there's data Yeah, let's do something with the data. I'm just giving you a hypothetical. Something's in front of me. Yeah. So we're to that level of control where our kids are losing that creativity. This is really one of my friends said to me that's
on camera. No.
I just want to buy now because I just give the kids screen time because that way my house stays clean. All but that's such a shame because like, you know, just like, when when the child's happy, I'm happy, but I don't see it as when when, like, sometimes it has been that there are a lot of families over control. And what happens is, they don't learn to sort of slot taking off the control and allowing the child to become more and more independent. So they can, you know, move into adult life like that I'm aware of a lot of cases where, you know, you've got adult children having their personal things, you know, controlled, you know, what I'm trying to say, and that's, that's led to a
lot of luck. Very low self esteem is a cultural thing. Do you think that in some of our kind of cultures where it's like that, because we're, you know, parents are still controlling their adult children who are married, it can be, but I do believe that it's probably more to do with your own parenting that you came from, like, you probably thought that was okay. And probably in that day and age, it might have might have worked, but I don't know. But we're just seeing a totally different age. And like, you know, when kids then compare it, especially those parents who try to be more conservative, and yet, like if their kids, for example, going to a public school, right. And my son
did go to public school for a while. So I don't know, the public school environment. I went there all my life and public school. But um, you know, if your kids are in a public school, they're going to be so much more exposed to people being allowed to do all kinds of things. And yet, you're trying to be conservative with your kid, that you're kind of it does set you up for some issues, because because they see all their friends do all this stuff. And you're you're not, you're saying no, you can't do that. You can't do that. So yeah, and you know, we know, adolescents, they are trying to test their boundaries, you know, and so how do you approach that let's say a child is in? Does it
matter? Does it depend on their age? Maybe like I say, everyone in the class has a phone, but you tell your child, no, you can't have a boat. And you might have really good reasons for saying that. But then how does that child interpret that? Did they see you as a bad parent, or I think let's see what I did with my kids. For example, this worked for quite a while they had like, they had like an iPad or an iPod. And they were allowed to have the Wi Fi at home. So that that kind of kept them busy for a while. But then they did get to a certain age, where I felt like for example, my son, like what was it interview? 10? Yeah, I wasn't going to give him originally I had just said no, when
you go interview 12 Because it's been different. Like my older kids didn't get the same things. As you know, it's Yeah, generation or generation or you know what I mean? And you just can't keep you can't keep phones. It's normal now is it's very different. Yeah. So but I just felt like he handled it. Like he had got to a point where I felt he really has, he's really showing me the maturity now. I mean, I really felt like I can, like I can see that he's going to submit values and show them how to protect him in place. Yeah. And I thought that, you know, I think he can handle it. I don't think he hasn't got it. Like, you can't call her out on it still. But he still has a phone you I'm trying
to say anyway, my older daughter, sorry, my other daughter used to be older than him. Same thing she's about I think you're 11 or something, it just, they just progressed into it. But I thought it was the right time. But it's really knowing your child. Yeah, what their criteria is for them. Yeah, I mean, so my son is 15. He's got a phone. But I've got a app on there, which is on his PC and on his phone, where I can control and he knows that. So there's that trust relationship. So by this time, no, you can't, you know, be chatting or, you know, you've got to be off games, whatever. And he knows that, if I break that trust, I want to operate on a trust relationship. But if that's
broken, I've got control over it from my phone. So right sitting right now, I can block him so he won't be able to have access to anything on his phone. Right. So he knows that I've got it installed, and it's in mutual agreement that he was allowed to have it. As long as I had that on my phone, just in case I'm not because he's homeschooled. And I'm all out in the big, it's gotta be all laid out. You've got to have rules in place, and you have to follow through with them. Because if you don't, and I know, my kids, when they're young, I'd go, you know, when they'd ask about, you know, having a Wii U or something attender where, you know, and I used to, sometimes at a point, and
we all get that like that, as parents, you get frustrated I go, if your friends jump off the Harbour Bridge, would you jump off the Harbour Bridge? Right? We all said that, right? Yeah. But you know, and they gave my son would go, but why would my friends drop off the Harbour Bridge? Because, you know, boys are real logical thinkers. Right. But
yeah, and it's just explaining to your children that we have certain, you know, values in our home, that are going to be different. I'd give them examples. I go when we come into our house, we always take our shoes off. When you go to your friend's house, it's okay, but do they take their shoes off? And they go, Oh, no, they don't take their shoes off. Because in their house, they value that's not considered, you know, it's different, you know, and they need to constantly you need to bring this up with your children all the time.
So they're aware that we have these different values, and different rules and restrictions in each household. So they can comprehend it as teenagers. Yeah, one thing I tried as well with my some of my kids, it's because they wanted social media. They're lucky eight, you nine and you're thinking on social media. We shared an account for a while so we share
didn't account. So I was I was able to, I said, Okay, you want social media, you have to allow me to share the account with you because I want to make sure that you're using it responsibly. You're gonna ask that. Yeah. Okay to monitor your child's social media. Wow, I felt like it was like a training wheel. I'd like to, quote A training wheel period. So messages and they, as long as they know, they knew it. Yeah. So he knew. And that was the, you know, that was the agreement. If you have social media, we share the account. Yeah. Okay. So then I could be could know what he's talking about who's you know, who you're talking to? Because, you know, you have to be careful, like, kids
can get even, you know, preyed upon, you know, I'm trying to say, so, you know, but then he got to a certain point where you feel like, okay, he's ready to move off, you know, I'm trying to say, and the other thing is, if you're on on social media with them, yeah. Then, you know, that also helps, too. I think you should all be friends, you should all be you know, so that you can see what your what your kids are doing on there like we fit, you know, what are they saying?
That's a very quick sharing, because we went through with the kids, when they did get their phones, were all of a sudden it was too much time. So we noticed spending on the phone. So we made a collective decision that every day after Isha, including myself and my husband, that everyone's phones would go on the dining table. It wasn't like, oh, as parents for the night for the rest of the night. So me my husband would leave the phone on the title
to your discipline goals, your discipline, but we have to,
you have to do that. A lot of people are asking online, what's the name of this app? custodia qu es TODIAQUSTO dia Paxton Luisa, who guided me there. And so I've got it installed on his PC, I've got it installed on his phone, you can actually see where that you can control the content that they search on a normal web browser on YouTube. You can also look at what they've searched. And you can put time or time restrictions, saying on say, for example, if it's gaming, if it's whatever it is, you can put time restrictions for it, which is great. Yeah. And so yeah, recently, we went, you know, overseas, we were in Oman, and the other two, you know, we're texting and I go away, you're
sitting there he goes, my phone's got restrictions, because I'd forgot that restriction opened up WhatsApp for him like, Do you know what I mean? So yeah, it is brilliant. But it's got to be a two way not something done secretly. So he's aware of that, too. I think that's a really good point that you made is that make sure the child is aware of it, because then there might be a trust issue between the child and you then if they find out later that you've been, you know, they might feel like they're being spied on? Or that they're, you know, their privacy wasn't respected? Yeah, it's good. Yes, my husband has actually installed but my husband's into mobile technologies, you know, he
had installed something on everyone's computer that he could actually see their screens and like, he could see what they've been going into. Yeah. And in a way when you think of it, it's kind of developing also maraca because even though it's I can explain what, okay, so we want to we wanted to build up into children that, obviously that ALLAH SubhanA, Allah is watching us, and when we're doing things, feeling that, you know, someone's watching us, but ultimately, we want to feel that Allah is watching us, right. But you know, what, in one way, if you do this, and they know that they've been monitored, you know, they're starting to get that feeling developed. And then
hopefully, that can move into later on becoming more independent and moving into like, Allah is watching me, not just my dad's watching.
You I mean, it could help and show I'm just saying, so I'm sort of looking at like, sort of training wheel type of, you know, tear, you know, techniques that you could maybe try to use with your kids. Yeah, to sort of, because, obviously, we want to move them into independence. Yeah, we can't be when they're 2025 appointments. Like this is because what you find, unfortunately, is this existing in the community where you've got people who, they're not able to let go of their children, you know what I mean? So the kids are like, 2021 22, and they haven't they're not going to allow me to be independent, independent is to making decisions for their kids. They still don't study. Yeah,
exactly. And this is not what we want. We want to raise, you know, confident, and you know, you don't try to stay independent, independent. Muslims inshallah. Inshallah. Okay, well, we've already gone like, 22 minutes.
To ask this question, I was wondering what we were gonna go over. But I want to quickly ask this question before we have to wrap up because this is something that it's like, honestly, it's been on my mind a lot recently. So I wanted to see what you both think as well about it. And I'd love to take your insight from it, of this as well. So do you think that Western society is becoming so increasingly opposed to Islam now, like had like we mentioned earlier, the society that we were raised in is much different, like if the badness was this much now it's gone up to this much society now that our children and obviously with social media and being I think they've lost that connection
with their grandparents because it's easier for them to connect with outsiders so much more easier now like you just add, add, add, add, add new friends with so many people, why do you need your grandparents and you've got all these friends? You don't I mean, there's so much. There's so much fitna in this everything basically in the western society kind of opposes Islam.
Is it easier? Would it be easier for us as parents to shift and relocate to a more,
you know, Muslim friendly country to raise our kids is that better than trying to raise them in this society where they're just exposed to so much?
Not only like, Yes, I know this bad in both, there will be, you know, things that are wrong in both. But I feel like it's more prevalent and visible here where the things that are taboo, are still taboo in the Muslim countries where they're not in your face, and they're not encouraged. We're here, it's in your face, and it's encouraged as well. So it's a little bit more challenging to protect your children from it. You know what I mean? Who wants to answer that? Yes. Okay. You can have a
look, I actually tried that. Oh, you did? I did. I tried that. My husband, I tried that. We also felt that would be, you know, we thought that was going to be the better solution for us. He actually.
So we moved to Saudi Arabia for a while, but we thought, you know,
Saudi, the golden man to be slammed basically.
Unfortunately, yes, 100, there's a lot of, you know, obviously, you know, you've got your prayers around, and everything like that. But
one thing that really worried me when I was there was the, the, the influence of the West in that the mindset, they weren't just so in love with the West was so in love with the West, they wanted to, they wanted to imitate, you know, the Americans and everything, you know, America was just so valued, you know, what I'm trying to say? And that really worried me, I was saying to my husband, but, um, you know, I felt and also I just felt there was there was just real, I felt this apathy towards Islam. There just wasn't the, you know, the enthusiasm. Whereas what I found here in Australia, which we just take so much for granted, is that, yes, a lot of people don't have a lot of
strong knowledge here, necessarily, although that's really changing. Mashallah, yeah, but I just felt this real sincerity here, you don't really agree with more, but people really value that they really, they acknowledge that, you know, what, I really don't have as much knowledge as I should have, but then trying, they're struggling, you know, they really want it whereas, you know, what I couldn't handle was like, for example, you know, like, you meet certain people that's like, they wouldn't even want to say a Solomonic come to you. Because it's, you know, seen as something lowly to say us and I'm on a comb, or they don't wanna go to Quran school, because it's, you don't try to
say, so, I'm going back to I was gonna say, so.
That's the thing. I feel like, you might believe it's better. Yeah. But then when you go there, and you realize, you see that because I felt like, you know, bring my kids up here, I really do feel that there, we've got quite an ideal situation that kids can compare between it, you know, the, the truth impulse, you know, you don't try the life of disbelief is so stuck in their faces, it helps them to be able to distinguish Islam, as long as you're showing that they're showing that though, if you will show that it's really much easier to see, whereas in a Muslim country, it's all mixed up. Yes. And it's unfortunately, you know, you know how it is. Yeah.
About Pakistan as well. I was just about to say that, Pakistan at you, man, I'm not sorry, told the Pakistanis. Sorry, guys, it goes.
It really drops again, because again, as
well, you can't do a comparison there. And the same thing, we're all doing it. Or you've come from Canada, and you've come from America, and Australia is all about the Western countries, right? So when we're here and at the end of the day, Allah subhanaw taala will choose who he wishes to God, we've got to stay firm with it. So there whether it's here, okay. And what my kids also see, is that okay, yes, we're, you know, seeing, you know, so much fitna, but there's also fitting that in the Islamic countries with certain things, too, right. But at least they this and this is why when you go out bet country, yeah. atheist or whatever, you know, face they are, they have all of the ethical
values. Yeah, how are you loved? I?
Seriously, like when I travel overseas, if I go to another Muslim country, I won't name them. But if I go to some country, I don't wanna get trouble. But I seriously miss hearing, please. And thank you. That's what like the little simple matters. In Australia, at least people are so polite, and they have that mannerisms, where I just don't get that in the countries where, yeah, they can be so hostile. Yeah. So I'll give you a perfect
and I'll give you an example. Like I've been in cases where I've gone for events like in the city, and they're all non Muslims there. Okay. Yes, I know they're drinking. Yes, there. They've got music guy, I understand. But I'm just a small example. Obviously, we've got you know, racial slurs too, but there was a few men they're just giving you some example The lift will open. You first met him. The fact that you're just a woman. You first met him and
Waiting in line. Oh, no, you go ahead. Yeah. And last night, we were doing Iftar at a buffet cafe. And I was so happy that my kids were so my sons were standing at the back. This is grown men in front of us in mind, while these women and children standing behind them, but there was so eager to get their food and put it in. And that's exactly what I said to him. I said, I don't have this ethical values to turn around and go on ladies that one mother's got five children one month, would you guys like to come before I say can feed the children? So there's a pros and cons.
There's pros and cons. But when we're living in this country, as sister on Japan, as Dean was saying, you can see the other side of the spectrum over there, you can't see you start to think, oh, because they're Muslim, they're doing that you start to actually become like them. Yeah. Yeah, that's a scary feeling. That is pretty scary. And I also think that being in Sydney, Sydney is the largest shower scene in Australia. And like you mentioned before, having this community here is so important. And I know there's so many bad things you can say about the Sydney, Dallas, even Muslim community. But it's actually such a blessing as well. There's so many programs and so many
initiatives we can put our kids in there's there's so so much available, like just in Ramadan, the amount of different kids Ramadan programs that you can put your children in there, they've got the access that we didn't have when we were younger, there wasn't like, I remember when I was in Texas, we had just one mosque nearby where there was like a weekend program. And that was it. But now like our children have, there's so much variety of different things that are offered. so humble. I think being in the Sydney Tao scene and being in this community where there is so much offered to us is actually a massive blessing.
I cannot tell you how many people I have known all who have left and tried it out. Yes. What it's always come back and everyone starts to realize we really, we are really moving forward. I know it feels like sometimes we're going backwards, but I believe it's like two steps forward. And one.
We are actually moving here. A lot of ways where there's a lot of I don't want to name specific issues, right. Yeah, certain issues that we didn't have to deal with back in the days, but now that's prevalent and that's scaring a lot of families. Yeah. But yeah, I guess if you can still keep our children part two for these. We do.
But I think we should wrap it up here.
The role modeling question, I think we okay, you know, I think we'll wrap it up here because it's not been an hour and a half and I need
prove to you okay, if you can just look at that camera and give like a one minute let's see here to the audience about parenting or some closing thoughts, you know, they can take home with inshallah.
Okay, to all the mothers out there we are all it's really, really important that you network number one, whether if you don't have you know, blood sisters or grandparents but you create your own village, okay? Whether it's your neighbor, whether it's sisters at the mosque, that you have your own village system, number one. Number two, there is no ideal way of parenting do not compare other mothers to yourself because Allah subhanaw taala has given us all a different means and different strengths and different weaknesses, okay. And we need to focus on those strengths and in terms of what we're doing with our family and our children.
The third tip that I'm going to give everybody is that we all have 24 hours in our life, I urge you and I request that you do all of those acts that increase the baraka in your home. Because if you can implement that, and which is you know, your prayers, your Quran, you know, your liquor, feeding guests, you know, even if it's a glass of water, bringing those concepts into your home and into your life so your children can emulate that
will also bring Baraka into your children's upbringing and in their life in sha Allah, teach your children the law of circulation, the law of giving because we live in a very unfortunately, selfish world, okay? And detach them, don't desensitize them. Go out spend quality time because as time passes, and you look back, you will regret the moments that you did not give quality time to your children. You know, I had a sign when my kids were younger and immaculate house is a sign of a very boring person. It used to be a woman but across the right a rope person because it's not a woman's job to keep her house clean. I want you to put that up. And don't worry when the dishes are piled
up, you've got tomorrow morning to do it, then you can't replace that time that you have lost with your children. And put your emotions aside. Always look at the situation from a third person's perspective, right? And be involved in every aspect of your child's life or your children's life. So you have that beautiful communication and beautiful relationship. It's going to impact your relationship because you want when your children are teenagers. The best thing is when you come home and your children asked you, Mom, how was your day?
Definitely. Okay, my advice. Yes, Mila would hamdulillah so look, my advice and she will hopefully be quicker than I'm trying to wrap it up fast. So, I just want everyone to visualize their children as if you're dealing with a seed. Alright, so try to think about first of all,
raising children goes beyond just the beginning of that child, it actually goes back to choosing the right husband, if you're a woman, choosing the right wife, if you're a male, you know that because she's going to be the mother of your children, okay, so choose the right, you know, beginnings for that seed, then make a strong foundation for that seed to grow in, you know what I mean? Nurture, that seed needs nurturing, you cannot just have that good intention to raise your, your seed for that for the sake of Allah subhanaw taala you know, I mean, in the beginning and lose that lose that, that Nia, that NIA has to be with you all along, right? So you're constantly nurturing and
loving Inshallah, that, you know, that that seed for as long as it needs, okay. And then, you know, then after that, realize that, you know, ultimately it's Allah Subhana Allah Who gives us tofield just like the farmer when they they plant their seeds and they do the best they could to to cultivate that you know that you know that those seeds but ultimately, Allah is the One who gives us tofield and so as well just like what Sister Lisa was saying as well pay attention to Helen pay attention to Halal in your in your financial dealings and you know, in what you eat all of those things because you know, you need Allah's help inshallah to make you successful it can be your sins
that can cause you know, you to be tested in your children as well so that those are a few things but there's so much more we could share but like that's just an ultimately also say the draw out from the Quran. This is something I used to always show the try to say in my search stuff for my kids, Rob banner haeberlin I mean, as well as you know, with Google yet, you know, Quwata our union we're journaling with Tokina Imam
which means, oh Allah bestow upon us, you know, basically righteous children and stretches spouses and children, who bring the, you know, the happiness to our eyes, and make us leaders like make us lead us, you know, raise us to be leaders for the Gupta pin. So that's what we want to raise, we want to raise you know, confident leaders Inshallah, for the Muslim community being the lead it is the ultimate aim beating the law.
I mean, that was profound. I think, what a profound discussion we had today. In short, I think so many people are going to take home so many good lessons from here. I want to thank you both. Really, like from the bottom of my heart does that love hate him for coming here today and taking that time in these Blessington nights of Ramadan, to be here and I really think that everyone who's watching inshallah has benefited from it in one way I know I have this things I want to go home and start practicing straightaway. So thank you so much, Mother, we want you thank you so much. And I really ask Allah to give you all success in raising your children, you know, because we have to offer each
other what we love for our souls, just what I wanted my kids in Charlotte and at least one of her kids to be the same thing. We We only came here tonight honestly, to try to share something to help everyone else out there because we know it's really challenging. It is challenging. mela make it easy and successful for all of us and serving me, all of you who have been watching at home thank you so much for joining us tonight.
We're in the last 10 nights you know this is the time to try and reaping as many rewards as you can. You can actually automate payments with nationals the Gates Foundation so you don't forget to accidentally give charity and one of the nights so if you go onto the website, inshallah you can automate. That's what I did last year as well and it really helped automate payments, whether it's a gas payments or sadaqa and ensure it hits the mountain of laevigata. May Allah bless you all and give you immense botica in your last 10 nights of Ramadan, I'm going to wrap it up now so Salam Alaikum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh.
There are Muslims living in extreme poverty he in Australia, Muslims who have no food in their fridge or pantry and don't know where their next meal is coming from Muslims who literally have no home or have no stable accommodation and are effectively classified as homeless Muslims whose lives have been destroyed by harmful addictions that have almost ruin their bodies and minds and left them in financial destitute. There are many Muslims who don't qualify for the welfare system, but it is our responsibility as a community to take care of them and it is the card that can change their lives.
National zakat foundation is an organization that has been helping many Muslims here in Australia, which is a very important initiative that we as Muslims living in Australia need and therefore we urge you they help your brothers here in Australia through nationals account Foundation, Muslims who were left without jobs over the course of the COVID 19 pandemic, who ended up helped out of financial desperation, Muslims NZDF took from the streets, supporting them with education and training, and who are now as I get paid as themselves helping other Muslims in turn, Muslims who after arriving as refugees received the support of their brothers and since there's an are now
contributors in our community since 2013. We have helped 1000s of Muslims to the blessing of the car directly globally in Australia, but there are 1000s More that need our help. This Ramadan, we invite you to help achieve our vision of a thriving Muslim community when no one is left behind your Zika can change tomorrow.