Tom Facchine – I Converted To Islam In High School & Rauno Abu Maryam

Tom Facchine
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The speakers discuss the cultural aspect of Islam, including the birth of Mohammed bin Salman and the growth of women in their area. They emphasize the importance of finding sources of information reliable and finding one's own values. The speakers also discuss the challenges of educating non-English speakers on the topic of Joe Biden's actions and the need for a federal investigation into his actions. They acknowledge the need for improvement and educating non-English speakers about the Joe Biden movement.

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			Bismillah Alhamdulillah wa salatu salam Salah Welcome back to Imam talk. Today we have a very, very
special guest with a very, very interesting YouTube channel called Nordic Muslim, our brother and my
my colleague from the University of Medina who hails from Estonia. Could you please introduce
yourself your name
		
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			and where you're located now brother?
		
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			A salaam aleikum wa rahmatullah wa barakato. First of all, just Alchemilla higher and for inviting
me to this podcast. And I'm Yes, as as, as you said, I'm from Estonia.
		
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			The date with names like my, my birth name is Raul now, are you and no, that's an Estonian name. And
when I converted to Islam, I started using use of so most people back in the mid back in Medina,
they know they knew me as use of. And after that, and other brothers started calling me Abu Mariam,
even though I don't have any kids yet.
		
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			I knew always I still know that Inshallah, when I have my first daughter, she's going to be married.
So I go by Abu Marie. I'm also recently so I have many names. I'm Belinda Russell, I, so you
continue Go ahead. And like this stone is really small country currently, and I'm in the
southeastern part of it in a really small place called Castellina. Like, just it's basically like a
village like 600 people recently moved here. And because this is where my parents live, and
		
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			we have something going in a small town, like where we started like Juma prayers recently, so I'm,
you know, still in touch with the brothers there. And, but it's really kind of far away from the
Capitol, but it's just like a two and a half hours drive anyway, so you can easily, you know, get
stolen as a really small country.
		
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			Mashallah, that's very, very interesting. I'm glad I asked about the name.
		
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			And I'd like to go back to it for a second. Because a lot of us, we have kind of that choice. And
I'm always asked, because I go by Tom and I, when I converted to Islam, I only kind of took on
another name, maybe for a year or two in the very beginning.
		
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			And then I kind of went back to my my birth name. And there's various sorts of approaches to that.
And a lot of people are curious, or maybe want to know, why people choose either to adopt a new name
or to continue with the other one, what was sort of your thought process when it came to your birth
name versus taking on another name? Yeah, so first, when you become a Muslim, you kind of want to
make like your whole life as Islamic as possible. And sometimes you're not aware even that, you
know, you don't have to change your name like, and this is something I only realized, while I was
already in Medina, one of the one of the best brothers I've ever met, they're one of the brothers
		
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			from Algeria. He also explained to me how, you know, it's better not to use a new name, when your
old name like your birth name doesn't have any bad meaning, especially like, if you can be doing
Dawa in your own country. And then, you know, people are gonna think like, you know, why do you have
to, like, pick up, like, take an Arab name, or something like that, and also for the sake of your
parents, when, when they have given you a name, and there's nothing wrong with that. And then, you
know, you choose another name, you leave the name that your parents gave you, it can be really harsh
on them. And we then sometimes think about this as converse, and I think it's really, it's better
		
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			like you can have a Konya, it's no problem with that, like, I have Apple Meriam. But I think it's
better to stick to the birth time that we have, unless it has like some bad meaning, then we can
consider changing it maybe like, like, if you have like up to champs or something like in a slave of
the sun or something, then obviously, it's better to change that. Right. Now, do you know what your
your birth name means? I tried, like, I tried really hard various times to find out what it means
exactly the closest I got was like some kind of like, counselor or something like that, or like I
really, like don't have exact, exact like,
		
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			like meaning, but I didn't find that it has any bad meaning. So I'll handle like I can, I can use
it. Yeah, that's a great point that you bring up and that's something that I eventually came to
realize as well. And it was the second point that you brought up about families very, very pertinent
to me because my my father has the same name. Right? So he named me after him. And so if I had gone
about and, you know, my father is still not a Muslim, so, you know, everybody can pray for him
inshallah for guidance. But if I had changed my name at one point, I had no it would have really,
really set us back, you know, and it would have damaged our relationship. One of the interesting
		
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			things is that, you know, when I started looking into it, you don't
		
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			Think about what your name means growing up, it's just a name.
		
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			And my name actually does exist in Arabic.
		
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			As tell em tell em is actually the the means twin. And so Thomas with the long form of Tom has
actually a symmetric name that it exists in Hebrew and in Arabic and an Aramaic. And Thomas was
supposedly one of the however Yean, one of the the disciples of Asa Alehissalaam. So it is really
interesting, like to look into your name and to, to keep that part of your identity, just as you
said, if it's not something that is offensive to a Las Palmas, Otto or his Dean, then there's no
reason to change it. And in fact, it's actually a really significant data point, like you were
saying, because I probably would imagine in a Estonia, similar to the United States, there's a
		
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			perception that Islam is a foreign religion. Right? And so, if they expect you to be okay, if your
name is useful for your name, as you know, Mohammed, like, Okay, this foreign guy came in, he has
his religion, and that's his culture, whatever. But if they see someone named Tom, or Bob, we have
Bobby the other day, who might you know, who knows? Insha Allah becomes a Muslim.
		
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			And other people like John, I know several John's that have become Muslim. And, you know, this is
something that forces them to think about it in a different way. Well, maybe this isn't just some
sort of cultural thing. Maybe this is something more universal than that. And something that is
accessible, even to me, maybe it's something that I should consider for myself. So that's really,
really fascinating.
		
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			Tell us a little bit more about Islam in Estonia. And I'm sorry, are you yourself actually a convert
but is that true? Yeah. Yeah, I converted when I was about 17 1817 is when I started failing as a
Muslim already, but I didn't really say the shahada had been pray properly. But when I after turning
18 This is where I started praying properly. And I said to shahada so yeah, it's been a it's been a
lot of years, like most of the adult life has been as a Muslim.
		
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			But as for as for Islam in Estonia,
		
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			recently, the the census official census results came out, like the dude every 10 years, and one of
the questions they ask is about religion. So back in 2011, when they did it the last time
		
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			before the latest census,
		
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			there were like, officially 1508 Muslims 0.1% of the population is still one is a small country
anyways, so like, it's 1500, like, you know, it's a small number, but you know, in a stellar in
context, it's not that small either, like, but still pretty small. 0.1%. And
		
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			according to the latest census, 2021, they just recently published the results of that, regarding
religion, the Muslim population has officially grown. It's now 0.5% of the whole population. So that
makes about 5000 6000 people. It's, it's, it's a small number, but the growth Michelle likes, it's
really good. It's like, it has grown like five times, obviously, like, it's probably not going to be
growing that fast. But we'll see Inshallah, hopefully, it will be interesting. So where is the
growth coming from? Is it coming from outside from immigration? Is it mostly refugees? Is it
internal converts, how's it growth? I wish it was like internal I wish it was like more convert. And
		
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			handling we do have some converts, mostly, mostly sisters, mostly women who find their way to Islam.
There are not many Estonian men who have converted to Islam. But mostly the growth has come from
from outside the the university students coming from outside or people come to work to Estonia. And
then when the whole refugee thing started in Europe, like everyone was afraid that like, you know,
it's gonna be stolen, it's going to be flooded with Muslims, but but this growth, only like, a small
part of that growth is is by bride refugees.
		
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			Interesting. Okay. I want to go back to what you said about women because that's something we
experience here as well. We have I think, a WhatsApp group for the local converts the people who
have converted to Islam in this area, and almost all of them are women. Like I think maybe we have
30 or 40 individuals, maybe just 1234 Maximum men, and the rest of them are all women. Why do you
think it is that Western women find Islam so appealing? Maybe there's something specific in Estonia
that's different from us, but what or do you have any reflections on that? I've thought about spinal
I've thought about the same thing myself like even years ago because like it's It's the trend is
		
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			that women generally like even in like, you know,
		
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			Other countries, they generally accept Islam more than the men do. I think personally, it's just a
personal opinion that one of the reasons is that women generally tend to be a little bit more
spiritual, they tend to find more time to look into these things. You know, men are busy with, you
know, with other things more, in my opinion, but women sort of like, they, maybe they read more,
they're more into education, if you look look at like, even the numbers, like in universities, like
mostly it's the, it's the women who, who are represented more. So I think women by nature, in a way
have have kind of like a tendency to learn, try to learn more and educate themselves more, and maybe
		
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			men do. But that's, again, like just my personal reflection on it know that there certainly is data
to back that up, at least in the United States, when it comes to religious practice. It's more
typical, at least in our country, that, that women have higher rates, or report higher rates of
religiosity and taking over responsibility for the religiosity of the children. And I think that's a
big thing, too. Once someone becomes a parent, usually it's it's the women that are, are really,
really insistent upon the religious upbringing of their kids. And that was something I experienced
personally.
		
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			My mother always took us to church every single Sunday, my father couldn't really care less he
didn't really didn't really come most times.
		
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			So that's something at least that's very common for us.
		
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			So before, I do want to get into a little bit of your, your, your personal history, and what sort of
brought you to Islam, but you know, we're just talking about population and immigration, these sorts
of things. Obviously, Europe is going through a lot of really interesting trends and crises and
reactions, and when it comes to the whole immigrant thing, and Islam and how, how can Muslims be
accommodated into Europe? And do they belong in Europe? And all these sorts of things? What's it
like? What's the relationship between the Muslims and sort of the quote unquote, native Estonians
like, in Estonia, like, is there tension? Is it relatively amicable? What's the situation
		
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			handled, like, mostly it's, you know, it's okay to be a Muslim, you don't really get like, judged
for being a Muslim that much.
		
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			But it got a bit worse, when the whole refugee like wave started coming from the Middle East, and
especially the far right parties, especially one of them used it like for, you know, getting, you
know, getting more fame, and they started talking about it, and like, kind of scaring people, they
gained a lot of followers through that.
		
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			So at that time,
		
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			people started becoming first really anti refugees, but also at the same time anti Muslim, because
most of the most of the refugees at the time, came from Muslim countries. And
		
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			one thing that also maybe worth mentioning here is
		
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			that, in some, in some cases, they have the right, I believe, like, I have my my position also has
changed regarding refugees. Like, sometimes
		
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			we'll see people like flee from the war, they're like really refugees, you know, they have, like,
their homes got destroyed, you know, they have lost everything, and they just want to, you know,
find a safe place to live in. That's, that's one thing. But there's also a lot of people even, like,
you know, even coming from countries that don't have any war in them, I was like, involved in like,
in some work personally, like translating for the, for the police and border guard, like that same
summer when this whole like, you know, refugee wave happened. And they were like, some guys like
three guys, or something came coming from Algeria. And, you know, they don't really have the excuse
		
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			to use this, like, you know, like, do apply as a war, like, you know, War Refugee or something like
that. And, and, especially if they are demanding, like, you know, free, free education, free
housing, free accommodation, anything like that, it's going to upset the local people, obviously,
who also have the same struggle, they have to find a job they have to apply to university. So, so in
a way, I understand why some people get really angry
		
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			with the way refugees, but it's really complicated issue and like, you know, you can't, you can't
judge all of them, you know, just based on one experience that you've had, because some people
really like, you know, they've had it so rough in their countries, like coming from Syria or
wherever, and, you know, just to
		
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			be like, aggressive towards them here. Like, you know, nobody should do that. Yeah, no, that's,
that's, that's a really good point that you make. There is it's a shame that whenever something is
provided for free or some sort of help
		
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			There's always people out there that are looking to take advantage of it that don't necessarily
deserve it. Or that's not really their situation. And that's just a human element. It's not
something about Muslims or Islam. You know, we recently had a big expos a on COVID aid, right? So we
had the pandemic, and there was a lot of financial aid that was given out left and right for this
and that cause. And they're just starting to realize how much fraud was involved in applying for
that aid, and some people just kind of getting rich off of it. Now, obviously, some people exploit
these things, like you were saying, like people on certain political persuasion, exploit these
		
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			things to make an argument that this shouldn't happen at all. And that's not necessarily logical,
because people need help. But, you know, just to say that this human element kind of is always
there. That's that's looking to kind of exploit something, regrettably. And yeah, it hurts, it
hurts. It hurts everybody, because you do get painted with one broad brush. As we say. It's really
interesting in Utica, New York, you know, Utica is known as unofficially as the city that loves
refugees.
		
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			Because we've had, we have a very large refugee resettlement center. And refugees have literally
turn the city around. And this is actually that's why I asked the question in the first place, you
have places like in southern Italy, I'm sure you're probably aware of where
		
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			they were experiencing loss of population and loss of jobs and all these sorts of things. Then the
refugees came in, or they were allowed to come in. And they completely turned around the local
economy. Very single similar thing that happened here, especially starting with the Bosnians in the
90s. Buying up old buildings, or inhabiting old buildings, renovating them, completely, sort of
turning the city around. And so it's really interesting to live in Utica, we have this kind of
culture where even the the non Muslims are the people who have been in Utica for 100 years, or their
families have they understand most of them, most of them, like understand the value of refugees and
		
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			what they bring. Most of them are hard workers, most of them. Yes, they take time. I think we have
some local people, academics that run studies and things like that, and found that it takes refugees
about seven years, to get fully acclimated to the point where they're putting back in and
contributing and actually adding value to the community. Because it is hard, it's hard to pick up
everything and go to a place that's completely different. You don't know the language, you don't
know the culture, all these sorts of things. So that's, that's, that's very fascinating, something
that both Europe and the United States have in common.
		
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			So tell us a little bit more about then, okay, you're in this country that has very, very, very few
Muslims. How did you become exposed to Islam? And what attracted you to it?
		
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			So I come from my background is like, really, like an average Estonian family, I would say, my
parents are not religious.
		
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			I would say agnostic, maybe my dad would sometimes go to the church during the Christmas time,
because it's just a habit, you know, people do that. Not really, for religious reasons, maybe, but
just, you know, part of the holidays festivities,
		
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			the only person in my family who was religious was my grandfather.
		
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			And at some point, I started finding that, you know, there has to be a creator at some kind of
higher power, probably had heard some things about God from here and there, and somehow started
believing in God. I was like, I was like, Really, like a child. At that time. I can't remember my
age, maybe like 1011 12, something like that. And, and somehow, I got curious, and I wanted to know
more about it. But the only, like, sources about religion that I can get my hands on, we're
Christian. So for example, I remember my grandfather had this small
		
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			book for children with Bible stories.
		
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			You know, telling the stories about the prophets, actually, like a lot of it was, you know, true,
because, you know, we believe in like a lot of the same stories in Islam, you know, broadly.
		
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			So I remember reading that, and it kind of strengthened my faith in a way at that time, that yeah,
there is a God. And somehow I started, you know, becoming
		
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			more closer to Christianity, until I found myself actually practicing Christianity.
		
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			During my teenage years, I would go to church sometimes, but in another town, or away because I was
shy about it, like, talking about religion, being religious or having or believing in God in Estonia
at that time was was something that is that was frowned upon. Even Even nowadays, some people like
you know, think you were like crazy or you're like
		
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			You're silly to believe in a higher power. So yeah, I would go to another town just to attend the
church.
		
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			I would read the Bible regularly, I would say the prayer every night before I go to bed, the
Christian prayer. But at some point,
		
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			I started doubting the whole concept of, of Trinity.
		
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			It's funny to think about it that actually believed in it somehow. And now it like, doesn't make any
sense to me at all. Like, how can how can like this, you know, three in one thing work and make
sense.
		
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			So I started moving away from Christianity, but I remember I would still go to church, and I would
still pray to God. And even even though I might be confusing, but even though I believe in Trinity,
I never prayed to Jesus, right? I believe that Jesus was son of God, but I never pray to him. I only
pray to You know, one God. That's a very common remark. Like, it's amazing how often I hear that and
myself, too. I mean, I never once prayed to Jesus in my life, even though I believed in Trinity. So
that's
		
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			the only one that finds fascinating.
		
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			Yeah, so after that, I started moving away from Christianity. And I was kind of, in this time
period, where I believed in one God and I thought, I honestly thought that this is how I'm going to
be I don't need any religion, but just believing in one God, that's enough. I don't need any I don't
need to follow any particular religion, I can be like a believer, but not religious. So
		
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			at that time period, I was also more open to other resources. Like other sources,
		
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			whether they were like,
		
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			Islamic or like, even like, I looked into some Hindu
		
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			stuff.
		
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			I watched in one of the videos, you also said music was a big part of your life before and, and for
me, it was the same like I used to play the guitar. And I used to, like, do some busking on the
streets, play the guitar and sing a little bit, just for the fun of it. And I remember in one, one
of the music festivals, one of the biggest ones in Estonia, I met some met some women or girls from
		
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			like, they were still only in but they were like, in Belgium,
		
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			following some kind of Hindu mystic religion, like in a in a temple and living there. And it's, it
seems so cool to me. So I wanted to read more about it. But this thing like this book that I was
supposed to get, I think it was called Bhagavad Gita or something like that. Yeah, of course. Yeah.
It went on, it went by me. And a few months later, I started reading more about Islam. I had some
people I would talk to online, like friends, online friends, who were Muslim. And they weren't
really doing Dawa, to me. But I got a better picture about what Islam is or what Muslims are about,
or what they are not about, which, you know, you get up from the TV that, you know, Muslims are
		
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			like, violent, and Islam is a really violent religion. So humbly I got, I got a better picture about
about Islam. And I decided to read the Quran, that is the translation of the meaning of the Quran, I
just come out in Estonian and non Muslim I translated it but still am that it was, you know, okay to
read stories.
		
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			And I started reading that, and I didn't think that I would become a Muslim. But every time I would
read it, I would read it daily, I would start thinking that like, Hannah, like, you know, this, this
looks like, you know, this is the truth this makes sense. Like, and, you know, for people, like
different verses affect them. But for me, honestly, it was, like the verses about Jahannam like,
what if, what if it's true? What if Islam is true? And all those verses about Jehovah and what if
I'm going to end up there, if I then follow this? So of course, now we know that you know, what, you
have to have the hope and the fear imbalanced, you have to have the help of reaching Jannah and the
		
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			fear of you know, ending up in hellfire which you know, makes you work more with good deeds and, you
know, abstain from all the bad beats. But at that time, we didn't get it was really there was a
verses about Jahannam that struck me the most and, and as I was going through it, I started feeling
myself as as a Muslim because I believed in it. And, and, and spa like one thing I also say to
people, especially non Muslims, like sometimes the non Muslim students, they visit the Islamic
Center, and I tell them about my journey. I always emphasize that for me, it was always believing in
the same God I never had
		
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			To like, you know, turn around and like, you know, think over all of my worldview and belief system,
it was like, you know, going from high school to university like, you know, going forward. It's not
like, you know, you had to like make it turn to somewhere else. Right? Software Update. That's what
I call it. It was a software update. Exactly, exactly. So yeah, like this is, this is how I became a
Muslim. After that, like, it took a while to
		
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			actually start praying properly and even to say the shahada because I had this, this thought that
like, oh, like, I'm gonna go to Egypt, I had, like, the plane tickets booked and everything planned,
going to go to some big masjid, they're
		
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			going to be like a really amazing ceremony or whatever. I'm going to do the shahada there. But it
was a really interesting, interesting part of, of my life.
		
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			Like this transitional phase. So you know, at that time, of course, I wasn't really following Islam
that much in all the aspects.
		
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			So yeah, like it was. It was crazy time, in a way. But at Hamdulillah. Eventually, after many, many
months, I actually said the Shahada. I started praying. And
		
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			I don't know if you want me to go on, because I would go, there's so much there's so much to let's
maybe pause. And there's there's a couple of follow up questions. I have it because well, first of
all, I find it really interesting, your comment about the verses about Johanna. And I think that one
of the things you hinted at, and it's very, very true is that those verses give us a sense that
there's something at stake here, right, there's something that you really have to figure out.
Because a lot of us, you know, we go through life, and it's just like, well, you know, you can
believe or you cannot believe where you can have religion and not have religion. And, you know, it's
		
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			like, that's your culture, or that's not your culture, and everybody can choose what they want.
Right? That's a very, like low stake scenario. And it doesn't give anybody a sense of urgency,
right? If you realize that, yeah, like various eternal consequences to this thing, how you're living
your life, what are the things that you're believing in? What are the principles that are guiding
your decisions and your actions and things like that?
		
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			Yeah, like, it's a very motivating thing. And that's a really fascinating part of your story. I
think that you felt the urgency, you have to figure it out. That's what I try to tell Christians and
anybody you know, that you owe it to yourself to investigate? Because what, what's the consequences
if you're wrong, you know, the consequences of being wrong are actually quite, quite severe. And so
you don't have to, I'm not going to tell you, you know, what, what to believe. And I don't expect
any random person on the internet to just trust me, but you owe it to yourself to figure it out on
your own. And if you come to this conclusion, or that conclusion, then at least you tried, right but
		
00:27:54 --> 00:28:03
			for people to just sit back and you know, your life is Netflix and you know, whatever go into the
club or go into the disco. In Europe, they call the disco right?
		
00:28:04 --> 00:28:22
			I think they call it the clouds. Now we do they call it the cloud? No, okay. We call it the cloud,
you know, that's your life, then it's, you, you've lost either way, right? You've failed to kind of
take that required amount of care and, and investigation and do the sort of thing that was that was
needed to do.
		
00:28:24 --> 00:29:06
			But what another thing allowed me to do, please just one thing I wanted to add, like here, like
regarding this is also what I always tell the non Muslims, when I have this discussion, that like, I
tell them like this, like, okay, let's let's, let's say that, you know, there is no life after
death. And I'm not risking with anything really, like, I'm gonna live my life as a Muslim. Muslims
generally are religious people in general, are more happy or happier in this life. They have more
meaningful lives in general. And so you know, Alhamdulillah live this life, if there's nothing, you
know, I don't lose anything. But I was like you, if you don't look into this, if you don't believe
		
00:29:06 --> 00:29:31
			in God, your whole life, if you don't have God in your life, like you are really skilled with a lot,
if there is something like of course, we as Muslims believe that there is without, you know, without
any doubt, but I tell them, the non Muslims that you know, if there is an afterlife, if there is
eternal life, it is hellfire. Then you are risking with with a lot. There's a lot at stake here,
just as you said, Yeah, that's
		
00:29:32 --> 00:29:47
			the other thing that kind of caught my eye. Like, it's fascinating to me to think about that stage
when you're, you first make the decision to start to be religious, okay. Or to you know, you believe
or you start to believe a little bit more.
		
00:29:48 --> 00:30:00
			And then there's all these paths that are open to you, right? You mentioned that Hinduism and kind
of, you know, sort of having some leanings that way. There's two questions that I want to kind of
get your your
		
00:30:00 --> 00:30:27
			Take on, there's a lot of people, especially today, especially in the United States, that they don't
feel the need to limit themselves to just one path. Right? So they, they say, like, you know, I
don't have to commit to be a Christian or to be a Muslim or to be this or even to be a Hindu or this
or that, right? Like, I can just try to be a good person and believe in God and be and be spiritual
in my own way.
		
00:30:28 --> 00:31:01
			And that's enough. So the first question would be like, Why wasn't that enough for you? Why did you
feel like you needed to? Or was there a moment or some sort of thing that dawned on you, where you
realize that that wasn't enough? And then the second question is Why Islam? Because if you're a lot
of Westerners are attracted to Hinduism and Buddhism, and the Far Eastern religions, and I have my
own sort of ideas and thoughts as to why that is. But eventually, you did choose Islam. So what was
appealing about Islam over Hinduism, for example.
		
00:31:04 --> 00:31:12
			So regarding, you know, like, people, people like thinking that, okay, like, you know, I don't need
a real religion, like, I'll just
		
00:31:13 --> 00:31:19
			leaving one guy, for example, or, like, I follow like, bits and pieces of this religion and, like,
follow something from here, something from there.
		
00:31:20 --> 00:31:41
			The problem with that is, is of course, that I didn't have like, one single moment where I thought,
like, okay, like, you know, I must, you know, have religion now, it was like, a really gradual
process of reading the Quran, which made me realize that I have to no one to follow Islam. But I
think the the major problem here is that
		
00:31:42 --> 00:31:52
			if the people going down that path that just are picking what they like, from one religion, for
example, or like, you know, following something from some other religion,
		
00:31:54 --> 00:32:07
			it's going to be first of all really subjective. Like, they don't really have a valid basis, like,
you know, the claim that okay, this is right, and this is wrong. And there is no like, like,
objective
		
00:32:08 --> 00:32:16
			conception of right and wrong without, without, without God, without the Creator. And we need to
find the sources,
		
00:32:17 --> 00:32:42
			which are reliable, that have come from God, from the Creator, that we can learn from, so we can we
can know what is right, what is wrong, what we, you know, what we're supposed to do in this life,
and what, you know, what we can do what we can't do. So, I think that is one of the, like, major
things like, because even if you argue with those people, sometimes you have discussions, like,
they're going to base their, you know,
		
00:32:44 --> 00:32:49
			like, their opinions on something subjective, some experience they had, maybe
		
00:32:50 --> 00:33:31
			it's not gonna be like, in the end objective. And if you can't have even morality, you can't have
like, like, objective morals, without putting, putting the Creator putting God Allah in, in, in that
equation. So that's why we need like we need, we need some kind of source and we need to look into
holy books, like it's not bad, like for a person who is looking for, you know, for looking for God
to compare maybe different, different holy books, but hopefully, they will see they will come to
Quran in the end and see, like, Hamdulillah, this, this has been preserved as it as it was revealed.
And it makes sense. And, in my case, why Islam Why didn't I look for other
		
00:33:32 --> 00:34:00
			religions, for example, I had to, like, kind of eliminate from from from that list of religions,
like some religions that like, I knew that I would not follow up because they didn't have that
concept of one God, because I knew that, you know, I believe in one God, this is what I'm looking
for. I'm looking some kind of maybe, like, some kind of framework around it, like, you know, how to
like how to act in this life, what to do what not to do, but it had to be
		
00:34:02 --> 00:34:08
			with one God, one Creator. So Buddhism, for example, was completely out of question, in my case.
		
00:34:09 --> 00:34:31
			Some, like, even with Hinduism, like you know, like those people that I met in that music festival,
they, they were believing also one God, but like, when you look at the Hinduism, really, like, you
know, it's, it's really, it's really confusing. There's like many different versions, even you can
say, and there's like many, many gods, so how can it really be like,
		
00:34:32 --> 00:34:34
			monotheistic religion?
		
00:34:35 --> 00:34:49
			And so for me, I knew that, you know, I believe in one God, also believed in Jesus, but I didn't
believe in Jesus anymore as the Son of God or part of trinity or, you know, part of God himself.
		
00:34:51 --> 00:34:59
			So, Islam just, you know, fit for me perfectly. There wasn't really any other religion, that that
could, you know, fit all
		
00:35:00 --> 00:35:04
			These all these things that you know, I was already believing. And that made sense to me.
		
00:35:06 --> 00:35:17
			Very nice, very excellent reflections. Thank you so much for going into that. Okay, so let's let's
pick back up with where you were, you're near 17, late teens, you become a Muslim?
		
00:35:18 --> 00:35:25
			Where do you go from there? What did your parents say? What did your family say? Yeah, Alhamdulillah
my parents
		
00:35:26 --> 00:35:41
			Alhamdulillah I can only say good things about them. Of course, they had some sort of, like fear
about you know, what's what's going to happen now is our son going to turn out to be like a
terrorist legs, these fears are real as as as, like,
		
00:35:42 --> 00:35:47
			you know, silly as it sounds. But you know, this, in a country where Islam
		
00:35:48 --> 00:36:00
			doesn't have, you know, people don't know about Islam. And they have heard like bits and pieces,
which is most negative, maybe are from the media from TV, etc. They might have such fears,
		
00:36:01 --> 00:36:03
			by their handle line time, especially
		
00:36:05 --> 00:36:18
			my relationship with my parents, but then maybe even especially, my mom got got much better, we got
like, really close and handle until this day, we were like really close even with my dad. So So I
handled
		
00:36:19 --> 00:36:33
			in general, like Islam helped me become a better son to my parents. And hamdulillah relationship got
much better. Between me and my mom and dad. And
		
00:36:34 --> 00:36:49
			especially in time, they became even more supportive regarding my, my choices as a Muslim. And, of
course, one of the difficult things was when I decided to go to study in Medina, which meant that I
would be away
		
00:36:51 --> 00:36:53
			in another country for a long time period.
		
00:36:55 --> 00:37:11
			So it was hard for them. But that Hamdulillah we could deny in these days, like it was easier to
stay in touch with them with, you know, online, call them cetera. But before I go into the medina
stuff, I wanted to come back to the,
		
00:37:12 --> 00:37:13
			like the high school
		
00:37:14 --> 00:37:35
			time, because I accepted Islam, when I was in 11th grade. So in fourth grade, last year of high
school, I was Muslim, I was a practicing Muslim. And it was, it was an interesting time, it was not
easy. But there's so many lessons to just learn from that. Like that one year.
		
00:37:36 --> 00:37:51
			It's one of the things is that, like, if you are looking for ways to do things properly, for
example, regarding prayers, then Allah will, Allah will help you. There are so many, so many
		
00:37:52 --> 00:38:36
			kids these days, or maybe not kids, like people who have to pray. They're like going to high school,
they're already in that in that age. But but you know, they make up all these excuses. Yeah, and
even sometimes parents are supportive, oh, you know, just come back home, do your like, you know,
prayers after, like, the school days is over. So I was like, I was that like, you know, like
recently converted. I was like, really, like, straightforward, straightforward with that. I knew
that I had to pray on time. And especially in the winter, like, sometimes the classes would end at
3pm. So we have a board at like 1212 o'clock, and one 1.1 PM, we already have acid. Wow, obviously,
		
00:38:36 --> 00:38:59
			at least you have to pray for you and probably answer as well. So what I would do, like, I would
before, I've never asked out from the classes, like people go to the toilet, sometimes I would never
do that. So I started asking God, like, you know, they kind of go out Teacher, please, need to go
out. I never told why. But I went to went to pray when to pray and be
		
00:39:00 --> 00:39:08
			one of the stairs that wasn't used that much. It had like a little bit of traffic still. Or
sometimes it would go to be
		
00:39:10 --> 00:39:29
			like, near the, like the sports hall where we would like go to, like, change our clothes after the
physical education classes. I would sometimes pray there. I would look around this whole school
building a place where I can pray. And Hamdulillah I was always able to do it.
		
00:39:30 --> 00:39:59
			Sometimes maybe, yes. I have to admit like I would stop meet prayer. Because sometimes sometimes
somebody would walk I would hurt someone coming and I would stop to prayer. Just be on my phone
pretend like I wasn't doing anything. Yes, that was not correct. Maybe I was maybe didn't have that
in that much be man to continue praying and not care. But the handler I got back later I did the
prayer again. So alhamdulillah it's one of the things that I I think it's really really important.
		
00:40:00 --> 00:40:09
			Like prayer is one of the most important pillars in the life of a Muslim. And if we become like
really like, you know,
		
00:40:10 --> 00:40:14
			maybe lenient is not the right word, the best word, but if we, you know,
		
00:40:15 --> 00:40:26
			we don't like seriously, yeah, like, relax, like, yeah, just you know, the higher inshallah you pray
after you come back from school or like, like, if you teach your kids for example,
		
00:40:27 --> 00:41:06
			then, you know, they just make all like, the prayers like the harasser. Maghrib, you know, when they
when they come back home, if you let them do that for years, like in high school, for example, it's
going to be really, really hard for them to actually start praying properly. Once, you know, high
school is over. Like, they're going to have all the excuses like, you know, to not pray on time
afterwards, as well in university or in their workplace. But the thing is, like, if you're looking
for a way to pray, or do anything that is pleasing to Allah, that you have to do that is one of your
obligations as a Muslim, then, you know, rest assured, Allah will help you in that he will make a
		
00:41:06 --> 00:41:46
			way you're not just asking, make to add to, to him, and he will, he will make it easier for you. And
we all, you know, experience some kinds of tests. It's in the Quran that like, you know, after
people start believing, don't expect that, you know, you will be left alone and without any tests
and hardships. And now, we in the West, like, general, we have an easy, like, we don't have to
struggle, like, especially these days, like in this era, like, we don't have the struggles that the
Prophet Muhammad sallallahu alayhi salam and the Sahaba had, that they were really suffering, they
were like, you know, having a tough, but we also have our tests, and they're, they're of different
		
00:41:46 --> 00:42:27
			levels. And, and one of the tests can be, you know, to pray on time, sometimes maybe it's not easy,
maybe at school, maybe have work. But you know, if you really want to do it, Allah will make it make
it possible for you. And it's super important, it shows the value of converts, you know, because
people such as you and me, who convert, and we don't have any sort of doubts about belonging to a
society, we can be more bold, or at least it's easier for us not saying that people who come from
outside shouldn't be that bold. Yes, they should be. But for them, it's also tied in with these, you
know, narrow political narratives and about being an outsider and being a foreigner and being
		
00:42:27 --> 00:43:05
			suspicious and being dangerous and these sorts of things. So the temptation for them, it's all West
west from the shaytaan. But the temptation for them is to be like, Well, I don't want to be noticed
in that way, or I don't want to be kind of suspected of this sort of thing. And then Congress like
you and me, we can now listen, like there's no one more Estonian than you. And there's no one more
American than I am, you know, I was like, other than Native Americans, probably. And so yeah, I'm
gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna pray right here, and you're gonna have to deal with it. And, you know,
that's something that is, I think, really encouraging for all Muslims. Yeah, absolutely.
		
00:43:06 --> 00:43:30
			So, okay, we're going along, we're starting to get into that's the high school, the high school
phase, and we're starting to come along. You mentioned Medina, how did you even know that Medina was
an option? Why Medina? How did that whole process unfold? So as I was still in 11th grade, I had
become a Muslim. I think I'd set the shahada
		
00:43:31 --> 00:43:34
			April of that year, and just a couple of months later,
		
00:43:35 --> 00:43:37
			there was I went to the
		
00:43:39 --> 00:44:18
			stone and Islamic center which which had just been opened, but used to pray in some small apartment
before and just the center had opened and I met the the, the the Imam there, the the Mufti of the
stone in Islamic congregation. And mashallah, like, I felt really welcomed. Like, like, he prayed,
like, right next to me, there was some prayer or something. And then we sat down and like, you know,
we drank tea, and I felt like really like, I don't know, like, this is like a Mufti and like, you
know, he's giving me all this time and like, I felt like so special, like, I'm not gonna lie. And
		
00:44:19 --> 00:44:25
			he told me that there is there is some kind of like, Islamic seminar coming up in Poland.
		
00:44:26 --> 00:44:29
			It was just maybe a few days after
		
00:44:30 --> 00:44:45
			after meeting him or something. And I was like, okay, you know, I should go probably, I want to
learn more about my religion and why not? So I ended up going there. I met a brother there
		
00:44:46 --> 00:44:59
			who was studying already in Medina. And some some mache from from Saudi Arabia. Were also there. And
I that's the first time I really found out about the
		
00:45:00 --> 00:45:36
			Diversity and I knew that like, you know, I have to grab on to I want to you know, I have to apply
and make sure that I you know, I get in and, and hamdulillah after that I gathered the necessary
documents I applied with the help of the Mufti and hamdulillah at that year, there were four
Estonians that applied and three got accepted. So I was one of the three or so if anyone anyone
wants to become like you know, a student in Medina, you try to get Estonian citizen
		
00:45:37 --> 00:45:38
			you will get
		
00:45:41 --> 00:46:11
			like even even better, like some years like probably nobody applies even and we have like really few
people who are like applying so it's really easy to get in. Yeah, for those that don't know, you
know, the University of Medina Islamic University with prizes geographic diversity in its admissions
and so if you apply from a place that has very few people applying you're very likely to get in as
opposed to places that have a lot of applicants then obviously you're not as likely to get in
		
00:46:13 --> 00:46:13
			Absolutely.
		
00:46:15 --> 00:46:20
			So yeah, this is this is how I applied and handle I got accepted
		
00:46:22 --> 00:46:49
			as a plan B in case I would not you know, for what for whatever reason be able to travel or
something comes up now supplied in in a local university in Italian University. And I started
studying there actually, but just for a couple of months still till I was able to travel to Medina
mashallah I was okay so what let's let's transition to the medina phase.
		
00:46:51 --> 00:47:02
			What were your expectations going in? How was Medina surprising to you? How was that different from
what you expected? What were some of the things that amazed you and some of the things that maybe
disappointed you?
		
00:47:04 --> 00:47:05
			So it's a big question.
		
00:47:07 --> 00:47:09
			I think for me
		
00:47:10 --> 00:47:53
			you know, coming from this ball village where there's no Muslims around you know, the fact that
everyone is Muslim, you have massages everywhere, you have halal food everywhere. Like, this was
like, you know, just amazing and I always considered like, you know, Medina itself is like this
weird religious like Island, right, you know, with Mecca, for example, or maybe a couple of other
places in salary. And you have that university campus which is like this small island within that
island, which is like a bunch of like, you know, like really religious Muslims and like just living
there like amongst these brothers like handle like was like just coming from like this this small
		
00:47:53 --> 00:48:33
			village with no Muslims and going there being surrounded with Muslims from all over the world this
is this was also one of the most beautiful things like you could meet like brothers from you know,
anywhere basically like you know, even from countries that you would not imagine that had Muslims
there like some central American like island countries or like Papua New Guinea or something like
that, like countries like it's kind of like even that like just in itself was a beautiful
experience. And of course, I knew that you know, I was expecting like a really international
university but like actually being there and like praying next to the you know, brothers from all
		
00:48:33 --> 00:48:42
			you know, nationalities and countries it was just beautiful and being able to make friends with
those people in our like, you know, just talk to them like about their journey about
		
00:48:43 --> 00:48:50
			you know, about their life their country the Muslims their Islam there, et cetera. Like this was
really beautiful. And
		
00:48:52 --> 00:49:02
			yeah, I think that was one of the most positive aspects just being able to practice my religion so
freely so easily. And the remembers halala
		
00:49:03 --> 00:49:15
			as far as it is something I remember even now like when praying on those stairs like in those in
that high school, I remembered I always thinking to myself like one day inshallah this will get
easier to pass. Like it gets so much easier.
		
00:49:17 --> 00:49:34
			Was there anything that disappointed you about Medina? Was there anything that kind of took you by
surprise, that's a common thing that a lot of people because at the same time, it's, it's an amazing
thing to be obviously, Medina is, you know, even just religiously, you know, through the Hadith,
it's a it's a blessing place.
		
00:49:36 --> 00:49:43
			But sometimes we have an impression that everything's going to be easy, or that everybody's going to
be nice to us.
		
00:49:44 --> 00:49:49
			And obviously, that's not that's not the reality. So did you have any struggles in Medina or any
disappointments?
		
00:49:51 --> 00:50:00
			And yeah, I should be probably brutally honest here and like, say it as it is. Because sometimes we
have as you said, like people have like, in their mind that like
		
00:50:00 --> 00:50:17
			You know, Medina is dislike, you know, everyone is 100% practicing Muslim and nothing bad happens
ever. So for example, my scooter got stolen, and my, my bicycle, they tried to steal it, but they
couldn't break the lock. I was praying Asia, and I left my bicycle like with lock
		
00:50:18 --> 00:50:56
			locked up on a tree or something. And they had tried to like, break it, but they couldn't like it's
a bicycle, like, come on, like, it's what is it work like maybe like, I don't know, 200 rial or
something. And it's kind of like these things like they happen. But what people need to understand
that like you have, even in the in the prophets, Mohammed, Mohammed steim, Salah has always had such
people that are like, who weren't like religious who weren't practicing, maybe they were hypocrites,
maybe they were not like, you know, following Islam at all. And you always have these people,
there's nothing new about it. So you can't, you know, you can't be like to surprise, but it's better
		
00:50:56 --> 00:51:34
			to know that this might happen. Because some people they say that, like, you know, like in Islamic
countries, like you can, you know, you leave your car outside, you know, the keys with the keys, and
you know, this and that. And then somebody like takes that advice or like things that really works
like that, and it gets something stolen. Like, yeah, that's true, I had the benefit of some of my
mentors that helped me get some of the, you know, they would tell me all of the great things before
I got accepted. And then after I got accepted, they told me all the bad things. So that I was still
excited and motivated enough to want to go and apply. But then when I got there, I wasn't I wasn't
		
00:51:34 --> 00:51:44
			surprised by some of the hardship that was involved and the disappointment. Some people do get very
disappointed when they realize that it's not a there's not a fairy tale. There's no perfect place on
earth.
		
00:51:45 --> 00:52:21
			At least in that sense. What was your relationship like with your fellow students from either
Estonia or from other places? I know that Western students, one of the common things that we have to
navigate is sort of maybe a cliquish mentality. There's different students that fall into different
groups and they try to pull you off and you know, sit with the scholars don't sit with these
scholars be with these brothers don't be with these brothers. Did you have to face any of that? I
was mostly spared from that myself. Hamdulillah. But a lot of brothers from Europe do and North
America do have to deal with that did you have to deal with anything like that?
		
00:52:23 --> 00:52:43
			I experienced the fact that he had like some, you know, different groups of students, like some of
them, like, you know, don't want to hang out with with other groups because of their manhood or
something. And you have these, these things, but Alhambra, generally, I was also spread with spread
from that and hamdullah had, like some found some really, really amazing brother's
		
00:52:44 --> 00:52:51
			like, he had so much to learn from, and who just like in a really good company, like,
		
00:52:52 --> 00:53:21
			during those, those years there and, and, and handled with some of them, I assume, you know, stay in
touch. And even though we know we don't talk daily or weekly, but like they're like still really
important people in my life at that period, really, like you know, affected me a lot and like maybe
maybe even changed me in some ways. So in general, like yes, I have, you know, I can say the handle
I was spared from those six stuff but but it happens and
		
00:53:22 --> 00:53:28
			it's, it's a shame that it happens like especially like you know, in a place like that. And
		
00:53:30 --> 00:53:50
			the problem is also like you know, when they when they have it there they're always gonna carry this
that back in their home countries. Yes. And it's especially dangerous when you go back to like
really small community you can't you can't really afford division like you know, based on like, you
know, whether like, I didn't really put your hands like this earlier, if you put your hands to
decide during the prayer like
		
00:53:51 --> 00:54:11
			you have to work like together with people like as long as you know, they have like still like you
know, proper IP, I'm not saying like you know, you you're gonna like work together with our region
like you know, like let's you know, let's do everything like together but but but in general it's
really important to try to avoid this divisions because also in Estonia, unfortunately we have seen
how
		
00:54:13 --> 00:54:36
			with with some some light some division has happened and how it has affected the community some
people don't feel welcome to come to the center I like handled it has become better now but there
was a period where some people actually like avoided avoided the Islamic center when we only have
one in the capital or so. It's not like you have like an alternative like I'm gonna go to the masjid
now.
		
00:54:37 --> 00:55:00
			But But yeah, like this is really dangerous and unfortunate this this was also taking place in
Medina. Yeah. Subhan Allah yeah, there's there's always something that split over you know, and
that's the reality that people who have a sort of a partisan or a sectarian mentality, you know, it
usually just keeps on splitting and splitting and splitting. You know, you think that I'll once we
split
		
00:55:00 --> 00:55:17
			off from this one group that then we're going to be good and it very rarely works out that way.
Usually, then you find something else, and there's something else and there's something else.
There's no end to it. So that's really nice to hear that I wasn't the only one. That sort of steered
clear of all that sort of stuff while I was there.
		
00:55:18 --> 00:55:23
			What Which college did you choose to go into? How was the transition?
		
00:55:24 --> 00:55:34
			Going back from one thing that I like to ask people? What was there anything that you learned in
Medina? That
		
00:55:35 --> 00:55:55
			how I would say it, like maybe you had an impression about something within Islam, that Medina
completely changed for you, I'll give you an example of what I'm talking about, from my personal
experience. When by the time I arrived at Medina, I had this impression that if the scholars or the
mullah have different about
		
00:55:56 --> 00:56:36
			that, usually it was one of them had a lack of knowledge, maybe so and so didn't hear the Hadith.
Okay, and I was in the Kalia Sharia. So I quickly learned that that's not true that when or lemma
you know, we're talking about the old aroma different about something, it was almost always about
how to interpret the evidence or how to combine all of the evidence within the masala. Right. So
that was something that was a big transformation for me kind of how I viewed Islam and what I
thought I understood about Islam, in addition to telling us which school you ended up choosing, and
maybe why you chose that school, was there anything like that for you something that would that
		
00:56:36 --> 00:56:38
			Medina change your perspective about Islam?
		
00:56:41 --> 00:56:43
			I'm going to be again, brutally honest,
		
00:56:45 --> 00:56:54
			if that's what we like, had, it had like a really positive effect on my opinion. Because when I was
when I first became a Muslim,
		
00:56:55 --> 00:57:10
			the first maybe not even like the first first year or something, but at some point, I was kind of
drifting away to sort of like Hawaii mentality.
		
00:57:12 --> 00:57:20
			So Medina, in a way saved me from that. And even like I remember, like, even in during the first
		
00:57:21 --> 00:57:24
			first year, or two, in Medina
		
00:57:26 --> 00:58:08
			I had some arguments with some brothers because of my own, like, like values, Islamic values, that
actually turned out to be a bit extremist. So alhamdulillah Medina, like really like, this is really
like maybe the most important thing that I came back with, Allahu Allah only Allah knows that maybe
I would have found that also in Estonia, like the trip, but in my case, it was Medina. So sometimes
when I think about like, oh, like, you know, I wasted like a lot of my time there, etcetera. Like
maybe I didn't benefit like from all the classes they were should have been found. This is the most
important thing having like a sound upgrade and Alhamdulillah we had also even like in the bar had
		
00:58:08 --> 00:58:14
			in the language institute we had like a really great great the hate Beecher Khalid or dad he passed
away this year.
		
00:58:16 --> 00:58:16
			And
		
00:58:17 --> 00:58:25
			it's fun a lot. Like, like, just hearing like, you know, this strong, proper al Qaeda, which is not
like, you know,
		
00:58:27 --> 00:59:03
			it's not like liberal Islam, but it's not also like that, you know, the whole lot of extremism is
like, traditional conservative, like proper, like, you know, proper Islam and Alhamdulillah I came
back with that. And, you know, nobody's perfect and like, even though like, I also have, like, made
so many mistakes in my life Islamically and otherwise, of course, I've had, I've had this, like,
this foundation of al Qaeda that I believe that the handle has been, has been really good.
Mashallah, so, so which Kalia? Did you study in which which school? I went to Sharia?
		
00:59:05 --> 00:59:05
			So
		
00:59:08 --> 00:59:12
			So what inspired that choice? How did you go about that decision?
		
00:59:14 --> 00:59:22
			I was like, really, in between Dawa and Sharia. I was like, really like doubting which one would be
best best for me. But
		
00:59:23 --> 00:59:46
			I was thinking at the time that okay, like in Sharia probably, like, I'm going to be dealing with
like, different mosyle When I go back to my country, people are gonna ask about like, you know,
basically, she's more like, you know, like, like, about the Salah, about the booboo and like the
hustle etcetera, like all the different kinds of like, rulings, I thought that like, you know, this
would be more beneficial.
		
00:59:48 --> 00:59:59
			And that I could, like, you know, learn like, the ways of Darwin like you know, all that, like, you
know, what would you have like also like the heathen as you know, like, you know, some people think
that when you go to Medina and choose
		
01:00:00 --> 01:00:41
			between different careers, like when you go to Sharia, you're only going to learn like second solo.
Or you're going to go to like, like now I can only learn like, you know, the different like, sects
and like how to repeat them and like their hate etc. But alhamdulillah you know, in Medina, we have
like in different colleges, you you have like some part of the curriculum, which is shared between
the different colleges. So he's still in Sharia law. So you learn Quran you learn tafsir really
learn to hate, but just the emphasis is on solid. Yes. So that was my, my reason. So yeah, that very
similar thought process. And I asked some mentors, and they basically said, yeah, if you go into
		
01:00:41 --> 01:01:07
			Sharia, you will always be useful, because everybody always wants to know what to do. Alright, so
and I found that to be true. So now you, you came back. Okay, you're in Estonia. Tell us about sort
of, what are sort of the things that you see or observe in Estonia, the Muslim community? What are
sort of the challenges? What are some of the opportunities? Where do you see what what needs to be
done?
		
01:01:09 --> 01:01:22
			It's not that there's so much to be done, like, I don't even know where to start from. So maybe I
just explained what we have like, like, right now we have in the capital, we have the stone Islamic
Center,
		
01:01:23 --> 01:01:28
			which mostly does Juma prayers, but also like daily prayers.
		
01:01:29 --> 01:01:37
			Sometimes there's some classes organized. When I was living in the Capitol, I would sometimes also
give some classes there,
		
01:01:38 --> 01:01:39
			for kids and otherwise.
		
01:01:41 --> 01:02:16
			So first of all, there's there's a lack of like, Islamic education, to all different levels to do
children to do adults as well. And the problem is also like, there's so many different languages at
play here, like we have, we have a lot of people that are Muslims who are Russian speaking, because
of their ethnicity, or data or ethnicity. So they are mostly speaking Russian. So sometimes, you
need like classes in different languages. So this is this is one of the issues that makes it more
difficult, maybe
		
01:02:17 --> 01:02:19
			you need more staff, you need more teachers.
		
01:02:21 --> 01:02:59
			We also, I believe, we need a lot more Dawa to non Muslims as well. hamdulillah one thing we have,
one of the things we have going is that we have every now and then student groups non Muslim
students coming to visit the Islamic center, when they're Estonian speaking or mostly received them,
talk to them about Islam, the major like the main beliefs and rituals cetera sometimes they can see
us pray, when it's a prayer time. So handle lights, it's really good thing we have going and and
sometimes like the same teacher comes like, has been coming regularly every year, like with some
groups
		
01:03:01 --> 01:03:15
			handle, this is a good thing. But in general, like Dawa to non Muslims other than those student
groups, like it's, it's really like lacking like, there is almost none of it. So Alhamdulillah I
hope that we can like
		
01:03:16 --> 01:03:32
			maybe maybe work together with with the Dow organization or euro I got in touch with the head of the
Europe pm project. And and hopefully inshallah after the World Cup, they will have more time and
maybe maybe early next year
		
01:03:33 --> 01:03:48
			they will be able to also like visit Estonia help us get get the dowel going in a more organized
systematic manner. I have done like some of these our work before as well like especially during the
summer breaks.
		
01:03:50 --> 01:04:34
			But, but it was like really like just, you know, pretty occasional and really not systematic but but
I did enjoy it. I did enjoy like, you know, keeping the non Muslims on the street the opportunity to
come and talk about Islam or give out some Islamic Islamic reading materials. But there's so much we
need we need also like some kind of Islamic daycare or nursery that that should be priority because
Islamic school is like a much bigger step with much more organizing and much more people and much
more funding. But I think maybe starting from like a daycare where Muslim kids can you know grow up
in a Islamic environment because of course all of this you know, it's going to affect when you put
		
01:04:34 --> 01:04:39
			your kids to do a non Muslim kindergarten and they're gonna you know
		
01:04:40 --> 01:04:59
			be with the with the other kids and sing all the songs and like read things that maybe are like
straight goes up against the Hadees and like it's gonna affect obvious it's gonna affect like, you
know, during those years and after that it's school and so this is one of the major things
especially because the Muslims
		
01:05:00 --> 01:05:03
			mean it is growing it means also that there is more children and
		
01:05:05 --> 01:05:20
			spinal like I really, really hope that something Something will something good will, will come in
the future regarding these these issues, inshallah Tada, sounds like you've got a lot of promising
things opening up. We're running out of time, just a couple more questions.
		
01:05:21 --> 01:06:04
			Are you employed as an imam currently in Estonia? No, I, I used to work for the Estonian standard
congregation right after coming back from from Medina. Okay. It was also like, a time where I was
like, you know, I didn't really know what to do and like, I had some like, issues I was dealing with
and, and like, it was really confusing time. And I think people faced that a lot when they come back
from the dinar podium or something like students, they like, you know, they become like, pizza
delivery guys like after like, you know, graduating luxury or something. So it's, it's, it's really
like, can be difficult. But I was working for them. Like, maybe like a couple of years. I was mostly
		
01:06:04 --> 01:06:14
			doing like Islamic translations, like the Friday headbands, some other things, some, some classes
for something grayed out something for kids.
		
01:06:16 --> 01:06:36
			But yeah, now I haven't been employed. But we we started like, recently in a really small town, next
to, like, 20 minute drive from, from the village I live in. And it's a really small community that
we started like, Friday prayers, is three brothers and one older lady.
		
01:06:38 --> 01:06:51
			But I think there's like there's a special beauty in it starting off with a really small community.
And especially because Inshallah, I'm probably going to stick to the staying in this region for
		
01:06:52 --> 01:07:31
			for like, the next years, next few years, at least. So it's gonna be really nice, like to see if we
can make it grow, if we can, you know, make this better, this really small community, where everyone
knows each other. And we know, you know, even if you just meet on a weekly basis, just read Juma
prayer, you still will, you know, ask about how you're doing what's going on in your life. Instead
of like, a community of like, let's say like, 200 300 people, like most of the faces, or, you know,
maybe unknown to you. And not to say that it's a bad thing that the community in any capitalist
growing like that a handle, it's a beautiful thing. But there is also like, a special beauty to
		
01:07:31 --> 01:07:54
			really small, tiny community. Yeah. Mashallah. And starting something from the beginning, when you
start from scratch, you know, like you said, you get to watch it grow, and you get to sort of maybe
leave them a greater impact than something where it's been going in a certain direction for a while,
and you have to try to step in and, you know, make changes sometimes, out there communities have
their own momentum.
		
01:07:56 --> 01:08:07
			And their own trajectory, it can be, it can be difficult. So, that's, that's very exciting. Do you
have any final thoughts or comments or anything you want to share before we, before we wrap up
		
01:08:10 --> 01:08:16
			pieces of advice for anybody doing Dow or going to Medina, or coming back from Indiana, or
		
01:08:17 --> 01:08:47
			at the I think maybe I would give, like more general advice. Like, I really like to be like, you
know, sincere and honest with my experiences and like my life so that other can others can benefit
from it. And not to like, you know, cover all the negative not to hide it away, but to learn from
him that like, you know, shut us up that other people will not do the same mistakes. And one of the
things that like I've been like, especially during the last few months, I've been experiencing,
like, I've been looking more back at my life,
		
01:08:48 --> 01:09:33
			including the medina period. And the years after that, when I came back to Estonia, and there wasn't
really active, like Islamic villages doing something here and there. And I feel that like, spawn
like this life is really short. I'm about a third, about to turn 32 now, and I look back at my 20s
and like, they're gone like that. So if anyone's listening to this, who's still in the 20s or even
the 30 is like, you know, don't don't wait to get active with something like find one, even just one
small thing that you can do for Islam, Islamic community and do it sincerely do it for do it for
Allah and inshallah we you will get reward from that. Don't Don't wait. Or don't make up excuses
		
01:09:33 --> 01:09:59
			that oh, you can't do like you know that you don't have the resources but you know, find that you
know, just one small thing you can do like maybe like, you know, a new Muslim convert in your in
your area, like teaching how to pray, like teaching like small things teaching voodoo. It's kind of
like the reward you will get this amazing. Maybe you have like one thing I've done also like I've
visited like Muslim prisoners one One summer I was doing some Juma.
		
01:10:00 --> 01:10:29
			but they're like giving classes and maybe there's like a prison in your in your local area maybe
there's not an imam there and and you can just visit just once a month would give so much to those
people they're like God that one single person one single inmate there's always something we can do
and like you don't have to have like, you know this Medina education or whatever, there's so much
every single Muslim can do and you just have to find that that one thing that works for you, but
don't wait Life is too short.
		
01:10:31 --> 01:10:36
			Well, that is beautiful advice. May Allah reward you and I will try to put it
		
01:10:37 --> 01:11:08
			into practice myself. I hope everybody viewing those to Bill Murray and thank you so much for
joining us today. It was a lovely conversation. I'm pleased to know you. And I hope inshallah we'll
have future opportunities to collaborate and keep the discussion going. Lot of coffee. Exactly
hiring a bottle of liquor in Miami and I really hope we can stay in touch and I really thank you for
this opportunity as well. Barnum love, Allah subhanaw taala Hello, hello crescendo, under under
stuff, whatever, whatever we like. So I'm going to come off to La