Channel: The Deen Show
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law making peace be with you. Thank you for tuning into the show, if you didn't know already peace be unto you is a greeting of all the prophets including the mighty messenger, the one that is so beloved to our hearts. No Muslim is a Muslim unless he believes in Jesus Christ peace be upon we are not the Antichrist. But if we don't believe in Jesus, we cannot be Muslim is simply one who surrenders and submits to the one God and we are going to be talking about Jesus peace be upon him in this episode, and we're going to be giving some some of the top five reasons according to Dr. Lawrence Brown, on why Jesus peace be upon him is not. God never said are claimed to be God, nor the
Begotten Son of God. Dr. Lawrence Brown has a PhD in religious studies he has a DD Dr. divinity. He was a former atheist who tried to be very hard to be a Christian. It just didn't fit. It didn't make sense this Trinity and all the other
all the other factors that makes one a Christian nowadays, it just didn't make sense. And it became a Muslim is here on the deen show to give us his top five when we come back, sit tight, don't go nowhere.
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Salaam Alaikum. Peace be with you.
Dr. Lawrence brown back on the deen show. How was your trip over here? Long, long, long, but not as long as we didn't have jet airplanes. Yeah. Thank you for finding the time to be with us here on the deen show. We're gonna like to have you back so we can continue talking about Jesus who is so beloved to our hearts. In this week's episode, we're going to be talking about some of your top five reasons why Jesus peace be upon him is not the be gutten
Son of God, is that correct? That's correct. And then we'll do future episodes, inshallah God Willing about some of these very other important topics about Jesus. So let's start off here. Let's start off with
you know, before I go on, hold on, I just want to I want to make a note that, you know, I know this might be a little bit sensitive to some people, and we're not trying to hurt nobody's feelings. We just want to present a different proposition, one that we believe is the truth. So I just wanted to make that that. That note before we continue on, yeah, I don't know if you wanted to add something to that. Yeah, I guess I think I would, and that is that we as Muslims, we revere Jesus Christ, we will follow his teachings. But the point here is that you do not draw closer to a person you do not draw closer to God by exceeding
exceeding the reality. Okay, what do I mean by that? What I mean is that Jesus Christ called himself the Son of Man. Others called him the Son of God. Okay, now if he is identifying himself as a man, you do not you are not going to endear yourself to the profit by making him out to be more than what he actually was.
Look a good analogy is is like this. I was present once where a family member was have celebrating a birthday. They had asked for a wallet. Okay, so just you know, his wife, you know his wife, What can I get you this year Dear Sir, I would like a wallet. But I would like it this way and that way you know how I mean a wallet for us is like a purse for a woman. I mean, we want it we wanted our particular way. Did we know what we like? But she had found something that she liked better. Right? And he said I wanted this way you know a bifold not a trifold black non Brown with a you know this, you know, this number of pockets and for the credit cards and so on so forth. He knew
Exactly what he wanted. But she went, she saw what she liked, she liked this better. And that's what she bought for him. Okay, cost more money was a lot more fancy. She got it from New York City instead of from, you know,
the little town where they lived and so on and so forth. But in the end, that wasn't what he asked for. Okay? Despite, despite the fact that she had gone out of her way to do you know, something far, far better than what she thought he wanted. He had no use for it. He got upset when he saw it. Because he said, I told you, I don't want it like this. I don't care if it costs five times more than what I asked for. It could cost 10 times more. It's not what I wanted. It's not what Okay, now it's the same same way in dealing with with religion. Okay, if the Prophet if the Prophet is saying, I'm a man, I'm not, I'm not the Son of God, and yet you elevate him and status to the Son of God or
you make him divine in your own mind. This is not going to win you points in the hereafter. So, so the point is, we are focusing upon what Jesus Christ actually said, who He really said he was, and, and that suffices for us because that is is what God sufficed to send us in His message. Now that is a very important point. And that's out of the love for our brothers in humanity. We don't want all their good deeds to go to waste and setting up a partner. giving those divine rights either to God or setting up a co equal partner to God This can lead you in the Hellfire Forever, forever. So sometimes you got to keep your love in check. Yeah, sometimes you gotta keep your love and check you
know, a strong man hugging his wife. I mean, if he really loves her too much, I mean, he can you know, I love you so much crunch, crunch, crunch. You know, I mean, you can hurt a person. Yeah, you can hurt a person and in the same way when it comes to religion, you can hurt yourself by exceeding the boundaries of what is accepted by God. Yes, yes, yes, definitely. And that's why we're here. So let's go Dr. Lawrence Brown has a DD doctor and Divinity PhD in religious studies here on the deen show to give us his top five reasons why Jesus is not the Begotten Son of God number five.
Talk to me okay. Number five. If you ask most Christians, if you believe in this doctrine to begin with, you know, do you believe that Jesus Christ was begotten not made?
Most of them on the surface full say Yeah, well, okay, that's part of my religion. Yes. But do you believe that?
Most will start to backpedal? If you go look it up in Merriam Webster's dictionary, the gotten the definition is to procreate as the Father, it implies the carnal element of sex. Okay. Now this, this means that you are actually having a challenge the person say, Are you saying that you actually believe that God has sex with Mary, the mother of Jesus? Is that what you are saying when you say be gotten not made? I mean, 99.9%, they'll say no, no, of course not. I mean, they will realize the absurdity of that claim, the blasphemy of that claim. And so they will start to backpedal. And you'll say, Well, if, if this is what the garden means, and you're admitting that, you don't believe
that, that it involves procreation as the father as the definition of the word, the Why do you believe in it, and from there, you will find people will begin to soften their stance. So that's number five. That's the number five Reason number five, we're going to continue move on time is short, we don't got but only a little bit of time, we're gonna cover all these things. So we're gonna move on to number four of Dr. Lawrence Brown, top five reasons why Jesus is not to be gotten a son of God. Number four.
Give it to us. Number four, it is an evolved doctrine. Okay. It was a doctrine that was derived at the Council of Nicea in the year 325. It was later placed into the Ask Nassim creed ganados, who is the patriarch, Patriarch of Constantinople, when he heard the Council of Nicea his
statement. In this regard, he actually pronounced it the words of a drunken man, the athanasian Creed, in part, it reads, quote, God from God, light from light, True God from true God, be God not made one in being with the Father. If you really sit down and have a heart to heart conversation with yourself, you might find yourself agreeing with gladius and saying, these were the words of a drunken man. Now, we don't like to be offensive and saying the sounds. You know, I mean, this. This sounds like the ramblings of a drunken man. But what we are saying is that, for somebody who sits down and just analyzes these words, with an open heart and an open mind in terms of whether they
really makes sense to him, the vast majority of mankind are going to say, No, no, I, you know, I can't accept that. It just
Doesn't make sense. We went from number five to number four of the top five reasons why Jesus peace be upon him who is beloved to our hearts mighty messenger of God never claimed to be God never said he was God is not God, why he's not God with Dr. Lawrence Brown, we wrote back with number three do not go anywhere.
I don't say to people, I used to be a Christian, I still carry the values and principles of loving Jesus Christ and perhaps maybe more than most Christians. So I think I got the best out of Christianity by becoming Muslim.
So one of the things that you can enjoy without drinking a sip of alcohol, that is the same thing. It's not an obstacle. It's not something that cause people to get completely desperate and start living their lives. No, it shouldn't be a motivation. It's only one life that you're going to live in. So you've got to do it.
I am not afraid.
I am not afraid to stand.
I'm not afraid.
I'm not afraid.
I'm not afraid.
Back here on the dean show, and we're giving you the top five reasons Dr. Brown's top five reasons why Jesus peace be upon him is not the Begotten Son of God. We went for five, four. Let's go to number three. key takeaway. Number three. In Psalms two, seven, David is is spoken about in these terms. quote, The Lord has said to me, You are my son today I have forgotten you. Are we talking about Jesus Christ? No. Talking about David psalms? Two, seven. Okay, so the point is, now the doctrine has to be gotten not made, is not just that Jesus Christ was allegedly be gotten not made? No, it's that Jesus Christ was the only begotten Son of God, who gotten and not made, but the only
one. And yet here we find in the same book, the Bible and Psalms, chapter two, verse seven, we find that it states clearly, quote, The Lord has said to me, You are my son, today I have forgotten you. You are my son today I have forgotten you. How can you have Jesus Christ being the only begotten Son of God? When you have David many, many, many generations before? allegedly having been told you are my son today I have begun.
So is it safe to say that if you look deeper into the Bible, that the Bible has sons by the tongues have heard this said before? Is this true? Yeah, actually, I wasn't even going to go into that. But you find many passages speaking of the sons of God, and
and the children of God, and so on. So, yes, sons of God was actually a metaphorical term, not a literal term. It didn't mean literally a son of God. It was, it was a metaphor. In fact, all of the Jews considered themselves children of God, sons and daughters of God, that was the status they conceived for themselves. It was a metaphorical issue, not a literal one, hold on, hold on, but they say no, for Jesus, it's a capital S, what do you got to say? What I have to say is that there's nothing to support that the manuscripts from which the Bible or is translated, both in the Hebrew in the Aramaic, and in the Greek, there was no capitalization of any of these. Whenever you read the
Bible, and you see any letter capitalized, even the letters at the beginning of a sentence, those letters were not capitalized in the manuscripts from which the Bible was translated. The Bible is translated from a body of manuscripts right now we have 5400 manuscripts, none of them have capitalization. So the capitalization is something that people have put in and in some cases, they put it in as a device to emphasize what they want it to emphasize, but that is not being faithful to the Scripture, not being faithful at all. Okay, so we got to be sincere, and we got to really want to do God's will. We can't just do things and just make it fit because it fits our desires. Well,
you remember how we were talking in a previous session about how a lot of people get turned off to religion because they see people playing with religion. This is one of the ways in which people play with religion. They try to make it to be more or less than what they want it to be. They add what is not there or they take away what is there and this is one of those cases.
is where they are adding something that is not there, namely, namely capitalization, or special special usage of particular words, you're talking about capitalization. We've talked about 543. Let's go to the number two reason for why Jesus Christ is not the Begotten Son of God in a bigot not made sense is that in the Bible, the word that is translated to only be gotten monotonous, m o n o g s, this is the word that is translated to only begun we were on number two now we're on number two. So you get we went from 543. And now this is the number two
reason why Jesus peace be upon him is not God. And this is related to what we were just talking about, which is why I'm slipping in there. You know, the, this word monogamous is found nine times in the Bible, okay? Three times it's found in Luke, you'll find it in 712 842 and 938. Okay, in all three of those passages, it does not speak of Jesus Christ was speaking of other individuals. Okay, now this is the same word. When you find it in john, it identifies Jesus Christ has only begun. But when this same word is used in Luke, regarding other individuals, guess what? It's not translated only begun.
Now, why is that? Again, this is we were just talking about how people kind of add what they want or take away what they what they don't want.
This is this is an example where there's an inconsistency in how the word is translated. And you have to ask yourself why this word is found, like I said, nine times in the Bible three times in Luke, in all three of those times, it speaks of individuals other than Jesus Christ, and it does not identify them as only bigger than five times. It's found in john john four times in the Gospel of john, one time in the epistles of john. Okay, in the first epistle of john. In those five instances, it speaks of Jesus Christ as only begun.
The ninth time, that's the kicker, Hebrews 1117 in Hebrews 1117. What is the what is the word apply to the a word is pi to Isaac? Isaac is monogamous.
Now, why is that important?
reason that's important is because Ishmael was born 14 years before Isaac.
Okay, Abraham, his first son was Ishmael. When Isaac was born, Ishmael was 14 years old. How could Isaac be the only begotten son of Abraham? When Ishmael was born 14 years before?
It's not possible? Not possible. Okay. And if you if you question if you say, Okay, well, Ishmael wasn't really Abraham's son. Right? Some people say that some people say, okay, Abraham, second wife was wasn't really a wife. You have to just go back to the Bible. If you read the Bible, it says that Sarah gave Hagar to Abraham, as a wife, polygamy was permitted at that time, it was allowed. polygamy was the standard of the time. That's why you find David that's why you find Solomon was so many wives. polygamy was allowed. Okay. And, and if you question whether he was the son, just regenesis, 1611, regenesis, 16 1517 717 23 and 1725. And there are more passages. Why do you read
those passages? Because in those passages, God recognized Isaac, excuse me, God, God recognized Ishmael as Abraham's son. Okay. So as I said, if God is recognizing Ishmael, as Abraham's son, 14 years before Isaac, then how can Isaac be the only begotten son? And yet, that is the word to identify him, monogamous. So what we're finding is that word monogamy is in Luke, in three places, when when it's applied to other individuals. It's Miss translated in Hebrews 1117, when it's talking about Isaac, that simply cannot be only begun, because he was not the only begotten son of Abraham.
Now for the layman, that was number two, from five more to go to number one for the layman who doesn't know much of these passages. He doesn't know much of the Bible, he believes in God, he knows this doesn't make sense.
To bring it home. I mean, what does someone and I'm sure you've had a lot of discourse and dialogue with people who believe this, but have you ever asked them what do you mean when you say God had a son because we know that, you know, cats have kittens, cows have calves? You know, what is God if he had a son is that a baby God? Is that a number two, God, how do they make sense of it? What are they actually saying? You know, here's where the personal religion comes in. Because people just explained it in different ways. I think if most people
are honest with themselves, they don't really, they don't really understand the concept because you have to remember, in the Trinity in the concept of the Trinity, the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit, the teaching is not just that these three individuals exist, but that they are co equal, co eternal and substantial. Okay? That means that they are okay in saying that they are co eternal. All three of them are eternal. And yet, if you're saying this is the Father, and this is the son, how can a son be eternal if it comes from the Father? This was this was an early argument by the Unitarian priest areas, who basically said if you're going to call him the Son, you can't call him eternal.
Because the sun comes from the Father. Okay? How can they be con substantial of the same substance? And how, you know, how can they be co equal when one is praying to to the other? Jesus Christ was praying to God? So how can you say these two are equal?
I mean, if you have the same powers, if you have godly powers, you don't need to pray to anybody. Because what is the purpose of prayer? The purpose of prayer is to ask God to do something for you.
And if you have these powers yourself, you don't need to ask God to do something for you just famine, it's done. Okay, so when you really get into it, most people, most people just even if they don't admit it with their words, at least when they go home and think about it, they realize Yeah, something something doesn't quite fit. You got to be sincere, you got to be sincere, sincere, with yourself sincere with the one who knows the hearts the Creator of the heavens and earth We'll be right back with number one reason why Jesus peace be upon him is not the Begotten Son of God right back.
Do not kill a woman. Do not kill a child Do not
you know going to different religious leaders and Islam Hinduism, forms of Christianity. I even ran into people from the Nation of Islam.
Do not kill an animal do not cut a tree down. Do not do water do not burn their homes.
Back here on the deed show Dr. Lawrence brown d d, Dr. And divinity PhD in religious studies trying very hard to be a Christian you went from atheism to Christianity to Islam, people go to the deen show.com, to see the other shows and to see how you accepted the world's fastest growing way of life in the world today. Yes, most misunderstood is the way of life of all the messengers of God, Islam that complete and total submission, acquiring peace by submitting your self entirely to the one guy this is Islam. And a Muslim is one who does the action of Islam. Now tell us we went from 5432 and give us the number one
reason why Jesus peace be upon him. That mighty messenger of God was not never claimed to me never said, Never was the began Son of God, talk to us. Okay, well, I'd ask for a drumroll but lacking one.
The number one reason is, look, don't listen to me. Don't listen to him. We were just talking about how you were saying make it simple. A lot of people, you know, when they hear the whole explanation, they just want it made simple for them. So I'll make it simple for you. Don't listen to any of us. You know who you should listen to? If you're a Christian, listen to your Bible. That's all I ask you to do. Listen to your Bible. Why? Because the Revised Standard Version, the New Revised Standard Version, the New International Version, the good news Bible, the new English Bible, the Jerusalem Bible, and many others have recognized the force of the arguments that I have given today. And they
have removed this from their own Bibles. If you go to read those Bibles, and the New Revised Standard Version, a New International Version of the largest selling Bibles, and and and the most, the most scholastic Bibles in the history of mankind. And they have removed this from their text because they realize it is illegitimate. So like I said, if you're Christian, you don't need to trust me. Trust your own Bible. And you will find that the biblical scholars themselves have removed this from the biblical text. In those Bibles I quoted and many others it no longer says forgotten not made it not no longer says only begotten Son, that has been removed.
They recognize that it's not valid. You should recognize it's not valid. Also, the person says, No, no, no, no, I grew up on the King James Version. That's all I go by what you got to say. King James version was written in 1611. Okay, that's 400. That's 400 years old.
Now, I understand you might like the way it's written, but there were many texts many biblical texts discovered after that
The most, the earliest biblical texts ever discovered with a Codex vaticanus, and the Codex Sinaiticus, and those were discovered after the King James version was written. So that is new information, not only new information, those are the earliest biblical manuscripts that that the Bible can be translated from. And that gives us the most reliable source for information for the Bible. And that information was missing when the new king when the King James version was translated. So if you want if you want the best information, the most, the most accurate translation of the Bible, you have to go to a Bible that was was agreed upon by Ecumenical Council meeting, it
was agreed upon by a coalition of
Christian Christian groups, and that is the New Revised Standard Version, we only have a minute left, you still love Jesus, you're not a Christian anymore. And people can see our other show that we did, comparing how Muslims really follow Christ more than the modern Christians today. And how he worship, his mannerisms and all these other details. Tell us now for the person who really has an attachment to Jesus, you just broke it down five top reasons why he's not the Begotten Son of God, not God, none of any of these things. So who was he briefly described? And where does the person go from here?
Oh, quite simply, Jesus Christ was exactly what he said he was he was a man, he was a prophet bearing revelation from God. He was sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. He was he was there to bring them back from their deviation and to provide a revelation, which would keep people upon the correct path. But I tell you what, I was just talking with a taxi driver the other day, we were driving down a long road. And we were having just this discussion. He was Catholic, I'm Muslim. And I said, You know what? It's like, it's like this road. I said, this is the path. The Jews were on this path. The Christians were on this path. And the Muslims are at the end of this path. The
Jews, they pulled over in park with Moses, and they said, No, they won't. They won't accept Jesus Christ, they won't accept john the baptist, okay. So they just pulled over early in part, that's where they stopped. The Christians continued on with john the baptist, and with Jesus Christ, and they stopped there. And they said, This suffices for us and they pulled over and they stopped, okay, and they were happy with their position. But if you want to get to the end of the road, you have to go with the final predicted Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him. So it's not it's not a question necessarily of being upon the wrong path. Sometimes, sometimes, even if you're on the right path,
it's a question of taking it all the way to the end. So if you if you truly love Jesus, you will you will believe in Him as as he taught us to believe in him. And one of the things that he taught was that there was a final profit coming. We can talk about that in a later session. If you love Jesus, you will look to that final prophet, you will pray to God to guide you to the religion of truth. And when you find that Prophet, final prophet, you will accept him and the revelation with which he came. We as Muslims believe that as Mohammed, Revelation is the Holy Quran, and that is why we have accepted Islam. People who want to continue on further maybe dialoguing talking with you, how can
they get ahold of you and also to read some of your books that you discussed in more detail? My my books are on my website. So along with my articles, my conversion story, basically more than you would want to know about me. My websites are level truth.com le ve l truth tr u th calm. And eight scroll.com eight, th th scroll, spr o l l.com. Thank you very much, God Almighty, the creator Allah reward you for being with us once again. Thank you. I mean, and that's it for another episode of the deen show. That was the top five reasons why Jesus peace be upon them cannot be never was the Begotten Son of God. God doesn't have sons or daughters. God doesn't walk the earth. You can't take
his picture doesn't have an area code. He's the creator of all that exists. He's one and alone worthy of worship. And Jesus worship the One God Moses did Abraham and the last and final messenger peace be upon the Prophet Mohammed, peace be upon him. We don't worship Muhammad. We just follow his way, the same way you would have followed Jesus and Moses, they were teachers teaching us how to submit how to worship, how to become the best human being that you can become. And it's not by following your desires that's by doing God's will. And that's Islam. Peace acquired by submitting to the one God and a Muslim is one who does this action. We'll see you next time here in deed show
until then, peace be unto you.