Channel: The Deen Show
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Bismillah Alhamdulillah Salam Alaikum peace be unto you. Thank you for tuning in to another episode of the deen. So Deen Show. Today the topic we're going to be discussing Jesus peace be upon him or Mohammed. If you had to take a choice, who would you pick? Would you pick the mighty messenger Jesus, or Mohammed but in Islam, which simply means to surrender to the will of the One God?
We picked both. And that's what we will be discussing here on the deen show today we make it simple. We make it very simple. We accept all the messengers, and Jesus peace be upon them as one of the mightiest messengers of God. And the last and final sentence, messengers sent to mankind the problem on peace be upon them and to discuss more of this here on the deen show today is Dr. Gerald Dirks, former Christian Deacon preacher, graduated from the prestigious Harvard University. We'll be right back with more here on the deed show. This is the thing that
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Salam Alaikum Peace be with you. Dr. Gerald Dirks, how are you hummed a little I am fine, and peace be upon you, brother. How have you been since the last time you visit us here at the studio? Ah, you know, praise God. Thanks be to God, everything has been going well, yeah, for some of the audience that you know, you have your own section there at the deen, show calm, they can go and kind of read your biography, to get to know a little bit about you. We've done several shows a few in the past, they can go there and also watch your story. But just to bring some people up to speed. Can you tell us in a minute, just a little bit about yourself? Well, I did my undergraduate work at Harvard. And
then I received my masters of divinity at Harvard as well. And then went on from there and received my master's and doctorate in clinical psychology from the University of Denver. Yeah. So we like to consider you I know you're humble. And this is one of the teachings of Islam that we need to be humble. But you know, you know the Bible quite well, many would consider you a Bible scholar. And we're talking to you on this very important topic. Now we know that God Almighty throughout time has sent messengers, and it is for the human being after the messenger has delivered an extensive amount of proof that he is a messenger, and has come with that same message, not something weird, you know,
with one messenger, God tells you to, you know, worship the sun, another one, the moon, then one contradicts all these but the consistent message has been the same.
Two points of the message, you have always remained the same. One is that there is one God and one God only. And only that one, God has to be worse, that's been said. And the second message is, there will be a day of accountability. So they all warned and taught about this. So these two things, right? Yeah. Now in Islam, we have this concept of progressive revelation. Yes. So that the revelation originally given to Prophet Adam, may be somewhat different than that later given to Prophet Noah. Yes, which in turn might be somewhat different from that later given to Prophet Abraham, Prophet Moses, Prophet, Jesus, Prophet, Muhammad, peace be upon them all. This is not that
in any way, shape or form, God has changed his mind. Yeah. But rather that the revelation is being paced according to the spiritual development of humanity, or to that of a particular group of people. Now, some people will deny Jesus, peace be upon you. And some people will go ahead and deny Muhammad, and some people will try to put them up against each other. Where do we stand?
Well, you know, back in grade school, we used to have these multiple choice tests. Yeah, you know, it's a, it's B, it's C, it's none of the above. It's all of the above. In Islam, it's all of the above all of the above, we accept all of the prophets and messengers of God, that we recognize them all equally. Yeah. Now, what's the unique thing about Islam? That and how would you if someone came to you and they, they, they approach you and they say, Okay, well, Jesus, you know, he was, he did all these miracles and wonders, and he proved that he was a prophet, how could someone be sure that Muhammad peace be upon him was a messenger of God? Well, I think the place to start is read the
Quran, read the Quran, read a good English translation of the Quran. And and there are several aspects one can take care and reading the Quran. One is one can look at the common ground. That is to be
Between the message in the Quran, and much of the spiritual and ethical teaching that's to be found in the Bible, again, messengers of the same God.
The second aspect, though, is to look at the Quran and say, you know, how could this have been known by a seventh century? Arab? Whom we are told by all accounts was illiterate? Yeah, you know, there's too much knowledge here. Now, are there some references in the Bible that referred to another prophet coming after Jesus? Oh, sure. There, there are references. We look in the New Testament. There's references to prophets after Jesus. And the New Testament in the book of Acts, various people are called prophets.
We are told that, you know, people came up to john the baptist. And they said to him, are you Elijah return? Are You the Messiah? Are you the Prophet yet to come? Yeah, you know, so there are references in the Bible to additional profits. Now, how would you refute someone who says you know what these references are talking about the Holy Spirit, not actual profit coming? You know? Well, again, if you read the New Testament, that Holy Spirit was already present, he was already present. Sure. Yeah. So that, that squashes that argument? Yeah. The Holy Spirit was already present. During the earthly ministry of Jesus, the Holy Spirit was present. Why do you think some people have a hard
accepting that there can be another messenger or there is another messenger that came after Jesus peace be upon because I mean, it's apparent I mean, that right now, if you wanted to follow Jesus peace be upon life to a tee, you couldn't do it? Because Is it true? You the Bible scholar tell us that, you know, you know this book well, that we don't have the original teachings of Jesus.
Everything we have, I was quoting Bart Ehrman from one of his books reading misquoting Jesus, he said, and this is, you know, who he is. We don't have a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of anything original. Is this true? Well, we certainly don't have anything original. Yeah. And if you look here, you know, many Christians are familiar with what's called a red letter edition. Yes. of the Bible, where the supposed words of Jesus are printed in red.
You know, maybe a lot of that was actually said by Jesus. Yeah. Maybe some of it wasn't. The bottom line is we really don't know. You know, we don't have provenance Yes. For the sayings of Jesus.
That is really sound and, and takes us back. But it's is this coincidence that this man, Muhammad peace be upon him who didn't call people to worship himself, who, you know, was calling people to the same message of Jesus worship one God, also what you talked about the Day of Judgment, the Hereafter, and his life is more authentically recorded than any person in history? Is this true? Certainly recorded in detail far surpassing that that we have of any of the prior profits of Noah? I mean, if you wanted to follow Abraham to a tee, yeah. Can you do it? I mean, from A to Z, the way you can prop Wow, I mean, you can construct or attempt to construct a biography of Prophet Abraham
and in fact, I have written a book on it by combining Judeo Christian and Islamic sources, but the day today sort of detail that we have about Prophet Muhammad in his life now we don't have that on others before we go to break so is there anyone from your studies that there that you have a person's more of his detail accounts of his life than Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him? Not in terms of any of the prophets Now certainly, Prophet Muhammad is unique in terms of having that level of detail recorded about his life? Okay, let's take a break and we'll be right back with more here on the deen show.
He is that you say that you do not believe in Jesus, you have stepped outside of Islam. You cannot be a Muslim and attended our faith to believe in in love Jesus Christ.
I would say this thing that you just told me, it's not in the Scripture. And they would say a marginal note added by a scribe. Yeah, okay. We know that. And I'd be thinking if you know, this is not the Bible. Why are you preaching it as if it's gospel truth.
Back here with Dr. Gerald Derks, discussing Jesus or Mohammed, we pick them both. Absolutely. Now, let's talk about their message. Let's talk about the simplicity of the life that Jesus peace be upon him live and what he teach preached and what he called the people to
maybe before we even get to the message, yeah, there's certain points I think we need to highlight in terms of the commonality that exists. Please talk between the teachings about the life of Jesus peace be upon him, both in Christianity and Islam. Yes.
Both religions proclaim the virgin birth of Jesus, both of them both we do as Muslims, we proclaim it. But for us the virgin birth is an act of miraculous creation. It's not an act of divine beginning. Yes. We both believe that Jesus performed many miraculous healings and cures. Muslims believe this. We believe that Jesus ascended into heaven.
We also believe that Jesus will return Yes, there are numerous sayings of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him that says, Jesus will return in the end times, will slay the Antichrist, and establish an earthly rule. All of these things being also talked about within traditional Christianity.
But the message that they both brought, talk about the message, there are some beautiful examples of and I'm going to just read this to make sure I don't misquote anything. Yes. But let's take an example. This is from
the New Testament from the book of Matthew, the sixth chapter, verses one through four, in which Jesus reportedly, is warning people to stay away from false piety when it comes to charity. And let me just read the words, beware of practicing your piety before others, in order to be seen by them. For then you have no reward from your Father in heaven. So whenever you give homes, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues, and in the streets, so that they may be praised by others, Truly I tell you, they have received their reward. But when you give arms, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your arms may be done in secret, and
your Father who sees in secret will reward you from the sixth chapter, Matthew. Now the Islamic parallels This is from the Quran, second chapter, verse 264. Oh, you who believe, cancel not your charity, by reminders of your generosity, or by injury, like those who spend their substance to be seen of men, but believe neither in God nor in the last day,
or the saying of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him. When God created the earth, the angels asked if anything, in God's creation was stronger than wind?
And he replied, Yes, the son of Adam, who gives charity with his right hand, while concealing it from his left. That's reported tirmidhi. same message that we see Jesus reportedly preaching Yes, in Matthew, that we see in the Quran that we see in the sayings of Prophet Muhammad.
one that that really stresses,
what is often considered to be the central part of Jesus's message among Christians is the so called Golden Rule, do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
In Islam, we have a beautiful parallel, in a saying, by Prophet Muhammad, which is,
no one believes, no one really believes, unless he wants for his brother, what he wants for himself, yes, you know, pretty powerful parallel messages that we find between the reported words of Jesus and the message of the Quran and the reported saying, so, Prophet Muhammad. So if you look back to the teachings of Moses, whatever is left or Abraham, all these messengers, basically they were calling to the same way, the same ideas, the same theology, everything they were brothers of one another. Well, certainly they were brothers of one another. And like I say, said before, there are two aspects of the message that they all preach that were the same one God, there's only one only
only that one is to be worshipped. Yeah. And we're all going to have to account for ourselves, and an eventual Day of Judgment. But certainly one message and we look back to Moses, there's a
statement in the book of Deuteronomy that is central to Judaism. It's called the Shema. And it's hero, Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Yes, this is a key building block of Judaism. In the New Testament, we have someone coming up to Jesus and saying, you know, Master, which is the greatest commandment of all, and we're told in the New Testament that Jesus responds, here, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Yes. You know, certainly in Islam, we have the same message over
Over in the Quran, there is only one God. So when you go from hearing this hero is where the Lord that God is one, then again, there is only one God. Again, I'm asking the question. I mean, this is for me, I mean, just the layman, I'm thinking that this is a great opportunity when Jesus was approached to say that, look,
I am God, three and one, and I'm coming to die for your sins, you better accept this. Otherwise, you're going to be in the Hellfire, and you're going to be accountable and your salvation if you don't, is ruined. But is there anything clear like this in the Bible? What you just said, is clear here always with low that God is one and there's nothing after that, right? But I'm assuming the craters, you know, we can't even compare our knowledge to his. So why isn't there or is there and I'm him? Am I or many people missing something? No, the word Trinity never appears in the Bible. It's not spelled out love. The word never appears never. Now there is one verse in first job, yeah,
letter, first job that many Christians quote to show there's a trinity. But this verse appears only in the King James Version. It's a verse that we know from the texts we know, it was added to a Latin manuscript in Spain around the year 380. And from there spread to all the Latin manuscripts and even got into a few of the Greek manuscripts. But this is a later edition, and all Bible scholars of any repute, acknowledge that this is a later addition. Now, did Jesus ever say that, look, I'm coming to die for your sins, accept me as your Lord and Savior, that I'm going to die on the cross clear, I'm just saying, Look, man, you're going to enter into a contract, and you want to get paid tomorrow,
I'm going to do the work, we're going to make it clear as possible. So I'm thinking my salvation rests on this. So I'm just asking, humbly, a very simple question. Did Jesus peace be upon him ever explicitly say, I'm going to die on the cross, and I'm your God, and put all your sins on my bag, just believe in me something like this, give or take? Is there anything like this? humbly? I'm asking No, no, there's certainly nothing that direct anywhere. And in fact, there are passages which,
you know, would say that Jesus said, if anything the opposite, for example, well, in the Gospel of john,
we're told in the 17th chapter that Jesus is praying before his reported arrest, yes. And in his prayer, he says, and I'm quoting here, from the New Revised Standard Version of the Bible, and this is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. I glorified you on Earth. By here's the keys part, finishing the work that you gave me to do.
The work that Jesus was given to do, reportedly, by his own words, was finished before he was even arrested before they took him. So obviously, anything that happened after this point in time, let's hope was not part of anything that God gave Jesus to do. Let's take a break. We'll be right back with more here on the deen show. I am not afraid to say
I am not afraid to stand alone.
I am not afraid to say
I am not afraid to stand
I'm not afraid.
I'm not afraid.
I'm not afraid.
Back here on the deen show with Dr. Gerald derse, we left off or asked the question to Jesus peace be upon him ever explicitly say or teach that he was coming to die for the sins of the world? You left off where you quoted, john 2017 was it? It was gospel of john. And it was just before his arrest alleged this is this is life eternal, that they may know you the only true God so God the only true God that's the one we are worshipping. Yes, and Jesus whom you have sent. And this would also clarify that he was sent as a messenger just like Abraham was sent Moses and the last and final messenger. And you say that the work is done. What was that last part? Okay.
I glorified you on earth by finishing the work that you gave me to do. It's done. It's done. It's finished. And this is for those Christians who want to look this up. Yeah, you know, this is a gospel according to john
Chapter 17. Oh, and really read verses one through five, the key phrases in verse four. So this is chapter I'm sorry, this is the gospel of john chapter 17. Right verse one, verses one through five, to get the context. Yeah. But it's really in verse four, that we see this phrase, I glorified you on earth by finishing the work that you gave me to do. Now this is in the Revised Standard Version, New Revised Standard, notarized now what if someone says, Look, I have a King James Version, look it up. It's the same thing. Well, I don't have the King James Version with you. But you know, the thing to bear in mind. The King James Version.
At the time it was done. It was it was the best thing probably available in English. But when they made the translation, they went to rather late Greek manuscripts and making their translation they didn't go back to the earliest manuscripts. The New Revised Standard Version, basically the scholars, the translators have gone back to the earliest manuscripts we have and made their translation from that. So it's more authentic in terms of its provenance. This one that you're cornellians Okay, but it's still not an original. There is no original original. The Originals lost. There's no original no original. Okay, okay, we're gonna leave off there No, original. We'll be
right back. With more here in a deep show.
I'm not afraid.
I'm not afraid.
I am not afraid to stand.
Go to my room, lock the door prostrate and cry. Thank God, you know me better than myself. Show me the right way. And I will not look, I will leave everything behind.
Everything is intelligent.
Back here on the deen show with Dr. Gerald Dirks. We only have a couple more minutes left. For those now we've explained the similarities. And you talked about how their message was the same Jesus and Mohammed. So for the person who's listening like what you had to say some closing comments and suggestions
for this topic, Jesus and Mohammed, having to choose between one or the other. What do we say? All of the above all of the above all of the above, which is both, which is both Jesus and Mohammed as well as the prophets that came before Jesus, john the baptist. You know, Adam, Noah, Abraham,
Isaac, Ishmael, Jacob, Joseph, all the prophets, set by God or prophecy that Islam acknowledges now, we're told that we don't know the names of all of the prophets. Yeah, that God has said, but certainly those that we have the names for, we acknowledge and accept. That includes most of the prophets of the Bible. We love them all. Oh, absolutely. You don't have to wrestle with this trying to put one against the other create division amongst Oh, no, no, in fact, the Quran tells us, you know, don't don't try and create hierarchical orders among among the prophets. Yeah, that's not for you. Yes. Is humans to do? Yes. Okay. Well tell us now how can someone, people if they want to get
ahold of you, some of your books, best way to do that? Well, if they're interested in the common ground between Islam and Christianity, and the common message taught by Prophet Mohammed, and Prophet Jesus, peace be upon them.
One of my books, details in great length, these common passages from the Bible in the Quran, and that's called the Abrahamic faiths, Judaism, Christianity and Islam. They can get that or any of my other books, as well as contact me. You're available for public lectures and oh, yeah, dialogues. Sure. Okay. And they your information is all there. Yes. All with that website. Please be on to you. Thank you for being with us. Thank you, brother. Thank you. And thank you for tuning in to another episode of the deen show. You got to hear it Jesus or Muhammad. All the above. We accept all the messengers of God, they all call to the same way that way of acquiring peace by submitting your will
to the owner, appease the One God doing what the creator wants you to do on his terms, not your desires, and then you have that pleasant beautiful reward of his paradise and that's what
We're all striving for to be the best human beings that we can be in this life according to God's will. And then we get his wonderful reward in the next life. And we'll see you next time here on the D show. Until then, peace be unto you.