Channel: The Deen Show
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I can understand when somebody is excited. They just had a child a son, you know, but when people start to attribute, God having a son, what are they actually trying to say? I don't really get this, though, let's actually have a big discussion been going on for a couple of 1000 years at least or more doesn't make no sense to me. Well, you will have people that will try to make sense out of that, dude. As a matter of fact, this has been the topic recently, when East meets West when the Muslims and the Christians get together. That's like one of the favorite topics to hit on real quick, Can God have a son? In fact, let's do a program called kin, God have a son, we
got you in the house, go for it.
Thank you, Jeff, for being with us. On the show, they caught us in the middle of a conversation. So I want to know, what are you trying to tell me? What are you trying to say that
question, what is the question? We're saying? Can God have a son? Like a baby? Can God have a scenario you hold that is so close, and gets milk from its mother, that it comes out of a woman?
Alright, let's let's draw some, at least some basic ground rules for the discussion. I think that's only fair to the perimeters. Well, yeah, because what we want to lay out from the beginning, are we going to have a rational discussion, or an irrational discussion, if somebody said, for instance, God can do anything, there's no sense in having any discussion anymore. Because that God could disappear, God could run away, God could die God, good, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Because when you say something, anything, then there's nothing left to discuss. But when you look at it, from a rational point of view, this is when you're able to understand what we're talking about. And if you
really want to have people to listen to your points of view, if you want to talk about your particular faith, it is important to have a rational discussion. Very, yeah. And now let us take from from the beginning, but whatever about a son, let's ask the question, Can God do anything? Because that is the premise of what I'm saying here is, I'm going to say no, God doesn't have a son, of course, you know that. But But why am I going to say that? Okay, what am I evidences? First of all, I'm going to say that, that God doesn't have human limitations on him. And when you say anything, you're actually going to do the reverse of what you think you're going to do. I'm gonna
show you why. If you say God can do anything, one of the things are gonna say is Can God make a rock so big? Nothing can move it.
Now, let's run that by again. Can God make a big rock? Yes. Can you make it really dense? really heavy? Yes. Can you make it so heavy? that nothing can move it? Yes, he can. Okay, even he can't move it. Now, what was the answer? Now you're stuck, you just walked straight into an irrational conversation without realizing it? Because you didn't set the ground rules for you got there. What you start from the beginning, you say, God doesn't have any limitations. And when you say he doesn't have any limitations whatsoever, you're talking about human limitations. But now you're gonna have another problem. But if you because you're not defining God properly, let us look from God's point
of view. And how will we know that you won't, you won't know that unless you have scripture. Now we maintain that we have the Koran and the original. We've talked about many of our programs, we have a program, online, if anybody wants to go it's called a laws, Quran, Al LHS, qu o ra n calm. And if you go to the website, you can understand why we're saying this, this is a good way to start. It's a good foundation. Having said that, let's consider that if you understand that God is without human limits,
then he is the only one who will determine what he is who he is and how he is. That's up to him. And what we know about God is he is the ultimate in the epitome of each of his characteristics. It means that God is all living, he cannot die because he's alive. That's one of his name so high.
He doesn't die. So you say, Can God die? No, oh, that's something he can't do hold on a second. That's something he doesn't do. Because he doesn't have the same kind of limits you and I do he use without limits, but he never ever stops being God. So if he did something that was ungodly, then he wouldn't be God when he did it.
For instance, he doesn't cheat.
How can he cheat? He owns everything anyway. How could he lie? There's no reason for it. There's no benefit for him. So he's not going to lie. It's not a godly thing to do. He doesn't commit adultery. Well, first of all, he doesn't copulate. He doesn't have intercourse.
Horse, this is not something God does when God creates according to the Bible, according to the new and old testament, and according to the Quran itself, whenever God wants anything done, he says Be and it is Kuhn fire Kuhn. So if you understand that about God, why are you going to put him in this kind of a condition? Well, you're going to try to put him in your little finite mind and say, oh, God can or can't do this. God cannot No, no, no, you don't say it like that, you stop and go back to what he says about himself, and the Bible. And then we're gonna go back and talk about Numbers, chapter 23, verse 19, here's where he said, God is not a man. It's as simple as that. And God is not
the Son of Man. It's as clear as that. So anyone who claims to be a son of man,
or a man cannot be God, not according to that first, if you accept Bible as legal testimony. Now for me, I don't need to worry about what this English translation Bible says, I'm going to go straight to the authority, which is the Quran in the original language, and it still says the same thing. Lan Yellin will not match in chapter 112 of the cron, he is not the father of anything. He's not the son of anything is exact same statement here. So can God have these things, it doesn't make any sense that God is going to have things related to the creation. Now, I want to take you to another subject. Now let's go straight to this, about Son of God.
I wrote a paper sometime back, and it is called son of who, son of who. Now, this means that we're going to be, of course focusing on the Prophet Isa or Jesus, we, as Muslims have the right to discuss this amongst ourselves without outside interference, because this is something relative to us. This is our property, because it's in the Quran, that we have a prophet. We Muslims have a prophet who's called Isa rice. He was born as a miracle birth to Merriam. And there's no human intervention here. There's no copulation, there's no intercourse. There is Mary, who is a very young girl, she gives birth to a baby, no man is touched her. She's given word about that edited time by
the angel, the Angel jabril. Or Gabriel comes to her and tells her she's gonna have a baby. She asked, How is this possible when no man is touching me? The angel tells you for God a law. This is a simple thing. Whenever he wants anything done, he says Khun phi akun B, and it is. So we see immediately that it was the command of a law. We also find that it says in the Quran, Kalamata law, which means the Word of God, God's word, or allowes word. This is translated from the Aramaic to the Kony Greek, which is the more famous to the Christian, they're not familiar with the original language there are actually more familiar with the secondary language. Here. It says logos, they say
Jesus is the logos. Logos simply means word. That's all it means. Going to Greek means word, translated from kalama, cattleman Bert, God spoke the Word, and the Word became flesh. What is the problem? Just because God spoke a word and it became flesh doesn't mean it's God's Son. It doesn't mean it's a part of God. After all, in the beginning, when he created everything, he said, Be, and the world isn't his son, is it? The universe is his son? Why do you make that kind of connection? He said, day and it is Let there be light. So what light?
Is the Son of God? It doesn't make any sense. No.
So these are some of the things that you have to take into consideration when people are going to have these kind of arguments or discussions about who is Jesus who is this person called the Christ. The fact that he's called the Christ that proves his son of God. Somebody might say that, well, what are you talking about? Christ is nothing but a cone, a Greek word coming from Christos, Christos is Kony Greek, and then they anglicised it by dropping the S off
just like they did with logos. When they took off logos and made it logo, you have a business, don't you? And in your business, don't you have a logo? That's where it came from Carnegie. It means a word. Logo means a word, you have a logo, and that represents a whole idea. A single logo represents a whole concept. Is there anywhere I want to know the one that I love. I love Jesus as a Muslim. Yes, I love Jesus. You have to I love Jesus. You love Jesus, of course. And now it's not an option. It's not even a discussion point. So tell us from the words of our beloved Jesus, did he ever make explicit statements say I am God's only Son, I'm God's begotten son. God is my
literal father, that I am God's Son.
Don't know from the Bible. But we know from the Quran, I say we don't know from the Bible because the biblical scholars themselves, and I would like to mention a few. We had recently we had Dan Brown's, The Da Vinci Code that came out and clearly exposed a lot. Because they were quoting it, although it's a fictional story, the quotes they gave, and the information you gave was based on real scholars work. Yeah, in fact, those same scholars sued him for plagiarism. I don't know if they won or not. But at that point, also, we have another scholar by the name of Richard Elliot Friedman, who wrote the book called who wrote the Bible. And then we have recently another of the Christian
scholars that Richard Elliott Freeman happens to be Jewish. And he's talking about the Old Testament, the New Testament scholars have come to the same conclusion. For instance, FF Bruce, and then very recently, Bart,
or Aaron, Aaron, Aaron, Aaron.
He wrote a book last Christianity's after that he wrote, misquoting Jesus, when you read it, you're going to say, How can I have any faith in the Bible anymore at all, he became an atheist. He was a dyed in the world, Bible thumping, Jesus loving, you know, born again, Christian, until he started studying at Princeton. And he found out that all the stuff he was saying and been taught was just air, the actual reality what he saw in front of him, caused him to lose all faith, and this is what we do not want. We do not want Jews, Christians, or Muslims to lose faith. What we want to do is come together and come closer on what is true. What can we prove? Why do we got evidence? We need
evidence, we have solid, authentic evidence, I came to Islam because of evidence. I was clearly motivated, clearly motivated by evidence only. And, and the inspiration comes to you comes to me. After seeing evidence, then I think, Okay, that makes sense. But to blindly follow something and say, This is my faith, that's blind faith. Even the Bible that exists today in English states that you're not supposed to do that, to have blind faith blind following the blind. What is that?
It's hard though, when you grown up hearing people say over and over and over a certain statement, you can't help but fill in the blanks. There are just certain things you're going to say. Whether it's a little jingle from television, somebody starts at you finish it, something that you're used to seeing in the news, or something that you you know, here in the streets, that people start saying, you can't help but finish it. This is what you've heard all your life. And that's what people all they're doing is filling in the blanks. Really. Yeah. Mary Had a Little Lamb has to be what are you gonna say? Mary Had a Little Cadillac. And the work is like, What do you say? We want
the people to stop use their brain yank, don't let the pastor thing for you. Don't let this man over here at CNN thing and don't misquote things. What I just said Mary had a little lamb. That's common, everybody knows it. But if you miss quoted, you could say, Uh huh. See, here's a woman who gave birth to a sheep
says, Mary had a little lamb, don't you say, Oh, this woman had a little boy. Oh, okay. You mean by that, that she gave birth? Here? We don't mean that at all. We're saying that she owned it. And there's a big difference. You said God had a son? What are you saying? No. God owns all of his creation, including this great Messiah and prophet. So what we have from a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of copy, copy? What's not a copy of the original? Is there anywhere in this that Jesus explicitly or implicitly says that I am the Son of God? No, not really. No, he doesn't. He doesn't say I am. No he doesn't. He actually says I'm the son of man. This is what we find by 83 times. Now.
One of the things they'll say is, well look where he said I Am that I Am. And that's what God said in the Old Testament. I Am that I Am.
But you don't know what that was even in the cone, a Greek. Alright, for instance, is another one. And when it talks about
in john, the gospel of john, that in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. And God spoke the Word, and the Word became flesh. And they use all of this to say it was Jesus. But nowhere in those up until 19 verses after this starts up, do you find the word Jesus is not even connected to the expression? Okay, but actually, in the Greek, which is a translation of a translation of a copy of a copy of whatever, you know, according to these scholars that is quoted from
in the Greek even it didn't say that. It didn't say that. In the beginning was the word. The word was with God, the word God. There's no word
They're the Word of God. That's it. That's how it actually is. So you can even use that as a basis for the argument, even a copy of a translated copy of a copy of a copy of a, you can't use it because it didn't actually say that. And then we got to go actually back to the time. Like, if you say, today, in the place where we live in America, and you say, I need a lift, someone's gonna think you need a ride. But if you go to England, you say, I need to lift this elevator. So when you go back to the time, if you go back to the time of Jesus peace be upon them. What were in the Jews knew this language the best, what did they mean, at that time, when they refer to Son of God? Did they
actually mean what we think it means today? Actually, this is a good point you're bringing up. This is something very famous in the Semitic world, for the Jews for the Arabs, and for the people that are make descendancy that they would use this term, Ben, Ben actually means the son, for instance, Benjamin is really benya mean, which means the son of the right yameen is in means the right hand or the right side, Ben yameen is the son of the right. And
Ben caccia, was one of the famous tribes. And in Arabic, you you talk about Benny Hashem, and you're talking about the tribes of the people of Hashem, the hashemites. And if you said somebody is Abdullah, bin Saba, or if you said that, which happened to have been a Jew who came to
somebody has been salam, he's the son of. So this is just something that people normally say. Now, there's another word add, or add means the servant of so people had servants. And many times the servant would take the name of Master, as in I am the servant of so and so or the, you know, the slave of so and so. And in the end, this went on for a long time until Islam came. And then it was forbidden to say that you're a slave anymore, because God doesn't like slavery. By the way, a law doesn't like it. He encourages Muslims to free slaves all the time. So if there's slavery going on, the only real slavery should be the slave is ultimately the slave of Almighty Allah. So Allah, and
you put in front of it, Allah Abdullah, your people named Abdullah Abdullah, you probably know somebody named Abdullah. So he's actually the servant of God, servant of Allah. Abdullah, yes. Well, if somebody was using that term of the law, and then somebody else said, Ben, or law, you know, benio law, these actually saying the Son of God, or decency of God, so this was someone a pious person, or they can say, even even as another way to say, use a ban, or even both of these are the same thing in vanilla, so that that time it meant someone righteous, I don't know, I'm just telling you, this is the words, I'm not gonna try to tell you somebody's gonna make up anything. What I
know, I'll talk about what I don't know about, I don't know. And this is the way that if you want to have a rational discussion, when you come to a point where you don't know something you say, I don't know. And this keeps everything on an even keel. And this is one of the things we lacked a lot in the West today is when a person doesn't know. You don't need to punt, you need to stop and say, this is a case where I can't answer that. We'll move on. I see. Okay, we're gonna answer, ask a couple more questions before we come to a close. So let's go back to we jumped into the Bible a little bit. Let's stay there, then we'll go away from there. But real quickly, if you take
where people are saying, Jesus is the Son of God, we can go back and say, Okay, let's be fair all across the board, because the Bible actually has sons by the tons. You know, Adam was the Son of God, David was a son of God. So why explicitly only to Jesus? Give us some examples here. All right. Again, we know in prophecy from the Quran, as Muslims, but also for the Jews and their prophecy, they still have their holding on to their talk about one who will come who is the anointed, and the appointed one, to be the king of the Jews. And this expression is used in the Bible, and it's understood in Arabic as well as the one who has chosen the chosen one. And this is the one chosen
not by the people, but chosen by God. And this is the point of being chosen. Okay. So when we're talking about the chosen one,
the Jews themselves chose their kings, they through their own Electoral College, like we have today, and chose from their elite chose who should be the king amongst them. And when they
chosen, then they would give allegiance to him by anointing his head with oil. They anointed his head is mentioned in the Bible, the anointing oil, and anointing the king. And they would take this olive oil, it's olive oil from the Holy Land. And then they would put this on his forehead. And the act of doing this in the Arabic language is called mess. mess, or wiping, literally, this is verse wiping. So it meant though anointed, chosen. So he's called the messy side, messy, messy. And that was translated English Messiah, sorry. So he is the chosen, the appointed the anointed, the King of the Jews chosen by God. This is what it means. And that's where it comes from. So if you said, Is
Jesus the Messiah, did you say absolutely not, because they're expecting him to come. their Messiah has to come and lead a physical fight against their foes to lead them as a military structure and overcome the oppressive rulership over them. That was what they had at the time of Jesus birth, which was the Roman Empire. They were subjugated to the Romans at that time, and had a horrible time, they were horribly punished in treated bad. Now, we understand it, as Christians do that, in fact, Jesus himself was the Messiah. He was the Messiah.
But he left, he's with God, and He will come back. This is what we believe, is what most Christians believe. This is accepted. Now, originally, the Catholic Church has overturned that and said, let's don't talk about anymore. Maybe he's not coming back this time, you know, don't go into that anymore. But for us, no, we're staying right under because we have it from the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him. In fact, Jesus was the Messiah, he was before me and he'll be after me, he's going to come again. And that's how it is. And this fits exactly with some of the prophecies in New Testament from what's surviving of it. So we see Jesus peace be upon him as not a son, a literal Son
of God, but we do see him as the Messiah, as the Christ because in Coney Greek, Christos means are anointed or chosen, the appointed one. So there's no difference. Christ means Messiah. Messiah means chosen, the one that's coming in a can So okay, what's the big deal? How do you translate that to become a son of God? There's no word son related with it. Some of the other things, a miracle bird. This is another way Let's change subject now. The Miracle bird Jesus had no father. Okay, that's any must be God's Son. Now? No, not necessarily. Not necessarily. Let's go back and look at Eve. Eve is created out of Adam. So do you call God her mother?
No. Well, if you want to give the exact same application, if you want to use the rational argument, you have to do that. Then if you said, Because
Jesus had a mother, okay, which is Mary, but no father, therefore, God is the Father, then let's go back to Eve and say, well, that she didn't have a mother. So therefore, God's her mother.
No. And even then, it's still no reason to worship Jesus if he even if he was which he wasn't. But still, you didn't worship Eve, did you? So why are you worshiping Jesus? And by the way, while we're on the subject of fathers and mothers, who was the father of Adam, and who is the mother of Adam, and in fact, he didn't have either. He was created from dark.
I think a woman coming from a man's bone is pretty wild. That's a miracle, don't you? Yeah. And I think a woman coming from
from a man is pretty well, it and then what about a man being born of a woman coming out of her womb, but no man has fertilized the egg? That's not as big a miracle. It's a miracle, but not as big because there are animals today that are asexual. There are bees, female bees, that can give birth to a male bee and there was no intercourse. So but how about this, and let's go to the big one, Adam had no father, no mother came out of dirt. If you want to worship somebody based on their creation, Adam is in line, he's the guy to go to. Yeah, if you want to use that as a rational argument. And of course, we don't worship Adam, either. We worship the God that created Adam from birth, we worship
the God that created Eve from the bone, we worship, the God of Jesus. And Jesus was created of a woman who had never been touched by a man. And in any case, you look at it any of the miracles that any of the prophets did, or steal from God.
According to the province themselves, I don't do anything of myself. I do it by the one who sent me the one above the one in authority, the one who said
creator, the one who allows these things to be done. They attributed to Jesus. But in fact, even the miracles that he did about the leprosy of the time of Moses, it says in the Bible, he put his hand into his coat and he pulled it out. His hand was leper cysts. Now he put it back and pulled it out again and it was clean. and earn it says that he put it in and came out shiny didn't say it was leprosy. But beside the point, if you want to say something here, what happened to his hand? And we'll talk about coming back to life. What about the dry bones, the dry bones of Ezekiel that they use to bring dead people back to life?
That was long before Jesus. So bringing somebody back to life also doesn't mean Jesus is God or son of a god. It means he did miracles, to show people he was who he said he was, he was the Messiah. He was the one who was sent and the Jews for the most part, ignored it disowned him, and really wanted to remain. They didn't want to accept now we as Muslims, we accept that he was one of the mighty messengers of God. Absolutely. So please give us the audience some advice, those who now are just filling in the blanks. They're going along with something that their grandfathers their fathers taught them something that actually you believe being a former Christian preacher, Minister, give
some advice to those who are still stuck on this concept. One of the things that we'll do is just quote to you from two sources and let you think for yourself. I want to go to the Quran. It says in Quran Chapter 39,
verse 53, it says, say all my servants who have transgressed against their souls do not despair of the mercy of a law, for Allah forgives all sins, for he is off, forgiving, Most Merciful. If anyone are going to set chapter four, verse 110, if anyone does evil or wrongs his own soul, but afterwards six allows forgiveness, then you will find a lot of forgiving, Most Merciful, Chapter Two Surah Baqarah, verse 21, it says, all you people adore your guardian, Lord, who created you, and those who came before you that you may become like this, this is showing you who is a lot. This isn't Jesus. This is God. This is the one that Jesus also needs this relationship with him. We're talking about
relationship. And in Mark,
here, we have Jesus, go to the Bible. It says, Why do you call me good? There's none good, but God alone.
God is good. He said, No, don't call me that. And in 517, don't think that I came to abolish the law and the prophets I came not to destroy, but rather to fulfill the prophecies.
And not until all things are accomplished, sell a single dot jar iota of the lobby in any ways lesson, whoever breaks the least commandment and teaches this, he will be the the least in the kingdom, but whoever keeps commandments, and teaches that he'll be the highest in the kingdom. So we see clearly that Jesus is talking about keeping the law following God and the relationship and this is a cap, you want to capture the whole thing that we're talking about. Yes. Ready? Yes. Question.
Who did Jesus pray to? And why? Why did Jesus pray? And to whom did he pray? It's a good question. Let them ponder and think now.
We got a website for that. We got a good website. It's called Yeah, it's called Bible islam.com. Bible islam.com. And if you've been some other website you already know about Islam. code.com. You know, also about when we mentioned that a program, when we were talking about 911, Bible, but any of them you go to, you're going to find similar stories that will help you thank you again for being with us.
And I like to thank everybody for tuning in to the D show. Every week on the D show, we try to bring you a new episode. And just to recap, God doesn't have a son, God cannot be a man. God is distinct from his creation. And if you can dig, worshipped in the Creator, and not his creation, then you can dig Islam. And that's the main message to worship the creator and not his creation and to obey his commands. And then at the end, you got paradise. So we'll see you again, every week. Stay tuned, a new show, and you can also visit us on the de show calm. And if you have any questions regarding the Bible, 911 Bible calm, and we'll see you again on the DS show us and I'm like peace.