Before you pull the Trigger for Divorce with Laura Doyle

Salam Alaikum let me ask you some questions are you in a loveless marriage both good people, they're both good people but they have fallen out of love or something else has happened that's created a created a massive wedge they've tried, you've done everything. That's all that they can to improve the marriage and it's just not happening. But you still have a level of level of care and love maybe not in love now before you go down that route of thinking, or even pursuing is divorced the right option in that case, before you listen to people who might persuade you sway you or hint for you to go down the direction of a personal choice. Bass sounds like yes, I want you to listen to my next

guest coming up a deed

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My next guests, Laura Doyle was the perfect wife until she actually got married. When she tried to tell her husband how to be tidier, more romantic, and more ambitious. He avoided her. So she dragged into marriage counseling, and nearly divorced him, but she was too embarrassed to get divorced. In desperation, she asked women with happy marriages for their secrets. And that's when she got her miracle. The man who wooed her returned, Laura accidentally started a worldwide movement, a woman who practice the six intimacy skills that led to her having a playful, passionate relationship. Her books have been translated into 19 languages in 30 countries, including the number one Amazon in New

York Times bestseller, The surrendered wife, Laura has Laura's the founder of borador Connect, and international relationship coaching school, she has helped over 15,000 women fix their relationships, even the hopeless ones, without their husbands even knowing what they were doing. Laura is also the star of empowered wives on Amazon Prime, the creator of the ridiculously happy wife program. And as appeared on The Today Show. Good Morning, America. And the view is my next guest here with us. Nora, how are you are great. Thank you. It's good to have you back. Thanks. So you're not really a big fan of traditional marriage counseling. Are you sir, I am not know why?

Well, I was on the marriage counselors, gray couch myself, we'd gone for years, we I remember, we paid over $9,000. And this is like 20 years ago. And I was on her couch when I thought, Okay, this is hopeless, I'm going to have to get divorced. Because it out I'm going to spend the rest of my life in a loveless marriage because he's never going to change. And I remember deciding to get divorced, out of that counseling, where we had spent a lot of time focusing on all the things that were wrong in our marriage. And I remember leaving with a kind of a heaviness

and feeling very hopeless about things. And I thought we were the only ones I thought must be something about us or you know, especially I thought something was wrong with him. But now that I've helped 10s of 1000s of women make their marriages last and thrive. I hear the same story from so many of my students that they went to two or three counselors also and left in worse shape than they got their or the counselor says Well, I think you should get divorced or

yeah, they they unfortunately, I think marriage counselors mean, well, I'm sure that they do. They got into the business for the right reasons to help people. And unfortunately, the structure is very destructive. And I think the statistics bear that out, unfortunately about couples that go to marriage counseling, what is the divorce rate now? I'm currently around data showing, you know, there's there's various studies, you know, for a long time, we heard that it was about 50%. So about half the time marriages end in divorce. And then for a while I heard the statistics were down. But it was partly because marriage was also down that

people were getting married older, they are getting married when they're older now, and so they're less likely to divorce. So I think when you dig into the statistics,

it takes a little doing right and and even if you are married like I was still married, but we were living

Living almost as though we were separated, like, like awkward roommates, instead of husband and wife. So I think even the formal divorce statistics don't tell the whole picture about how many couples are, unfortunately suffering. And I think it has a lot to do with no one teaching them the skills that you need to be successful in marriage. I know no one taught me my parents are divorced. I was following a failed recipe and they don't have any relationships, one on one at my school. So I made my own school, right, I asked him, I knew I had happy marriages for those secrets. And that was so life changing. Have you heard of this documentary called divorce court? I have not no, sorry.

It's a really good documentary. It talks about the interviews, attorneys, it interviews, private investigators, and it goes into the $50 billion industry of divorce. And it talks, it shows how couples will actually go in there, and they'll just want a peaceful resolution. But then it's already like a tinderbox. And then the lawyers, you know, the system is there just to suck you dry. So they're just putting already on a very fragile situation, they're putting fire. And it just ends up really, really messy and ugly. And this is what your material your books, you're you're trying to help people by avoiding that. Absolutely. I'm on a mission to end world divorce, actually. So um,

one of the things that I think he kind of touched on in talking about this divorce court thing is just how scared everybody is right? It is a tinderbox. I was just interviewing a man actually who's the husband of one of my relationship coaches. And he was talking about the transformation at their house and how different things are now. And he was saying that he had been looking for an apartment prior to his wife training with us because he thought the other shoe was going to drop and she was going to kick them out or say, we're getting divorced, now. You've got to go. So he was very defensive and angry every day because he was so scared. And then I'll have my students on the other

side say, Well, my husband said, he's moving out. So and I think, and he said, it's over. And we're getting divorced. So I think I better get a lawyer, because now it's serious, you know, this is a real threat to my financial well being and my children and the custody. So I really need to lawyer up. And it's really all coming out of fear, which is understandable as mere mortals when you're, you know, the ground shaking underneath you like that, and the way of life that you've had, it seems like it's, it could be threatened. We all tend to get defensive, right? It's a normal human reaction. But it is very,

such a sensitive moment. And it just takes so much courage, I think to choose your faith over your fear in that moment. And I hear what you're saying that these divorce, the divorce attorney, the whole system, kind of beyond the attorney, it sounds like it's kind of set up and maybe to, to really push on that fear and how people react out of fear instead of out of their faith. Like this is the this is the man I married, right? This is the woman I married, picked them for a reason. They have good qualities, right? No one's all black or white. And

so I think a big part of what we

do on our campus is try to make sure that people are acting out of love and out of their faith instead of under their fear. This is the documentary just the trailer real quick, if you want to check it out would be easier than a divorce.

I think death would be easier than a divorce.

It's very frustrating to have gone for help, and then come out with your family destroyed.

We have serious problems in our family law court system.

Getting divorced is far from easy. Litigation lasted for over a year as married only four months. And male divorces lasted over six and a half years, close to eight years. Eight years. Why is divorce so difficult? People can get as much justice as they can afford. Most people cannot afford any justice at all. What's wrong with that? This is a business. The more you charge the more people are willing to pay. They didn't give me a lawyer pay this $11,000 or go to jail. It really got to the end of the line for me. I said to the litigants, I want you to know if the two hours we will have spent more than most people in this courthouse make in a year.

Your home your your valuables are all going to be sold

Pay the lawyers and people like me.

Even though I was acquitted, he still made a decision to take my son away from me. His birthday was last week and I didn't get to see him. But you have is a tinderbox. And the lawyers are throwing gasoline on that fire. That system is designed to create conflict. I received a phone call for another 25,000 he be able to give us what we wanted. extortion,

Family Court results and more violence in any other area of law. Yes. Suicide, murder.

No jury, just the one bias judge, the judge says even if you win, you have to pay

the whole thing is just insane.

Follow the money.

I think everybody, what's your reaction to that? I mean, just the trailer. Scary, terrified. I'm heartbroken for them. I think

if you get a chance to watch the whole thing is really worthwhile. And anybody who's thinking about divorce or anything should should really watch this documentary. It just puts things in a reality check. Yeah. So what what are what are the some of the also when you see some of the traditional marriage counselors? How much do drugs get involved prescription medication you talked about that?

I can share from my own experience on that as well. So both my husband and I were diagnosed, I was diagnosed with depression, and I was put on antidepressants. And my husband was diagnosed with a, a deficit disorder, attention deficit disorder, which is I just cringed I think about that now, like a deficit and a disorder like, wow, he was really screwed up, and, and prescribed medication for that. And I really was so hopeful about these diagnoses, like, okay, there was something wrong, now it's getting fixed, everything's going to be better. And of course, it didn't make things better. In fact,

it's been many years now, it's been a over two decades, since that happened, neither one of us is on medication. And neither one of us suffers from those mental illnesses anymore in any way that I can detect that affects us or our marriage. So I don't really,

I look back, and I find that that was an unhelpful distraction from the real issues. You know, labeling someone with a mental illness might feel kind of satisfying, or briefly like, Oh, that explains the problem. But there was still not a happy ending, right? There's a broken down husband and a depressed wife. And that was never my vision for my marriage. I wanted to have a playful, passionate relationship and a strong family. And that really didn't contribute to that at all.

I had a psychologist on the program, Dr. Keith Witt, and he told me that a lot of times these terms that are developed, and people are labeled, it's to go ahead and be able to make a claim for the insurance.

Yeah, otherwise they can't get paid. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So So what were some of the secrets now, so you're going from the traditional marriage counseling, you're spending all this money and get nowhere? So we want to help people get nowhere from getting nowhere to get in somewhere? So you got somewhere? When you started talking? This is like common sense. You started talking to people who had successful marriages, not people who are in the divorce club? That's right, exactly. And that's an interesting thing about marriage counseling is you don't know their history of their marriage. So they could be on their third divorce, but they've got that certificate on the wall that

says they're qualified to help you right. And so sometimes, you know, I remember one student said that she went to a counselor and the counselor said, well, first of all, you know, figure out where all the assets are in case you need to divide them up. That was like the first that that was her opening session with the counselor. So it really was not geared toward helping her solve the issues in her marriage, it was really geared towards like, you know, how you're going to end your marriage. So, so anyway, it was very eye opening, it was, in fact, shocking. To find out some of the things that he's happily married women were telling me, because they were the opposite of many of the

things I heard in marriage, counseling and other places do. Things I'd heard all my life about relationships turned out not to be true at all, based on what this woman told me. So it took me a while to even be willing to try some of their crazy suggestions, because they didn't make any sense to me. I remember, one woman said, I try never to criticize my husband, no matter how much it seems like he deserves it. I was like, Have you got anything else? Because I didn't think that that was possible. I didn't think I could do it. And as a mere mortal woman, I gotta say I'm still not perfect at that.

but it is now something that I strive for. Because I know that when I'm criticizing my husband, I'm tearing down my own house, right? I'm, I'm hurting the man that I pledged to love and that I do love. And that I have the kind of marriage that I dreamed of having. It's not nearly as tempting, I have better ways of getting what I want and need in the relationship to where it's a virtuous cycle. It's a win win situation. And I can give you some examples of the tools and skills that have helped me get to that. Please share, please share what what is like the the number one skill that has helped you get to where you are? Oh, gosh, it's really hard to say the number one, I will tell you

the first indispensable step to making my marriage happy, that really had eluded me. And that was that I needed to first make myself happy. But it's not so obvious. I know when I say it like that, like, only happy people have happy relationships. But I didn't think that I could be happy because my marriage was so miserable. And I got kind of attached to that I thought, well, if I act like I'm happy, he's gonna think it's okay, the things that he's doing, the way he's showing up, I thought that, in order for him to make changes, I had to stay angry, and upset. And that turned out to be very counterproductive. I was just unpleasant, and it kind of repelled him. And it was also

exhausting and unhappy for me. So there was this structure I came up with where I made a list of 20 things that bring me joy. So I don't play volleyball, for example, that's on the list. Or even just having a cup of tea and reading a book, or listening to music, I love and going for a walk, I spent a list of 20 Simple things like that, that I love. And then I decided I was going to do at least three a day. Like no matter how busy I was, that was going to come first, I was just filling myself up with happiness, so that I could show up smiling and happy in my relationship instead of like, you know, now that miserable, unhappy look like okay, you know, you're in trouble, which had been kind

of a permanent feature of my marriage for a couple of years, unfortunately, several years, before I discovered that this incredible secret. And a lot of times on our campus, we'll see, we'll ask a woman to start with this. It really is the first skill like unless you do that, one, you're not going to have the energy to do the five other skills, right? They do take a little focus and concentration, because a lot of times they're the opposite of what you've been doing, right? They're new habits. And you got to do something different to get the you know, you got to do things you've never done before to get the kind of marriage you never had before. Right. So they're not hard.

They're just new. And a lot of times women will say like, okay, yeah, yeah, I get that. But you know, what, my marriage is really in a crisis. He's got another woman or he's threatening divorce, he's already moved out. You know, show me how to fix this right away. And we're always like, yeah, you know, how's your self care? How many things have you done today? Because without that, it's really hard to go on to the rest. And you're never going to have a happy relationship until you make yourself happy first. Now, that doesn't mean that your husband doesn't want to make you happy. In fact, how important is it to you that your wife is happy? Let me just ask you that. I think for

every man, that's when you asked us that question before you ask, like every man that you've asked, said the same thing. That's right, exactly. It's just, I just love the reminder of how every man says it's like, the most important thing or it's everything or it's imperative. And I think that as in a struggling marriage, you forget that that's his priority, because it honestly does kind of stopping his priority if he's feeling criticized or disrespected. Because he's busy shoring up his own ego, he's busy defending himself, because you can still tap into your husband's desire to make you happy, really, by he could trigger his hero gene. And then he shows up, like completely willing

to do so much to help you to lighten your load to delight you, if you are happy, and he knows that you are placeable and that he can delight you even further.

A lot of things, great things you covered me. Do you see people coming into marriage? Thinking that so person cannot be so happy kind of happy? But then they think okay, if I get married, that person is I'll be happy and then they end up projecting, you know, what's going on inside of them. And they get more upset because they think well, you're not making me happy now. So you're the problem. And now you're the source of me not being happy but I wasn't

Happy even before I got married. That's, that's exactly right. In fact,

I forget who was who it was it that said, if he can't be a good example, you'll just have to be a horrible morning. And the end, this was certainly my story, you know, I did not. I did not have the tools to make myself happy when I got married, so I was looking at my husband to make me happy. And of course, he can't do that. And I remember, even

on this trip to Hawaii early on, he took me on this romantic getaway to Hawaii, which so wonderful, right. And while we were there, I was looking forward to going to the beach on the first day. And he was looking forward to the FAFSA, what do you want to do? And he said, Let's go see a volcano. And I thought, oh, that's gosh, that is not what I want to do. But I'm gonna just suck it up and do what he wants to do. Because I don't want to cause a conflict. And so I never even said what I wanted, right? And if you can't say what you want, Porsche never gonna get what you want. So we're in the car going to see this volcano, but you don't see it for a long time. It's just a long drive. And I

started to kind of get upset and he realized something was wrong. He's like, there's something wrong, you know? And I was like, Do you think it'd be

nice to see a volcano at the BGA when I was right now, so you saw a volcano, right. And poor guy, all I knew was he took me to Hawaii for rim or Mantic trip, and it really backfired on him. But even after I was behaving so badly, he took me to the beach, because he just wanted me to be happy. And, you know, it's just sad that I just had no idea how to express a desire in a way that inspires him. And now that I have that formula, things go so much smoother, there's so much less conflict here that it was avoiding the conflict by just doing what he wanted. And it actually is much more powerful. If I can say what it is that I would love to do. You mentioned the term disrespect. Last

time, we talked about oxygen being respect being like oxygen. For men, for men, there's a saying that boys cry for it. Men die for it, like how does the term respect play into a good, healthy relationship?

That's a great expression. I hadn't heard that boys crack work, men die for it. Yeah.

Well, I think this is such this is for me, like one of the areas of mystery about marriage. Because I think for the female brain, at least my female brain, to have a real understanding of what respect means to men, has taken quite a bit of concentration,

and has kind of revealed itself to me over time, in a way that is,

I just didn't see it coming because I was raised knowing that I should respect my husband. Because most of us are and you know, Husbands love your wives and wives, respect your husbands. And, and yet, I still do not understand that when I was telling my husband how to drive, or when I was telling him what to wear. Or I was asking him if he remembered to bring the water bottle? And did he remember to charge this phone or whatever, that all those things were disrespectful if I was saying, Don't you think this you know that that was a form of disrespect, or, you know, correcting him? There's so many examples of interrupting him was a big one that I struggled with, early on. And so

those were things where I didn't have any intention to be disrespectful. But I also didn't realize that I was being disrespectful, and it was doing us a lot of harm. It's unintentional, but whatever. We were both suffering. So it was a great benefit to learn what respect looks like, and then be able to bring that to him. Like

I remember just not too long. I'm still not perfect, being respectful, unfortunately. But we were at dinner a while ago, and we hit my husband had me just really nice restaurant it was it was really buzzing and the waiters are flying around. You could hear the noise from the bar and people are laughing and we were having a nice time. And then I said something critical about his company, the way he was running his company. And I was I was criticizing one of his clients actually. And but it was really about the way he was running his company. And all of a sudden, it was like the music stop the waiter stop the people in the bars and get to stop and my husband got this look on his face. And

I was like, Oh, I wasn't really ready to be accountable yet. I was like, Oh,

was that disrespectful? And he was like, Yes. And I was like

and then I said I apologize for being destroyed.

respectful when I criticized your client, and all of a sudden, like, the music comes back, the waiters are back my husband relaxes are good time is back, our nice conversation is back. So instead of having a tense night where maybe we're just not even speaking for the rest of the night, you know, we're able to have a good time again, because I was able to identify like, oh, I, I was disrespectful. And I, I want to be respectful wife. And so being able to apologize and clean that up, just feels like gold.

In your book, empowered wife, you have that chapter, we went over, people can watch that episode that we did. It goes over many of the myths and misconceptions. And I've seen over the years, I've seen people

hit a lot of those and just get them wrong. And these are people who also are doing, we have a lot of different moms, also marriage counselors in the Muslim community. And I'm like, wow, they should really and I really recommend your book, you know, because people kind of just are passed along information. They don't question it. They just kind of regurgitate it, and then just go ahead and pass that along. But you kind of put those myths and those misconceptions in their in their place. Which Which ones do you get? I don't I don't have it in front of me. But which what are some of the top three that you encounter? Often you're like, oh, that they've got it wrong there. I'll tell you

when I hear again, and again and again. And it drives me that in fact it I get upset. I want to like, throw a pie in someone's face or something. Because when I hear repeatedly is that you should use these. These blasted I statements you say, you know, when you don't take out the trash, I feel abandoned or something like that, right? And they're just awful. Because it's, it's just a criticism, you're just complaining about that person. And if you say I feel at the beginning, you can say anything you want after that, and it's like, it should be okay. And then when he reacts badly, then you go, Oh, my gosh, see, there's something wrong with him because he gets upset when I

do what they told me I should do? Well, you shouldn't do. It is not helpful. No one wants to hear this packaged criticism in this this way. And I mean, this issue, we used to have, like, I couldn't get my husband take out the trash. I didn't know. And I was following what the experts were saying, you know, I would really love for you to take out the trash today or you know, something like that. And that doesn't work. And like our trash was overflowing, and then I end up taking it out. And I be seething with resentment. And we've come such a long way. Because now I what I did was I just caught him doing something good. You know, I would, he would take out the trash. And I would appreciate him

for it. I would say I'm so happy you took out the trash. Thank you so much. And this came up the other day, I was talking about somebody suggesting this i statement thing for the trash. And it was hilarious because I was talking to my husband about and he goes, usually I'm gonna go over and check the trash right now make sure it's empty in case you want to throw something away, you know, like, he's just all about taking care of me making sure I'm happy. And I would never use those I statements now because I just, you know, same reason I wouldn't, I don't know, pull my hair out would be painful. So that's that's the number one myth that I hear coming up all the time. I think

another one. The second one that I hear. That is really, truly heartbreaking. kind of goes back to your divorce court reference is how often the the conventional wisdom is a you should divorce him, right. That's like the helpful advice. You know, well, you should leave him Oh, he's, he's verbally abusive, right? Well, you should leave him or he's, he was flirting with a woman at work well, you should leave him You deserve better. So, um, and I get like, those are heartbreaking situations and you

feel like maybe you can end your own suffering by, you know, kind of maybe doing these ultimatums or telling him you know, telling him he's wrong or exploding on him. And, boy, that just never works.

In fact, I was just hearing from a student recently who's her what her friend had caught her husband cheating and she just immediately ran to that divorce. And of course, he shouldn't be cheating. And you know, that is a horrible, horrible situation. But this woman also had a three children. And she kind of made a I don't wanna say I mean kind of an impulsive decision right to immediately start that divorce and, and gave herself very few options for the possibility of the recovery of that family. And she's now in a position where she's counseling other women don't do what I did, you know, to see if you can

fix it because, boy, this is painful. This is hard. And this is, this was rough on my children. And this was rough on us financially. And I'm always going to be connected to my ex husband, because we have these three children together.

You have a audio podcast, I recommend people to check out and you interview many different women who've had tremendous success implementing many of the strategies and tips that you give advices. And I remember one interview, the woman was talking about how she went around a certain group of friends, and who were divorced, and they were kind of encouraging her to divorce. And then she would feel a certain way. And then she was like, I don't want to be like that. But then she saw how their lives were, they were kind of, like miserable. And then on the other hand, she was seeing again, those the success stories, she's I want to be like them. So how important is it play? Like who

you're around? How much influence does that have over your decisions? I'm so flattered that you listen to my podcast that is very, so sweet. And, yeah, I to this day, I purposely very intentionally surround myself with women who think that marriage is important, and they want to have great marriages. And they invest their time and energy in strengthening their families. Because, first of all, they inspire me. They're some of my favorite people. I mean, the numbers are perfect, right. So sometimes, these other women are sharing about the horrible thing that they said to their husband, or the horrible thing that they did. And it's kind of relatable for me as a mere mortal

woman who's also said and done some things I'm not so proud of. So 20 years later, having a group of like minded women who are standing for my greatness as a wife and standing also for my husband's greatness. As as meant the world to me, it helps really keep my marriage shiny, and the way that I want to have it. How do you think you describe yourself as a as a college educated feminist? How have you seen the feminist movement? At one point where there was some legitimate concerns, you know, fighting for many of the rights that women didn't have? To where it's like, second third wave feminists were were were out today?

Yeah, it's a really interesting question. I think it's maybe poorly defined with the second and third waves really are about. But I think I think one big shift for me is that I was raised with this indoctrination, that it was really important to be in independent, you got to be able to get that education and support yourself, you don't want to depend on a man. And, and today, that is certainly not my goal. It's really my goal to have a connected,

playful, passionate marriage where we're interdependent. And I consider that a big part of my success in life as a woman is, in fact, just the thing I'm most proud of in the whole world. I, we just celebrated our 32nd wedding anniversary. And I consider that like my biggest accomplishment ever. And so I guess, as a woman who stands for other women being successful, I want to stand for them being successful in their families.

You measured last time, being pleased double, like if someone's not pleased, double, there's no pleasing them. Like, can you that's also stood out. That's something that has been there. I've thought about that. Since the last time we spoke. Can you remind us about that? Yes. So I had this totally unfortunate habit of I remember telling my husband, don't buy me flowers, they're expensive and they die. Or, or he would buy me a gift. And maybe it was like the wrong colors or something. So like, nothing he did was right. And because, and maybe I would even say Oh, thank you. That's, that's so sweet. But then I'd return it right. So he knew I wasn't really pleased. So of course, he

stopped trying, right? Because he couldn't succeed with that. So and then I was the same way with so that was gifts. I was the same way with compliments. You know, we'd wake up in the morning and he'd say, Oh, you look so beautiful. And I would go no, I don't you know, my hair's a mess or whatever I got argue with him. And so I was I was a poor receiver. And very, very implausible. Or he he would offer to help with something and I'd be like, no, no, I've got it. You know, even something like I remember one time I carried a

Box of heavy dishes like up the stairs to our house. And he was like, you know, okay, I guess, I guess you've got it, you know. So um, I was really robbing as both of this wonderful interaction that we have, like many times a day now where he gives an I receive, and I'm delighted and he is he finds a lot of satisfaction in and making me happy, pleasing me like that. So, and I had the key the whole time, I didn't know it, I thought, Oh, my husband's just not doing anything romantic. Well, he couldn't I was blocking that by not being pleased at all. There was another thing that you mentioned in the myth section of the book empowered wife was that this misconception that

one has more power than the other, you know, in a relationship, and you're, you're the towards one, rather than the other who has actually more power and you give some examples about who initiates more divorce, etc, etc. Can you explain that to us? Sure. So my experience, not just with myself, but with 10s of 1000s of students who have now been very successful in transforming their marriages and making them wonderful. Now, I'm not just like, Okay, we're not getting divorced, but making their marriages amazing, tells me that women are the keepers of the relationship. And I know, this is very unpopular to say this right now. Because I think there is a big push towards this idea that,

you know, men and women are the same. And it just isn't my experience. You know, for one thing I am, there was a study at the University of Toronto, where they discovered that, you know, I'm glad you're sitting down for this, that women are more emotional than men. So that was shocking, right? That was research money well spent. And but I think this is just one example, like women have this emotional brilliance and that is a gift and a contribution to their marriages that where the marriage suffers without this valuable contribution that they make. So I say Viva la difference, you know, we are we bring and maybe can look at it just as yin and yang even right that there is a kind

of going back to this placeable example that we're just talking about. The Alchemy, like, you can think of it like a coffee mug, where the Yang is the structure, the maybe the ceramic part and the handle of the mug, and the yen is the part that can receive the coffee that can hold the coffee. And without the ability to hold the coffee. That Yang has no purpose, right, that coffee cup has no purpose. And so I think we fit together beautifully, very complimentary. And yet,

women for whatever reason, we seem to have more power and influence, not just whether the marriage lasts, but the the culture within the marriage, which is going to be wild while hostility, or if we're going to have intimacy and laughter, and peace and warm, fuzzy feelings. Wow, that's a shock for many. So that kind of, you know, the common mantra is that it's like

5050. But here it is showing that women are the gatekeepers here. Yes, absolutely. 100% In fact, and I think it's good news, bad news, a lot of women describe having this realization that they are that geek keeper as like a slap in the face. But also that made them so hopeful because it's kind of like spider man, right, with great power comes great responsibility. So the you know, the bad news is it's your responsibility. And the good news is it's also within your power to create the kind of marriage that you want to have an enormous influence in your marriage, to really make it magical, moving, exciting, like everything you dreamed of as a little girl, which I think it sounds almost

too lofty to women who are struggling. I know when I was struggling, I just wanted my husband to stop ignoring me and stop watching so much TV and you know, help with the housework and some very basic things. And what I've come to realize is it kind of all goes together like the man will do his move heaven and earth for me if I

take my responsibilities seriously, and do the things that actually contribute to that intimacy and peace in my home. But that also feel good for me as a person as a woman, too. It feels better to be a respectful person than a shrieking nagging person, right? I'm enjoying me around myself more than I used to. When I was a baby like that. Two words that come to mind this is for the male and female demanding

There wasn't a husband and wife how important when you hear these terms attitude and tone, tone and attitude?

Well, they're certainly important. I. I'm giggling because I'm thinking about how one of the things that we do on our campuses we have I call them cheat phrases, we have these cheap phrases you can use. And they're meant to put your heart. Right, right. So when you like, with children, we teach them to say, Please, and thank you. And we're doing that to teach them to, to have a grateful heart, right? So, but sometimes, you know, has to say, please, thank you, right, and we get that they're like, they're just going through the motions. And I've done the same thing with these phrases, the cheat phrases that are meant to, I like to rely on them to put my heart, right. So one of those

phrases is, so for instance, if my husband is kind of looking to me to, maybe I've been controlling about something in the past, and he doesn't want to be in trouble. So he's like, you know, do you think I should take the car? And now or can I wait till next week? And it's really something he can decide for us? Right? I don't really need to weigh in on that. He's totally competent, more competent than me with cars, right? So I can just say, oh, you know, whatever you think. And sometimes I'll say, you know, I want to use that phrase, like, I know, it's gonna serve me, but I'll say, whatever you think, right. And I'm using the wrong term, when I'm using the right words or the

wrong toe. And it doesn't work really, you know, it's it's a, you do want to put your heart right, of course, as you're saying things if you've been intentional about really making the choices that are going to serve the intimacy, versus maybe being controlling or kind of acting out of your fear, right, which is why all of us get controlling, it's always about being afraid.

What advice would you give right now, if there's someone tuning in, they've already lawyered up. But now she's tuning into the show. And the lawyer's advice is, don't talk to him, don't talk to her. If they need to talk, you need to talk to me. So they already like established that, where they are doing their best to try to avoid any of the to reconciling, come together, because they'll lose the business. They're not in the business of bringing people back together. But we are we're trying to save home savages. So now, so now they're tuning in. But they're at that brink. It's almost over, they already put a down payment. They've already been going to the lawyer, their attorneys, but

we're saying there's hope until the end, what advice would you give Oh, there's so much hope. And I, I think the first thing I want to say is

that I my heartbreaks for write my heartbreaks for her that is a is a terrible, lonely, scary position to be in. And I still remember when I felt really terrified about my marriage ending and how,

yeah, I just saw, I really feel for her being pi, feeling very alone in that situation. And we see this actually, on our campus. We've seen it hundreds and hundreds of times where she's already got a lawyer and he does too, and they're well along. And

we have a specific strategy a specific steps that you can take to not just make your to save your marriage, but really to make it thrive even when it's to that point. Even we've even have students who have gotten divorced, they've gotten completely divorced. And then they've reconciled and remarried and they're there to say it's better than ever. And of course, I you know, if we can save you the pain of that divorce, if we can stand with you and support you, and doing the things that will prevent it. That's always the goal. But not only is there hope, after you have a lawyer, there can even be hope after your divorce

to really Rekindle that love.

How does someone become a coach? How does someone because that's a job for training for someone can go ahead because I'm sure you're spread thin, you know, you're all over the place. But now you're coaching people to kind of also what do they do the coaches they they go ahead and teach people these six intimacy skills and how to save your marriage and be more I think, what were the terms how to be become loved, cherished and adore? Correct? Exactly. Yes. Thank you so much. Yeah, we have about I have about 50 coaches right now and we really need a lot more because it like you say 50% divorce rate and a whole system apparently that's set up to

propel them to divorce. That's what we're up against. So all the coaches, I started out struggling in their marriages, every single one so we don't have any coaches that just said Oh,

I'd like to be able to help people. So I'm just going to learn how to do that. Now, these are all women who also have areas of their marriage that they might have been ashamed to talk about. Where I have a coach whose husband was an alcoholic, I have a coach who's whose husband was physically abusive prior to her learning the six and Missy skills along with the connection framework. And we have a coach who had a restraining order against her husband. So every coach has had some kind of a struggle in her marriage and has had a transformation using her own power. Right. She She did it single handedly, I would say, although we find that once she learns these new ways of being that the

husband then changes to he becomes a better man. Oh, just couple more questions. Before we conclude. You talk about communication being overrated? Oh, yes. Oh,

gosh, my eyes just roll out of my head like that, don't they? Sometimes? Well, because it's another thing that you hear a lot, right? Communication, marriage is all about communication. And of course, as you know, I think communication can be very overrated, especially.

I think what I heard as a woman, and I think what a lot of women hear is like, you've got to tell him how to behave. You've got to tell him what he's doing wrong. You've got to tell him how resentful you are that he's not helping out with the homework or with the house or house we're going over. And, of course, that actually just digs your hole deeper, that's not going to help, there are certain, I guess, I would say ways to communicate that are just very different than anything I ever saw or learned growing up. And what I found when I first started practicing the six intimacy skills, is that I felt almost like a mute because so much of what had been coming out of my mouth when I was

communicating was control. It was disrespect. It was criticism, and it was complaining. And when I stopped, there was hardly anything to say for a while.

Yeah, to what? I still I until

Are you are you kidding?

Wow. That's the powerful. And then what about men? Now? What men? Also, what about working men working to improve the relationship? What could what could men do? Yes.

I struggle with this one. I really do. I'm really in this quandary with this right now. Because of course, men want to save their families also. And of course, it's important to them and

and it's certainly been my experience that the women have so much power along those lines. I'll tell you a story. I heard though. Just recently, from one of my coach trainees, who was saying that for 27 years, you know, in their marriage, she would say I'm, I think we should get divorce, I'm gonna leave you, I think I'm gonna go and he would say no, no, you know, we'll make it it's worth it. Let's save this marriage. And so she would be like, alright, you know, then they kept going. And then he decided one day that he was going to stop taking her bait. I think I think he had even been in a program where they encourage this. He said, he said, Just rack like a man just don't take your

wife's bait. And so the next time she said, Well, you know, I think we better get to, I think I'm I'm going to leave, and he said to her, don't let the door hit you on the way out. That's what he said. So instead of begging her and saying, Oh, c'mon, trying to persuade her to stay. He just said, Well, alright, yeah. Okay, so then, then you're leavin. Alright, go for it. And she was shocked. She was so shocked. She realized, Oh, I guess this is really odd. Me, I guess I'm going to have to, if I'm going to fix this, I'm gonna have to do something different. She didn't really want to leave. It was a it was an empty threat. And then she did some searching online and she she found some of the

books and programs that we offer and and now she has really restored that marriage, made it we're saving her husband brings her wild flowers and he comes home from work early to be with her and they're really enjoying each other's company after all these years when he you know, 20 I think was 27 years. So, so there's, you know, there's just always so much hope. And I think for a man in some cases, it doesn't. You know, a lot of His power is going to be in how he responds to her.

How she shows up in the marriage. him either

taking the bait or not taking the bait can make a big difference. Wow, Have you have you thought about writing a book?

For men?

That'd be awesome. Like giving these insider tips.

Because I don't have any experience being a man, I only have experienced being a wife. And that's really all I have to share. You. You just gave a good tip right there. I mean, I'm sure you got so many more hacks, as they call it, you know, marriage hacks for marriage hacks for men? Maybe that's the next episode we can do. I'm listening. But how to navigate through some of this from Yeah, for a man. Yeah, I think there's, you know, in some ways, I think men are so great because they are, they just are men, and they know how to be men already. No one has told how to do it. Right. And certainly, as a woman, I'm not gonna be able to tell them how to be husbands or men or fathers.

Right? That's impossible. But

anyway, I just admire how men show up.

They just seem incredibly loyal and dedicated and sacrificing in marriage, if you know how to benefit from that.

Well, thank you very much. Our intention was like, we started to help give good advice to help save the family. Because if the family's broke, society will be broke. And we're going to be so

how can people I know you've translated you made many of your books now on Audible, right, an audio version of the books. Yeah, they want to get a surrendered wife empowered wife. That's exactly right. I recommend the empowered way. It's a little more, it's unabridged, it's more thorough, and it lays out the six intimacy skills, step by step. And I just think the world needs more women who are really making their marriages a priority, treating them as important to make them not just you know, okay, but to really make them last to fortify them. I think, yeah, the world needs more women like that. And the Empowered wife will definitely help you do that.

Thank you very much. Thank you for being with us and sharing that with us. God bless you. Thank you. Thank you. Take care. Bye. Bye. Bye.

And thank you guys for tuning in. Subscribe if you haven't already. To get more of our exciting content, you can check out Laura Doyle's podcast also on YouTube. You can get her book and books, and we see you next time here on a D show. Until then, Peace be with you a Salaam Alaikum