A Look into the Anti-Islam Christians POST PBD Podcast Debate YOU SOUND BITTER & UPSET
Channel: The Deen Show
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Could we accept with a site called Jew watch answer that Patrick. Ben David responds. You sound bitter 2005 You had to flee the country. Yeah, a few moments later for me, for example, why I left Morocco. Why? Why? Why? Yeah.
I lived as a home loose.
I lived as a home loose. Well, you're a liar. You're a liar. You're a liar. To put it bluntly. He is a liar. It's interesting how when a conversation is about Islam, we focus on that 5% and 790 5% seen firsthand the mechanisms of an industry that weaponizes hate now a devout Christian convert, warning the world. Islam is out to destroy you either and apply to me levena Cafaro Bouffard honorable report. That's how you recite the Quran. I know the Quran inside out. This guy right here is trying to build a Dallas engineer country. I'm not talking to you right now. You're a solo. You're trying to build a Dallas center here. Islam is violent. Salaam Alaikum. Brothers and sisters, this is
exactly why we need the deen center because we have over 300 million Americans who know nothing about Islam like this guy.
Build a data center in our country from Surah nine is the most violent chapter of the Quran. The dissenter will be a source of light, a mega Dawa center and educational center, helping our brothers and sisters in humanity. truly understand Islam and Muslims and brothers and sisters. Remember the great rewards of just guiding one person to humanity to the truth is better than everything in this dunya so get in on all the rewards and blessings. Click the link below donate right now may God Almighty Allah reward all of you.
Bismillah Alhamdulillah wa salam aleikum. Greetings, peace, everybody. So recently, we had the discussion with turn into a debate of the year with Daniel and Jake and the two gentlemen from the Islamophobic industry. Now when we say career Islamophobes This is how they bring food to the table. So we're going to be going over bits and pieces of the actual discussion to debate with Daniel and Jake here on the D show post analysis of this event this that happened and I want to before they come out, we're going to get into because integrity is very important. We need to be honest, we need to be people who speak the truth, because we follow ourselves we follow Prophet, Prophet Muhammad,
who was known as El Amin, even before the revelation came down his community known knew him as the most trustworthy so that's how we have to be as Muslims. But now the people that we're dealing with are the people who are in this for the money as we talking about one of the gentlemen who was on the program going to have my guests react to this we'll get into this video, and we'll get right to it wasting no time.
How much respect for the faith of Islam Show? Welcome to the deen show? The Deen show.
Then I had to leave my family actually they rejected me. I lived as a homeless for two years. And I had to live underground with the Moroccan church the converse until 2000 to 2005 I had to flee the country to dazzle Fabia to flee the country. Yeah, a few moments later for me, for example, why I left Morocco. Why, why? Why? Yeah, I love Morocco. I would live I would love to live among my family, but I left not because of the economy. I was doing well. But because I don't have freedom of religion.
I lived as a home loose.
I lived as a home loose Well, you're a liar. You're a liar. You're a liar. To put it bluntly. He is a liar. I Salonika repeats How are you guys doing?
La wasted no time you guys just saw this video. What does this video highlight to you guys? What do you what do you what is behind? There's two things here. One he's talking about that he was homeless. And that's why he left and the other one he was doing quite well. What are your comments on this? Jake, Daniel.
I don't know what to think of other than like the clip says it just seems like he's lying. It seems like he's got an inconsistent story and inconsistent narrative that he's trying to spin. I think there's a couple other examples that we could point to if we really scrub the video as well. And I don't know what his
motive is I mean, we can speak a bit more about what are maybe some of the underlying motives that he has or people like him have.
But for me, I think it's very clear. He's trying to tell a sob story, right? On the one hand, he's trying to gain emotional support from the audience when he's talking about how he was homeless and how he had to live like this and how he such and such. And then when it comes to another issue, where we're talking about moving to
non Muslim lands or moving to Muslim lands, he tells an entirely different story, right? And so it just seems like he's trying to create a narrative based on the conversation to put things in his favor.
Yeah, while he was crying, for the two hours, I felt like handing him a tissue like he was really seem to be getting out a lot of emotional trauma. And when you're really traumatized, like our poor brother Rashid, quote, unquote, maybe your memory just goes faulty, like you can actually correctly recall or accurately recall what's happened to your life. Were you homeless? Were you doing well? Sometimes trauma does that to you? I don't know.
We were just talking about
me and, Jake, that some people now when you go ahead, and you give them the correct information, when you explain things, the consensus of, of the scholarly tradition, what not, someone might not know. But people like this, what does it mean to be a career I mean, I really want people to understand this career Islamophobes people who make a living off of this, this is something I'm going to read this tweet here, this will kind of push push at home and I want to really get your guys feedback on this. This is something that that I want really people to understand. This is not just your average person who might even just have a dislike towards Islam. This is people these are
people who are in the industry, this hate industry. This really hit home for me and I'll get you guys and we can go from here having lived through this is from a director of he's a professor Almira colon. He says having lived commenting on this having lived through the Bosnian war, I've seen firsthand the mechanisms of an industry that weaponizes hate exploiting fears and divisions for its benefit. The recent debates between Muslims and Christians challenge an industry of hate that thrives on misinformation and ensuring fear that pads their profits. Islam encourages dialogue and emphasizes seeking common good as mentioned in the Quran. So people have the book come to a common
turns between us and you. Starting from the belief in God to family values is a lot of stuff that you guys talked about. Also, down to the basics of being good neighbors, there is much that we can't we couldn't be working on to find common terms. Today's digital age amplifies division, divisive voices of panic and fear genuine cont processions are a powerful powerful conduit counterbalance to that agenda of hate. Just watch how different folks react to the call for dialogue. It's pretty revealing you can easily spot those with a hidden agenda, pushing their narrative and stirring the pot in these already murky waters. Go ahead, brothers take it away.
Yeah, the Islamophobia industry is something that came out of 911, basically, post 911, you had these Zionist groups that wanted to ramp up hatred for Muslims so that the American and European populations would be more and more in favor of continuous war in the Middle East, and also this war on quote unquote, terror around the world so that Muslim countries would also adopt these kinds of measures and policies to restrict any kind of Islamic view that contradicted liberalism or contradicted this type of secularism that is in favor of American and Israeli interests. Basically, if Muslims organize politically and they create their own states, or they create, you know, they
they pursue Lofa or pursue Sharia Islamic law and their nations then that is going to cause a geopolitical challenge to Israel. It's going to cause a geopolitical challenge to Western interests, capitalist interests. So it has to be stopped ideologically and politically. So you have this quote unquote war on terror. Your you want to just constantly be invading the Middle East, invading Muslim countries and then all
I also have the justification for limiting Islamic education attacking any kind of Muslims over in Muslim countries who are talking about political Islam or setting up Islamic government or setting up any lava, you want to basically stop that. And how do you do it? You have to have a media strategy, you have to have obviously a political strategy, you have to have this global international law strategy. But in terms of media strategy, people like Robert Spencer, people like Pamela Geller,
all these kinds of Islamophobes were propped up as quote unquote, experts in Islam. And the whole expertise is on being able to point to the Quran and Hadith and Islamic texts and say, See, Islam is all about terrorism. It's not about promoting terrorism. This is why we're justified in preemptively monitoring, surveilling, detaining, putting on watch lists, putting on no fly lists, Muslims in the west and also in Muslim countries. Anyone who expresses any kind of you know, political Islamic idea or ideal talks about the left talks about Shetty out, these are terrorists, they are planning or they're they think it's valid to do terrorism, therefore, we're justified like in terms of pre crime
before they even do anything, we're justified in putting in place all these measures against them in order to neutralize them. So that's, in a nutshell what the motivation is to create this Islamophobia industry portray Muslims as terrorists portraying Muslims as these kinds of potential terrorists who are going to attack innocent people or civilians or whatever. And they also this justifies liberalisation of Islam. We want to liberalize Islam, Muslims accept liberal ideals, Secular ideals, they don't talk about Sharia, we don't want them talking about Khilafah or anything like that. We want them to just be you know, liberal citizens who, you know, maybe celebrate
Ramadan, you know, just like, you have these liberal Christians or you have liberal Jews or you have liberal Hindus, like the religion doesn't mean anything other than celebrating certain holidays, maybe you were ethnic clothing and you, you know, eat shawarma or samosa, that's what it means to be a Muslim, that that's what they want to do for the Muslim community. And the war on terror. And the Islamophobia machine pushes Muslims in that direction because Muslims are afraid to
or their plan is for Muslims to be afraid to express the basic tenants of our religion and things that conflict with the lib overall liberal secular worldview. Here are some of those. You mentioned. A couple of them here's
the person that was out to debate. Can you guys see this? Yep. And you have a right next to him. There's another individual and we just showed this video showing what seems to be a lie being caught out in a lie I want to I want to get into this person will lead he's also somebody who is very active and probably a friend of
Roberts, let's get into this and get your guy's reaction to terrorism expert has become a cottage industry since 911. The Department of Homeland Security has spent nearly $40 million on counterterrorism training just since 2006. DHS doesn't keep records on how much is spent just on speakers, but some of the so called experts who go around the country teaching and in some cases, preaching about terrorism and the dangers of Islam are not quite what they seem. People it turns out, like Walid Shabbat, the first thing I want to ask is What was the purpose of your talk this morning to these cops and emergency responders here in South Dakota? Well, being an ex terrorist
myself, is to understand the mindset of the terrorists number one and ex terrorist. It's Walid Shabbats claim to fame, a terrorist a PLO member who bombed a branch of an Israeli bank in Bethlehem square throwing a firebomb on the banks roof. The problem with the story with a lot of shoe bots stories, there's no evidence for them. And despite CNN many requests, neither Shabbat nor his business partner have provided us with any bombings in Bethlehem square you specifically said you threw the bank wasn't in the Bethlehem square you threw explosives yes I did. On top of that bank yes I did. Know wreck CNN is Jerusalem Bureau went to great lengths trying to verify shoebox story.
Finding the general location with a branch of Bank Leumi. One stood but not finding anyone
Who could remember a bombing? We contacted the bank headquarters in Tel Aviv, asking officials to search records. No records found, and Israeli police found no record. Anyone ever threw a bomb at the branch of the bank. Why would the bank not have a record? Why would the Israeli police not have a record? What was the Israeli police did have a record? I don't know. I mean, I don't know where you check what dates all these things. There's another part of his story that doesn't check out. Shabbat says he was arrested and spent two weeks in an Israeli prison. There's no record of you being in prison. I think there'd be at least an arrest record. They held you for two weeks. With the
United States. No, you're in prison.
How about me and you go to the Muskoka prison and extract the records? The records are there.
Okay, would you be willing to do so? We did. And the Israeli detention center could find no record of detaining anyone with the name Walid Shiva. Yeah, you I mean, you obviously can see why people are critical of of your claims. There's a whole lot of gaps in your story. There's no caps. We don't have a bank bombing. And we don't have a terrorist because it turns out while each Shabbat, even on his own admission, was never charged. I wasn't present for a few weeks. Was there a charge? No, I was a US citizen. Remember, I was born by an American mother. The other
conspirators in the ACT ended up in jail I ended up being released there's another problem his family in the neighborhood where Waleed Shabbat grew up relative say he was just a regular kid and dilute Shabbat for says he is Wally's fourth cousin goes even further, because we'll do
the only two banks in Bethlehem district and they are bank laomi and discount bank. They were on nativity square. And Waleed never had any connection with those two banks. Not a close or a distant connection. I tell you, this is out of experience. And one of the people who are considered responsible man in the area of Bethlehem or Betsa, who I've never heard anything about Waleed being a Mujahid or a terrorist. He claims this for his own personal reasons. So we can see a pattern that just like the first guy here, he's making certain claims, and then getting caught out slowly. I'm sure if you dig if you go deeper, you're gonna find more lies. And this is one of the people in that
same network being called out who's actually out there. He's in front of these agencies saying that all Muslim organizations need to be investigated portrays himself as a man converted and on a mission. Once a Jew hating, bomb throwing terrorist, now a devout Christian convert, warning the world. Islam is out to destroy you either and apply to me levena Cafaro Bouffard honorable report. That's how you recite the Quran. I know the Quran Inside Out
English. And if you meet the unbelievers then smite off their next
what part of smart off their necks.
The Americans don't understand his message before a largely positive crowd of cops and emergency responders at this South Dakota Homeland Security Conference. Trust no Muslim, especially those who organize know your enemy. Know your enemy.
All Islamist organizations in America should be the number one enemy of the Islamist organization, Islamic Society of North America should be focused on you got that on camera? Yes, please. He is being paid $5,000 Plus expenses to speak here with your tax dollars. He was also given a Rapid City police guard during his time in the city, all Muslims, you can't trust them. And he's preaching the same thing like the person that you guys were debating you saying the same exact thing. And he gets caught out as a liar pretty much just ends his career. But where are the people vetting these so called terrorism experts that are suddenly making a lot of money in this country? What do you guys
Yeah, I mean, I would say I think it's par for the course right? With these kinds of people. They're not trustworthy, we can't we can't trust them at all. We see time and time again that they get caught up in lies. And I was mentioning one example of that earlier actually to Eddie. During the discussion, which I actually didn't notice. I'm not sure if Daniel notice it or not. When so called brother Rashid was trying to bring up an example when I was speaking about the violence in war and the killing of infants being targeted and more in the Old Testament in First Samuel 15. And I I made the claim that you find no such
assertions or commands from God or the Prophet, peace be upon him.
In the Quran, or sunnah, and he laughed, and he said, Oh, it's not in the Sunnah. And then he tried to bring a hadith where he was claiming that you could find that. But if you go back to the tape and watch when they actually read it, they, Robert Spencer actually read the heading of the Hadith, in which it said something to the effect of killing these people unintentionally, not intentionally. So the reason why I bring that up is because it's not as if they weren't aware of that. It's not as if they're not aware of the other Hadith that explicitly teach that you are not allowed to kill non combatants, women and children and infants during war. They are aware of it, and they've probably
been corrected about it before. But yet they continue to lie about these things. Because as you're mentioning, Eddie, they get paid, they get funded by these different organizations, and they make money off these speaking events and different venues that they attend. And that's why they need the lies to continue. So even when they're corrected. And even when after this video comes out. And they're corrected again, they will continue to make the same assertions and the same lies about Islam and what Islam teaches.
Yeah, I mean, they have no shame. Like, what kind of ethics do these people have? Like, it doesn't seem that they're real Christians. That don't, you know, are they atheists? I mean, this is one of the things that people have brought up with Rasheed, you know, one of those guys is, Is he really a Christian? Like? Jake asked him like, what church do you go to? And he seemed like he was a deer caught in the headlights. Rasheed. I know that Robert here is Eastern Orthodoxy. He used to be Catholic, what denomination or sect of Christianity you belong to. Because we are converse in Morocco. We don't follow anything. We just follow him saying like, do you go to a specific church? I
meant went to many orthodox Protestant, I don't care. Okay. I didn't really have a straight answer. Like, Christians go to church, like regularly, they're supposed to practicing Christians, they go to one church for an extended period of time. If they move, maybe they'll go to another church, but they have they're associated with a church. He couldn't give an answer to that. And people were saying, is this guy really a Christian? Maybe he's an atheist. So what kind of ethics do they have? Like I know Christian people, and usually they won't just lie to your face like blatant lie. So yeah, and maybe that's the source of their creativity with The truth is that they don't have any
kind of principle of honesty or truthfulness or trustworthiness that they abide by. That's probably the best explanation. And if you can get paid to lie, then nothing's holding you back. They just go for it.
We had some recent developments, also of one of the panelists, insulting coming out insulting Patrick Patrick, who did a great job feel he was very you guys also feel as myself he was very fair and balanced. He did a great job. And then we have this coming up. What do you guys thoughts? And Patrick, Ben, David responds, you sound bitter after he was insulted. You sound bitter and frustrated, you were given an opportunity to come and discuss the differences between Islam and Christianity, they seem prepared with pointed questions to ask you while you seem defensive, being upset with your performance is understandable. Yeah, I mean, listen.
Robert was completely out of line, initially, and I checked his Twitter account, he seemed to be fairly quiet on Friday, but for whatever reason, I don't know I guess he woke up on the wrong side of the bed on Saturday, or maybe he finally came to the realization that he did terribly in the discussion and that many Christians even were coming to inform him of that, that he started attacking various people, not only Patrick, but chose to sort of at random attack, Patrick, it was totally uncalled for. Of course, we from the Muslim side, do not support Robert doing that whatsoever. As we said numerous times and we'll say it again here. Although Patrick is a Christian,
and he may have certain biases, he did not display them at all. During the discussion he invited to Muslims and to Christians to a large platform gave everyone an equal opportunity to speak and share their ideas. No matter if he agreed with them or not. I'm sure there he didn't agree with any of the four of us 100% But he allowed
Out of everyone equal opportunity to speak. And for Robert to have a complete meltdown, like a baby like a sore loser on Twitter and come out and attack the Christian host who invited you to a large platform to share your ideas, even if he doesn't agree with everything that you have to say, and remained fair and balanced all throughout the discussion for you then to publicly attack him without just cause without justification whatsoever, is completely ridiculous. And it makes him look worse than he already had before that I mean, he should have just taken the L, he should have just taken the loss, taken his ball and went home, and you know, just cried in his own home. But instead, he
had to go to Twitter and start attacking people that shouldn't have been attacked. And Patrick's response. I mean, you know, shout out to him. It was perfect, right? He said, Look, if I were you with that performance, I would be frustrated, right? I would be disappointed. This is basically what he's telling them. And he hadn't voiced that that clearly before. But since you attacked him, he lets you know, hey, look, this is exactly what it is. I gave you an opportunity to come on. You drop the ball. That's your problem. Don't blame me.
Before we go into this next clip, I want to make just something I point something else as I opened up the program I spoke about the character of Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon the last and final messenger sent to mankind, his trustworthiness known as a Lamine, there, is this this constant attack that they put out there this term takia. And we know this is something that is not a part of the Muslim community. This is a sect of Shiai who use this term. And this is not something that Muslims to try to persuade someone to come to their religion, they're going to use deceptive. Ly lying What are your guys? Because then you get to a you get to a place where how can you develop
trust when you constantly they put this in the back of your head, like these guys are just lying to me. If this I don't think this came up during the discussion, but it's something that's very important might be many people, maybe some Christians out there, they've heard this repeated by one of the panelists over and over and over. How do you like to address this Daniel?
Address the lying the term? Yeah. Yeah, do you can't trust these Muslims? You know, just lying to you. They're liars? I mean,
how could we be liars? When we told them exactly what they asked us? They asked us about violence. They asked us about certain punishments and laws, and we explained them, you know, we didn't deny those certain accusations that they made about Islam, what they're what who's the actual liars in the conversation or them they're doing the actual Tapia because they, you know, we can ask them about the Bible, we can ask them about Christian history, we can ask them about their church, you know, the Orthodox Church and what the Orthodox Church is doing in different parts of the world, or what the Orthodox Church is doing in supporting Russia, and its ongoing engagement in Eastern
Europe. When asked we asked them about all those things, they were less than forthcoming, they were less than forthright in giving us answers. And it was it came across clearly to the audience both Muslim Christian non Muslim that these guys are hiding something these guys don't want to give a straight answer. They're just dancing around the issue and not giving a straight answer. So that's that's tough. Yeah. And they're the ones who are doing tough Yeah, they're hiding their liberal secular even atheistic tendencies and pretending to be something that they're not which are which is Christian with this because you're an expert there in the Bible. You come from a background former
Christian, Jake, tell me we don't have anything obviously there is there is there are some there are some exceptions. And many know this so when you're trying to reconcile between people to family members, you're allowed to go ahead and you know to bring them together
you're you're allowed to
when your wife cooks you a good meal or and you don't like maybe she put too much salt in it you're like yeah, it was great baby it was wonderful but you're actually not telling the truth. When the Muslims when the Jews were coming over and they were being persecuted by by the Christians actually then the Muslims were hiding them and Albania and Bosnia and Turkey many places all over the world. They were actually when they would come knock on the door say do you have any juice here and it was like no to save their lives. So this was something allow but
Jake, when you see this here with this constitutes something what they're trying to
See, I just hate doing this. I don't want to offend any Christians or anybody. But, you know, when these people throw stones out of a glass house, how would this be interpreted here? Well, how do what's the proper interpretation of this? Yeah, for the truth of God have more abounded through my lie on to his glory. Why am I also judged as a sinner? And Paul is asking this question, sort of rhetorically, he's he's, it seems like he's saying, Well, it's, it's okay to lie in order to win over sinners. What's the problem because you're, you're achieving a greater good. And there's also another text Edie, which is in first Corinthians chapter nine, verse 20, which says, and this is
Paul against supposedly speaking to the Jews, I became like a Jew, to when the Jews to those under the law, I became like one under the law, though I myself and not under the law to win those under the law. To those without the law, I became like one without the law, though I am not outside the law of God, but under the law of Christ, to win those without the law. So basically, you know, he's saying to the Jew, he acts like a Jew, like he's, he acts as if he is under the law with the Jews, and then with the Gentiles? Well, he's not really under the law. So he acts as if he's not really under the law. Right? So, I mean, really, and I think what Eddie is trying to highlight here, is
that at the very least, if the Christians want to play the game of the PA, and that Muslims are liars, and you know, we're just misrepresented in our own religion to take advantage of people and intellectually manipulate people. All of that, first of all, it's false. We have the Hadith, which Edie was referencing, about the situations in which you can lie, right to reconcile between believers, to a spouse in the case of what you've mentioned, right? Or if it's, it's specifically in the case of warfare, right. And those are the only exceptions, then we have all sorts of other prohibitions about lying, and about the position of the liar in the religion, it's not a good
position for a liar, trust me. But if you want to, as you said, you want to throw rocks from a glass house? Well, we can go to texts, like First Corinthians nine did to the Jew, Paul acts like a Jew. Well, then when he's with the Gentile, he's acting like the Gentiles. He's as he under the law, or is he not under the law? Right. And this was a big controversy in early Christianity. So like you said, if they want to play that game, right, and you know, we can quote these verses and say, Look, if anything, Paul and what you find in the New Testament, you guys have a problem with this concept of PA, not us.
Yeah, and only bring this out to to point out the inconsistency and to point out, you know, these double standards and to point out, you know, the hypocrisy is clearly and so hopefully, people can see this and they cannot get swept away with many of their this empty rhetoric that they put our spouse out there. Let me go into the next clip. You want to grow your numbers and the grow the Christian population, I want to help Christians grow because I think a world that has more Christians is better than a world that has more atheists. But how can you have more Christians, when you don't really believe in the Bible, we have the seeds of the destruction of Christianity, right
in this podcast, because when you look at the way that Robert and Rasheed describe the Bible, they describe it as a book of fables. And it can continue to evolve and say that this is going to this is going to not realize apostasy, this is going to cause a decrease in faith, like why should I take Christianity seriously, when it just evolves, and it changes over time? I can't connect my practices and my beliefs as a Christian today with the historical Jesus. So why am I going to maintain myself as a Christian, and then the also the whole theology which we haven't discussed? Today, like the 95, monotheism is 80 to 90% of the world believes in monotheism in one God. And monotheism is a central
crucial, the most important part of Islam the belief in one God without partners, he is not like anything. This is a very powerful belief that 80 to 90% of human beings profess in this day and age. And Islam represents that in his theology and emphasizes that in its theology, but if you have a trinity or you have a theology that is not really clear as Jesus God, is there a Godhead, is there, this other system, do we go by the Catholics, or do you go by the Orthodox and we go by the Protestants, you don't have a consistent theology, Sunnis and Shias, they all agree on the on monotheism God is one he is not like anything they agree on the
are on. Yeah, there can be some theological differences and nuances between different schools. But there's not the same kind of disparity or variance between Christian sects. And this idea of the Trinity, which, frankly, no one can understand like, what does it mean to be three and one? So, some of call both of you guys, the defenders, especially Daniel, with the statement, defenders of Christian traditionalism, I think many Christians out there, they were respecting this, this position here. And they were actually what we were seeing, were you guys seeing the same thing that many Christians were very appalled at the direction they were going, they were pretty much throwing
the Bible under the bus. And some people would say, actually, these things never happened at all. That they were. They were they were fables. What do you guys?
What do you guys think? Yeah, I think that
they were, surprisingly, non reverential and non disrespectful to the Bible. It seems like the Bible is not a part of their lives. They don't take the Bible very seriously. Robert didn't really have a seem to have much respect for the Bible, because he was talking about it in this very disrespectful way. And a lot of the Christian viewers that might have reached out to Eddie, or they were commenting online, said that they were very offended. And they were offended and shocked. And they said that this person does not represent our religion. T does not represent a true Christian. So I think that's a fair critique of Robert. But our whole strategy with me and Jake, is we wanted to
bring that out. We wanted to bring out through the things that we were asking, and through the way that we were addressing their challenges to Islam. We wanted to bring out their hypocrisy and lay it bare for the world to see that these Islamophobes are just liberal secularists, they're not actually traditional Christians, if they were traditional Christians, they could bring arguments against Islam from the Bible, they could bring arguments against Islam from the church tradition, perhaps maybe they could bring in those kinds of arguments. And we could have a nice discussion about the nature of the Trinity versus Tohei. Like that kind of theological debate or discussion. Instead,
they're bringing arguments from atheists, they're bringing arguments from sect liberal secularism, oh, Islam is violent, Islam does not respect, freedom of religion, freedom of speech, and so forth. So this, this exposes their hypocrisy, and it makes it very easy for me and Jake, to just knock all of their arguments down, because that's exactly what we had anticipated. Right? And, yeah, just add one thing there. Which is, which is important. And it's related to Patrick bet, David, the hosts goals, which is building bridges. I mean, they want to talk about they can't build bridges with us for for their reasons, but their reasons are based on as Daniel was saying secular liberal values,
the problem that we have with them, and why it's difficult to build bridges, in the sense with those not Christians, in general with those two specific individuals, is because it's almost as if we have to teach them what their own Bible and what their own tradition teaches, then get them to accept it, and see that that's actually more in line with what the Quran and the Islamic tradition teaches. Right. So it's almost like we have to teach them their religion first, so that they can actually see what the commonalities we have between traditional Christianity and traditional Assam. But these two guys, unfortunately, either they're just completely ignorant of their own tradition, and Bible,
their own scriptures, or they're dishonest, or maybe a combination of both. But unfortunately, with them, the difficulty we had is we kind of have to teach them what they should believe, based on what their texts and what their own tradition says, as opposed to these secular liberal values that they're coming to the table with, because of course, no, we were not in line with them. Islam will never be in line with them. And we're not going to compromise on those things. So we're trying to show them from their own scripture and their own tradition. Right, that it's actually more in line with the traditional Islamic values. He's been cited by terrorists now. Anders Brevik. Okay. About
100 People in Norway. He spied on Robert Spencer, he said, Read everything from Robert Spencer about Islam by gonna get him Doris Schreiber's keeps multiplying offerings. And so you have to allow for some time we accept with a site called Jew watch answer that. So if the site has first of all profile
was on pretty much every speaker like every American Muslim Speaker I think is featured. So his claim that oh, we only monitor terrorists. How are we How am I a terrorist? For example, do I have I committed any kind of terroristic act or advocated any kind of terroristic act? All right denounced terrorism, but I'm featured on your site. So what exactly is the criminal activity that,
you know, makes me deserve to be on his site.
Other speakers who have condemned terrorism, they're very mainstream speakers I completely disagree with they're featured on the site as well. They're like, as far away from terrorism or criminality as you can possibly be. Robert Spencer portrays them as terrorists or potential terrorists on his Jihad watch. So this is a complete lie. He is really a sleazy human being excuse for a human being. And I gave examples of how he will have reports on his site of just someone with a Middle Eastern name. Who doesn't, hasn't declared jihad hasn't declared any kind of allegiance to Islam. But oh, it goes on Jihad watch, because this is a Middle Eastern name, who has committed some crime, some
violent crime, therefore, he must be a jihadi i This is such clear racism, such clear bigotry, and he's a sleaze bag. I don't know how else to say it. Like you sit there in that podcast and lie to our faces and lie to the audience like, because at one point, he was saying that oh, yeah, it's really unfortunate what happened with this counter terrorism efforts or the war on terror, etc. And to pretend like he was against the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan, and like, he was just whitewashing his entire history. And Hamdulillah, you know, we got an opportunity to point out his lies. But really, just so shameless. I'm glad that his career is is pretty much wrapping up now,
because of this backlash from his terrible performance. You mentioned also there in the discussion that there was a report of someone who came out and they said it was a Muslim who did some some, some crimes. And it ended up being someone out it wasn't a Muslim, he just put put, because he had an he had, he was an immigrant. Can you talk about that? Yeah, there was a Syrian immigrant in France, who started stabbing people on a playground in France. And the news reports came out and immediately Spencer puts out a tweet saying, oh, jihad, you know, this is a jihadi killing children at a playground. I don't remember the exact wording. But I can send you the tweets if you want to
look at it more closely. But he says like, Oh, this is almost some then in a few hours later, the reports in the news are saying that this is Abdullah Mercia, that's the name of the guy Abdullah mercy. He's a Christian, you know, slave of the Messiah. That's the translation of Abdullah Mercia, he's Syrian, but he's a Syrian Christian, not a Syrian Muslim. So then Spencer put out a partial retraction saying, okay, it seems like this is a Christian. But then he doubled down and he put out another tweet and another Jihad watch article, saying, Oh, actually, this was a Muslim. This was a Muslim based on what because all of the news reports from the BBC from France 24, from even CNN, I
think we're saying though, this is a Christian, Syrian immigrant. So what how On what basis is Spencer and Jihad watch saying that this is a Muslim? You go to the article, and the article just has one source. It's a French blog. That is like just a random blog that says, Oh, we contacted the cousin, there's there was a cousin of this, Abdullah Massey, who says, No, actually, this he's a Muslim. He's not a Christian. And it's just like, based on some random person, unknown person's testimony that oh, he's actually a Muslim. So on that basis, Jihad Watch says, No, we were right. The first time this is actually a Muslim, terrorist, immigrant who stabbing little children, like
that's the level of hatred that they have for Muslims, that they will defy all kinds of journalistic standards, all kinds of standards of honesty and decency. They'll even go against the mainstream media, just so that they can put out this message that Muslims are terrorists, Muslims are bloodthirsty killers, even when there are clear examples that go contrary to their narrative. So how about what did you mean when he said okay, if you had a site called Jew watch or black watcher
Yeah, I mean, what so
Imagine like any Jewish person commits a crime. And we say up this is a crime from Jews. This represents the Bible. This represents the Talmud because in the Bible, there is a there is violence in the Bible, you know, we read the passages, or there are verses that say, this or that, that seem to endorse criminal behavior, violent behavior, therefore, this is biblical violence. This is Judaic violence and any Jew that commits a crime, any kind of criminal activity, we will pin that on Judaism, and therefore we call it Jew watch, or we'll call it Judaic watch, or well, we'll talk we'll call it Torah watch, or something of that nature. Which would Spencer agree with that kind of
sites? You know, he says, The ADL would the ADL or any of these organizations allowed that? Do you think there was a site like that people to come out and blatantly, you know, allow these people to come out and have a platform and whatnot, I think it'd be a different story, just pointing out the double standards and part clear hypocrisy here. No. Yeah, I mean, I think it's pretty blatant. Nothing like his site and his tweets when he posts Oh, a Muslim jihadi did this. Where's the proof that this person is actually a practicing believing Muslim? Is it just based on the name? In most of the cases, there's not a manifesto or there's nothing that Spencer is so unhinged and detached from
reality that in one discussion that he had, he claims that since 911, there has there have been 40,000 jihadi attacks in the world? 40,000 since 911. So maybe if you are a bigot, or you're stupid, that sounds plausible. For you, Oh, 40,000. Since 911, it's been 22 years. So I guess that's possible. But then you do the math. And then you realize that well, since 911, there's only 8000 days that have passed since 911 22 years ago. 8000 days divided by 40, or 40,000, divided by 8000. That means there's five jihadi attacks every single day continuously since 911. Like that's what is implied on average are five jihadi attacks. So this is just a made up stats made up numbers made up,
you know, terrorists. Anyone who has a foreign name, Oh, this must be a jihadi militants. He's probably counting the guy who was on the CNN, he's did a lot of them.
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. At least 20,000 from with each shoe, but obviously.
Yeah, but there's also something else, Daniel that I would like to comment.
As you mentioned, in part of the discussion, you brought up his articles that he's written on you these these four articles that he has on his website. And you you can confirm because this happened, you guys didn't see it live on air. But immediately after we went live, or we were off the program, Robert Spencer admitted that he had not even read the articles, right. And yet, he was trying to convince Daniel and the audience that Oh, everything in the articles that is there that I've said about Daniel, or that is written on the side about Daniel is true. And there's no question about it, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But then later, on the cameras off, he admits that he hasn't even
read the articles. Right. So how is that the case that he knows everything in there is true? He hasn't even read it? Well, that just goes again to his dishonesty. He's not honest at all. He has no integrity whatsoever, and even double down on it. Well, yeah, even though I didn't read it. I'm sure it's 100% true on you anyway. So this is the kind of person this is the kind of slimeball that we are dealing with Pete here. And I don't think people really fully realize that, that this man has no problem lying straight to your face. No, I don't think it is. So is it inherently immoral? Yes or no? Can it? Yes, it is. It is. So when the Bible when Deuteronomy since you'd like to quote the
Koran when the Bible says this in Deuteronomy 13, six, if your brother the son of your mother, your son of or your son of your daughter, the wife of your bosom, or your friend, who has as your own soul secretly entices you, saying, quote, let us go and serve other gods which you have not known. Neither you nor your fathers of the gods of the people which are all around you, nearer to you, or far from you from one end of the earth to the other end of the earth. You shall not consent to him or listen to him, nor shall your I pity him, nor shall you
You spare him or conceal him, but you shall surely kill him. Your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people, and you shall stone him with stones until he dies, because he sought to entice you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt from the house of bondage. So all Israel shall hear and fear and not again, do such wickedness as this among you. So when the meet and let me finish the passage. So when you're loving God, Jesus Christ, who you believe is God who revealed the Old Testament, and revealed this as a law for the people, and you said that it's inherently immoral for the punishment of apostasy to
be death, then you are charging your own god and supposedly loving Jesus within morality? Not at all. If you don't see that contradiction and hypocrisy, it's not in the late really do much for you. Well, it's not in the least contradictory or hypocritical, because that is God actually ordering something wrong for that. Now, the question here, the point for the audience, the point that you were trying to drive home, can you go ahead, explain that? Yeah, the point I was trying to drive home is that people like Robert Spencer, and Rashid and some some of these other Islamophobes, they tried to say that Islam is false, or Islam is invalidated in virtue of these supposedly violent
themes that you can find in Islamic doctrine with jihad, or with the concept of capital punishment for certain crimes. Because Islam has those doctrines and those laws and legislatures, these punishments that seem harsh, that's immoral and wrong. And because of that, right, that means that Islam is false. It's invalidated, and people should not follow Islam, people should not be Muslim. And what I'm trying to point out is, if your argument is true, if you were consistent, then you'd have to reject Christianity and Judaism for the same reason. But because you don't, that shows that you're a hypocrite. And one of two things, either you're just doing this to, you know, cast doubt on
Islam and try to condemn Muslims, right, in a dishonest fashion. Or you don't actually believe in your own Bible, you don't actually believe in your own scripture and tradition, and therefore, in what sense? Are you even defending Christianity or Judaism, for that matter? You're not at all. In fact, you're more like a liberal secularist. And that's why Robert and other Christians like this guy, inspiring philosophy that Daniel also debated. They're just liberals, right? They're just clear, liberals. And what they do is they say, Oh, well, this is just poetic language. In the Old Testament, these weren't really commands for the people. This was just poetic language. These are
just stories or fables that are meant to, you know, present us with certain lessons that we can learn from these stories. But maybe they didn't even happen and their historicity is in question. We're not really sure if they happened, or maybe they killed a couple of people, but they didn't kill any infants. This is what they're trying to say. And it's just a lie, right? If you go to their actual
church fathers, and how they interpreted these texts, and how they these texts were interpreted by a Pope's, for example, used to sanction warfare against Muslims are what they call the Saracens at the time, it's very clear that that's the case. And they're just totally opposed to it. So they have one of two things. Either they can throw their Bible under the bus, which they did, or they can stop using these terrible arguments against Islam. And let's get to the real issues. Let's debate over whether Christianity or Islam is true. And based on fundamental principles like Tawheed, and all of the other things that we would like the opportunity to speak more about in the future in sha Allah
to say to them, what's your response to them? Yeah, so just to a few points here. Number one, it's interesting how we want to talk about Islam as a religion. But we the religion is 95%, like what Jake mentioned, it's about worshiping God being devoted to a righteous way of life, loving your neighbors taking care of your parents. That's what 95% of Islam is about. Yes, there are criminal punishments, which we're going to discuss there is conquest there is war theory. There's all of this in Islam. But it's interesting how when a conversation is about Islam, we focus on that 5% and 790 5% of what Islam is about. We don't see this kind of double standard with like Christian so if
you have someone like Matt Walsh, Matt Walsh is a traditional Christian. There's slavery in the Bible. There's punishment for blasphemers. In the Bible, there's killing of heretics and the church.
tradition. There's no discussion of that with Matt Walsh, right? Or Ben Shapiro, there is killing of blasphemers. In the Hebrew Bible, there is, you know, punishments for apostasy in the Talmud. There's no discussion of that with Ben Shapiro, you can talk about, you know, other values. And that's what the discussion focuses on. But the Islamophobic narrative is just lasering in on these specific topics, which is fine, we can discuss that. But I just want to note the double standard. So the other framing of this whole discussion that I want to put out here, though, this is a very important point that I want the audience to understand what you just said, lasering in on this to 3%
the Penal Code of Islam, and forgetting about everything else, the worship of one and only one God, the Creator of the heavens and earth, being morally upright, being good, being good son, a father, a mother, giving a charity, prayer, fasting, all of the things that are out there that we can agree on, you know, to Trisha traditional values of Christianity also has much of this. And you hit this home that they they throw the stones out of a glass house, and I want you to go ahead and and what you were Daniel, when you were saying they laser in on this, they laser in on this? And they put this under a microscope? Isn't this just clear? hypocrisy?
Yeah, I mean, when was the last time you saw Matt Walsh, go on to a podcast or Candace Owens go on to a podcast. They are known to be traditional Christians. You know, they care about the Bible, like that's their whole brand. As traditional Christians, when they go on to, you know, speak on news outlets, or go on other podcasts or interviews. It's not really a discussion about the Bible. It's not really okay, justify why we find these things in your belief system that you profess, in your church tradition of which you follow. They're not really interrogated about that. But Muslims, if a traditional Muslim like me, or Jake or Eddie we go on to any kind of mainstream platform, these are
the things that are definitely going to come up. You know, what about the age of Aisha Radi Allahu anha, when she married the Prophet salallahu Alaihe Salam, are you in favor of quote unquote, child marriage? Are you in favor of blasphemy punishments? These are the things that are focused on why, or a potential rotation of the hand, for example, for theft, these are the things that they focus on. Why because they want to exclude traditional Muslims from the discussion from the mainstream discussion. The only kind of Muslims that are accepted on these mainstream platforms. There's only two kinds. One are the unhinged criminal terroristic crazy types, those will be featured on the
news, those will be featured in interviews, those will be featured in the movies, right? Or the TV shows, or the leftist, pro LGBT feminist Muslim that drinks and alcohol and smokes weed, that type of Muslim those who doesn't really, you know, take Islam seriously. Those are the only types of Muslims that are allowed to be featured on the mainstream in the West. And and increasingly in the east. You know, in some of these Muslim countries as well, there are TV stations are controlled by Western powers or Western influence. They also will not show you know, a traditional Muslim who's intelligent, who can speak on relevant issues that can give a coherent, compelling Islamic message.
They're excluded from the TV cameras, the news channels from the podcast, this is deliberate, like in some of these Muslim countries, they will bring like a che or a scholar to represent the Islamic view. And that che will just be a complete idiot or will just be vulgar oral talk in a way that is, you can say is so stupid, because they want stupidity and vulgarity and all an insanity craziness to be associated with Islam and traditional Islam, that this is a deliberate agenda, and we have to call it out.
And I'm going to show this image now. And this is not as as a joke. This is just a hit the hit this point home. Imagine if Candace Owens came on, like you just said, came on to a platform and they started to pick random verses from the Bible and played this game. And I'm just going to show this image so it can hit home so they can see the hypocrisy. So hopefully this can stop this game. This evil game can stop. So imagine now, because you're you mentioned this, the amputation of the hand for the thief. So imagine someone went in the Bible and they just drilled Candice Owens and there's other verses you know,
that are out there about where Jesus is talking about the person who insults his mother or father. Like imagine, okay, Jesus said in the one who break the command for God for the sake of tradition for God's said, Honor your father and mother and anyone who curses their father mother shall be put to death. I mean, this is Jesus, who we love and revere is one of the mightiest messengers. Imagine that. Or imagine someone came now to Kennesaw and says, How do you explain this? You know, when two men are fighting and the wife of one of the men rescues her husband, So Candace Owens, imagine you're rescuing your husband from a thief who just broken your hose someone from this woke movement
they broke in and they, you grabbed them by the and then this is kind of disturbing even to look at this. But now if you end up cutting off his if she she's the one who's supposed to get her hand cut off for saving her husband, you guys get the point? Yeah, of course. I mean, it's just ridiculous. It's hypocrisy. And that's what we've basically been saying the whole time. A Sharia is to be applied everywhere, every time. And that's the biggest difference with Christianity because Jesus came in he stopped the Old Testament. Do you guys comments? I mean, often when I think of Sharia, people think the boogey man is coming to get you not knowing that the 10 commandments, correct me if
I'm wrong. 10 commands is Sharia, you know, in the Arabic Bible over 200 times should yeah, this is God's law. This is there. So they you know, and he should know that he's an Arabic speaking person. And he's mentioning the term should yeah, like it's something foreign to him. This term. What what do you guys think? When, when when you when you hear that?
Yeah, it's shocking. Like this is a kind of, there was a sect within early Christianity. The Marcia knights, you know, the Marcia knights believe that the Old Testament was an evil text from an evil god. And they rejected the Old Testament entirely. So this morta is basically spreading marcionite ideology or marcionite, like the marcionite sect, has been revived by these liberal Christians, because they're just announcing the Old Testament and they're saying that well, Jesus came and stopped the Old Testament. And this is quite shocking, because even within the Catholic or Orthodox tradition, the idea is not that Jesus came to stop the Old Testament, he has a new covenant, but the
New Covenant covenant doesn't just delete everything in the previous covenant, the ritual law is, is abolished or is abrogated. But that doesn't mean the entirety of the law is abrogated in its entirety. So this is something that is shocking and Rashid's, like this mark that if he's actually a Christian, he is too uneducated to know about these kinds of distinctions and nuances. So it's surprising that he would be brought forward as some kind of expert or representative of Christianity. Every he didn't stone the lady who committed adultery, hygiene. Yeah, no, I just wanted to read one verse from the Bible in that regard, Matthew 517, which as Jesus is speaking, do
not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets, I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them. For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single job, not a stroke of a pen will disappear from the law until everything be fulfilled. Right. So this is these are the words of Jesus. He didn't say. He didn't say what they said about the Old Testament. No, are you kidding me? Jesus was a God fearing Jew. He did. And then the sense of his ethnicity, he did not say, oh, no, you know, just forget about the Old Testament by by that's happened to 3000 years ago and just throw it under the bus. No, he said, Not one jot or one tittle shall pass away from the
law. So we see that actually, it is the Muslims that err on the side of what Jesus says even in their Bible, as opposed to what these liberal so called Christians were trying to defend thoughts every he didn't stone the lady who committed adultery. Take what are your comments here when you hear him when he came up? And he mentioned the adultery or the stoning in thought every he didn't stone the lady who committed adultery to my mind is the authenticity part of it. Isn't it true that this is actually not in the in any part of what you have? Because we don't have a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy according to
traditional Bible scholars, people of course call the gospel books Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Well, they call them Matthew, Mark, Luke and John because we don't know who wrote these books. And there's no point calling them Sam, Fred, Jerry and Harry. I mean, they're, they're written by people we don't know.
They were written by, they are anonymous, you might not think so because they have the title The Gospel According to Matthew, whoever put that title on it was an editor later, the followers of Jesus were Aramaic speaking peasants from Galilee, lower class men who were not educated. In fact, Peter and John in Acts, chapter four, verse 13, are literally said to be illiterate. They couldn't read and write, of course, not. They were fishermen, they didn't go to school, the vast majority of people in the ancient world never learned to read, let alone write. And their native language was Aramaic. These books are written in Greek, by highly educated, rhetorically trained writers who are
skilled in Greek compositions of any original Bible. And this is not even in what we have of any kind of manuscripts. Is that correct? Yeah, of course. I mean, scholars, even conservative Christian scholars of the Bible have recognized that the story that he's mentioned, which is supposed to be in the Gospel of John, is a fabrication. It's an addition to the Gospel of John that was not present in earlier manuscripts. And this is not even just like liberal scholarship of atheists, like Bart, ermine, or anything like that. This is this is from conservative scholarship. In the in the Bible, we had that the stoning of the woman caught in adultery, or the attempt, they're going to stone this
woman to adultery. And a lot of when I read a lot of scholars, they debate whether or not this was an actual text, or this was a later addition, added by a scribe, and I was gonna ask what your opinions on this particular matter were and how to deal with questions about that, how to deal with it? That's a great question. And the answer is, we don't know a whole lot. But what I can tell you is that the majority scholarly opinion right now is that the story of the woman caught in adultery, that Jesus said, You know, he does without sin, let him cast the first stone, that that was not in the original of John and that that's why the brackets are there. And it says this is not found in
the oldest or the most reliable manuscripts. Okay, go ahead and continue doing I just wanted to show this. So this is not Muslim, just conjuring things up lying. I mean, this is the scholars Now today's a consensus. Go ahead. Yeah, exactly. That's right. So
virtually nobody defends the view, that that story is actually authentic and original to the Bible. And so for Rasheed to bring that up and try to make a theological point, based on that just shows how ignorant he is of his own, you know, his own scripture and what his own conservative Christian scholars have to say about it. And it's unfortunate that, you know, as I said, it's the Muslims that were trying to defend the Christian scriptures, and what they actually say, and these guys are bringing up, you know, the ironic part is what actually is authentic. They were calling fables. But then they tried to make a theological point based on a known corruption and addition into the
Scripture, which is a fable. They were fables. Right? So that's the irony there.
Also logically, like logically, would we think that Jesus I said,
peace be upon him was he like against punishing
you know, punishing adultery or punishing fornication or punishing other kinds of deviant sexual behaviors? Would he be against that what they what these liberal Christians want to do is portrayed Jesus as in favor of sexual liberation like modern sexual liberation? Oh Jesus want was fine with like, just a free for all of sexual Liberty like is that that's the way that they're portraying Jesus as this foil to Islam. Oh, Islam has regulations against fornication and adultery and you'll stone the adulterer. Look how barbaric Islam is, as opposed to Jesus, which is who was, you know, in favor of sexual liberation like is that really what we should believe? This is ridiculous. Like this
is not what the actual actual Christians believe like within the Christian tradition, look at Canon Law look at what the Church Fathers say they are completely in favor of punishments for adultery. punishments for fornication. Augustine you know is on record stating this Gration is on record stating this and and inscribing it within his canon law. So this is this new interpretation of Jesus a sexual liberator. It's only found in the modern period with these liberal Christians it has no basis in the Bible. It has no even if we did accept this like pericope adultery like it within the Gospel of John like within brackets, oh, you know, he without sin should cast the first stone even
if we accept that as all
Benteke that would not make Jesus out to be in favor of sexual liberation in the way that these liberal Christians are making him out of you.
Before we conclude, just couple more points for anybody, they can do this on their own they can. I had a guest Joran Van Damme, I think it was he was somebody who was trying to ban Islam from the Netherlands. And what he did himself was he opened up the Koran. And he took the Bible human being a Christian, and he compared the two he saw, okay, let me look at the verses that talk about combat, just war and whatnot. And he was seeing like, hold on, if I'm going to sit here attack Islam attack Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him. What about Moses? Moses, when he came back when they were worshiping the calf in one day one shot 3000 were killed. So he talks about that he saw actually,
there was more justice. And he saw when he put things in contexts, that hold on, it's not adding up to what these people would have been programmed to go ahead and believe. So what can people do when they hear this now and even in the discussion he brought up on chapter nine, verse five, all people have to do is just go read the verse before and after it. Right? And they'll see that this actually his arguments fall apart if we wanted to play that same game, and be deceitful and play into this, Jesus, who we love and revere. If this verse right here, is quoted, for instance,
and we took this literally, but the Christian I mean, Jake, I mean, here, when the Christian explains that some of these are metaphors and whatnot, then they'll give scholary reference, what is this, for instance, this one here, do not think that I've come to bring peace to her but have sort of not come to bring peace but a sword, this one here, there's also other verses. But now, if we want to insists it means this, but then we exclude all of the Christian tradition and whatnot, that wouldn't be fair, I don't think you would do that, though. What do you think, Jake? Yeah, no, I mean, if you keep reading, I think in that same section, I think that's from the Gospel of Matthew.
Jesus Mays makes it explicitly clear, right? He is somebody that is coming, that because he's a prophet, and somebody are going to some people are going to believe what he has to say. And other people are going to reject what he has to say that he's going to divide families, right. He's going to separate son from mother and father and not and vice versa. And that's because he knew that there were going to be some that followed his way and others that rejected him. So he's not what some modern day Christians want to paint them out to be that he was this liberal, you know, hippie, I mean, they try to make him like he's a hippie from the 60s and 70s, or something like that. And it's
certainly not the case. Right? So what I think a lot of these people just haven't even really read their own Bible, or at the very least, have read it and a very surface level fashion. They haven't really deeply thought about what has been taught in the Bible and what is being said by Jesus.
And that was a part of the discussion. We didn't get into Muslims love for Jesus, a mighty messenger and the authenticity of the Bible and other things that we could the Trinity this is something that you'd like to debate. This is something that brought you actually to Islam, the pure monotheism, worshipping God Almighty, the Creator, Allah alone and not his creation. That's actually your story. This is what brought you to Islam submission and surrender to the one and only one Creator of the heavens and earth. So let's end with that. We're almost out of time here a couple more minutes. Is this something that we're making up we're doing? You lying when we say we love and revere Jesus,
this is a good talking point. I mean, we don't curse him Chris's mother like some people do and, and call them all sorts of evil names him and his mother, we say peace be upon him. This is something Owen Benjamin, for example, he's one example when he saw like, hold on, you know, he was somebody who was also talking negatively about Islam. But when he saw these, actually was you and me, Daniel, remember, we were actually talking and sent a message to him. And we reacted to some of his latest comments how he was actually defending Prophet Mohammed now in defending Islam. So this is not something we're making up. And this is something that we have a lot in common here. Where we differ
we get the elephant out of the room. We don't believe that he ever ever said that he was God to worship himself or that he was a literal Son of God. But he was a mighty messenger he called it he was a servant of God. He was a prophet of God, just like the Bible actually says so what do you guys comments on that?
I think a lot of Christians through their own research or they look at they watch this, Patrick but David podcast, they're realizing that they're they've been duped like they've been duped into thinking that Muslims are the enemy that Islam is this kind of satanic religion. And Muslims are just out to kill Christians.
And I think they're starting to realize, they definitely started to realize that this is all lies like we have been brainwashed, or we've been tricked into having this negative view of Muslims and Islam, when the reality is that Islam is the only other religion other than Christianity to have a positive view of Jesus. Other religions are either at their neutral regarding Jesus, or they actually have a negative view of Jesus. But Muslims or Islam is the only other religion other than Christianity that has a positive, very positive view of Jesus. And as you said, we love Him and respect him and his mother. So I think hamdulillah Christians are many of them, the ones who are
practicing and religious are waking up, and they're seeing that, okay, I need to really look more closely at Islam and have a different attitude towards Muslims. What I want, and what I've said in the podcast, and afterwards is, it would be great for Christians to become Muslims. But even if they're not going to become Muslim, at least don't take us as enemies, at least don't look at us as the enemy. Because there are bigger enemies of Christianity and Islam that are attacking both of us. We have to, in whatever ways make sense. And we can we have to try to build bridges and work together against these larger enemies, these larger forces. That's the message I would have for
Christians who are listening to this, Jake. And that was the that was the vision of a pastor ben David, that's what he he, he was talking about working with Muslims to combat the sexualization of children, you know, this whole Gender Spectrum, all these other things that are happening, and this is what we agree with what we have, what bigger fish to fry, when I wanted him to see and it's hard to do that in one podcast. And what I want more Christians to see is that it's not just about this gender Bender, stuff like that is just a, the latest manifestation of these, this larger attack on religion, this larger attack on tradition, the, you know, gender operation for three year olds,
that's just the the most brazen in your face manifestation or iteration of the problem. The problem has roots that go much deeper into the past, we can say over 200 years ago with this enlightenment project, this atheistic enlightenment enlightenment project, which is manifested in the, in the ideology of liberal secularism, liberal secularism, that is the attack that is the enemy that has been attacking, not only traditional Christians, but also traditional Jews, and Muslims. So we have to recognize that ideology for what it is for how toxic toxic it is. Maybe it has taken this kind of extreme attack on children and gender operations for children, for Christians to finally wake up and
say, Oh, wow, you know, there's a real problem here. Maybe that's what it took. But now Christians like Patrick bet, David, those who are listening to this need to reflect that we didn't get to this position of, you know, putting kindergarteners on on on estrogen or hormone blockers or whatever, we didn't get to this point without 1000 steps that preceded it. And if you're going to address the problem, you have to address the roots, you have to address the roots, not the rotten fruit. So what is the root of this problem? How can we address it? How can we critique it? How can we save our communities society, civilized civilization itself from this menace?
Jake, tell us a Muslim is one who submits his will to the credit heavens and earth. So you've been a Muslim now for about a decade? Correct? And when you hear this term, they say, oh, man, he's the Antichrist, these these Muslims. Now he turned against Christ. What do you say to him? No, I think that I am closer than to Jesus than I ever was. And I'll just wrap up this whole session with one story that I think a lot of Christians out there need to here who maybe don't know anything about Islam, I didn't know anything about Islam. I had no idea that Muslims believed in one and only true God, the same creator that created everything. Right? I had no idea that they believed that Jesus
was somebody to be loved and respected. Somewhere, somebody who was a prophet and messenger of God who did many miracles, who was born of a virgin. All of these things I never knew, right? But when I read the Quran for myself, with an open mind and open heart, I realized that it was the truth primarily because of its clear and unwillingness to compromise on pure monotheism, as opposed to what we find in with all due respect. I don't mean this to hurt Christians.
But with their doctrine of Jesus being God, with their doctrine of the Trinity, Islam has a much clearer and understandable doctrine of who God is, and also who Jesus is. Yes, he's someone we love, and we respect and is one of the greatest human beings ever. However, we will never violate Tawheed, or the idea of pure monotheism, by saying that a man was actually God. And I think that that's something very important. And it relates to a lot of what we have to say,
when it comes to these other social issues. But as Daniel was pointing out, and like I was saying earlier, we want to unite and build bridges with traditional Christians. But what that means is, we want people to go back to their traditional roots, we want people to go back to their scriptures, and have values that are in line with their tradition and scriptures, rather than this secular liberal ideology that, as Daniel said, is the result of going away from Scripture. That's what it is, it was going away from scripture, replacing it with science or pseudoscience. And these vein, you know, philosophies that actually are completely opposed to Scripture and traditional values,
they need to drop that and go back to their traditional roots and scripture, and then Muslims and Christians can work together much easier in sha Allah.
Thank you both. Thank you both for being with us and doing a post analysis of the discussion or debate of the year in Sharla. Zack Wilhite Salam aleikum.
Right. Yes. And I think my guests again, Daniel and Jake, and I want to thank Patrick, who was fair and balanced in this discussion, it turned into a debate. And as I opened up, in the beginning, give an example of El Amin the trustworthy, the truthful, that's who we strive to emulate. So it's, for us to be have integrity, to be honest, trustworthy, truthful. And when you have people in an industry like this, who is creating, you know, you go to the movies, and they make manufacture fear. So you can understand that you go there, and you see the axis is the Boogeyman. And then you come out and you're like, you know, you scared and your, your, your mother, your father would tell you,
like you got on the fears. It's just, it's fake fear, it's they they manufactured is to get you scared. That's what these people do. Brothers and sisters. That's what these people do. They end up sucking in money, tons of it. So $1.3 billion industry, and they're part of that. So their whole life is about manufacturing, fear, lying, deceiving. And these are the people, even them at the end of the day, if they change their way, we always leave the door open because God Almighty Allah is the most loving, and we'll do the Most Merciful. And as we were leaving, and I'll conclude with this, as we're leaving this P VD podcast, I got to see one of the panelists, and I told him, I said
that in the few seconds that we spent, as I saw him getting my bag, and I'm leaving, and he just happened to be there in the room. And I told them, I said, Look, it starts off with being sincere with yourself, and then being sincere with your Creator and asking your creator for guidance. So turn to the One God Almighty and ask for guidance. So many people, they don't do that. So then they go down these, these roads, and they go down these avenues of, of spreading corruption in the land. And this is exactly what these individuals are doing. They're not trying to come to the table to build bridges and to have peace with their neighbors. They're spreading fear and like opened up with
a tweet from someone who went through the war in Bosnia. And they saw what these hate provoca doors do. They end up splitting neighbor from neighbor, and they end up causing all this friction, anxiety, manufacturing fear. So now you fear your Muslim neighbor. And this leads to violence, and it's an never ending cycle. So with that said, let's build these bridges. Let's go ahead and work together. I love this vision. We can get the elephant out of the room. There's some things that we don't agree upon. But I think we have a much more in common. So let's bring people to the table who can go ahead and spread this vision to their congregants to their communities because we need more
of this. The reality is Christians are not going to where Muslims are not going where the people that aren't on his plan. They're not going we're not going anywhere. So we have to learn to live together in peace and harmony, speak your truth but at the end of the day, speaking in fairness, injustice in truthfulness, don't lie don't deceive don't cheat as these people who are spreading this fear spreading his hate are doing and with that said guys, you
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