Channel: Mohammed Hijab
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Assalamualaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh and welcome to a special show with a special guest, who is a Uighur Muslim who is an activist who has been very active on media mainstream media BBC
TV called TNT or TRT Aqaba. Yeah. Yeah. The Turkish channel, right. Al Jazeera and many, many other important channels is obviously got very important information to give us today about the plight of the Uighur Muslims in East Turkmenistan. So, before we get started with what's happening on the ground now, I thought we potentially get started with maybe a brief history of who are the weaker people. And what is the history of, of those weaker people in the segment aside?
Sure. Today what what the Chinese call over it's officially called by the world bodies as the shinjang Uighur Autonomous Region, we often refer to as Chinese occupied East Turkistan. And I mean you could go into 1000 years of history but mainly the wiggers come into play, especially during the Quran, Empire period, were the weakest in 1934 accept Islam, and they are the first Turkic nation to accept Islam and and make a kingdom out of a demick the first kingdom and even the word we're good in Turkish, ooh, God actually means civilized because they were the first was generally Turkic. Mongol people are nomadic people. And the weekers were the first branch of Turks to leave that
nomadic lifestyle and create a civilization and agriculture. And so around 900, they accept Islam. And then it's like a few 100 years of, within a week a kingdom of different sort of kingdoms within Turkey kingdoms.
It's not until we get to about 1760, where we start having issues with the Chinese Empire. And during that time, we get into contacts, the wiggers get into contact with the Manchu Empire. And they take over what we now refer to as East Turkistan in 1760. They sort of rule that part of the land, and we'll get into the geography as well for about 80 or so years. During those 80 years, there are many revolts, and in about 1864, the weekers become independent once more from the Manchu Empire. And then during that period for the for a very brief period, the week is actually give back to the Ottoman Empire as well very briefly, but again, it's short lived. And we are taken over by
the Manchurians again in 1876. Then for about eight years or so there's a bit more revolt. And then the the the Ching Dynasty basically in during that period, in 1884. We are labeled as Shin Jang, which literally means new frontier, or new land. And then it's not until 1911 that the Manchu Empire totally is wiped out by the Chinese nationalists. And we fall under Chinese nationalist rule. And then from 1911 to about 1933. We we fight the Chinese nationalists and we establish the East Turkistan Islamic Republic. And this is I was established in the city of Kashgar, which is very close to the which which borders with Afghanistan, and it's actually recognized by, but by the
Afghan government back then, and also turkey of the Turkish Republic. But unfortunately, this Islamic Republic is short lived. And then we lose the fight to the Chinese nationalists once more. And then in in about 11 years later, in 1944. towards the north of his Turkistan in the city of Gaza. We established the East Pakistan Republic. And that goes on for about five or six years until the Chinese communists disband that government in 1949. And then we've been living for the past 70 odd years under communist rule, Chinese communist rule together with Tibet together with Inner Mongolia, and since that day, they promised us autonomy.
Technically, we are labeled the shinjang we got Autonomous Region, but we have we don't receive any autonomy. Our leaders are puppets. And we've and we've gone through many oppressions throughout the times, whether it be during whether it be our own
Arabic script, because we do use Arabic script that was later changed into Latin
For the period of time, just like what turkey did with Ataturk, but then later again, they changed it back to Arabic. So one, you change the Arabic script, once you lose a whole generation of people, they become illiterate. And in another 20 years, you change the script once more. So the Chinese have been keeping the biggest illiterates,
you know, not knowledge and not schooled. And this is a typical of all communist regimes, you know, attacking professors attacking the rich attacking the businessman and and attacking agency, basically, I could go on until today, basically, if you feel like oh,
well, I mean, that's, that's a very comprehensive in a short space of time.
History, if you like of the of the wiggers.
What are the population sizes just for people to get kind of more of a visual picture? And I was what is the population size? What language people speak? Tell us more about these people. I mean, to what extent are they integrated into Chinese society? If at all? To what extent are they likely to know, Mandarin Chinese or any kind of Chinese?
So give us a bit of a glimpse as to what what the wiggers are like today and, and something about the week of people? Yeah, so the week is by nature, by nature, or by say, blood, a link to the Turks. So even when you go to Turkey, or when you talk to Turkish people, that they have this special tree of you know, what they call like, where their gene comes from, so to speak. So we are linked to the Turkic people. And when we refer to is Turkey, Stan, we don't just refer to the wiggers. Even though we make the majority within the framework of Turkey, Stan or Eastern Eastern Europe, Kazakh Turks is back Turks could use Turks, Tata, Turks,
the Uyghurs, the language itself is Turkish. So if I were to speak, say,
say to Ali Dawa, very slowly in the weak language, he would understand me, I do know the Turkish language itself as well, so that the Turks understand each other.
And the language wise, according to Chinese statistics, we are 11 million people. But we say we are anywhere anywhere between 25 to 40 million. Obviously, the Chinese Don't let us do any statistics. They seem to just keep our population the same over, especially after 1990. Our population hasn't changed, for some reason, they like to keep it small on paper.
And when the first when before China's invasion,
that the Chinese population is Turkistan was less than a percent, maybe like half a percent. But now, according to China, it's about 5050 50% harm and then 50% wiggers. And then within that 50%, there are a small minority of Kazakhs, cookies, big stars.
Yeah, that those are the weaker people for you. And the frustration with the Chinese government is that while whilst many other cultures because China boasts itself and prides itself of having 56 nationalities, within a 56 ethnic groups within China, but we are the ones that haven't necessarily integrated into their or been assimilated into their framework. And it's maybe you've heard of the recent crackdown in last three years, these concentration camps where they finally said, Enough is enough, you're either gonna become Chinese or not, because our our allegiance has not been necessarily to Beijing, it's been more towards to our Turkic brothers in Central Asia, to to our
middle east and brothers in the Middle East. And so we looked out, and even the way we look, the way we speak, in recent years, I mean, the the weaker people have had to learn Chinese. I mean, it is, it is the it is the nation's language. After all, if you don't know Chinese, you wouldn't be able to study. So we just predominantly do know the Chinese Mandarin language.
Yeah, and you may have heard that.
And we'll probably get into that later that why they're putting us into concentration camp, is to teach us Chinese Mandarin. But most of the people that that you've seen put are actually very educated people.
So let's get to that. And right now, because I think we've got a good picture of who the weaker people are, what their history is, because I think that humanizes them not just for, let's say non Muslims who are watching this,
but also for us Muslims who might not have much information about the weekers myself included. So I think it's very important that we
We do study a little bit more about the history study a little bit more about the society and the people. What's going on in China now.
So the most recent
thing that has been going on, especially since the beginning of 2017, China has decided to put the wiggers into.
And we've seen it and today I made a video about it as well, just like what happened to the Jews into concentration camps.
Before I mean, it's not like it started in 2017. The weekers have always been oppressed over the last 70 years. But especially these last three years, regardless of how religious someone is, or regardless on how loyal they were, to the Communist Party, it based simply on your ethnic identity, you are put into this concentration camp to be basically fixed, or to be retrained, re educated. And in the process, many have died. So if I if I can go into what actually happens in these camps, there are actually four types of camps. For four levels of camps. The first type of Camp is the lightest were probably the people that have that are not a threat to society. So sort of threats to Chinese
society is if you have connections overseas, if you make a telephone call overseas, if you have if you if you have ever owned any religious items, so holding on to prayer mats, or an or hanging things, or saying
if you don't want to know if you've got religious possessions or so
you can check this out as well. 1.1 million Chinese officials were sent into Uighur homes. And you had no choice for this under the guise of creating ethnic harmony between the Han and the Uighur. And we thought, you know, this is good, all right, that they'll get to know us. It'll be like a cultural exchange. Because it's very, it's very, I mean, even though we can Han Chinese do work together, it's it's very unlikely that you would invite them like have them sleep over and all this during that time the wigs were surveilled. And they saw how they interacted. So this notion of or they could practice at home and not practice outside, that doesn't exist for us. So during that
time, they were able to establish how whether how much Chinese Mandarin they spoke at home. Because now in public spaces, the legal language itself is banned. So how how, what sort of lessons were they teaching their kids, and it could be things like not even fully Islamic, like my son, eat with your right hand. Like there's notice that, you know, you don't even have to say all the shape on each with his left. It says he will do whitening with his right hand. So all these things are jotted down and jotted in. And so from this, they sort of gather, who's at what degree so the lightest punishment is basically this first sort of camp, where you literally go to like work from nine to
five, you're back home. This is the lightest
pen is the actual camp where you are taken. And you actually stay you live there. People have told us, former detainees have told us and this is widely covered in Western media and Eastern media. They were on four to 500 calorie diets. They were made to repent make Toba to Xi Jinping. And there are signs out on the streets. And again, this is everything that I'm going to say is recorded. You can do your own research on this, that Xi Jinping is literally God, and they have a TV screen on him. And you need to write letters to him. And so people are making Toba because they were making Toba to Allah. So religion, not just Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, Falun Gong, you may have heard
of these groups, any religion, and this is under all communist regimes are banned, even though they have state run religion where they propagate their own communism, and it's not real religion. So that's the main sort of concentration camp that we're talking about, whether on fortune 500 calorie diets, women are sterilized. They're injected with something but but the former detainees, the women, they were saying they they ended up not having their periods. There is gang rape, regardless of men and women. Even some men have testified that they were gang raped by prison guards.
And what's the evidence of all of this? All of the evidence is based on testimony and number two, there is satellite images of the actual camps, but video footage of actually what's happening. No, we don't have any footage of this.
So it's based on testimony in the module, the the realization of the camps have been seen on
through Google Images through Google Maps. And whenever any foreign visitor, investigative journalists does want to go to a specific area and follow those addresses on the maps that were given, they are stopped if there was nothing to hide why stopping them? And so for example, I've seen yourself for example, golf going to or hinda going to, you know, these very delicate sensitive places you would not be able to do that in his Turkistan. Um, you want to be able to interview the people. So that's the second sort of that's it. That's the second camp, the third camp. Yeah. Did you want to ask you just on that point? Yeah. How would you compare the weakest situation with the
situation? You know, as you kind of mentioned, I didn't go into Burma. But I went to Cox's Bazar, which is on the border with Burma. And I spoke to many of the women that said that they see their own children, you know, put into fires, and burnt alive gang rape, but all this first citizen stuff.
I was gonna ask, to what extent now, is that comparable with what's going on? In China? Are we seeing the same kinds of thing? Is it is it just genocidal killings? I mean, what kind of numbers? Are we talking about anywhere similar to Rohingya, but what would you say it's less than that? Would you say it's similar to in many ways, or what would be your assessment? So basically, based based on what the former detainees have said, they're saying, anyway, based on their experiences, on average, they were saying they were at least seeing 10 people every month leaving their cells and not being able to come back. This is what they were telling us that they actually saw 10 people die in front
of their eyes every month. They're saying that there's
anywhere between 1000 to 2000 camps. So you can only guesstimate there are no official numbers. I mean, are we killing them? Yes, that they are killing them, but that they are killing them in a way that they are they are being put through this camp, but the people that are dying, and not being there are not able to take that porcia it's not like a bullet to your head, but just through those lack of nutrition, through the torture through towards
specific questions. What, what kind of torture methods are we talking about? So, yeah, yeah, what so we're talking about it, we're talking about sitting on wood, there is special made chairs, you may have heard of Tiger chairs, for some of the detainees have said 15 to 16 hours at a time. And when they're,
or they're made to stand in certain positions for many hours at a time. They are interrogated, they're given pills, or they're given these special injections so that they don't fall asleep.
After a while, if you're not sleeping for days on end, through these through torture methods, the human body isn't able to take it and say, so you have 10s of people die from each cell. This this is how they are dying. This is what the detainees are saying. It's not straight up like for example, the footage that you see coming out of the hinga they you can at least get footage of you can see the people dying. But in his Turkistan, this is impossible because everything is done under closed doors. The difference between the two? And to be honest, the ro hinga or the Burma the the government there or the regime there don't have the capacity to do what because China has the
economic power to keep it under wraps. And we're basically saying what if they're not if they haven't got anything to hide? Why are journalists you know, constantly followed? They are not able to report really, and still to this day, no, you and investigates are able to come and you people that you were able to go to the border in and talk to the people that went through this this oppression, whereas you would never be able to do this in circumstance or
about you could talk to people outside. So in the UK or in the West.
So that's the second I personally have you seen Oh, yes. Yes.
So basically, the last time I was there in 2014, basically from a child, I've been going that every three, three or four years. My mom would take me and we would stay in a mansion and three, four or five months at a time. And basically for me, going there as a foreigner. I didn't really see much
Post 2009 2009 you may have heard though something called the orangey massacre, or the orangey riots, which stemmed from the wiggers in this place called Guangdong, which is part of China. These weekers were working in Toy factories in China. Why were weak is working over there. Because
there is this and this goes into another issue where where the child the Han Chinese are called over to work in his Turkistan, the jobs, the homes that all the advantages are for them. And we just don't have anything don't benefit economically. We get sent to work in these factories to make our phones to make our shoes. We've heard that Chinese labor is cheap, but weaker labor is cheaper. So what happened in 2009, was in shock, one on June 26 2009. Big because the Chinese workers was not happy they were losing their jobs because of wiggers. Many weekers were slaughtered, massacred by workers. And it was a huge cover up. The Chinese government didn't release it to the news. So the
wiggers in East Turkistan went to the government, the central government and told them look 10 days ago this happened, why what? What have you done about this? They did nothing. So on the fifth of July 2009, the week is like when my enemies were peacefully, and they were met with gunfire, they literally were met with the tenement square, but the East Turkistan version of tenement square for that next year, we had no internet access with them.
And they were able to roundup people killed. We estimate anywhere between 10 to 20,000 of our youth was slaughtered many of my family members, but many of my friends who are living overseas, most of them lost family members, and
your family members now. I'm not and they would not get in contact with me because one, I'm overseas and two, I'm an activist as well. So a big No, no. So I did go to East Turkistan post 2008. And it was different. Even I was being checked. Before I wasn't checked at the border, they wouldn't look through my phone, I was given what I was going through little things. But when I got there, when I was talking to the people, they would be like, you know what, you should stay in the big city don't go to the little other little towns, because each town that you go to you got to be registered. And there has to be like what you said, like a caffeine or like like a guarantor, they have to take care
of you. And if you if you're out of place, if you do anything wrong,
they get in trouble. And simply me being there and staying at a week is home in itself is is very dangerous. It's not at the danger now where you're not allowed to stay at just any random person's home for a foreigner now you can't just stay at people's phones. You have to be registered at a hotel.
so post 2009 it's it's it's slowly been like the the the cultural filter or what you're what you're able to say what you're able to do, whether it be on social media, or just on the street has been slowly
your freedoms are slowly slowly being taken away. But every 10 years since 1949, there's always been like a culling of the wiggers.
And so yeah, so that was the second type of camp. The third type of Camp is and that is an actual prison, where you're actually sentenced your sentence for for, I wouldn't say reasons, I would say excuses. So it'd be like you're praying, okay. 10 years, you're using WhatsApp or you hadn't
It very come people get any some people get 20. Some people say, Oh, they gathered people in their home to pray that they will crane say Isha together. So little things like for owning a car and for saying Salaam Alaikum for saying it. For example, if you tell someone and they overhear Brother, don't do that. That's Haram. That, you know, that in itself is a crime. And you have to be
that there is a cancer, there is a tumor in your mind. And this is quoting the Chinese government. I'm not saying too much in cancer from my mind, from their documents that were leaked. Last year, they said this tumor is cancer, which is Islam needs to be removed. These people have been extremophiles, they are extreme. And then the fourth type of sort of Camp is the fourth labor, where people they say, this uneducated youth, we have to give them jobs. But when you talk to these people, they were earning anywhere between 1000 1500 US dollars, which is good money, and now they're down to like 200 American dollars that they're making. And, and, and the main narrative that
the Chinese give is we got to educate
The youth that are no Chinese that are not the law, but they're looking at even 40 year olds, 50 year old 60 year olds, as I mentioned, my own father in law, who is a famous actor and comedian, you can simply type in his name into YouTube. His name is Arjun Majid ad, space m ij. It is a, everyone knows him is the equivalent to Jim Carrey or Michael McIntyre in the UK, he even he was placed in the camp, and he studied with Xi Jinping, his wife at the central Academy of drama and art in Beijing in the mid 80s. So people who who code this, the CCP line, were even sent to these camps and are still in these camps. He was lucky enough to be released last September, but he has still not
called us in Turkey.
Question now this very bleak, you know, and very
horrible, to be honest, the
image that you've given us of what's going on, people will be wondering now what can we do about this? I mean, what are the steps? What are the productive steps we can use to move forward? And
how can we follow your work in particular, and help you with your what you're doing? So basically, what we do is we we basically do our work from Twitter and Facebook, and we also are team up with other activists as well. And also Western organizations like Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch. And so you gotta imagine that these organizations, if there was really a terror issue or an extreme issue, they wouldn't come near us at all. If this was really the case on visa, Western elite organization, human rights organizations.
Yes, so we work. So we work specifically with, say groups like the weaker Congress, or we get Human Rights Project. So and to so we feed off each other, we share each other's work. We talk on different platforms. What is your What is your Twitter? So my Twitter is ad. Atlanta, ar s RS Li n underscore Hidayat h ID a yt. And the Facebook pages talk to is Turkistan. It's the most popular weegar Facebook page. And the only reason why we got popular new
coke to East Turkistan to number two or to Yeah, okay. Yeah.
Yeah, and that's,
yeah, Facebook, or you can just type in my name, and you'll see me all the Google anyway.
Yes, they can see on the screen as well.
Yes, so we were talking about how important social media is. So I'll just tell you a little story. What happened last year, I want everyone to look up the term 50 cent social media army, you can google this. And this is literally 50 cent social media army. And if you simply google this, you will see the money that the Chinese that the Chinese government pays its citizens to basically from writing comments and posting comments, supporting or anti Uighur or anti Tibetan or anti Hong Kong to go against these movements from making videos saying, you know,
stay strong UK, you know, you know, you'll get over the Coronavirus and all this. So we got these people, they attacked our page, right? with comments and bringing down our rating. And they posted it and they and they got written by the clip Global Times, which is a Chinese CCP channel, which boosted our
What do you call it? our presence? cnn got in touch with us. And you can find these articles on CNN, talking about how our page was attacked one question before you continue. When you say us Who are you talking about in particular? So me and there is another brother called Ronnie sabi we run is focused on top these stand together. Right? Yeah. And so
through the Facebook page. Yeah. And so they promoted that page. And basically what I'm trying to say is for the Chinese mentality of the of the Chinese government, is that they want to save face. So even little Facebook, I mean, we've only got like 60,000 followers, with little Facebook pages like us, that the Chinese regime finds us a threat. And we'll find anyone who speaks about the Whig issue that the Tibetan issue or any other oppressed peoples in China, no matter how small you are, they will try and ridicule you or they'll make you as fake with spreading fake news. And our argument has always been what if we're so fake, let us in. Let the people in. Let people
The likes of yourself in and talk to the people why our PR are the week to week is get in trouble get put in jail for talking to journalists and so
so don't think that what we do on social media or others do on social media every little bit hashtagging sharing the material that we've got listening to us telling your friends and family it may seem small but it's really huge and we just need people to be aware of this because in a few days time inshallah Allah Ramadan is starting and like what a few moments ago you are comparing the ro hinga and but I am I always compare also Philistine because in Philistine inshallah, may Allah relieve the venom of the of our Palestinian brothers and sisters from the Israeli Zionists. But to now the Palestinians will still be able to fast this Ramadan, they will still be able to wear the
hijab, they'll still have the beard, they'll still be able to pray. They'll still be able to read event, they'll still be able to give their kids Muslim names. They'll still be able to read Arabic talk in Arabic, they'll still be able to protest they'll still be able to call their their land Philistine in Phyllis. The word is Turkistan is banned in his Turkistan is the word itself. What we're doing now is illegal if we were in its Turkistan right now. So I would like people to think about these things ahead of Ramadan. Um, yeah. Well, I mean, I was just having a conversation with Noam Chomsky yesterday.
He said something which I think we can end with, and which is, you know, it's very important to first note before I do that, I've been enlightened by I love what you said. I want to thank you for coming on the show. And I want to thank you. Once again, I want to reiterate, your Twitter was, again, a add on. So my name the IRS Li n underscore, Hidayat, HIVA yt. And the talk is talk to us Pakistan.
So he said using social media if we don't use it, the biggest racist will. So this is, you know, civil manner for us to put this this case for what? And, and this is a very important thing that needs to be highlighted or at least investigated by Western media streams. I thank you again for coming on the show and for enlightening us historical perspective is surely enough from a political one as well. Thank you very much.
Thank you for having me.