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Shia Intellectual Debates

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Mohammed Hijab

Channel: Mohammed Hijab

Episode Notes

Episode Transcript

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Okay, that's a lot of what I'm hired to do, you could just tell us a bit about yourself. So my name is Ahmed Saini. I called brother Muhammad hijab and challenged him to a formal debate, which he respectfully refused. And I respect his reasons.

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Instead, he invited me to come here today, which, you know, hamdulillah respectfully accepted. I'm happy with that. Yep. So my proposal is that if you are able to answer my questions, then I'm happy to come in right now and become Sunni. Why? These points are what makes me a Shia. Okay. So, before you start, I mean, just to give the people like, kind of felt sorry, sorry, go ahead. If I could kindly request that everyone, please remain silent while while we debate so that we could fully understand each other shala. And we keep it very nice and friendly. Of course, I was gonna interject and just say that come from my understanding, because when you did call me,

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you got one number from the previous the previous debate that I was debating, and it seemed like what he was trying to do is, obviously he debated me on email ama.

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And I think I feel like there may be a feeling of Okay, there's something more to say, yeah. You have the feeling okay. This may be not not to say anything, that he was deficient. In his response, he did a really, really good job. Use of, you know, considering the circumstances and considering what you had to work with. But you're saying that Okay, now, on this issue of Amana? You have something to add? Yeah. My questions were not answered in those two previous debates that you had, that's fine. That's fine. So he could help me answer this question. Because for me following the Sunnah of the profit is what makes me share. So if you could show me that that's not the case, then

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that's fine. I mean, what I think from my side, just to give you the feedback from kind of like the sunny side, the mainstream orthodox Sunni side, I feel like a lot of and if you look at the comments, and kind of my video and stuff, like you realize that a lot of people felt like the questions that we put forward as soon as we're not answered by the sheer interlocutor. Yes. And so I think I think that maybe, maybe you'd agree with that. Yes. So this will be a good opportunity for if it's good for both of us. So if you feel like there's unanswered questions from your side that can answer. And if we feel like there's unanswered questions, and outside you can answer Yeah,

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perhaps we could do that as well. Okay, so I'd like to begin with my first question. And that is Allah subhanaw taala. And the Quran says, obey Allah and the messenger and those with authority among you. So, and also, he says that your load creates and chooses whomever he poses, it is not for them to choose. These are two separate verses. Yeah. So the one that you're talking about here, chapter four, verse 57, or 54, what kind of verse chapter four verse 5959. Okay, well, yeah, you're letting me know after Allah

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fantana that I'm fishing for do it a lot. What was awesome. Okay, so let's just show just before we continue, because it's important that they get kind of context, diverse in its entirety, says, Oh, you believe chapter four, verse 59. Oh, you believe, obey Allah and obey the messenger and those in command of you? Yes. So if you differ upon something, then bring it back to Allah and His messenger. Yeah. So for me, it's very clear that khilafah is included in this authority that Allah is commanding to obey Allah and the messengers with authority. So is this your issue? So just a quick quick last question, Is this your way of proving the Imam? No, no, I'm just I'm just establishing

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first that it is very clear from the Quran.

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Why? Because there are people in authority after the Prophet that we have to obey. And this is agreed with, what's your definition of Khalifa? Khalifa, the one who if you obey Him, you obey Allah, and if you disobey Him, so you mean like an Emir, or you can call him an

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Abu Bakar? And we say, for example, with just a leader, any leader, yeah, yeah. Okay. So and also, when you say the halifa, you're talking about a person in charge of the whole Muslim Empire, the person who's in charge of Islam, after the Prophet, then you obey Him you obey Allah and you disobey Him you disobey Allah His the divine authority after visit one person was arranged because in the verses what woody lumbermen comes is Gemma. Yes, so which means it's a plural entity, but there's only one after the profit. And then after that one, there's another one. But that's, that's not something within the Quranic discourse. Now, that's fine. But the verse proves that there are people

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in authority. That's right, I would accept that. Yes. And Allah says also, that your Lord creates and chooses whom he pleases to choose is not that so it is not for the people to choose which which chapters, this is chapter 28 verse 16.

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Okay, so anything good for the Alliance, the one who chooses it, and

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so obviously, Philip is a good thing, right? Can I call it the Prophet so Allah chooses that as well, according to this. So hey, that's not what the verse is saying. So that's your interpretation of the verses very well, okay, that's fine. But what can I just request you to do something again, because when

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panatela talks in the Quran, it's very important that we respect what he's actually saying. And it's not. It's not within our own capacities to kind of superimpose meanings. Here, we're not doing Tafseer of the Quran, if you want to, if you want to do is to learn or bring a verse from the Quran to prove a point, you have to kind of leave it as it is. No, I'm not trying to prove much. All I'm saying is Yeah, there is a divine authority that we have to follow. And Allah has chosen this right. Okay. But that's that's the question. This is this is this isn't assertion though. Question. And the question is, is that for us? You see it forget Sunni Shia divide anyone who reads the Koran

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objectively, and I suppose it's I don't know Christian or whoever. They look at the Koran and they see that throughout history since until Mashallah every single divine authority was chosen by Allah whether it's a prophet whether it's a messenger that's good so we'll see a prophet or messenger like them whether it's a mom whether it's

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an even a divine King so for example, in Egypt, educating nasima

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twice

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when Allah m so all of these are saying Allah chose a lot as well as the commands

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and then we have the ones I just want us as a Medina Dalai Lama.

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Not divine authority mamzer glitch the hell Phantom five, so I don't know.

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I don't feel I'm appointing on the earth. And yada

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yada we have appointed us.

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Apologize, apologize. Yes.

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We see even nonprofits so like a divine King. And Allah, Allah comb polluter Malika, Allah has appointed policies. Why is it so? So?

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As a king, they objected. They said, Why should he have Kingdom over us? Yeah, well, he hasn't been given abundance of wealth.

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He said, what was the response? In the last article? Allah has chosen me so you don't have the right to object? Okay. Sounds good. Sounds good actively, every single instance where there's any divine authority, Allah has chosen them. Okay. So we see this as a son of Allah on the earth and when I tell you that is entered into Heaton de la voluntad.

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variation in the Sunnah of Allah subhanaw taala. Okay, so the challenge is, and the question is this, okay? See in the Quran since Adam until the day of judgment, until at least we agree on to perform every divine authority,

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disagreement between any parties.

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So we say this is a sign of a law. And let's continue, okay, and all we need to do is find any Hadith that proves that there is a halifa after the Prophet

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Mohammed Ahmed, yes. You have been talking for a while now, do you mind if I come back?

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A bit further. My question to you is, can you prove to me where a las panatela interpolant or in one case history? Well, a lot of the people you choose your own leader, you elect your own leader and he'll be the divine authority? How did we go about changing from the center of the line history, okay, that every single authority was appointed by a law to a case where now we choose our own leader. Where's my evidence for that? Okay, one verse one. eration. Okay, so it's interesting that you started with points of agreement, which I'm really happy that you've done so. So for example, where Allah subhanaw taala says to, to that would, yeah, yeah, though the energetic proliferative,

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energetic lives on Venus. Well, let's talk about our Yeah, it says that, you know, we have chosen you as a highly found Earth. Yeah. So you know, Falcon, Venus, so do hokum, and rule upon the people. And don't follow your desires. Now. This is a verse, which is what you call sorry, gutai is absolutely clear for all to see. Yes. So for anyone to now reject this verse will be to reject the obvious. Yes. Now, clearly here. Now, this is the point I made to you to the interlocutor before and I want to make sure again, that really when we're talking about EMA, when we're talking about

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the amount of 12 individuals 12 individuals who are divinely chosen to

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join if I continue speaking, because I did let you I did let you finish. I didn't interrupt you. Okay, but here now you're interrupting me. Okay. So it has to be kind of give and take, right? Because I didn't leave you to the end. What I'm saying is that the share position is that you have something called relay, you have 12 individuals, all of which have superpowers. I know you're not talking about it, but this is your share. So I want to ask you directly. I mean, we've kept we keep asking you, I'm asking you this Okay, I'll ask you, my friend.

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Do you want assignment? Would you like to tell me because I haven't interrupted you?

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Because I know this is a very Look, I'm not gonna trample you on the spot here. Okay. But what I'm gonna say is I know this question has no answer. That's why you don't want me to ask this question is basically just in the same way, you you quoted verse in the Quran talking about the woods being officially found or being a leader of the earth. I want just one verse similar to that, that says it is the same, okay? And if you do that, I'll accept it. So hold on. So Allah says

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Your

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question yeah, yes, yes. So what is your question? Exactly? Show me one case in history where Allah said to the people you choose your divine leader. This is not the issue that you've spoken to me on the phone or you said you wanted to prove your mama

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I'm just giving you your platform now you have a chance to the Sundays and to people watching at home even non Sudanese non Muslims to prove look banyule Islam Allah Hamza to share in the hadith of your Hadith Islam was built upon five things the shahadi share commerce Hello, it is the cat salah and the cat excetera I'm just finishing and all these things and then well will I will I am is mmm mmm is the 12 individuals who have to follow as a matter of religion that are more important than the prophets except for the Prophet Mohammed. So my question, my question is, you're saying to me, I have to follow 12 individuals who are divinely chosen by Allah? Okay, can you tell me when the Quran

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tells me to do that, so I can do it. If not, I follow the Quran and I followed us on that. So here, what I'm saying to you is that this comes at the shear in that as referred to in the Hadith of the Shia, is not to be found in the Quran, the fall can be found the four things which are part of the Shahada of the five pillars. But the fifth thing, which is the whole thing about

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me to answer me if I ask you, are you going to try and answer my question, because I've been trying to answer your question on so what's your what's your one rep, one reference? Oh, St. Yes, a lot of people you choose your leader? This is not the multi. Philip, by the way. This is, let me tell you why. Because, by the way, Who's Who? The Khalifa of the Prophet, let me tell you this, there's actually a difference of opinion within the Sunni school of thought. Exactly. So there is a killer. Yeah. I mean, if you told me here today, if you made your point, okay, that actually, Allah subhanaw taala is the one who has to choose and divinely elected, we say, Yeah, fine. If you say, Allah has,

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he's the one who chooses and divinely elect leaders after the Prophet Muhammad. I say, Fine. I am willing to concede on that point. It's not a problem. It's not it's not really necessarily a big problem. Yeah, the majority of Sudanese, they will say that it was a matter of consultation. I don't see that this is a problem. No. Do you say it is election after the prophet Elisha of the Prophet? Is he chosen by elections? There's a difference in regards to the Sydney school of thought because I'm here trying to obviously give you what we believe in my opinion doesn't matter, my friend, seriously my view of my annual you like, let's be honest, the people here are not talking about me,

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until I'm just sending you the Sunday school of thought with the Scholastic tradition, there are two main opinions. One of them is he is the majority opinion, which is that there was an election after the Prophet Mohammed to decide who was the halifa, who is used to be in charge. Another one is, is very similar to the Shia opinion, which is you can be a Sunni and believe in this. I mean, there's not a problem. Right, exactly. So there is a point of discussion on here. Absolutely. I don't I don't disagree with the fact that you can disagree with this. That's why I'm saying the issue really isn't. Yeah, that okay. A lot to choose the lead up said okay, if if you believe that whether you

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choose IE as the leader, the infallible one that we have to follow, like, you know,

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of course, yes. No, Baba question. Yes. No, no, the question was,

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Why do I have to disagree with you? Show us one case in history, where the people were told to choose that divine leader. I'm telling you that I don't necessarily, I'm telling you. Okay.

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You're flogging a dead horse. I flogging a dead horse. Yeah.

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Let's keep it simple. Yeah, of course. Yeah. So we have the opposite in the Quran. Allah, the Prophet told them Allah has appointed God as your king. They opposed Okay, let's I guess agree disagree. You don't have the right to oppose because Allah chose and that's it and the last of our article mama has chosen movie, right?

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That's just another question is as we see the sooner of a law throughout history since until every single one was appointed by a law. Yes, please give us one case. I'm telling you though, I don't articulate the question

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that the people choose their divine leader type. I'm just saying don't have one. I'm telling you. I don't necessarily completely disagree with you. So why do you have to very vague you've been very vague. Even if I agree with him, he doesn't like it

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very nicely. Mashallah professional debater?

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Very well.

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If I say to you want to convince me to become

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Microsoft,

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if you say

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then you need to shy What did I say that? Did I say there was consensus among Allison ojamajo the people choose? If this was my position, you can attack it. So what is your what my position is that there is a difference of opinion, you can still be a Sunni and believe that it was divine election. Therefore this is not the motion of flf. election. Allah chooses, like you said, That's not the one election that's it. Sorry, divine choice. Yes, divine fallacy. So this is this what I'm saying? what you're doing here is you're bringing a red herring. And in logic, let me tell you in logic, we're writing herring. We don't need to just answer the question, bro. Did Allah ever allow people to

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cheat? I think I've answered this question a couple times. Have I answered the question?

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I think people I don't think so. I'm saying to you that as soon as you

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That could be true, right? I'm saying both. I'm saying you could be right. I mean, you you're speaking to me as if I should disagree with you. You're forcing me to disagree with you on issues. It doesn't need to be disagreement. You can say both to be correct, right? Yes, yes. It could be correct that the people choose the leader, and but we don't have any evidence in history ever for this. Okay. So that's what happened.

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Okay, you're still talking here about tangential issues? Let's do the crux. Where's the top of the mountain the forum?

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I've answered your question. I've answered. That's why you've come here. I will answer your question. I promise you, but please resolve me. Let's say you're let's see if

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you're right. You're right. You're right. You're right. There's no there's no example.

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Listen, bro. You say

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could be correct.

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Chi, silence is from the audience. Okay, so you're saying both could be Minister? You're saying both could be right. It could be elections, even though we have no case in history for divine authority being elected, ever? Not even a single case.

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Or it could be appointment? So the here's the problem for me. If you say it was appointments, then I will. But Chris koloff is illegitimate. Why? Because he was elected. That's it. If you say it was elections, then almost Philip is illegitimate because he was appointed by Obama. So which one should I accept?

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Yeah.

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Basically, here, I've already espoused this point. Yes, there is a difference of opinion within the Sooners themselves, of whether it's divine election, divine appointment or election. He's asked me to put one situation with this election. There were appointments where there were elections, according to Anderson, ojima, you don't accept it. So

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it's time now. So I've given you your time, can I can I can I give you four, for example, for example, when Othman laffin was being elected, and he was being elected.

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So when I often left and was being elected so much more, I mean, the Sahaba they came together, and they elected us manifesto values and everything that happened, that was part of history, you've asked me to bring 1.1 evidence. So with this from a Sunni perspective, since we have this information, there is evidence to suggest that election is in fact, divinely ordained. And in fact, it's in different rooms Robaina home. And so it's a shorter, Chapter 42 of the Quran says and consultation and the situation or the fairest consultation among them. So there is Quranic precedence to this whole idea of election. However, if you say no, but I'm not completely convinced.

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And it could be it has to be divine appointment, I'll say Listen, you make a point, the assumption is, I made the same point as you do. This is not the thing that differentiates you from being a Sunni or Shiite, you can be a Sunni and believe in the divine election, it's not a problem. What I'm saying is that the thing that differentiates you from being a senior associate is the fact that we do not we completely reject the idea that there are 12 imams of divine, divinely appointed. Now we are talking about that you've come here to speak about that. So you have I've got a minute left so I'm just the thing is broke. What you said to me on the phone is that we you are you said it today

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today, you said that the questions answered. The brother uses because it answered them every time I asked about the 12 imams in the Quran, there is not time to answer that question. But you have to ask me all the questions. We're not talking about that. Why not? Why not? This is the difference between Sunnis and Shias? Why aren't we talking about that we should be so we really should be talking about that. You should convince me that your 12 imams starting from Malian Abu Talib ending with Mohammed Adam has lasqueti is gonna forge it's gonna be ending with Mohammed and half Lastly, these individuals that all of them are not only divinely appointed, but they have isomer, which

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means that they're infallible that they have potential to know everything as per the Hadith or the vibe of the Hadith in El cafe. No, no, excuse me, hold on, let me finish. I haven't finished yet. That they have potential to know everything they have potential to know everything as in the bat, there's a chapter heading in a cafe, which is their most authoritative book, they have potential to know as much as Allah, according to our cafe according to our colony, and yes, of course, it doesn't, it'll capture certain now, it says in the cafe abarbanel Cafe, which means a chapter header heading, it says alkaline he said that either Sha

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Bab is a shirt and a meme and yada yada,

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yada yada. If the man wants to know anything he will know it includes so he has potential for all knowledge, which means that the man can reach the same knowledge that Allah does. So to teach us why this is true. Yes, so it's very clear that you have not answered my question.

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We asked for a single case in history up to Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu Sallam know after after we know they elected abubaker that's that's very clear. But the question was if they elected abubaker and his by elections, then the problem for me is that the legitimacy of Omar comes under question because he was appointed he was not elected according to me.

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limit and as far as man he was chosen by five people does not age man of the oma Omar said these five people or six people this council that you pull Shura if they disagree and they don't agree kill them all and if they have a dispute between them then the one who chooses will be the holiday. So is this very This is not the Shura as sorry

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767 doesn't matter.

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So can I ask you, not to interrupt you? So my problem is this if you say elections, the legitimacy of Omar is under question. If you say it is appointment, the legitimacy of oath, man, if you say it's elections, as well as Abubakar comes under question, so which one you have to choose one? Okay, now I'm going to answer your question about Amanda you're saying you will be she as the you don't answer about the moment I'm gonna tell you very clearly. Okay. For us, Emma, as is for you. And khilafah is who is the representative of Allah and His Messenger after the Prophet This is the halifa of Rasulullah. Okay, in terms of being infallible, that's not even a requirement for Shiite

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Islam. Okay, that sounds awesome. Having knowledge I will tell you of course, for us we believe that a divine leader must have the necessary knowledge to guide people otherwise how can he be a guide? Okay, if he's not given the knowledge needed, for example, he doesn't know if he'll payrolling let's say, and there's a problem How is he going to resolve and he's the leader of the Muslim and of course Allah has given the knowledge we're not no one ever claimed that he has knowledge which is equal to Allah we believe that we believe that they are slaves of Allah subhanaw taala anything they have comes from Allah and it's funny that you would say that because in your sign Buhari almost puts

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himself above Allah. Okay, he says I thought of three things and Allah agreed with me inside a Muslim Okay, well I felt an Arab beefy Salafi, you could you could Google it guys. And if you want our kids, when we upload the I could put a link under the video with references of anything, so don't come at us Don't throw stones if your house is made of glass Omar says I thought of three things and Allah in His infinite knowledge didn't know when I thought this was almost said this is correct. This is the one so don't attack us about about knowledge of the Imam that he needs to guide people. Okay, for us ama is very clear. We see history of Islam history of all religions, every

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single divine leader was appointed by Allah subhanaw taala. And we say the same thing about the first Khalifa and we have many, many, many, many sources as you very well know that we can prove that Allah was the one selected by the prophet and appointed for him. And I'm asking you to resolve this contradiction. If it is legitimate if it is for sure. transactions. Omar type

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appointment then

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thank you. No, no, no, no, he's Muslim.

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Yeah.

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I don't accept okay.

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No, no, no, no.

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I don't accept that Omar is above Allah. Allah. Okay. But

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okay. So I think now I think to be honest with you, let's just be completely honest. The points you've made now show that you're academically disingenuous, I think this is the point that people are gonna be listening to this and you suddenly, like, you know, right mind as soon is going to be listened to this is not going to be thinking, Oh, look, you know, he really gave a good point, that sort of thing. This guy, he's, he's clearly got a hill in his heart.

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He's clearly got some kind of resentment to almond rooftops to the extent where he says that we believe or as mentioned in cyber Holodomor said that I'm above alarms, so Muslims, or whatever it is that we're fuckin European. If he says, it means that the Alma top says that I have knowledge that doesn't have or that I'm higher than Allah. This is not the translation Western European, if you select in Arabic means that Allah subhanaw taala. He agreed with me in three different things. So in other words, what he's trying to say is that when honorable hottub he had the idea that for example, you know, hijab had the idea of hijab, and then the air of hijab came down to the northern kingdoms.

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So he thought about it, and then afterwards, the revelation came down in a later period. So in other words, his fifth law and Subhanallah This is the irony, surprise, predisposition, was so clear that he was able to kind of understand some of the legal rulings that Allah subhanaw taala would later enforce and put into place before it has been enforceable into place. Now, if you think this is some kind of almond topping of Allah subhanaw taala This is ignorance of the highest degree so you can keep that to yourself. It's not a problem. Having said that, here, we're talking about that in May you haven't answered the fact that you've got 12 divine authorities that have been that have been

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basically elected by Allah according to the sheer position. Okay, the chosen by a law according to the chair, the Shiite position, and these 12 individuals have, they're infallible, they have the propensity and the you know, the the ability to

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To know all knowledge which is the same as Allah, which would make them equals with Allah, which is minimalistic, if anyone believes in, they will come out of Islam completely. The Imam can have the potential to know that the same as Allah, that means that Allah and him have the same knowledge. That's what it means. let's not let's not beat around the bush, that's what your that's what your email, that's what your ad says. So not only are they infallible, they have the potential for all knowledge, which is mentioned in the tab, which means the chapter headings of the most authoritative hypohidrotic in the history of Shia Islam, which is our colony, and his most authoritative book,

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which is called al cafe, or pseudo cafe. This is mentioned Why don't you notice? I've got so can you prove the reference? You have to I've mentioned it, but you won't check it out, give me the reference. So it says

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so this is this is if the IMA wants to know anything, then let them they will know it anything they will have any knowledge on what they want to know. They will know it. So they have the potential to know as much as Allah This is what you're calling us to 12 individuals who have this ability. Where is your evidence from the Quran and Sunnah. Please give it to us. Why don't you first of all, I'm a bit offended that you call me in disingenuous and that I have some hatred or something in my heart. I don't know maybe you're giving yourself this, this knowledge from Allah as well. I don't know. But I'm not gonna accuse you of anything. All I'm saying is, we say that a man needs knowledge to guide

00:26:19--> 00:26:56

people as I explained, Allah will give that to them because that is necessary for the gardens of the Ummah, if the man doesn't know the rules, how is he meant to guide people? So you say this is Hulu and share? But Omar says something and Allah agrees with him, does not show cannibal Subhanallah I don't know you judge yourself. who's who's been generous and not ingenuous. Okay, I think I'm not very happy with how this one but I'm just gonna, the only honestly you haven't been able to answer my question. Please answer me this. If throughout the history of humankind until Prophet Muhammad we all accept that every single divine authority was chosen by Allah subhanaw taala where then did

00:26:56--> 00:27:29

people get legitimacy to elect aboubaker or othmar? If you think it wasn't elections, it was appointment. Okay, then abubaker is on the question of you saying it was elections of man is under question you have to resolve for me this contradiction. Now, I have a challenge for you. And that is if we prove to you from the center from the center of your books and your allama agree that this is these are the half that the Prophet said just was as was the case in history since Adam, that he I am acquainting for you Elisa, and that is Imam Ali. Ali is your halifa would you accept

00:27:31--> 00:27:36

If you say no then do not call yourself Sudanese after this because you saying even if the Prophet told me

00:27:37--> 00:27:56

I'm sorry. If if you're saying even if the Prophet said is the halifa we don't get to accept so don't call yourself Sudanese anymore and this is the reason why I said in the beginning that it is the sooner that makes me follow him early as the first Khalifa because we have a hadith in your books as well.

00:27:57--> 00:28:11

Sorry, I'm interrupting. So you're interrupting what can we see we use narrations which both sides accept or narrations that one side accept as fudger upon them okay, please, no more interruptions Okay. Now we have

00:28:13--> 00:28:55

a hadith antimony be Maserati Haruna Mimosa, Ella Anika less than abbia. Will And finally, if he could limit men and body Okay, and they're happy and unhappy and say this is correct, according to the conditions of Bukhari and Muslim for me, this is very clear, you are my Khalifa after me. Your alley after me not after 40 years after? Not after 40 years after this man you are my halifa after me Saha according to Buhari and Muslim, and Mr. Dark, they're heavy. And Hakeem and Alberni says is correct Muslim dogma says is correct showcar and he says is correct. machaca says is correct, and hates him. He says it's correct. I can put a link as I said, with the references if you'd like So my

00:28:55--> 00:29:17

question to you is now when the Prophet is sending you in your car, okay, that is my Khalifa after me. Do you say we accept or do you say we reject? Thank you. Let me answer that question directly to start off with I think that what you've actually quoted is different from what you've translated. And this is the problem with today's discussion is that you you find that read out again in Arabic and many women Zilla to less less

00:29:19--> 00:29:52

less than a year and Khalifa t equal a minimum body okay one to halifa t SQL remote meaning mean body you know what this actually this discussion here? I mean, this is this is the disingenuously unfortunately this is the problem with the academic discourse here and to Halifax equilibar many of equally Muslim this just a from the Hadees It doesn't mean that you're calling from anybody that's what he said and even when bad is never been uttered by the prophet Mohammed Salah Salaam in any of the Hadith and I challenge you right now. No, no, he said in it physically movement, vitamin body. And

00:29:53--> 00:30:00

this is a different this is a different discussion here. And if it is equally movement, it halifa typically movement. It doesn't

00:30:00--> 00:30:08

mean that you are my Holly or you are a halifa You are my halifa halifa t SQL limo. Yes. Okay now this is

00:30:10--> 00:30:11

that means to say that

00:30:13--> 00:30:36

first of all and there is talk about this hadith and with this by the way, you mentioned some of the people that apparently made it strong but with this kind of with this kind of syntax there's a lot of talk about whether it's strong or not anyways in the first place there's a very similar Hadith which can be found as a Muslim, this is this this is life Anyways, what you find this on Muslims is hold on hold on, this was this wording has been said to be die by the majority.

00:30:38--> 00:31:14

So anyways, this is according to many many, many of the many of the scholars of Hadith. Having said that though, there is a hadith which is similar to it which can be found inside Muslim Yeah. Which which talks about the idea of you are like heroin to me like whatever this just a side this part of it is this part of it we don't reject. We say that just because the Prophet Mohammed Salah Salah you want Ali Abner Batali we have to understand Yeshua, we accept him as a very, very high authority. We love him for the sake of Allah subhanaw taala we believe that following golly, Vitaly is like, almost like following the Prophet Muhammad Rasul Allah. Why? Because the Prophet Mohammed Salim told

00:31:14--> 00:31:23

us this. What did he say this? He said in Muslim Ahmed, which answers your second question. He said in Muslim Muslim, aleikum wa salatu salam, ala rasulillah, Medina,

00:31:25--> 00:31:26

this hadith it says that,

00:31:27--> 00:32:01

so this hadith is non Muslim. It's another book of Hadith. It says that you upon you is the son of the Holy Father, she doesn't matter. Who are they and Muslim Ahmed is mentioned that it takes 30 there will be there for 30 years. And that often is somebody who will combat adeleke. So if we, excuse me, hold on, I'm talking about what's harder for me. What's harder for me is that when you look at four and a half years of Abu Bakr Siddiq, and then added a four and a half year of oxidic, 10 years and six months of alpha 11 years, 11 months of my life, and and then and then four years, in six months, or wherever it was available. These are and hustle and hustle as well. If you add it

00:32:01--> 00:32:20

all up, this is the profession. So we have to follow those individuals. So whatever they come up, it's like we follow them. Because the Prophet told us to follow them. You get you get how it works for us. You understand? Yeah, thank you. Now, you said this is week this is the eighth and even if the Prophet said he's Khalifa t, so you know,

00:32:21--> 00:33:03

alpha t minus alpha, right, immediately after he mentioned, you said, a Muslim we have an eye and I accept it. We have the Hadith as only part of it that you don't want to me as Harun Muslim. So what is the status of heroin on to Moosa? We see in the Koran Moses says, If you told me, we might halifa among my people. So what is the position of Harun onto Moosa in the Koran you want to Quranic evidence, right? In the Quran, Harun is the halifa of Musa so if Moosa is doesn't matter, you might say come back and say oh, Harun died first. It doesn't matter. We're talking about the position. What is the position if Moosa had died when he went to the mountain who would have been

00:33:04--> 00:33:43

hard on according to the Quran? Okay, you are unto me as Harun was on to masa, except there's no prophet if he meant that you're not also my halifa except that no prophet and you are not the first halifa You are the fourth one for example. So if I say, look, everything I own belongs to you except my house. Okay, then the house is the only exception if the car was meant to be also an exception. I would have said my house and my car, right. So this also proves to us from the Quran that Emily's definition. And you It's funny you mentioned this hadith is weak, because we have another wording for it as well. My total and takuna Mini Beeman Zilla t Haruna Mimosa in less than a B in Lyon,

00:33:43--> 00:34:24

Bobby and Illa Wanda halifa t it is not proper that I should leave. This wasn't the bottom of the book. He left him early in Medina, it's not proper that I should leave except as you as my halifa Allah want to leave it. So if it's not proper for me to leave except as you as my halifa during my life, so by priority, you have to be my halifa after my death, that is that makes perfect sense. And the word Khalifa is being used yanase Allah, yani, if we want to follow the Sunnah of the Prophet, the son of the Prophet is telling us his mentality and we have another place where he says halifa this is three cases now. Okay. The first time ever the Prophet mentioned his prophet to his close

00:34:24--> 00:34:43

people, one that I showed up to contravene and preach to Veritas people, he brought them and he said, which one of you would support me to be okay, well, we'll see you at the family stood up, sit down. YALI. Again, which one wants to be my halifa and family stands up? Sit down Ali, who wants to be my halifa and family stands up your alley, and

00:34:44--> 00:34:59

we'll see you at Khalifa tea since the first day. Okay. So who mentioned this, this is mentioned in tipsy robbery and theft serum and Kathy and the mama bear in Florida Sahaba recovery By the way, even Tamia. If you follow

00:35:00--> 00:35:03

slf Evan Tamia says with a zero agenda

00:35:04--> 00:35:11

and he says is the best one. Why don't we have koramangala slfp ehsani de la saffi hibbett? I

00:35:13--> 00:35:15

mean, he does not okay.

00:35:17--> 00:35:21

Let me just finish my, it doesn't bring narrations from people with my own with me. This is according to me. So I

00:35:22--> 00:36:00

am I'm Elisa Khalifa tabari, as according to Ibn taymiyyah, you quoted in yourself and also and also foreign, when he talks about basically the three things he said the three things that have the most wickedness in them. He said the three things he said the zero and he said Tafseer is one of them, and noisy. Now these three things, obviously, everybody who knows how to open a book understands the rules and regulations regarding it, that sit atop it is filled with weak Hadith, and it's filled with us it is filled with your fairy tales and all this kind of things. This is you don't say somehow like this. This is me teaching you that which you don't know. Because actually the other No,

00:36:00--> 00:36:08

hold on, excuse me. You've met you've mentioned even Tamia. So now I'm giving you Evan Tamia in context, because you said even told me I hear Yeah, even told me I said that. Yes.

00:36:09--> 00:36:20

But he did say that. But you have to caveat that with the fact that he also said that tafsir including a tuber is one is filled with weak Hadees. And this is what he said this and also he said this in his book and also

00:36:22--> 00:36:59

Quran Allah Khurana, he said Dynabook, so having said that, now you have three things, which according to me, you mentioned are weak. So the hadiza is mentioning a week a week from poverty tafsir, which is a book which is filled with ideas. So that's the point number one, number one number two, this is really interesting what he's saying. Now I understand his argument before I didn't understand it fully. Okay. Yes. Now understand his argument. He said, he actually takes the word halifa. Here, meaning halifa as in the leader of the Muslims. So when the Prophet Mohammed according to the wickedness that he quoted, said, antiproliferative, quote, We need your my halifa

00:36:59--> 00:37:34

in the moment when he thinks it's actually the Prophet Mohammed saying, You are my leader. Do you know how ridiculous this is? Because that's what it means enter halifa different Romanian, excuse me, hold on. It means linguistically. If you take the word halifa He means the leader, then it means that he's saying you're my leader. So Ali, in avatar live according to this man, if you take what he's saying, literally, is the leader of Muhammad Rasul Allah. This is the truth. If you want to take what you're saying literally, that's why Mr. Hale, Auckland, it's impossible from a from a from a UK EU perspective to take this country forward there, even though we need to mean that he's the

00:37:34--> 00:37:38

leader. Because if you're saying enter halifa t, u and this is malkia. Yeah.

00:37:40--> 00:37:55

This is a possessive Yeah. Which means your mind halifa which means here that he believes that the Prophet Mohammed Salim said that child never told him you're my leader. What kind of nonsense is this? This is hollow zollo ism, you're gonna go into hollow ism, you're gonna become like Bashar Al Assad.

00:37:56--> 00:37:58

Now, this is point number two. Point number three.

00:38:00--> 00:38:26

You still have not been able to give me any verse of the Quran, one verse that tells us 12 imams that we have to follow. Give me something my friend, you've been here for a long time your friend has tried it. Your other friend has tried it. You're the third person I'm speaking to please, please give me one verse. I'm ready to become shy. Yes, I'm going to do it. I'm ready to become Shia answer this question directly because people are gonna start doubting she hasn't been escaping from Shia Islam. I'm telling you just give me one verse from the Quran that talks about the trophy memes.

00:38:28--> 00:38:49

We don't need to bring any of us from the Quran to prove our ummah. Why? Because every single Muslim believes that there has to be a halifa after the Prophet. This is a trap that you set up for previous debaters that didn't understand there has to be a halifa by Hmm, I'm born Muslim. And the only difference is must he be appointed or elected? Remember asking us to bring an ayah from the Quran I brought you up to la hora sudo.

00:38:50--> 00:39:25

obey those with authority among you, you won't accept to another sub t fine. But there's no question that there has to be a halifa after the Prophet, you're trying to run away from the question again, we're saying is it by appointment or by election? Which one if it's appointment, I will buckers legitimacy is under question. If it is by elections, then Omar is under question. You have not still answered me this question. And you have not also answered me my challenge that I asked you first bring us one case in history where Allah told the people to choose their leader. Now it's funny that you mentioned that Allah is the halifa over the Prophet and that is something which is

00:39:27--> 00:39:43

no one has ever seen that from our side. Certainly not me. Exactly. My question is about the halifa after the Prophet so if the province and he's my halifa and you're not accepting and you're trying to wriggle out of it, what more do you want the prophet to do? And it's funny you mentioned that he was weak even though I've been

00:39:44--> 00:39:51

fine, but you fail to answer the other Hadith will enter halifa tea member the what I am very

00:39:53--> 00:40:00

happy under hacking say this is authentic according to the conditions of Sahih Bukhari and Muslim. Answer this one if you can. Don't tell me

00:40:00--> 00:40:00

About about a year

00:40:06--> 00:40:17

okay, and if you have the doubts about the first one the second one Fine, I'll give you the third one. You saying oh he might be halifa over me fine then nitara country comb, leaf attain

00:40:18--> 00:40:22

a niche article you can call everything to tabouleh and then why 30 elevated?

00:40:24--> 00:40:44

So the book of Allah and my annual baits are my whole effort. Okay, there's no question here that the wives are not included because the wife Can't believe. And lady Fatima can be included either because the lady who are the hula, hula, they are they? Who are they? Ali Hassan saying these are the hula, hula and who said this is

00:40:45--> 00:40:49

an L Bonnie says okay, I might have been humbled says she

00:40:51--> 00:40:51

says it's a higher

00:40:53--> 00:40:58

up so this is Lucy nsfc says sorry. Okay, enough is for us lol Bonnie.

00:41:00--> 00:41:03

Because he is one of your top scholars, you know him very well.

00:41:05--> 00:41:28

We don't accept it that much. I'll put the references for the viewers who are genuinely seeking the truth. Brothers if you claim to be so nice following the Sunnah of the Prophet. Is this not part of the Sunnah of the Prophet? Micah tamaqua. Don't tell me the wives. Don't tell me is the wives. Okay. Okay. And obviously, you've been evading the questions and you trying to say on we play your voice of

00:41:30--> 00:41:48

conditions. Okay. Now, the Hadith where he mentioned of the Holy 14, this is a weak Hadith. This is a weak Hadith. According to the majority of scholars of Islam, the one that is strong, which you could have quoted, which we accept is set up to be a female and Temasek can be lent to the lava had evidence that we have left

00:41:49--> 00:41:52

behind that which if you if you hold on to them, you'll never go astray

00:41:53--> 00:42:27

catappa logic The Book of Allah and why celebrating this is a Muslim. Yeah. So this is a this is a Sahih Hadith which we accept and elevate above it. Now what we do say is that we have followed this Hadith, we follow a debate. I mean, this is what we are claiming to be as suitable Gemma are not against load bait. This is the problem. He is conflating two issues, just like he did when he said that you have the whole affair. And then you have the judgment that there has to be a halifa and now so therefore there's no motion. This is a this is not a problem of it's not a laugh, there's no difference of opinion, of course, is this your conflict This is called it's called conflation. And

00:42:27--> 00:42:52

when you're basically making an argument where you're equating the halifa, which can be you know, Malik Marwan whatever it could be any any person could be the ultimate ruler could be anyone, according to some. And they, which are meant to be infallible, pro higher than profits except for the Prophet Mohammed Salim people that we have to follow as a matter of religion if we live without them. And if we reject them, then we will leave Islam completely. According to a movie.

00:42:54--> 00:43:28

What are you doing here, man? This is you're talking about the difference between halifa a leader of the Muslims, you could be anybody? Anybody? Yeah, there's nine conditions according to more than a council. Tony. There's nine conditions for halifa. It could be anybody that's a man and, you know, fulfills the criteria, whatever. And you're conflating this with the 12. imams are divinely ordained. And you're trying to say that the evidence is not the same, they're not one of the same. The evidence is or not one of the same we agree with the idea of PLF we don't agree with the idea of MMA, MMA is the idea that you have 12 individuals dying with allien, avatar, and ending with

00:43:29--> 00:43:59

lasqueti, all of which are infallible, that they have the knowledge, the propensity to have all knowledge of creation, that they can have the same knowledge that Allah subhanaw taala, as per the as per the chapter heading of El Kalani in his book, our cafe cafe, this is this is what you're setting us to believe. And let's not lie about it, let's not do i'm not saying accusing you of, of concealing the truth. But hey, you have to be direct, you have to be direct and answer me. Where is the evidence for this? While you're giving me his evidence, you're trying to give me evidence that it was meant to be next in line, even if we accept for the sake of argument, and we don't accept

00:43:59--> 00:44:29

that. We do not accept that. But even if we accept for the sake of argument, it is meant to be next in line we accept for the sake of argument and say, What has this got to do with the 20 minutes that we have to follow all of the memes? This is not you're conflating evidences, you're coming in here trying to prove me by giving me evidence of khilafah This is embarrassing. You have to now prove imama which is one of your Pillars of Islam. That is the Shahada is not mentioned in the Hadith that talks about the five pillars but Amanda is mentioned we lay it as mentioned and will only remember one of the same thing. You have to prove to me Mama from the Quran from the Sunnah. Not in Africa,

00:44:29--> 00:44:37

we agree. So flogging a dead horse. Go ahead, sir. You yourself say mama and kalasa after the Prophet is the same thing, use the terms interchangeably.

00:44:40--> 00:44:52

It was linguistic Hebrew, you're slightly different say Mr. McCullough, for the same thing, and there was interchangeably Okay, I'm talking to you here on a very specific subject to kill off after the Prophet. I'm not talking about talking about you're talking about talking.

00:44:55--> 00:44:57

Because that means you run away from the discussion

00:44:58--> 00:45:00

or I want to continue

00:45:00--> 00:45:00

If you if you

00:45:02--> 00:45:04

know, I'm gonna I'm gonna answer this question because if

00:45:06--> 00:45:06

I'm gonna I'm gonna

00:45:10--> 00:45:11

change the topic.

00:45:13--> 00:45:14

Let me finish. Let me finish my question.

00:45:19--> 00:45:24

Remember civil, be civil and answer in your own time. So you're making the answer.

00:45:26--> 00:45:28

Be civil and the answer to this guy.

00:45:35--> 00:45:36

Can I request everyone?

00:45:37--> 00:45:41

You call me on the phone? You call me? He called me on the phone? You are running away?

00:45:43--> 00:45:45

From the tongue of the Prophet, listen, correct.

00:45:49--> 00:45:50

So why are you Why are you saying?

00:45:53--> 00:45:54

And you're saying, I brought you

00:46:01--> 00:46:02

know talking about No, no, no, no.

00:46:07--> 00:46:07

You get when

00:46:09--> 00:46:10

you run away.

00:46:14--> 00:46:16

An ad hominem attack even if I run away and I'm a coward.

00:46:28--> 00:46:28

Let me

00:46:39--> 00:46:40

Please let me Please let me speak.

00:46:42--> 00:47:06

First of all, it is a lie that moms will have the same knowledge as Allah. Why because logic tells you a mom is a slave created. It's not in the Hadith. I asked you to prove it. I didn't give you I'll give you there's no such thing. So it's against the logic so you reject it? Of course like a limited slave or a limited slave of Allah. I don't have the same knowledge as the infinite knowledge of hamdulillah

00:47:10--> 00:47:14

Omar says I am i think i think of something and Allah accepts and you know

00:47:15--> 00:47:17

I have another I have another

00:47:19--> 00:47:20

no but you know

00:47:23--> 00:47:24

I can I can decide to walk away

00:47:27--> 00:47:29

Let me say one thing I know you speak out you're

00:47:31--> 00:47:32

you're fine. No problem.

00:47:35--> 00:47:37

Jamia okay says we'll

00:47:41--> 00:47:43

do that will hire

00:47:45--> 00:48:22

us as in rulership over the people is from the most important module of the deen that the deen and dunya cannot remain without it. Okay. And hence why Abu Bakr chose Omar because he was very clever, he knew that this is so important by the prophet sallallahu earlier, who explained to us even how to eat and how to drink and how to sleep I forgot to mention anything about the most important thing that the whole religion stands upon is a is a very contradictory statement. We don't believe that we believe the Prophet don't we believe the prophets are pointed in an alley where Home For example, He says less than 10 an hour I

00:48:24--> 00:48:32

don't believe that I am more have more authority over the believers than themselves. They said yes. Why? Because Allah in the Quran, but

00:48:34--> 00:48:54

then he repeated again. Okay, let's don't tell anyone and the owner because they said yes, you have more authority over us than ourselves and look at the deficit Waterbury and others say, they say this is like the mastery of a master over his slave and even more. Now what did he say after the main consumer he took the hand of mankind to Mola

00:48:55--> 00:49:03

Mola. So what does mala mean here? Don't tell me his friend, because he just explained to us the context. You say mala has 40 different meanings? The Prophet

00:49:05--> 00:49:19

Allah, Allah, Allah, whoever I have more authority over him, then Allah has more authority over him and where is this? This is Sahih Allah Shaka Shane, this is on the conditions of Aryan Muslim, Bonnie correct. Okay.

00:49:20--> 00:49:21

Okay.

00:49:22--> 00:49:25

Also, Omar came after and gave allegiance, he said

00:49:28--> 00:49:29

the beginning of the

00:49:31--> 00:49:32

summer came afterwards. I said

00:49:36--> 00:49:45

if he meant friend, why does he need to come and congratulate him? You become my friend you already my friend. Unless we were enemies and I don't know. Okay. So I

00:49:46--> 00:49:48

understood that this means

00:49:49--> 00:49:54

about Ahmad is mentioned in Akhmad they've been humble on the old says is correct.

00:49:57--> 00:49:59

In the beginning of this man, he called me and he said that

00:50:00--> 00:50:33

He wants to discuss the issue of MMR with me. Yeah. So here as you can see, as I was asking him questions and questions and questions about the 12 imams in the Quran, and elsewhere, he knew that there was no evidence for it. So we had to change the topic from MMR to from a topic that all of us disagree on to a topic that there could be agreement on we agree for example, that this he left after Mohammed Salah there's a disagreement within Sunni Islam as I explained to him in the beginning of whether it's divine appointment or election. So here if you put your strongest argument forward and we still accept it would still be Sunday. So the idea of Colombia is not it's not really

00:50:33--> 00:51:08

a it's fun it's not a foundational issue is not an earthly matter. That's why here I didn't want to talk about it, because it's not something which differentiate differentiates you from suddenly point number one point number two about the home as you were talking about makuta Mola Mola, this hadith with this wording is not a Muslim is found in other books like Odin is and other books and this had this this column on it, this column on or even the most of it, this column on it, if you let me say this week, for example, but for the sake of argument, I'm going to say no, it's not weak because I think I believe that the majority of scholars in this particular regard like a neverwet and others

00:51:09--> 00:51:11

do say a strong Okay, so let's take it what is

00:51:12--> 00:51:48

value molar what is no lemon, according to the Sonata, which is a book of a merger. It's one of the biggest and most comprehensive Arabic dictionaries Mola Mola, if you go back to what the word no lemons means, nasiru someone who does not have someone, so who basically helps someone, someone who is beloved to someone else, someone who is a friend of someone else, now, what itself has 11 different meanings linguistically, linguistically actually means slave master, so someone is a slave master. So how do we understand this? How does in context, basically what happens is that there are some people of the sahaabah who had a run in with olive Naphtali this one in made some people have

00:51:48--> 00:52:28

this haba not like they had some friction with him. So the profit he went to her home which is by the way, a desolate area, around 125 kilometres, meters sorry miles 125 miles away from Medina, which is about five hours drive or a two day with the speed with the hose. You go there he went. Then he says makuta Mola Valeo Mola, whoever is is my master or is my The one who does not sort of mirror the software of me all these kind of things, then this alley is the same thing. We don't disagree with that, where does it say now if you say this means halifa this this is what this is the reality here. This is listen to this. If you say this means halifa that means to say because he

00:52:28--> 00:53:02

didn't say mean body or after me or anything like that. It means that there were two leaders because that manku Mola Mola, whoever was my master is or whoever is my friend, whoever you want to translate, my leader, let's say is your translation, whoever is my lead analysis leader as well. So in other words, those two leaders and according to a hadith in both of our books, if you have two leaders, you have to kill the second one, so we have never done it. So this is the point. The idea really is here, you're trying your best to squeeze a meaning and superimpose that understanding from your home which is your action your strongest argument which you can actually do. Okay, it seems

00:53:02--> 00:53:22

that the one that killed 70 profits in the same day they were following the idea that it is more than one profit will either we have to kill them, right. So if you doubt it now, you saying Moeller doesn't mean halifa even though Omar gave allegiance Omar understood it means Khalifa but you don't. We brought you three different cases where the Prophet saying halifa t halifa.

00:53:23--> 00:53:33

Now I asked Let's ask Omar. Okay, okay, what is the meaning of the word Wally? Okay, Omar and Sahara Muslim. He says tomato falana bo

00:53:34--> 00:54:05

Liu rasulillah. The prophets of Allah costway Abu Bakr said I am the Valley of Rasulullah and then he said for going to Anna will you be back and I am the Valley of Abu Bakr please explain to me here how well he is not Khalifa Abubakar valley of the Prophet and I am the Valley of Abu hanifa there is no question is different. So what Mola Wally, well, don't interrupt, okay, now can we find any place where the Prophet said Allah is the Wali? Okay, and now Ali and Mineo and I'm in

00:54:06--> 00:54:20

a moment in body and then another narration. Body. Okay. More than 30 of your allama have said this is not so Dina albani says hi Alicia, Muslim, Nasir Dina.

00:54:23--> 00:54:34

And in Ali and many women are men who are what do you call him a winning body? He is the Valley of every believer after me. We know what he means here. Yeah, okay. Advani says hey, hockey Manisha booty says

00:54:35--> 00:54:59

okay, the hubby says this is under conditions of Korean Muslim Muslim albani also says hi. So, yeah, okay, let me speak okay. For us as I told you the Sunnah of the prophet is what leads me to be a Shia of Allah and take him as the first Khalifa I did not mention about the 12 demands I'm talking to you don't want to talk about I'm talking about Okay, who is the halifa after the prophet and that was the only subject and I never jumped from that. And you've been joining us

00:55:00--> 00:55:42

Now all I say is well okay, all I say is okay, that how can you as people who claim to, to follow the Sunnah of the Prophet, okay? Say that you follow the Sunnah of the Prophet why you reject all of this Sunnah and you find ways to run away. Well, he said about Ali Mala. He said halifa he said, What more do you want him to do? Even visual demonstration? He stands up, sit down your alley stands up again. Even if you bring someone who's good and drama, he can't do it better than this three times. He's standing just in case there's any confusion who is the hollyford? Okay, now for us. Okay. We ask why? One of these words that the Prophet used for Ali, why never any one of them came

00:55:42--> 00:55:44

for anyone else. Why did the Prophet never say

00:55:46--> 00:56:05

about the worker or? Anyone else? Why all of these words come about? Okay, so one of them is enough to make you at least realize that there is some truth here. We need to follow. We need to research I'm not I'm not here to try and make someone's Shia or Sunni. That's not my case. Okay. All right. So join

00:56:07--> 00:56:15

me tonight. Okay, go ahead. Okay, so how does your unconscious allow you can do it once then do it once it's not for people will be watching.

00:56:18--> 00:56:19

No discussion?

00:56:21--> 00:56:26

Would you like to go for 20 more seconds? No, go ahead. No, please, please. I respect you. And I'll give you another minute.

00:56:28--> 00:56:28

Okay, hello.

00:56:30--> 00:57:02

Hey, like, you know, the words really is different to Moeller and this is this is again, how it's a problem and moving you know, moving and in the process, the movements, the the male male movements were believers and the female believers. Both of them are Alia Bob, and the other one is really where William is ally. Yeah, so this so you're saying that the Prophet Muhammad Ali, there is a way of course. Of course, he's a really if we're all values of each other. We're meant to be wedded to each other, the meaning and the meaning of each Oh allies of each other. Then you tell me the olive

00:57:04--> 00:57:31

oil is gonna be a really, he's got Of course, he's gonna be of course, you're gonna be a Willie. See, this is the problem here. He started with talking about MMR. He talked to me about running away. Even if I let's say, I run away. I'm a coward. I'm a week. Yeah. If I run away, I have no ego. Like, if I'm if I'm a coward. Does that mean Sunni? Islam is wrong. It's an ad hominem attack. So now he has to continue attacking me as a person. It's not a problem. I have no ego. attack me. Yeah. And I'm not saying I'm You're right. I'm a coward. Having said that, number one, number two.

00:57:32--> 00:57:51

Number two, this has helped. First of all, we talked about a mama he knew he couldn't prove from the Quran or from the Sunnah whatsoever. So he had to run away to a point of agreement between the Sunni and the Shia. He had to run away from a point of disagreement to a point of agreement, because he knows that he will agree with him on this. Yeah, okay, this should be full of alpha, the prophet, for example,

00:57:52--> 00:58:15

who's disagreeing with this? Who you're framing as a disagreement, not a disagreement. Now he's doing another another conflation by saying that the word Willy is Thomas molar, either he doesn't know he's Arab himself. So he either he doesn't know the difference. Or he's intentionally trying to sabotage this debate by conflating words which are completely different to each other. What what he means ally, molar actually comes from the root word meaning slave owner.

00:58:16--> 00:58:23

We're not alone in the Quran. The non the Hellfire is a molar for them. So you can have the Hellfire as being a molar.

00:58:25--> 00:58:47

This is how linguistically the word can be used. You get the word Well, it can be used for the hellfire. Now, having said this, these differences are very important to put forward. I am going to make the challenge again. Okay. Here we didn't start this discussion talking about HIPAA. We didn't it's not fair to say we did. You spoke to me on the phone. You said I want to speak to you about Okay, I want to continue to speak about MMA. You said yes. Is that correct?

00:58:48--> 00:58:49

No, you didn't say

00:58:51--> 00:58:51

well

00:58:54--> 00:58:57

you're a liar. You're a liar. You're a liar liar because that you said email. No, no,

00:58:59--> 00:59:32

no, no, no, you're not. You said Remember, you spoke to me and you said you want to speak to me about Mmm, either you're lying and I don't have to because you're allowed to do any religion. Or you want to Oh, basically you're running away from the discussion because you know, email is impossible to prove. So is look when speakers corner as we come prepared, you came with your phone. I'm just asking you right now. Look at me. I'm empty handed. I'm just asking you right now. Right now the people are watching. Yeah, the people are watching. Please give us the give us the foundational evidence base for your concept of MMA, if not, people will just disbelieving what you have to say.

00:59:32--> 00:59:41

Okay. Now for us a mama is not from Sweden. So limited. This is your challenge. And I'm asking you and I'm answering your challenge okay.

00:59:43--> 00:59:56

The difference is that we don't impose it on other Muslims. We say you have to believe in to hate no boo. Let me speak you're taking my time as well. What's going on, bro? It was your time now you're interrupting me. What's going on? Okay, so sorry, sorry. We're sorry. We're sorry.

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Sorry for calling me a liar and all that.

01:00:00--> 01:00:03

Okay, so we believe in towhead noble Mr.

01:00:05--> 01:00:18

tauheed Nobu Ahmad whoever this believes in these three is not Muslim. Now the rest of the two other and Mr. masala madhhab we believe it for us like other also Sunni schools have their own sole method.

01:00:21--> 01:00:34

So, rejecting a mama, okay, not knowing about your mama doesn't lead to call for an Allah, it may lead to a mama. handler so we don't need to prove it from the Quran we say it is clear.

01:00:38--> 01:00:44

clear, clear. Don't interrupt me. Please. I'm taking you breaking your own rule, bro. What's going on?

01:00:46--> 01:00:46

Okay.

01:00:49--> 01:00:52

Let me let me let me tell you

01:00:53--> 01:01:36

give him give him I'm sorry. Yes, Southern salsa. All Muslims believe that there has to be a relief after the prophet and we say it is the sooner of Allah since either until the day of judgment to appoint divine authorities did the Prophet Muhammad appoint we see as I have proven to everyone the Prophet is Mola Wali Khalifa for a family. Okay. Manziel autonomy Moosa family so he's appointing people get back home he's appointed Yeah. So for us allama Holly has has has brought more than 2000 I think evidence about appointing Alia as the halifa for us because we follow the Sunnah of Allah and the Quran and we follow the Sunnah of the Prophet. it amounts to rejecting the Sunnah of the

01:01:36--> 01:02:00

prophet to say that Allah was not the Khalifa That is why I am a Shia of it because it is the Sunnah of the Prophet, which leads me to be a Shia Ali with all of these evidence bring me one case as we said one case where the Prophet said any of these words were Li Mola, halifa about anyone else. Why do they always come about Allah? Allah, Allah Allah Allah Allah Allah again, again, again again? How many times? What did the Prophet have to do to prove it to you?

01:02:02--> 01:02:09

Okay, look at look into your heart and your conscience. Okay? This is between you and Allah. Are you really following the Sunnah of the Prophet?

01:02:10--> 01:02:17

and reject all of these? For me that Paramount's to rejecting the Sunnah itself. So if I find what is right, if I find one example that's it.

01:02:19--> 01:02:20

So you're interrupting Yes.

01:02:22--> 01:03:00

So I think that's it. That's it. I think, Angela, that for the most part, this was a respectful discussion at least I didn't accuse the other side at least from one side It was very respectful no accusations of lying or anything like that if you like, and I will say amongst Elisa Lam says he was asked about what does it mean when we finished Neela for three minutes when the lack of foreign demand turbo homina homina Sol had so much data and I am very thankful to the one who seeks repentance is a believer and does good deeds and then he's guided so he was with us and then he's guided me, he said and then guided to our will. So before

01:03:01--> 01:03:04

so he's Yeah, exactly. So before we lie, yeah.

01:03:05--> 01:03:07

Stop No, no, no, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop.

01:03:11--> 01:03:11

Okay.

01:03:14--> 01:03:14

Let me speak.

01:03:23--> 01:03:29

Okay, let me answer let me answer. If you hold on slow, please can I speak?

01:03:31--> 01:03:40

If it is proven to you, undeniably, that Emma is correct. And then you reject my arrogance. This leads to call for

01:03:43--> 01:03:44

Allah to show Okay.

01:03:46--> 01:03:54

What does that mean? That says before you believe in Allah, you are a believer. You're repenting and you're doing good deeds, inshallah you are brothers.

01:03:57--> 01:03:58

Agree to disagree.

01:04:28--> 01:04:28

Are you?

01:04:34--> 01:05:00

Let's have a few minutes. Just give it two minutes here. I'm happy I'm happy with. He said. He said, Give me one. Exactly. He said a statement and everyone heard it. Yeah. He said, Give me one example. Where the words he said Mola halifa. Well, he is used for other than Allium never saw that this was his challenge, wasn't it? Was that your challenge? Yeah. And if I was able to find that, then how was your whole argument is crumbled, isn't it? Yes or no? Yes. Okay. That's

01:05:00--> 01:05:01

No, no, here's what he said.

01:05:02--> 01:05:03

Okay. In the Quran, it says

01:05:06--> 01:05:25

that we are actually Actually, I'm only to him and he's only to me. Your argument is crumbled already. I'm not even talking about a pub. I don't need to go to Alma. I'm only I'm only, I'm only you're talking about mmm I'll give you a verse in the Quran that means a minimum. It says a suitable contract is 25 the Quran

01:05:27--> 01:05:53

says no kurata iron or jamnalal mu tokina Mmm. May Allah give us as the people that listen to the Quran, good offspring in good water, good progeny. And make us to the Motoki, immense, immense. So I'm an Imam. And I'm a Willie. What's the difference? Now? According to the yoke, you said you want the words to be used? Yeah, I'm not gonna go too far because if you want me to go to your finished, it's mentioned in

01:05:55--> 01:06:06

your books is you're finished when you're finished. I'm not gonna go to my books. I'm gonna go to books. Yeah, it's mentioned the Nigel Bulaga. Yeah, your main book of Hadith. One of the main ones. Yeah. Which is acquired of Allah. Allah.

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That Allah subhanaw taala. He said himself that I was, I was elected. Listen to the words of Ali. I was elected not chosen by appointment by Allah. I was elected after Oman and abac and Osman. And they called me as they called them, and they called them imams. Oh my god.

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I'll get you that. I'll put it in the description box as well. No, I did in the previous discussion. You can you can find this discussion with the guy with

01:06:45--> 01:07:05

my notes. But No, I don't. So you can go to the previous discussion. Is there the previous discussion with the brother so here he made a challenge? Give me something where it says Nola Willie. Oh, remember whatever. Oh halifa I gave him but I give me ma'am. But who's saying it? I have never thought about going to our books. No, no, no, I couldn't see your book. Well, Salaam Alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh