Sh. Abu Usama Atthahabi on Salafism Cult vs Methodology

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Mohammed Hijab

Channel: Mohammed Hijab

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Episode Transcript

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Salam aleikum wa rahmatullah here. But

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when people try and understand Islam in a general sense, sometimes it can be let down by the media, it can be let down by islamophobes. They can be let down by a range of different

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people that talk about Islam.

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One thing that sometimes is under emphasized is the fact that non Muslims and Muslims alike are let down by Muslims themselves. They let down by Muslims who misrepresent Islam in both theory and in practice.

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Today, we're going to be consulting with one of the

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most prominent selfie die preachers, that has come to the United Kingdom, and has since then been quite prominent in selfie communities.

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Selfie meaning the way of the companions in his interactions with other selfies. He's encountered many groups, fringe groups, sectarian type fringe groups, who have one could argue distort the image of Islam in both theory and practice.

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Today, he's going to be describing to us his experience with some of the main scholars of such groups or some of the main scholars that are referenced by such groups.

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We will learn from this

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what he thinks the difference between a methodological Salafism is and a group Salafism.

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This will be an interview hopefully, which will shed light on some of the interactions between selfies and

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between each other. Not only that, but between selfies and non selfies. Hopefully this will be of use to you and a benefit to you.

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So I'm here with Adobe. Schiff was come from the United States, prominent in the United States dollar. And he's come to live in the UK. He's a graduate of Medina University, and has since then been very prolific in Salafi communities and interactions with all kinds of selfies. And we're here to ask him questions generally about Salafism but also more specifically about some of his own interactions. So I wasn't sure. Oh, yeah.

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So I'm sure I wanted to ask you generally for for our viewers, what you understand from the term selfie, and what is what is following the surge in your understanding smilla hamdu Lillah wa salatu salam, ala rasulillah. First of all, I want to extend a warm welcome to hominy Jad to my community here in Liverpool. We're honored to have him He allows you to put your efforts of traveling from where you came from all the way to here, putting in your skills of good deeds.

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Same thing, way of not a disclaimer, but making things very clear. Because I in the past, did a few things when I was giving advice to the brothers who are following the way of SP specifically and we're going to deal with these issues in Sharla instead of the publication's Yeah, always

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trying to maintain decorum and respect because my goal and my objective is not to fight people. Yes, my goal and my objective is to meet the dollar have set a fee and clear to people to the best of my ability. And in trying to do that it becomes really crucial that we have the etiquette of what we're claiming we're upon which is set it for you. As it relates to your question, as Sophia is the way that a Muslim is going to practice his religion, the way that our lives meaning and come to the point of view one, and what the prophet SAW the law it was setting them has advised with as well as an IRA before I realized, as I mentioned, the Colin Johnson that men can shut it on women hajer

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every single group of people, every community, every woman, we made for you A Sharia halau and haraam legislation of their way of life. And we made for them in manage the main hedge is the way that you go about practicing this religion. And the way that we go about practicing the religion is what our last call to in the Quran commanded and what the prophet sallallaahu Selim has also illustrated and called to in command and that is, following the way of the setup of this room, the center of this movement being at the top of the list, the companions, the allies will be pleased with all of them and then those people will

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The students of the companions known as the Tabby knee, and then those people were the students of the tagged me. And also those people came after them. So clearly we include the greatest scholars of Islam. And in ematic mmm Abu hanifa Imam, Imam Shafi, all four of them, and none other than them. All of them are from the people we call and described as the Senate. But at the top of the list is following LS fam, the way the companions did, so what they understood what its name is, it's what we understand Ellis lambs, the ribeye death and the worships that they did, we do the same thing, but they didn't do we don't do the eighth or the I got the celebrations that they did we do the same

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thing. So if there was something that the companions had the ability to do at their time, and they did not do it, we don't do it. It's as simple as that. And personally, with my personal one about the Muslims all of themselves, I don't believe there's a single Muslim walking on the face of the earth, no matter what his method is, no matter what his Muslim is, I don't believe that there is a Muslim in his right mind, except that every Muslim is going to say, I don't have a problem with following Abu Bakar remembers men and it, may Allah be pleased with that. And what they did is what we should be doing. So what happens is that a lot of things get lost in translation, because many

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people call themselves set a fee, they may not necessarily give a good picture of what he said if he is, and so then it becomes confused to other people that selfie, they conflate people's actions who are selfie with what selfie is. And before you ask the next question, I would just give this example. I'm gonna revert to this religion. And I'm African American. And the community that I came from was a community in which many Muslims came into my community and took advantage of my people. People were Pakistani people were Indians, Afghanistan, people were Arabs, they came into my community, they so common, it's so common. They sold us pork, they sold us items that were out of

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date, they ripped us off some of them. Now, when I looked at them, they didn't give a good picture of what Islam was. Now a person who may be Asian, a person who may be our person may be whatever, he's going to look at me. And he's going to say,

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we don't accept from you, I'm Osama, if you said you're going to reject Ellis land because of what those people used to do in your community, because they were not a reflection of Islam. They were Muslims, but they were not a reflection of Islam. So I make that same point. We have to disconnect 70 people who have a responsibility to live up to the name, as Muslims have a responsibility to live up to the meaning of Islam. But we don't always do that. But I'm just talking for people to understand, don't reject the truth because so and so or this one, that one is not practicing the truth is something that Islam rejects. And that's why last time I mentioned the statement of a lie.

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Yeah. And again, I'm no I leave coming full circle Labradoodle, Coleman bolay, that didn't do you are responsible for your own selves to do what's right to follow the truth. It doesn't hurt you if you do that those who go astray. So that's what Semper Fi is in a nutshell. So is it fair to say that really what you're describing is Islam, when you say Salafism in a sense that everything that a lot of parallel to Allah commands and the companions did, according to the word of the Prophet really is Islam. So Salafism and your understanding, and Islam are two sides of the same coin. No doubt about it. As safety is an Islam and Mustafa and Islam slam, which is pure and diluted, and it

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is not contaminated with anything. It is a synonym for a slam, just as a listener, is a synonym for practicing Islam, the correct way to Nigeria is a synonym for practicing Islam the correct way. So a set a fee shouldn't be understood to be something else. So when we talk about things and an intellectual way, we have to make sure that we make this very clear, but it's kind of like what the non Muslims make the mistake with. When we say a lot. We worship Allah, we believe in Allah. Sometimes non Muslims think a lot is another god other than the harlot that everybody worships. So when we say a lot, they think we have our own guy unto ourselves. No, we're talking about a harlot,

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the Lord of the worlds, Allah, Allah and Allah. So selfie is the same way. We don't want people people should not think when we say set a fee is something that is foreign, something

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Hell, no. All it is the definition, following this religion, the way the first generation follow this religion, I will buck on earth man it and the rest of those campaigns may allow me pleased with them. Now, a question I have is that there are some groups that have emerged,

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many of them very intolerant in different ways, right, and that ascribe themselves to Salafism. They'll say, I'm a selfie, they'll say I'm falling into this harbor. Some of them are seeing overseas extremists, for example, that do take fear. And they they also claim to follow the Sahaba. In our courses in this country and in parts of the West, we see ultra intolerant people, like you mentioned, like, for example, the self publications, people like that find it very difficult to communicate or to cooperate with other members of the Muslim community. How do we differentiate between Salafism as understood as a man hedge, or as a way, if you like, from the set or the group

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or those individuals who ascribe to Salafism? I think it's really important that knowledge plays a really critical role in this because if a person has knowledge will be in a position to realize this is not set a fee. And that over there is not set a fee. But if a person is ignorant is not in a position to discern can't make a distinction, it will just base it upon mere claims, mere claims. So I think it's really critical that people understand as I mentioned before, and we gave this comprehension, this understanding to people for in mentum demand for in among the Muslim I meant to be for the title. Allah said to the prophets on the live segment. If the people believe the way you

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and your companions believe in those people and guiding them, right. So all we have to do is know how and what was the Prophet upon some Allah what he was saying. So we know that the Nevada slam, some of it was senator was a gentleman. He was a gentleman, he had a flop he had that he has suffered. He was truthful. He was a person more than anything else who had an imaginary lab without any ship when they feel like that. So his IP though, his feedback, what do you believe? How do we worship and his mama with the people we look at that, and we say, anyone who's doing that, that said, if he even if he doesn't call himself said, If you, so I'm a person giving dollar law, I go

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into a Masjid I do not believe is legit for me to going in and beating the drum saying said, he said, I don't have to do that. I don't have to do that. And the person doesn't have to even call himself say, a lot didn't reveal that and make that whadjuk upon him. So what we have to do is we have to look at what was the Prophet doing some love while he was sending them what was he upon, and we say, whoever is doing that, then that individual is on a setup fee. And if the person is falling short of the mark, we don't exclude him and take them off of a senate fee. We just say that he's not reaching all of what should have been reached. And we're all falling short of the mark, no doubt

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about that. There is a concentration nowadays on the scholars of Saudi Arabia, and one particular scholar who has become very prominent, especially in terms of the you know, the amount of followers that they've gotten in terms of tech lead, is Jeff Selleck. And it's become almost like a global movement. Now pockets of every Muslim country have some followers who follow this, this shift, almost in a blind following format. What do you have to say about this? And what will you all kind of experiences with Jeff on the phone, as it relates to the brothers who are from the west America in the UK, I don't think any of the brothers who are on the scene right now have known a shift of

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being longer than I am. Because when I was in Medina, I was close to the Sudanese students. And they were very close to a chef IBM. Chef Roby knows me by my name. And for all of these years, he never said to the group of brothers who claim that they have this love for him. To the degree what we find this oluwo One of them was speaking their languages is extremely, extremely extremism. In one lecture, the person would sit there and say shift from being shaken up being shaken a bit 100,000 times and not mention Allah and not meet your Muslim law. So no law you send this little they claim that they love and honor and respect and shout while they do. But none of them know a chef will be

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longer than I've known him. And the chef will be no doubt was and you

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is a scholar of Islam because other scholars have said that. And as a result of that we have to respect him. And he deserves that respect. He's gained that respect. But although that is the case, we have to say the truth, the truth is the truth. And that's what we learned from a set of he especially from the scholars, who we met and share who are being used to be upon that we used to teach people that way that we respect people, but we follow principles. We respect we respect personalities, but we follow principles we don't follow individual people like that. So as it relates to chef Robbie is no doubt a scholar of this religion. But a lot of people have Lulu and

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they go overboard with the shape right up to the point and one of the shapes of these brothers and he was really supportive of shaker B and then Medina right now his name is a chef. I'm the recommended mafia Dean. He has a good relationship with the new Heidi who broke away from chick fil a b&b having problems a chef the right man, we're here Dean is a pushchair and the sooner he was formed and he was asked about how some people have this extremism in ship rugby and he said you know some of these people worship ship rugby

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and what does he mean metaphorically now had some other person made this mistake about someone else when example ship or be said about seeing portal, a low Linda level that Sam put up said that the HD the Islamic societies are societies of a janelia. And as a result of that, some people said that C and put them into fear of the Muslims. I don't believe say a book that was made into fear. I think he was speaking metaphorically that there are things of janelia that are meaning of the Muslim societies I don't think he was making take fear of everyone. But what happens is if you're an enemy to say your total you take his words and give it the worst possible interpretation, but if you were

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afraid of say a photo and you love him honor respect, then you give the best interpretation. So a chef is the right man looking at Dean metaphorically said these brothers worship chef Robbie he didn't mean that they're kofa but had he been there enemy ever say you see guys making took fear that he's making here. But anyway, he was pumped into the reality of many brothers and that is that whatever szimpla B says that's what they're going to say if he says hello tala, he says is haraam Hara. If he says no Teddy, Teddy, he says you're okay. You're okay. He says your major scholar, your major scholar, he says you're ignorant, you're ignorant. And that's what labaton was referring to

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when he said it in the Quran about the unknown keytab it doesn't like bottom row banning my batum in doing that, they take the priest and the amongst as long as along with Ulla hummocky Jackson really important

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when I went to Medina and the doors of a senate he opened for me and I was in Medina shape would be was one of the people who helped me to be on set in fear. But one thing that really alarmed blessed me with was that I was looking towards Jordan to what he meant. And then Benny was singing and then ended badly right but to like, I mean, he has students like a chef idea of how to be a chef much more has been like the chef who sang Alicia and on on cinema lighting. I was hopping Queen Abdullah was signing Ruby Lang. He has many, many students I have seen with my own eyes, how students who are close to lm Bane have refuted his positions and his rulings on it and then banned he was saying that

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I need this authentic or dive, his student will come and say I disagree with the share and give the opposite ruling. I've seen that and that was the download and the teaching of Ellen bang. There was the same teaching of our email. Mmm, how do you find Rama to lighten it? Who said to his stupid his student? I will Yosef Yeah, wait, wait, have you got one too You don't write anything that I say? I say something today. I mean, change it tomorrow. I mean human being. I mean, change my position. Don't blindly follow me like that. So that's what I saw with Elon bang. I will challenge you. I will challenge you and anyone who else is listening. Find me in a situation where these brothers have

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disagreed with shave, rubbing anything. You're not gonna find it. Just as you won't find them retracting any mistakes. You won't find them retracting a mistake they make mistakes we all make mistakes. The Prophet mentioned some Allah when he was sending them. Men summertime nature, love is quiet will be successful as long as

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Talk, you're gonna make mistakes. So you have to be willing to retract your mistakes. That's just what it is to be human. Show me where one of those brothers retracted, with the exception of brother doe in a deep, who says something that was an extreme statement he has said that the owner man, they contact SP to find out who said it in the West. And when that issue was brought to some of the scholars in Saudi Arabia and all of the scholars and not only in Saudi Arabia, but when that statement of his was brought to someone who stylings, he retracted that publicly. That's the only retraction that I know that came from any of those bugs. And I'm not saying don't want to deal with

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them right now. But maybe I hope we get a chance to talk about donut deep a little later on. But my point is a share for them. That's a share for boo famy Lorena marvellous lamb, a chef mukbang Rama to lay it, you will find these students refuting the positions of all of those shapes with edit with Goodman's, but you will find these brothers who follow shape for a bit ever saying the shape was wrong for this and the shape was wrong for that. Which brings me to this other issue, if you don't mind.

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There was a time when the set of the brothers were all together. And we were united on the heart of one man, although there were some differences. But we were all together in the UK and the UK and in America. And they'd be in the mid 90s at the beginning said if he had started taking off, right? We were all together. And I remember the issue that caused me to become public enemy number one to them until this very day. And it had to do with the extremism and shift from being some of the brothers from the UK. We have went over to Saudi Arabia to do a seminar knowledge based seminar. I believe it was called the herbal bucket acidic seminar. Oh, it could have been the online seminar. It was those

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series, I'm pretty sure abubaker

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and the brothers from Brixton and Luton, were having problems with the Boolean of SP trying to take over the Dow and so forth, so on. So I was one of the translators at the seminar. So the brothers from Luton, my brother, cotton Bush, they said they're going to have a meeting with Shaq for being to try to get some understanding as to how to solve this problem amongst ourselves. So I said, Okay, I'll come. I just went to be there. It has nothing to do with me. I wasn't the member of Brixton. I wasn't connected to Luton, and I definitely wasn't with SP so I went as a translator, a chef will be began to lay into the bush and used to Satan was telling us you have to go back and make peace and

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you have to do this you have to do that and you brothers but and he was really giving him a goal for his money.

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And Shepard B was very upset. He was very upset.

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And then he made a statement that I couldn't accept because I know it wasn't true. He said that the shift from joining a family and having a chef to him and he lamb chef mousse and masala to winery and a chef Oussama cool see at that time left alone and

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he said that these people along with modernity are trying to take the attention of the Shabaab away from guerrilla meaning him and they cause him the Chabad to look at them.

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And I said Shane, what are you talking about? He said I'm the right man hirslanden

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Hispanic brother who had extreme views back then very intolerant back then very intolerant and the reason why I'm saying his name is because I have to make it very clear.

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He set up the right man Hernando called me and he told me that the sheriff's supported someone who said Robbie was not happy with their in America our brother Imam Abu massima heartfelt love Tyler I

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I said what do you mean [???] What do you mean? He said how Amanda told me I said no chef. That's not true. Hernando was not practicing Islam anymore even and Hernando was known to be a person who as in his narrations and subtracts to his narration, and the man is not even practicing. Scheffer be active being very upset and very animated. When I told him the reality of her Lando, he calmed down and he said, I don't believe everything that the Chabad Tell me when they called me. One minute he was very upset. And then when I told him the reality of a commando, he calmed down and said, I don't believe it. Everything that they should back Tell me when they call me. So I saw that shift happen.

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He was very upset over here. And in a few minutes it came down over here. So it made me feel this thing is about designers with Abolhassan Model B. That's that was how I feel. So there was a brother I was I was good friends with him at that time. He's one of the leaders of SP His name is Moosa Richardson. And that time he was a balanced product. And that time I used to believe that that brother when he goes back to America is going to be really beneficial because he has good social skills. And he was mature, he was a good person.

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Anyway, he sent me an email and asked me what happened at the matches what happened with the city with the sheriff. I told him, I'll tell you later when we talked, but I saw some things in the shed that don't allow me to take everything that he says. So those brothers who SP put pressure on Moosa Richardson, who was not with them really at that time, but they put pressure on them, they will go on on the witch hunt at that time. So richeson gave them my email

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is I need that said and Magennis. Amanda, when you sit with people listen to Malik. Especially if the canal is sensitive. He gave them the email. I don't blame him because pressure, it burst pipes, you know, the iron pipes that there's too much pressure, the pipe a bus. So this is how it is. But that was how I became public enemy. Number one, they read that I saw your shame from being some things that don't allow me to take everything that he has to say to them. That was disrespect. To be honest, that statement, if you just look at it from the face value, I mean, that's that's that you could say that by any sort of someone with intellect was saying, What did you see? What did you see?

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And then they will judge? Are you being disrespectful? Are you but that's just the point? To answer your question. That's the loo and the extremism that we feel like we find manifested in some of the brothers as it relates to a chef or a beer. And she doesn't deserve that he doesn't deserve that type of. So what you've mentioned is not dissimilar from what Dr. Baker mentioned in some of his interactions with Jehovah metalli, in particular, where he actually mentioned to us in the interviews that there was a particular agreement that took place on a whole arbitration process. And then it was overturned. Like you were saying from one kind of extreme to another, one agreement was

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overturned after someone convinced different IBM affiliate or a certain thing. So the question I will ask you is, if that is the case, and we know this of Chicago, honey, how is the way we should perceive Jehovah How should one have an interaction with scholarship generally, but more specifically about Shepherd funding. As I mentioned, Chevron be as a scholar, no doubt about that, and scholar Heidi, and he is a scholar who is respected for the film that he's in. And in our religion, we make the top beam of the source and Allah says something in the Quran with the Prophet says something. So a lot of them send it via is, we take those two sources and we glorify them, we

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magnify them. So we have the statement of the Prophet something a lot lot easier, it was setting them under a man, one of the two NBA, the scholars are the inheritors of the profits. So if a shareholder B is a scholar or any other scholar, for that matter, we have to raise them up, we have to respect them, but we raise them up to the three that he deserves. There is a hadith in Sahih Muslim in the introduction, and which I had said, Will memnon and your lenses in and nazma and azido. We've been commanded, put people in their proper places. Don't treat your parents as if their children and don't treat the policeman as if he has no authority. Don't treat the husband as if

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nobody treat anybody in accordance to the treatment that they deserve. so shameful to be deserves that. But although that is the case, we just don't go overboard. And we look at the reality I have seen with my own eyes, I heard with my own ears, things I don't know, allow me to take him as the man of a junk with ideal. And that's not from the pursuit of the religion that we love each other on and we hate each other. And I will sign that and vapi I've seen with my own eyes with my own ears, things that say, No way.

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I don't care if an Imam and Benny said that. I don't agree with that. Because I have my own eyes and my own ears and my own experience. And also, I have history on my hand. Since I learned Benny Rockman to live he made that statement. There are a lot of things that have transpired that the man with a giant with ideal wouldn't say this wouldn't judge people.

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In this type of way, and then we had number three, she wouldn't be himself saying, I'm not comfortable with that. I am not the emammal the jock with di D. He said, Yes. He said that that is you know, from the what? phatak. That's from his words. He said, I don't accept that. He said, I am not thinking that. And then fourthly, we have scholars saying that a junk with diabetes doesn't even exist right now. Shut up devices or rogic. And other than them, they were saying this is what we have right now is liba and NEMA. So from what I saw with my own eyes and my own ears, is that incident with a bright man, Amanda, when the chef was saying one thing, one meaning believing in

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that and then when I told him It's not like that her mango he is that Hernando is not practicing the religion, Fernando is known for Moo bada and being you know, a person who adds on to that region's and takes nine races away from the reality and right away, you come down. Another issue is when the other has not only thing was very, very hot, and I had love and respect level hustling moderately and I still have love and respect. So just before you go on to that for the viewers that you could say that he was with my family at one point, no doubt about it. He was he respected him. I think doc didn't have to Baker he alluded to that yesterday because it was mo Hudson and moto v net who sat

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with the brothers and then cold shift would be in fact check Robin and said this is what has been agreed to and share could be wrong and he signed on

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to come back and to break that contract. That's what that's what I experienced. You know, Janet with ideal. He's a human being like everyone else. But as I was mentioning with this person and matter the issue.

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I will have said a lot of the when I went to Shelby's house with some brothers from America and there was some brothers from his students were there. One of those brothers is my brother, uncle, he he Brahim Smith, who has been a teacher there in Saudi Arabia for what 2530 years when I was standing as a teaching, he's still there. He was one of the brothers that was with me in the matrix. And we had left Medina and we went to make Amara, and we met up with Chef Robbie in his house. He let everybody go. But he kept us Danny gave us lunch. Chef Robbie told me why he been allowed to lie. He told me You are a pillar of a senate fear in the West. You must go back and mourn against I

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will Hudson and Martin

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chevra be calling me a pillar of a senate fee in the West, you can be the man of the judgment ideal making me that pillar because I'm not a pillar setting in the West.

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So giving me that statement, if he really believed that if he really believed that's not true. I know that about myself. And can nobody blow smoke in my ear or in my head to make me feel bigger than what if he said that to me, and I don't accept it because it ensures natural

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beauty. The other thing I mentioned was, I get down on the west shear and as releasable hasn't made me this man has nothing to do with my daughter. My mother and my father are far from the kuffar my family members, my community, African American brothers and sisters in my community. Therefore, for those who are Muslims, they need to know about the sooner our children are growing, and we had this issue of our children leaving Islam and not practicing Islam. We have the governments where we come from making policies trying to change normative Islam, pushing homosexual sexuality down the throats of the people. We have some serious deat some serious issues here. I am not going back to get down

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to an amount of him. He said no, you must do it. Because you are a broken from the Tao of Seneca in the West, you must do it. And we went back and forth. I'm not doing that. That's not my dollar trying to impress upon him. This is craziness. I'm not doing something like that. But I saw that he was no some of them. He was insistent persistent. I said okay. I have an issue. Bit of a problem. And that is we just came from and Medina and in and Medina and met up with your chef and my chef. We all wish that he can in that ship. So we have some chefs who have different levels of students. And that shape that I was referring to wasn't Shut up, didn't listen and I back when we were within. And

00:34:53--> 00:34:59

I asked him with the American brothers. What do you have to say about this war that's going on with the shape of

00:35:00--> 00:35:37

Be an Apple has a lot of it. He said you people should leave that and turn to beneficial knowledge, you should leave it and don't worry about these things. It only leads to the hearts getting bad and so forth. So I, I said, so your shift and I'll share a shut up the lessons from our show. This was his advice that we should leave it I should not talk about mobilizing moto v. But you're telling me I should shift Ruby told me when la he a shift of the lesson doesn't read about these issues. And you read he doesn't know about Allison Maher, you as a new name, I will send my you read and you know, Mm hmm.

00:35:38--> 00:35:55

Those are my personal experiences that let me say that a B is not the man of a joke with type deal. Because if I shut up the machine doesn't read and summaries, then Whoa, until Kara, you know, reading.

00:35:56--> 00:36:01

We have to pray janaza on reading it as share goes up.

00:36:02--> 00:36:27

Shut up the muscles are bad, but he doesn't read and I will sign is reading. Then. way harder to MPR. Okay, I'm done. And those are the experiences that I had my own experiences. So is this is it fair to say that there were huge and conflicts between these mushiya liveship.

00:36:29--> 00:36:29

election,

00:36:31--> 00:37:13

which the students were involved in. And as a result of this, we find conflict within the followers of those students. As simple as that, no doubt. It's as simple as that. And what happened was, unfortunately, I believe a lot of people found that they start to shine and burn bright light taking on board and making it their responsibility to push the narrative of chick fil a be those people who support chick fil a big chick will be raised them up. So they a lot of brothers who didn't study. And I don't have anything against people who didn't study at a university because you can be a person who has not stayed like the young brother

00:37:15--> 00:37:18

after a man hasn't up to recommend has set

00:37:20--> 00:38:01

up the right man hasn't hasn't really studied in the university as such. But he has more knowledge than most of the people out there talking in my opinion. So I'm not against people who didn't study doesn't mean that inherently you don't know what you're talking about. But when we see people who have not been trained, and they have not studied at all, we see some of the mistakes and statements of nonsense that they made that and some of what they had to do with the confusion, the folder that's going on. That's not the moon that's blameworthy. That is blameworthy. So what happened was the University of Jamia Islamia, Medina is a prestigious university just like an S, Har, and Egypt.

00:38:01--> 00:38:46

So if someone were able to graduate from there, it's going to give him a level of respect and credibility. And if a person didn't graduate, you may not get that same level of respect. So I found that there were a group of brothers who they didn't accomplish graduating from any university, but I'll do this and I will Khadija whatever, yes, those people. And what happened was, they took on board the battles of shaker and beer. And then they raised the flag of and when I went barah, whatever position check would be held, you have to hold it. And when it didn't hold, you can hold it. And whatever you take this opposite of that within a wage war issue, and that's what happened

00:38:46--> 00:39:26

and shame for a bit raised up many of these people. Which brings me to another very important point about the senate here. When I said that senate fear is a synonym for le slam, it's a ninhydrin power practice slam. And it is LSM animals so far in a setting via Lego Islam. You can't leave anything out from Islam that you are supposed to practice. So you can cherry pick this or that and leave it out. I don't want to wear hijab. I don't want to pray. I don't want to do this. I want to do that. If it's wagging You have to do it. If it's haram you have to leave it alone. The point is, it is not befitting for believing men or believing woman if a lot is messaged the decided thing that I didn't

00:39:26--> 00:39:27

say so in that affair.

00:39:29--> 00:39:43

All right, so we can't leave anything about Ellis lamb out. But let's say that a group of people on set a field where everything that is shameful everything that they think is correct, you can't leave that.

00:39:45--> 00:39:57

That's what they believe. They believe that they embody and Islam will assume that now you have the right to say I don't follow what he says in that and I don't agree with what you're saying in that and I am not leaving anything off from a listener

00:39:59--> 00:39:59

but when a person

00:40:00--> 00:40:45

has a monopoly is understand the setup fee is this and the shape and body set up here and we invite you to send it via a signal. That is his visa that is, and a quote, I have every right to reject what you said what he said, and I don't agree with your point of view of your funding group. So a setup fee again, it is not what for Landsat or Landsat of this group or that group. It is what the prophet SAW A lot of it was sent abroad. And when those containers may lobby peeps at them, what they understood and what they practice. And that's why these are shipped from Saudi Arabia. And I don't believe all ships are from Saudi Arabia. His name is better and rotating better and rotate.

00:40:46--> 00:41:28

The brother from Nelson bass and the bead those brothers brought him here. Now remember the beat and those brothers were translating for him. He has a beautiful clip that's been translated on the internet, where he was saying what sentence it is and what it isn't. And he was saying, I said, if he is Bill whitey Dane, I said if he has been kind to your guests, as well, if he has been clean as somebody is being merciful, I said if he is all of that a sentence, he is refuting people who should be refuted in the way that they shouldn't be refuted, but said that he is not all about refutation. I said if he is not me following your shift, yep. But that's not set up here. Cause a question on

00:41:28--> 00:42:12

this, I was gonna ask the question of, for instance, one of the things that's happening now in the West is that if there's a diet, or a public figures, Chef or a scholar, that is seen sitting with someone who is not seen as a Salafi, say, for example, is a Shiite, or he is a Sufi, or something of that of that nature, then they say that person is now become a motor and innovator where that happens. On the one hand, there's also a contradiction in the fact that we sometimes see gentleman was calling himself some of the major scholars of Saudi Arabia sitting with scholars, who are also sufia, shiai, whatever. So is there a big double standard in the way they apply their principles. It

00:42:13--> 00:43:00

is a major double standard, a major double standard, I actually gave some words of advice to these brothers. And one of the words of advice about six years ago in Ramadan was called the double standards of SP that double standards. And I mentioned in there how Shekinah slandered boo Tamia and his students in little baliem. And other than them, they I showed how it is permissible to cooperate with innovators and non Muslims and evil people and evil doors. When you're doing something under the umbrella of Allah Islam, it only can be accomplished by doing it that way. And the harms don't outweigh the benefits and so forth and so on. And how a Schaffer BIA went to Sudan, and he sat with

00:43:00--> 00:43:47

the Sufi, the turning of a Sufi, he sat with him, and he gave them doubt. And there's nothing wrong with that, how a chef will be in Saudi Arabia sat at a meeting where the leader called some of the venom on some of the shield some of the doctors, some of the Islamic thinkers, he told them, everybody to come together. And we wanted to address this issue about the identity and preserving the identity of our country, our national our nationalism, should be one two, that he had to obey the ruler, but in that meeting where people curse the companions, and that meeting where people from the Shatner and that ruling men that meet with people from Sophie's because they represented all

00:43:47--> 00:44:02

walks of life of Saudi Arabia. So he went and I believe his participation in that was under the umbrella of Islam is not to be blaming Tesla. Yeah. So we shift from a B desert. It's okay. When they do it, it's okay. But

00:44:04--> 00:44:44

some brothers were telling me about you mommy job. And you know, there's only my third time meeting you don't sit with Mohammed II job. Don't sit with mommy, jack, why shouldn't I sit with the brother? Because of this is that? Well, number one, I didn't see that. And number two, I'm going to talk to him about that. And after I talk to you about those things, I am sitting with you. I'm sitting with you, because what I'm trying to do overall, I believe I have a golden objective, what I'm trying to do in terms of making it clear to people, hey, this extremism and shape could be as a problem. It is a problem. Because it is giving people a misunderstanding about what selfie really

00:44:44--> 00:44:47

is. And there's another issue that's really critical, and that is

00:44:48--> 00:44:59

we are acting like what we call in America, the Keystone cops. Back in the day Laurel and Hardy, The Three Stooges way back in the day when they had silent movie

00:45:00--> 00:45:12

There are a group of cops who used to run around looking for the criminal. And they would just move very, very quickly bumping into each other bumping into the walls like clowns. This is how we're behaving.

00:45:13--> 00:45:25

You and I are going to hate each other and be enemies to each other because Cher for a beat doesn't like this person and that person. And based on that you and I are fighting each other over those people.

00:45:27--> 00:45:31

You're going to screen it's just seamless, the sooner I'm telling you it's not the sooner

00:45:32--> 00:46:00

and that's why that's why when we find those people were with those brothers. I think they have about 30 people from the shifts and students who have been thrown off of the midnight violence brothers. What kind of doll is that? What kind of doll was that? One of the things that made me also say Schaeffler be is not I don't accept Hillary in the amount of adjustment ideal is the problem with Mohammed Mohammed bin.

00:46:01--> 00:46:36

Mohammed even though Have you met him? He was singing the same tune and Scheffer be wherever you're gonna be likes he likes he doesn't mind he doesn't mind. And I remember he is about four or five years ago shake rub. You said Mohammed is know how the mockery is from Cuba and Rama. I heard that with monix. And I saw minds. I was shocked and the SP was saying the same thing. Where they get that from the goddamn chef or be that was his ruling. He said that some people were criticizing him. He said he's from the major scholars. That was another thing when I heard I know Muhammad Abdul had him.

00:46:38--> 00:47:05

He has knowledge. And I remember he was in my faculty at the dollar. And we used to love Him because when he will come for his class, which always began after the morning break, like they call the full stop. He will come in the third period every day. He will wear his Bisht, he will have his phone that was happening to a sock, and he will walk in there with a PSA.

00:47:06--> 00:47:17

And michaelia there are a lot of people who are sororities and incline and stuff like that. The allies have just gotten all of the Muslims to the sunette and bring us together on the hub.

00:47:18--> 00:47:55

And the chef used to walk through and I used to look at him I used to say Mashallah, he kind of didn't, he gave this air of I don't care what you think. And I like that. It wasn't arrogant, I thought and I felt it was the strength of the sooner. And one thing that I learned about him is he's not a yes, man, you're not going to push him around. So now that he broke away from shipper A B because he doesn't agree with some people who shared Ruby likes, he doesn't like them. So he gets thrown off of a set of fear. But anyway, as shade we've shared for being said that he was a major scholar. I said, Man, come on, man.

00:47:57--> 00:48:43

I don't accept that. I studied this on everything. I know the difference between the meter scholar and a student of knowledge. We are students of knowledge who are up we got these a student knowledge was strong. A major lunar knowledge is a minus two meter knowledge. But from the keyboard, Emma. Now once they had a problem, now he's ignorant from the Kibar now he's ignorant, he's lazy, he doesn't have books. These are some of the reasons and I say with my own eyes, and my own ears, I don't accept shape could be as being the man of object with the idea of doing our times, nor do I see him as a person who has those brothers stay with them. Hello. We test people by shape for a bit. And

00:48:43--> 00:49:28

then taking the statements of the setup out of context. We don't test people with Chakrabarty What are you talking about? But again, they get this stuff from people who are higher than them. Right because Mohammed Mohammed must have he has said, anyone anyone who goes to Mecca you don't go see shake, Roby it. Something's wrong with your setup here. That's extreme. That is extreme. And this is what we're telling brothers. Come on, you have to get off of that stuff. Relax and balance yourself. You don't know brother in law, make a jam. How many times I have made a public attempt to invite those brothers, come, come, come. Let's come to the table to discuss the situation. Can you imagine?

00:49:29--> 00:49:34

I know that you do data to people who are atheist and so forth and so on.

00:49:35--> 00:49:59

An atheist comes to you and says, Listen, I'm making this with all sincerity. I'm not here to argue with you, man. I really want you to explain to me, how does a live system gonna listen? Would you ever say to him that I have time for you? And I have time for you because I have to eat lunch. I'll have time for you because you're not sincere. I'll have time for you because you're this you're that that'd be your response.

00:50:00--> 00:50:19

So we've sent to those brothers so many times. Come, come, come. I want to hear why I'm a techie. I want to hear that with your real I want to hear it. And if what you're saying is true, I'm gonna make Toba. I'm gonna stop. I'm gonna do the right thing. You know what their response is? We don't sit with people.

00:50:21--> 00:50:22

We don't sit with people

00:50:24--> 00:50:40

is crazy, right? This is a lack of sincerity. I can ask a question of this because do you think that they think that they are more ahead that they for example, those people in SP the main figures, some some more likable, howdy, Joe, someone like Bill Davis or lol

00:50:41--> 00:51:01

they do make them do they? They have made a deal with myself. For example, recently I've come to the field has made the army and his own. Yeah, on his own without any scholars. So the question is, what gives them the confidence to be able to do that by themselves? I think it's a classic case of what's been mentioned in the Koran.

00:51:03--> 00:51:28

Like the statement we allow Todd I mentioned Ziggy and a sheep barn and go home soon. Hi, Maddie. Shake talking to me the actions seem alluring to them then Okay. And then we have that other issue of a war where a person is impressed with himself. So if you we are the centipedes were the cream of the crop and everybody else's off of it. We are the Dynegy

00:51:29--> 00:51:37

and they exist like that. You don't see this level of a man slow down, pump your brakes to slow down.

00:51:39--> 00:51:39

So

00:51:41--> 00:52:18

just to summarize now, I mean, what kind of advice would you give people that are involved in this, that are in this kind of movie had some really tragic stories, for example, when we talk about Dr. Baker about literally families being divided, being broken up, has been husband being divorced my wife first and the care happening? And because the person has been declared and moved to that, we've heard real stories about, you know, communities being broken up not just families, but the whole community being broken up. People seeing Islam as a religion because of this group is in the sectarianism. What advice would you give people

00:52:19--> 00:52:27

that are involved in this that might be benefiting from this, on how to get out of this? Well, first of all, I think is really

00:52:28--> 00:53:14

important that we understand that the scientific community will not have a monopoly on drama and misbehavior. And things that causes the eyes to weep in the hearts to become sad. All sex, all groups have their issues and challenges. But my issue that we're dealing with right now is just this thing where people are talking as if they're the cream of the crop crop and allows gift to the universe, and all this trouble that's being caused by these brothers, so to speak into this narrative. So to answer that question, there are three types of people that I've found over the years who have been able to navigate through this thing properly, three types of people. So a person

00:53:14--> 00:53:55

has to be from two of them, at least, the first person is the one who has been impressed. So the one who tasted the old question, they look and say, Man, this is not right. Whether it's a man or a woman, people have been impressed by that. Right getting ready, huh? What happened with the people reading the ways some of their brothers were dealt with and the way they treated people without giving them the benefit of the doubt. But the sad thing is that the brothers are reading many times, they won't see that that's what they did to other people. The brothers will press by them in reading the way they were dealt with, and they don't like it. They the reading brothers are doing that with

00:53:55--> 00:54:14

other people. So if you ask the random Brother, why is this brother telling you that they don't know it's gonna pair it off the same garbage that they've been hearing? So people have been impressed they know that it's not right. The second two things and this is my advice be from these two people? Is the person who is not a yes, man.

00:54:15--> 00:54:55

If you're not a yes man like and jaggedy your personality is you're not the type of person people want to come and push you off the square. And just because everyone says that you're going to get with the program. You make up your own mind. You're your own man, because they put so much pressure on people like I told you Moosa Richardson. He gave my person email to net which caused my problem with them. And he was my friend. And he subsequently became one of them. And when I talked about his people skills that was back then different issue now, so you can be a yes, man. I've always told my students like must be meek. When they were saying, What do you mean consistency means that I said,

00:54:55--> 00:54:59

Listen, don't let anybody push you and bully you

00:55:00--> 00:55:39

to a position for his people say what you believe. And then let the chips fall where they wait, man, the last person is the one who has knowledge. People who have basic knowledge will know what they're doing is not right. How in the world can you force everybody to take your position or shape for this position? And if you don't take their position, then you're not and the sooner you are to be boycotted, you're to be isolated and ostracized and marginalized. Where does that come from? A person who has knowledge of this religion, they'll take those statements that they use from the setup out of context and say, You guys are using this out of context. We used to test the people

00:55:39--> 00:56:24

with admin and I didn't Medina and so to do that. We don't sit with the people of innovation because the senate didn't sit with people innovation. Are you serious? Are you really serious? We can sit with people of innovation, but there are those. There are rules and regulations. So my advice, get knowledge and be a man, be a man, a person who has who would dare to hack your own position, and to let your position be known. And if you want to stay under the radar so that the drama passes you by I don't believe this is the time of fitting. So if a person doesn't want to get involved in the drama, I respect that don't get involved, but be quiet and don't impress people just because there

00:56:24--> 00:57:02

will precedent like up to loving him a school setting he said that the cooler in life. Don't be a copycat. If the people do right you do right if the people do wrong, you do wrong. He said the fuck thing. But you got to use your brain if the people do right do right with them. The people do wrong. You don't do wrong with it. That's my advice. Just up low head on over some of them. I mean, it's been a pleasure talking to today. My pleasure hacking hummocky jam is in line making barnacle feet happy. And that is another interview I've done with one of the forerunners of the selfie gallery in the United Kingdom. In sha Allah you've benefited from this and salaam aleikum wa rahmatullah you

00:57:02--> 00:57:03

are it has