Is Science the Only Route to Truth

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Okay, so this section will be a discussion a bit of back and forth between our two speakers. I will be moderating to try and keep things on topic. So forgive me for any mistakes I make. Hopefully I don't make any.

And this is a 15 minute session reminder that after the closing remarks after this, there will be q&a. So please do send your q&a questions to that slider.

Yeah, so without further ado, whichever one of you wants to

know.

Hello, john. Yes. So

I think before we before we, before we start, this discussion session is very important to determine something. Do you believe your opinions matter? Or don't they matter? they matter to me?

Okay, so they don't matter to the universe? No, no, because if you if you don't believe your opinions matter, then I'm not going to take them seriously is no point in this discussion becomes absurd from their perspectives. And right. So if the amount of humility opinions matter, then obviously they will matter to us as well. So because we're having a trying to have a discussion today, regarding a very important topic. So you do acknowledge opinions matter, right? Well, in the confines of this room, certainly. Yes. So if we had this discussion outside this room, would you?

I mean, it's a very simple question. I mean, you wouldn't be here today, expressing your views, if you didn't believe your opinions mattered, while I was going to save my

response to your challenge that

why do I do this? Why don't why am I here debating for my closing remarks? Okay. I can take your question. Now. I do it because I want a secular world. You want to say I want a world in which

religious opinions do not control political or educational matters.

Okay, so you just you just said you want a secular world where religious opinions do not have a difference? Exactly. So But to do that, wouldn't you say, if you're going to be if we're going to do this in a in a in a in a academic way, at least when you say you would have to first understand and study all religions or look into them, at least because which you obviously haven't done when it comes to Islam today? Right. So why can't Why have the the outlook already that that's what you want, when you don't even know what Islam has to say, regarding life regarding my life in the universe regarding other fundamental things that are relevant to us as human beings? Well, that's a

good question. It's because without evidence for a god, it doesn't really matter what any of the scriptures of any religion to say. So you might as well say that my Loch Ness Monster is pink, and likes natella. Okay, so let's try to unravel this a bit. So now, I think is important to highlight this, john, you seem to have a underlying premise, which is evidence is what comes from observation, yes. And something that you can observe and study that way. Right. Yes. So in other words, I wasn't I wasn't calling you someone who ascribed to scientism, if you if you and I'm sure everyone who acknowledges I asked you to scribe to something similar to scientism? I don't want to label you.

That's why I said, right. It's just to correct you on that. Right. But the point being, do you acknowledge or is your view your outlook that science is the only way to truth? Yes. Okay. Good. So, do you not see the issues with that outlook? Or the problems with Outlook? Well, you you can try explaining. Okay, so Okay, so let me give you an example.

Have you been Have you been to India?

Have you been to India? No, I haven't you haven't been to India? I'd love to. Okay. Do you believe India exists? Yes. Okay. So you haven't been there? You haven't observed it yet. You believe it exists? The evidence is fairly sentencing. Okay, so what so what do you mean by the evidence is very convincing. I've seen photographs taken from space. Brilliant. Okay. What else?

Do we need more? Okay. So okay, fine. I know, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that you can give us a bit more slack and what I know of people who have come from India, who have visited a friend of mine is there now. Okay, and I'm on messenger and Facebook. Okay with him. He's currently where is he currently

Calcutta.

So here's the problem, john, you haven't observed India yourself, yet you believe it exists based on photographs and people that have been there. Now, how do you know those photographs or photographs are actually of India? And that, you know, just being told there of India?

Well,

I think that

you'd have to, you're on a loser there, because you're, you're having to try to rubbish. All of the photographs taken from space by all of the space craft, all of them orbiting satellites. And all of the space men that have been in Have you seen Okay, have you seen yourself satellites that are up there right now?

Yes, you can observe the satellite. Have you observed them yourself through a telescope? I have? Yes, you have. Okay. So here's the thing. What I'm saying regarding India, is you haven't observed it yourself. So what I'm saying essentially, is your belief in the exists is based on something called testimony. Right? It's called in philosophy. This is known as authentic invalid testimony. Right? Which is, by the way, john, an integral part of the scientific method. Well, yes, something you deny in your book itself. But the,

the testament can itself be tested. I mean, with the right equipment, I can go and investigate. Sure. Myself, that's a potential job. But right now, you haven't done that yet. You believe in the exists, right. So your belief is not based upon what you can do. As far as observing it. It's based on something else. So what I'm trying to highlight to you, john, is that, are you willing to acknowledge that there are other routes to knowledge other than just science, which are demonstrating right now, by highlighting that you believe in the exist, although you haven't observed that yourself? pictures can be pictures or testimonial? Someone is telling you those

pictures of India, you're going by the testimony of people. Let me give you another example, which may be closer to home, which may help you a bit better, if you don't mind. Right? Do you believe evolution? The Darwinian mechanism is true?

Yes, okay. Listen, as an egg science teacher, I don't use terms like I believe. I use terms like the evidence is, shows the evidence show shows that that evolution is a fact. So you believe the Darwinian mechanism particularly well, now? Are you going to pin me down to a man who died 150 years ago? Or are you going to allow me to update with what we've just given us? Your give us your definition?

How you want to call you and call it evolution, just evolution in general? At its basic level, all evolution means is change. And we can observe change happening yesterday. Yep. And we can see evidence, which, for which have a progression of things that happened in the past? Yep, in the fossil record, and so on. And so the best explanation is that change happened in the past two. Okay, good. So So, so this will this good. You're saying that so you so what I'm asking you specifically, is Do you believe the theory of evolution is true?

Yes. Okay. So in you saying Yes. Have you done all of the observations, which led to that conclusion? This is the this is the were you there? Okay. Well, that's, that's coming from your own perspective, because you said evidence is something which is observable. It's something that's repeatable, and something that's shareable. Yes. Anything and you've said also in your book and your videos that anything that comes from the human mind can be trusted? Because it's tainted? Yes. Your words? Yes. Right. So the theory that you believe in, is coming from the mind of a scientist, no, no theory that I subscribe to, is that

change can be observed and potentially I can go and observe change. You know, I think, have you seen the big petri dish experiment? Now have a fantastic experiment? They made a pet in order petri dishes? Yeah. It's a it's a culture container, which you put a nutrient jelly in, and then you can grow bacteria. Okay. They made a great big one meter long, and they've put two different

bacteria. No, they put a bacterium, same culture of bacteria in each end. And in between them, they've put increasing strengths of antibiotic. Okay. 10% 20% 100%. And

initially, the bacteria spread in the area where there's no antibiotic. There's video of this, because it speeded up. Yeah, we use organisms that have a short lifetime, because we can't observe. Yeah, massive changes. We don't live long enough. Okay, so bacteria are perfect. They reproduce every 20 minutes. Okay. So

initially, they stay confined. Yep. In the area where there is

No antibiotic, but a few of them, you take, and they can break out and pass into the area where the antibiotic is 10%. Okay, more time goes by, and an even smaller number. And they pass into the 20%. So on and so forth. You get the picture. Eventually they can colonize the 100%. Strength shoe. That's, that's what that's an observation change being observed. Yes, repeatedly show and share ugly. Yes, you can watch it for today. So let's make a distinction here. There is a difference between observations of science and theories of science, right? Yes. So what I'm trying to highlight to you is that there are other routes to knowledge which are involved even within the scientific

method itself, which you have to rely upon for you to believe the conclusions of science well, which you reject By the way, so I want to know which way is it? Do you acknowledge that there are other routes of knowledge such as testimony? Well, testimonial knowledge? Or do you wait for them to the sciences, the only way to truth where you are trying to put words into my mouth? I'm asking you the question, okay. is trying to make me You see, the trouble is the word belief has two meanings. It can mean merely accepting something which we know to be true. Like, you know, if I jump off a roof of Hurry, probably fall, nobody would contest that. So to all intents and purposes, it does not need

actively believing. We can observe believing now in

what do they call him? Give me a word. The

last

big machine, you put a person in and you watch his brain, you put you give him radioactive material. Thank you.

Yeah.

Yeah, medicals. Come on, tell me the name.

Thank you, Mr. I've been in one MRI scanner. And the functional MRI scanner is the one where you can put in a decaying substance into the radioactivity, decaying harmless into the bloodstream, and watch where it congregates. So if you give somebody in an MRI scanner, pictures of things that need believing and pictures of things which are known, you can see how actively thinking he is. and things that need believing.

attract a lot of this activity, things like my horse will win the race. You need to actively believe that. But things like yesterday, this horse won the race. That's a foregone conclusion. We know that is now a fact you don't need to believe that he returned. So I'm sure trying to explain was really interesting. The science lessons I'm sure is we've got a lot to learn from you.

Because you asked me about where I need to use belief in science. No, I'm asking a very simple question. Do you acknowledge that there are other routes to knowledge which are integral to the scientific method itself, such as testimony? Or don't you acknowledge that? are you just saying, just purely because according to your book, and you may want to change your opinion that observations repeatable and shareable full stop? According to that type of definition? You're pigeonholing yourself, in many ways, because you in a way, you're denying the scientific enterprise, you're denying science itself? Right? Well, is because so just tell me this? Should you? Do you

believe in the theories of science?

The theories of science do not need believing? I'm not saying the absolute? I'm just asking. So I wouldn't claim they were absolute, I claim that they are the best explanation currently. And you, you acknowledge that they are also was incorporated in the process of getting to the theory, there are other elements, such as testimony reasoning, which argumentation we lead.

Every theory makes predictions. Yeah. And at that stage, you can believe the prediction or not, we would call it a hypothesis. And there will be rival hypotheses, just like their arrival runners in a horse race. And you can choose your favorite. Okay, and that is where a belief is applied in science. So you acknowledge that at the frontiers, where we don't know. Okay, so, in a simple way, we've got one minute and about two minutes left. Do you acknowledge testimony as a valid route to knowledge?

It's a simple question. If you acknowledge tests to me, which can be tested. I acknowledge if you were to tell me that.

I can see a particular satellite going past this moment, then I know that if I get the right equipment, I can check out your test show but there's a potential john.

test me otherwise you are

testimony is very suspect you have I don't think you understand my point right now because I could testify to you that I have fairies at the bottom of my gun. And unless you go there and check for yourself, you should doubt me. Sure, but I'm not looking into the epistemology of things. I'm asking you a very simple question. Do you consider testimony as a fundamental route to knowledge, something that science is also dependent upon?

Only if it can be checked.

But that doesn't that is a testimony that you don't you don't take testimony as a route to knowledge based on the fact that it can be tested. That is, that is the whole point of science is to challenge claims. Yeah, testimony is a claim. Okay. So it must be challenging in order to be scientific. Okay, so let me ask you this way. Do you acknowledge that science in science and we keep making this as simple as possible? When you're engaged in science, a scientist is doing the science. They take observations. Bertrand Russell, for example, highlighted that you as a scientist you take observations and you reason upon the observation that is time.

One more time

monokuma muramatsu libre capsule guys, make sure that you try these supplements out there. Very, very good, very healthy, natural. And you can check the link in the description box. That is nature's blend black seed oil, and they have other things as well. Oh

wait, it's a Boy. Boy Boy.