Is Dr. Zakir Naik Right About Embryology in the Quran
Channel: Mohammed Hijab
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Welcome to a very, very important episode where I'm joined by two very, very important people. On my right is Dr. Ayman, how are you doing? You're good. You've been in one of my videos while I was exposed before. Yeah, yes. fun video, man. It was a fun video. Now again, down to the academic nitty gritty. Yeah. Okay. And obviously, the one and only
was a fire hydrant, okay.
Okay. And if you don't know these guys, to my right and left, they've undertook much a lot of very high research. And what we try and do for you guys, obviously is try and get people who've done the research to come in and share the research with you.
Why I brought Dr. Ayman today is because we are going to talk about a very important topic, which is the topic of embryology and comparing it with the current discourse and scientific discourse. Dr. melburnians is this kind of area of speciality or expertise? Because that's what he studied kind of in university, isn't it? a longer a longer lecture by and on my left side, obviously, the theological side
is about Sophia, who's done the bath and stuff like that. Graduated from Medina University, and he's got the tools and, and the know how to be able to extrapolate from the Islamic texts. So we've we're joined by two individuals who are well qualified to proceed. I just want to make a point Before we continue, because I think there is a feeling of people feeling that we are we have anything against the doctor, as I can, like,
we don't have absolutely anything. In fact, we actually,
in many different ways, we have a great respect for us.
Yeah, absolutely nothing but but, you know, respect that on top there. We respect him? Yes, he's done a lot of work for a lot of downward handling. But of course, the issue is, is the issue that kulanu everyone is taken from and rejected upon a mammogram, Allah,
Allah. And he pointed to look the grave of some awesome monks it for him. Yeah, so the issue is not an issue of personalities, the issue is an issue of the health and what we believe to be the truth. And if you look over the discourse, the Islamic discourse over our, you know, quite handily, dignified heritage, you find this amongst everyone. Exactly, exactly. It doesn't need to sing from the status of a person, of course, no, yeah. And you know, I, we have,
you know, acquaintances who are loosely connected to the IRF, loosely connected to pstv. inshallah, so, if any, I'll make this very public, if anyone comes forward to us and sends an email says, Look, I've got the doctors I can like himself comes forward and says, We don't like using our name or our pictures. And we will change the marketing completely so that the videos don't contain his name. And we only use his name because people need to be familiar with the kind of academic discourse we put forward is, in fact, a review of his work. But it's not to say that this is refutation of his work or him at all. We're not trying to necessarily do that. He was a person. We love him. In fact, he's
done such great work for the oma, what we're doing is like a drop in the ocean compared to what he's done. Let's be frank, I mean, he's one of the most influential figures no doubt in the group watching his lectures and his videos. Yeah, same. Same here. No doubt. Well, I say me when I was younger, I grew up watching his stuff as well and stuff. But no doubt, as you say that as the hubby said to him, to me, the Huck has been more beloved to us than then, you know, he said, the hack is more beloved to us than even say me. So the point is, and he was a student, so if we consider ourselves students or doctors, okay, then obviously, we love and respect him so highly, but the hack
is more beloved to us than than him himself, or is there anyone else? Now to move forward?
Let's start with the stages of embryonic development as per the Quranic discourse, okay.
talks about different stages of embryonic development. There has been an attempt from both parties, by people that are trying to promote Islam as to make it scientific friendly or science friendly. And those who are trying to say is contradictory to science to kind of contrive either scientific miracles or scientific errors into the current discourse. Before we continue. Don't even give us four. I know you've had this conversation before affair. And we've discussed about, you know, a lot of what you're about to tell us has terminological jargon, try and reduce the terminological jargon so as to tell us exactly what happens from what we know today of science. It's not to say it's going
to be set in stone. It's not to say it's perfect knowledge. It's not to say there's no published induction, but from your studies. What have you come? What do we know about the fertilization process? For example,
In terms of what happens right at the beginning
of what we call conception, obviously what happens first is that the semen
The semen is what contains the sperm, it's made up of sperm plus a lot of other things which contain the nutrients for the sperm and allow it to survive the semen exits and it moves along.
And basically, the sperm within the semen meets with the egg. One sperm fertilizes one egg, and there's many sperm cells. And once that happens, you start to have state different stages of embryonic development which occur. And once that occurs, you get sort of a continuum of different stages, which are based upon sort of three what we call germ layers, and then mesoderm and ectoderm, which develop into the various tissues of the body bones, muscles, the various organs, blood, etc. So that's it in a nutshell. And then after that, it's it gets a lot more complicated as more complex process started to start to happen. hormones are released which signal for different timings of
different body part development. So that's in a nutshell, that's how it really goes. In terms of for the layman audience?
Is there a difference I mean, between semen and sperm and what is that difference if there is one difference between between semen and sperm is that the semen is what contains the sperm, the sperm is actually the cell which is involved in the fertilization of the egg.
But the the semen is the medium within which the sperm moves. And it's also what contains the nutrients for the sperm. If you imagine the sperm is there as a cell, in order for the cell to survive, it needs nutrients and the semen contains some of what allows for the system to survive, and also move around as well. Okay, now, that's thank you for accepting I will come back to you because we will need your expertise for more time. What we're going to do now is talk about the stages of embryonic development as per the current discourse. So let's start with what the Quran talks about. And obviously, there are 282 sets of a s which can be found in sorts and hadj as
minimum, which I'm probably most explicit in the embryonic development
The first thing that is mentioned in in either of those sorters is not for sometimes what I was mentioned before, which is like soil or or clean is sometimes mentioned whatever. But generally speaking in terms of an embryonic discourse, the first thing that is mentioned is not fun. So, what is not fun? Okay. Give us some information about that.
Give us from the FCT perspective from the local perspective, what we know about
him de la salatu salam ala rasulillah plave not what generally means stated in the tafsir have to be among fellow Solomon and Berkeley and others that are a first to many first to to split
and it was called northford due to his killer due to its being quite small smaller number some of them say polynomial, it's something quite small from from water and it could also refer to something quite large as well at the same time. So, generally the gist of it is that refers to something that is small, okay, not something that is small, and you have many examples of this in the Arabic language. Another thing that we find Of course, nofas itself is mentioned in Rafi 12 is not just restricted as and had been well known, but other already told by it. We find also another idea that talks about something called Soleil Okay, which we spoke about before Solange is in sort of sort of
maamoun Now, what does Solana refer to as certainly translated as
an extract extract something that has extraction, and this is correct, because in Arabic language generally about got him outside he mentioned his the sheer
fact he quotes to ignore bus from the Sahaba
and he says that it means philosopher, it means something that is pure, pure water, but not only that was solid and Arabic language also means something that emerges and is secreted. Okay, and you find evidence from this in the Arabic language in pre Islamic poetry as well in Islamic proof for non Islamic progress before Islam as well such as a facility Thea Timothy Arabic attends to D
which refers to clothes being taken off slowly, okay. And you find also shared poetry from hesson urban fabric and others. So, this is the meaning Some have said that So, Lola sorry just just some have said that so that means
it basically means a small part of a whole
we have created the human beings from Salalah that means the best part of a whole, the one sperm which fertilizes
the millions of sperm, the Quran refers to Allah, best part of the whole there's any basis for that in the Quran.
Arabic language if you go to the sun
and you go to Costa Rica and other quite famous classical Arabic language dictionaries lexicons, you will not find this mean and no to my knowledge of any of them often refer to something
as meaningless as to as
with the one that's probably most explicit is what sort of research that says you know so Magellan that's the homie met him in
Miami. Yeah. So hey, the is talking about is nestled his project his progeny. So hey, how do we how do we interpret this a, it would be that an algo Allah knows best that Salalah hare is referring to sperm mean. Now, of course, we said it means something that being emitted, but to say that refers to something just more small from the grid to hold, and sometimes general found the language, but you can say and some of them for pseudo have mentioned that Salalah can also be not fun. It can also be referring back to NACA, which is spent, okay. And sometimes sperm refers to a small part of a greater whole, we know that this meaning is found in the in the Arabic language, so the two could be
used interchangeably as well. Okay. So hey, we've gone through one important thing.
Yes, of course, of course.
Would you see that we could say definitely, that they're not fair could mean spam? Or is it more of a thing where we say it fits is the most appropriate thing, and this adds to the timeless nature of the Quran? And the miracle of it? Where's the where the Arabs would have understood it as like, you know, you came from something insignificant, and look what you are now. And we can interpret it that way. And also, we can interpret it in the way that it can be spent? Would that be would that be an appropriate Tafseer? Or is that something that would have
been Muslim? Is it something that has heard this is something that's quite modern scientific terminologies? So of course, if you look at the Arab and how they understood they would not, they would refer to it as the water the fluid of the male field. Okay, it's only our modern scientifically that we have now added a name for this, but before that, this was not necessarily given a name, per se. So of course, panel life, it's all times and all ages.
Would you say? The you mentioned that obviously, the Tom's dogs, they would have said that the sperm is matte metal, metal, Roger, but here the Quran is actually more specific, it's saying not forgetting min min or Salalah min. So is saying is
the part of something else whereas you said you mentioned that the Arabs would send metal rogered, which is the whole whereas the Quran is actually being more specific, sing a small part with knotfest being a small part of the whole? Is that something significant? Or is that?
How would you How would you view them?
Because of course, Allah Allah, Allah here is saying that yes, Salah also you can say no. And now Raja, so here we have something greater, something more specific from the but I think that then or possibly with the medical knowledge at the time, would they have interpreted this this possible, but we don't have any sources that will tell us this level? So we can't definitively negate nor can we definitively. Okay, that sounds very balanced before I move on. swiftly because this is where it gets quite juicy. Actually, this is probably one of the biggest things that has been mentioned here. We talked about not far we sideline, that kind of attitude that the idea of Solana, but here, I
think what the discourse really goes round is the word Allah. So what does the word Allah actually mean?
When you look in the Arabic language means literally something to hang on to hang on to something. And this is known and in terms of the Arab, pre Islamic, so this is not a super imposition. Absolutely. No, it is something that was used in pre Islamic poetry is something that is in Proverbs
alacarte imro case these are famous, very famous, perhaps the most well known pre Islamic poetry that exists and this word is mentioned to us to go hand literally in the language from the Kaaba, because of their beauty. Because of their, you know, deep meanings. Yeah, so this is something that if it's something that's hanging, yeah, this is what I look. I mean, it's not we're not trying to superimpose anything by saying Absolutely not. Absolutely not. Allegedly elementary sign up and five different yet in the Quran. As for the meaning of it, you don't have different some any somewhat, but generally, it means that it's it's blood that is jammy that is quite solidified. Yeah, yeah,
cross of blood that's generally translated us and I don't see a problem with this translation. Okay. Okay. So, now the point is this.
A lot of people say that, okay, when when I look at FCS is pick out some dominoes, whatever, as a clot of blood or whatever. But the way I look at is it more comprehensive than that? Because if I wanted to say it was dumb, he could have just said that he could have just said that because then he could have there are words in Arabic for Qatar, or kitanomine diamond or whatever. He could have just used that. So is there a significance of using the word
What do you think? Well, I think was discussing with a chef before, I think is at a double point rather than saying, it can definitely mean definitely means this. So it's sort of multi modal. It's got multiple meanings that were appropriate at the time of the Arabs and can be appropriate up until now. So like you mentioned, alpha can be like a blood clot is no problem saying that an embryo Look, it looks like a maybe like a blood clot of blood. Allah means it hangs as well. The embryo is something which obviously at that stage is clinging to the to the wall of the womb. So it's hanging in that stage is an Allah cosmos. It's like a leech as well. Obviously, the the embryo at that stage
is leeching off the off the mother's resources as well. Sometimes it's been translated like that as well. So
I think I've had serious thing found in the, in the margin.
Hello. So sorry, continue by so the point is that it's, it's got multiple layers, multiple levels of meaning, which basically, we can say the Quran has timeless nature in that sense. Yeah, I would I would agree with this. I mean, I think it's really interesting because we were talking before about the word jenine. In Arabic, which is, it's mentioned in sort of an idiom, isn't it?
includes originates with Hebrews wanting Omaha to come and this agenda for the most part of his journey. Like, there is a word in Arabic for foetus. Just starting to get better. Yes, it is referred to two liters. In the Arabic language. Of course, it's referred to as Legion Arabic, English smallrig. refers
to this level. Yeah, like it was something else.
And the point being here is that if Allah subhanaw taala, just wanted to say that you are created from a fetus. There's a word for that in Arabic, and the Arabs knew it. If you wanted to say that you are created from blood. There's a word from that in Arabic. But the word that he did choose Allah Khan is, in fact, multi layered, because it's not the conventional word the Arabs would use to describe a fetus, it wasn't, which is, you could say anomalous from the pre Islamic poetry, because people wouldn't speak in that way. And that's the first thing. Existing kind of theories. Yeah, like how people wouldn't speak like that. Yes.
So this is where actually, because of it, I will come to this afterwards, a lot of people say, Well, this must have been copied. And this is what I feel like there is a case I mean, a lot of people the orientalist was will see, this probably is the most significant of all of the things that have been mentioned, because it has the most academic weight behind it in terms of, well, that wasn't used this before. It is quite interesting that is talking about something like this, it has got those meanings, which do relate to 21st century phenomena and is above the above and beyond the age of the Arabs seventh century discourse. So there's lots of those questions being asked Now, why is it like
that? You know,
but having said that,
it's not it's, I would, I would, I think we'd all agree that it's not fair to say that, okay, this is scientific miracle, per se, I will say that it's very interesting. These questions are incredibly interesting. And thus, that's why I was saying about, we can't say like, definitely, it means this, it would be more of a temporal point, if anything.
So just like pondering, it would be more of a pondering point, contemplation point, rather than saying, it definitely means this, I think you'll run into problems if you try and say it means this
approach to these is that we cannot definitively affirm that our last panel to element this in the Quran, even if science may indicate this and of course discussed before with the video, you did the support and others that, you know, the whole issue of does scientific certainties exist or not, and scientific theory and paradigm shifts, etc, etc. But we can say it is possible if the Arabic language allows us to, and you know, the context of the rest allows us to interpret this then it's possible because it did mean this but we can't definitively say that he meant this was really, really interesting is that in the biblical discourse, you don't find this. Yeah, and the biblical
discourse in the book of Job is talking about, you know, is talking about how the formation of man is completely from a 21st century perspective. And once again, we're not saying that's the battle underway, is quite primitive, it's like you know, is coded like curdled cheese and this kind of things like human beings made from like a cheese lacks
substance or kind of thing. This kind of thing in the book of Job and others is nowhere near the correlated to science as much as the Quran is in the 21st century. Now, that's not to say that science is true, and it's the barometer but it's just the reality. So if I once again, this goes to the kind of point that we were making in the beginning, if you do take science as somewhat of a, as a good measure of truth, then the Quran will be the most closely correlated to science and this is one of the examples like a really ample example of that.
Okay, so moving on. We talked about Allah casaba
Why Allah? Allah He mentioned in the Quran roughly three times he mentioned the roughly three times and many of them have a zero and disclose of success date that model is or a first to Makkah need a small amount of flesh that is similar to that which is true. Okay, seems that which is true. It's interesting because Allah in the Quran says, Mala Mala Monica. Now, here is where the difference of opinion amongst the scholars of the shift happened. What does this mean is commonly translated as formed and unformed. Okay.
He says, it refers to any cause that goes this goes back to Mr route from the companions, that is a characteristic of the spin formed an unformed. A second opinion that refers refers to complete an incomplete and this is a view heard were quoted from the taburiente followers. Others have said that it means fashioned, formed an unformed meaning about it. This was held by Mujahid and others. And poverty actually gives preference to this view, interestingly enough, but that really sums up the whole context first opinion, that's what was really interesting about that is that some orientalists, try and claim that the Quranic discourse is borrowed from earlier, like Hellenistic
classical Greek theologians of philosophy and stuff like that, and scientific theory. And if you look up probably the biggest heavyweight of the Hellenistic period, which is Aristotle,
and his theories on
human development, he first and foremost believed that menstruation and so semen meet and create this kind of wasn't only held by him. Yes.
And if you want to Galen has his own treatise that he wrote in 210. He's I think, 210 ad. I don't think he believed the ministration part. Okay. Yeah, I don't think he'd believe in that. But he did have a Galen is another person that which we'll come to in a second. He came before Aristotle. Yeah. But and Hellenistic period. Yeah. So this kind of theory of what is interesting about what Aristotle believed in, is that he believed that the human being doesn't is not formed and unformed. And that you know, the way that obviously this we can, we can probably safely say this is against the scientific discourses, 21st century, and observable reality that the baby is always one kind of
shape, and then just gets bigger and bigger. Not house.
Yeah, yeah, I can. According to the 21st century, knowledge of medicine does not have not how it works, we can say that it's really, really interesting how we can strike someone that's big and heavy. As Aristotle off, we just want statement just like that, you know, no, seriously, but there's not something you can find from the Quranic perspective that you can just strike. So that's completely wrong like that. And this shows you I'm not trying to say that Islam or the Quran has to be in complete compliance with science. But what we are saying is that, look how close is so Allah is making it accessible for everyone? You know,
you could say that it's like strange for a book from that time period, to have these kind of statements. What should be written in this kind of way? Yes, we can say that. Can we? Can we say that? Yeah, I believe I agree. President. I would say that, I really would say that because
we're going back against I think that the people that say that, they say, Hellenistic philosophers, but they also mentioned Galen, and we'll come to this because actually exactly like, has an incredible response to this, which we're gonna try to love react to. But he, but he does kind of dismiss that in a really excellent way. To be fair to him. Absolutely. Excellent.
I think is one of the best actually attack at this point. Yeah, he tackled this really well. And his debate with with William Campbell, with what I think was when I was when I was younger watching that they really, it was probably the, I've never seen anybody get humiliated like that this guy, he really seriously he, he at one point he came up after exactly and like and he said, well, and this is exactly what he said.
Dr. Zakir Naik has made some really
some really hard questions. And I don't have any answers for those questions. And he ever thought clapping.
Well, Dr. Knight has brought up some real problems.
And there are so these problems that he has said, and I don't deny them, and I don't have good answers for them. But I will tell about
the point being is that when you try and and once again, it does indicate that the Bible when is compared to the Quran, in light of the 21st century is this course and if this course it can't be compared, it cannot be compatible. Right? So once again, it's not accessible for the 21st century audience from a scientifically anyways moving on. So we talked about Allah, we talked about motiva
also we talked about not far, motiva and aliqua.
Yeah. Then after that comes through them or the state of the bones right. And then after that, throw them off the bones of flesh and the inception of the road.
Excellent, brilliant, perfect. Now obviously some of the one of the orientalist arguments is that listen, we know that from scientific discourse 21st century that actually it's not necessarily that the bones come before them the muscle, okay? Is this kind of
around? How does it all happened? How does it work? First of all, so the bone and the muscle actually they develop from one of the three Germany's call them gentlelase, which is called Misa them. So it's one of the embryonic sort of early stage tissues, which later develops into certain body parts. So this certain gem lamesa then develops into the musculoskeletal system. So the muscles and the bones
in terms of what we know nowadays, in terms of our medical knowledge, we can't necessarily say that the bones will get formed. And then then the muscles in the flesh come after it's sort of like a continuum they happen in an integrated way. Sort of together with each other the bones, there may be a bit of bone, maybe a bit of flesh, some some more similar to that rather than one happens and then the other one happens will will in one go after one after the other. Yeah, so on the face of it, this would seem like this is a fly in the face of the Quranic discourse because it says tomoka Sona live, I'm a llama, we have
we have closed the bones with flesh. But when we start looking and this is really important now for the Quran, learners that are watching this stuff, when you start looking at the Quran, and then comparing it with the Sunnah, or getting the Tafseer of the Sunnah to understand the Quran is a methodology or facility you have
to facility to be, you know, the son now interprets the Quran and explains it to me. And I mentioned Exactly, so if we do that, we start to realize that there actually I had this, that, that gives us more information about the embryonic developments, I actually get us days, the two or three headings we want to mention. There's obviously the eponymous Hadith in Sahih Bukhari, which is also known for Hadith and whatnot. But that's also caviar, you can say that, that you could put that in line with or it should be used in conjunction with another Hadith. I think what it is that these
criminals are included in this compilation is from the eighth of April, Miss Rudra de la and now it goes through the headings through there are a number of generations. Okay, there's a number of nations that have administered it isn't simply one variation of that. Right, right. Okay. So for example, if you look at the Hadith again,
and then the Muslim Yeah, so the route that is agreed upon, as mentioned, both the Hebrew at the completion of a Muslim, and generally the most famous left of the most famous wording is that which is inside al Bukhari, which says
that the creation of one is joined together in the, in the womb of his mother 40 days as an alpha sperm. And then it becomes as it's translated, and then it becomes alpha, which we just discussed the meaning of just like it and then mother, etc, etc. Now, it's interesting to note that inside a Muslim, in this particular Hadith, another narration is mentioned. And in fact, they say that this narration is stronger than the other. And that explains it. Because in this particular region, the same Hadith says Thumma, yakun.
Allah pattern, feed olika, mithila, Derek,
then it becomes a either
in within the same 40 days as the sperm, and likewise, the mother that is both. So basically, all of these things are happening within the 14 days. And it's interesting to know that there's another variation in Sahih, Muslim as well, that from the hadith of Deva,
and it refers to 42 days, that after 42 days, all of the creation kind of happens, the creation of the hit, hearing, etc, fashioning of the bones, and clothing of the flesh, it will happen simultaneously. Right? And then something about male or female, male or female, yes, then it's decided whether or not as male or female, in, in addition to when the angel is sent, and the soul is breathed in. This is really, really interesting, because here, obviously, this has implications with fifth and we know that as a humbler. madhhab. Abortion is not allowed before 40 days like it, yeah. Before, before, 30 days, 30 days, right in the middle. So they probably some of the analysts, and
it's completely not allowed, regardless, right, regardless of the time scale. Yeah. So having said that, this is definitely a scholarly opinion. Some people some of the orientalist say well, actually, this whole thing is not correct, because the tape or the chronology that's presenting the Quran, as we discussed, from a scientific perspective, you know, you've got the bones first and then it says me afterwards. You've got the article first, then you've got the model afterwards, but we know that the article continues because it continues to cling throughout. And what you're saying actually, is that it doesn't necessarily mean that based on the second hand is because it's all
happening at the same time. So even the Arabic language perspective we know that in the Quran is mentioned thumb.
And the word thumb is used quite often refer to sort of touch and sort of, you know, describing
embryonic stages atheroma generally means that something happens after something else meaning there's a slight delay and then something else happened. So for example, if I say so and so entered the room Thoma and then another person entered it, it means that there was a slight time delay between the first person enter it from the second person. But Thelma could also mean and this is a valid, valid or invalid language and valid interpretation of DOMA as found amongst the other the Arabians that could mean well, it can mean it can mean well, meaning something that happens without a time didn't mean it happens at the same time. And I've seen that in Ross's discussion of some some
as a thing. Yes. In his a in his as on, I think I think so. But you can double check where he talks about
from Mr. elesa. So, so awesome. All right. I think he is he says Toma could mean like and but moving to you.
Allah subhanaw taala revealed the book of Moosa after the revelation to Mohammed Salah longjia. So here's a common example where they say someone means well, excellent. Moving to you, is there any significance from what you've studied of 42 days or anything like that, because here's the two days that were mentioned 40 days,
which is the 40 days that the the process takes place, and the soul is breathed and whatnot, and 42 days more specifically, something to do with the male or female, anything that you've studied. So there is some research to suggest that around seven weeks, 42 days, there's a hormone that's released, which guides or helps to guide whether the fetus will become a male or a female. So it's strange that the prophets I said, I mentioned 42 days, and this woman is also released that 40 days, this is strange. So this whole thing that the point of the, because we said before, like go into they say that the bonds came before the lamb. It doesn't necessitate that, because actually, it
could be happening all at the same time, just like, like nothing in Islamic discourse to deny that. Yeah, especially if we see what we mentioned before that the sudden interprets the Quran. So therefore, we know that in the Sunnah, and how do you have this hadith Sahih? Muslim? So have you thought the lawsuit, it happens at the same time within the 40 days, the Hadeeth of data within 42 days? So therefore, we can say that I had in question here, it could all be happening within 40 days, and there's nothing to deny this. Okay. And then, of course, the Arabic language, and it's according to what we have from the symbolism. You know, one thing we've come to realize here, to be
frank, there's a couple of other things that reference kind of embryonic development in the Quran, Oba dolomiten, flf. And sources oma.
Now you have some of them for Sunni effect, I have not come across somewhere, there's also three days of darkness, three days of darkness. Now, I've not seen a difference of opinion. That negates what I'm about to say, which is that they generally refer to it as the first darkness being the darkness of the womb of the uterus. The second darkness mean the darkness of the placenta, and the third doctors mean the darkness of the stomach. Okay, so it's talking about physical, physical, physical darkness. Okay, that's quite interesting as well.
Now, the thing is the vast majority, that's not to say that there might not be some who have said that in the first time,
probably, I would say, of all the things that we've covered in terms of, like naturalistic phenomena described per the current discourse. This probably, I don't know, I mean, I want your opinions on this as well. But for me, if there's anything I would use as a supplementary discussion of interest, I wouldn't say this is evidence or apartheid evidence towards certain truth. But as a supplementary discussion of interest with, say, a non Muslim or something, it would be this, of all the things that we've discussed so far, because it does seem quite precise. And there is an interesting,
there is an interesting correlation, you could have that you have to be honest with you, of ourselves here with the Quranic discourse, and the 21st century scientific discourse, which isn't found in other ancient religious texts, and not even found, and this is going to be an even bigger claim and a very heavy one actually, not even found in philosophical and all scientific, ancient texts. Would you? Is it a big statement to make?
It's big, if you don't think Islam is the hub.
But for us, like obviously, we believe it.
Exactly, as you said, it seems like there's a very interesting correlation, which would be, you'd be hard pressed to explain why that correlation exists. If it wasn't, what about those who say that?
Most of them took it from him because he was known as the doctor of dogs. And they say that he was someone who's quite learned and traveled Midlands and it came across many cultures and many theories. And some claim this, how would you respond to that? Like, Hey, I think once again, for a second Next let's watch second Next let's pause for a second guys I can explanation of this because I think I do remember when I was some very young
Ah, maybe that's not the end. But I watched this debate and he had a brilliant explanation. So let's watch what he has to say about this. The point to be noted, just because someone says something which are matching the Quran
that doesn't mean that Quran has been copied from that.
Suppose I make a statement. Suppose if I make a statement, which is correct, which was sent by somebody else earlier, that doesn't mean have copied.
It may be it may not be to use the conflict of the Quran. Yes, he copied, okay, fine. But let's analyze the Quran doesn't take the things which are wrong from evocative. If you would have copied, you'd have copied everything.
It is logical, unless you the scientists, okay, this is correct. Oh, this is wrong. I won't Copy that. This is correct. I copy that.
Because he saw that guys, what he was saying was absolutely, I think there's a very strong argument that he makes, he's saying basically, that How could it be the case? First and foremost, he's trying to copy now as plagiarizing. He has to go into great lengths to find now the correct scientific discourse. So selective copying would be most in line with more than 70. Yeah, we just didn't happen. So it wouldn't choose from Aristotle, this Pliny the Elder wherever he has to go to Galen. And not only does he have to go to Galen, but he now he has to take from Galen, those things, which aren't necessarily in line with the scientific discourse or surgery. GALEN has mentioned alaka,
which is really poor. He pointed out I can I get another dimension article, which is one of the main things of the Quranic discourse. gala doesn't mention the 42 days in these things in the 40 days, and it doesn't he doesn't mention the same things as the Quran mentions anyways, he doesn't, some of the things are in line some of the things there are some continuous continuities there, there is some overlap there. But frankly, for me, frankly, if I was an academic truth seeker, this wouldn't, this wouldn't satiate my curiosity, I really wouldn't. I feel as if it doesn't serve us to the to the flame, it does a real disservice to them. And for them to have to make this claim is incredibly
for them to make this claim is incredibly telling, because why do you think that a man in the Think about this, think about this with our minds ready for a second? Amanda? Doesn't.
He's claiming to be a prophet. Now, his main concerns his political, economic, social, so according to them? Well, I mean, it would be if he's trying to unite people and you know, military conquest and all these things. Now he's putting forward a book.
His intentionality here, according to this theory, is to preserve it for people of a different generation, so as to make it in Congress so as to make it scientifically coherent. He could have just said anything of what the Arabs believed in at that time, and it wouldn't have made any difference to his immediate mission. Absolutely not to watch what you're saying. And that,
according to them, the theory is that he's a political activist, he's trying to unite the Arab tribes trying to make like a, like a, like an empire, sort of, what business does he have talking about an empire? What business does he have made mentioning these things in the first place? And if even if you didn't mention them, if you mentioned, if you mentioned them, and someone had, at the time said, No, you're wrong in this, because we don't have any evidence that the Prophet sesamum was ever learned in these things. If he had been caught out, it would have discredited his whole claim right from the beginning. So why make such a big risk? If you're looking at it from an outside
perspective, looking at it? Why make this claim? Or why make these statements in the first place? Yeah, why go completely out of line with what the Arab of the seven central will understand? intuitively? This is the point. Why doesn't he sometimes there are certain things, certain words, which the Arab uses generally, and that seventh century context, so why don't you just stick to those words? So he's using words which can be understood, but which can also be interpreted in our times? It seems a little bit contrived, from their angle. Now, to be honest with you, from their angle, it seems like they're really they're struggling with this one. I think they're struggling
with this one, because there is an interesting twist to this one. But frankly,
I think this is the the power of the Islamic discourse. I think that the timeless nature of the Quran, and the the timeless multidose. Its use has resources, this phrase, multi layered mobile two dimensional approach. It really is a multi layered multi dimensional reality because look at it, it made sense. It was perfect for them. They understood it, it was something a little bit what they weren't not used to the word wording, but they understood, generally white men. And it makes perfect sense for us today. So we can appreciate and it's completely outlined out of line with the biblical discourse, which is completely out of line with the with more than 21st century discourse.
Is this there's actually an interesting book written. Certain academic has written his
I believe he's from Oxford, but don't quote me on that his name is by samsa. And he's
written an interesting book where he's compiled all of the old Arabic poetry, pre pre Islamic poetry, and compared the kind of language that you that's used in that against the Quran, and tabulated it will basically and written like some small books and small treatises on it. And he's done on the Fatiha, he's gone into quite a lot of detail in the fair to her. And he's basically showing that in even in the fair to how the way that the sentences are structured, the way that the words are the words that are used, it's not what the Arabs were used to, at that time is completely new and different to the way that Arabs at that time would have phrased it, and what the pre Islamic
poetry the way that it was constructed. So it just is it raises a lot of questions, it raises a lot of questions that I hope we've been able to give you a lot of answers, guys, because this and the point of this discussion, and why are these people with different areas of expertise is to give you
a new academic approach. And I think this is really halala I really do believe what we're talking about here is is really not to use a big term, but could revolutionize could revolutionize the way we think about these things altogether. So it's for you guys to really start thinking critically about these things. be completely academic honest of ourselves, we don't want to say about what our last panel of data says that what she doesn't intend in the Quran. At the same time.
We're not we're not saying that science is a bad thing or anything like that. So in the next episode, we are going to talk about some other miscellaneous scientific miracles claims. And we're going to go through whether or not they are valid according to the extra juice just as we did with the embryology session today. I hope you've had a good session Make sure to subscribe to everyone's page. You've got a page as well, don't you? So I'll put in the descriptions they the social media is for these guys on my right and left in sha Allah put their name and the stuff that they kind of doing on social media. Make sure to subscribe to the channel for more information was Salam aleikum