DONATION APPEAL!

ALL our Projects are FREE and with no advertisements.

We serve millions of downloads a month... Now! Imagine earning on-going rewards of every lecture and quran audio and so on.

As well as helping us cover our running costs and future projects!

mufti menk image

"I really think this is one of the greatest causes one could support"

    Become a Patron
    Donate via PayPal

More Information and Options

Dawah in the Red Light District (Holland)

share this pageShare Page
Mohammed Hijab

Channel: Mohammed Hijab

Episode Notes

Episode Transcript

© No part of this transcript may be copied or referenced or transmitted in any way whatsoever. Transcripts are auto-generated and thus will be be inaccurate. We are working on a system to allow volunteers to edit transcripts in a controlled system.


00:00:00--> 00:00:38

salaam aleikum wa rahmatullah wa barakato. We're here near the infamous red light district in Amsterdam. And we're doing an experiment, if you like, gang people's opinion on the legalization of prostitution. And what we're going to try and do is to try and gauge public opinion, from our perspective, obviously, as Muslims, right. I mean, we completely are against such legalization. We're gonna put a case forward to individuals today, and ask them questions and targets of questions, thought provoking questions. But one thing should be registered and noted in the beginning of this is that the Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu, wasallam actually made a prediction. And

00:00:38--> 00:01:17

the prediction that he made was that there will come a time where people have intercourse with one another, like donkeys in front of people in the public. And he said, another Hadith, that as a result of that, there'll be a spread of diseases, the like of which had not preceded the previous people. So these were two prophetic predictions of the Prophet which we're seeing happen take place, and what more emblematic a place for it to take place in this place here. And also, so we're going to be asking people about their views on legalization, prostitution, we'll see what happens. All right. So we're just kind of trying to do some research. Obviously, we're near the infamous red

00:01:17--> 00:01:21

light district, and we're asking questions about what people think of

00:01:22--> 00:01:33

the legalization of prostitution. So what's what's your opinion, you are from this region? I'm from the UK, UK. What do I think of the legalization of prostitution?

00:01:34--> 00:01:49

I don't, I don't believe in legalizing prostitution, because I think prostitution is wrong. I think it's bad for society degrades women. So no, no, no, no, no, I'm a good Catholic girl. So no, again. Well, I would have a lot to agree with you on that on that point.

00:01:50--> 00:01:54

Yes, I thought, I thought we were praying to God. It's true. It's true.

00:01:56--> 00:02:29

Fantastic. No, I agree with you. No, it's very true. And as we were kind of doing research on this matter, we found that actually, this is a very commodifying and objectifying kind of reality that women are actually putting themselves defying women and women are screaming to be respected and treated with dignity. So where does that take the discussion about women and freedom and rights for women? Absolutely, yes. I think you need to ask more and more women, not men about where they stand on that. Absolutely. Thank you very much for your time. Excellent.

00:02:31--> 00:02:35

We're asking your opinions on certain things. Oh, yeah.

00:02:38--> 00:02:51

All right. So how are you guys doing? First of all, we have a pretty good, excellent, excellent Yeah, pretty good as well. He's, he's doing the best because he's an excellent. You guys said pretty good. Pretty good. Yeah. Can I change? I'm done. Excellent.

00:02:53--> 00:02:53

Excellent. No.

00:02:55--> 00:03:28

All right. What what are your names? and Jamie Kern? A Maxi mohammedia. I'm from the UK originally. Thank you to London. Yep. So I wanted to ask you a question. Obviously, this is quite controversial in almost all the world now about the legalization of prostitution. So what are your opinions on the legalization of prostitution here in Holland since 2000? Oh, God, I don't really know why it should be legal that came as Oh, how are you from the UK? Yeah. You're doing a really good UK accent?

00:03:29--> 00:03:37

No, the controversy surrounds and you guys can correct me if I'm wrong. It's whether it should be criminalized here in the here in Holland, there was a discussion about

00:03:39--> 00:03:43

the UK as well. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think it should be criminalized.

00:03:44--> 00:03:45

Here, the east.

00:03:46--> 00:03:53

You know, you can see see the women in the doorway and you know, they're doing well then are walking some sort of street corner.

00:03:54--> 00:04:02

But have you have you tried anything with those women? Have you experimented yourself? I mean, have you? No, no, but, but,

00:04:03--> 00:04:03

but

00:04:10--> 00:04:17

like, are they being exploited or not? So so so so so that's what I do? One by one. So

00:04:19--> 00:04:21

like so? I guess if

00:04:22--> 00:04:58

England? No, no, I'm French. I'm French. Yeah. And I think if people wants to go to the prostitutes are going so shouldn't be criminalized as well. Yeah. Some of the issues concern most pertinently to human trafficking. So they so Some say that? Yeah, it's definitely criminalized. I mean, it's already criminal. But the issue is that since it's been legalized here in Holland, human trafficking, which of which entails slavery, like sexual slavery and so on, has increased. So that's the main argument that they use for against it. One of the main arguments is increased everywhere, anywhere. Yeah. So one of the studies that has been done in 2013

00:05:00--> 00:05:05

Which is the effect of human trafficking, prostitution on human trafficking,

00:05:06--> 00:05:11

which has been done by Eric Meyer and others in LSE, University of you know, in the UK.

00:05:12--> 00:05:13

And this has also published in the world

00:05:14--> 00:05:43

development journal, that they say that actually, countries generally which which legalized prostitution alongside the legal others, because there's an increase in human trafficking as well. And those countries like sweden, sweden, criminalize there, and there's a decrease in human trafficking in that in that regard. So having having those facts in mind, does that change your opinion? A little bit? Yeah, it doesn't matter if it was gonna up, increase human trafficking back home, then definitely not that

00:05:45--> 00:05:52

is kind of the mindset of saying that it would probably I thought it would, ya know, not make as many people on the street or

00:05:54--> 00:06:02

so so yeah, I did vaguely know about some of the issues with with the legalization. Some of the arguments.

00:06:03--> 00:06:04

But

00:06:05--> 00:06:10

I i understand that yeah, it could increase Yeah, human trafficking.

00:06:11--> 00:06:14

But whether prohibition is the right

00:06:15--> 00:06:26

way of doing it, or whether we need more education and more safeguards for women who do decide to do sex work if they are deciding to do sex work, so.

00:06:27--> 00:06:58

So I don't think it should be criminalized, because I think you should be able to, if you want to pay for it, if you want to sell it, you should be able to do that. But yeah, I do. Let me let me put you guys in a scenario, which might be a bit weird. All right. This might be a bit weird. I'm not sure if you're intending to use the services here and your holidays. But well, I was gonna say was that, say, for instance, because you know, in this country, right, you have to pay before the services are done, right. So you have to actually pay the money before. Obviously, they've got buttons in there and stuff if they feel like they're being robbed. So if you have to pay for the

00:06:58--> 00:07:23

services, for instance, right, and you go in, I mean, you're young lad, wherever, maybe it's not gonna happen with you. But you take off your shirt, you start getting ready. And she says, You know what, I'm not attracted to get out. But she's already taking your money, right? So can you see the issues here? I mean, what would you do in that scenario? Well, can you get a refund? You can't get a refund. You can't get everything. Wow. Well, I suppose she's taking 50 is it 50 euros? Oh, you don't?

00:07:26--> 00:07:28

How much? Is it? Okay.

00:07:30--> 00:07:34

It must have a number on the street when it's not when it's not like, like, legit.

00:07:36--> 00:07:53

So I'm sure I'm probably much worse consequences happen. I guess it's the same kind of argument with we'd like, you know, if you legalize it a little bit different because at least you can kind of measure the thing. And you know, that there was a physical substance, but yeah, it's not Yeah, I guess it is.

00:07:55--> 00:08:02

Yeah, I guess you Yeah, I guess legislation is never really gonna take people's feelings into account.

00:08:03--> 00:08:11

I mean, I suppose I suppose even though you are paying for it. The woman doesn't have to really accept it. So. So So I understand that.

00:08:12--> 00:08:23

be pissed off by it. Yeah, but you just wasted 50 pounds or 50 euros. Yeah, you've wasted that money. But you can't force yourself on a woman. euro. So

00:08:26--> 00:09:01

I'm sure you I'm sure. Yeah. Okay. How about how about this? I'm gonna put you in a shop one more? Sorry. I'll put you Oh, yeah. Let me put you in another scenario. So say you've paid the money, she's happy to have you. You go inside this room, you close the curtains, whatever it is. And then afterwards, you start having intercourse, you know, three minutes in, you know, she starts saying Get off me Get off me, right. And then she starts saying that you raped, she pushes you pushes the button, she says you raped her, because you didn't get off as quickly as you should have. Now you see how that can be quite a challenging scenario. How would you avert that? I don't know. I've never

00:09:01--> 00:09:04

been in that situation. And I never hope I would be.

00:09:05--> 00:09:12

But yeah, cuz not is really great. You can't release. Sorry, I don't have I don't I don't know.

00:09:14--> 00:09:28

I mean, I'm thinking here and, and. And, yeah, I mean, I don't want any woman to be raped and and yeah, issues with consent and things like that. But But yeah, that's real difficult.

00:09:29--> 00:09:36

No, no, it's just it's just something to have in your mind. Yeah, but thank you very much, guys for for your for your contributions. Take care, guys.

00:09:37--> 00:09:38

Thank you, Kevin.

00:09:39--> 00:10:00

Yeah, yeah. So as you guys have seen, the main argument seems to be one of liberty, a woman should do whatever she wants to do. If you want to sell the body, you can sell the body. If you want to buy it, you should be able to buy it. So it's one a freedom. But the main challenges we've seen also has been one of restriction of freedom quite ironically, as well, because, yeah, you're increasing the freedom supposedly for one group of consumers.

00:10:00--> 00:10:38

And suppliers, in the case of the prostitutes, but you would be restricting the freedom of those people being human traffic, because the demand is increasing. And of course, because those people don't have a choice don't have a choice in the matter whatsoever. So if something that you're doing, the byproduct of which is an increase in slavery in society, here in Europe, the question is, should we continue doing that thing or not? But here when we go back to the issue of human trafficking, though, someone could argue, though, that if you give, because what it is, that's a different question, it is, it is the rules and legislation, which huge,

00:10:39--> 00:10:40

which, which huge,

00:10:41--> 00:10:54

have a certain control in it, when that's failing, then you have the human trafficking, and the abuse and misuse of the women. So

00:10:56--> 00:11:33

control it have put your focus as a government or as a police state, or whatever, on that, and not on the women, from your experience, and from your knowledge here in the country. You know, like when, for example, when women close the curtains and they and they offer the service or whatever they're offering for X amount of minutes, I don't know how it works, or whatever. Yeah. So when that happens, and the concern here is that what happens in the closed room as well. So for example, if a woman has been raped, they have a button immediately, they will be a

00:11:34--> 00:11:55

police or whatever around. So if that if they press the button, and then the person who is the the one who is the alleged, so the one who's being alleged of rape, if they're if they deny the allegation. So how do we resolve that kind of initiative is like this is a done is legislation? Because it's a one on one situation. Right, right.

00:11:56--> 00:12:20

So So another question I've always wondered as well, right? So for example, if someone because you have to pay before you get the service, isn't he? Yes, of course. Otherwise, you would walk away and say bye. Oh, darling. Ah, yes. So if the payment is done before the service, right, and the service is not provided, and the service is not provided? Yeah. So how can that be resolved? A bad sales woman?

00:12:22--> 00:12:46

Yeah, so But doesn't that doesn't that mean that there's a miscarriage of justice in a sense, because obviously, if the payment is not provided, so for example, if you go inside and you pay the money, right? But yourself some x person, Tom goes in and pays the person, right. And he pays. And then the woman says, You know what? She looks at the person, he takes off his shirt, you know, it doesn't look so good. He doesn't want to continue with this. She says get out of the room. So what now What now? It is, it is

00:12:47--> 00:13:05

that you have to make the rules. Very clear. Yeah. But how would you How would you uphold those rules? I mean, I'm just really wondering, you have to, you have to make that very clear. But that's a business contract for that very moment. And then that's not being

00:13:07--> 00:13:11

followed, then there's a

00:13:12--> 00:13:49

wrong thing happening. And then you have to press charges or whatever, or suit somebody's trying, I would think that would be quite difficult to prove. I thank you very much for your, for your for your opinion, what they found was that in 2013, was this this study? Which is was entitled, does does the league, the legalization of prostitution, increase human trafficking? Now, I think that was the name of the study, right? And it was in world development journal, right? They found that when you criminalize prostitution, what that does is it decreases human trafficking. When you legalize, it increases and then looked at more than one case study. And it was, it was pretty

00:13:49--> 00:14:08

multidisciplinary, and in the sense that it was more than one professor looking at it, and so on. So just on that fact alone, do you think if that can be proven, it can be proven and we should stop? I mean, Human trafficking is all always wrong. Yes. So we should stop that if we could one way or another.

00:14:09--> 00:14:24

I'm not clear what it's if it's one way or another, right. And it's Yeah, I can. I don't have the solution for it. No, I see what you're saying. And what because what human trafficking is, is really a slavery, isn't it? So as I said, it's always something

00:14:26--> 00:14:59

as being there, prostitution is always something that is there. Even if it's very like in China. I walked out with Chinese people. It's not allowed in China. But it's a lot of China. If I go there, every hotel a day, you have some prostitutes, and I think Yeah, okay. What? It's not good. Yes, yes. But it's I'm very happy to get your opinion because you seem to be quite balanced at least and thinking that, you know, if there's good enough evidence, then then it should be. Yeah, of course. Yeah. Thank you very much for that, sir. Okay, thank you. Take care.

00:15:00--> 00:15:37

All right, so we've been able to gauge some public opinion and there are mixed as you would have expected mixed opinions here in, in Amsterdam, about the legalization of prostitution. Obviously, from an Islamic perspective, prostitution is one of the worst things you can do, because it's objectifying, commodifying women, and it's putting them in a situation of, you know, desperation, sometimes abuse, a very vulnerable. And obviously, we believe in the five objectives in the shutdown one of them being the protection of the dignity of a human being. So we feel like sexual intercourse should only be done in the confines of, you know, one's private spaces, but also in the institution

00:15:37--> 00:15:41

through the institution, for example of marriage. And so from our perspective, the case is quite clear.

00:15:43--> 00:16:25

I mean, just imagine this, I mean, this is a place where you would see someone in the back here, literally prancing around, you know, showing their bodies for display, almost kind of similar to what you see in a butcher shop. I mean, you know, slabs of meat moving around. I mean, you got to think about the psychological state of a person who would be literally standing here with, with red lights, and so on, published publicizing their bodies, in order to make money really, and that's how many times one has to do that day before it becomes taxing on the body, taxing on the mind, how many possibilities are there of abuse in that process, how much things can go wrong, how much aids can be

00:16:25--> 00:17:04

spread, how much STDs can be spread. And this, of course, goes back to the prophetic tradition of Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu sallam, our Prophet who predicted in the future, that there will come a time where people will be having sex, sexual intercourse, like dunk like donkeys in public, and then people will be doing it and not having anything to say about it. And this society has acquiesced to, to a, to a high extent, to this, to this practice of prostitution to this practice of prostitution happening in this country, despite the fact as we've mentioned, that human trafficking has gone up forced labor has gone up, sexual slavery has gone up, and so on, and so forth. So I think I would

00:17:04--> 00:17:28

leave everyone here today, was thinking about our purpose in life, how do you become self actualized human being? Is it by, you know, selling your body, I mean, something so price that should be ought to be potentially quite private to your your physical body, giving that to as many men or women, unfortunately, in the case of Amsterdam is men giving it to women for the most part,

00:17:29--> 00:17:57

which is, of course, a slap in the face to feminism, which talks about equality as well. But all of that being said, What should we do? I think we should go back to basics as human beings, and think about what the purpose of life is. And I think that the purpose of life is, when you are in line with the Divine Will in line with your, what you're meant to do as a human being in this world. And I don't think it's this now, before anyone judges, I mean, we didn't come here

00:17:58--> 00:18:35

in a peak hour, a peak time and we were directed by the locals, of course, to come to areas where there would not be any commodification, public publicizing of bodies going on. So we hamdulillah wouldn't see anything we ought, we ought not to have seen by it was an experience which showed me Unfortunately, the backward elements of European society and civilization, which ought to be remedied by introspection, frankly, and intellection to things which are part of the European project, and hopefully, can continue to be so Salam aleikum wa rahmatullah what I guess