Lauren Booth – What Makes Gaza Different from the Rest of the World
AI: Summary ©
The speaker discusses their experiences with Islam, including their desire to return to their family and their desire to be a strong person. They emphasize the importance of staying true to one's principles and values to achieve victory in Islam. The speaker also discusses the challenges of living in a child-led society and the importance of social and political dynamics in filling gaps in people's lives. They emphasize the need for change and a focus on helping people, as well as the importance of history and war in the future.AI: Transcript ©
Are you broken?
Do you need a psychologist?
Will you never recover from this?
The level of blissfulness and happiness that I
was at in Gaza,
I never experienced in my life. When you
go out of Gaza, the there's a relief
like, oh, I'm going home to my family.
I've escaped,
in a way. And then the first thought
after that is, well, I wanna go back.
Well, when will I get back? I am
sure
that
Allah will grant us victory, and we will
remain steadfast here in Gaza, striving through all
the options that we have against this oppression
until we either achieve victory in this world
or we become martyrs.
Assalamu alaikum warahmatullah.
We are in conversation
with Sister Lauren Booth. Welcome, Sister. Barak alaafiq.
It's an honor to be here Mansoor. How
are you doing? I'm good. I'm good. Thank
you. Alhamdulillah. JazakAllah Khair.
Just a quick introduction, if possible, Sister Lauren,
for the audience. And, yeah, what brought you
here to Qatar?
So I'm part of a a Turkish delegation
and we are trying to tackle Islamophobia,
also give dower in different places.
And, here was the wrap up of the
program, but really
I wanted to stay on and make sure
that we met in person, insha'Allah.
Jazak Lecher. Thank you very much. And,
can you tell us a little bit more
about yourself, Sister Lauren, if that's okay? You
know what? I think everybody's story is both
a long story and a short story. Yeah.
I wasn't Muslim,
then Allah guided me and now I'm Muslim.
Alhamdulillah.
And between those, I had some work.
My my profession is,
journalism. I'm also a trained actor
and an author. And I just try to
really present
a meaningful Muslim narrative from our point of
view, from our framing,
not our stories told by somebody else and
repeated back to to us in some perverse
form. So that's that's where I come from.
I have 2 daughters. I have a wonderful
husband. Alhamdulillah. Alhamdulillah. And, you know, like all
souls, there have been ups and downs in
this life.
SubhanAllah. May Allah bless you.
I remember, meeting the first time, over social
media, on Instagram
and doing a live together,
talking about Gaza.
At that time, I was in Nassar Hospital
in Khan Yunus.
May you take us back to that time
and,
you know, what led to the interview? What
your thoughts were? How you felt during it?
And, how you how you how what their
actions were after it. I mean,
can you take us back to that time?
So I think that you know, I think
that's really interesting because,
you you know, having been to Gaza,
and lived with the people there and also
been guided to Islam by the grace of
Allah through the people and their and their
glorious
kindness and generosity
and otherness.
In a way to humanity, I think the
people of Gaza
are strange.
They were strange to me as a non
Muslim.
And so those first days
of the genocide,
I was calling people, my friends, my beloveds
in Gaza and saying, you don't be annoyed
with me. I was saying, can you make
me feel better about this?
Because
being outside
was just horrific. Like, this can't you you
you spend days going, this can't be happening.
This can't be happening.
I kept saying to my husband, am am
I having a nightmare? This isn't happening.
And then you'd call, you know, your friends
in Gaza City, Rozan, my niece,
my best friend, Yassa, in in Gaza.
And, I said to Rosanne, I can't do
it this time. I can't
be
upbeat for you. They never need me to
be upbeat, but normally I'm like, hey. How
are you doing? You know, you're gonna be
okay. Alhamdulillah.
You know, tell me and this time I
was like, I've got nothing. I'm shocked.
And they
made me feel better. So when we started
talking,
I was still in the zone of
how remarkable are these people?
How beautiful is Islam?
How how incredibly
uplifting?
How are they managing this? And yet knowing
how they manage it. And so we were
those it was quite early. It was NASA
Hospital when we when we first spoke. So
I was I I felt out of kilter
with the rest of the world because I
was like, yeah. But do you see what
they're like? Do you see the Sakena? Do
you see that actually
on some
incredibly spiritual,
level, they're okay?
That what's happening is awful and evil, and
we have to tackle it. But there's goodness
in the the people, and people like, what
are you talking about?
And I didn't really wanna go into the
politics. So when I spoke to you, I
I watched a little bit of it back,
and I was so embarrassed because all I
did was cry.
Because you were, by the grace of Allah,
reflecting back at me what I was having
a tiny little remembrance
of away from Gaza. SubhanAllah. Does that make
sense? Yes. It does.
Can you take us back to the first
time you entered Gaza?
What happened? I mean, how did you manage
to enter and
how do you remember Gaza at that time?
You talked about the people being very generous,
very sincere.
We talked a little bit about their level
of innovation before before we before we started
this talk.
Take us a little bit through the journey
to Gaza the first time.
Well, the first time was actually,
I think it was 2,006.
I went as a journalist on my own.
I just got the permission papers and just
went in, and and I remember the feeling
that what was the contrast to the West
Bank?
I think people just felt a lot more
kind of centered. Mhmm. So the West Bank
is kinda busy and buzzy and exciting and
beautiful and kind as well, but there's something
kind of weighted,
that I noticed there. But I'll tell you
what I did notice,
that as a westerner,
the level of respect,
and I mean as a woman,
there was a distance,
and that distance was never
compromised.
And then really
the time that I spent
in Gaza, which was most meaningful for me,
was in 2008,
when the Free Gaza mission
were 2 boats from Cyprus
coming to challenge the Israeli blockade which was
just a year old at that time.
And
I remember standing on the deck of the
Free Gaza
and looking out.
Oh God.
It's really hard, isn't it? When you anyway.
Yes.
K.
Yeah. Anyway. So
the boats came to the shore, and I
remember seeing little dots on the shore. And,
Greta saying to me, you know, what are
those? And we looked, and we realized they
were people.
And then a sound reached us, and the
sound was Allahu Akbar
Allahu Akbar.
Because we didn't know because we'd had a
a a media blockout because,
the Israeli,
forces had jammed our sat our satellite phones.
So we didn't know if anybody was watching
us, if anybody in Gaza knew we were
coming even, and 30,000,
Palestinians had slept on the beaches and were
waiting for the crazy foreigners. Are they really
coming in boats, And they're not gonna be
blown up. I mean, what is gonna happen?
And when we arrived,
there was So the Israelis didn't stop you
at any moment? Because we were so random,
and we were such a ragtag bunch of
maniacs, honestly. By maniacs, I mean, amazing people
who would just get on a boat and
go, okay. We might be blown up, but
let's do this for humanity.
You're not gonna be kind of your average
Joe. Right? Yeah. K. Sorry. Back back to
So,
the I just remember, you know, throwing
our scarves over the edge and pulling children
up.
And, yeah, and everything that could float in
Gaza was on the sea that day. Everything.
I'm sure at one point, I saw a
bathtub.
Well, I sure. I mean, there were bits
of old boats. There were surfboards.
There were there were little, fishing,
little canoes with, like, 40 people on them
going,
It was truly incredible.
And then I remember pulling into what was
a little bit of a dock there.
And,
then the guys in black get on board.
Yeah. And, you know, oh, it's Hamas. Okay.
Okay. These are the guys you're meant to
be serious about.
And the my first interaction
with
the brothers from Hamas was them crying.
Right? So it's very hard to be scared
of someone. They're going,
welcome,
and turning away. And you're like, are these
big guys crying? Are they crying? Are you
cry I'm a cryer.
Stuff will let you know.
And just thinking these people have a sweetness
to them.
And, yeah, that was really the beginning of
a, a part of my life that's filled
my heart. How did you communicate with them?
Do they speak English? Or
a lot of people do speak English. K.
A lot of people do speak English. It's
how you know someone's lying about whether they've
been to so there was a yeah. Anyway,
that's another story. But, you you know, I
I if there was once somebody who said,
oh, I've been to the West Bank a
lot, but nobody there speaks English. And you're
like, you've never been or you've been with
the other side. Right? So, yeah, lots and
lots of people speak English. Hamdul. Hamdul. Hamdul.
So what did you do there? Just a
quick summary quick. Well, you know, we were
only meant to stay 3 or 4 days
to deliver some food aid, to touch base,
to see what message we could take out.
I was basically,
yeah, I was literally the human shield. I've
there was a human shield in Gaza, and
it was me, everybody, and it was foreigners
who brought me there because they're like, we're
hoping that Israel won't blow up Tony Blair's
sister-in-law.
To be quite honest, that's the only reason
that you're here. I'm like, great, because he
hates me right now. So I'm no use
to you at all. Right?
So we were only meant to stay 3
days and then leave. But on day 3,
I stood on the beach near the Aldira.
Yep. Is it still there?
Probably not. Not right now. Nothing is there.
Yeah. So, we we stood we stood stood
there, and they're going, get on get on
the boat. And I'm like, I can't. And
they're like, Greta's going, honey, we're going. Get
on the boat. You're not thinking Russian. I'm
like, I don't wanna be a grief tourist.
There's something I need to do. I don't
even know what it is. Yeah. But I'm
gonna stay for a few more days and
and do some more interviews because I'm not
done here.
And I would be there the whole month.
I wasn't able to leave.
Since that time until the current war on
Gaza,
any interactions with the Palestinian people there? Any
other visits?
Yeah. Haven't you? That you've done?
So when I was there, I got a
job with Press TV because I thought I've
got oh, you know, I've gotta find something
to do. I started training with Youssef Al
Halloo,
Gaza journalist, Masha'Allah.
I know all the journalists,
so I worked with them. Alhamdulillah.
So, yeah, I worked as a journalist there.
Then I stayed on at Press TV and,
by the grace of Allah, we created a
program in 2009 called
remember the children of Palestine.
Alhamdulillah.
That ran for 2 years.
And,
and then kept going back either with charity
or with,
advocacy work for sometimes for prisoners.
And they kept going back until 2014,
when it got really difficult to go through
the Sinai.
Okay. Okay. So after 2014,
physically, you weren't able to go back to
that? No. It got it just got really,
really difficult to fight to get the permission.
That's why I can't believe it's been 10
years because I I made it, you know,
determined to see my friends once a year.
And the thing I
that I've re
really remember Mansoor as a as a because
most of that, you know, 2008, 2010, I
wasn't Muslim, was was when you go out
of Gaza, the there's a relief, like, oh,
I'm going home to my family. I've escaped
in a way. And then the first thought
after that is, well, I wanna go back.
Well, when will I get back? Isn't it?
When will I get back? Yes. Inshallah, soon.
Inshallah, soon. Soon. Inshallah.
So now we're in 20, 24, 10 years
later, and,
the whole world has been seeing what's been
happening over the last 165
days there.
What are your what's going on through your
mind right now?
Let's elaborate more on that.
When I when I'm when I'm
when I'm speaking to people from Gaza, I
can
I can I can live?
And when I'm not,
I just have to I'm just asking Allah
just
make me strong enough to to to
to not break down really.
I'm okay here with you right now, hamdulillah,
because you're strong.
And and, you know, we're in the, we're
in the the zone when I speak to
my brother Yasser and Razan.
So I'll give you an example, you know,
a call 3 days ago. How are you?
It's been a little bit difficult, but we're
okay. Look at that. So that's a camping
holiday
That is literally not a genocide. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Right? Yeah. And the weird thing is
we managed to smile at this moment. Why?
Because
there is a there are miracles happening, and
you hold on to the miracle
that it that Allah reveals to humanity
in times of oppression to the believers.
And when you see
Quranic ayah coming true before your eyes, That's
that's how I'm staying alive right now. Alhamdulillah.
I, yeah, I can't say I can't,
Being there being lived lived having lived there
for 2 years,
and then having been
witnessing
firsthand the war there, physically on the ground,
whether in Gaza or
in Khan Yunus or in other places,
I can tell you that the biggest miracle
one of the biggest miracles is that
despite everything that's been thrown at them,
you know, the people there are still remaining
steadfast.
There's a sense of peace and tranquility
that I have never felt in my life.
And
yesterday, when I was on Al Jazeera Muasher,
they got,
they got someone to speak live from inside
a Shifa
hospital
while it was being raided.
And they asked him to send a message
to the world.
And he said, I'm not gonna send a
message to the Arab countries, or the Arab
people, or the Muslims, or Eiman's world.
My message is that I am sure
that Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala will grant us
victory, and we will remain steadfast here in
Gaza,
striving through all the options that we have
against this oppression
until we either achieve victory in this world
or we become martyrs.
So
this is how I remember Gaza. This is
this is this is, you know, when people
ask me about Gaza,
this is the mentality of the general population
there, is that they regard themselves as those
who are remaining steadfast
on the Holy Land
on behalf of all the free people of
this world. Mhmm.
And when you ask them, you know,
is it just about Gaza or Jerusalem or
Palestine?
No. I mean, their goal is
is is you know, Gaza is like the
place to start.
You know, Gaza is where they've been building
for the last decade or so. You know,
children
that have memorized the Quran, understand the sunnah
of the Prophet
and his companions,
trying to apply it wherever possible in different
ways.
And despite the siege, innovating in different areas,
in different sciences,
in different fields of arts and and,
and and literature.
Despite the unemployment rate being at 75 to
80%.
Oh, wow. You know, people still managing to
to produce and and and and and to
continue to give back to this Umma.
So,
Mansoor, can we unpick that a little bit?
Sure. And see because you gave some really
important figures there, but I really wanna go
back to one word because you specifically said
it in all of your broadcast. We are
steadfast. We we will continue.
And I don't think
that we really have a grasp of what
steadfastness
means. Can you
what does it mean
from a Koranic perspective, and what does it
mean from a lived perspective? What does that
look like?
So,
the the the translation
in Arabic is, you know, a Sabbath.
That
the
definition, in my opinion, of of victory in
Islam
is a thabat aladeen, a thabat alal aqid,
So,
in Islam,
in my opinion, victory is achieved when you
remain steadfast on your principles, on your values,
on your Islamic faith.
And my evidence for that is that Allah
Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala,
called
Sabal Uhdud,
the people that were thrown into the trenches
of fire
in Surat al Buruj,
even though they all got killed, and they
all got burnt by the fire, and they
all died,
men, women, and children,
he called that al Fazl Kabir,
the greatest victory,
the greatest victory. Even though from a materialistic
point of view, they all died. Why did
they say it's a it's the biggest victory?
Because they stayed remaining holding steadfast to their
values,
to their faith, to their creed, to Islam,
to believing in the oneness of Allah Subhanahu
Wa Ta'ala
and following his his his rules.
And even in the ayah and the Quran,
you know,
Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala talks about those who
strive,
in his in his sake.
He talks about, you know, that the first
goal, the first target, inshallah, is that Allah
has already bought your souls
and your money in return for Jannah.
You know? This is this is the first
as Muslims, like, we view this life as
temporary, as a test, and that if we
achieve, for example, martyrdom, we are achieve the
highest level of reward, insha'Allah,
in addition to a level of peace and
tranquility and happiness in this life. However, in
the Quran, it says,
So he talks about,
you know, that you need to work for
the sake of Allah and that if you
die, you're a martyr. And
something else that you also like,
a victory. A physical victory from Allah against
those enemies. That's something else. That's something else.
That's something else.
Physical victory is kind of by the by.
You might see it now. It might not
come. It might your grandkids might see it.
You never know when the result will come.
And that's why as Muslims,
from my understanding,
we are not held accountable for results. We
are held accountable for actions.
Results are in hand of Allah Subhanahu Wa
Ta'ala.
We need to be accountable to make sure
that our intentions are for His sake and
His sake only. And that we do our
actions according to the teachings of the Quran
and the Sunnah.
Do proper Mashura, do Rastikharah,
you know, speak with people that we trust.
Mhmm. And then we move forward, inshallah.
You know, I I heard that word steadfast
in,
2012
when I visited Bay at Hannoon,
and we were going to, support give some
support to a family who was in a
difficult circumstance.
And
I remember walking along, Bay at Hannun, and,
you know, it used to be all,
farming land. Right? It was the farm part
of Gaza.
And then it's all barbed wire, and you
can see the sniper turrets.
And so we go into this,
dwelling, which is which really Mansoor is like
it was like a garage. You'd consider it
a garage. It was a very open garage,
and there were 2 families living in there.
And,
the mother started introducing her children not by
their names, but their names and their injuries.
The I've never been through never seen that
before. So this is,
this is Samir. He's got a bullet in
here. Look at the wound. And I'm like,
okay.
That's from the sniper. He was collecting so
he was collecting stones to sell, and he
snipered him. He'll never play football again. This
is,
you know, little daughter, Fatima.
She just rocks pick up and down because
of the shock of,
Operation Cars Lead, and it went on and
on and on. And
then she said, Alhamdulillah.
And I'm like, okay. I went to pray
in the back, in one of the back
kind of rooms,
and I started to cry.
I started to cry
afterwards and I was just crying and crying.
And she came in and it was dark
and all they had, you know, when they
use the lights from the phone? Yeah. Yeah.
Because there's no lighting. She said, why are
you crying? I said, I'm crying for you.
She was shocked.
Oh, you're crying for us?
But we're so happy.
We have Allah and
Allah has told us
that if we are steadfast,
he will give us Jannah.
And that was, you know, one of those
moments when that word steadfast
really, really has a physical impact because you're
seeing people live that. Splendid. And it's and
that and then that steadfastness is not related
to materialism.
Yes. And,
some of the other, synonyms for steadfastness is
not to to be patient. You know? And,
You know? There there's there's been an emphasis
in many parts of the Quran and the
sun about being patient,
remaining patient.
You know? Like,
and
and there were times
in Gaza,
it's it would it would have been very
hard in other places of the world for
someone to be patient.
But but patience sometimes
opens the doors
to many too many good things
that are to come. And, SubhanAllah,
the the people there are very patient people.
That's really interesting. Think of how yeah. I'm
sorry. Karen. Yeah. I'm sorry. Go ahead. No.
I was just say I want I just
want to to to to to pick up
on that.
Patience opens the doors. Yes.
Yes. Because many times,
I think that there is here in something.
Right? That there is something good that's supposed
to come now. Mhmm. And I try to
rush and make it happen.
But Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala starts putting barriers
towards it's happening. And I'm thinking I'm doing
something good. I'm saying this. Allah Subhanahu Wa
Ta'ala should open the door for me. Why
why why is he making things harder for
me? Right?
And and in my younger times, I would
try to even push it further and then,
SubhanAllah, I would face the consequences.
Now, and especially after what I've been through
in Gaza, I'm like, okay, if Allah
it's meant to be, it's going to be
meant to be. I just need to be
patient
and walk towards that direction. If it's meant
to be, it's going to happen. If not,
then Allah Subhana Wa Ta'la, may he make
it may he close its door as soon
as possible and keep me away from it.
And that's how I translate patience right now.
Let me ask you this. So, obviously, I
come from a non Muslim family Yeah. And
I have mainstream friends
and, colleagues, and
they ask questions like,
oh, those poor people must be broken. Mhmm.
Oh, they're never gonna recover.
Oh,
they're gonna need psychologists
to help them.
Are you broken?
Do you need a psychologist?
Will you never recover from this?
I I personally do not agree with these
three statements. I
the level of blissfulness and happiness that I
was at in Gaza,
I never experienced in my life.
And I've lived in the West. I've lived
in the Middle East. I've lived in many
areas in the world.
And
Alhamdulillah, I come from a very well off
family financially.
And,
I'm blessed with a wife and 5 kids.
And,
my father and mother are still alive, Alhamdulillah.
So I try my best to care for
them and get their blessings.
However,
I never felt fulfilled
and happy.
And like I said before, a sense of
peace and tranquility, except during
my time at Gaza and especially during the
war in Gaza.
So,
does that mean that, you know, after a
ceasefire happens, we do not need to attend
to
the mental health of the population at large.
That, you know, I I think, no, we
should,
in general. I mean, any any society definitely
has a lot of opportunities when it comes
to either the physical or mental
state of of its of its of its
people. Right?
But I strongly believe that as a Muslim,
you know, if you're close to Allah Subhanahu
Wa Ta'ala,
that Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala will make things
easier for you.
Let me give you an example.
I remember going through weeks
without drinking
good, like, clean water.
Living every day Can you just describe the
taste of the water in Gaza then? Let
alone now. So it's well water. So sometimes
it have be have a large concentration of,
like, salt and and things in it. So
what we we try to we try to
filter that water through layers of cotton,
like sand and and and and and like
small pebbles. And,
sometimes we would we would find, like,
like, some juice juice cans which we would
drink.
You know,
so normally, for example, we're told you need
to be healthy. You need to drink 2
liters of water a day.
I haven't
I I drank maybe 2 liters of non
pure water for a week, and I was
okay.
We were told you need to consume at
least 2,000 calories a day. I'm sure I
consumed less than 500 calories a day. And
alhamdulillah,
like no headaches, no stomach pains.
We were also living in very condensed
areas. Like you're talking about tens of thousands
of people in a hospital, in schools, but
schools.
But with Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala's grace,
no mass,
outbreak of any, disease was happening. Talking about
mass outbreaks.
There is sickness, obviously, but you're saying not
You like like
you're if if I mean, to to the
up to to to the to the extent
where tens of thousands would also be sick,
and you you would need medications for all
of them, and they would all be in
bed
ridden,
I didn't see that. I did see a
lot of individual cases of people being sick.
But you would think that in a normal
situation,
you
know, with people being so close,
and even though they try to clean the
area as much as they can
with disinfectants,
and they try to, you know,
they try their best because we're Muslims. We
need to pray 5 times a day. We
need to be clean. We need to wash.
You know?
But, SubhanAllah,
it's tough because you don't have electricity.
You don't have,
at many times,
proper plumbing. Right?
You don't have sometimes access to to water.
Right?
But despite all of that,
I'm telling you, it's a miracle that
there hasn't been mass
mass
infections or mass disease or mass death as
a result
of these condensed,
gatherings.
Again, that's another blessing from Allah Subhanahu Wa
Ta'ala. Not saying that what's happening there
is is is like good. No. This should
stop immediately. What's happening is bad. What's happening
is wrong. And insha'Allah, we're working towards that.
I'm just saying that
this is another sign for Allah Subhanahu Wa
Ta'ala that these people are blessed. This land
is blessed. And that their way
of life and their struggle against this occupation
is blessed. You'd mentioned that, Masha'Allah, you have
2 daughters.
Can you tell us a little bit more
about them? Alhamdulillah. My daughters are 23 and
21.
And, they came to Islam when they were,
9 9 and 11 years old. They started
praying.
And I was always trying to bring them
up in a in a spiritual way. Well,
maybe because,
I was involved with Palestine, but I think
I've always been kind of anti consumerism
in that way. I've always got the the
more stuff you have, the less it matters
and surrounding your life with plastic. And so,
Christmas, a couple of times, I wouldn't buy
them any gifts. I would get them one
thing each, and then on Christmas Eve, I'd
say to their father,
what have I done? I'm abusing our children.
They're gonna be crying. I should go out
and buy them a £1,000 worth of toys.
And then, of course, being kids, they'd open
the present. They'd enjoy it and then play
with the box anyway.
You know? Because that's
they do something random anyway.
I remember taking them to the Egyptian desert
when they were
6 and 3 years old with a French
couple.
And all we got for the children I
mean, you know what birthdays are like now
in the Muslim community or Eid is getting
very kind of like, how much can you
buy
if you think of Christmas.
Right? And all I got we we made
a deal.
Each child gets a wooden toy and a
wooden,
musical instrument and one piece of clothing. And
do you know what they did? Christmas morning,
they found their little gifts, and we were
in the desert. Literally, we were sleeping outside.
And they just put on a show.
And they put on they put on the
clothes, and, of course, you're a different character.
Now I am this princess. And then they
played their own music, and it was the
best. And and,
yeah, there's a great lesson there about,
you know, not attaching
ourselves
to materialism.
Lack of need you know, not needing to
be in the shops all the time. Yeah.
Definitely. I mean, being in in Gaza,
for all this period,
I mean, you can survive and be happy
while not consuming
as SubhanAllah.
Any SubhanAllah, Islam teaches us to be productive,
but capitalism teaches us to consume.
So,
I think that,
you know, when talk when talking to a
lot of people that,
listen to some sometimes, you know, I was
talking on social media about Islam being a
way of life and, you know, Islam,
because it's divine from Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala.
It's not like man made,
a man made
ideology. Right? We believe it's divine, and it
has solutions
to everything, political, economic, social, etcetera.
That,
I think that struck a chord with many
people, especially the young generation,
who are feeling unfulfilled in this life and
feeling that, you know,
how they're how how they're living
or the way that they're being entertained or
what they're being exposed to,
is actually making them feel very empty. And
that maybe, you know, Islam can be there
to fill that void. What are your thoughts
on that? You know what? I I was
just thinking that when I went as a
as a a kind of Western journalist,
trying to get the best life for my
kids and buy them what I could, but
trying to resist it. When I went to
the West Bank and to Gaza, I remember
how kind of how much a part of
life children were. Number 1, they were everywhere.
It wasn't 2 kids. It was 5, 7,
9,
you know, kids, which was like, wow. There's
so many children here. And secondly, that I
remember at night, you'd be in the living
room, and the kids would not be running
around and interfering,
but they'd be listening and falling asleep
here and there. Right? They wouldn't necessarily be
be
go to your room. It would be you
can stay here and be part of this
conversation.
You can stay here and pour tea. You
can look after uncle,
and you can sleep on the floor and
stay up till 3 in the morning. It's
fine. But
there was such a structure
A social structure. Social structure
where and then I'd go home
to,
an increasingly
child led
society,
not child loving society, a child led led
society. Let me give you an example.
Can you imagine
saying to a 3 year old, darling, what
would you like for dinner?
That to me is so insane
because number 1, a 3 year old doesn't
know what's in the fridge. They don't know
how to cook. They don't know the options.
And, frankly, that is a really stressful situation
to put a child in.
You give the child the food.
They eat what's there.
Thanks be to God, or that was great,
mom, onto the next thing.
And we've become it makes you think of
that Hadith of the prophet, peace be upon
him, and I know there's different views on
this about the,
the the the
the
they'll give birth to to the maidservant, will
give birth to the master. The maidservant will
give birth to the master, and that's been
interpreted as the child taking control of society.
I've seen that.
I have I see that in in members,
you know, of my of my non Muslim
family. Like, woah. Okay. That's weird.
That's fine. And it makes the children unhappy
because they have no if you have no
upper
respect,
if you don't know that
you do as your mom says,
and you and you look after you look
after your mom and you do what your
dad says. You do what your mom says.
You love your grandmother.
If you're like, everyone just love me all
the time. I was a celebrity. That is
not healthy. Mhmm.
With no responsibilities,
That's the kind of toxic upbringing we're talking
about in the west.
Yeah. Talking about the social norms as well.
I remember going on
x space is live. So it's like a
live on on Twitter. Okay. And,
I remember 1,
a woman came,
came, and she was basically,
she asked me a question.
And the question was,
I don't understand.
Why are you all talking about caring only
for the children and and and the orphans?
What about the elderly?
Why why why aren't we helping the elderly
in,
in Gaza? Why is no one talking about
them?
So, I realized that she's living in the
United States,
and,
I told I I tried then to explain
to her
how the social norms in Islam and especially
in Palestine were different,
is that we don't have retirement homes.
The elderly are not we don't leave our
mothers and fathers once we turn 18,
and that
until now,
it's the grandfather and the grandmother, they're the
ones that are running the households.
And that they are very well respected,
and that they are being fed and treated
before even their own grandchildren and their grandkids.
And she was in shock
to what she heard. So maybe she was
thinking
there's a whole pile of,
you know,
abandoned elderly people who when you're told to
move from space to pace, space, everybody else
is doing this, and the elderly people are
just dropping by the wayside.
Because that in their society would happen,
perhaps. Maybe. Maybe. But,
it was definitely an eye opener, I think,
for her and many others who listened about
how the society functioned here.
SubhanAllah.
Also,
I remember that before going into the world
of social media,
I I was,
very much, busy going on different TV interviews,
radio stations, digital content,
web pages,
talking to people online about what's happening in
Gaza.
And then someone told me, you need to
be on social media.
I'm like,
what do you mean? It's like, you need
to be on TikTok, on Instagram. Like, aren't
those channels, like, about dancing and singing and
my opinion, like, childish things like entertainment.
Yeah. It's like, no. Those children
who are dancing and talking about about cats
are now saying free Palestine.
And they showed me evidence of people taking
some of my videos
and posting them on TikTok, having over a
1000000 views each. Wow. I'm like, what? This
is TikTok? Really?
So What do you make of that? What
does that meant to you in all of
this? It first it first taught me that
the demographic
of television
is different from the demographic of social media.
So we need to do both in parallel.
Right?
And we need to try to speak
at different time zones
to different people on different TV stations
for with of people to people with different
ideologies.
Right? Because one of my goals was to
get information
out to all around the world.
And not only about what was happening in
Gaza,
but it was also a form of dawah,
a form of informing them about a way
in which that they can help themselves in
this life and the hirah. See. And that's
what what what I what I picked up
on.
When I first came across your,
you know, what you were doing on on,
Instagram on NASA hospital. I'm like, there is
confidence
because I think that, you know, the West,
the the outside world is very confident, is
very,
happy,
is very,
content with seeing
the lack of success in the Muslim world
in their perception. They're they're okay with us
being victims.
A mother carrying a dead body, great. We'll
show that on TV.
But but where is our confidence? Where is
our steadfastness? Where is that reflected?
And that seems to be what has penetrated
through
the the dancing cats of TikTok.
And I remember,
yesterday when I was on Al Jazeera,
I told them that you guys here here
are are are creating history. Masha'Allah.
And you guys,
for months, you know,
people tune in to Al Jazeera to to
know the news.
But I reminded them and I reminded myself
that, unfortunately,
the system, the world order right now, does
not respect you if you are weak.
It doesn't give the rights to those who
deserve it. It gives you the right if
they believe that you are stronger and you
are gonna win.
So
always playing the,
the grief card or the pity card,
even though it exists. I mean, we are
going through a very hard time on the
ground,
but we still always need to show the
positive signs. We need to give hope
in a true way, you know, coming from
our Islamic beliefs
about what is happening there on the ground
and what the future holds.
You know,
these man made ideologies
rise and fall,
but Islam
always is there. Islam is a way of
life, is a religion for all people,
for all places, at all times. What's been
the most surprising
comment
or
interaction that you've had
with with some somebody
who's just found out about Palestine and about
Islam? What was one that you may wow.
They really got it all.
I had I had so many. I'm trying
to to recall
that basically, you
know,
Gaza has woken us up like we were
asleep before,
or we were in a state of,
you know, we were in this
state of coma.
Like
we used to live in the matrix.
Now we were all forced to take the
red pill
and wake up and see the world at
for for what it really is at.
I mean, we were taught for decades about
human rights and democracy and women's rights and
youth advocacy and,
you know, voting
and,
gender rights now.
And now this war came and all of
these groups that have been advocating for all
of these rights, and all of these NGOs,
they are not able to do anything
except
condemn on paper. And they are not able
to
and and their main funder,
you know, through the United States.
What are they doing in Gaza now? Like,
they I mean, it's that ideology, I think,
is is slowly dying.
And,
and people are looking
for,
okay, what is gonna fill that void up?
Right? And I think that seeing the character
of the people of Gaza
and and,
live Yeah. And and,
and listening
to, you know, people on the ground and
what they say and how they act.
I think that that in its own is
a form of dawah. SubhanAllah.
And may Allah
reward the people of Gaza for their steadfastness,
and may he ensure that
their reward continues until the day of judgement
because a lot of people, alhamdulillah, have accepted
Islam. A lot of Muslims have referred it
back to being practicing Muslims. Mhmm. A lot
of generations which we thought were lost
have gone from singing and dancing and doing
things that are, you know, that might be
harmful, like drugs and alcohol, etcetera, to learning
more about Islam,
to trying to do some advocacy for human
rights, you know.
And, SubhanAllah, is
Palestine has always been a holy land, has
always been a land of positive change.
Not only for
Palestinians
or the areas around it, but for the
whole
world. So I think that 2024,
inshallah,
will be the beginning of something great.
And when Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala loves someone,
He he makes them go through hardship because
He wants them to come back to Him
even stronger and prepare him for something even
bigger and better. You know what's funny? It's
a really simple question.
It's watching
this, and it's her it's a it's horrendous.
You know, we all find ourselves scrolling genocide
because you can't stop at every image.
You can't even as a human being, you
can't walk down a high street. There's a
limit to how many times you can say
salaam, salaam, salaam, salaam, salaam, salaam, salaam.
But but the what what has jumped through
the screen at us is
how would I react
in
on day 1? How would I react?
I'll tell you what happened to me last
night. Right? We were in, the Nablus restaurant
here in Doha, and a cannon went off.
I think they allow a cannon to go
off.
And I was like
I was like, it's an explosion. It's an
explosion. I'm like and it took me minutes
just to calm down from that.
It's fun. Right? Just from that. And that
was
I don't know why people like explosions is
a good thing, by the way. I'm may
I'm even averse to to to to,
fireworks these days. But the point being, how
would we react?
Would we be selfish?
Would we,
loot the shop and go, okay. I know
that guy's got a gold shop around the
corner. Let me be the 1st to grab
that. What do you do
when gold no longer has a meaning? Because
you can have a fistful of gold in
Gaza and not have dinner.
Correct.
And,
I think you bring up a very good
point about, you know, a lot of people
were telling him on Sur. I wish I
was there with you. I wish I was
there in Gaza.
You know, like I feel I'm doing nothing
here.
And my answer to them was,
why don't you wish that you are at
a time for the prophet sallallahu alaihi wa
sallam and be you know, you could have
been one of the Sahaba,
but you could also have been one of
the non believers.
You could have been one of the Munafiqeen.
You could have been,
you know, someone who
who
who has Quran written against them until the
the end of days.
So
right now
you are not able to be physically in
Hazrat,
But on the day of judgment, what are
you gonna say to Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala
when he asks you
what you did? Not only for Gaza, but
all the people around the world who are
suffering?
This is the question that we all need
to ask ourselves.
You might have been in Gaza and Allah
Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala, you know,
you won't you won't take it. Right? And,
SubhanAllah, you might leave the religion, for example.
You Allah
knows what you are capable of.
He knew that when it was my time
to leave Gaza and hopefully utilize me outside
of Gaza, Khalas. It's now written for me
that I leave Gaza.
Does that mean that, for example, I don't
have any regrets? SubhanAllah.
I I I always I I left Gaza
temporarily.
Insha'Allah,
we will go back to Gaza. We will
all go back to Jerusalem.
But there's a lot of work that needs
to be done, I think, also on the
outside,
and I think that we are just getting
started. And with the help and support
of people like yourselves, sister Lauren,
inshallah, I think we will get there. You
know what's interesting? You've touched on psychology there
and
Islam being the answer because it's it's a
way of life. It's what we do, but
it's also what we think and how our
heart reacts to to circumstances.
So,
there's so many great hadith which prove that
the prophet, peace be upon him, was not
only divinely inspired, which we know,
but that he had an insight into human
psychology that has been unmatched ever since. For
example,
just just one example is if is from
shaitan.
So so that word word if is to
be avoided
by Muslim believers.
Let's have have a look what if does.
If I hadn't left Gaza,
if only I'd been there that day, if
I had married that person,
if I had got that job, you're living
in the past,
and you're having this was was day in,
day out. And then the then the fear
of the future, if only I can go
there, well, well, you're here now. What you're
saying is be where you are now
and make a difference where you are. Don't
say, if only I was in Gaza, I'd
be really brave. Would you, really? Because you're
in a chair in comfort, and you're not
even brave.
You know? And it makes us question ourselves
and not and not be soft with ourselves.
I think there's a lot of this pop
psychology, which is like, you're fine as you
are. You're absolutely great. Just carrying as you
are. You you are you are magnificent. No.
You're not. You're probably a really rubbish person
right now.
Right? A lot of us are. We are.
We're all we're we're we're all a work
in progress.
But we have to look that in the
mirror and go, today, I'm gonna change.
And that's what Islam gives is a road
map to that change.
Alhamdulillah.
Sister Lauren,
you're a student of history. You're a student
of politics, of journalism.
Where do you see
Gaza, Palestine, the region, the world,
from an ideological perspective, a political
perspective? Like, where do we where do you
see us heading over the next 2 to
3 years? Gosh. That's fascinating. Once upon a
time, we'd be saying, in the next 10
years, as if we're confident.
And now we're saying 2 to 3 years,
and we're feeling like, oh, should should we
say 2 to 3 months? Right? Mhmm.
This this is a pivotal time for humanity.
There's no doubt about that.
The way the way that
that I see things through the Islamic lens
and also through my journalism lens is
Iraq. Our failure as an Ummah to unite
around Iraq
directly led to Libya.
And our failure to gather around Libya and
go, hang on a minute. America, stop it,
led to Yemen.
And our the ability
of the colonial forces to go, oh, but
you're Shia and you're and you're not Shia,
so why didn't you guys just fight each
other? And and we'll arm you, but not
you,
led to Syria.
And Syria
is the doorstep
of Gaza.
And so if we're looking at step by
step by step before I was Muslim, there
was a song that I put to some
Palestinian
images that I took, and it was by
a band called the Manic Street Preachers.
And the line in it still stays with
me, and I'm sure you can come up
with a better line from the Quran.
But it is, if you tolerate this,
then your children will be next.
If we tolerate this,
this is a the the horrible thing is
Gaza has been a testing ground. Palestine has
been a testing ground for 70 years for
new weaponry.
That's the sick truth of it. And if
the Zionists
are not stopped right now,
just what just watch. We're sitting here in
Doha. You know?
I am not terrified by that because this
is not our resting place.
Right?
This world, none of us are stopping here.
You know, the prophet, peace be upon him,
said it's like you're on a long journey,
and there's a palm tree, and you rest
for a little bit under the palm tree,
and then you've gotta get to the end.
So
we have to stop this
as a global community,
and we have to change ourselves. And if
and I I wanted to to discuss this
with you, actually,
the one the fear that I have, not
the one fear, but a
if I have a fear for the children
of Gaza, it's this,
that when
the killing
stops,
the west will go
helped by Muslims.
Let's send 20,000
psychologists in there and child psychiatrists
to cure them, and they will destroy those
kids
with a sick ideology because these people have
no idea why they're born and they don't
believe in God.
And I pray to Allah,
protect those those those children and young people
with the Quran.
We need to to, for our young
to stop praising the west.
K. And and I I want to hear
from our young,
not I want to go
to I I can't wait to get to
America,
but, oh my god. What is wrong with
them, and how can we help them?
You know, as someone who's who's who's crossed
the divide from one way of life
to becoming a Muslim, to saying shahada,
to submitting to Allah.
I I don't want to destroy England. I
wanna help
because because I see how broken people are.
Yes. There
are something like 2,000,000
children in the UK living with alcoholic parents.
My parents were alcoholics.
That's a horrible way to be brought up.
That is
intensely difficult.
Subhanallah.
And so and and you have drug parents,
and you have and there's no
spirituality.
There's there's a saying in London
that in
London,
you,
you, what is it? You die at 18
and you're buried at 70.
In other words, your spirituality
is dead by the time you're 18, but
you live you're a walking corpse until you're
70.
Because without spirituality, without a belief, without without
looking after other human beings, without praising God,
you have no cause, and yet our young
people are still, because of the media,
because of Hollywood,
thinking these are great places. I'm gonna make
a new life over in Hollywood. Hollywood is
full of drug addicts living on the road.
It's a tragic, tragic place.
It's a slave system, the way that they
make us go into
career,
etcetera.
Thank you very much for giving us time
here. Thank you all for your time. Inshallah,
we meet again, and salaam alaykum.
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