Channel: Irshaad Sedick
Bismillah al Rahman al Rahim al hamdu Lillahi Rabbil aalameen or salat wa salam ala BL mursaleen. So Ed now and ebina Maulana Muhammad sallallahu alayhi wa sallam early he was happy as you met in Assalamu alaykum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh obeys and thanks to all those who are behind him with the either Jesus peace blessings and salutations upon our Master and exemplo interview Muhammad sallallahu alayhi wa ala early he was happy he was on them, and then rasa Helen or haben become, and hamdulillah Al Hamdulillah. We thank Allah to Allah for making us from among the living from among the Muhammad sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, and for granting us our health. And we take this
opportunity to make dua for all of those who are suffering from any form of illness or disease that Allah to Allah alleviate your pain and your suffering. And once you complete Shiva, and for all of those who are suffering from pain, of any sort, whether that be emotional, psychological, and physical, we ask Allah to Allah, remove your pain and grant you ease and relief for all of our brothers and sisters who have passed on and left this world. We pray that Allah azza wa jal grants them gender to feel those and make the kubu the graves gardens of Paradise amin Europa Allah mean
I am honored to host this panel once again it is an information session on COVID-19 vaccines. I welcome all of our viewers and our listeners on voc 91.3 Facebook page as well as the snad Academy YouTube channel and Facebook page among other platforms as well as gay as well
hello sir Hello and welcome I know some people are still glued to the screens with the rugby at this moment is no problem with that. But do join us as soon as you can inshallah she she the information she the link with your family, friends and loved ones, so that they may benefit as well. I'm going to first and foremost welcome all of the panelists all of the guests this evening and the after, after this brief introduction by each of them in the lighter Island why they are on this panel panel. Then we are going to speak a bit about the topic and what it is that we are going to do tonight evening. So first and foremost in no particular order, of course. With me in studio we have
Milena, Dr. Yusuf Patel, and I saw her in Santa Monica rahmatullah wa rahmatullah. Whoever they go to Milan, it was shared to our viewers, and to be respected panelist hamdulillah always good to be here, and to be involved in such a noble program. And look, I'm not going to to be divert our time here. But the reason why I felt that this program was necessary or to be part of this program was to shed light and to provide some clarity on the misinformation that has been disseminating out within society and within our public spaces with regards to COVID-19. And with regards to the vaccine, so as a clinician, someone involved in hospital and someone who has a background in Islamic Studies, I
felt that it would be
good and productive if I joined the panel,
just circolo Heron, Marina, Dr. Yusuf Patel. And again, as I said, in no particular order, I'm going to bring them up as I see them on the screen. Dr. Shamim gem delay SMR lei comb Rahmatullahi de la obrigado. And all of our panelists will just start from him and then move around the screen each other than this will have the shamima Samaniego while he comes with Rebecca to Magana. Again, thank you for the opportunity to shed some light and some
facts that are peer reviewed and checked in real in in the in the environment of misinformation that we're living in. I think it's really important that us as professionals in our discipline bring to light these information and also and more importantly for people who have a genuine fear and of the vaccination rollout that's happening right now in you know in the in the in the storm of misinformation, it's important to establish the facts and she can put the opportunity
bodak lo fi calm Dr. Shamim and then the next in line we have Dr. Yasmin macadam, Bray and Asante como Santa Monica what I see now only qualicum Silla Morocco the library at which you can so much for including me feel a bit overwhelmed the only one with the scarf on this panel
hamdulillah so basically mentioned anything about that while we accidentally unmuted
Okay, so basically, can you hear me? Yes. Bismillah Okay, so I'm a private GP. I work in private practice and how many I've been seeing patients from the start of the pandemic last year. I think we have about two
Two months in now. And I've been basically working in primary key, managing patients, diagnosing, testing and then having to deal with the impact of the virus with sort of as a family practitioner with my patients but then very recently also on the personal front with family members being affected by by COVID and myself as well being affected by COVID-19 as well. So just to bring some light into what impact this virus is actually had on a very basic level, inshallah hope to make a beneficial contribution. just
great to have you on the panel and then Dr. Zamir Bray. She's got Samira within it's give him the screen for a moment. That is me the Santa Monica. Welcome Salaam, la Baraka to Malina and the panelists she can so much for the opportunity, really looking forward to this evening session. Shalom Allah guide us to be a benefit to the community from which we come.
And my role is, I serve as a advisor to government in different roles. I've been working with Dr. Curran closely last year on the COVID response in the Western Cape, and this year,
supporting the national Department of Health in the vaccination program and look forward to the questions and concerns raised by the listeners here this evening. So we can help them as best as possible charlo.
Zakouma Hi, I'm Dr. Samir and it's good to have you with us once again. And then of course, we have Dr. sadi Kadeem as I wanted to get to Dr. sodic while it was alive what occurred to to yourself to the panelists and to the listeners. I'm the Chief of Operations Western Cape Department of Health and I think this session is really quite important to help shed some light on some of the misinformation that is, you know, out in the community so she can for that
Hello nice and sweet In short, Mashallah. And then of course, the one and the only doctor selling Parker. I don't know if if it's befitting you know, to give Dr. Salim an opportunity to introduce himself I feel it's a bit redundant we all know him and love him. He's a Hydra doctor is a community doctor. He's going to tell you more about himself inshallah later father mascara.
Bill over a Catherine shukran once again for the opportunity to join this program. Why are we doing this little thing back two days ago, three days ago when the voice of the cape on their Facebook base page said they had never terminates another notices as they read on that particular day, mostly due to COVID it's still happening and I think we still in for a tough ride in for the next few weeks. So I think even if one person benefits it you there have been a project worthwhile embarking on a GP in LCS level, and also do quite a lot of travel related work. shukran
apologists echo Hello. Hi, Ron, and she can introduce to the panelists as well. So as for the topic tonight inshallah This is a question and answers information session. This is not pro Vax anti Vax. This is not like the vaccine no matter what you must take the vaccine. This is not shoving information down people's throats. This is not the debate. So none of the rules of any of the aforementioned type of engagements are going to apply yet. This is simply a group of experts in the fields coming together to answer some pertinent questions that we've gathered. Through our consultations with doctors and what they felt were the most frequently asked questions pertaining to
the vaccine specifically, and related matters right now. So we have compiled these questions. I'm sitting here with the list of 21 questions of Ohio law, we are somewhat doubtful that we will even make it through our own questions because they are really important questions. We have set certain limitations for ourselves as far as time per question etc. And this obviously means that they will probably not be much time to take questions from viewers and listeners specifically, we are hoping that your questions will be covered within the questions that we've compiled with me like to Allah that said, this is not this is not to dissuade you from posting your questions. You may post
questions you may post comments, as long as you are not rude in sha Allah, and you know, you follow the decorum of a Muslim and the etiquette of our dialogue as Muslims, when no problem we will not permit any sort of personal ad hominem attacks. We will not permit any form of posting of links or other websites, etc. This is simply an information session for those who genuinely have questions. And these questions need answers. It's not that the information is not out there. But, you know, what we've seen so far, is that when the information comes from our own, our own
Children, our own mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, our own GPS, our own experts in our own community in we feel a sense of trust and safety be malaita Allah because just as we wouldn't wish bad for others, these brothers and sisters of ours, whom we call doctors, they wouldn't wish bad upon us upon ourselves and upon themselves and their families behind the law. So for that reason, we are hosting a program of this nature. Of course, there's one panelist who is sorely missed and not please India, who would have been based on past experience and that's our late teacher and the Mufti of the Muslim Judicial Council. Mufti Mohammed aha Quran we pray that Allah Allah grant him and all
deceased a high place in Jenna and Grantham ease in the in the cover. And I mentioning this specifically because my teacher exerted himself in the last years of his life, the last one or two years of his life, pertaining to this topic, more than any other topic, the issue of how to deal with the pandemic, how to deal with the situations presented by the pandemic, and that we found ourselves in and till the very end SubhanAllah. Some of the last official that I think that we have have is happens to be in relation to this topic. And this is not because he had nothing to do. The list of demands, were great. But this topic took priority and for that reason, we ask Allah to Allah
accept his endeavors and grant him through these indivision through the good that he intended the by a high place in Jana. I mean, you're Oh boy, and I mean, so wish me luck. We will now commence in shot hello to Allah. The first question is for Dr. Salim Parker. And I will bring him up on screen inshallah. Dr. Sandy Parker. And the question is a simple request to give us some updates on the current COVID-19 stats in the Western Cape Bismillah. Doc, this bill, I wonder, I know, let's first look at the global picture. And 200 million cases later tells us that this is a real pandemic 4.2 million deaths over the last 20 months tells us that this is something to be taken seriously and
that it is real. So when you come to South Africa, we've had over 2.4 million cases already, we've had we approaching 75,000 dates confirmed once they are still debatable dates that might have been due to cover it might not be. But these are the documented ones in South Africa. So we're sitting with a real problem as far as COVID-19 is concerned. Now, yes, in South Africa, the numbers are declining. From a peak of about 28 30,000 a day of a few weeks ago, we sitting at about 11,000 cases a day. So the numbers in South Africa total is coming down. But that doesn't really give a clear picture of what's happening the Western Cape, because we in the Western Cape, the pandemic. And the
third wave that we experiencing now started later than that, in the housing housing experience it initially, the Western Cape is now reaching its peak, I'm not certain and the government departments are actually certain with it is speaking, it seems to be like that. But the number that we are seeing for the last two days of 4000 plus cases per day, is really a worrying trend. And the reason for that is we'll have 4000 cases today. But those people are though 15% of them are going to need hospitalization in about a weak style. And a couple of days later, they're gonna start dying. So the numbers first come as a number of cases, then a week later, it starts as the hospitalizations and
then after that people start dying. Already our hospitals have already we know that the number of Genesis lockups already mentioned in the Muslim community, but in the wider community as well, the 100 deaths due to COVID. The day currently in the Western Cape tells us that we are in the midst of the real third wave, and we cannot let our guards down. So it is still time for us to take cognizance of the fact that we are really going to be seeing more hospitalizations, we're going to be seeing more deaths. And we must be prepared for that that hopefully try to mitigate the potential worsening of those of those of the adult scenario. So that's just in a nutshell is what's happening
worldwide, countrywide, as well as locally in the Western Cape fotografico Xochimilco run Dr. Salim we appreciate your input on in that regard. The next question is for Dr. sodic. Decided Kareem, could you give us a brief update on the vaccine rollout the program in the Western Cape specifically, how is that progressing? When can we expect the vaccine to be rolling out to the under 35 category and so forth?
Mila young Be sure to let me just maybe just on the last question with Dr. Parker, just to add, in addition to the 100, over 100, this daily, we also have around 340 hospital admissions on a daily basis. I mean, this pandemic is still very real. And I think people must remember that, as we have the conversation about vaccines. So as we go into vaccine rollout and vaccine progress, as everybody knows, we have begun to 35 Plus, more recently, on the on the first end, we already have vaccinated 1.3 million people in the Western Cape. So hamdulillah is going actually very well, the rollout continues. We have public and private sites in the province we just received on Friday in additional
doses of the vaccine. So for the next couple of weeks, our vaccine supply line is also looking quite good.
I think having having said that, I think one of the issues that we obviously, and it will be come up later in the course of the conversation, I'm sure is the number of people registering. So I think there's still quite a bit of work that we would like to do in this area. If I look at the registrations, we currently have over 1.2 million people who have registered. But if one breaks that down, there are some areas where the registrations are still fairly low. To have those ages in the Metropole, for example, we a number of people will be on the show or hotel from on the clairefontaine sub district and also in the Mitchell's plane sub districts. So if one looks at the
overall registration in those two sub districts is only sitting at 25%. In other words, 25% of eligible people are interested in those areas. And I think that might have a lot to do with the vaccine hesitancy and also the kinds of questions that inshallah we'll hope to address during the course of this program. So in summary, the vaccine program at the moment is going really well. We have sufficient supply of doses. We also started recently, as people would have seen vaccinating the homeless and other other art to get populations. And we pushing quite hard on the vaccine rollout in the province, you can
just echo Ferran dr Sadiq we did appreciate your input in this regard, and we'll speak to you later Later inshallah particolare effect. The next question is for Dr. Yes mean that Yasmin macadam, the Rosa manga thorns tonight, I'm really lucky to have you on board.
I do believe that you are still recovering from COVID. And your family was affected as well. Could you give us a brief synopsis of your experience, your family's experience, and in fact, in general, you know, I mean, here tonight, we're going to be speaking about stats, and we're going to be speaking about numbers and so on, in all likelihood. And unfortunately, this is the cold way, you know that these things are usually approached in but the reality in the ground is that people are dying. In the week past I received a message that I didn't verify. But it was it was publicly spread as well as from the voices of the cape that the voice of the cape had 25 Genesis, I didn't actually
listened to the janaza announcements on that day, but they see 25 and that was like apparently a record
for Cape Town. And each person is of course, somebody's loved one. And we've lost one of our panelists, mosquito hacker on to this default disease, and so many others and people have been affected. Can you give us an understanding of this before we move into all the stats and numbers further, Xochimilco? Sure can so much between the Iraq manual, you know, we just ask Allah to guide us with whatever we say and what it will be do. As medical practitioners, we have this a manner that we need to try and act mostly always promote the preservation of life. And within that, we hope that the decisions that we make, and the advice we give will actually fulfill that intention. So
basically, you know, just the impact, I think we really see the impact of this, this pandemic Now, within this third wave now, so, you know, if I could just give an example of one of my very dear patients, they've been my patient for the last 15 years, I've seen the babies being born and grow up and so on. So the husband and the wife developed COVID, about a month ago, the husband is in his early 50s. And the wife is I don't think she's even 50 yet. The husband in as Salim said A week later, he ended up in hospital. And then subsequent to that on a ventilator. At the time when he was being ventilated. His wife phoned me on a Sunday afternoon to say Doc, I can't breathe, but I can't
go to hospital. I have two kids at home and I'm alone with him. These children are aged in and I think two little girls and I basically had to try and find a family member in order to get the kid safe folding ambulance and pray that she's going to get the space in a hospital. And at that stage the ambulance had said that most of the hospitals are under divert. They did get into a bed for her but unfortunately it was not at the same time.
fertilizer High School. And so basically she was in, put onto high flow oxygen. And in the time when she was in ICU, her husband then dies of COVID. She's in a separate hospital having to year that her husband died. And also to, to basically deal with the grief of not being able to be there for her daughters with the loss of the Father. So behind Allah, and I just think that you know, just that one scenario out of so many, many scenarios, so many people are facing that exact same sort of thing, how traumatizing my staff not have been, and still ease now how many lashes made it out of hospital, but she just messaged me now to say that her daughter is constantly you know, they crying,
they traumatized. They, they devastated by the loss of the Father, and also just the whole traumatic events surrounding that teeth, and her hospitalization. And, you know, if you just think about the impact of that I myself, my father is in hospital with COVID at the moment, today is Day 25. in ICU, that is huge. I mean, just the fact that we cannot see him and he cannot see us. And knowing the type of pain that he's going through the discomfort that he is feeling while he is in hospital, I cannot explain to you how that impacts my mom who is at home, waiting for him, her she feels as if her life is stopped because her husband is in hospital. And she cannot do for him, you know the
impact that it has on my kids and on all of the grandchildren, you know, the thought of losing the grandparent, and then myself having succumb to COVID in that same time that my dad was in hospital, my husband, and then subsequently all of my kids as well. So you know, you just what happened they easy is that what you find is that with COVID, one person gets infected. And because it's Delta wave, this delta variant is so contagious, you find that as much as you want to isolate and you try your best, everybody now seems to become infected. So that means essentially that people can be out of work and sort of out in isolation for sometimes up to a month, because of a staggered infectivity
by family members and then having to extend your quarantine time, your isolation time and so on. And you can just imagine what that thing does to a family who, you know financially, what what that would do to the family with the Father cannot go out and actually work and provide for the family. Other than that, apart from the financial implication, the the isolation and what mental impact that has on the family as a whole not being able to go out the children not being able to go to school, I myself felt like you know, in the time that I was so sick, I couldn't sit with my children and actually get the work done. So the loss of school days in school time as well. It's huge. It's
absolutely huge, you know, and what I'm seeing a lot in my practice now is is the mental trauma that patients are having to suffer from all of the time, most of our time goes into counseling patients, when they get that diagnosis having to hold their hand throughout it. So you're constantly on your phone, giving advice, trying to calm people down, helping them medically trying to keep them out of hospital trying to find oxygen, you know, the list is just sort of so long, if you think about the impact that it has on the household, and then, you know, having to then counsel patients when the easy loved one that has actually died, or a prolonged stay in hospital. So you know that the
devastating effect that this virus has on on family life is so huge, and we are probably going to have to deal with that for the next few years to try and mend whatever scars have been caused by this virus. And for that reason, you know, it is so important that we try and do our utmost to prevent getting COVID. So by whatever means whether it is via the vaccine and our hamdulillah I had the vaccine in February, and I am so thankful that I had that vaccine, because having a COVID Now I could feel that hamdulillah I didn't suffer any complications, and neither did my husband, because of maybe being a little bit stronger and having some antibodies on board. So in that way, you know,
taking the means in order to prevent the severity or the impact of this disease is what I think is so important, other than just that also just trying to re sort of affirm with people to really take responsibility men, you know, there's so many people out there that still don't believe that COVID is real and go around looking around, not taking the persecution not isolating when the Gita when they are in contact with someone in the household and then going out and spreading it even further. I often say
to people, are you willing? And are you prepared to live with the fact that you could have infected someone, and you could have actually caused for someone to end up in hospital and even a death of someone. So those are real things that we as a community need to really think about. And as Muslims to think that we do not even want to feel responsible that we could have been the reason why somebody ended up with this virus or even died from it. So I could go on all night, but I know the time be sure to just as a synopsis that is just a summary of the impact that it's had so far. Just Mellotron, yourself and your family completely fine, as well as all of those suffering from COVID.
And all other illnesses. Of course, we know that. It's not, it's not an easy time. SubhanAllah and everybody has lost a loved one, or has a loved one who's seriously ill. So we are in each other's eyes. And that's all that we can do in Charlotte data. And that's a lot that's not belittling in any way, because that's our most powerful weapon. Now Linares best? Dr. Bray, this next question is for you in Charlotte, Diana, how has the vaccine roll out affected other countries? and South Africa? In terms of stats, like, for example, is all these statistics showing the efficacy or the statistics reflecting with the vaccine is effective? Can you give us some insight on that?
Yes, absolutely. Mallanna. And, you know, just to reiterate the very important point you made earlier, I think it's easy for us to talk about the numbers. These are individuals, these are family members, these are loved ones.
It's It is important for us to look at the numbers. So I'm going to try and do that in three minutes. inshallah. So just in terms of the vaccination rollout, this is the largest vaccination program in history.
The world has already delivered 4.3 7 billion doses in 180 countries. based on the current rate of vaccination, we will likely reach 8 billion vaccinations before the end of this year. It could in fact, be more as the world becomes flush with vaccines, particularly our continent of Africa.
We they are still being constrained supply of vaccines. In terms of South Africa's picture, eight and a half million doses administered and about 6.8 million individuals already vaccinated. So an important question mowlana, you asked, which is what's the impact of vaccines? And some people may have seen this graph. But really just to point out, what is this graph telling us? So this is a graph that represents a city in in Canada. And what one can see over time, obviously, the vaccination programs really only started, you know, at the start of this year, particularly in the developed countries, one can see that the proportion of unvaccinated individuals being admitted to
is in fact, even in the middle of a third wave is this great proportion of a year. So the bulk of patients being admitted to ICU are in fact, unvaccinated. This picture is mirrored by exactly what we are seeing in South Africa to and I'll show this in a couple of different ways.
This particular graph demonstrates the impact of the UK vaccine rollout program on the on this axis is the number of days into the wave. So this was the second wave in the earlier part of this year. And this is the current cap the more recent third wave, so this is 40 days, 45 days in 50 days.
The bar on this side demonstrates the deaths per 10 million individuals
during the second wave, unvaccinated and unhandled. During the third wave, we see less than 5% less than the amount of death that was experienced the same population, same geography, but in an unvaccinated population. Another way to think about this is if we take at the peak of an epidemic, the force of transmission of infection, around 500 100,000 or 5000 per million on the left. What I've done is I've demonstrated the number of infections we will get in an unvaccinated population and a vaccinated population. More or less we will get 5000 infections in the gray in a million unvaccinated. We will get 750 admissions just to say I couldn't do 750 people but everything is
multiplied by 100 on both side so that it's equal. We will get
150 deaths per 1 million unvaccinated in the 1 million vaccinated population. If we have a vaccine that has a protection of 80% against mild disease, and 90% against severe disease, and they similar to the vaccines being used in this country Alhamdulillah, we have strong vaccines,
we only get 1000 infections approximately in the gray, we will likely have around 75 admissions and 1.5 days, which I have not demonstrated because the scale is multiplied by 100. And so the point is, and I really want to draw your attention to the bottom, which is the difference the vast difference in the amount of people that will die and be hospitalized.
With due to being protected from the vaccine. Lastly, some good data the Department of Health is presented to our public to to help them understand what this means some differentiation in benefit between males and females. But very simply, vaccinating 83 men over the age of 60 will prevent about one admission, and vaccinating point that it in 25 men will prevent one day, this is based on the data and I've put the references here inshallah, if anyone wants to follow up, we will be happy to do so.
So, well, I will I will stop there. And then back to you.
Does that Kamala hold on Dr. Dre. That is very insightful. We thank you for your time in if it's that you put into this particular film and the next question is for Dr. Shamim jam today. So when it comes up to Shamim,
there are many concerns about side effects, right. I myself was concerned, I mean, it's something to be concerned about you taking a new medication, you're nervous, there's so much information going around so many reports. Some of the comments were again, you know, as I said at the beginning, I gave the sort of rules and regulations. But some of the comments I leave the even though it's sort of of that type of nature, and it was something that was going around in social media about some hectic side effects is reported, or at least claimed on social media. So one doesn't know what to believe in what not to believe at least that's what the majority
is currently facing. So what are some of the side effects, the adverse side effects and even deaths that have been reported? How do we, how do we make sense of this? What do we what do we know to be true in relation to this? And then, you know, are these at any connected to the vaccines as claimed? Then, you know, I know this is a bit of a tough one. But objectively now with the doctors and scientists are wrong about safety. Are they now feeling that you know, the perhaps made some mistakes or perhaps too hasty, or are they still adamant that they are in fact safe? is when
Mr. Malina? The short answer to your question is new. And allow me to quickly make a distinction between a minor side effect and he is adverse event. So you know, when you take a vaccine or a medication, it is very common that you will experience what we call minor side effects. Okay, these are all symptoms. For example, with the COVID vaccine, you will develop flu like symptoms that may come with the headache that may come with fever that may come with body pain and the doji. And these will normally only last between 24 to 48 hours. And these are actually good to have because it is an indication that the vaccine is actually working and is triggering something in your immune system,
this is producing some form of inflammation, that is a sign that the vaccine is working. And people will have the side effect and will experience the side effect to evolve and decrease. Some of them will muscle people, most people will have their mind and some people will have them like to moderate effect. But the uncommon and the serious side effects are the one that should always be reported. And these are generally known as serious adverse events. And these are the ones that require your medical attention or even admission in hospital. And in general health duties, watch out for adverse events that have a proven association or link we immunization but also for other adverse events that
may theoretically occur but have not yet been observed. So I am basing my report on clinical trial data or different phases safety and efficacy. And also and more importantly on the massive number of people now that we can have reports from who have received the vaccine globally around the world. So we knew
That there are different forms of adverse events used adverse event that are being reported. Right now I'm going to touch on like the most frequent one. So we have anaphylaxis, which is genuinely induced,
as an allergy to one of the components of the vaccine, but not the main ingredient, engineer only. This is why we actually have a waiting period for everybody who takes the vaccine generally, it's 15 minutes of observation for people who don't have any history of allergy, wonderful access to medication and in vaccine, and it is a bit longer 30 to 40 minutes or 45 minutes to an hour for people who have experienced that before depending on the setting. And right now,
I am going to give you the global statistics that are out and what are some of the adverse events that are reported with some of the vaccine in use. And one of the doctors could probably lead to touch on the statistics that we have reported in South Africa. So for the ammonia vaccine, which is Pfizer that is being used in South Africa, for 80 million, vaccinated individual, there have been reports of 12.6 cases of an inflammation of the heart that is either mayuko diabetes, which is an inflammation of the heart muscle opia record itis, which is an inflammation of the heart lining. And for the Johnson and Johnson and AstraZeneca vaccine. And I'm talking about AstraZeneca, because we
knew from the minister's declaration yesterday that they are considering getting approval for SARS in a couple years in South Africa as well. These are all the viral vector vaccine, there have been reports of Guillain Barre syndrome that have been triggered dues, or like very few dues, or 1.2 per million vaccinated individual folders to vaccines. And there have been reports of blood clots, and these have been 8.1 cases of blood that have been investigated. I'm not talking about link now I'm talking about investigated for a million people who have received this vaccine. And when you put that in perspective, we knew that COVID has a death rate and fatality of around 1% for the logo for
the people who get infected with the virus. So this means for every million people who get COVID 10,000 of them will die. So now compare this to the risk, which have not even been proven yet over how 12.6 cases for the Pfizer vaccine and 8.1 cases for the Johnson and Johnson vaccine. So no, I don't think that we will hone in our assertion that the vaccine will use, we will not use any form of serious adverse event. And there are all different platforms right now across different countries. Even in South Africa, for example, Safa has made up by Eva now an app that's called med safety application, which can be downloaded on the on the on the Google Play Store and the App Store
for iPhone users. And we also have a case report location information form that can be downloaded and nicd website where people can report any form of serious adverse events that they have encountered. And these are thoroughly investigated as to which
wasn't muted, sorry about that particular v conductor Shamim john delay, for coming,
for commenting on the side effects, and also how people can report them and I will share those details.
In fact, I'll share them right now in the light diner, and people can see for themselves.
This is the app that Dr. Shameem was referring to.
Obviously, you could just pause the video or get this afterwards but he did say it was on the Google Play Store. So the our ways and means of reporting adverse events, and Allah knows best as echolocate. And again Dr. Showing generally the next question is for V mon in a doctor in studio, good colleague and
a good doctor Mashallah. And we hope and pray that they'll look good on to you, long life and preservation to continue the good work that you do. We ask Dr. Yusuf Patel How has the third wave in other words you know, to be more specific without the variant manifested itself based on his experience in a hospital so in other words, Has he seen a difference really from the second wave the first day of and now of course the third wave Bismillah Smirnoff Manoj Rahim. shukran manana for that. So just not to to go into too many discussions but
To answer the question,
I work in various emergency units within the Western Cape. And arguably, I work within a hospital chain that sees probably the most amount of patients in the emergency rooms. And I have a background in emergency medicine a postgraduate degree. So over the past seven to eight years, I've been working in the emergency rooms. And since COVID, emerged within South Africa during the first two waves. And now with our third wave, there's definitely been a clinical increase of patients coming through, particularly within the waves. We discussed our experiences with regards to the first wave and the second wave and how it was a novel experience for many of us to cope with the stress and the
fact that so many patients were coming in. But I think what this current third wave, especially over the past month, you could even extend it to two to five weeks, five to six weeks, we've seen an increase in the amount of patients coming through to the emergency room that have been severely ill. They've been hypoxic presenting with pneumonia on the X rays. And much of this is attributed to the fact that the Delta variant, the current variant that is spreading around the world, and particularly in South Africa, is more severe, compared to the previous variants. So we've definitely seen many patients come through, what is concerning to me is the fact that the hospitals are really
struggling. And as I said, I work in plus minus about four to five different emergency rooms in the various hospitals. And each of these emergency rooms, over the past four to five weeks, have been inundated, inundated with patients presenting with a specific clinical syndrome of hypoxia, and severe respiratory disease. Now, many people will say, you know, this is just the flu, this could be other diseases that are being misdiagnosed, or whatever else. But the reality is that we as the clinicians at the hospital, are seeing this. And therefore I think we have the respectful right to be able to share our experiences and our observations to the public. My my message to everyone out
there is that we need to take this current wave extremely seriously, people are struggling to be seen within the emergency rooms because the ICU are completely full. And the wards
awful as well. Many of the other wards within the hospitals, which we use for patients that were coming out of elective surgeries have now been converted in to more stable COVID wards. So patients who perhaps just need basic nasal prong oxygen, are being placed in those wards. So now you can imagine the domino effect that it's having on the healthcare system, that many elective procedures that need to take place or not being able to take place. And what this does, ultimately, when the full chain within the hospital is full, and resources are limited. That means that patients that are presenting to the emergency room, the first place of contact, right remain in the emergency room,
critically ill waiting for beds in the hospital, to receive the necessary medication and intervention. And then what that does is that patients that muscle be seen that are probably being seen by the GPS, or that are critically ill at home and that have come in, they end up waiting within the emergency rooms. And you know, this is not an exaggeration from my side. And I'm sure many of my colleagues specifically on this panel and those perhaps listening out there. And those that are working can agree with me in saying that we've had patients wait more than 10 to 15 hours with suspected COVID or confirmed covid. critically ill waiting to be seen by us in the emergency
rooms, not because we complacent not because we lazy not because we don't want to see them just that we don't have any place or resources to see them within the hospital to provide them with the care that they need. And what's an interesting point that I just want to share, just to end off is that many of these cases that I've seen personally and that my colleagues have seen
are patients who are not vaccinated. Right, there have been a couple of patients that have come in that have received maybe one vaccination within a period of a week. Right. So obviously that did not confer upon them enough immunity in order to perhaps battle the disease. But most of the patients, the majority of them that we have seen are currently seeing or those who have not been vaccinated. Right. And I think that's an important point. The various panelists before me have obviously given the stats, but just from a clinical
perspective, I want to share with the audience out there that we are seeing many people that have not been vaccinated with being partially vaccinated come in, and I think that's something that that we need to take away.
Seriously, I know there was a comment of someone that said that the tests are not accurate. So how do we know that the patients that are coming in actually have COVID? This is all a lie. It's an exaggeration. My simple response to that is that we see a clear symptomatology, we see a clear presentation, as I mentioned earlier of patients who are hypoxic, that have various features on the imaging, and on the biochemical makeup. And just clinically, we are seeing something very similar across the board with patients coming in. Again, as a doctor, someone within the medical field, I think we have the humble right to say that we understand what's happening, that we can see that this
is just not a flu, or some type of moderate disease when the patients present with severe critical disease, but rather that patients are presenting with what we know is COVID-19 it's a reality and it's something that we are all facing
to Zakouma Hold on. Milena, Dr. Yusuf Patel, who is a scholar we stem as well as Dr. Mashallah, so I hope maybe they can trust you, doctor. I don't know. Seems like all doctors are bad guys these days. Well, lo Anna. I hope that's not true. Dr. Salim, you've been you've been too quiet. Let me bring you on on board. So Monica Hello, dedicato. It's good to have you again, Dr. Salim paka. Doc, if he has been, and continues to be fake news going around about people dying and adverse reactions and so on. So they are fake stories getting it out. But the There have also been genuine cases of people experiencing adverse effects. When when does one such as yourself, when does a doctor encourage
people to go and take the vaccine?
Is it that everyone should just go and take is every single person who falls within the you know, the respective age categories? encouraged to take the vaccine? In Arabic, we would say lol it luck, you know, across the board. Are the exceptions to that. Is this a gamble between Okay, should I take my chances with COVID? Or take my chances with a vaccine? Over to you, Doc Bismillah. Okay, Bismillah R. Rahman r Rahim. You know, again, what we can use only is the knowledge that we have. And just to add on to what Dr. Yusuf mentioned previously about, some people say this is a bad flu. Now, if I have the 30 years as as a general practitioner can't see the difference between flu which
I know people will get over within two to three hours, two to three to seven days, compared to COVID. Where they have clearly a lack of oxygen, we call that a toxic, which we can measure which we never found in 29 years before that I used to treat patients who had flu, then No, they didn't I don't have an answer to someone who comes up with with a with a question as to how you can do this to meet you to know they are completely different entities, we can measure the one and we can clearly eliminate this is not through if we put on the oximeter that everyone is aware of nowadays, and measure that someone's oxygen, which we call oxygen saturation levels is less for example at one
today of 77. So they know that just to put it in perspective as far as other diseases are concerned, as far as who should be vaccinated, firstly know when the first way we test we were very concerned about those who are most at risk, and we do what we call a stratification. The elderly were clearly dying way more as a proportion compared to the younger ones. So when the vaccine became available, and we know that it was limited, we had to decide who was the most worthy of taking it and who was most deserving of taking it. So besides the healthcare personnel, we're faced with the disease on a daily basis in a world vaccinated first in South Africa. The the most vulnerable happened initially
with the first and second wave to be the elderly, specially the elderly, with underlying medical conditions such as diabetes, such as high blood pressure, and those who have had other medical conditions such as asthma and so forth. So those were the ones that we targeted initially, and that is a general practitioner, strongly advised to take the vaccine and explain to them Yes, everything in life has side effects. Our patient of mine takes 20 Bernardo stays a chance that that person who takes a drug that is very common and very easily available can actually go into liver failure and die. That is a known side effect of paracetamol, Pernod is that we are used to. Now similarly, a
vaccine, no one will ever say that there's no side effects. But what are the benefits, benefits here for the elderly, for example, was that the percentage of them passing away in ICU or 70%. So if we can prove
With that type of disease setup of the statistics, those were the people we initially wanted to be vaccinated. But we also now finding that younger people are getting infected. And this is more evident with a Delta variant. So as the as more vaccines became available, we advised the younger patients, especially those with the disease of lifestyle, I mean, we have plenty of 2030 year olds who are diabetic, plenty of 20 or 30 year olds who are overweight and have hypertension. And they might not qualify for the vaccine yet, but we would encourage them to do to take it really becomes available. And what are we armed with, we have some information we do, for example, for those who
have the Johnson and Johnson vaccine, I mean, a study came out just a couple of days ago with the 300,000 of South Africans who have followed up for a month. So we can use those statistics and say are those 300,000 people are to the Johnson and Johnson vaccine, they were only 50 CDC rates, of which only one was a serious allergic reaction, which we call anaphylaxis. So we do have information that we can see. And this is different to the information that goes around on social media. For example, we all are aware of the four family members of the opera family that everyone knows about. Us, there's a post was put out that went viral, which said they died after taking the the jab.
To use the words that was posted. Women, my partner was involved and in advising at least one of those family members is currently looking after the daughter for another disease. None of those four took the vaccine, all four of them died of COVID-19, one of them was 31 years old. So clearly, there is a difference between fake news of which that is one example. And well established published facts of which the study that I was speaking about now, it's just been, it's a good example. And what it urged the public to do, especially medical personnel, because it's been medical personnel actually forwarded sets fake news about this for family members who passed away suppose Did you get the
vaccine, please, before you do before you move forward, something verified, whatever we as doctors say, we've got the facts to back us up. So if you receive a post of someone that suddenly passed away, two seconds after taking the vaccine, it is theoretically possible, but it is highly unlikely. So if you receive those type of post verified, find the source of it, and then forward it if you feel that it is appropriate to do so. But just don't press the forward button, because that is irresponsible. It's an Islamic and it is unethical to do X like that.
Does Kamala Harris know that the same strong words the and words that we can definitely understand because we're handling even as a student of Islam, this is a serious thing. And Muslims are doing this thing on a daily basis, just forwarding whatever they receive. And that is enough to be categorized as a liar when you basically convey and transmit everything that is conveyed to you, obviously, without verification, so this has be extremely cautious of this. This is an irresponsible thing to do for anyone, and more so fully believer. The next question is for Dr. Karim. Dr. Sadie curry, Masonic home again, the status of the government hospitals in the Western Cape, you know,
other our hospitals coping, or the some measures in place to assist them at this present moment. Bismillah
Ar Rahman Come again? Yes, no, absolutely. At the moment, we currently have about 3611 people admitted across our public and private hospitals in the Western Cape. And I think that just shows the seriousness of the topic that we're talking about, and all my co presenters and the information that we trying to make sure that the listeners understand that. So we still have quite a heavy load of patients in our hospitals at the moment. But I can safely say that, yes, we are coping, we have sufficient general acute general. And we also if people will remember, we've got what we call what's commonly known as the field hospital beds that hadn't broken gate. We've also got a facility in
swanstone. We also have a facility out in Mitchell's plane, we have between those three facilities currently open 528 of those hospital beds, and the average occupancy there is around 78% in those beds, and we still have the capacity to open more. I think, However, having said that the critical care capacity is at maximum. And people will remember we recently had the alcohol regulations that were relaxed and people were moving around a bit more. And I mean, I think as a direct result of the alcohol regulations having been relaxed the weekend, after the relaxation, we saw a 100% increase in our trauma admissions, and that is directly as a result of alcohol regulations that had been
relaxed. But at the moment a humbler we do have the capacity
To cope, and we can still obviously, open additional field hospital B's, as I said, like I said a very quick point also on what Dr. Bock and others have been saying the results with a swanky throw, in fact showed that was recently released, I think a couple of days ago actually showed a 91 to 95%. efficacy against this, and choda 66% efficacy against hospitalization in the health care workers who were part of that study and people remember, the Socotra is when we started with vaccination of healthcare workers using the Johnson and Johnson vaccine. And obviously, that's effective against both a bita variant and which started the beginning, but also, in fact, effective against the Delta
variant. And the Pfizer vaccine, as
Shamim was saying, was also has an excellent efficacy of around 95%. So both vaccines as Dr. Bray was also saying yet we haven't looked at country, or in fact, in actual fact, very good vaccines. One other issue against that I've seen in the chat is around pregnant and breastfeeding women, if I can just quickly address that while I'm while I'm on the floor. It was a result of a multinational study that was done published in 2021, which is one of our colleagues, Dr. Hunt has, in fact, been doing some of the research in that and we base our provincial policy on that, which actually showed that that I mean, you know, in terms of the advices, we'll get the exact data there were certain
increasing in women who didn't know were not vaccinated, or in fact, it will work with COVID, what we call preeclampsia, ICU. And they were in fact, in as well as general infections, and the mortality was actually 22 times higher in those people, those women who had COVID. So the recommendation generally from the World Health Organization and other international bodies, as well as the policies be following in the Western Cape, used to offer the advice to pregnant and breastfeeding women, but certainly to offer them the vaccine. And I would actually say you're absolutely based on the current evidence, I would encourage pregnant and breastfeeding women to in
fact, take the vaccine, but obviously, at the end of the day, it is a woman's choice. But it's our responsibility as professionals to just make sure we import the facts to people should can again, the other question is what time interval between first and second is actually 42 days, up to a maximum of 12 weeks, but it's 42 days? Not before, but 42 days from the between the first and the second jobs shukran. In relation to that since since you are on Doc, the question popped up? Do we have enough oxygen?
Oxygen is a critical aspect of our treatment plan, as we discovered, in fact, in the Western Cape, because we hit the first wave first in South Africa, and some early early work from our colleagues at tygerberg Hospital in fact, showed the criticality of oxygen, Dr. Schroeder and some of his colleagues at tygerberg Hospital. In fact, we did some early work on oxygen. Yes, we have sufficient oxygen in the province, we have a very good working relationship with FX who is the main producer of oxygen in the province. At the moment we're using just about the maximum production capacity of the plant in our in Western Cape in Kosovo, that's about 7075 tonnes. However, what we our arrangement
with F rocks is that they tank in an additional 22 tonnes on a daily basis into the province. So currently hamdulillah we have sufficient oxygen. We obviously keep an eye on it as a Department of Health for both the public and the private sector. And in the public sector. Just by the way, we have about 434 ventilation and high flow nasal oxygen points that we can obviously use for treatment of our patients. Jagmohan Ron, Dr. sadi Kareem, we will then pose the next question to Dr. Yes mean that he has been macadam in relation to encouraging patients to take the vaccine. We just had. Dr. sadi Kareem telling us what the western Cape's policy is. And we also we know what the World Health
Organization has said about this as well. But now I'm asking you as a Muslim woman, and a Muslim woman who's also a doctor, would you also personally recommend the vaccine to all of your patients including pregnant breastfeeding women, frail, elderly, etc? Is this not basically saying look, I am I am backing the vaccine and Whatever may happen from you taking the vaccine as opposed to you taking a chance with COVID Bismillah okay. Bismillah. So, basically,
you know, the thing is, obviously, it is at the end of the day individual decision to make. I personally, I think Dr. sodic mentioned, the fact that pregnancy in itself, if you get a COVID and and you pregnant, the risk of a severe disease is much higher actually in the pregnant population and we've experienced with the second wave some devastating events where they were pregnant.
ladies have ended up on ventilators and then having to have emergency seizes for the baby to be born, but mom not to survive. I mean, that in itself is really devastating. You can just imagine the impact of that. So yes, definitely, there's been no major sort of issues with the vaccine and pregnancy and lactation. So I do encourage my ladies to, to take it and also to measure, you know, what are the risks? And what are the benefits. And what we see now is that the benefits seem to really outweigh the risks. Also, with your, your, your, your frail, and you, your elderly patients, obviously, the easiest checklist that we go through with patients to make sure that there aren't any
obvious contraindications to the vaccine, and then also to just warn them about potential side effects so that they do make a informed decision, you know, we can't just say blanket, take it and you're not gonna have any side effects. So there's a lot of education that goes goes with
giving to the patient. But I think to encourage him to say that you're getting the benefit does outweigh the risk. And ultimately, in Bateson, it's always about that, not just with the vaccine, but with any other treatment that we would Institute, the similar thing like hormone replacement therapy, there are risks, yes, you can develop certain conditions related to taking a woman tablet. But if the benefit outweighs the risk, then I would say in your instance, take it because it's going to have more benefit for you. And then just to quickly highlight one of the comments, a few of the comments on the network, I've had the vaccine and develop COVID, a few days late it was the vaccine
that caused that. And just from a personal experience, I can say that, you know, a lot of patients with this delta variant, you don't feel this virus coming on, it's like, you fight a fight today, and tomorrow, you've got a you infected. So a lot of the people that have gone through vaccines were actually already in the infective stage of COVID. And the symptoms only come out a day or two later. So people may be thinking that it was the vaccine that gave them COVID. But it's not actually that, it's just that we are in a wave at the moment, and people are so easily exposed. So the chance of you actually having COVID, when you've gone for your jab is the and not specifically because the
vaccine caused it. So just in on the side of caution for patients to if they're having any sort of symptoms, or if they have had a family member that is just tested positive, or if they were exposed to first isolate before and make sure that the symptoms that they are watching out for symptoms before they actually go for the jab. Because ultimately, the jab is going to be blamed for the COVID. But it's not actually that. I hope that answers your question.
Zakho higher on Dr. Oz mean, it's a pleasure. And we thank you for your response. Dr. Dre. This next one is for you. I actually wanted to ask you initially about the third arm that I grew after taking my Johnson and Johnson vaccine. But I think that's sorted. Now, I'm gonna ask you a genuine question rather, what is vaccine failure? Could you give us some insight into that?
Yeah, so so vaccine failure can happen broadly for three different reasons. The first is
the vaccine actually doesn't have any effective candidate or mechanism of action. The second and I'm just really simplifying this. The second is that the virus
what the vaccine is trying to defeat, sometimes it's bacteria. In this case, it's the virus, the virus is starting to change. So whatever mechanism will target the vaccine had, the virus has evolved, and is now capable of evading what the vaccine had originally intended to act on. The third bucket of factors are actually what's happening in the host. So to what extent does the host
actually mount the response that the vaccine was intended to do? Whether that's, you know, it's so to stimulate a specific immune response. So, obviously, what we are seeing with the COVID virus, which is not a new phenomena, for many things, we know that the vaccine and the virus or the bacteria will evolve over time.
You know, and this is not a new phenomenon. One of the smartest bacteria that we actually have tuberculosis, several 100 several century old bacteria actually has the ability to evolve over time is one of the smartest bugs we know of
what COVID is doing is also somewhat uncharacteristic.
That the rate at which is changing is pretty fast. So vaccine failure is when the vaccine is administered. And it does not give the host the human in this situation, the right kind of protection that it was intended for.
The the vaccine failure we really concerned about is not so much the infection. And I think, you know, kundala, the panel has done a fantastic job of talking about the fact that many people will actually experience some mild symptoms or may even get mild infection. But that's not really what we're concerned about. What we really are focused on is the jurisdiction,
prevention of admission to hospital. And really the prevention of the that's the biggest thing that we want to focus on.
And I'm just going to use I just while Dr. jungler was talking, you know, he does have a testing job of just explaining things so simply from the law.
I thought maybe your viewers and listeners Northerner will benefit from a really simple graphic, and I thought I'll take the accident issue. I know Dr. caramels touched on the issue of trauma. Now, if you traveling at 30 kilometres per hour, and you strike a pedestrian
10% of those pedestrians die, I'm not going to go through the whole table.
If you travel, traveling at 60 kilometers per hour, and you strike a pedestrian 95% of those pedestrians that almost 100% and I'm sure if we go to 80, let's even use 100 kilometers, 100% of the pedestrians will die. So that's a tenfold increase, if your kilometers per hour speed Muslim 30 to 60 kilometers per hour.
We all know those risks.
And you know, easy to understand that there's a tenfold increase if you move by if you increase the speed a little bit.
If we say for COVID with vaccinations Dr. Jungle I spoken about this and depending on which vaccine candidate better religious simplify this,
we see about 10 in 1 million will die, those that have taken the vaccine, because the vaccine doesn't work. This is not about side effects, but about the vaccine not necessarily working.
But people, 1 million people who get covered
about 10,000 of them die.
So one can appreciate 100 fold increase in the risk.
And I was actually trying to see more than on the speed chart, it doesn't go so slow. But I imagine this is the equivalent of on the previous slide traveling at like five kilometers per hour and only 1% of the pedestrians dying ways if you travel at 60 to 70 kilometres 100% of them die 100 fold increase in the risk. So I hope mowlana that is given the viewers and the listeners a sense of what
and vaccine success really means.
That was very insightful and interesting graphic as well. I hope we can you can share that with us. After the live session, Elijah Allah. And I've called upon Dr. jungla, again, to tell us about the efficacy of the various vaccines that are available to us. We've got the Pfizer vaccine, we've got the Johnson and Johnson vaccine. Tell us a bit about the efficacy, as far as these vaccines are concerned against, especially the Delta variant of the virus Bismillah corbishley
molana, let me focus my, my, my narrative on the efficacy of the delta V, because we knew now that this is the predominant one, if not the only one circulating in South Africa right now. And that's going global and that will hopefully be the main one across the world in a few weeks time. So the efficacy that I'm going to talk about or two types of efficacy data that have been generated,
generated to go was peer reviewed analysis of a population that have received the vaccine and in heartbreak through infection, which or infection, that all that happened after the vaccination. And obviously it murky fall and as doctors Amir said, our focus should be on the prevention of severe disease or hospitalization or death. All right. So for the Pfizer vaccine against the delta V. There has been studies
that have shown between 90 to 96% protection against severe disease and hospitalization that's against the delta V.
And in terms of the efficacy to prevent infection that has gone down from our 75% to 39%. And that's because the virus has changed. Okay. Now for the Johnson and Johnson vaccine, there has surprisingly been a better efficacy shown against against against severe disease over 71%, which is a bit better than the 67% that Dr. Karim mentioned earlier against the batavi and 96% protection against death. And just to finish off in terms of the global implications right now for the AstraZeneca because we are considering getting a swastika for the South African population. It has demonstrated in 93% efficacy against against against severe disease, and a 60% efficacy against a symptomatic disease
with the database. And just one last thing, because I knew that is now becoming something that is of interest, with a lot of countries considering a third vaccination, to prolong the protection that we have already had conferred by the vaccination for the Pfizer vaccine. Over a six month period, the efficacy has only declined from 96% overall to 84%. And in the case of the Johnson and Johnson vaccine, I think Professor Glenn data came on yesterday to confirm that the efficacy of the vaccine laws for up to eight months. So whether it's in duration, and whether it's in its impact on on how it's protecting people, we are seeing that it has, it has efficacy, it has a very good efficacy. And
finally, in the viewer data, which is the data that we should be more focused on now instead of the smaller studies with a smaller group of people in a real world setting in the US 99.99% of the people who are dying right now COVID in the United States, or people who not vaccinated 98% of the people who are getting infected, or still people who have not been vaccinated. And you can see in the states where the vaccination postnew and we've moved NC and anti vaccine agendas, these are the states that are experiencing like higher rates of infection and higher rate of hospitalization and death to vaccines work in vaccine still maintain the efficacy over a period of time.
Just co located on Dr. Shamim jam delay, we now pose a question to modern adoptees of Patel, who, as I said before, is both an Islamic scholar or scholar of Islam, as well as a medical doctor and working closely with COVID-19 patients daily. So with regards to not the medical side of things, now, some exciting things with regards to the closure of the masjid, the restrictions that scholars have that some scholars have been, you know, advocating and supporting, and the practices, or all of these, in your opinion, of course, in conformity with the Sharia. And I know, I'm asking a question that has already been covered on this program. The only reason for me, you know, he asked me the
question is because people might think that okay, but things have changed since when I thought I said what he said, so is the doctor, is the modern doctor's opinion, perhaps different. So that's the one point. And then in addition to that, why does it appear that some orlimar are not seeing the majors as valid in terms of the bigger picture? And should Muslims take public practice in the malls etc, as an example for you know, the the argument that in the malls is no social distancing, you're going to the shops, you're going, you're taking the taxi, you're going to the bus, etc. So why are you worried about the mosques? Right? What do you what do you think about this mission? spin out of
manga Rahim. inshallah, I'll try to, to integrate the answer with regards to those three sub questions. Mara, as you know, this has been a very sensitive topic in a very sensitive muscle issue that that we've discussed or that scholars have been discussing over the past 1818 months now, with regards to the closure of massage.
As we know, within our community within South Africa, we've been given that liberty of having freedom of expression, particularly with our religion, compared to other countries around the world. So therefore, it's understandable why people have become very sensitive about this.
Issue, the masajid are essentially the bedrock of our society, and something that we have become so accustomed to with regards to praying or Salah, without any hindrances over the many years. But however, me saying that I feel that at the beginning of the emergence of COVID, within South Africa during the first wave, and then in the second wave, and then currently Now, within our third wave, I don't think that it was the wrong decision. And this was always the the view of our beloved teacher, monado, Hassan. And if you remember, and I would advise the audience out there to revisit the various lectures that he gave when this decision or this
fatwa, and recommendation scholarly turistic recommendation came out, you could see on the face of mowlana, thought that this was a very difficult decision. And he stated that this was a discussion that they've had to had, where they deliberated with various role players, many of our panelists, currently, the medical doctors were involved in that. And I'm sure that they can attest to the fact with regards to the effort that they and Miranda and all the others put in with regards to these decisions. But again, what was on their minds, and particularly, was looking at the greater picture. And we know from our Sharia, and from the maqasid of a Sharia, that hifter knifes that preservation
of life trumps everything, obviously, we need to apply the opposite of the Sharia. within a certain framework, it's not just a free for all, we cannot just take a an extreme liberal approach to that. But we know that someone like one author had that ability to navigate, and to apply the maqasid, appropriately. And so that was the position that he took. And we know from various other juristic instruments within the Sharia, such as sort of barrier, blocking of the means,
you know, when certain events occur, when we allow to place certain hindrances in way in order to prevent certain
things, or certain effects from taking place. So we have precedents within our Sharia to understand why this was done. Now, the point, the next point that I wanted to focus on was that yes, without a doubt, if we as Muslims were responsible. And if we were people that were willing to follow protocol and instruction from the beginning, then maybe we would have had an argument later on perhaps in the second wave and within the third wave, to discuss and to re look at this issue. But we have to be honest with ourselves, we have to introspect prior to COVID, if we would into, and I won't obviously generalize and say every mustard but I would say the majority of massage, at least that are visited,
we saw the lack of order within those massages, you just have to look at the way that people unfortunately Park within the road on the day of Juma, you just need to look at how the shoes lay across the masajid at the back, and how people have to move around and place the shoes with an empty shoe holders, because that was the mentality, unfortunately, that we cultivated within ourselves. And I believe if we take that into perspective, if we take that into the equation, then we can be honest enough to assume that at least at the beginning, we would not have been morally responsible. Now that being said, I must say and we have to give credit, which you many of them massage it when
the regulations allowed for the mosque, to open up or play places of worship, to allow worshippers to congregate and to pray. Many of them massage it implemented the protocols effectively. And we have to give credit and my statement and my message to all the various members of the committee's and all the amount in the field is to ensure that these protocols are upheld. I do believe that it's possible to prevent infection within the massages if people follow protocol. And that means social distancing. That means sanitizing and keeping your mask on and obviously bringing your own prayer mat and so forth. And then the massage, obviously sanitizing the various spaces between the upper
part and so forth. And the last sub question method that you mentioned.
I think the issue unfortunately, is that we're not seeing the bigger picture. There's an element of self righteousness is an element that we as Muslims are the most important collective group within South Africa. And this is a big problem for us. You know, from the messages that came out from other places within the country, where all ama where Allah was saying, and it obviously hurts me to say this, but we have to mention it, where Allah were advising the congregation to still come to the massages, even if they had COVID if they were confirmed and to lie to the congregation if people ask them if they were positive or negative or to sort of bypass the screening process.
This is there's no justification for that within the Sharia. We are a religion of ethics. And we need to consider other people as well. And I think one of the biggest problems that we all suffer from within this day and age is that we, as human beings focus on claiming rights. But we are not focused on dispensing duties to other people. And I think that's what we as Muslims need to focus on, we have an excellent opportunity now to show the rest of this country and the rest of the global community, that we are pro active contributors to society and that we K, we are not only concerned about ourselves, but we are concerned about everyone. And at the end of the day, whether we like it
or not, we are all in this together. And I think our scholars need to be proactive, and there are many that have been, but there are also many, and as I said, it hurts me to say this. But the reality is that this exists, that there are many scholars that are still denying COVID there are many scholars that are taking the precautions as as jokes and actually advising their congregation, not to social distance not to wear a mask, and obviously using the member of the massage need to further certain agendas. And my response to that is that such scholars should be ashamed of themselves. We have a duty, not only to ourselves, but to the rest of our community
are called Dr. Maulana Yusuf Patel.
We call upon Dr. Signing pocket again, Doc, we've got a very important question. I strongly believe that people should not be forced, especially with something, you know, like the vaccine, people should have the freedom of choice. But in relation to that, are people informed well enough about a possible adverse effects in order to make responsible and informed decisions before taking the vaccine? Is this done on a on a one on one basis? Or the general recommendations for different categories of of patients with with some of the elements perhaps? What's your take on this? Bismillah Bismillah R Rahman Rahim you again, it's the concept of time. And like Dr. Bass it earlier
says she tried to spend time with
patients in private practice you we can make time for our patients in the state sector becomes more difficult. And I think it is right that people have questions. I mean, I saw questions popping up as to why was the COVID vaccine developed so quickly. While there is not a vaccine against HIV, for example, and these are valid questions. But the reality is, if I if we take the example of malaria, when it affected America, in the United States, a lot of research went into it. And once it was eliminated from the the money for funding for research, just dried up. Similarly, with COVID, initially, there wasn't a lot of interest, because it was supposed to be a Chinese issue. But when
it hit the rest of the world, money, especially the United States, as well as United Kingdom, and South Africa, and China, lots of money poured into it, in fact, more money went into the research aspect of COVID-19 than any other medical issue ever. And what happened in the case of COVID, was that the a lot of the studies that are done sequentially, in other words, you first do one and then followed by something else, and then followed by something else, could be done in parallel at the same time. So this speeded up the process of, of actually developing the vaccine. Having said that, we have to acknowledge two things. The one is that every person has the right not to take the
vaccine, and every person has the right to take the vaccine, depending entirely on the choice. We know that the vaccine is effective, it's been, it's been elucidated upon by about a few speakers before it, we don't know about them side effects. But we do know about the vaccines in general is that most of the side effects takes place within the first few weeks and lead, Babs will be in the first few months. So purely from a vaccinology point of view, long term effects are very, very unlikely because the delivery mechanisms for example, Johnson and Johnson vaccine uses the adenovirus to deliver the the part that induce the immune response. Once that part is in the body,
it actually gets destroyed and are in the body then both up the immune response assay because it counter the real virus itself. So we don't anticipate long term vaccines, but otherwise, we can't 400% say that nothing will happen in two years time, but it's highly unlikely. Also, this or that particular point, you know, if people talk of it as being a conspiracy against by the Americans and the Israelis
against the Africans of who's taking the most vaccines, the Americans which population is the highest rate of vaccination is the Israelis. So clearly, if people are going to die in two years time, it's going to be those two population groups. We do take enough time, I think, to explain to our patients but but we are we can only use what is evidence based. And the evidence that we use is what in science is called the best scientific principles. And to use a Islamic analogy, if something is in Quran, that is fact, we don't dispute it. If something is in the Hadith, there are different levels of interpretation. But if it say, no one will dispute it. If it's a opinion of someone, now,
then this can then use the try to figure out is this person a very wise person to follow? When it comes to medical issues, if one person says that he said two people were vaccinated who had clots in the legs, that is one person's observation, it is the lowest form of what we call evidence in science. The best one is what we call double blind controlled trials, which is where the person who receives for example, a vaccine is not the way that they are receiving a vaccine or placebo. placebo is basically author or, and it doesn't contain any active ingredient. And the person administering it also doesn't know what they actually injecting. And then only after taking all the data, he can
you do the comparison. So that is what we call the rock, the rock basis of of medical investigations, and a lot of the studies are being done at the moment. So we can use those types of evidence solid in its Science Foundation. But it doesn't exclude the fact that a small percentage and not mentioned 50, out of the 300,000 people to the Johnson and Johnson vaccine amongst healthcare workers in South Africa, in the first few months in South Africa, 50 are serious side effects. Compare that to the 10,000 per million will die contracting the disease. So this is the way we put the evidence over to the person. If they have questions on issues, or they saw on social
media, we try to answer address it and answer sometimes it's difficult sometimes it's the issue that we've never had about a initially I never heard about this chip that get started granted, it never heard about the magnetic
impulse that people generate without the vaccine vaccine injected into them. And sometimes you It feels ludicrous to I will try to answer that when we have to take into account that it's a genuine concern for the person to be vaccinated. So we do take all the questions seriously, we can't we never force anyone to take it. It's a constitutional right not to take the vaccine. But I think with giving good information, giving the risk benefit ratios add benefit that the patient can have against death and hospitalization, the best we can do is to try and inform the person and we done most of our patients will not immediately say I'm going to right now to take the vaccine, they will
ponder about what we said they probably go back to the famous Dr. Google and Dr. Internet, and then make up their minds. But our from our practice point of view, the vast majority of our patients did take our advice to get the vaccine
to soccerloco. Doc, tell me that that basket of chocolate that I saw at your place, have you received that as a result of sending people for the vaccines Be honest.
No, it was actually given as a thank you for treating them. Well, when they had the disease. None of them took the vaccine. They had a good choice of chocolates.
And I'm sure you enjoy all of them alone Doc
panelists and viewers and listeners. We have reached one hour 30 minutes into the program. And I'm going to take one more question. This question is for Dr. sadi Kareem. And I think it's a very important one, then I will allow each panelist to give the closing remarks or address any pertinent issue that they wanted to or they felt that was not covered correctly. As for the equation is who have posted good questions and comments on the Well the good among them on Facebook and YouTube. As I said right at the beginning and you could easily go back to the beginning of this program and laid out certain format or rather regulations about commenting questions, as well as what we will
actually do and cover in the program and we've stuck to that hamdulillah
but that said I will ask Dr. Salim Baraka if he is comfortable with sharing his email address and
Questions could then be forwarded to him. And he will either answer them himself or forwarded to the panelists he feels is most qualified to answer that particular question. inshallah, to Allah, all of the questions, all of the honest and real questions, you know, will be taken seriously. And of course, responses will be given to that evening, Dr. sodic. How does the health department actually investigate adverse claims, sorry, adverse effects claims. And in addition to this particular claim, everything related to people's concerns, for example, dates, certifications that have been issued as COVID deaths, but, you know, they will not go with dates,
fatalities that are allegedly connected to the vaccines, etc. What are the health department's methods as far as this is concerned? Because people claim that there is no protocol in place for this, we have seen from Dr. Shamim that they are in fact, apps available that people could utilize and report adverse effects. But from your side, what insight can give us on this matter? Bismillah? No sugar, no law? So this is a very important question in results department, we actually get quite a lot of queries about this, because people as we can see in the chat, people are very concerned about side effects. So people are thinking, are we hiding things? Are we not disclosing facts? are
we are we not sharing the information with public with the general public and and I can say all of that is not true, we have a very, very clear protocol in place for how we record adverse events, we call it adverse events, following immunizations, there's a very clear protocol in place in the province, and in fact, around the country as well. So when people have adverse events following immunization, and they report to the public or private doctor, is the case forms that have to be folding. And these forms are then collated and collected by our provincial office, we have a special office that actually does this. And people can obviously record this on the med safety app is also
recorded on EDS, for example. And then we present those stats and data to the national Department of Health. So it's actually not true that we are hiding anything we are, we disclose all of these these facts. And in the last report that I just checked, which was up to the 23rd of July, in the Western Cape, we had 484 adverse events that have been reported thus far to date. 84% of those were, in fact, minor. And 12% of those were a little bit more severe, with generalized body aches and a little bit of nausea and vomiting, a little bit of diarrhea. And those have have have, in fact, been recorded. Most common side effects generally are headaches, fever, and a little bit of pain at the
at the injection site. So it's quite so we actually have a very clear protocol in place for that. We also have a very clear protocol about this, and this certificates and what gets recorded on a death certificate because that is a very important legal document. And doctors have, besides the oaths that we take, in terms of declaration of inflammation, there's a very clear legislative process for what is recorded as a death and how COVID is recorded because that is another question that we still get off the 20 months in this pandemic, is our colleague SP net and mentioned we still get questions like that. About what about what is the DSL we also have a very clear protocol in place for that you
or glossy comb does Aquila Farah and Dr. sadi Kareem and the I have shade Dr. Salim Bach, his email address, please don't send him hate mail. He does love fan mail and he does love chocolates even though you're not going to be able to assume that via email. inshallah. I'll now ask the panelists to give the final remarks and perhaps address any of the issues that they felt needed to be addressed before we can conclude. And I'll start off with Dr. Parker Bismillah
Bismillah R Rahman r Rahim. Just today again, this universe 3800 cases in the Western Cape, so those 3000 odd people can still infect more people. It is not we haven't reached the peak about a pandemic, the third way via yet so people have to be careful out by the protocols. Why do we promote vaccination, we still heading for a fourth wave. Some countries are already in the fourth wave. So if we have a number of people vaccinated, what the other panelists clearly elucidated too, was that the vaccines prevents hospitalization, prevents dates. So those bits that would have been occupied during the fourth way by people who were not vaccinated will be empty, it will be clear to do other
life saving procedures. There are people currently who have had the cataract operations delayed for two years because of this, there are people waiting for hip replacements, but those beds are taken up by the COVID patients who need it more acutely. So when those bits
Free the fourth wave, if it occurs and is projected to occur towards the end of the year, because people are vaccinated, you will be actually doing a favor to someone else by freeing up vital resources which will probably be taken out by
people if people are not vaccinated by people needing oxygen and critical care. So I think that is our duty as well to the rest of the population. shukran salaam aleikum wa rahmatullah wa barakato. I personnel had let Dr. Park Dr. yasmeen. Let's hear from you is Mila listening now. So basically, my take home message is is that do we even remember what normal life is like?
Where they will know lockdowns and they will know isolation and quarantine and travel and going to Makkah and going for hygiene, things like that, at the moment, everything has been on a huge pause. And this is one way of us actually thinking that we could possibly go back to some sort of normality. We need to try and ultimately look beyond all of the the issues, you know, with regards to the the fears, fear mongering, and all of the things to think that you know, we want a better future for our kids we wanting to be able to interact and go to parties and go to school without this fear hanging over our heads. We want to be able to travel and we want to go for Hajj and Umrah
and to all other places in the world inshallah and this is one way that we have with our current knowledge and capacity to actually think and have hope in a going back to some sort of normality inshallah we pray we make to our and we really ask Allah to cry as ease in this difficult time and to relieve us of this pandemic. We understand ultimately it is Allah that can take this away from us, but we can include the means that we have and the vaccine is just one of those means inshallah, you can also make very much doctors mean Dr. Shamim from your side.
Yes, so I would like to end by appealing to people to listen, to reason to listen, especially to people who knew their subject people who are in the field people who have the right information, it is becoming even more alarming the number of misinformation the number of conspiracies and and the impact that this is having on people who are genuinely agitated to take the vaccine because they are worried and, and there is like a flatmate of the medical community as well. You know, being a doctor doesn't mean that you knew everything about COVID, none of the shavel in this panel knew everything about COVID COVID is something that is relatively new. So there is no real expert on COVID. But they
are people who are actively involved in understanding it that have to hear information. And if you're in the medical fraternity and community, and you are not sure about, you know certain things, whether it's regarding vaccine, whether it's regarding treatment, whether it's regarding anything that has to do with this epidemic, and that you need to share with your patient, and people in the community. You cannot coach, you people, people who have the knowledge, there is the Islamic Medical Association of South Africa, for example, that has put together a good group of doctors who are in the field right now in fighting this epidemic who have a lot of these information. So please make
sure that you all following like post worthy sources. And for people who are doing all the spreading of misinformation and conspiracies, please understand the impact that you're having. And it's already manifesting itself across two three weeks that we've experienced sugar.
again, I mean, shall we have Dr. Sami
shukran molana. But there was something that happened to me today.
As you know, my mild addiction to coffee. I was standing for a
cup of coffee. And what happened really disturbed me Malina.
There was a young couple in front of me.
The lady was pregnant with her first child.
And in front of her was an elderly lady
who was not wearing a mask. So the young lady said to a man, you, you don't have a mask on and we're very close. Do you mind? The lady turned around and said to her mind What? I'm not sick. I refuse to wear this mask
and I could see the fee
The struck in the pregnant mother that was standing behind this lady who clearly had no regard for that mother safety and that baby safety
and refused, despite other people telling them refuse to put animals.
And the reason it disturbs me is because this is not about you.
If you don't want to take your High Blood tablets, and you say it's okay, if I have a stroke, and I die, it's my thing. That's okay, that's up to you was covered. It's not about you. It's about the people around you. It's about the people you love. Or it's about the people that you will infect whether or not you plan to.
if you as a parent,
this carried your children from taking the precautions, or you as a leader, discourage your congregation, or your community from practicing the safety measures, then you have to live with those consequences.
If people become infected, people get hospitalized, and people die. Think about what those consequences are. Because Merlin, I can assure you that the guilt that is going to live with us for decades to come is not going to be easy. And I'm not using this as a threat. But I can assure you that for all of us on this panel, and every single healthcare worker in this country, it has been the hardest 20 months ever. This is not easy for us. But if you really want to make a difference for one minute, think that it's not about you. It's about the people around you. It's about your loved ones, so that I take all the safety measures you possibly can. Shakira,
a fundraiser kuno Heron, Dr. sodic your closing remarks. Bismillah shukran Mola Sheila Rahim. So I mean, that we didn't get to talk about quite a number of issues like travel hygiene, O'Meara, you know, we'll perhaps this topic for another another show, inshallah, we are working, by the way with our colleagues from Department of National relations on COVID vaccine, what they call nominal as a passport. We didn't get to talk about the weekend sites. There was a question around that it is published on the Department of Health website, by the way. But I think Just to follow on from what Dr. Bray was saying, I mean, you know, I, I mean, we because I have to as set of operations,
obviously, I got to make sure that I have visibility of the health platform site, literally constantly over time. And we have, and I'm in touch with colleagues who are we're in hospitals and actually seeing patients and I, I can tell you the plea from, from all of us as as healthcare workers is something similar to Dr. Bray was saying the plea from us is that please get vaccinated. Because this is the only way that we are really going to truly avert a fourth wave. It is such an important issue, that we cannot stress enough how important this actually is. I mean, we can tell him, you know, colleagues will any one of the medical practitioners will be able to say that the
number of people admitted to hospital has been far lower in a sense from this wave, then there's been previously we had capacity issues also, you know, in the in the past, but but it is such an important issue in our healthcare workers alone again, surely, there's enough cross it one can show in terms of the number of people of health care workers who are, were being infected in the second wave versus those infected in the third wave. know one of our colleagues, Michelle, she keeps her record and daily basis or the Daily Record of all of these, to our players, healthcare workers is pleased to get vaccinated because that is the only way we're really going to truly, truly avert the
fourth wave shukran ensure Salam Alaikum I can say our cottages Hakuna Heron, Molina, Dr. Yusuf Patel Bismillah Mulana, one of the points that I wanted to discuss, I'll close with this inshallah was the issue of double standards that we seen within the community, particularly with all these anti all these lobby groups, firstly, with those that still deny code, and with those who obviously are disseminating false information with regards to the vaccines. Now, what I want the public to do, and the audience out there is to take the opportunity to question these individuals, these individuals, many of them from last year started off, and this is how they shift the goalposts that
started off with the view,
or the theory that COVID does not exist. So they denied COVID outright. Then, after evidence, practical evidence came out, and many doctors in many healthcare workers,
rebutted those claims with clinical observation and experience, they shifted the goalposts by saying no this that's are exaggerated. Then, after the first and second wave, when family members of people within the community were starting to be affected, many people passed away. Those claims were no longer tenable. Right. And so the goalposts shifted now to the issue of the vaccine, because it's a very easy target that people can play around with. And we see even within those arguments, people focus on different things. And we've seen it tonight with all the questions, whether those are trolls or whether those are people, you know, just trying to cause frustration, whatever it may be.
The point that I'm making here is that we need to make sure that these individuals are held accountable for the statements that they've made in the public space. Right, people, if people were incorrect with the initial observations, and they stated this publicly, they need to retract. And this we find within our own Deen, as we discussed earlier, today, we find that Imam Hassan actually who is one of the founders of the theological schools, he followed a certain sect within Islam, the Nazi lights for many years, he was trained within that school until he saw the truth. And when he saw the truth, he went on to the member. And he explained or he proclaimed to the people that
followed him, initially, his students and the general public, that what I preach to you in the past was incorrect. The truth has been made evident to me. And I assure you that I will now focus, or I will now include myself in what we consider to be after some novel Gemma. And this is a precedent that we need to ensure that people that are in the public space follow, because what's happening is that people are making statements. And, you know, there are many neutral individuals who, unfortunately, are not really clued up with what's happening around them. And many times they have forced for a reason to follow these specific narratives. But the people that are making these claims
do not understand the consequences. Dr. Bray mentioned that earlier. And the point that I want to end on here is that, just as we have this concept within Sharia, with regards to a set of kajaria, where there's this perpetuation of goodness, in various forms, we should look at the opposite of that as well, when we commit a harm, or we cause people to incur a harm because of us, and that manifests within certain circles, or it progresses through other generations, even when we leave this dunya the effects and consequences of that will still come back to us in our grave and in the year after. And we need to be very careful that we understand what we are saying and that we take
accountable, I can assure you that many people that belong to these groups, I know them personally, right. And I know many of them had COVID, and many of them were severely ill some of them are passed on. The sad reality is that we as Muslims that belong to these groups can not be honest with our friends, with our families, and with the general public. And when honesty is not being presented, then for me that is a red flag to never support and to believe such a narrative and to belong to such a group. So I share that with the audience out there. Look at these red flags of dishonesty, and individuals not willing to detect retract the mistakes or the errors that they presented
So Angela does echo Hello. Hi, Ron. In conclusion, I saw Yes. Dr. Samir, I saw that there were a few, a few questions about all the panelists vaccinated. And I was thinking the entire time I'm thinking, why why the awesome is like wouldn't a group of people saying you know what you on it panelists say, wouldn't they be vaccinated? And it occurred to me that the type of thoughts that, unfortunately are prevalent is still that I don't trust you. I don't give you Muslim that you say your Shahada that you make so now I do have kids that hiddens that you have my business in my best interest in art, I think that you are lying. So it shows me why this is the case, but it is the case
I'm vaccinated hamdulillah
and I'm, and so is Dr. Salim. I saw Dr. Sami Shang is called the everyone. How about Dr. Yusuf
Manila. So that's that. I would like to conclude by saying that, look, this is a very important point we've held up for now almost two hours, over 750 people I think read up to 900 people watching live. This tells me that people have a genuine concern about these issues in these questions and
are more questions that we did not yet reach. And I'm sure there are more questions out there. I've seen them in the comments. And I said right at the beginning, we won't be able to cover them all. But that said, Let this not be the reason for taking people out to the fold of Islam, for breaking up families, for ridiculing one another for calling people bad names, right? make your decision, make it responsibly, make it inform it. informatively In other words, be informed when you make a decision. pray to Allah Subhana Allah for use the hora you know, ask Allah for goodness, and take the encouragement that you heard from the panelists and myself also take that encouragement. In
light of that. There's no there's no wrong choice here. You know, there's no I don't believe that there's a haraam choice here.
Well loves behind with that, but is a choice based on information and this is a choice based on your say, and just what you know, it's floating around the air but I think it's so it's so much more important that we understand the sacred nature of human lives, and that the prophets are sent to us that you Muslims to one another, your sacred and your bloody sacred and your wealth is sacred and your Your Honor, is sacred among one another. And in light of that, let us not make each other out to be liars and to be deceivers and to be a cheaters and so on. I think we deserve better thoughts about one another as the Muslim Ummah of Muhammad Rasulullah sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, and again,
I'm going to make dua and ask Allah Subhana Allah to grant schiefer to all of those who are ill of any illness, disease, ailment, pain, etc. For all of those who have passed on my Allah, Allah grant him the highest places in Jannah play soccer in the hearts of the bereaved. And that even your anyone in everyone who happens to be going through difficulty of any kind of Alitalia alleviate your pain, your suffering, and any loneliness and depression that you may be feeling, now that Allah help you in bV with you and for you, and for our frontline workers, our doctors, our medical workers, etc, whose lives are dedicated to serving Allah by serving his creation and by being the for the
healing of others, with good intentions in good hearts and good souls, wanting to see people better wanting to see people healthy. I make dua for you that Allah protect you preserve you, grant you all the fail the Baraka, the alfia. And may Allah grant you the strength Oh feek and everything that you need to do what you do so well and thank you on behalf of the oma of Muhammad sallallahu alayhi wa, early he was, he was alum, and until next time, or sallallahu, ala Sayidina, Muhammad Subhan, Allah Subhana Allah homovanillic Masha, Allah, Allah, Allah and Estelle fuuka wanted to be like assalamu aleikum wa rahmatullah wa barakato. To all the panelists and all the viewers and all the listeners
on all of our platforms, including the waste of the cape, a Santa Monica, when it comes to lamb well