Ibn Taymiyyah’s Theology – Part 1
Channel: Hatem al-Haj
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Episode Transcript ©
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Hello everyone and welcome to blogging theology. Today I am delighted to talk to Dr. hatom. Our Hodge You're most welcome sir. Thank you both for inviting me, Islamic coming to you.
Dr. Hatem was born in Cairo, Egypt and currently lives in the United States. He has traditional ijazah is from a number of scholars, and a PhD in comparative Fick from our junan University. He's also a qualified pediatrician.
Dr. Hatem is a member of the assembly of Muslim jurists in America, and of the permanent Fatra committee. And he's the author of a number of books, which I won't list now, there are so many of them in articles as well. Dr. Hatem has kindly agreed to introduce us to the theology, or one of the most controversial Islamic figures, and thinkers, Ibn Taymiyyah, I think we are in great need of an accurate and clear presentation of his thought, not only because of his intrinsic interest, and I think he's a fascinating figure, but because a better understanding of Ibn Taymiyyah can help ease the tensions that sadly exists between various groups in the Muslim world. So over to you, sir.
Thank you very much, brother, Paul, for inviting me.
I've tried to do my best Inshallah, this may be a long presentation. But I'll try to do my best in presenting tenean theology and I will explain shortly, why I may call it me and theology, even though it is basically, as a scriptural were scripture list, theology.
So I may start with a presentation now.
And this is this is basically an outline of this presentation. So today, we will try to talk about his life, we will introduce a short bio of him because it, I think, to put things in context, it would be important to have a better understanding of the person himself behind the theology.
And then we will have a brief discussion of the on the pillars of faith, Islamic pillars of faith, just the bird's eye view on the pillars of faith and Islam. And then we will address the more controversial
pillars, which would be the divine attributes or the more controversial pillars would be God and predestination.
When it comes to the belief in God, that we as Muslims, there is no dispute concerning the oneness of God, the unity of God, that that disputes
are mainly concerning His attributes, and how how we describe,
because then we will talk about the Damien project.
And, as I said, the two points of contention here would be color or predestination and the divine attributes. We'll talk about the Tamia project, and we'll talk about his
with regard to Kedah or predestination, and the divine attributes, but in order for us to do this effectively, we will need to talk about his epistemology, his ontology and his hermeneutics, and these are all important discussions.
And then we will talk about how he answered certain concerns of speculative theology, which are not all invalid concerns, speculative theology has certain valid concerns
about the divine attributes and how we describe God and we will talk about how he answered those concerns. And,
you know, the last part when, you know regarding this project, is basically some eccentricities and I use this not in a pejorative sense.
But when you have
when when you uphold them in order to position that is a very small minority position, it would be naturally called eccentric because it's away from the center or the mainstream or the bulk, Muslim scholarship or momentum.
And then I will talk about accusations as well.
Because that will be important to clarify, and then there will be a summary
Then where do we go from here?
So if I may start with introduction, first of all, as I said before, to me in theology is is objectionable, you know, the very sort of title of this presentation is objectionable. And this objection will come from the site of
the followers of the mammoth, they may have sympathizers with the amount of money they may, because it, it seems that I'm giving in to the notion that his theology was different from sort of suddenly as study theology for scriptural theology.
And I'm not saying that I think that his theology is, so knee is already in nature, for sure. But it does distinguish itself through the combination of his choices. And I mean by this, that, within the schools within the different schools, and within the,
you know, the Sunday schools, which would be the referee, and the motor Kalamoon, rationalist theologians, and that particular school would be further divided into fisheries and batteries.
But within the schools, there is no complete uniformity within any of those schools, just like you have in the legal schools, the format. For legal schools, you have disagreements within the schools, you have
a greater amount of disagreements, and more substantial disagreements within
the Sunday schools.
So you're the combination of your choices distinguishes your your theology, also, his methodology was a little bit different. And we will talk about this
So his methodology does characterize his theology because it's it's different. It's not purely structuralist and it is not purely rationalist. He tried to basically merge the two methodologies together the rationalist and Scripture list.
And finally, rare extreme eccentricities would characterize
a person's contribution to any field of knowledge.
So my purpose of the presentation, and I want to be clear and candid about this, I am trying to accurately present and clarify Damien theology as a humbly was Damian inclination. And I want to say this, candidly, because this is not
a basically a completely impartial.
And although I try as much as they can to be objective,
and this is what we all need to do. I mean, regardless of our own convictions, I think it is very possible for people who have firm convictions to be also objective. And there's always that that question even, you know, philosophers, not consider
religious people who have firm beliefs to be able of engaging in philosophy, because they think that since you have firm beliefs, you have to come to philosophy without your beliefs. And I don't think that this is necessarily true. I think that people can have firm convictions instead of the objective and factual. So that's what I will attempt to do here.
So why is it important to talk about Samian theology and you may have alluded to it in the introduction, Brother Paul, because even his opponents recognize the importance of parts of his legacy.
That's not only us followers, but but also many of his sort of more
fair opponents, I guess, do recognize how the importance of parts of his legacy when it comes to
factor in particular, I mean, if people who would not subscribe to his theology, they still benefit greatly, and many of them do acknowledge that they benefit greatly from his jurisprudence
from his contribution to Islamic law,
from his contribution, you know, some of them also said that the benefit and I do remember hearing the former Mufti of Egypt, a doctor or a drummer, so who said that people may benefit from Mr. Socko
From his Sufism or from his
basically discussions on Islamic purification,
spirituality, purification of the heart spirituality, how some people would like to call this the sky and some people like to call it Sufism. But anyway, he used his own preferred term Sufism. And he said that you could benefit from his writings on, on his writings on Islamic law.
Another reason why it is is also important is what what you have, you've mentioned in the beginning of that
loves to mercy on him, a better understanding of his legacy can greatly ease the tensions that exist between various
segments of our Muslim community. Because we have people that subscribe to his theology and his legal thought,
and his thought on purification of the heart or spirituality, and we have people that subscribe to that that would basically accept his contributions in some of those areas. And we have people that completely reject all of his contributions and exhibit a great deal of animosity towards the person.
And that certainly is causing tensions. And we do want to ease those tensions. That's one of our objectives.
So I say here on the slide, if you are sorry, I just want to begin by saying
that if you're a charity and you listen to this presentation, please do not feel uncomfortable. Please do not feel that your beliefs are being targeted. It is natural that people have different beliefs with what basically
presented their own set of beliefs and defend them. The fact that the mayor, the chief interlocutor of Imam Abney Tamia, were the later authority scholars, particularly amendment Razi, and I will explain later in this talk, why I call both of them Imams, even though I may say, ascribe to them in theology.
But, but anyway, it is, it is natural that you feel that you're being targeted, because the discussion of one set of beliefs is basically considered
sometimes, right rightfully so, how to be a refutation of another set of beliefs that that
basically contradict them.
But let's let's all remember that the basic beliefs in Islam we agree on the basic beliefs in Islam that we will talk about shortly, inshallah and this discussion, Can I Can I just say, if I may pop in there. I appreciate a lot your your ironic spirit here, the your, the way you're looking to, you know, build bridges and not too often, in my limited experience, people who call themselves followers or admirers. Even Tamir can be much more sectarian and rejectionist towards those who don't agree with them. And that is reciprocated, of course by others who then attack even Tamia people, people who appreciate even to me as you get this something sectarian tensions. And so your
approach as someone who clearly sympathizers agrees that even to me is is a refreshing approach and much to be welcomed, in my view anyway.
Sorry, just wanted to say that,
you know, why am I saying do not feel uncomfortable because most of our basic beliefs are the same as as I will discuss.
Secondly, this particular speaker
has many authority scholars, that he respects and loves, and that he benefited from greatly. I may say that if I were to be asked by any of them to wash their feet, I would not hesitate.
I will also speak later about Imam they may as treatment of the Sharia scholars of his time.
But this will be later in the presentation. So please don't feel that
targeted in any way.
This is a brotherly sort of discussion.
And then I ask Allah subhanaw taala to forgive us all.
I ask Allah to send his peace and blessings around
through the prophet peace be upon him, who conveyed this message to us, and I praise them as praises due to him and I asked him to forgive us, because we may be speaking about him in a way that is
not most suitable. Sometimes we when we get into these these disagreements, we may use language that God did not speak about himself with using that language did not you know use the right language to describe himself and if
if we will have to do to clarify our positions, since this agreement did already take place and since there is already controversy,
this language has been introduced into the basically the doctrines, the Islamic doctrines
and the Islamic creed, then we may have to use this language to have a conversation to have a common ground and to be able to converse with the with our interlocutors. But we do ask His forgiveness because that language may be suboptimal and it is not what he preferred to use
to describe himself, okay.
So, as short bio, or short introduction of the life of Imam Tamia, which was very multifaceted so we will not be able to do justice.
He spent his entire life and learning preaching teaching, activism to have
and sometimes the President as well.
So, he led a very austere and celibate life, not to say that celibacy is
recommended in Islam, not to say that people who lead celibate lives have are better. Because no, they the Prophet SAW Selim is the best
model. And he was married and he was not, he did not need a celibate life, nor that his greatest companions, but it seems that some of the scholars were too busy and they basically could not handle being married. And one of them was emailed to me and he lived a celibate austere life that was completely dedicated to, to the the cause of God and worship, learning, preaching, teaching activism. And
so I will not talk about you know, all the details of his life, but just like an outline, and talk about the distinction of employment and religious sciences, what people call transmitted sciences and the rational sciences, because this is important, since we're discussing is theology and he came, he was born in the seventh century. Why would someone from the seventh century basically get himself involved in these matters, serious matters. So we will talk about his distinction and both fields. But first, when did he live he lived
between the seventh and eighth centuries after the Hijra of the Prophet peace be upon him, that would be
13th and 14th, between 13th and 14th century of the Common area.
And I have the dates here, both in history and Gregorian calendar.
I heard Professor Hoover are making sort of
some remark about the fact that that the amount of time me I lived right in the middle that, you know, if you look at the outline from the birth of or birth of Islam, or you know, the the nature of the Prophet sallallahu sallam, or the ministry of the Prophet SAW Salem, which started 13 years before his intro, to our time, he would have been in the middle of, of that period. And
to him, it was interesting,
but it is it is, to a great degree interesting, and it may be relevant to some of the discussions that we will have later. So if you look at this outline, you'll find that the nature of the Prophet sallallahu Sallam This happened in the first year if there's a gap year
and then 120 is the beginning of
of the period of the fourth Imams, of course, the imam of him Abu Hanifa was born in 1880 after hedgerow eat zero after hijra, but he started to be prominent and contribute to the you know the Islamic scholarship in great ways when he was about 40 years of age. So the year 120 After hijra, is the beginning of that period of 40 Imams. Imam Malik was born about 13 years later. So the year 93 After hijra, so both renowned Hanifa Imam Malik, they started to become prominent around this time.
And Dubai to 41 to 41 is the year the Imam Muhammad
was Imam Muhammad died in 241 After he died, so that ended the period of the four Imams and 247 That's a few years after even Rama died. This was the end of the first
Bessie dynasty, about a dynasty or abassi dynasty. This was this is the end of the first bassy dynasty. That's the
the first dynasty as the powerful dynasty, the prosperous dynasty. And then the authority after Bessie for the furs was no more like it was before and
there were basically it was fractured, fragmented, after the first
after the end of the first dynasty by the year four or in the year 450 After Hijra Imam Al Ghazali was born and why is it relevant? Because people nowadays are either residing or Tinian. But
why is it relevant because in that second half of the chef's century
and particularly, you know, at the end of the fifth century, the tide started to turn in favor of Kalam theology versus athey theology or scripture list theology. So Callens ology would be a rationalist theology, and scriptures theology would be the atheris theology and the tide started to clearly turn in favor of Quran theology. And by the sixth and seventh centuries.
It they, they were the the decisive majority. So by the time they may have came to the scene, they were the decisive majority.
So in the year 488, after hijra, that was the beginning of the Crusades,
the year 616,
the beginning of the Mongol invasions of Muslim territories, the year 656 Is the fall of Baghdad, which is
significant, because even Taymiyah Rahim Allah was born.
About five years after the fall of Baghdad, he was born in 661, after hijra, that was still in the midst of the Mongol conquests of the Muslim territories. And
and he actually had to flee his hometown, when he was six or seven years old, because of the Mongol invasion of His own town, and he died in the year 728 After Hedra
which corresponds with 1328 of the common error.
Then, you know, significant events that happened in our history after that is the French invasion of of Egypt. And certainly we will not talk about hypothesis, particularly significant, but people who are familiar with the history of Muslim countries, they can recognize why the French invasion of Egypt was pretty significant.
And then the end of the Ottoman Empire, or Ottoman Khilafah Caliphate was 1342.
And we have the present now.
Yeah, so this is a quick outline of the life of the mountain Tamia. So as we said he was more than 661 After Hedra that corresponds with 12 663 of the common error, and he was born and Hassan
it's currently it is, you know, in modern Tarik, modern modern day Turkey.
It used to be like part of Mesopotamia.
And at about six years of age 667, he was taken to Damascus as a refugee from the Mongol invasion.
His father took him
The whole family moved to Damascus. And ever since they, they lived in Damascus. And they said to settled in Damascus. So he's at the mercy in scholar to a great extent.
And shortly after he arrived in Damascus, he became very famous. As a boy, as a child.
People started to talk about his intelligence and his
great talents and capacities, that a
scholar from Aleppo, which is about four hours away by car from Damascus, who are more came to see him.
And he said that if this boy lives,
he will, he would be very prominent, and
the likes of him has not been seen before, something like this.
And so in, in 678, he was 17 years old, and he was given permission to issue fatwas. And that certainly was was a great thing for 17 years old. I mean, you know, usually you're in your 40s or older before issuing fatwas, but 17. And that speaks to his exceptional abilities and learning and maturity at such a young age.
Particularly given the conditions in Damascus at that time, there were great, great,
like so many raid scholars in the Moscow time. So it was not like, basically lack of resources, and we're trying to look for somebody.
And then 683 He was 21 years of age, and he replaced his father, his father would who had just died as the dean of the Hadith career, Jesus school.
And 692 He made heart 693 That was his first encounter, like rough encounter with
authorities. He was imprisoned for protesting when a Christian close to the authorities curse the Prophet peace be upon him and he, he and other scholars, but he was, you know, most prominent among them, went and protested.
And then he wrote his book, The onsies, the unseen sword,
I guess, again, it's the one who curse the prophets. Yes, so I've just I've got a copy of behind me, I won't read it out, because obviously, yeah.
And then in the year 698, he was accused of anthropomorphism and, and that was when he wrote
short treaties, or an RP, the code that Harmonia
699 between 699 and 702. He was busy in Jihad all the time. He led resistance movement during the market invasion of the left hand.
And 699 Nine, his famous confrontation with the chief of the Mongols.
Verizon is Gasan, I guess is his name and the rest of the Mongol chiefs and he, during that episode is when he asked for the captives to be released. And when he released the all the captives of the Muslim captives. For him, he said, We will not leave here until you release the Christian and the Jewish captives as well, because we will not leave without taking all of our al Milla, the people of our religion and the people of our covenant. And this shows extraordinary courage on the part of Ibn Taymiyyah because he risked his life basically in confronting and questioning the decision of, you know, an invader, mobile invaders, so shows it was just a great scholar, but he had a man of huge
valor as well and defending Christians, as well as Muslims who have been unjustly imprisoned says remarkable. Yeah, and and that particular figure that particular module chief was known to be extremely cruel and brutal.
So all the scholars that went with him and they may or they basically rebuked him for risking their life
did he succeed, by the way, I mean?
He then he took all the capitals back.
And then 699 Also he fought in the caravan campaigns. These Kisaan campaigns were campaigns led by the man Luke, Sultan against some
some CR in the, in the sort of the mountains of Kessel run that basically colluded with invaders, at least according to the Sony narratives, make colluding with invaders and help them. So the Sultan went to Iran. And certainly among them are the assassins, they're known.
In Arabic, it would be a harsher scene. translation in English, they are the assassins. That's where the word assassination came from. Because they used to target and assassinate
major Sunni figures.
And many, many Sunni figures, including Sultan's and so on, were killed by them.
So in the year 702, he participated in the Battle of shark hub. And the battle of shark hub is a very well known battle, maybe the second most significant pattern after highenergy salute.
And they won. During this, you know, the war against the Mongol invaders in the Battle of shark hub, and when he fought, he did not fight as a foot man he fought as he fought as a horseman.
And he, you know, they describe, they talk about his bravery and courage during the in the battlefield and so on. But that's a different discussion. 705 he was imprisoned in the citadel of Cairo for 18 months for anthropomorphism as well. And for speaking against some Sufi modernists of his, you know, you know, contemporary and NSN but they were not alive and his time.
And then in
that, that imprisonment in the Citadel and in Cairo, or most of that he spent in the dungeon, which we will talk about, closer to the end of the slide. However, the presentation
707 He was in prison twice at the behest of some influential Sophie's for again criticizing some Sophie Mona's
He was sent to Alexandria, under house arrest after the advent of papers and Josh sneakier. This is a someone some man Luke who deposed another man Luke from, you know, the Sultanate of Egypt and he became the Sultan, so
Imam pay me I was not basically in support of the coup d'etat.
So he sent him under house arrest to Alexandria when the original Sultan, which is Nasser, Mohammed, Nicaraguan came back he brought in a mayor back
he, he basically was
not only because of the premier, rejected coup d'etat, but even before that, so fun and awesome. However, Carlone had always respected with me a great deal on love them a great deal, despite the fact that he imprisoned him several times.
But, but present him basically to avoid unrest.
Right? It's it's a political decision rather than a personal graduating like that. Yeah. So he brought him back from Alexandria and in a ceremony and a great ceremony. And then he consulted him in basically executing the judges that not only imprisoned that Imam Tamia before, but also sided with his enemy. Weber's interest Nick here. So at that time, Tamia, he said that these charges are great scholars, they are the best of your idea, or your people. And if you get rid of them, you will never be able to replace them.
And so he showed a great deal of graciousness here.
And then 712 He went with us all time to basically on a campaign to recover the maskers. He was telling Cairo, he you know, he
you know, the president imprisonment, Cairo was
he came to Cairo several years before that in 705. So we're talking about seven years now. Then he left with us all time on a campaign to recover the maskers and,
and ever since he saw
in Damascus until he died. In seventh 19 He was imprisoned in the citadel of Damascus for five months for a fatwa on divorce.
Many Muslim countries now actually act on this fatwa, including Egypt, for instance, my own.
This is very ironic, because in his day, he was very, very controversial photo without going into the issues which I read about it a bit. But now, this view is accepted by all manner of schools of thought and theologians and philosophers and legal scholars as perfectly, a perfectly valid and indeed approved of fatwah. So there's a great irony here. There'll be an example of Ibn tears that were being widely accepted. That's in contrast to some of his other views are correct, yes. So so he had several fatwas on divorce and particular,
the reason why he was particularly concerned about divorce is the fact that, you know, the sort of the threefold composite of divorce resulted in the breakdown of many families, and you know what one occurrence basically can result in this family breaking apart because the husband cannot take the wife back until she gets married. And in order for him to take her back, she will need to marry and they, they used to have different arrangements. Some of them were not consistent with the Sharia, or some of them were consistent with this radio, but also, were causing a lot of social
disruption and also disgrace to Muslims to the to the Muslim community, because even people, even when, when, when the French came to Egypt today, they particularly commented on this practice of tax lien or, you know, sort of temporary marriage to make the wife permissible for the first husband.
But anyway, so he was particularly concerned about the issue of divorce, and he has several factors of divorce. Most of those factors have been widely accepted in our times, and they have been accepted by legislatures Also, throughout the Muslim countries.
726 is when he was imprisoned in the Citadel in Damascus for his condemnation of traveling to shrines.
Canada, it was not only the condemnation of traveling to shrines, but but but several factors, including divorce as well. So it was just like they they got fed up with him, I guess. Yeah. So so that was 726 and 728, when he died, and he was buried in the cemetery of the Sophie's and hundreds of 1000s of people in Damascus attended his funeral. And it was, you know, it was said to be the greatest funeral. And since the funeral of Imam Muhammad, several 100 years earlier.
This suggests he was very popular with the people, not just obviously, many scholars might not have liked him. But in terms of the masses, he was very, very popular indeed, clearly. Yes, he certainly is.
To the point that some people would call him a populist scholar, I mean, in a pejorative sense, but but we will come to see that he, I mean, he was
he has this egalitarian epistemology. So he was for the people but not populist, in a negative sense. Yeah. Yeah. So that was just like a quick overview of the life of your own Potamia. And I'll just talk about his distinction. And the reason why, as I said earlier, it is important to talk about this this distinction, because the issues that the mountaineer spoke about are extremely serious issues. And if you're coming at, you know, in the second half of the seventh century, to talk about those issues, why and what gave you the right
to talk about them, so, if you just the millennials and endorsements will be helpful to basically 100 Stand,
how, you know, his status among the scholars and the fact that he reached the pinnacle of knowledge in the religious transmitted sciences and in the rational sciences. So, just this show that he was qualified to talk about these serious issues. So imagine a typical eat for instance, is you know, and all of these testimonials are from what we may say,
tier one Imams or tier one scholars, the highest of the greatest
So, particular at this one of them and he saw he said that I saw a person who had all the knowledge between his eyes
and he said about him
I did not
I think that Allah is still creating people like you.
And the Imam and Missy said I have not seen anyone more knowledgeable and Imam Missy was one of the greatest Hadith scholars. Five or six years senior to Imam Tamia Imam, the people aid was 30 years his senior human misery was about five or six years we sit here and he said, I have not seen anyone more knowledgeable of the book of Allah and the Sunnah of His messenger and more compliant with them than him, email me. And Imam in therapy is a student of him. So he certainly he would have a favorable opinion about him. But I will also show a closer to the end of the presentation how
sort of impartial and fair zahavi was in assessing
TV and temperament and in particular,
so but he said, If I were to be made to swear by Allah, between the corner of the Kaaba and the station of Ibrahim, how I would swear that I have not seen the light of him with my own two eyes. And by Allah, he has not seen his own like how similar statements were made by Greek Imams like Mizzi, Abhyanga Andalusi and urbanism Lakhiani, who was an opponent of the development of a mayor, both of Ohio and Tennessee and urbanism like any
ethnicity is some like any
added to this that we that the like of him has not been seen for four or 500 years.
And he went on to say that that's something like any stem that all prerequisites of St. Howard were fulfilled in him. The jurist of all schools would benefit from him if about their own schools. They would learn from him about their own schools.
Imam Anahata has Kalani, you did not see the Imam Tamia. He came later. He died in 82. After he drew, he said the fame and renown of chef to pay Dean as an imam is clearer than the sun. And given him the title of Shiva Islam in his era remains until our time upon the righteous turns around the CLT. And uncertainly, I'm not going to read the whole thing. But remember CLT said that any time Mayor when he described him he emailed CLT keep in mind that we're mainly talking about Sharia scholars here. Really, so these are actually these are these are not his allies in these great notes. These are his opponents praising him. So people like Peninsula county people like even hotter
people like a CLT these are actually scholars of course in fact, he was not already scholar, but the rest of them are as hardy scholars. So the promiscuity who's an unknown SRT and Sophie scholars sounds like they may or the shift the imam or Lama creates color. The half is the critic the Fatih monster had the brilliant exegete, the chef of Islam, the leader of aesthetics, the gem of our times.
And here is a Hanafi meta Ed scholar, like also very great hunter female 3d scholar, remember readin hiney
him and Imam and half of the harder Imam and harder they lived around the same time and they both wrote commentaries on the head body. But remember the detail it who lived at that time. Keep in mind that this is a time where epidemia died in prison, there were hidden they may have so many enemies that made fear of him. Some of them were scholars, some of them were great scholars.
You know, but but certainly not in the caliber in the caliber of these scholars that we're talking about now.
So it for these scholars to come out and say this this was not easy.
And certainly it shows their fairness and their
courage as well. So remember that it didn't line up how does he was amount already scholar? How does he matter Ed scholar said that he is the Imam The first was the masterful the pious the devout the knight in the sciences of Hadith and tafsir Fabcon the two foundations of the deen with area addition and precision. He's the mighty sword against the innovators authority who established the matter of the religion, the great commander of the good and forbidding the evil. He possessed willpower and bravery and embarked upon that which frightened and deterred others. He was of no
remembrance, fasting prayer and worship.
One of our contemporary scholars, certainly elite scholar who died
recently, relatively I guess, a contemporary scholar anyway, hello Halima Ahmed, Hassan and nadwi.
From from India, he's also a Hanafi scholar largely meta he used similar words to describe his multifaceted personality as an erudite scholar, activist Mujahid and devout worshipper, a combination of the three or the existed outside of the earlier generations. So, and certainly volumes have been written, you know, many, many volumes have been written about these testimonials or just selecting some of them
from from people who do not share his same theological orientation mainly from people who do not share his same theological orientation. Otherwise, if I, you know, basically add to this the testimonials of his own students and he had, you know, a number of, of the great scholars, students like remembering to pay him like
people call the Jabel mafia.
Certainly I did talk about zahavi. So we have many, basically, scholars of the greatest caliber,
calling themselves students, even half that Mizzy would consider himself a student even despite the fact that he was five years his senior.
But But anyway, I wanted to talk a little bit about his distinction in the rational sciences now because that's important because the question that may arise is, as a Hanbury jurist, why do you get involved in this, you know, if you're a humbly jurist. Hanbury means textualist, to some people, although we like to call that scripture list.
But, but, but regardless of what people would call cranberries, but they are known to be textualist to basically give a lot of weight to the text of Revelation. And if you're a textualist, then you're Hanbury. Why are you talking about those issues? And why are you getting involved in these discussions?
And this interface between reason and Revelation?
So a little bit about this distinction in the rational sciences, remember CLT Panama City was not a great fan of rational of logic in particular, that does not mean that he was oblivious to rational sciences, of course not. But but he was not a great fan of logic. And he summarized the Book of Enoch Taymiyyah response to the logicians Rajala monta PE in, he summarized it. This is the book that was translated the summary is the book that was translated by Professor Haluk.
Professor HELOC said about me as critique of Greek logic. He said the most devastating attacks ever leveled against the logical system upheld by the early Greeks. Many people do recognize this professor Tara Brockman, who's not a man at all, he has progressed earlier has some people consider him to be purely a Khazaria, even though he would disagree, because he is
the most prominent philosopher in the Muslim world
with with sort of an Islamic orientation, so the most prominent sort of religious philosopher in the Muslim world nowadays.
So Professor power but our man has said that even if a male was not an ordinary musician, but a renewer of logic, his contributions to logic are more innovative than any other contemporary logicians, including the great philosophers such as farabi and ebony Siena, who all remained prisoners of Aristotle's principles. The difference with everything here is that he was not imprisoned in the Aristotelian worldview, or Aristotelian principles of logic, and he critiqued them. Professor Piper Basa would would
greatly agree with this statement.
Professor and we are a bit Murasaki, who is also a Muslim, contemporary Muslim philosopher recognized him and had nothing to do and as the two greatest thinkers
with genuine contribution to Islamic thought,
In the Middle Ages, are genuine meet meaning not borrowed from from sort of Greek philosophy.
Professor onkey Fong Kukulkan if I'm saying her name correctly, she she is emeritus professor of Islamic Studies. And she's an ethnic they may expert as well. She argued that his work is relevant to the broader philosophical tradition and his critique of the limits of reason and the role of language and human knowledge anticipated modern debates in the philosophy of language, and epistemology.
Professor audience Assad,
the lead Professor Adi NSR, said that he proceeded Francis Bacon and mill in highlighting the importance of inductive reasoning.
And one of the traditional scholars, I would conclude by this statement or observation of one of our traditional scholars and our lemma, Shibli Normanni. He recognized
me basically as the greatest thinker in order the greatest contributors in Rational sciences in our history,
in a comparison, but between him and remember, I was at Rocky Mountain law.
Anyway, that that shows that even if they may, I was not basically involving himself in matters that are beyond his reach, at least we can say that.
Now, I when talking about Islamic beliefs,
certainly the focus in some beliefs is on the unity of God.
But we'll discuss like a sort of a bird's RV eye view of the Six Pillars of faith and how we can basically converge them into three or even two.
And we'll talk about the divine attributes. And further because these are the two issues
that are somewhat controversial, or the discussions about them are our source of controversy.
So every, you know, most Muslims, or maybe every Muslim, would know that the Six Pillars of faith or to believe in Allah, the angels, the books, the messengers, the last day and predestination.
So the green here would be, you know, converging the six pillars into three pillars, I would use the green to say that the three pillars would be God, the last day, and prophethood.
So where did we come from? Where are we going? And how do we get there?
Basically, so the angels are the books the messengers are, this is about prophethood, because the role of the angels with the greatest role of angels is to bring down the revelation from God to to humanity, through the human messenger. So you have the angelic messenger, you have the human Messenger, and you have the message. So all of this is about prophethood, is the establishment of prophethood. And the last day and predestination. And so God and predestination predestination is there derives Selter from the concept of Gods kodra or omnipotence and omniscience. So if He is omniscient and omnipotent, then everything is predestined by him. He's in control of whole things.
And that's the concept of predestination. So you could converge predestination, if you want to condense this six into three, you could basically
consider a predisposition to be a subtitle of the belief in God.
And then, then we will have three for simplification. Just this was the classification. We're not denying that the theories of faith and Islam are six pillars. We're not saying that they're three, and they're not six. We're just trying to simplify
things into you know, broader concepts. So, there is not much controversy. There are there are controversies regarding the other pillars of faith, but that the controversy there is not that great.
And there are not that many controversies
regarding the last day regarding prophethood, but most of the controversy is about God. And certainly, you know, the greatness of God
would make this expected
So the final attributes and predestination these are the two topics
that Muslims disagreed about,
traditionally And historically, great deal.
So, since since the our main discussion will be about divine attributes, let's first address the issue of predestination.
And then we will focus on the divine attributes and the Tamia project concerning the divine attributes and the language of the revelation. How do we basically
preserve our sense of,
you know, the the accuracy of the language of the Revelation, the precision, comprehensibility of the language of
Revelation, so further predestination, so, that is, the discussion here is about the balance between human responsibility and cause omnipotence and this is basically
from our perspective as human beings because we have limited knowledge, this would be a dilemma from from our human perspective, and this was not a dilemma for Muslims only this was a dilemma for all people of religion and it was it also has been a dilemma for philosophers from the beginning of philosophy.
So, scholars have different ways of reconciling these two prepositions are good, could God be omnipotent and omniscient, and
we can have at the same time freewill and thus be accountable.
So, imagine Tamia in this discussion. And in the discussion of the divine attributes, we will show that the moment I mean it was much closer to the earlier SRTs
and we have to stress the earlier part, so it was closer to the earlier saris then the majorities, but in the discussion of calorie he was closer to the batteries and the authorities.
And according to Encyclopedia Britannica, and I retrieved the data in 2009, I think it may be still there. According to Encyclopedia Britannica, he sought in Tamia Rana, Allah sought to rehabilitate human freedom and responsibility. So, we will, we will see how he tried to do that.
So, most, you know, one of the first discussions that pertained to the concept of Qatar and pertain to the concept of divine decree
and define divine decree and divine command is
basically two parts, there is prescriptive, and there is creative.
We don't disagree that we have to submit to the prescriptive,
which is basically God commanding us to pray and fast and so on. But divine decrees that our creative God causing health and sickness and, you know, the famines and earthquakes and all of these things that this is the creative Divine Decree, which we call product county production, it would be the prescriptive color county would be the creators.
And how do we deal with a creative Divine Decree that's, that's the issue. So
pertinent to this discussion is the discussion on divine actions and whether actions
have intrinsic value or they don't have intrinsic value. So most of the SRE is versaplanetary. These believe that actions have no intrinsic value. And they were driven by concern for
you know, they privileged Divine Will rather will over anything else.
And they, they they felt that we need just need to submit and they wanted to drive this in. And that's not a bad motivation. But but this made them
propose that actions have no intrinsic value and may only acquire one through divine command that prohibition.
So even if they may, or Rahim, Allah argued that acts do have intrinsic value that makes them has an orca be beautiful or ugly. So the cost of vaccine and Takbeer How can you describe X
without divine revelation or do X have intrinsic value that make them beautiful or ugly, without divine revelation, he, he proposed that yes x do have intrinsic value. And he proposed also that God wills and commands that which is good and wise in itself or for another wisdom.
Or he added, that when God commands something, it becomes beautiful, and when he forbid something, it becomes clear.
But that does not mean that intrinsic that that actions do not have an intrinsic value.
And he said that Ebrahim submission for Abraham's submission to the command of God to slaughter is my yield.
Was, was beautiful.
But the act itself, God would not basically command the him to smother his son, unless it was for another wisdom and the wisdom here was to test his submission.
So eventually, God did not let him slaughter his son. God just wanted him to show his submission, and that was the wisdom. But everything that God does, or that God commands, is basically
subject to his wisdom, like God does not do anything that is not congruent or consistent with wisdom.
Now, Imam to me is clear on and he makes it clear that our wisdom basically is not the measuring stick, because we may or may not, may or may not comprehend his wisdom, we have to believe that everything he does is wise. But that does not mean that we force our own wisdom on him.
We may or may not comprehend this wisdom.
So the equal value of the divine attributes
of Radha and wisdom
in his conception
made him subscribe to an optimistic theodicy
that we may talk about later.
But for him, the pre punch Reiter
have defined actions in general is Divine Wisdom, the pre planned traitor of divine actions in general is divine wisdom.
So now on the issue of secondary causality. So, you know, he's the Minister of HRD is, again is because the chief interlocutors of email the media are the HRD scholars who used to be the majority of Muslim scholars of Sunni Muslim scholars. And despite the RTS or SRT, scholars have believed that the unity of divine acts necessitates the negation of any non divine causality. They were concerned with God's will, and the privileged Gods will include it. So there is no non divine causality, including human agency. So they introduced the concept of cast, which means that or suggests that the human act was merely synchronized with God's creation, that made that made the human
responsible. That means it's possible, but it is merely synchronized. So your your act is not causing or the effect it or your will is not causing the act. It's merely synchronized
with a divine will, but you're still responsible.
So that's, without going into the obscurities of the if that sounds paradoxical to me both to affirm and not to affirm at the same time it doesn't. It doesn't seem to be terribly coherent, if he's so most of the most of the Muslim theologians from outside the SRA tradition and even within the SRT tradition, have a great difficulty coming to terms with the concept of caste,
and with how the synchronization makes us responsible and accountable.
So how long with a Sufi emphasis on surrender to divine well, both prescriptive and creative? Now the idea of surrendering to the prescriptive, divine decree the commands of God, pray fast, don't kill, don't steal. Of course, all Muslims will have to agree that you must submit. Now the issue of divine decree that is creative, like he gets sick should use
render to this,
like, you know, so So there has been some emphasis in certainly and and particularly if we're talking about the non play man imagine if a man wrote on Sufism and as I said in the beginning of this discussion, you know, some of his opponents feel that his writings on Sufism are like a source of wisdom that people can can benefit from. So he was not proposed to basically a Sharia compliant Sufism and anyway
he was a proponent of Surely our compliance officer, I like that so very, that I liked that expression, Sharia compliant Sufism because so often that some of the contemporary followers Ibn Taymiyyah, so called just reject Sufism completely the root and branch and then at what it is, what it is, is all bad to be rejected. But in fact, you're I think you're accurate. You're right. Having also in my own small way, read a bit of even told me that a Sharia compliant Sufism he was perfectly happy with. And it was quite explicit on that point. So there's a slight mismatch between some of his contemporary followers today. And what he actually taught in his writings was I just noticed
that that's all he considers, he considered Sharia compliant. So if there's an integral part of Islam, and he was perfectly happy with it, he himself was one
But at any rate, there are certainly excesses within the Sufi tradition, there are imposters, there are imposters who do not belong to the tradition, they claim to belong to the tradition, and the cause the life harm to the name and reputation of Sufism. And there are people who commit excesses they are sincere, but the they are wrong and the commit excesses and they undermine the the place or the office of reason and impugn it.
So So anyway, but there was emphasis on surrendering to the Divine Decree, the creative, the decree, some of them would say that the miracles are part of the
Divine Decree, you don't resist them.
You know, Chef proceeded to Brahimi, one of the basically, leaders of the resistance movement against French occupation of, of Algeria, he talked a lot about, you know, Sophie, Sophie's of his time that are that were saying that France is part of the Divine decree that the occupation, the French occupation of Algeria is just part of the Divine Decree, resisting this would be resisting God resisting time decree. So that concept of submitting to the Divine decree
the creative one,
I have to be honest with you also, you know, it's not, it's not like it is completely made up, you find, for instance, the mama Madonna, humble around somebody, and he is my Imam, but you find the mama humble, for instance, saying about
you not taking medicine is superior for certain ranking of people, you know, is, and this is opposed to the position of the three other Mytho because the prophets or Sargon, said to Tao seek medicine seek treatment for Allah had not sent down a disease except that he sent that he sent down the cure with it.
Whoever knows it knows it, whoever it doesn't know, it does not know it. But this is the prophet encouraging us to seek treatment, the prophet encouraging us also to seek medicine and to discover treatments for every disease, because the that's a very optimistic view that every disease does have a cure.
So, but But Matt, made that statement, and, you know, that is that is his position. So can you say that this says
that, that the fuqaha and then we're, you know, the Sophie's made this all up? And there was no, basically
there were no rules for this in Islamic thought, in general, no, you know, but but certainly the Sufis or some of the Sufis have taken it to an extent that was unthinkable to any of the great scholars. And and keep in mind that in Iraq, Matt did not say that seeking medicine or treatment is a bad thing. He just said it's half an hour for the highest ranking of believers. Who, what, what trusting God to the extent that they would not need
To seek medicine anyway. So, so the that
basically concept of caste along with the emphasis on surrendering to the Divine Decree, the creative
decree according to some
caused some indifference and some pacifism in, in our history.
And so, what is the Tamia view now on
secondary causality so if I'm Tamia First he said that actions have intrinsic value
that makes them Hasler cubby are beautiful or ugly. But God does only what is wise whether or not we can comprehend it, comprehend this wisdom, that
consequently, we should only do that which is wise.
He's, he's, he's. So he comes up with with the concept of insufficient cause, basically, explain divine human agency. So he says that God creates things through causes, it is God's way of doing things, God brings the effects through causes. So, he mentioned many verses in the Quran, where you know, the concept of secondary causality
is can can be seen, for instance, Allah subhanaw, Taala says about the rain, that will He sends down the rain causing to crow thereby, gardens of joyful, joyful beauty, so thereby by the rain.
And he says that it is basically irrational and inconceivable to say, that the AI has no potency, more than the cheek, to see things
or the leg, you know, so who are the fire has no potency to burn more than water, for, you know, so he says that this is not inconceivable that there is potency in these creatures that God placed in them. And God causes, you know, the effect, or, you know, the,
the enacted thing to basically come be created is to be realized in the external world through causes.
So, the violin well, is the only necessary and sufficient cause. So God says B, and it is, so it's, it's as necessary, because he can't do anything without his will. And it is sufficient, in and of itself, any other cause is insufficient. And he turns to the philosophers and says, that you would agree that
in addition to the effective cause, you need the material cause, for instance, forget about the first and the final cause, or the teleological cause, or first, forget about all of this, you agree that at least you need with the effective cause, and material cause. So the fire does not burn rubies, for instance. And, like, if I do this,
and do this,
this did not create any sound, although it's the same movement, but you needed the material cause
this against like, a wall or something, it will not create a sound that like, so you'd need in addition to the effective class, the material costs, so how could you think about the effective cost is sufficient? Now, it's not sufficient.
You need more than this.
And so he he says that the human, the human will, is insufficient, cause it's a cause it's a factor, but it is insufficient. And that is why were responsible and accountable.
In terms of
you know, and I actually watched I watch a lot of your shows, by the way is may have told you, so I watched your doctor jelajah.
Audio, yes. So so I'm not going to talk a lot about this because I think about particular show was very informative on the cause of closures. For right you haven't they may of course have closures would be more exciting given causal gaps, because they point to the intelligent creator of the laws.
And ultimately, you know, we may say
Even though I believe that the position of Imam Tamia is closer to the balance of Sharia,
or the balance that was presented to us by the revelation, the balance between the divine power and omnipotence and human agency, but I would I can see that I would basically admit that no explanation will completely quench our thirst for solving this dilemma once and forever
and it is one of the greatest mysteries.
So, yeah, I guess that would be enough for that.
Now with the divine attributes,
the attributes of God are attributes of beauty, majesty and perfection. So, the man Jalil command. So beauty is Jamal majesty is Jolla and perfectionist command.
But we the void, we have like different divisions of the divine attributes, first in terms of how they describe God. So we have after matory and negatory affair matory Is God hears
negatory God does not forget.
we have in terms of what they describe the essential attributes that describe the divine FCT
and we have the volitional attributes or the voluntary attributes that the describe the divine actions. First would be that a Yeah, the second would be folly or Tru.
And in terms of their source, and
how we establish them. From a scripture list viewpoint we don't have purely rationalist, although we agree that through reason alone we can establish some divine attributes we can know things about God, but we will not call them divine attributes unless he calls them his attributes, but but we can establish the existence of God we can establish the perfection of God we can establish the knowledge of God we can establish the life of God,
through reason without the revelation, but we will not call them attributes.
You know, you know, unless they come to us through the revelation, we can, we can use them to talk about God, it may be more you know, disagreement to form than substance, we can use them to talk about God, but we will call call them so far or attributes only if they came in the scriptures. So, we have attributes that are scriptural and transmitted, we call them some if a Berea had had the revelation not told us about them, we would have not been able to establish them. For God, we have attributes that are scriptural and rationalist, some ad hoc layer. So we we they are were transmitted they came in the Revelation, but phrase them also leads to establishing those
that that is something that's understood within the etheric tradition and the rationalist theology tradition. Although in the rational theology tradition, they would not they would call them hochma Yeah, they would call them rationalists. They say that these are attributes that reason alone can establish
Of course, they do recognize that they are also mentioned in the Revelation.
So, Allah describes them himself with different attributes in the Quran or in the Sunnah of the Prophet, the Prophet peace be upon him describe them with different attributes.
So in the beginning, you know, the the god of the Quran.
So, the god of operand is above the majestic throne, hearing our every word as we speak and responding to our supplications he loves those who obey His commands, and His mercy embraces all things. It was he spoke to Moses in the Sacred Valley of Torah. On the day of judgment, He will grasp the heavens and earth rolling them up in his right hand. On that day the believers will witness his splendid beauty with their own eyes.
In their head, may Allah grant us and all his faithful servants the joy of this visit
Regardless of their opinions, so the indisputable fact here is that the Quran unequivocally affirms the existence of a personal God, who transcends the limits of mere words and ideas and reigns supreme in a realm beyond our mortal comprehension. And do we use the word do we use the expression shucks person, for God as an attribute? No, we don't. But we can tell about him using this expression. It's not an attribute that is established, although the Prophet did speak, in a sense, about sharks
in reference to God, but it is not an established attribute, because the way the Prophet said it would not establish it as an attribute.
But we can certainly talk about God in the sense of a person of God.
So that is the Quranic depiction of God. Now, is there is there a disagreement between the Scripture list and the rationalist theologians on the operatic description of God? No, there is not a there is not. So let me give you the statement here from the moment of design your MO, Allah was a great
scholar from both the SRE and the meta in the traditions, because he was Hanafi. But he was leaning more Ashanti in his theology, but he was the first one, basically, because there was a lot of contention between the two schools that already is and maternities. And we had all sorts of contention between all of our schools throughout the history. And we may talk later about with the way we go forward. But at any rate, in the merit of design, he wanted to bring them a bit together, closer, because he himself was Hanafy. So, in essence,
matter Ed more matter, Ed, but but he was more inclined to the authority theology, even though he was Hanafi in his
fifth, so it the amount of those Annie says here, if it is, if the correct religious belief is the negation of spatial located nearness, specialism, spatial located ness and by directionality, the above nearness of God, why is it then that the heavenly scriptures and they usually talk about the heavenly scriptures? from Tamiya? Does this often process theologians do this often? Because, you know, whenever the Torah and the Gospel corroborate what's in the plan, you could also mention them
as as corroborating what LeBron says, even though the prayer is not in need of corroboration, but to say that this is basically what all people of religion, or having the religions to believe, then is to add some weight to your argument.
So he says, Why is it then that the heavenly scriptures and the prophetic traditions imply in countless instances the affirmation of that without of that which is spatial located in some directionality, without a single instance of negating yet, so we don't disagree that this is what the scripture said.
So the answer that the development of society provides here is he says, the answer is because exoneration from directionality is something the intellects of the masses cannot comprehend, to the extent that they would be certain that something that does not exist in any direction, does not exist at all, therefore, the most appropriate speech for them, the closest to their reform, and the most suitable for their invitation to the truth is what is apparent in the form of anthropomorphism and the existence of the Creator in the novelist direction with subtle indications that leak subtle indications of the absolute Transcenders from anything that is characteristic of contingency, and
why is it characteristic of contingency we will come to discuss this later. But what we wanted to establish here, something very similar to this we said also by the MAMARAZZI, Rahimullah
break guarding the Scriptures what the Scriptures establish. So, we agree that this is what you know, the Scripture establishes us
publish this depiction of God. Can I just focus on that just for a second, it is incredibly important passage you read there. I mean, forgive me for being a bit polemical. But it strikes me that the author of that passage is saying, in effect, or they're perhaps not by intention, that the Quran presents a slightly misleading understanding of God in terms of the alleged spatial occasion and some directionality. But the Quran does this anyway to say that the masters, the ordinary people, in a somewhat patronizing way, can kind of have some understanding, even though it's inaccurate.
The Quran is is slightly misleading from from a philosopher or theologians point of view. But we understand that and it's the masses need this kind of language to latch on to otherwise they're not going to get it. It's a very, it's slightly unsettling isn't a picture of the Quran, you're no longer dealing directly with it, you have to filter it and interpret it in a way that renders it acceptable from a philosophical and theological point of view. But the common masses, they don't need that they'll believe something is not quite true. But that means the Quran is misleading them technically
being unfair in saying that, well, that is what that Imam told me. I
would argue that what what you're saying amounts to the person being unclear and misleading. Yes.
Well, it just, I mean, whether or not I agree with him in Tamia, but it just the logic of that statement itself, in itself, suggests that whatever he may even told me, I may agree or not, sort of may need it suggest that philosophers know the real meaning the masses don't get it. But God kind of misleads them with stuff that they can understand. You know, it just seemed a bit unedifying. But I don't get lulled in my opinions there. But that was just how it struck me just reading that for the first time here. And I have to be I have to also be fair to the rational theologians, because the amount of Dasani although they consider him to be one of the highest authorities among the later
generations. And remember, Razi had a similar statement and they consider him to be one of the highest authorities as well. They may, they may not all agree with that statement. They may not they may find this explanation to be
rather their their own and not have basically a representative of what they believe
what the entire school believes. But honestly speaking, if we are condemning them to full truth of Hypno rose after rose.
I don't think that the TOEFL truth is any different from this, in fact that the TOEFL,
TOEFL, truth may be clever.
So So then,
someone makes an image Wainy Rama Lai Mohammed Amin and Joanne Yahama. Allah said, the Imams of the predecessors
refrained from the wheel, which is reinterpretation, leaving the explicit wording of the texts to stand as they have come and consigning or delegating their meaning to the Lord Most High. So Imam, we all agree that this is the language of the prayer. So what did the what did the predecessors What did the self
do about the language of the Quran at the moment, Joanie is saying that the salah have refrained from reinterpretation they would let they would leave. Basically the explicit wording of the text stand as they have come and be delegated their meaning to the Lord Most High Okay, the concept of wheel is basically when you give
a metaphoric or
secondary interpretation to the words because the because of some proof that you have this is the ballot that we if you have a valid proof, whether it is contextual or inter textual proof that what is intended is not the primary meaning, then you present your proof is what is intended is not the primary meaning. Look at the second text or look at this other text. So it's contextual or inter textual.
With Me or him Allah approves, after we, in principle, although in his contextual theory, it is rarely needed unless it's inter textual. So put in his contextual theory.
The apparent meaning is what