The Fajr start time dilemma explained

Haitham al-Haddad


Channel: Haitham al-Haddad

File Size: 23.50MB

Share Page


WARNING!!! AI generated text may display inaccurate or offensive information that doesn’t represent Muslim Central's views. Therefore, no part of this transcript may be copied or referenced or transmitted in any way whatsoever.

AI Generated Summary ©

The speakers discuss the concept ofteen degrees, which is the time at which the Federal time should start. Some contemporary individuals have disagreed with this concept, but overall the discussion centers around the "teen degrees." They stress the importance of checking the formula and finding the correct start time for trading in London. They also discuss the timing of the start of trading and the importance of calculating the federal timing.

AI Generated Transcript ©

00:00:00--> 00:00:02

With regards to this issue that has been

00:00:04--> 00:00:06

seen as a controversial issue

00:00:10--> 00:00:13

the most of these scholars

00:00:15--> 00:00:19

with our contemporary scholars or all these colors

00:00:21--> 00:00:25

confirm that the Federal time should be calculated

00:00:26--> 00:00:29

based on 18 degrees

00:00:30--> 00:00:31


00:00:33--> 00:00:38

what is the basis of this 18 degrees? Please listen to this carefully.

00:00:39--> 00:00:50

Many people say that we should not base the prayer timing on calculation we should base it on what

00:00:52--> 00:00:54

see Masada

00:00:56--> 00:00:57

seeing the phenomena

00:00:59--> 00:01:00

and we say

00:01:01--> 00:01:03

that is wrong

00:01:05--> 00:01:06

that is wrong

00:01:13--> 00:01:17

we don't base the prayer timing on Misha

00:01:19--> 00:01:29

let us be more specific we don't base the prayer timing on each person's individual Misha

00:01:34--> 00:01:35

agree or not?

00:01:38--> 00:01:39

When do you think do you agree or not?

00:01:43--> 00:01:44

For example

00:01:47--> 00:01:47

do you

00:01:49--> 00:01:57

pray bow when you check this guy and you see that the sun is in the middle of the sky

00:01:59--> 00:02:01

do we do this for every Salah.

00:02:05--> 00:02:06

I'm asking you

00:02:09--> 00:02:11

know why don't we do that?

00:02:16--> 00:02:20

It is already been done. Okay good. This is part of the answer.

00:02:22--> 00:02:25

By which means that we do not base

00:02:26--> 00:02:31

the timing on the individual Misha

00:02:33--> 00:02:37

another question that might come What about if the sky is cloudy?

00:02:39--> 00:02:46

So we will not see that overtime? Same thing for Nigeria Same thing for us mother Asia

00:02:48--> 00:02:48


00:02:50--> 00:02:53

That's why it's panela the dean which is practical.

00:02:55--> 00:03:12

And Allah Allah Allah knows this. Like the law Allah says, me salata, Lee do Kishan de la, la Li established the salah. When they do comes to Luke means the sun moves from the center.

00:03:13--> 00:03:30

Allah Allah Allah didn't say up in the row at locations, establish the center when you see that the sun moved from the center. It didn't say when you see it, while

00:03:31--> 00:03:36

the Prophet sallallahu Sallam said, fast we knew what

00:03:39--> 00:03:41

when you see the new moon

00:03:43--> 00:03:51

So, fasting is based on Shahada, however, collective Masada, but it should be done every year.

00:03:53--> 00:03:58

Prayer is not based on Russia It is based on the actual timing

00:03:59--> 00:04:05

the actual astronomical phenomena, if it happened, happened.

00:04:07--> 00:04:15

So this removes the first misconception about calculating the future timing.

00:04:17--> 00:04:18

Many of

00:04:20--> 00:04:29

our brothers here in the UK, they say Misha, Misha, this is the Sharia, I guess they did not understand what they're talking about.

00:04:32--> 00:04:39

Because my Shahada means that every single individual should go and check the time.

00:04:40--> 00:04:51

This is what my Shahada means. For at least for every single side. You should go or you should ask someone to see it on your behalf.

00:04:52--> 00:04:59

So I will not pray until I checked with someone who told me that the time we started this is impossible.

00:05:00--> 00:05:01

It is impractical,

00:05:02--> 00:05:09

but many times many people or most of the people these days they check what

00:05:11--> 00:05:29

they do is they turn tables or there was scenario they will say to themselves yesterday forget started at 119 So, it is likely that forget to start at the same time today

00:05:30--> 00:05:31

agree or not?

00:05:33--> 00:05:39

Yeah, what is this is this Shahada? What is it?

00:05:42--> 00:05:43

What is it

00:05:45--> 00:05:46


00:05:47--> 00:05:47


00:05:49--> 00:06:01

this is calculation yesterday it was like this today it will be plus or minus two minutes or something like this. So, this is the first point

00:06:03--> 00:06:05

the second point is

00:06:07--> 00:06:17

what is the source of this 18 degrees, the source of 18 degrees is coming from a global collective Misha.

00:06:18--> 00:06:29

So, the scholars in the past, they noticed that the time of the fader appears when the sun is 18 degrees below the horizon,

00:06:31--> 00:06:48

they found this in one country and another country in a third country and so on. Then they came up with the conclusion that whenever the sun is 80 degrees below the horizon, any part in the world then that is the start of the video.

00:06:51--> 00:06:51


00:06:52--> 00:06:55

I have not seen any scholar

00:06:57--> 00:07:00

who disagrees with this.

00:07:03--> 00:07:13

I haven't seen any of the previous scholars who said no, it should not be calculated according to this formula 18 degrees formula.

00:07:14--> 00:07:19

Some contemporary individual scholars

00:07:21--> 00:07:37

have disagreed with this. However, the contemporary counsels all of them agreed that it should be calculated according to 18 degrees or more.

00:07:39--> 00:07:40

The Egyptian

00:07:41--> 00:07:42

the Egyptian

00:07:44--> 00:07:53

astronomical agency something like this. In fact, they believe that the Federal time comes at 19 degrees.

00:07:55--> 00:08:00

But all other which means that the Federal should be earlier

00:08:01--> 00:08:03

the ledger should be earlier.

00:08:04--> 00:08:16

All other councils and committees that calculate the solid timing, believe that federal time starts at a teen degrees.

00:08:19--> 00:08:42

So if this formula is the formula that have been adopted by the overwhelming majority of scholars from the past, and the overwhelming majority of counselors, Council's these days, then no one can say well,

00:08:44--> 00:09:06

the opinion of so on. So from some of the level around us, who confirmed that it should be it should be seen. And they have produced some time tables regarding that no one should say I will follow them. And I will not follow the overwhelming majority of scholars.

00:09:07--> 00:09:29

Yeah. Even if the person doesn't see that their opinion is right. He should abandon his opinion to their opinions. Because there is no until now. There is no fifth Council. Yeah, or fifth Academy

00:09:31--> 00:09:32


00:09:33--> 00:09:37

confirm that federal timing starts before 18 degrees.

00:09:39--> 00:09:45

To be honest with you, two years ago, the European Council for federa

00:09:47--> 00:09:56

the European Council for research and federa. Chef Corrado is one they came up with the decision to calculate the federal timing

00:09:58--> 00:09:59

on 12 degrees.

00:10:00--> 00:10:00


00:10:02--> 00:10:39

And if you read why they did this, you will find out that the 18 formula is the correct formula. Why? Because they depended on one person to search this masala, Dr. Hawaii. And if you go to their original researches that have been published and you go to the research delivered by Hawaii, you will see that this doctor

00:10:41--> 00:10:46

surveyed all the opinions of the scholars who

00:10:48--> 00:11:05

spoke about the federal timing and the timing. And he confirmed that all of them or the overwhelming majority say that the Federal timing should be calculated according to what 18 degrees.

00:11:06--> 00:11:16

Okay, this man is a well known martial law in in astronomy and science. But he is not known as a scholar.

00:11:18--> 00:11:46

In his paper, he came up with this conclusion. But then he started to get into HD heart. And he made his own HD heart, whereby he concluded that the right time for Asia as sorry, whereby he concluded that we can adopt that 12 degrees for Mila. It's the year.

00:11:48--> 00:11:58

Yeah. This is the only the only council that came up with this. Apart from this, I don't know of any Council,

00:11:59--> 00:12:05

which says that, which says different from the teen DVDs formula.

00:12:06--> 00:12:12

Now, calculating federal, according to the 18 degree formula

00:12:15--> 00:12:17

leads us to the fact that federal

00:12:21--> 00:12:27

goes down or comes as the as one o'clock.

00:12:28--> 00:12:32

Yeah, 16 minutes or 60 minutes past one.

00:12:34--> 00:12:37

Yeah, this is on 24th of may

00:12:38--> 00:12:40

16 minutes past one.

00:12:41--> 00:12:48

Now from 24th of May, until 17th of July,

00:12:49--> 00:12:55

the time for the beginning of failure disappears.

00:12:56--> 00:12:57


00:12:58--> 00:12:58

the sun

00:13:00--> 00:13:02

leaves or sets

00:13:03--> 00:13:05

by the matter of time.

00:13:06--> 00:13:09

And it doesn't go on

00:13:10--> 00:13:21

here. If you are on, as we see, we doesn't see that the sun goes far below the horizon.

00:13:23--> 00:13:32

And that's why the rays of the sun from the the the east

00:13:34--> 00:13:45

as well as the rays of the sun from the west will mix will mix and hence we are unable to identify

00:13:46--> 00:13:49

the end of the the end of the mothership

00:13:51--> 00:13:54

which is Jeff LACMA, which is direct Twilight.

00:13:56--> 00:14:01

And moreover, the beginning of the Asia because Asia begins when

00:14:05--> 00:14:06

once the chef

00:14:08--> 00:14:18

disappeared, and cefaclor doesn't doesn't disappear. And we want to be able to identify the beginning of the Federal.

00:14:19--> 00:14:26

So when the sun sets, its rates are mixed with what

00:14:30--> 00:14:40

its race will be mixed, which is Yanina shefa, LACMA cefaclor is the rays of the sun of the set setting.

00:14:41--> 00:14:59

The those rays will be mixing with what with the rays of the sun, just before it comes in from the east, which is what and in fact you saw them they will mix together. So there is no a clear start. For as we said,

00:15:00--> 00:15:03

The beginning of Asia and

00:15:04--> 00:15:05

beginning of February

00:15:09--> 00:15:10

beginning of February.

00:15:11--> 00:15:29

So, what to do in this case what to do? Because the beginning of the year is not not some scholar said go for a year some scholar said go for academic in the nearest place where the federal is what

00:15:31--> 00:15:32


00:15:34--> 00:15:41

now, operable a formula doesn't work why because

00:15:43--> 00:15:49

for us here in London confirms that failure will be around

00:15:50--> 00:15:52

120 something

00:15:53--> 00:15:55

yeah plus or minus

00:15:56--> 00:15:57

a young

00:15:58--> 00:16:10

for people who live in Norway in north of Norway as a young defender, it starts at what 230

00:16:11--> 00:16:24

So, we will be stopping eating and drinking at 116 or 118 while the people up north

00:16:26--> 00:16:31

they will continue eating and drinking until what 230

00:16:32--> 00:16:37

and this is wrong because we

00:16:38--> 00:16:40

in London or what

00:16:42--> 00:16:43

on the in the south.

00:16:44--> 00:16:49

So, the days for us are quiet what a

00:16:51--> 00:16:54

lot shorter and then eyes are quite longer

00:16:56--> 00:17:08

It is impossible that we start our fasting at 118 or something like this and the people up north

00:17:09--> 00:17:16

they continue eating and drinking until what 230 It is impossible.

00:17:18--> 00:17:19

Are you following this point?

00:17:22--> 00:17:34

Yes No. Okay. So, therefore, we need to what we need to check the formula of American carefully

00:17:36--> 00:17:41

the nearest place the nearest location where by

00:17:42--> 00:17:53

our faithful abiel from PayPal as what are distinguished and the beginning of February time is clearly identified and distinguished.

00:17:55--> 00:17:56


00:17:57--> 00:18:07

So, we need to go for that which is the cities that are on our same long get you

00:18:08--> 00:18:18

because the longitude gives you the nearest place to you longitude and the nearest latitude where by

00:18:20--> 00:18:24

start is clearly identified.

00:18:26--> 00:18:44

And when we calculate this, we will find that in London and it is the case in most of the UK cities. Yeah. Forget the start at 108.

00:18:46--> 00:18:48

So the correct time to start trading

00:18:50--> 00:18:53

in London and most of the

00:18:55--> 00:18:57

UK cities

00:18:58--> 00:19:01

is to start further around 108

00:19:08--> 00:19:09

is difficult.

00:19:18--> 00:19:19


00:19:25--> 00:19:26

Yeah, we will be

00:19:28--> 00:19:33

will be at 924 in London. Yeah.

00:19:34--> 00:19:46

And then we will stop at one at 108 35 in I think we calculated the time in Aberdeen. No.

00:19:48--> 00:19:54

No. in Glasgow in Scotland.

00:19:55--> 00:19:59

I think they start fasting sorry.

00:20:00--> 00:20:03

They break their first 10

00:20:05--> 00:20:06

I think

00:20:09--> 00:20:11

something may be a team past 10

00:20:15--> 00:20:16


00:20:17--> 00:20:18

Something like this.

00:20:20--> 00:20:24

something positive. And what?

00:20:26--> 00:20:30

break their past or stop eating at 1.8

00:20:33--> 00:20:39

Yeah, last year a sister rang me from a city in Norway.

00:20:41--> 00:20:44

And they were breaking their forecast

00:20:45--> 00:20:46

at around

00:20:48--> 00:20:48


00:20:49--> 00:20:50


00:20:52--> 00:20:55

11 something because they have one.

00:20:57--> 00:20:58

They have one hour difference.

00:21:00--> 00:21:06

They would break their fast around two to something 208 or

00:21:09--> 00:21:11

so yeah, Mashallah. They will eat and drink.

00:21:14--> 00:21:14

No, no, no.

00:21:17--> 00:21:24

Less than three hours, just less than three hours by last year they interview the person

00:21:27--> 00:21:27


00:21:29--> 00:21:31

Greenland, is it the Greenland?

00:21:33--> 00:21:34

He said

00:21:36--> 00:21:38

that he's fasting 23 hours?

00:21:40--> 00:21:51

Yeah, they interviewed him in a zero. We are not saying this. For those countries who have complete light, complete.

00:21:53--> 00:22:01

day light. Yeah, 24 hour daylight. We say to them, they can.

00:22:02--> 00:22:05

We came up with a formula for them.

00:22:07--> 00:22:14

We came up with a formula for them to calculate something called the shortest shot a night.

00:22:15--> 00:22:20

And the shortest shot a night we found it is around two hours.

00:22:21--> 00:22:29

So they should calculate their day to be around 22 hours. And their night

00:22:31--> 00:22:32

for about two hours.

00:22:38--> 00:22:43

It is difficult by but the reward of the one

00:22:45--> 00:22:54

who give sadaqa of 1000 pounds. And he has 1000 pound 500. It's only it's bigger than the one who gives up

00:22:56--> 00:23:00

by one pound, and he has millions. So

00:23:01--> 00:23:04

idea will be calculated based on what

00:23:06--> 00:23:11

difficulty This is provided that the intention is acceptable for all.

00:23:13--> 00:23:15

By any way The conclusion is.

00:23:17--> 00:23:24

As I was speaking to some brothers today, and this issue of federal timing is always discussed before.

00:23:26--> 00:24:05

I said to them, I don't know. I haven't heard of any solid argument regarding calculating the federal timing these days to be around the three o'clock or something to three o'clock 240 or 230. I haven't seen any solid argument and if you ask those who go for this opinion, you will not find any solid argument. Some people say it's just one o'clock It is impossible. Why it is impossible. is not the No.

00:24:06--> 00:24:12

Yeah, yes not not the norm is not that is not the criteria because not

00:24:13--> 00:24:16

to have around 10 o'clock is not the norm.

00:24:18--> 00:24:23

It's not the norm what is not the norm maybe and so the area but here it is no. So

00:24:24--> 00:24:36

yeah, similarly, if mother is too late for it, it would be too early because the sun comes up from here and disappears from here or sets sets from here and comes up from here.

00:24:37--> 00:24:48

But unfortunately, I have not come up with or I haven't seen a solid argument to support to that view. That's why I strongly believe that it is not a matter of is

00:24:50--> 00:24:55

that the correct opinion is something around one o'clock.

00:24:58--> 00:24:59

So forgive me

00:25:00--> 00:25:05

lamda will be in sha Allah will start at 108

00:25:07--> 00:25:11

in London will start at one or eight until

00:25:13--> 00:25:20

the last 10 days of Ramadan. It will start move or the last seven days of mobile