Fiqhi Debate – Part 2

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Hacene Chebbani

Channel: Hacene Chebbani

Topics: Comparative Religion,Fiqh

Episode Notes

Interest Based Mortgages for buying homes in Western Societies

Episode Transcript

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Nairobi lar Amina salatu salam O Allah chef mo serene, senior Mohammed water and he was Sufi as you may

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say, inshallah tonight we'll continue with our program the fifth debate

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about using interest based mortgages for buying homes in Western societies.

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Allah subhanaw taala and you will click on

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the sofa when you genuine alhaja with Zillow ill

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I pray to Allah subhanaw taala to bless us with his loss. It was a loss feel cold your Lamin

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will endure is O'Connell added Madelaine need to have good manners with the people of knowledge.

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They lost time.

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Okay, rarely Can you a minute, one of the good drivers. When there is disagreement, or people are confused about different opinions. One of the good drivers is to say alum Aaron and have to have can work nativa or Arenal bought it about Elon was Jacques Machina.

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So asking the last panel data to show you the truth, and help you to follow the truth and to show you a false hood and help you to avoid it.

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Playing last time, we're talking about

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the six arguments of these group of scholars, this group of scholars who said that it is permissible for Muslims to buy their homes through these mortgages from conventional banks, interest based mortgages, if no Islamic alternatives are available. So this is basically the network of these scholars and we said this decision was made in a session that was organized by European Council of federal research. In

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November, a guest was November or October 1999. And the second one took place. The second conference took place in North America, in Michigan in Detroit. And it was by North American done by North American organization. And the timing between the two conferences was around three weeks.

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And one of the most famous scholars who adopted this fatwa is we said Yusuf al qaradawi.

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So when we talked about this subject Last time, we emphasized the importance of two principles. And I would like to repeat them now for those who did not attend the first half hour with us. And for as a reminder, as a reminder for everyone,

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to everyone. So the the first principle is that as Muslims, we are not supposed to follow the mistakes of Muslim scholars. And the second principle that we still even if we disagree with them, or other early on, or students of knowledge have the right to disagree with them, they still have to treat them with respect. So these two principles are very important. So we don't agree with a student of knowledge, don't agree with the Fatah was of some scholars and they start bashing them. No, and they attack their honor and dignity and try to put them down. We don't agree with this behavior. With these manners. These manners are not accepted in the dino philos panna cotta Allah

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because Allah subhanaw taala has promised to has promised to forgive to forgive the mistakes with the people of knowledge and Muslims in general. When Allah Subhana Allah when we you know, the famous two are in Surah Al Baqarah, you know, at the end of sort of Bukhara, urban Allah to Athena in the center, Athena Allah subhanho wa Taala do not punish us, if we forget, or make a mistake, and Allah subhanaw taala, in a hadith could see, said that I have accepted this prayer. So and there are some other idealer that some scholars have that there is a Hadith, another Hadith that says that if a scholar makes his effort to reach the right conclusion, but made a mistake, then he will be given

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one reward. But if he reaches the right, fatwah the right conclusion that his reward he will get, his reward will be doubled. And this is an authentic hadith from Rasulullah sallallahu wasallam. So we don't try to deal with the intentions of the people of scholars. We don't talk about their personalities. We just deal with problems with the fat house. With with fatwas with knowledge, we don't deal with people. We just we discuss ideas and

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rulings what we don't discuss people will allow you to add an element. I believe this is the best methodology.

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This is methodology of Alison Knoll Gemma, and this is the safe side we even in later, like we said the first permis that was our argument that was used what was attributed to Imam Abu hanifa. And some other people have knowledge of the permissibility of dealing via invalid contracts. in Dar Al Harb, including dealing with river that'll have means the land of war but we said that Abu hanifa has only a dual division, land of Islam and Darren Hardy, other scholars, they divide land into three types. He said we have done Islam and the land of Islam and the land of war and the land of treaty and peace.

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The second one we said the principle of treating need has like a necessity in allowing the forbidden and the third argument he said what is whatever is prohibited as a means towards evil may be allowed out of neat maharrey Ma Li zi

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katju Hello produce vo halaal and El Hadji and whatever was essentially and fundamentally prohibited can only be permitted be permitted out of necessity.

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So and the fourth argument, they said the Muslims is not the Muslim is not obliged under the Sharia to establish civil, financial and political laws and other such matters which are related to the general system in a society which does not accept Islam. So we said the Rebbe, the matters of Riba are parts of you know, this, you know, problems and he's not a Muslim is not supposed to, you know, he's not he will not be taken to account in the Day of Judgment

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regarding these issues, because not they are not within his capacity to deal with or to change, actually.

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But a Muslim is required to establish the rulings which concern him personally, such as those of ritual worship, prayer and food and drink and dress and so on. But this is the fourth argument. And the second, the fifth one, they said, the consequences of not dealing with this invalid contracts, including River at the Muslim holding fast to Islam, because becomes a cause of his economic weakness. So he will be paying the rent to someone who has taken a loan or mortgage from the bank. So the land load will be will become more powerful economically. And the Muslim will become weaker, because he's paying rent, and he's not making the investment. And at the end, his landlord will have

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his house, it's a big investment, or you might sell it for 300,000 400,000. And Muslim will have nothing in his account, basically, and this is the idea.

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And the last one, he said the overall benefits which will result from the permissibility of owning houses in this way, that he mentioned some benefits, you might agree with them or disagree the protection of one's religion, Islamic personality, improvement of the Muslims living conditions,

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liberation from the economic shackles upon them. So they will fulfill the obligation of the hour. And they will continue to be concerned mainly concerned about the hour take part in building the society at large.

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And

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then they will deserve to be called the base nation brought forth for mankind. Now, today, we will deal with some observations regarding these arguments. And then we deal with the first premise in this halakha. The first observation shift selasa we saying here that we are dealing with two mutually inconsistent premises. So there is a contradiction between the first argument and the second argument. The first argument for the sake of argument, we say we're going to accept the metaphor of the said, Muslims are allowed to deal with invalid contracts with non Muslims in the land in a non Muslim land.

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So but the INF set, not all of them like Abu Yusuf, who was a brilliant scholar, one of the brilliant students of Abu hanifah Rahmatullah named Jimmy Han Abu Youssef refused and rejected this opinion. But I mean, Abu hanifah Rahmatullah Lee. And what is this is what is attributed to Barney allow alamanni because it found the statement in a lawsuit is surfacey and some other hanafy sources but nothing

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Coming from Abu hanifa himself. So I didn't see a statement like Abu hanifa says and this is the Hadith with a narration chain of narration Allah Allah didn't see something like that. But these opinions are attributed, it's better it's more safer to say they are attributed to Abu hanifa because we don't know exactly allow anime for more hanifa made such statement or not. But for the sake of argument, they said let's accept this argument now here. So, the NF or some of the Hanafi scholars, they said Actually, this transaction is accepted all times at all times and the times of ease and when you have a choice, not only at the time of need, when you don't have alternatives, but

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the second argument, the second argument, which which is about treating need, like a necessity and allowing the four forbidden the when they use it when these scholars used this argument, they said actually, Riba is haram and Muslims are not supposed to deal with Riba Muslims are not supposed to deal with this kind of contracts. But if there is a need, and there is no other way, and no alternatives are available, when Muslims are permitted to deal with this kind of contracts. So we see where is the contradiction here? That's the first argument says it's Halloween all the time.

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Okay, all the time, whether you need it or you don't need it, but here the second argument is saying only at a time of need, which sends a message that they really don't believe in the first argument because they are stressing the concept of need and hazard and other alternatives are not are not available.

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The second observation they said the effect on efforts to establish alternatives what is the effect of this federal on the efforts to establish altar basically they said if we adopt this federal

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the observation here if we adopt this federal Muslims will become lazy

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and they will stop looking for alternatives.

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If everyone is happy with this federal a Okay, everyone, let's go and buy houses through these mortgages, then no one will think about you know, about making alternatives and find an establishing alternatives for Muslims and actually share some karabo himself. In the other book, that is called bank interest is prohibited. Usually, in his book, he said he was actually refuting the federal of the Egyptian Mufti when he said the interest bank is Hara. So in his book, he said the most amazing this is the statement of shift Harada himself.

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He said, the most amazing thing is the readiness of some of the people of knowledge to take up this trend, helping to destroy Islamic thought resurgence and Institute's even though they do not realize it, or mean it.

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So he himself, he was talking about the, you know, the dangerous path of this kind of fatality, these kinds of fatalities might lead to the destruction of alternatives, Islamic alternatives. So he himself made this statement in his book, and it was page, page 26.

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titled The third observation, they said this federal might open the door to further concessions, because when we talk about invalid contracts, we talk about dealing with river, selling alcohol, selling pork, selling other things that are Haram. You can think about all the invalid contracts. So if you say this is Helen, how about the other contracts? Because this is the first word, the first word of the some Hanafi scholars that a Muslim is permitted in a non Muslim land, not all of them, I said, like abusive, as I said, it's a great scholar and Hanafi madhhab said no, he rejected this federal and many other Hanafi scholars too. So if if this is Helen, then how about the other invalid

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contracts? So they said that this lecture will open the door to further concessions, people will take it easy, and they will lose their Islamic identity in the West because every everything will become become Heller in the West in Western societies.

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And of course, the scholars did not mean it this way.

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can shave himself he said I'm sure I'm confident that the scholars who came up with

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This federal did not mean that people should take this path.

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So he doesn't think he doesn't have a bad opinion about these collars. He believes he sir firmly believes that these collars do not mean to open the door for all Muslims to deal with invalid contracts in this in this society.

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Now, let's the shift then on page 16. He started talking discussing the evidence is the proofs of some Hanafi scholars. Why what is the background of this federal, everything every federal law has, must have some background right, some rules, some evidence, so the sheriff the the first observation that he said that he made that he said the problem in these conferences to conferences, this federal itself or this opinion was not discussed. Was he to valid or not valid? And this is not the methodology of aniline. This is not the methodology fallacy. No, Gemma,

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when you come to an A using a you don't discuss, you said it's valid or not valid, because this is the first from the Quran, this is the original source of Sharia, you come to authentic hadith, you deal with it, you accept it, you have to accept it right.

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And each man, there is an Asian man that was reported a binding ismar. So you accept it as a Muslim because this is the third, the third, no source of legislation in Islam and chaos, if it is valid, if it is strong, and it is made by qualified scholars, it is accepted in Sharia. But when it comes to an opinion of a scholar, so there earlier, the method of the methodology, part of the methodology of the irlam didn't accept it without any proof,

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especially if it is controversial, if it is debatable, so they don't say I'm a felon, okay, what is we discussing your matter here? And we say, Okay, my Malik said, it's Helen, or it's Haram, and then we accept it. No, this is not the methodology. I mean, it couldn't be accepted for someone who is not a student of knowledge, who is not scholar. If someone is not a scholar, you know, he doesn't have to ask the Imam or the alum, what is your proof? Unless if he's a student of knowledge, and he said, I want to learn, he tells this scholar I want to learn I want to learn my team. So tell me what is the proof behind this federal ruling? That's okay, with Adam with good manners hamdulillah.

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But hand me a layman. He doesn't have to alert me the afternoon and lamba and must have a lamb he must have a menu of tea. And if someone is not specialized in Sharia and he's not student of knowledge. And you know, the Sharia is not telling me you have to learn to proof of everything, if every ruling. What is his obligation is to go to the people of knowledge whom he trusts.

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And then ask them about Sharia rulings and access, if you trust the knowledge and their taekwon and their qualifications, that would be enough for him if he's not student of knowledge. But if he's not flawless or scholar, then he has to look for the proof. And these people here are people of knowledge, people who came together for this conference are people of knowledge many of them are PhD holders, and they are students of knowledge. So they have to discuss this issue at least. So the scholar said any shifts Allah saw is that the problem is the first problem is, this paper was accepted as it is without any discussion. And analyst pantalla said if you differ in anything, refer

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it to Allah and His messenger. If you believe in Allah on the last day, if there is a disagreement between scholars, so what is the right methodology? Allah subhanaw taala is saying refer to Allah how do we refer to Allah will refer to, to the Quran, the Book of Allah subhanaw taala. And if we don't find anything about it in the Quran, then we refer it to the Messenger of Allah, but the Messenger of Allah has passed away is not with us we refer to his pseudonym, but as I said, this is the work of scholars the work of scholars the ruler man, because there are people now young people especially young people, who learn some acronyms and Hadith and they start refuting the opinions of

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other scholars or maybe making big statement and and bashing some scholars. And as I said, as I said, this is not a valid is not accepted is not is rejected in the deen of Allah subhanaw taala.

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Then if we talk about disagreement, we have beautiful rule here that is mentioned in a beach charity

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in some poetry, Lola mokulua Lisa colloquy laughing Jia amaura tabara illa Allah founder who have known me

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Another thing, he said not every disagreement is acceptable only a disagreement which is plausible, which is accepted which is credible, or apparently valid. So not every disagreement is validated or accepted by the scholars of Islam. There is a disagreement then they look at the reels are the proofs of the odema who disagreed about that specific and particular massala.

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The second comment, he said the stronger majority view is opposed to this permis

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What did he mean by it? He said all the other scholars from the other modality and including some Hanafi scholars like Abu Yusuf Rahmatullah Lee, all of them are against this opinion. they disagreed with an Imam Abu hanifa and his student Mohammed bin Hassan Shivani about this mess Allah so they said Riba is haram all the times the Riba is haram and every place and every land and what is their what are their the reels, what are their proofs? The first one they said the text is sacred texts are the divine texts are absolute. Must underline the Quran says haram Allahu Riba. Hello, hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Well hello mareeba so Allah, Allah Hara mareeba he made Riba forbidden, right?

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And this is an absolute text. We don't see any exception here and in this text in the Quran, so there really is are very strong. The second one, they said the second delete the prohibition of Riba applies to non Muslims, actually, as it does to Muslims, too. According to the verses of the Quran, Allah subhanaw taala said about the people of the book. And they're thinking of Riba, when they have been had they had been forbidden to do so. And they are devouring the wealth of the people in justly. So Allah Subhana Allah has cursed some of the people of the book, not all of them. Because of this, he has forbidden them to deal with Riba but he dealt with rebar. So it is haram for them to

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Christians and Jews and all other people who follow the other scriptures. It is haram for them to deal with Riba it is not allowed for them. And they said they mentioned another delille the food of those who were given the Scripture is lawful for you that we have means that we have coming from Jewish people and Christians is Hillel, if it is done,

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you know, according their you know, priorities are properly and your food is lawful for them. This is all really matter. But that's not a this is not another this is another issue. This is not, you know,

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our topic today. But this is the deal, that the last panel that has imposed upon them, or commanded them to follow some rulings and they will be asked about on the day of judgment about their Cofer if they are Kufa or if there are Muslims, like those who follow the Salah Sarah unfold Moosa, there are Muslims, so they will be among Muslims, you know, but those who made Coover and also did not follow the rulings of the Sharia, they will be taken to account for both for Cofer and for not following the rulings of Sharia, at least their own Sharia, if they live after a before the coming of Muhammad sallallahu alayhi wasallam.

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And

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so, and we have the hadith of Rasulullah, sallAllahu, alayhi wasallam, in which he says it tequila hifu account, Fear Allah, wherever you may be, this is a delille that we have to fear a las panatela whether we are in a Muslim country, or in a non Muslim country,

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for you,

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the second or the third,

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you know, the lead for this group of people. We said actually, if we allow Muslims to deal with Riba, a non Muslim land with non Muslims, and we said, and we forbid this transaction in a Muslim land or between Muslims, what will happen will be imitating those who allowed this transaction with non Jewish people, for example, but they have forbidden this transaction between between the Jews. And this is what they attribute to Musa alayhis salam in the book of Deuteronomy in the Old Testament, Chapter 23. We have these texts attributed to Moosa, we believe that Musa did not make such a statement, Musa alayhis salam. We believe that he did not make such a statement, but this is

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what has been attributed to him. In the Old Testament. The first deck says you should not learn to your brother upon usually

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They usually have silver, they usually have food usually, if anything which is learned upon usually, you should not learn to your brother. But this is not clear but the second one is clear. The second tax is very clear. The stranger,

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non Jewish member of the community, the stranger, you may lend him upon usually

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someone who is not a Jew, you can land him upon usually, but your brother, you shall not lend to him upon usually that the Lord your God may bless you.

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So, there was a man who talked about these texts, they said this is double standard. These double standard is not accepted in Islam. This manipulation is not accepted in Islam, and one of those scholars actually scholars who refuted this double standard issue Carranza himself in his previous book book, the bank interest is prohibited. Riba, he said from the blessing of Islam, this is his statement from the blessing of Islam to humanity is that here it has prohibited Riba totally and utterly. In fact, it has prohibited everything that leads to it or supports it, like mastering the witness witnessing or writing the document, the contract or anything that might lead to this or help

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or support this contract,

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and has not stated as the corrupted texts of the Torah says that Riba is prohibited in the mutual dealings amongst the Israelis, but permitted when they deal with others, rather Islam as prohibited Riba in every transaction with a with a Muslim, or a non Muslim, for Islam does not appear with two faces, and is not measured with double standards. So this is the statement of the share himself. No, he said that Islam does not accept this double standard that Riba is haram with everyone.

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The third comment about this dilemma about this argument

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it's about the evidence is used to support this argument. So the use the heavy use of macoun Larry babina Muslim ban and Muslim on Harvey federal hub so there is no Riba between a Muslim and Harvey inderal Hara.

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So and the earlier they said, This is the main actually the main evidence but the odometer the people of knowledge have rejected this hadith based on what a chef said about it, the evidence used by Abu Yusuf for Abu hanifa his position even abusive did not agree with Abu hanifa but they said this is the delete one of the evidences. So Mr. Chef, he said it is not the frantically established so there is no proof in it. And a man has a Larry who is a Hanafi scholar he said it's a very it has no basis and never we said about it morsel and brief morsel means disconnected and brief means weak. So there is no proof in it. And aney in in in Albania. And I guess Elena is one of the Hanafi

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scholars. He says this is a very Hadith how having no Muslim foundation.

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So this is the statement of some rule ama aroma of Hades who said this actually this hadith is weak. The second argument or comment about this hadith for the sake of argument, even if it is authentic, this is the meaning it does not mean that Riba is halal between a Muslim and a non Muslim in a non Muslim land. We said because Allah subhanaw taala we have deleted in the Quran when Allah subhanaw taala was talking about Hajj, and has you assured manomet femen follow the fiend and has your fella Rafa, Rafa, so Allah Allah said has is known is in no man's so whoever performs the duty of Hazzard there, there is no obscenity there no there is no obscenity. So obscenity is haram for the one who

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is performing has or wickedness or argumentation in hash. But Allah Allah said follow arafa whatever sukawati the NFL has law, so and the head is saying Larry bainer and Muslim will have a feeder and heroin you know, so they're saying even if it is, so it means that there should be no river that it is Hara this this is the right meaning and how do we know it's right meaning because there is no contradiction between the divine texts Allah baccara sources and other sources is saying is the Rebbe Hara and these are verses of the Quran, but this is a heady even if it is sorry,

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there should be no contradiction, because it also lies on the lower level Salem does not say something that is that goes against the the verses of the Quran.

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So this is their second this is his second. No comment about this daily. Is it clear

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By we will give you time for your question salad and if you have something in mind keep it and then we'll talk about it at

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the end inshallah. The next evidence

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that they said that Rasulullah sallallahu alayhi wa sallam invalidated the Rebbe of lab s his uncle. During the farewell Hush, and the farewell Hajj took place in the 10th year of the Asia after the age of Rasulullah sallallahu it was in his cineleisure alasia.

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So, but he said that rebar was forbidden in the six or seven year

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on the day of Hiva,

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the husband of hyper and the husband of hyper took place on the sixth or the seventh year.

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Now, they said and Mecca was dar Hara was a land of war at the time before a mecca was opened or conquered by Muslims in the eighth year, but also Lhasa Selim made the statement about the river, the river transactions of his ankle ilab bass in the 10th year often of of the history of Rasulullah sallallahu, the history of Rasulullah sallallahu when he was making hash, so we said this is a proof that the lab bass was dealing he was Muslim, and he was hiding his Islam by the way in Makkah, he was hiding his Islam and this is a proof that he was dealing with river

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and also last assalamu he till the firewall has to invalidate or a new, very Bremer transactions to fill at best. So this is a delille with the USD. So the comments about this delay in the they said there is no indication there is no daily there is no proof that elaborate sir the Allahu anhu continued to deal with Riba upon Riba after embracing Islam. There is no clear proof that after he accepted Islam, he continued dealing with river

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he did not quit. There is no proof that the Lee says that was at best used to deal with river in Mecca in the city of Makkah, at which time during which time

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it could be before the establishment of the forbidden sub river since it was

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established in the six year old. And he was in Makkah at the time, didn't have internet didn't have phones, you know, didn't have this technology to talk to each other. Hey,

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Riba is haram, you have to quit. Now, the nav this used to live in Makkah, and also Lhasa Selim lived in Medina, so there was no connection between them until they moved to Makkah in the eighth year until Macau was conquered in the eighth year, Then may I bet, maybe you found out about this new ruling will allow to add on.

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So another argument in other comments, they said assuming for argument's sake that he did continue upon Riba he may not have known for the prohibition This is something that I mentioned that he was not aware of it will Oh Thailand, this is a good actually comment about it. And another comment, they said maybe the prohibition of Riba was not totally established in those days and this is true, because their earlier man he said actually the name of Riba was gradual like a hammer, Allah Subhana Allah did not forbid the river totally in one go in one shot one ayah No, Allah spent Allah mentioned something about river then he mentioned another air then he mentioned the if LA River and

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then actually the last verses were revealed in the during the eighth here after the mecca was conquered. A Salah Salem went outside to find to to, to fight with the tribal therapy from a thought. And then after they accepted Islam, the people of a thought if they said we're not going to quit, we were not going to forgive people. I mean, yes, we are not going to deal with rebar anymore. But if people if we also people, some money based on you know past transactions, when we are not going to forgive them, we still we still owe them this money and we need our money even if it is an increase based on this interest transactions. So Allah subhanaw taala after the statement after we

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made the statement, Allah Subhana Allah revealed those is in Surah Al Baqarah.

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This idea you will have in me no attempt to lower the rumor pm in a river in country meaning oh you who believe here a lot

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Give up, which remains usually if you are indeed believers. So this is in Surah Al Baqarah were revealed after the statement was made by the people of a tie. So they said actually the actually the ruling itself was not really established until Allah Subhana Allah revealed those is from 275 to 281. But the ones that are about the people have thought if they're, you know, this is specifically about them. Yang Lavina Amano Tacoma was

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in control, meaning

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and they said it was no known it is not related at all that the companions are the Allahu anhu ever dealt in Riba with the people of Al Hara, this is not something that is known. So it is something that was attributed to Evan at best, when we have a delete, and these daily beers, and many, you know,

00:36:03--> 00:36:22

possibilities, we have a rule in Sharia and also in fact, adelino either taraka in a Latina sakata v listed here, this is a fairly Maxim a daily to either therapy lady female, SATA, SATA v listed here, which means when an evidence base different possibilities,

00:36:23--> 00:36:36

it has different explanations, different implications, and all of them are valid with equal force and strength, then it is not possible it is not accepted to select only one possibility.

00:36:38--> 00:37:01

This is the meaning of this ruling. So here we have the case of numbers, which bears many possibilities, maybe he didn't know about the ruling and maybe the ruling was itself was not established, there are many possibilities here. So, when the Delhi is open to this possibilities, it cannot be used

00:37:02--> 00:37:08

for one possibility, because you cannot leave the other possibilities because they have equal force and strength.

00:37:09--> 00:37:45

So, this is a key Maxim that is used, it doesn't mean that this delete could it should be rejected, no, it could be valid, it could be authentic. So remember, they said no, it doesn't mean that this delay should be rejected at all, because it could be used for another masella another matter another 15 matter. So that the lien should be kept because it is authentic, but since it has has no clear indication, it has different possibilities, different implications. So it is not permissible to use it for a particular possibility, will love to Allah alum

00:37:46--> 00:38:36

and this is a beautiful actually, you know, rule that we we use it with this kind of the leaves proofs that are not clear. The other comment, and this is something that has to do with the soul. You need to bear with me and I the students knowledge need to know these things. The Hanafi scholars themselves, they have a rule. They have a rule they have a 50 rule, or that is part of the soul or soul effect. The sad dilemma to me on a Friday diletto Kataria life is so heavy Delhi levani. This is something heavy, but we'll do try to simplify it in Sharla. We said the indication of a general text of its individual instances is conclusive evidence.

00:38:37--> 00:39:06

That means what Allah subhanaw taala said haram Allahu Riba. It's a general statement. It's a general text that means all the individual types of Riba have to be Haram. And then the delille is inclusive for every type of river that is that could be done in every situation in every place. This is based on their own rules. So because we have conclusive

00:39:07--> 00:39:24

evidence is conclusive proves and we have speculative proves. I don't like the word speculative in English. But in Arabic, it's called the real funny then infamy could be not well established. Or it could be its indication is not conclusive.

00:39:25--> 00:39:55

Okay, but they are the Hanafi scholars, they believe what all the ayat of the Quran are conclusive proofs, because they are in the Quran. They could have a speculative indication when the AI is not clear, but they are well established. Why because the Quran is mutawatir. What is mutawatir is anything that was reported by a group of people, the mind or the intellect does not accept the fact that they could have

00:39:56--> 00:39:59

come together and made up a fabrication.

00:40:00--> 00:40:04

I'll give you an example. If you met someone, if you meet

00:40:05--> 00:40:14

40 people or 50 people, and everyone tells you that there is an accident that took place on the intersection of Memorial Drive and it met in trade,

00:40:16--> 00:40:29

you come to a conclusion that it is impossible that these people came together. They don't know each other. Some of them are Pakistani brothers. Some of them are Arabs, some of them are Somalis coming from different backgrounds.

00:40:30--> 00:40:51

If you reach the conclusion that it is impossible that all these people would come, they came together and made up this fabrication made up this story. It should be to, it must be true, actually. Because this is this is called motivated when we have a group of people within 60 hobbies who have narrated the Hadith.

00:40:53--> 00:40:54

And then we

00:40:55--> 00:41:45

pass it on to 100, Tabori, or 120. And then so on big numbers and narrating the Hadith. Thoroughly, Emily said we don't need to look at the snare of this hadith. We don't need to look at the snare. We shouldn't study this heavy to say if it is authentic or e4. Why? Because it is mutawatir a big group of people have narrated this Hadith, when the second generation we got a big number of they said this is the case of the Quran. A big group of sahabas are the Lord having organized the Quran. So it is a conclusive evidence. And so the Hanafi scholars, we believe that the Quran and the Hadith that is mutawatir all of them are conclusive evidences in this rule. In this basic rule, one of these

00:41:45--> 00:42:04

rule in there also, we said this conclusive evidence cannot be specified by speculative evidence. And what do you mean by speculative evidence? A heading that was narrated by a small group of people, how do you feel I had called had eaten a hat or ps? analogy? How do you tell

00:42:05--> 00:42:14

if a hadith is narrated by three people, two people, four people, there is a possibility right? That these people

00:42:15--> 00:42:59

made a mistake, right? In the narration of this Howdy. possibilities there, right. But 60 people 70 people lie, it's not possible, it's difficult to imagine that they would make all of them would make the same mistake. But there is a possibility that two people or three people or one person would make a mistake, they call them ahead ahead. So the second division of ahaadeeth we have had even mutawatir Hadith ahead. So they Hanafi scholars, they said, if we have deleted from the Quran, or mutawatir Hadith, this evidence is conclusive. It cannot be specified by a speculative or a non or an evidence that is not conclusive.

00:43:00--> 00:43:43

And that's why as a result, we rejected many authentic hadith. And if you pay you understand this rule, now you find excuses to the scholars, why there are differences sometimes between scholars. And you find sometimes Shafi and Hanafi and Hanbury and Maliki scholars in one side and Hanafi scholars on one side, because of these kinds of rules, the the delille is there. But we believe that there is something stronger than this delete the Hanafi mithuna in this case, we believe that the Delete is in the Quran is well established, it cannot be specified by had if I had but the other scholars are against this rule. They said no, if the hell it is ahead, if it is authentic, we accept

00:43:43--> 00:44:28

it because as soon as SLM has accepted the reports of individuals have sent people to Yemen have sent people to other tribes. And he has accepted the reports of individuals when it comes to Ramadan when it comes to a Shahada. You know, there are many proofs and something that is that we study in the in the in the subject of who Solon fifth, it's a beautiful subject. If we study it, then we understand the disagreement. Two sources of this disagreement or the backgrounds of these are the origins of these disagreements between scholars and will become more open minded with disagreements of scholars and we'll find excuses for the scholars and we ask Allah subhanaw taala to have mercy on

00:44:28--> 00:44:36

all of them. Right. But this is now what is what was all this has to do with our topic here.

00:44:37--> 00:44:59

He said How come this is the rule but they have accepted the ignore this rule here in this case? Because in this case, we have conclusive evidence from the Quran that says that Riba is haram. And these, these delila these proofs are absolute and based on the rule of the head, a maximum of the 100

00:45:00--> 00:45:47

scholars that all individual instances based under this IMF and Ramallah horiba, should be should be conclusive evidence should be Haram. No, there is no exception. And they cannot be specified by this kind of delete these kinds of weak evidence is the evidence of an adverse of the alojado or the other Hadees that was narrated by McCrone. So, this is the he said I don't know why did the hanafis oppose their own position in this issue regarding the evidence of the general text accepting the specification of general tax which decisively prohibitory by evidences which do not reach the level of valid proof neither in authenticity or indication by

00:45:49--> 00:45:52

I hope that this masala was clear

00:45:55--> 00:45:56

to a timeframe frame

00:45:58--> 00:46:00

five minutes okay.

00:46:03--> 00:46:49

There is another good point that a chef made he said the reason for the judgment, this judgment within our you know, with some Hanafi scholars, for example, if we accept it for the sake of argument is limited to the Muslims receiving an increase because what is their ala what is the background is that if they are in a state of war, when a Muslim is sipo is okay is he is permissible to try to weaken his his enemy to take his money, even if it is through invalid transaction. But he says he says it is limited to the Muslim receiving an increase from the harming. But it is not valid in the opposite case, when the Harvey is receiving an increase who is receiving an increase in this

00:46:49--> 00:46:55

case, when we have this contract with a bank, who is giving money extra money?

00:46:56--> 00:47:01

The Muslim is giving the increase? Not that he's not taking actually he's paying more.

00:47:02--> 00:47:17

Can you see the point here? So the actually the the this delete deals, all of them were misused. We're not using the right thing. The problem is, sometimes the Delete is true is authentic. But it is not used in the right context.

00:47:18--> 00:47:28

Using the Delete is the right in the right context is very important. Of course, here we're not blaming the Hanafi scholars, no, we're blaming those callers who use this argument.

00:47:29--> 00:47:47

Because their Hanafi scholars have made the rusty hat based on their conditions at that time. Right? They were blaming these callers now who have used this argument in the wrong context will load data. And this is based on what the chef said in his book.

00:47:49--> 00:47:54

He used another deli, quickly, I'll go through it. We said our workers said they

00:47:55--> 00:48:37

had met with with a machine regarding the domination of the Romans over the Persians in the Quran, Allah Subhana Allah said they you know, the Romans were defeated in one battle with the Persians in order to Rome, Allah subhanaw taala said in few years, the Romans will win the battle again, right. So this is something that will happen in the future. So the machico made fun of this statement said How do you know? So they made this betting with a worker and worker accepted this betting? So we paid money, right? This is kind of gambling, right? So they said, Oh, I will worker dealt with this contract and it is not valid. It's Haram.

00:48:39--> 00:48:49

And this is a deal that we are permitted. It is permissible to deal with invalid contracts with non Muslims or with people who we are in state of war with.

00:48:51--> 00:48:52

But

00:48:53--> 00:49:04

you know, there are these delille that the comments of the chef about this deli, this is their broker did something like that. But look at the one of the narrations of this hadith.

00:49:06--> 00:49:33

He said, near New macrium el eslami. He said some of the qure said to Abu Bakar. This is one of the version of this hadith that is between us and you. Your companion thinks your companion Mohammed Salah larussa thinks that the Romans will defeat the Persians in few years. Should we not bet on it? He said yes. He said yes. And look at the statement. And that was before the prohibition of gambling.

00:49:34--> 00:49:48

So our work is so deep was not dealing with an invalid contract. It was made invalid after right it was abrogated in us and that was before the prohibition of gambling. Time

00:49:50--> 00:49:59

to lay. He said even if it was not before the prohibition of gambling. This is not an invalid contract. This is a valid contract.

00:50:00--> 00:50:18

Chi Rahmatullah Allah based on what because also last SLM has allowed racing or gambling or you know, these kinds of competitions has actually he has forbidden these kind except in three cases, arrows throwing or spear throwing, and camels and horses.

00:50:20--> 00:51:04

Lhasa Laffy nurseline houfy now half if people are you know doing competitions with you know horses camels will have they are allowed to bet on them. But of course they are not allowed to do it in the sort of gambling they are not doing it. If If a government or organization is giving the prices then this is Helen, if one of the parties is given the price and the other one is not paying anything, it's Helen, if a third party join a group of people he's not paying anything. It is Helen if it isn't it is his participation is a serious participation. There is a possibility that this person who did not pay anything could win the competition. These cases are Hillel but the other cases the

00:51:04--> 00:51:30

lottery are the kind of competitions that they do in this in this society and not hallette Okay, so I will look at this ad will tie in said actually it's valid Why? Because he said he said as for the betting in which there is the domination of the symbols and if it is approves of Islam, such as the battle for our karate allow and in fact it is more legal than betting on fighting and horse and camel racing.

00:51:32--> 00:52:02

session has allowed these kinds of competitions and racing and said this is this kind of betting is done for the sake of the religion. And we wanted to prove that Russell Glasser seldom is saying the truth, said the truth and the Quran is true. So he's doing it not for his sake, he's doing it for the sake of religion. The other the other comment about this deli in the center as soon as SLM did not accept this money that came through through this betting. And he told him to get rid of it.

00:52:03--> 00:52:24

Give it in charity. He told our worker don't use it. And they said this is a delete that we're not supposed to their money, this money is not Helen even if we took it from a non Muslim in this case, right. So, the chef has said there is no delille actually in this, in this hadith will la hota Allah Allah

00:52:25--> 00:52:56

said due to this, the other widely followed mishaps did not accept the view of the some Hanafi scholars in this matter. And in fact, he said Abu Yusuf Rahmatullah LA, as I said, the he's a great scholar, a brilliant scholar in the Hanafi school of thought, he is the student of Abu hanifa. He was the great judge and great scholar at the time of Harun Rashid, the halifa and Rashid Sharif al Abbas, he rejected this view. And he rejected this view at all, like we were not supposed to deal with invalid,

00:52:57--> 00:53:16

you know, contract in non Muslim land in a non Muslim land. I mean, there are other things to talk about. But we have to stop here tonight. And I think we should I promise to give you you should give them five minutes. If you have a question, we'll

00:53:23--> 00:53:24

if you have a question.

00:53:28--> 00:53:30

Yeah, go ahead, brother. Go ahead.

00:53:40--> 00:53:43

If you are putting money in savings account or taking interest,

00:53:44--> 00:53:45

yeah, the pain chest

00:53:46--> 00:54:25

and then you, you are supposed to get rid of it. Don't use it, it's haram to use it. But But opening a savings account shouldn't be held unless we need it. There are some cases maybe we need to talk about some other details when people need it for our as RRSP or our ESP or there are cases. And we'll talk about that maybe later in a different program. But by itself, we shouldn't go if we have the choice shouldn't go for saving account because they give you you know, they give you a river. So checking checking accounts would be enough. And many banking institutions do not give interest

00:54:26--> 00:54:43

for people who have checking accounts with them, or loudhailer. So we shouldn't go for this option unless there is a need for it. And there could be a need when we deal with in some cases, as I said, you know, this kind of this kind of accounts RSP RSP, or something.

00:54:44--> 00:54:46

Yeah, Commissioner of law

00:54:49--> 00:54:50

cards

00:54:52--> 00:54:59

that you know, credit card and we pay the full amount, but they give cashback that

00:55:03--> 00:55:09

The brother He said, You know, there are credit cards, which give you cash back

00:55:10--> 00:55:12

and you borrow money from them

00:55:13--> 00:55:17

and then you use their card and they give you some cash back.

00:55:21--> 00:55:31

I'll tell you something, I don't believe now that we have an excuse to use those those non Sharia compliant credit cards. Why? Because we have the alternative.

00:55:33--> 00:55:35

We have the alternative halal alternative

00:55:36--> 00:55:38

and what is the halal alternative?

00:55:39--> 00:55:57

BM Oh Bank of Montreal is providing now a prepaid travel MasterCard, prepaid travel MasterCard, it has all the features of a credit card and you pay an annual fee of $6 or $7 only $7 which is highlighted because you are paying their services.

00:55:59--> 00:56:34

But you have to load it, it's prepaid you have to load it is easy to load it from your bank account deposit account with them from BM o account or any other account from a different source because most of the room are older room and he said this is not a Sharia compliant contract when he signed this contract with this credit card companies with those who said if there is a need, you can have one if you don't have another alternatives, because sometimes when you go to rent a room in a hotel, or you want to rent a car

00:56:35--> 00:57:21

in some cases the the the ask you to provide a credit card. So this and if you need it in this society and it is widely used when you can have one to fulfill this needs and necessities. They're not necessities, I mean you can because I rented a room in Montreal when I was coming back from Algeria just this one month ago, and I didn't use a credit card. They asked me to provide $100 cash as a security deposit and I gave them $100 when I was leaving they gave me my money back and I didn't have to use a credit card. But anyway if we need credit cards, we're traveling and we need them. This is the halal alternative now that is provided by b mo and B mo is well established

00:57:21--> 00:57:40

institution it's a it's a conventional bank, but it is well established it is not like the other small companies like Western Union and some other companies that provided prepaid people maybe don't feel comfortable dealing with their credit cards. But this case these cards is hilarious and it should be used instead of the other credit cards alone.

00:57:46--> 00:57:51

There is there is no difference but visit debit is not accepted all the time is not accepted as a credit card

00:57:54--> 00:58:15

permissibility because they it's your money you're using your money when you buy something that's fine. When you buy something from your account is a debit account. Actually I bought a book from Amazon and the dividend my account right away. So I didn't it's not a credit. It took my money from my account. So there is no difference. It's helpful to Yeah.

00:58:23--> 00:58:46

Is not because they said you are signing it's like you are giving your agreement approval to a non Sharia compliant agreement. I know you don't like it, you believe it's hard, but they said the fact me You are not allowed to sign it. You know, unless you are in in state of necessity. But now we don't have to go through these fatalities or use them because the alternative is available now.

00:58:48--> 00:59:10

By the way in UK I didn't use a credit card. I stayed there for one year, it had a debit Visa Debit and it was enough in all places in UK it was enough for me. But anyway here in Canada they don't accept it all the time. So the alternative will be this VMO prepaid travel whose car the last question then we make and we need to pray.

00:59:11--> 00:59:12

Yes brother.

00:59:21--> 00:59:31

The same usually whether it is 1% 2% 3% is all the same any increase is Hara above the principal, the capital.

00:59:32--> 00:59:39

And we talked about it in one session here about Riba we talked about Riba but it's all the same in in,

00:59:41--> 00:59:47

in secular laws here in the West, we have a difference between between

00:59:48--> 01:00:00

what is usually and what is not usually so if the company or the shop which charges within the clients certain amount which is 19% or 30% difference

01:00:00--> 01:00:34

It depends in which province you live if you if you try it we charge you 90% So, this is interest and it is accepted in the laws if if the the you know the company charges above this amount which is above 30% with a 35% in the law it is not legal and it is called usury. So, the first one they call is interest which is halal and permissible in their in their Sharia not halal in Islam.

01:00:35--> 01:01:02

But if it goes above and this you know, amount keeps on changing they keep on changing this amount so it's not based on divine tax will there are there are laws and regulations manmade laws and regulations. So when we like it or we don't like it we feel comfortable with something is okay let's change it. This is interest and this is what goes above this amount is usually so this is not accepted in the dean philosophy. All of it is haram all of it is usually

01:01:05--> 01:01:06

to be fair to the sisters.

01:01:12--> 01:01:31

So inshallah we'll, we'll talk about this question in in the next halaqa inshallah, don't forget I will a savings program in which five people pull together a sum of money every month each month one person gets the full collection to spend is this Helen, basically it's Helen but there are some conditions we'll talk about ticks inshallah, later on