Channel: Fatima Barkatulla
Bismillah Alhamdulillah wa Salatu was Salam ala rasulillah dear brothers and sisters As salam aleikum wa rahmatullah wa barakato. And welcome to the Iran feed podcast. Today I have a guest who I'm really looking forward to speaking to, especially with some of the events that have just recently been happening, you know, in Gaza, in Palestine. I know that all of our hearts are with our brothers and sisters in Palestine. I have
hamdulillah sister Lauren booth. salaam aleikum, sister Lauren, while I come Salaam Rahmatullah rahmatullahi wa barakatuh. It's great to see you again, Sis, how you doing? How's Finchley?
I'm doing? I'm in sort of Northwest London, not financially, but
I've got relatives there. So yeah, it seems to be fine.
But Subhan Allah, like, Lauren, I know that we haven't really caught up much ourselves with, you know, like, personally about some of the things that have been going on in Gaza, in Palestine in occupying the occupied territories.
But how have the last half of your reflections been in the last few weeks? You know, how it started, it started with, because I've got, obviously I've got friends in Gaza and friends in Jerusalem. And so it's the day before Ramadan, I said to my husband, you know, there's going to be bombings, we've just got to be prepared for it and kind of give support as we can. And know the whole really, yeah, we knew that. This is not a new thing. Because it because every Ramadan, you speak to people in Gaza, they're like, it's, it's as if, as if the Zionist army wants to take away the joy and sweetness of Ramadan from the people. And
now, of course, before that, we also had all of the amazing, you know, then we had the build up the Fridays, the Juma prayers, the attempted, you know, expulsions of families in shake Jura. So things were already bubbling. So as somebody who follows this closely, you go, Yeah, well, you know, the people it guards is gonna get it.
And then last time, yeah, sorry, no, carry on, you're saying and then most was just because I was just gonna say so. So then you know, there's going to be a buildup and you know, that that the eat is going to be either destroyed or clearing up because that's how it's been for years. It This isn't a new thing. So I guess I just wanted everybody to kind of follow us to kind of acknowledge the lack of newness here that Palestinians, although we might be seeing in a different light, which is really deeply exciting. I think, for everybody involved, and the people are gathering together. It's really exciting. It's being seen through a new lens and a new framing. It's not me.
People might misunderstand what you mean by exciting, like, I would say, my my emotions over the last few weeks have been anything but exciting. I've been crying on the sofa, you know, I've had, I've had my moments were so panela the images, just the images that you know, our poor brother and sisters, I should say are strong brothers and sisters. But also the the children, you know, images of children being pulled out Rubble, I think there was one very powerful image of a little girl with a doll with just Rubble, you know, her Dolf gift from Eve, with just rubble all around her, like my little daughter, who's 10 years old.
happened to come see that picture.
And she said she couldn't sleep. You know?
You know what I think the thing is, I think, I think most of us are cried every single day, every day. And then there's this built up of absolute fury. I did find myself in kind of
athletes in the last few days since Ramadan of thinking, what can I throw off my balcony I want to do like, you know, a Rolling Stones, I want to get a TV or something really heavy, and just lob it into the street because and then I thought I was gonna be let go and pray to rock out what is going on. Because, you know, it drives you to this to this, you know, this is where where what Islam trains us as Muslims to be to be reflective, not reflects it, and to really think about how are we going to be effective here? Because Because that that, that nastiness is what the enemy does, and it is not us and I never I don't think for any of us. Have we had to dig so deep into our Deen in order
just to get through. You know, what's been what's been going on? Because it's extremely painful.
The I think the pain is exacerbated by the feeling of helplessness but I guess what
Can you tell us why you're talking about excitement? Because I think I know, but just to kind of Yeah, I was a bit different, wasn't it? Yeah. You know what I feel? I think there's a lot of activists who kind of feel like, we got this album 20 years before, you know, and now you're all saying it's your favorite album? You know, there's a little bit of that going on about about, you know, we've been calling it apartheid. For years, the Palestinians have been calling this out since 1972. They've been they've been saying that they've been going to the United Nations, they've been asking the media to respect them. They've been, you know, so so sorry. Can you can you just repeat
that again? Because you froze for a moment, you said Palestinians? Well, Palestinians have been calling out this apartheid. Since 1967. They've been going to the United Nations, they've been demanding their rights. They've been listing the the crimes. And you know, there have been pockets of external resistance of activists and groups. So trying to be advocates and allies, and nobody was listening. So why why did I use the word excitement in amongst death and debris? Because this is different? Can you taste it, it's like a really nice, it's like a really nice chocolate with a Tang at the end. It's like, this is great, this is good stuff. We're gonna do this, we're gonna drive
this through, because people are listening. And we can go into this a bit deeper in Charlotte in this. But yeah, it is exciting. And we do feel strong. Because there's been a sea change, right? Like, whether it's celebrities, whether it's even politician, I felt like this time round, there were many more voices that were willing to just say, you know, what, this is apartheid, that, you know, this is oppression, there's no justification for this. This is wrong. This is occupation, we're watching occupation in front of our very eyes, and we're allowing an entire country to get away with it. So by law, you know, a lot of planning is perfect. And, you know, it has some zoom lat
who's the British ambassador to Palestine, he's been smashing out the park. And he makes it very clear, he makes it very clear that, you know, Black Lives Matter has played a big part in setting the groundwork for a new understanding of what white supremacy looks and feels like. And I was speaking to her last night, and I was saying, you know, what, I think, as a as a white European, that we've become kind of used to questioning ourselves a bit now, like, hmm, that feels alert, like I was a little bit racist. There was a it was like, just a little soup sort of racism there. And we've had to start questioning ourselves. So when something else big comes, we're like, Oh, this
looks like smells like tastes like what we've been dealing with and had to ask ourselves. So it's like this big groundwork that's been going on through the suffering of black people in America, and globally, has set the groundwork for the for the white power base to then reflect on ourselves and go, Well, are you saying Jews can't be white supremacists, or they are or, but this really look kind of looks a bit like that. So I think all of this work that's been going on, for the last, you know, you know, year particularly has really made a new framework possible.
So, Pamela, before we were going to talk about the oft repeated phrases during this whenever something is up in Gaza, right? Or in Palestine, we hear these oft repeated phrases. And we're going to talk about them in a moment. But before we do, can you just share and I want to share as well, like your experience, just a glimpse of your experience, especially the last time maybe you went to Palestine?
I think what's it like for people who haven't been on time for me, it's been different. I went in 2005, as a journalist for the West Bank, when in 2006, as a journalist to the West Bank and Gaza 2008 as an activist on the free guards on a boat, 2009 hamdulillah with Viva Palestina, which was a road car you might remember 2009 I went by bicycle cycling from a man
from Amman to Jerusalem with my daughter with peace cycles to Canada, and then 2009 as an activist 2011 2012 as of delivering a 2013 delivering ate, every time, every time is felt different. And there have been elements that are the same. I think in in 2005 The first time I went CES, what really struck me as someone who's only known an exceptional amount of freedom in their lives, was checkpoints. 2000 The first time I went it was all about checkpoints. And that was because there was it was that the first national Palestinian elections for the PA and I
I was with chip Carter, Jimmy Carter's son,
on, you know, with the group and he was checking out the freedom of movement that was supposed to be allowed for the Palestinians. Because if you're in Bethlehem and you're supposed to vote in your birthplace of Nablus normally that may not be possible but they had to free up the roads you had to be able to go vote and come back. Of course that wasn't that was that was not happening as it should be happening. And I just remember the sort of the fury the the the humiliation, I mean, Nablus is a horrendous checkpoint where, you know, it's like your, your, your account cow, you're just heard it in and Erez checkpoint in 2006 was one. I tell my kids were traumatized, because you can't in
reflection to what everybody over there goes through. But I was shocked. I sat I sat
12 hours, no sweat sat for 10 hours at a checkpoint and watched a lady in a wheelchair be humiliated and refused exit to go and get to go and get her to go and get an operation in America. I watched members of the PA the newly formed Palestinian Authority sitting there you know, humiliated It was like, What's going on here? And then when you when you say anything, collective punishments, a man with a with a walkie talkies? Yeah, they're not going to go. Yeah. Okay, so we'll shut the whole checkpoint for four days, hang on a minute, there's somebody else who needs so in other words, if you don't shut up, right, when there's an injustice, we're gonna punish everybody else for you not
shutting up, because we caused an injustice. So you so I really got a sense of, you know, collective punishment, which is illegal under international law. But and that's just
what is known as Israeli exceptionalism. Why are a couple everywhere else, but not in Israel? And this is what really, I think, has people continually scratching their heads and thinking it can't be that bad, because otherwise it will be criminal. You know, it's, it's true. To believe you've got two bad guys, you Muslims, you activists, you've got to be missing a very intelligent piece of information here. Because
that's why we keep saying, well, it's complicated. I need to look into it, you know,
because they literally think It can't be that bad. Like.
And it's quite a quite literally is that simple. It literally it's, it's apartheid, as you'd recognize it with with with checkpoints, and different allowances, whether it's building a house, whether it is access to healthcare and medical care,
and civic facilities within Israel, Palestine, 1948, whether it is literally your right to travel and move about as outlined in international law, and, of course, the the determination that the occupier must pay for the occupation. And Israel's never, never had to do that the EU, the EU, or charities, international corporate, international organizations pick up the bill. So it's it's the cheapest, longest occupation in modern history.
It's Pamela solara. And I just want to share with you, you know, there's a there's this near shift era, there's a neighborhood called, so we're okay. And when I was 16 years old, I was in Egypt. And I had this map of the Middle East on my wall. And one day, I woke up just staring at the map, and I realized how close Jerusalem was to Egypt, right. And I said to my friends, like, Oh, my God, I could go and pray in much the Luxor. And they were laughing. They were like, you know, yeah, you know, do you know what's going on? And, but I just got this just very strong feeling that I wanted to go. And this is in 1996 97. Right. And so myself and my sister, so two Brits, and two American
sisters, African American sisters, we got on a bus basically, and went on an eight hour trip to refer the rougher border, okay. And then into Jerusalem, from red to Jerusalem. And we arrived there in the middle of the night.
And what happened was, we were last week, you know, we were just being very carefree and slightly naive, teenagers, I guess, and wanted to we just like we want to pray much laughter Alhamdulillah it allowed us in very easily, maybe because of our passports and, you know, and maybe the climate at that time.
But when we arrived
before we went there, a lot of brothers and sisters were telling us don't go because you know, you're going to be basically helping the Israelis.
Kind of acknowledging them. There was like a fatwa at the time that, you know, nobody should even go there, right? But we did our own research. And I remember remember the Hadith of the Prophet SAW Selim, don't, don't make effort to go to any Masjid. Don't make any spirit spiritual journey, you know, except three places. Masjid al haram must his Masjid, the prophet smash, and master the Luxor. And I thought to myself, wow, the prophets of Salaam would not have said that. If masjidul oxa was not. So was not immensely significant, right.
And that's what kind of drove us to go. And when, when we arrived were lost. And
panela when we first arrived, there was some Jewish
youth were just walking on the streets. This is 3am in the morning, by the way, and one of them, he literally started yelling at us, this is in Jerusalem, outside Damascus Gate kind of area. And he's like, he started shouting at us, Arabs, Arabs, you deserve to buy. And we, we were like, this is too cliche. But that was literally our Welcome to two, you know, occupied Palestine. And then one of his friends came over to us. And he said, Excuse me, you're not Arabs, are you? You're, we were like, American and, but we're Muslim. You know, we're British and American, but we must. And he said, Look, I really want to apologize. So. So we saw that both of those sides, you know, like the kind of
more peaceful side of Israelis, and then also the very kind of aggressive side. But anyway, the, the long short of it is that in the middle of the night, a guy just comes out of the blue in a taxi. I will say,
he sees us and he says, What are girls like you doing in the middle of the night on the street, you know? And he was really worried about us. And he said, Listen,
we said, we're praying, Mashallah, he said, You're too late. It's too late at night now. But what you've got to do is find some accommodation. He said, Look, I've got a sister. We live in Jerusalem, East Jerusalem.
And she lives by herself come and stay. And we have a split second decision. We agreed.
I don't know if we're foolish. But, you know, that's one of the great things about being young, right? You just make these decisions. And it was one of the best decisions of our lives because we ended up staying with them for 10 days. Wow. And
this angelic man, you know, Subhanallah, he fed us he provided whatever we needed, got us to phone home to our dads, you know, like, he was probably thinking, our dads were worried. He had a daughter, so he invited us to his daughter's wedding. This is East Jerusalem, so beautiful, such a beautiful, such beautiful people, wonderful people. And I think it's always one of those neighborhoods, you know, like chef Jarrah, that Muslims that the Palestinians are being so called evicted, right.
And so I really, I really feel for them, because I haven't been to Gaza. But I've been to Jerusalem, and I've lived in Jerusalem, a number of days. And I just, I can't imagine what it must be like for them to literally be driven out of their homes that they've lived in for generations. And, you know, homes that are theirs, and land is this under international law. So Panama land, and what always strikes me when I go is the love for the land, the love, we love the sail. I mean, I remember when we were cycling through the West Bank in 2009. And we got to belie in a beeline is a wonderful, tiny little village, really,
by the wall, which is resisting so that they can keep their crops and their land, because it's the separation of checkpoints for farmers. So not only have you got jeeps coming in in the middle of the night and grabbing your young men from their beds and terrorizing the sisters and the children. what you've got is a deliberate effort so that the farmers cannot get to their planting areas cannot get to their animals so that things die. Oh, well the office and you know, and then have weird laws like if it's untended, then it goes to the state Sorry, it's not yours anymore. Clearly it will scrub land. It's like a you literally stopped me for six months. But so there's all that going on, but I'm
just getting there and and seeing people's love of their land, and they're getting them to the talk about the earth and the trees, the love of the olive trees, seeing seeing the people picking the olives.
Sitting there under them as they must have done for 1000s of years Billa ain actually stayed in my mind a lot.
Yeah, say to my mind a lot, actually, a younger brother member of a family there was just shot in the head. A couple of days ago in Allahu Allah Hara June and you know, what struck me where there was how resistance looked. So we were invited to do a watch on the roof at midnight for an incursion, and then you get on your walkie talkie or a phone and you call the other people in one the families so that they could at least be dressed, can't do anything else that you know, and that there was a husband there who just because he went on Friday protests hadn't slept in his house for seven years, so that his family wouldn't have the pain of, of being disturbed in the night because
the army knew wasn't in the house. And there's so much destruction of the natural order of things. And so much love, and so much love and so much welcome.
Yeah, let's kind of Dalit says in the Quran that he blessed that land, and the land all around it as well. So Anima and we know that our Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam he traveled there in person, we don't believe it was a dream, you know, the Assign mirage. It wasn't just a dream, it was, he was one of the miracles was that he was physically taken there.
And it was our first fibula, right? I mean, I just want to highlight all of those things are
so panela, you know, even Orban, ohata when he came to Jerusalem, when Muslims conquered Jerusalem, and, you know, the, when the keys were handed over to him, he was very peaceful. You know, he, he wanted each of the religions to be able to practice freely. They're to the point that he was invited to pray in the Church of the Holy Sepulchre. He said, No, I won't, because if I pray here, the Muslims later they'll destroy this church and build a mosque on it, you know, because they'll say, okay, prayed here. So he actually went a little bit further away from the church and prayed. And actually there is actually a mosque there now, which is the mosque of Omar.
But that whole area where Mashallah Luxor is and what it looks like, is obviously not just the Dome of the Rock and the the machete bleah. Think scald. It's that whole kind of space. It was a rubbish dump. When Omar bin Al Khattab came there was not being kept, wasn't being looked after. And it was Omar who bought it cleared up. Because they knew that this is this is the land of martial arts. All right.
So when I first found what was happening, I was I was a Christian, non Muslim, who was passionate about human rights. And I was amazed, for example, to find out when I went to the Holy Sepulchre, to pray as a Christian, that Muslims and Muslim families still holds the key, because they are hugely respected as the protectors of them that most holy Christian sites alike, but that really blew my mind and made me think I don't really know a lot about this holy land stuff. And our connection is why when you see 100,000 people turning up at fudgier, praying Ramadan, and even the day after, I mean, I was in, I'm sure we've all been amazed by the actually, the meaning of steadfastness. You
know, you read the word steadfastness. So many times in the Quran, the one who's steadfast, and we always apply it to our brother, you know, sometimes serious, but mostly, while the poultry problems aren't going to be steadfast with this problem from that. The meaning of steadfastness in this day and age, I'm telling you is is in a lexer in the area around it. So the handler, the day after, there have been stun grenades, and rubber coated bullets shot into crowds. 100,000 people still turn up to pray, would you I apply this to us I'm thinking about there was a problem with a Manchester mosque where the Imam was falsely accused of something. And everybody went, Oh, I'm not going to
police might be watching on little bit worried. And a few of us kept going, like, Where is the steadfastness guys? This is your mosque. Like, sir, is different. People who have been chosen to live around most of their lecture and be their protectors are different. That's the meaning of steadfastness a lot.
Yeah, and I want to say to brothers and sisters out there that when you do get a chance, do go and visit much to the Luxor you know, make it because I remember when we when we were going and people were telling us not to when we actually got there. The Palestinians said to us, no, you've got to keep coming. Because when you come here, Israelis know that you can't. The Israelis realize that actually, this is a massive oma out there that actually cares about this Masjid, right. So yeah, I think a lot of
Muslims have been avoiding going there I think like even as a place to pray and as a place to visit, but I think all of us need to make it you know, one of those things that we, we aim to do. So what you're
watching imagine being shahida most of Alexa was cool, amazing. Having
like my daughter when she saw me crying. One evening, when I was just, you know, it's just too much looking at all the images and the news.
touchingly, she came over to me and she said, Omar, you didn't know that there. Shaheed, you didn't know that they're martyrs, and they've gone straight to Jana. And they actually happy right now.
Then she said, and Allah will deal with the people who helped them on the Day of Judgment. So Pamela, and I just thought, you know, of course, we know that, but you took my daughter to kind of just bring it back to the reality of it, you know, Pamela, and, and that's how we've got to look at these things, I guess, sister, Lauren, I'm gonna mention the I'm just going to mention a few of the oft repeated statements. And I think these are going to be timeless, because probably, if this is ever in the news, again, they're probably going to be repeated again. Right. So I think it's good for for brothers and sisters to hear.
You know, what are these statements that we keep hearing? It's almost like the script, isn't it? It's like,
Well, yeah, there's two things here. One is one is the Israeli embassy does have it obviously has its own script. And it has a right to that script. And it propagates it absolutely brilliantly. So far, not so much. These days, I'm afraid Woohoo.
But the other thing to remember is that we're in in TV studios, that the job of the journalist is to put the other side's view to the guest. So when we you know, I believe me, I spend most of my time shouting at the teddy bear House of journalists hits you pads or what have you. But we acknowledge that there is a framework that they have to to work.
You watch a Krishna Krishna guru Murphy
channel for asking her some somewhat ridiculous questions. He has to do that. But here's the thing is listening to the answer takes respect. And what we haven't heard before now is, is a kind of like, oh, we're going to actually sit and respect the Palestinian side as having a real veracity. And then, of course, there's there was many times when the Israeli guests was given a very light run. Oh, we're just doing this defense. Oh, nevermind, my three children dead today. Let's move on. You know that that's when the breaks down?
Why do you think it is that this time around? I don't know why it just felt like, either the Palestinian spokespeople were a lot more eloquent? I don't know. Was it that they will? Was it? What's his name? Brother was?
Yeah, so there's a couple of things going on here. Like me better now? I don't know.
But it just felt like more of the arguments were being heard?
Or was it the activism? That put it into into the news, you've listed a couple of really, you know, some of the points there, that number one, we talked about Black Lives Matter. And the fact that that non Muslims are reflecting on themselves and saying, oh, a little bit, a little, a little bit kind of white supremacist feeling going on here. But I've, I've learned to be uncomfortable with a little bit of training people to be a bit more conscious about what they're hearing, and watch out for, hang on a child with a stone gets mowed down by a tank, is that fair? Rather than white people?
So that's been part of, I think, I think better Representatives has have definitely been part of it. And I think the absolute unavoidable nastiness of, you know, just charging in, in the holiest month of the year, and thinking and throwing stun grenades into a crowd of people and lots of images of people praying and being kicked while they're praying. And of course, citizen journalism, citizen journalists,
social media, the mighty smartphone, sort of being there, and I think it being a lot more organized. So let's say one of these oft repeated media phrase phrases you're gonna hear is Israel has a right to defend itself and one of my kind of shouting, shall I rip the TV off the off the wall and throw it over the balcony moments in the last month was when a Biden spokesperson
weasleys type person in the White House will said so.
You know, you say that Israel has you know that what do you have to say about children dying in Gaza? And he said, Israel has the right to defend itself. That was
just went okay.
So we're talking about you do know what's on like guards and children now. Do you accept
But killing children is bad. And he went
to couldn't find he couldn't bring himself to
himself to say it, that non Jewish lives in that area. children's lives have the same weight. And this is Israeli exceptionalism. So so so keep pushing the question are the Palestinians not entitled to self defense and remember that under international law, and occupied people have a right to self defense. So the fact that Gaza remains under Israeli blockade and military control, it can't be overlooked. And here's the fight 75% of Israeli citizens believed today that the bombing of Gaza and the deaths of children are the right thing to do. So when we speak to that 75%, you're racist, you're fascist, you're murder, you're you're approving the murder of children, and you need to you
need to look at yourself. I was the lamina shaitana regime. And I think this this, it now is not the time for you and me to self reflect Now is the time to really drive through that that this has to stop because the Israelis are not gonna stop this, in the same way that without external pressure, South Africa would still have been an apartheid state working closely with Israel, by the way, who offered them at one point a nuclear bomb. So go figure, right on May the 17th, Amnesty International condemned Israel's continuing assault on Gaza, what did they call it? They said that Israel displays a shocking disregard for the life of Palestinian civilians by carrying out airstrikes doing what
targeting buildings, and in some cases, killing entire families. We are not going to what other here we are very clearly, and only at this time talking about Palestinian lives. You know what, that's okay.
She's sister Lauren, another one of the oft repeated statements is that Hamas, us or the Palestinians use children as human shields.
Yeah. And I think we can kind of extend that into Hamas is the problem. And it's really, really important to know that Hamas didn't, wasn't voted into power until 2006. Seven, okay. Israel had a compliant Palestinian authority that it was dealing with, and it still killed kids. And it's still arrested. At some point more, I think it's something like three quarters of the male population of Palestine have been inside in Israeli prison at some time, throwing a stone being in the wrong place at the wrong time not having a permit, whatever, they just chuck them in jail just to show them just for a bit and then they then they are tortured, and then they are maltreated. So remember, when you
hear Hamas is the problem. This has been going on since 1948. And Hamas was created, I think, in the 1980s. So again, because you can wipe all of that away,
And also, I think it's that's just so dehumanizing. Do you know what I mean? Like,
the idea that people use their children? And I think that's part of the whole narrative, isn't it of
talking about Palestinians, as if they're not normal human beings? You know, like, they're, they're so bloodthirsty and anti
anti Israel, anti Jewish people? I mean, this is the narrative, right? That they are willing to sacrifice their own kids in order to, you know, to, to drive, what did they say drive them into the sea? Right. That's another one, by the way.
That says, We've got to remember that there is something else as well, that I think how much has something like five to 10,000 active members, and there are 2 million people in Gaza, the majority of whom I think it's something like 60%, or under 14 years old, they've never voted for anybody.
Now that now, you know, and I've been saying, for I've been saying since
2009, that Gaza is actually a concentration camp, okay? Because the definition of a concentration camp is a people who are rounded up and kept in difficult circumstances, without any access to freedom of movement over liberties, you know, under enshrined in international law for creed, political views,
or race color or face.
Another oft repeated statement
that condemn the rockets. Do you condemn the Rockets? That's another way to get to hearing Right. Yeah. And then the rockets. Do you conduct that? So focusing on the reaction?
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Not mentioning the provocation.
Somebody said one of the interviews I watched someone said,
it, let's just do the numbers who's actually dying here, and then look at who's sending the rockets.
You know, Israel prides itself on being the fourth most armed military in the world with nuclear capability. And, you know, the smart weapons, that they can see an ant moving across the ground. And yet continually, they can take out 310 15 I think a couple of days or 22 members of the same family, none of whom were in any way active or, you know, and then again, you know, ideally want want to take that, you know, that line of work. They weren't Hamas, you know, targeting the homes of Hamas officially works in the education ministry means that you are saying it's okay to kill the wife and six children of someone who works at a ministry.
Pay. Dear God, I've met these families, I get No. Well, how dare we dehumanize them? For the man they fell in love with? who worked, by the way, as a paper pusher in a ministry, which has now been blown up? No, no, we have to go back to the beginning. And really be very clear. Another oft repeated,
you know, some of the chant.
You know, some of the chants that, that Palestinian activists say, during,
like, protests and stuff, from the river to the sea, right, Palestine shall be free. I heard that one being, you know, completely kind of demonized in the news. And people say, Oh, that's basically driving Jews into the seat. Right. Um,
but the point is, I think the point to highlight there is, I guess, that Subhanallah, you know,
Palestine was a country that existed. And I think this sometimes is not being mentioned that Britain, right, especially Britain, as the
literally took Palestine and gave it to a third party. Right. And so he is in just isn't unjust.
It was an unjust deal. They actually promised it to three different people, I believe. And then, in the end, they
gave it to the Zionists.
But this idea that Palestinians should not want their right of return, they should not want their land back the houses. I mean, the so called evictions, they're not recent right. Palestinians were thrown out of their homes. They're the lands taken over by force all those years ago, right. This is just a extension and a continuous continuous kind of
encroachment, right. It's not, it's not a new thing at all. So it's important to highlight that they have a right to want their land back.
I love to add, that's a great summary. Yes, I think I think I think it's really important to, to look at some some good news here. And I think,
you know, that's a tough thing to say, but but the Palestinians themselves, demand that we stay positive. You know, I remember, you know, we're going to refugee counts as an untrained, you know, correspondent who had no idea what she was doing, and thinking, I'm wanting to cry from the first second, because there's children living on the rubble of their home in tents. And if you've never seen that, it's really shocking. And I had to, like, take my my my nails and dig them into my hand, and make myself smile because they don't need our tears. They need Yes, are the ours but they need our strength. And they need us to be to be active and not to give in to hopelessness, which is from
shaytan as well. So Pamela, and there have been, you know, bright spots. I mean, Kuwait did the world miss this or what? Kuwait has proposed 10 years in prison for anyone caught supporting Israel? Oh, my God. I mean, the news.
Amazing. So Pamela, I had to check it two or three times going. In fact, I've got it open here because I have to read it again. Kuwaiti government announces 10 years jail fine for those who support Israel. The Kuwaiti government has announced 10 years imprisonment and a fine of 5000 a year on for those who support Israel in real life on social media, Allahu Akbar. Why this is shocking to us, is because
Kuwait has said
We are part of the oma. So every country has its own treason laws. Right? So in America, they had the Patriot Act, right. So So this all encompassing anti terror law if you if you tweet anything or you make a statement that is in any way
seems to to wish violence on America, you're going down for a long time. But this is different. Because it's not about the first week about out about against Kuwait, you're going down to speak pro Israel, because we are one oma, you hated us. And I've never seen that before allow Ecuador congratulate. There has been. Yeah. So I think there has been an awakening for you, even though I see when they had their meeting. I mean, it was a bit sad that that's all they did really have a meeting, right. But just that kind of awakening, especially I think much of Luxor has that effect, doesn't it like Subhan, Allah, Muslims, I do feel that there is this kind of feeling amongst the oma
that we cannot allow this to happen. And I think it was the Turkish minister who was suggesting that there should be a force that is sent over to Palestine to Gaza to militarily protect the Palestinians, you know, made up of people of military from different Muslim countries. Let's see what happens. Amazing. I mean,
fanatical Protection Force that would be great. United Nations was never a thing called that. We do it's kind of hand that we don't want them actually we don't even want the United Nations.
And sister and you sent me some videos of Palestinians celebrating in the last year
after the ceasefire.
Can you like Tell me why would there be victory celebrations? You said that they were in Jerusalem, Ramallah and Gaza, and other places too, but specifically Jerusalem, Ramallah and Gaza last night? Oh, my, my WhatsApp was full of friends holding their phone and fireworks going off and chance free Palestine victory. It was like IID. In fact, it was totally a delayed IED. All across the Gaza Strip. I was crying, you know, from 11pm to 2am. People just overjoyed shouting victory victory. Now for us outside we might be thinking what victory you just got in life, loss of life, whole districts gone. All of your infrastructure back to the Middle Ages yet again. And a lot of a lot of trauma to
to repair. This is a sad time. It's just because, you know, from outside, we're saying, Look, it's a ceasefire. We you and me and everybody watching this, we need to keep going. But for the people there they see it differently. Because they haven't gone and nobody came in, you know, all they they are still standing you mean that's still standing, and they're still praying, and they're still able to laugh and celebrate and feel this huge, overwhelming love for the land and determination. That is the victory Allahu Akbar, Allahu Akbar. You know, this is this is the 16 of Allah to Allah gives. And we have to, we should understand that their victory is staying put that their victory is you
know, gathering and saying, you know, you you drones, you didn't beat us. You haven't broken the back of the joy that we're going to have. And determination stay in our land and today, oh my gosh, again from 11pm last night until dawn, you know, the wonderful scenes of people flocking to the laksa Masjid, doing their route or doing their subdued their
sugar, sorry, their sujood sugar soda to show
and then, you know, my friend sending me yes or in Gaza sending me a wonderful long WhatsApp voice note of he said this is my two rackets. shocker to Allah to Allah. And then Jimmy Jamal, my friend, you know, just the streets being fooled and then laughing at the soldiers laughing because just a day before they've been being beaten and or you know, grudge and now they're going yeah, we're still here. You didn't move any of us, not one of us. So their victory is, you know, to to to exist is to resist and the knowledge that they're standing together and giving each other strength and then they didn't,
didn't turn their back onto the battlefield, right. It didn't turn their backs. They are the defenders of muscle access panel like that. You know, some of them bless it.
I feel like also we've been hearing more voices from Palestine, like I can actually name people, you know what I mean? Like in the past, that wasn't always the case like young people, especially using social media being very vocal being very eloquent speaking in English, etc.
So, is that what your friends in Palestine were telling you is the reason why they were celebrating?
The reason they're celebrating is, is because they feel that the pressure from around the world and internally has forced Israel's hand to stop the bombing. Now that they feel supported, they feel supported by us out here. Yeah. And they know that their voices that their arguments are winning. I mean, you know, what does Israel walk away and walk away with the shame of being you know, we we've had people around the world, millions and millions of people turning out for Palestine hole hole city centers brought to a standstill with joyful resistant cheering, and were received wherever the pro Israel March has been. And you know why that is because Human Rights Watch report. And the best,
Selim Israeli human rights advocates, organization saying it is actually apartheid? Sorry, guys. Yeah, it kind of is. It kind of is it really literally, is bog standard apartheid. And so they really haven't got anything to come back with. And that's a big change by the grace of Allah.
I'm sister Lauren, how do you see things progressing, changing? You know, going forward, because it feels like these things are cyclical. And
I mean, we have these intense days of feeling so involved with this cause. And then it's out of the news. It's out of our minds, often right? Until it fires up again.
Two questions, one, how do you see this panning out now? Like, if there has really been this sea change? How is that sea change now going to impact the Palestinian resistance? And second, what should we hear outside of Palestine? You know, all over the world, especially in the West? What do you think we should be doing? constantly, rather than only during times of you know, when it's in the news?
Okay, a couple of things. First and foremost, we were not all made to be activists all the time, we'd all have a breakdown, the people of Palestine have been chosen for this fight. They've got this. So there will be a core outside in every country in every nation on Earth, who will be supporting them consistently in Sharla? And what what those people ask is, that everybody else support us. Don't run away. When somebody is accused of being an anti Semite, say, Hell, no. Anti Zionist, hell no, anti Israeli apartheid. And we've got to have each other's backs, don't scatter, know, don't be afraid anymore. The old arguments have fallen away, the truth is made apparent, and
falsehood has been made apparent. And so we are one oma. And we are a people who must call to good and forbid evil. That's all you're expected to do, you know, to say to people, we got your back and to say to the Palestinians, when you need us, you've got your 2 billion people here, you know, we've got you. And, you know, if you're going back to normal, let that moment will be not buying D or not buying Puma, pick three things off the BDS list. And I would say this is just me. If you're thinking of going to Dubai, as long as they normalize with Israel, think again, Dubai is now running a sex trafficking holiday destination for Israelis to really want to be putting your money into that right
now. And I know there's people in the UAE are pious, may Allah bless you. And may Allah give you a voice, but to the regime that scrapped Dubai for now, let them feel it and, and discourage all of the other nations, the Arab nations who might be shamefully thinking about selling settlement products and encouraging Israeli normalization off the table, and Sharla but you don't have to do it all the time. You know, go back to your lives. It's okay. You know, this isn't this isn't everybody struggle all the time, but you've got to have each other's backs. And we've got to be consistent and we've got to boycott divestment sanctions.
Right. And I would say, keep our Palestinian brothers and sisters in the middle as keep martial law set in your doors, you know, and I think all of us our life, I guess, our life's work, whatever it is that we do and whatever our talents are, has got to be to making you know world a better place to to reviving our
Do you know
to righting wrongs and so, all the work that we do aims towards that and Sharla will also contribute towards this.
So just like a Heron, sister Lauren, is there anything else you want to add? Is there anything else you want to any message? Yeah, give your brothers and sisters, this mentor of mine or hain, educate your children, show them maps with Palestine on it. Talk to them about how the Prophet peace be upon him visited Al Aqsa, they're a wonderful wonderful booklets out there available that are worksheets to do with Alexa to do with Palestine you talk about it around the family table you know share the cuisine night speak to is fine find Palestinian groups and and twin your school with a school in Nablus or a Bethlehem or or you know Ramallah there are things that you can do as a parent at the
school at the at the school where you're at in Sharla and and speak to teachers as well and say is there room in the curriculum for ischemic discussion about this? We can do with a smile. It's perfectly legitimate to speak about the world if we're speaking about the world can we do it this way? You know, be engaged we're engaged people inshallah, to Allah. And yet hamdulillah just mail up Mila Mila bless our brothers and sisters and thank you, thank you so much to Allah to Allah for, for allowing us to have this great, great group of people who teach us our Deen and teach us the real meaning of patience and steadfastness and a man.
Yeah, is when when we react and we responded, we cry and make
it proves that we're still alive, our hearts are still alive, right? As a nama. And I think that's really powerful, what you said about our children, because I think one of the reasons why normalization probably occurs is because a new generation have completely lost the link, right? they've forgotten they've forgotten the significance. And they've forgotten the history, right? Or the turning a blind eye to the history. So I think is really important. Not only to talk to our children about it, teach them the history, tell them the stories, take them there, if you can, you know,
let them feel that connection. For a lot of kids, this would have been the first time they ever heard of Palestine or they heard about All right, you know, I want to add here is I really hate it. When I hear young people say, I really want to go to Gaza with this charity and do some work there. I want to go to Al Aqsa and teach kids, but my parents won't let me go and then Muslim parents, you know, as a, you know, brothers and sisters, we love our children, we have the duty of care, but when they're 18 and they're wanting to do good for the oma is it? Is it our place to really stand in ways that
we should be proud? I mean, I felt proud with my son's just going to the protests, you know, because I was like Subhanallah like, this is why we have kids, you know, we want them to have a positive impact on the world. You want them to be awake, want them to be contributing to positive change and when our kids do good deeds and when they do good things, we as parents are rewarded for that right
you know, there's a beautiful for our, for our children, and I've been I happen I mean as Virgina would react in our kurata you watch Anna Lou mattina Imam, that Oh Allah bestow upon us are going to have that I mean, as word you know, from our spouses and our children, the coolness of our eyes, make them the coolness of our eyes, and make us leaders of the God conscious, because leaders of the unconscious and in the in the explanation why it says in the explanation of that door, it says what it means by the coolness of your eyes is that make our children active, make them pious, make them servants of Allah in such a way that when we see them when we see them worshiping Allah when we see
them doing good when we see them on those protests when we see them standing up for the truth, it gives us this immense happiness right our hearts so just like in the Heron, sister Lauren, we make the offer our brothers and sisters in Gaza and in Palestine. We make brother yeah Allah.
Give them patience, give them steadfastness and your Allah forgive us for our shortcomings, you know, as an oma and help us to revive ourselves and our leadership and help us to do right by them.
By the way, sister Lauren, what you know when you see the decimation in Gaza
what happens after that, like
I saw that the Israelis were advertising that they sent all this aid.
I thought oh my god so this thing was saying a lot
that this that they were showing like these trucks full of aid and medical Hayden is like, adding insult to injury, right. But
they were kind of saying well look, look at how humanitarian we are bringing all these supplies to get the Gaza Strip. And but I was thinking what happens to the buildings were like,
how do they rebuild their lives after these terrible, various rooms, really, really slowly, really slowly, you know, cutter plays, pays for a lot of it modulates about a pillar, but it tend to it takes years to come in. And the you know, the, the un un un has been critical, since after Cast Lead and the other one in 2014, the absolute detonation, which was like three Hiroshima bombs,
equivalent on the Gaza Strip, 1000s and 1000s of times tons and whole districts gone. I mean, it's like, you know, going to North London and North London's gone, and then you only allow a certain type of stone in every second Wednesday, was gonna take a while, you know, so the summary goes on. I even think there are still people
who haven't been rehoused from 2014
Yeah, so so it's not a generous Act, the the general, just open the borders,
the borders, and if it's about security, by the way that you should seal the borders. Why? Why can't the Palestinians, you know, sell their strawberries and their tulips is a tulip, a deadly weapon. It's not it's an economic blockade to destroy the will of our people to stay where they are, and to have their own system and to demand their rights. So yeah, that's, that's, that's the reality of the blockade.
And it feels like it's there just to squeeze and squeeze and squeeze just
cause the Palestinians just give up. And, you know, the really sad thing, that there is a spike in suicides that I one of the saddest stories in all this
horror, horror movie this month, has been of a young man. And I think his name was, at nine years old, he saw his brother killed by a missile as they were playing together. And then I think at 10, he saw his sister killed by a missile, and at 13, his father was killed. And last week his mother was killed in an Israeli missile, and he killed himself.
He committed suicide.
Last time with the honor forgive him, and
I can't imagine, you know,
the effect that such
devastation can have. What do you think I do think we have we have a right as well to demand of international Jewish communities. Where's your voice against the murder of children? Do you know you do you condemn Israel for the death of this family? And I think, I think that strong voice needs to come forward as well. And it feels like it's grown to
this time round, if it felt this time round like it had started to. Yeah, no more prominent. Jewish people were
more vocal, it felt like I don't know.
Now, you're right.
It's still a very small amount.
But you know, what, the people who are almost victimized the most are anti Zionist Jews. They really are very brief. Oh, yeah. We commend you know, them when they when they break cover and say you're not my national state.
Netanyahu is not my leader.
I live in I live in America, I live in Canada, and this is my home. And I definitely don't support the bloodthirsty
work that you're doing. And there's some wonderful lectures out there. And I really do recommend that people look up anti Zionist, Jews. Just put it into Google and look at some of the, you know, go for some of the scholars and go for some of the longer talks by rabbis. Have your eyes open? So you're looking behind it as well? Right. Sheesh, we can hit my house. I lost the last week and it was like I thought I had a kind of handle on this stuff. And I knew nothing. And the GPU get incredible, you know?
Yeah, the pilot and I think it's worth also mentioning that, you know, the idea of a promised land and the idea of
The land of Moses and Jesus and well, they wouldn't say Jesus But Moses and David and
you know, I saw God do you know? How did you? Lee Weissman? He's online? Okay. He's
got a look on Twitter. Yeah. Did you
He was getting a lot of flack from people, you know, from Jewish people from Zionist.
And he said, Brother, he said to I saw his responses, you know, and he was saying, the promise from God is not unconditional. Right. That's one of the key things he kept saying, you know, and I was thinking to myself, so panela that's exactly what the Quran says. Right? But Allah, Allah did promise. And we believe that the bunny bunnies while we're the original believers, right, the Muslims, they were the who were Muslims. And
and it's worth mentioning that
Muslims We are the natural is of the prophets, we got the natural heirs of Moses. When, when the Jewish people rejected Prophet Jesus and a Salaam, that was the end. That was the end of the covenant with God. Right? And Allah Subhana Allah
put prophet hood in the lineage of the children of Israel after that, right and that's why the Prophet Muhammad sallallahu alayhi wa sallam came,
we are the natural heirs of Soloman, alayhis salam, right.
And all of the prophets and
we believe in the Prophet Jesus and a Salaam we believe in the Prophet Muhammad Allah, we believe in all of the profits without distinction, right? So
this idea that the land was promised, promised to the believers, it was promised to them to follow the Prophet God and don't reject any of the puppets.
this true? Yes.
That is the absolute definition. It's it's no more complicated than that. And actually, what, it's incredible when you speak to the, the real Torah, Jews or the terracotta
brothers, that they are, they're very clear that like, this is not our time. And it can't be because
we've been driven out because of our disobedience to God, and you're like, you hear so much of the Quran in this speak. It's like, Whoa, Koran also says that they know their book, you know, the people who know their book, you know, though, and also speaks about the Jews who are blessed by God to this day, who are praying in the night and, and doing the right thing. So that so they exist amongst us, you know, Subhanallah and that's, that's kind of cool. I like that. I like that. Yeah, you're still here. You're still doing it. You know, and it's hard because it's hard holding on to a creed for 6000 years or 3000 years. You know, it 1400 years. thanks be to Allah. We've been blessed
with the court and with with no with no, with no alterations, but we as people have altered and we have sectionalized and it's difficult for us even with the court and but if you've been going 3000 years, Reena hats off to you, hats off to you guys, thank you so much for sharing your thoughts with us. Do you have any
and the message that you'd like to leave with?
Free Palestine free Palestine Layla hit Illa we're going to do this because Allah has written it so and he's made our people strong. May Allah bless you, or shahida in heaven, and our people are doing well. Don't worry, stay strong. Stay blessed. And I'm Malika Rahmatullahi briquetting does Kyla Ferran sister and Salaam Alaikum
so dear brothers and sisters
so Pamela make bra for our brothers and sisters in Palestine. They are the protect the protectors of national oxer Allah Subhana Allah has blessed them with that. And I want to say to you my brothers and sisters in Palestine we are with you, we are with you. We are parts of the resistance. May Allah Subhana Allah bless you. May Allah bless you. And May He grant you patients may grant you steadfastness You are our role models. Dear brothers and sisters please share this episode with others Alhamdulillah we reached a milestone 100,000 podcast downloads, I believe so.
And that's with your help right? So please spread the word spread these positive messages, these inspiring messages that we try to share with you.
And with that, I will bid you farewell again. desikan Allah Hi, Ron. So panicle omo behind the eyeshadow Allah Illa lanta as the Furukawa to be like
What's Salam aleikum wa rahmatullah wa barakato.