EP 066 – IlmFeed Podcast with Umm Talha – Lockdown Marriage & Divorce, Tips On Raising A Hafidh
Channel: Fatima Barkatulla
File Size: 72.81MB
They're all they've been landing in a straightener regime. This smilla wa Salatu was Salam ala rasulillah. So a lot while he was selling, dear brothers and sisters Assalamu alaykum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh. And welcome to this L feed podcast episode. Today I have with me a guest, who we've had before and handled lunch she's kindly agreed to come on again, albeit virtually, because of lockdown, etc. And I have with me today on I'll have on that hub, as you may remember,
is the head of an organization called marital arts. And, you know, they they run events and classes to help people improve their marriages and to support them. And to support marriages in general. Don't have a salon with aliko when it comes to now on labor, cattle,
how are you? I'm well, Alhamdulillah. How are you? I'm hamdulillah. I'm fine. I'm on tell her tell us. We've just been in lockdown. And, you know, obviously things are starting to open up and you know, things are going back to normal. But we're both in London
during lockdown? I don't know about you, but I was getting contacted by a few people. And it seemed that the whole kind of COVID situation. Unfortunately, it seemed to have caused
families to really struggle at times. I wonder what your thoughts have been, during this time, you know, what your observations have been with people? You know, during this lockdown period, what kind of issues have been raised? I'd love to hear from you.
Now 100 allows the NASA phenomenon a while earlier, to heal Manuela. Well, first of all, thank you for inviting me to the show again. And it's always a pleasure to have discussion with you. And talk about issues related to marriage, family life parenting, because I think these are the issues that are being faced by many Muslims daily, on a daily basis, it's really good to discuss these issues and look for some solutions that we can try to take on board so that we can improve our family life, improve our relationship. So in the community, I saw actually two types of trends. So one type were a lot of family work, happy the fact that they had, and together, they were able to spend, you know,
quality moments together, be in each other's company, and they did not feel at
was a lot of restraint with regards to the time. So
Joy joyed, the relaxed timetable, and had the opportunity to bond so well. They were quite grateful to have, you know, the blessing in disguise. time with the family doing look fun, but the relationship was thriving Alhamdulillah. But on the other side, I saw, I heard of stories where absolute attention for lockdown. And during the look on what happened, these issues that were niggling beneath the surface, they basically came to the surface and really all came out. And people were having a lot of disagreements, irritation, and arguments because in lockdown, it was no escape, you have to just deal with your problem. So if you look at the bigger picture, is almost like, you
know, I'm facing up to people's problems that were there. But maybe in the past, people weren't addressing these problems. So lockdown made people face up to their problems and deal with it, and decide what one to do, or to carry on and move forward. And of course, we've had the stories, you know, really sad stories where people are suffering from domestic abuse and violence and so on and so forth. But, you know, in any case,
made people think about relationships on a serious level, and in a way for them to really think what is it that they want out of the relationship? And I guess the pressure of being together do not meet people
take their relationship seriously, and pose the question they want to carry on. And if they do, then they need to look for ways to improve the relationship. So there's more harmony
In the family home? No, did you notice any kind of translate? That's yourself Fatima?
Um, so Pamela? Well, um,
I guess I'll talk from experience, because I think sometimes, you know, people look at people like us, and, you know, they hear from us, and they think maybe, you know,
we don't struggle, right. So,
sometimes I like to share, like, you know, my own struggles or experiences, because it reminds all of us, I guess, that we are in this together, you know, we all go us, at different times of life in different stages, in different situations, we all have our struggles, and perhaps in sharing, you know, we can help each other. So I think, yeah, I think initially, there was like, it was quite shocking, you know, to, like, like, he said, that intensity of being at home, you know,
all the schools closed, everyone just, you know, being at home, etc. And
I have no idea why, but I started becoming very, very emotional during that time. Okay. And I think I even did one or two, kind of online talks and things and, and I, you can tell that I was very, very emotional. And a few people even contacting is that you're okay, you know, and I don't know why that was, I can't put my finger on it exactly. But I would say that I think any type of change
can be quite disconcerting, you know, especially when you had certain things planned out, you know, or you got used to a certain way of being with your family, certain routine. And then, like you said, that intensity of everyone together,
not really having any kind of respite from one another. Obviously, there were positive things that came out of that, you know, there were lots of positive things as well, you know, having to kind of re I would say, reassess your routine, you could sort of get rid of some unnecessary stuff, right, from your routine, and then you could introduce some positive things, new things, I would say. So in that sense, it was great. But definitely, I think,
you know, it was a time when you really started noticing your own, I would say flaws in, you know, your own, like, character flaws, or things that trigger you in terms of,
you know, your temper, or stress, etc. And you just became, I think, a little bit more aware of that. And the types of kind of phone calls I was getting from people when were things like,
you know, one sister contacted me, and she felt that, you know, there was a lot of negativity in the house now, you know, during lockdown it, it had kind of gotten worse. And, you know, she said that her, her spouse was, he had quite a lot of anger issues. And so, you know, she felt that that was being exacerbated during this time. Or at least it was being magnified. And, you know, being in lockdown, and then all the negativity was making her feel worse. And she was just asking advice, you know, huh, what should I do in that kind of situation? And other people I noticed. For them, things got really serious, you know, like,
and I know, I read a few articles online, where, you know, people literally, inquiries about divorce basically went up
during COVID, that's generally in the general population.
And as Muslims were in the general population, as well with a lot of this society, so I'm sure that you know, people had challenges. People had points where they felt Oh my god, I can't deal with this or, you know, things like that. And I just feel like
you know, maybe we can offer some solace, some words of advice, maybe you can, you know, share with us some of your thoughts if during lockdown or even not during lockdown if after lockdown. People have started to feel that there are differences, you know,
I would say that they feel like Eric irreconcilable, right.
What would your advice be to sisters who come to you and say to you, you know, me
Ha, I think America the wrong person, you know, or something like that. What would you say?
Yeah? Well, I think one of the things that one has to remember is me changing our life is going to have an impact on a general well being, you know, not just marriage, but general will be. So we have come to terms with these, you know, changes and re adjust. And that means the relationship has to be adjusted. So, um, lockdown is not the time to be thinking, Okay, my relationship is not working, because you have to remember all the stresses, some people have lost jobs, there's an at home, there's anxiety about ill health, so many challenges that we're dealing with on top of that, if we think about our relationship, and how it's been affected, of course, is going to have an impact on
our relationship. But it doesn't mean that you know, your relationship is no good. And it's not going to last, it's important for us to think rationally and look at, okay, where is the problem? And what am I feeling negative about my relationship? Is there room for communication with my spouse is there room for reconciliation, because being locked in and Hamdulillah, one thing has come about is accessibility to services, because a lot of people were offering tools online, where there's lectures on selling services, so it was very easy to access these services. So it means that if couple were facing problems, now is the good time to access these services without feeling that you
are, you know, going out of way or feeling the shame or embarrassment of walking into a counseling session, because everything was done from home. So I would say try to understand what's going on in the relationship, try to understand what's going on with you. Because sometime, when changes happen, as we mean, you know, I know for sure I can relate to you Fatima during lockdown, I was quite
What can I say? Not emotional, but I was quite upset the fact that I couldn't see some of my loved ones I couldn't see, my friends, I couldn't meet up with you even to panela Oh, of course, a lot of our social interaction has was changed. And that's going to have an impact on our well being general well being. So you have to understand that it's something that's affecting everyone from children, to young people, to adults to older generation. So your relationship will be affected to some level not having previously because children at home, not having that time where you can bond with your spouse, because this much going on the stress, maybe your husband has lost his job made redundant.
So all of those external issues would have an impact on your relationship. So it's very important to understand and what can I say ignores the problem closely, then, okay, how can we make it tough? And of course, there are steps to addressing these marital issues and looking at for resolution. And then if all if you have tried all the steps and it's not working, of course, you can consider, you know, way out. But that should be the last resort. Because many times we find
I'm sorry, yes, can, you know, maybe conflicts within themselves, you know, and maybe need to, you know, address certain personal issues, then they can bring more to the table and, you know, offer things more in relationship. You see, if a person has a problem in their marriage, then they feel okay, divorce, you know, is going to fix it. Well, the thing is, if you have a problem, you don't address it, even if you divorce, you know, re marry a problem is not going to go away despite you divorcing that problem. We just travel along with you, you have to address certain issues.
Well, even even before mentioning, you know, the D word even before mentioning divorce, I would say so Pamela, you know, you know, they say never write a letter when you're angry. Right. You know, like, why do they say that? Why do we have that saying like this kind of like advice that our elders used to give us right, like, don't write an important letter or important reply to a message when you're in that heightened state of emotion, right. I think the reason is because later on when you're not angry, and you read that letter back, you'll realize how terrible it sounds, you know, and how you feelings might have changed, right? Yeah. So I think really important for people not to
make huge life decisions.
in a state of stress, when you are in a state of, you know, when things are abnormal, that's not the time to be making huge life decisions. In fact, that's the time to be kind of, I would say, to go into each mode. Yeah, you know, some kind of preservation mode where you're literally realizing sipan. And that's what sobor is, isn't it? Yeah, of course.
patiently persevering. Is that mode, where you realize that, okay, there's something different. That's an extra level of pressure on my family at the moment. I can't I can't use this period of time to judge, you know, what life is gonna be like, long term? Not at all right? Because, because it's not a normal period of time. So it's a global, and we'll see, but it's locked down. So we have to make it like, that is a time where we will be tested, and the relationship was Rocky,
be locked down, then, of course, this time is going to have a greater impact. Yeah. So I think you're very right in saying that, you know, this is not the time to be making such a life changing decision, you're just going to add on extra challenges, you know, in this difficult period. However, you know, I would say that, you know, locked on has bought about a lot of introspection on relationship in general, you know, people have started to reevaluate the relationship with the loved one, because we had to socially isolate, not just,
we couldn't meet our elders. Right. Exactly, exactly. And I don't think people realized how important is relationship and connections are, because we just took it for granted. I mean, I took for myself, you know, I used to get together every Saturday with my family, when locked into place, I felt as if my evenings were a bit like, you know, I felt lost, because it was taken that, you know, Saturday evening, I'll meet together with my family members, and I really missed them. And I realized how important such relationships are that we take it for granted, or we can only meet up with the family. Also, some of my friends, I couldn't see, I realized how important those
relationships are, at that time in life, you get so busy, and with that, you know, we don't have time, but lockdown showed us that said, you have to make time for because they make you feel as a whole person, you know, they give you a lot of joy. And they make you feel like, you know, you're present, you know, and they make you feel alive, because the people that you share your life with, you know, it makes your life what it is hamdulillah. So, I guess it's introspection for all types of relationship. I think another thing is that a lot of the time, in these kinds of situations, we, we put the, like, if we're facing problems, or if we're noticing clashes with our spouse or other
family members, we tend to put the blame on them, or we we think there's some character problem with that person, or, you know, with the situation. But actually, a lot of the time, I think, especially in lockdown, I think one of the things that one of the real problems was not actually that, you know, your personalities clashing, or you've got differences that you cannot reconcile, etc, etc. A lot of the time, it was just about being more organized. And like I'm being really oversimplifying things. But so Pamela, if you're using the same space now, for everything, everyone is working from home, everyone is doing all of their activities, you know, maybe children are studying people trying
to get essays done, you know, because during lockdown, I was I had things like that. So there is this stress, and then more, you're eating at home more, right? So there's more or less, there's more mess to clear up. There's more. There's more to be done. Right. So I think sometimes the stress of that on that now you actually have to get reorganized,
allocating space, and saying, Yeah, I have a family meeting, you know, you need to have a family meeting and say, guys, you know, we we need to work this out. We're going to, we don't know how long we're going to be in this situation. We want to sit down, we're going to work out what each of our needs are.
And what space in the house is needed. By whom, right?
Who's going to be doing these chores, you know, who's going to be doing these different jobs
to prevent overwhelm, right. So I know that it sounds like I'm oversimplifying it, but actually I think sometimes the clashes that take place are actually over
Things that are quite easy to solve if we are willing to like pinpoint actually, what is it? What is it that's causing this event? Or what is it that's cause this, this tension, right? is actually just that, you know, our personalities are completely different. No, it's probably not that, it's probably just that you now have to renegotiate your relationship, you have to renegotiate the space that you're sharing together as a family right.
Now, I think
eating at home has brought a lot of stress in the family dynamics, and resources. Of course, sharing it between the family members has been a challenge. I mean, like people who live in say, you know, small accommodation, you know, many accommodation, when they're together in one under one roof, obviously, there's going to be a level of irritation and annoyance, you have to kind of create your own, you know, space, personal space that you can get away from the family and have it yourself, we're gonna have time where you can study or do your thing, you know, and so having an understanding between family members, okay, this time, I'm going to be using the room or living room, therefore,
please do not disturb. So having that communication so that there is understanding, you can have your own space, neatly, would help to prevent a lot of arguments, a lot of you know, conflicts also, together, of course, everyone's eating together, everyone's you know, eating home, there's more, you know, mess been made. And, of course, the question is, who's going to clean up after these mess that's been, you know, have made, so responsibility, sharing, it barely makes it easy on the homemaker or the mother or the wife in the house. And I know, many sisters have complained that you look down, it seems that I'm forever cooking, and I'm forever cleaning, and I'm forever hiding up.
Because obviously, members of the home inside the house and of course, you know, living creates mess, you know, and sometimes it can create a lot of irritation and a lot of, you know, arguments and you might think, okay, we've got a problem in our relationship, but it's not just some simple things of understanding, okay, you know, what, we need to share the load, because everyone's sharing the space, I'm going to share the load, maybe like, you know, having a you know, like, discussion, look, you know, we're together. Like we said, family meeting is a great thing, you know, because, you know, we, we place you see people together, working on it together, there has to be
communication and the communication is done through meeting together. So family meeting is excellent. I remember, when the lockdown to place we were discussing, okay, how should we spend the time? effectively, what should we do? Okay, maybe it's a good thing that, you know, we're together, maybe you could pray together. So having that time where we can understand
that tively, you know, so it's okay, we're together. So maybe we can include some kind of reminder. So when I think in productivity, can be timely, we can come together, we can eat together now that we all under the same roof, there has to be time where we go off and do our thing as well.
family meetings? Yeah. So Pamela, you know, you reminded me that one of the things I would say, there are a few things that really helped and I'm just going to share them so that, you know, maybe other people could benefit from this.
One of the things that really helped is we actually wrote down the times that we were going to pray in Jamal in the house, right? And we just wrote it down, and it was put in front in our sitting room, you know, a prayer area. And that way, instead of there being like arguments or, you know, stress about getting everybody together, and everyone knew at the beginning of the day, what the times of prayer are going to be for the French Ummah, and that way, and we allocated that the job of like, leading the prayer and calling everybody to my elder son. So in a way, it kind of made things a lot smoother, just setting that time. And I know it sounds like a simple thing, right? But without
setting the times what was happening is, you know, literally, even people don't pray in jomar or literally going around, calling everybody and getting tired, right, like getting everybody together at a particular time. So just by doing a simple thing, such as setting the prayer times for the week, you know, yeah, as a family really made a difference. Another thing that really I would say, got me through lockdown. I don't know if you can identify with this is
very soon into lockdown. I contacted my my one of my teachers in Egypt and I said, I am
Need daily Quran class with you? Right?
Like, obviously, I know how to read Quran, I've, you know, I've got an A Jesus upon, like, you know, in reciting Quran, that's not the reason why I needed a teacher, I needed somebody to help me get disciplined about reciting and memorizing Quran every single morning, you know. And obviously, we each know ourselves best. And I knew that if I do not have a teacher who is going to phone me at a particular time in the morning, it's just not going to happen, you know, simply because there's so much, you know, so much to do, etc. And so just instituting that half an hour a day, throughout the whole of lockdown, half an hour, first thing in the morning, I had the Quran, recitation or grammar
memorization class, which I would attend my teacher in Egypt, over zoom. And I'm telling you that, that half an hour was like, the power station for the whole day, you know,
always gave me something to reflect on. You know, it just made my heart feel alive during that time. And, you know, we even had two deaths in our family, like, you know, extended family in India.
So, obviously, that kind of made things even more emotional, I think, you know,
but I would say that puran in the morning, and then a daily walk, which I was having straight after that.
And, in a way, those were my self care. You know, I remember last time that we talked about self care, quite a force, you know, and I really think that, you know, are on and exercise and self care during,
during this period. Yeah. Yeah, I think I think it's a very good point that you raised, I don't think we can stress enough the importance of having Quran on a regular basis, especially, you know, in the morning, you know, in a local anesthetic, kalama shoulder, you know, the granite cetacean in the morning is a very blessed thing to do. And I to, you know, when locked into place, I was really reevaluating my schedule for the
week. And I was thinking, Okay, Alhamdulillah, there's no rush for I can easily try to do this, that maybe before there was a lot of time constraint, well, I can easily do that. And you know, not feel that, okay, I can't, you know, lie in a bit longer, because obviously, the time it will in London in you is different to other parts of world, you don't have the luxury of having afternoon, a doula like people do in other parts of the world. But given given the fact that we had locked down, we were relaxed with regards to you know, the timing and hamdulillah when Ramadan came, I'm sure you have heard many people say that it was one of the best Ramadan because it was no rush in, even if
thorough thorough, you can really enjoy your, you know, night prayers, because there was nothing kind of, you know, rush for, you know, because people were working from home 100, it was a blessing in disguise. So before we move on,
to speaking about how to raise a half, because that was one of the topics that we're going to talk about,
I guess one of the last thing that we can kind of say to people is, you know, if you are having challenges, and you were having challenges that you know, quite major and that you feel that really needed resolving, then there's no shame and there's no harm in seeking help from marital counselors, right. And therapists, of course, just something I personally feel very strongly about, because I have seen over the years, many sisters because obviously my work with sisters, women, they have come to me thinking that their marriage is over. And then when I was listing and booking with them, I realized actually, marriage is not main issue, like I said in the previous podcast, for other things
that's going on in in, in the sisters life and you must address those issues. And believe it or not, through through conversation, I was able to identify with the sister where the issue was coming from and the 100 law, you know, sometimes put everything in the marriage is the problem, but actually there are other factors that's causing strain in the relationship. When you know, when they give us some examples, could you give us some examples of Okay, so for example, the things that our husband is going through, she's at work, yeah. So is making him very irritated. And you know, the sister is thinking otherwise you will irritate it in
He seems always very annoyed, very angry. No, have I done something, of course men behave to women, you know, and he may feel that, okay, he doesn't want to burden her with these troubles at work. So he may not speak to her about, he may just withdraw. And that may make her feel well, he's not, you know, showing any affection, he's not responding. He's not talking to me, he's just going into a man cave.
But if you really think about it, you know, if you were to speak to the man separately, and say, okay, what's going on, you would say, you know, that, you know, he's going through financial difficulties isn't what he feels like, you know, you're not able to provide for the family, and that is causing a lot of stress, it's given him with boosting influence. So, you know, he's going through his own issues, it's got nothing to do with the marriage, he's actually worried for the family. But, you know, the system may take the wrong end of the stick not and how we're going to resolve this by, you know, communicating and understanding, okay, where are we coming from? You know, and that's why
not the husband and wife lead described it as leaders, why because we are there for covering and protect and comforting each other, you know, just trying to understand, okay, what's going on? Why is the lightning find to address issues? You know, other situation where maybe you you find that, you know, like Fudan going through some kind of troubling, you know, episodes in their life. And that may take the mother away from, you know, the father, because she's really stressed. So external factors put a lot of strain in the relationship. And it's important for us to evaluate, okay, what's going on in my life, you know, then the pandemic as an impact on the relationship, but always trying
to think and understand what's happening in the relationship, what's happening in the family home, untimely death in the family home, and have such a huge impact. People are emotional, they're grieving, they're going through trauma, you know, of course, it's going to have a, you know, from the relationship, so we have to be mindful of pages ill health, many people fell ill has an impact on the relationship that has an impact on the family home, who's gonna, who's gonna clean, you know, who's going to do the chores, that you know, was an all the time, but it kind of creates a new, dynamic, new, new challenge for the family, movies. And of course, it's gonna, you know, into the
relationship. But what I'm saying is that, whenever you feel that, oh, my marriage is not working. Don't just think if the relationship think about the external factors that are causing impact in your relationship and try to address them. pathologically, yeah. And I to always, always seek help, because you might be surprised telephone call with a counselor, you know, a, you know, advice from a scholar meters fix the problem may just help you to identify what the problem is. Because sometimes when you're in the problem, it's very hard to see what you know, she is, but when you speak to somebody, they can immediately say, you know, what, I think you were actually quite a stress. And
when your stress and and everything seems, seems too much for you, because you've got a lot on your plate.
I think people feel afraid, don't they to make that take that first step to reaching out to a counselor. But so Pamela, one of the things that, you know, you realize, when you work with people is that actually, you know, when it comes to this, the services that are out there, there are different types, obviously, there's marriage counseling, there's therapy, there's also a mediation that scholars, Islamic scholars provide, right? And Muslim counselors as well. So I think whether it's Muslim or non Muslim counselors,
one of the things people can be reassured with is that they're very discreet. You know, I know that a lot of families probably think, you know, nobody, nobody's having these problems except me, right. But believe, believe me, those counselors, they've heard everything already, you know, there's nothing that you're going to be telling them that they're going to be surprised with, you know, they've got a lot of experience a lot of the time. So it's definitely an avenue worth exploring. Because, you know, one of the things I think is that look,
before you're going to make any kind of big decision or you're going to kind of
even think about something negative within your marriage. What you want to do is you want to try to, you know, exhaust all the different avenues that there are
In trying to fix things, right, and trying to make things better, and that can be introspection, your own, you know, analysis, etc. But it can also take the form of mediation, you know, in a very discreet way, no need for the whole neighborhood to know, no need for anyone to know, actually, except those people who are trying to help you. But you know, this is actually a sunlight, isn't it? It's in the Koran that, you know, if things get to a very, very serious stage, then the woman should bring somebody from her side, the man should bring someone from his side, and they can have some kind of mediation, right.
That's one one way to do it.
So I think, in the Muslim community, we need to get away from feeling that there's any kind of taboo in
Because I'd rather people were seeking help, right? And yes, sometimes that might mean sharing some uncomfortable stuff, right? With a third party, but I'd rather you sought help, and you resolved your issues. And then you were a good, you know, strong family, a stronger family after that, then you made some kind of big decision, and then later realize that actually, I didn't really do my best, you know, I didn't do my best to fix that situation. Right? That would be worse, right?
Mm hmm. Of course, is what did you just finally add, also, Fatima is that the people who are, you know, in the family, and the community could be willing to, you know, assist in reconsideration if they are approached? Because sometimes like to go to those who they know. And if they come to you, you know, you should think of, you know, let me try and help, even if it means just listening to both sides of the stories, but we shouldn't shy away from hoping to reconcile, because there's a lot of reward in that.
Definitely, you know, so Pamela, so on.
May Allah subhanaw, taala, make our marriages strong and make our families strong, because family is the bedrock of the community, right. And sisters, my message to sisters out there especially is, you know, take care of yourselves. You know, a lot of the time, it's because sisters, we don't take care of ourselves, we don't take care of our own needs, we, we act, we behave like martyrs, in the family. And then, you know, we complain, right? The point is, you've got to take care of yourself, you know, what your needs are, and create the structures and the, you know, the habits and the, the, the structure around you that helps you to be the best, the best you that you can be in Sean.
On tell her we're going to move on to talk about raising a half fifth, right, raising a habit. So I know that you have martial law, you have a son who
has memorized the Quran, I have a son who's known as the Koran. Technically, I have three who started to memorize the Quran, and
one of them has completed his hip. So I just wanted to ask you about that journey, you know, like, what made you want to raise a half of why should our viewers and listeners out there think of raising their children upon this path?
Of course, on Allah, my
intention to make my son happy started when I was in Egypt, and I saw how people they memorize the Quran and how, you know, the trend in many Muslim countries for the young children to be to the Quran and to be encouraged to memorize the Quran. And I remember what I was studying myself in Egypt is to leave my son behind with my husband and there was a channel by Macharia Raja delicacy called the fast channel. And I would notice he was only one and a half years of age, you would really gravitate towards that channel and to some of the you know, Nasheed and some of the teachings and I put myself it will be really good. He can become a habit. And of course, the, you know, how do we
know where if the recite of the Quran, you know, besides and he implements then the parents of that recital is going to be
awarded with the crown of light. And that, you know, ahaadeeth was very much in my mind when I was thinking about it.
Putting my son towards a gift and, you know, being happier. I think, initially, I caught myself, like many of us in in in a very ideal way that you know, when he's you know, a toddler, or when he's in primary school years will go in Egypt and you'll, you know, memorize the Quran but of course things don't happen in an idle fashion. So I had to just make a start in UK and equal the opportunities that are available to help me in this journey to make or encouraging towards Quran.
You Yes, a panel of second hand for sharing that? Yeah, I think for me, it was similar in the sense that
ever since I was a teenager, I I heard I was listening to talks, you know, by sure your and they would be like really talking about the virtues of heaven. And so I knew when I had a son, when I had a child, any child, you know, whether it would have been a daughter or son, I think I would have had the same approach. But I happened to have a son, I realized that it was such a huge opportunity, you know,
having this child from birth, it was like, potential, you know, and I was trying to think of all the things that maybe I wish that I'd done, right, I'm not saying but, you know, I'm not advocating that, you know, we, we put on to our children, all the dreams that we've had, you know, that's not what I mean. But what I mean is, there's certain
there's certain strengths that children have, right, that they only have for a temporary amount of time. I mean, obviously, you can do half, even when you're ultra young or old. However, nobody can deny it, right? That there's something special about being young, and memorizing, being young. And learning a language even right now is completely different to, you know, when you get past a certain age. So I think part of it was just realizing that, you know, this little toddler, he can memorize anything so easily, you know,
I really needed to make the most of those years. Of course, when you're teaching the child court, and you know, in early years, it's like having on stone, looter on, it's like carving on sand. So of course, there's a lot of, you know, opportunities to actually utilize when the young, I actually when I was away in Egypt, I put myself Well, he's paying attention to this channel. And he's liking recitation of you know, that he so can actually introduce some of the, you know, set of the CDs by we can watch it. And actually, the first that I introduced was zanmai, like many people do, it was by mishary, Rashid, that I used to find that he was picking up, you know, and it was just and so
informally, you know, when he was five, I used to just put it on before going to sleep, then I would shoot soda. And before I knew, you know, he was picking things up. And I remember when he was six years of age, he completed some my end, I remember being able to design my party for him and his friends. And that's when I realized, actually, you know, what, and do it because when they called Cheves one, because you realize, okay, that potential, and then you carry on to the next juice, and then the next few years, and as you progress, you know, the journey does get quite tough, and there's a lot of fears, there's a lot of sweat
panela struggles, but it's worth it. 100 and 100. Definitely, I think, for me, I even started before birth, because I was memorizing sort of Bukhara at the time, when I was expecting and I don't know, I just felt like, the more I recited, the better it would be for my unborn child, you know,
apart from the burqa, you know, just, I don't know, I've read a lot about, you know, how, when the mother sings, or when she makes any kind of sound, you know, yeah, baby absorbs that. So, you know, I'd started from then I would say, and, yeah, it's interesting. You say this, because I think many people don't realize parenting actually starts in pregnancy. What you do in pregnancy really has an impact on your child that's, you know, gonna be born. And then this reminded me that before I was born, I was actually going to lots of teachmeet classes and teaching myself. I was immersed in you know, Quranic studies, and SubhanAllah. It was a natural progression when he was born. I was
thinking okay, until I've been teaching other sisters. Now it's my time to focus on my own time.
There's nothing, there's nothing like in your own file because, you know that, you know, every time he resets the hour or NASS or whatever, you know, that you are each going to ensure lobby one of your, so the kajaria, you know, it will even?
And I think just especially just Amar, right?
You know, first of all, obviously, as a mother, it's really important that we know how to recite Quran, right? And
can we like, learn Tajweed properly, because obviously, the way we recite is going to affect the way our child recites. But once we do have that, generally basic, decent knowledge of, you know, recitation, I would say, especially just a mom, believe me, it's quite easy for a child to pick that up. Even in the car, you know, if you've got just, um, my playing all the time, right, or even when they're playing in the morning, I remember first thing in the morning, while my this is before he could speak, by the way
I would be he would be playing, and I would have just on my own in the background, when I was putting him to sleep, I would recite, you know, sort of number and then slowly through go through the whole kind of
the whole Ges. And so what I felt was when he was old enough to actually memorize, like, be able to recite is almost as if he already knew it sounds really strange. Because all those early totally years he'd been hearing it
so much, it wasn't such a big struggle for him to actually
say it once it recited once, once, he could,
of course, the sounds that they hear they get familiar with. And I think we underestimate how much potlucks up from listening to the sounds. And I mean, we have a nursery and we see how children age two to three years of age, they would listen to a nursery rhyme. And they would pick it up the slide that Imagine if you use shortsword as like sort of a class for a nice bloke who can just pick it up because they are designed by Allah azza wa jal to be able to learn, and
hardwired to memorize. So, of course, of course, when I look at some of the you know, kudan in like, from non Muslim families, you know, they that, you know, I'm in learning piano, you know, play all these different, you know, things that they do for the vignette sense, you know, really doesn't, if you think about it, you know, it doesn't have much faded, they are passionate about it. But what about us upon Allah, you know, learning how to recite the Quran that didn't just give you Baraka in this life. Because you Baraka in the afterlife is what determines your station in the afterlife. Why wouldn't we, you know, that energy and in that time and money and effort, the reason why I say
money, because sometimes, you know, you have spent, you know, a lot of money in tuition in in, you know, classes because you need to outsource, and that's, that's a, you know, well spent in the way of a lesser budget.
I'm writing an article at the moment about raising a half of right, and I've got six, six kind of points that I'm going to highlight and the article is like a framework six points, I'm going to share those six points with you and I want to know what your thoughts are when I say those six points. Okay, inshallah, and tell me what your experiences are with those. So, number one, is vivid vision, vivid vision. And what I meant by that is, what I mean by that is that somebody in the family, especially one of the parents, especially, has got to have that kind of very clear vision, that we want to do this and we want to take it right till the end, you know,
in order for him to be successful, what would you say to that? Absolutely. Can this goes without saying, without a vision, you can't really achieve your goal of making your child happy, you know, having that intent that near, you know, along with the vision is very important, why do you want your dog to become a habit, you know, and of course, we know a lot of Packer comes about because of your near the water and say your intention, the more Baraka you will fall in the pursuit of achieving that goal. So yes, definitely having
vision and I think, and the vision is more powerful if it's for my mother, because fine in our history, you know, when we look at mothers, like, mother of a man behati, you know, she had that vision she had that foresightedness down when you push my son towards Elm and you know, followship. So she was doing everything within her means, and she was a single mother. But I think we put and, you know, we underestimate the vision of a mother, in particular, having that kind of focus. I mean, the other day, we were talking about, you know, the journey, and it is known that many have become happy because of the vision of the mother. So, Pamela, Yes, she's like a parent. And also, you know,
just that person also has to have in their mind the whole, you know, that idea about how, you know, the my head of the one who is an expert in reciting Quran and memorizing Quran will be with the angels on the Day of Judgment, right? Somebody has to have that vision in their mind in order to carry it through, especially through the hard times. Right. So that's the first one. The second one is firm foundation, right. And what I meant by firm foundation is, I feel that, although it's great to, like get children to memorize, okay, I think it's really important when there's slightly old or old enough to along with that memorization, okay, of the last juice, for example, if you're going to
start with the last with the last years,
also accompany it with the firm foundation of being able to read Arabic properly. And also, I know that this might sound extra, but to also study Arabic as a language.
I wonder what your thoughts are on that. I'm definitely I think, again, you see, in the society that we live in, you know, some families, if you are from the SE, con Chinese background, they would encourage the children to learn Mandarin, you know, some like
fries, they would encourage the children to learn learn French. Similarly, for the Muslim community, one of the language that we could encourage our children to learn is Arabic, and Alhamdulillah, there's so many opportunities for them to learn the Arabic language, you know, we have madrasahs we have institution, we have online institution. So yes, yes, giving them the start. Because when we were growing up, maybe we didn't have those facilities, you know, our parents may not have had the similar exposure to knowledge and, you know, facilities like we need to unhandled law, so yes, definitely encouraging them, you know, Arabic language. And also, I think the the other reason why I
emphasize that, as a firm foundation is that number one, it's actually actually helps to keep the child motivated, okay, because the more they can actually understand, as they get older, the more kind of it means something to them, right, the Quran and the words they're memorizing. But the other thing is, it will just make the whole hip process easier, because at some point, you don't want to be the one who is constantly sitting with them, getting them to memorize, right, you want them to have a little bit of independence as soon as possible, in terms of being able to read being able to read fluently.
And also, I think one of the things that I consider to be a firm foundation is that we should get our children along with their hip to read the Quran, beginning to end, at least once, you know, during their childhoods because the first of all the the Baraka from that, you know, the fact that you know, every letter is rewarded, but also because having completed the entire Qur'an, you know, they will be excellent at reciting and reading and Charlotte. So, you know, I think that would make a firm foundation. The third point is disciplined action. So, obviously, you know, doing his takes discipline, and it's like a daily, weekly, monthly, you need to have goals, you need to have some
kind of system, right, or some a teacher who can manage that system in place as you can within it is very important. And having this repetition may not be fun thing to do. But progress only comes about when you pick something over again and again. And
in order to have that in your Yeah, and I think and I think the other thing that I mean by that is, you know, like, sometimes we think when we first when we face the first obstacle, we think, oh, we can't carry on. But the point is not that you're not going to face obstacles. You
We'll face obstacles, but the point is, can you even once you face an obstacle, pick yourself up? And and keep going, you know, maybe change your strategy, but you just have to keep going in a disciplined manner. Yeah, that daily action. Yeah. In that, you know, um, on that note, I would say, mothers would play a role like a quote, you might find your child will stumble and feel plated, because he's having difficulty with certain passages. And mothers have to be, I know, it's not easy to do, because I've done it myself, you know, it's easy to get frustrated is easy to use your call. But you have to remember, by doing that, it's not going to really help and aid the child, you know,
you might even put the child off, you have to be that kind of coaches, at motivating, but not too pushy, that you put the child off the edge, you know, motivating but encouraging and having that if you can do it, come on, you know, we coaches inspire and motivate the athletes, you know, they try to push the athlete to a point where they reach their potential, but not too much that they break the athlete, so we have to play a role like a merciful cope with our because you are your you basically, you know, want them to succeed. So you have to be mindful, the comments and the Will you speak them? It's gonna make them or break them.
Yeah, so you've covered the next point, which is, for me maintain motivation. So you've got to find ways to maintain the motivation over that period of time, right? Where the three parties, I'm just celebrating it, you know, celebrating each milestone, right.
And actually having those one to one talks with your child, you know, about why we're doing this, what the benefits of it are going to be and how one day they're going to look back and be so glad that they did it. Right. Yeah.
And the last two points are integration. Okay, integration and lifelong revision. So what I mean by integration is, you know, once they're memorizing Quran, it's really important because obviously, a memorize of Quran alone is not going to be somebody who's necessarily going to go to gender, right? The Quran wasn't just sent for us to memorize is for us to integrate it into our lives, right? Yeah, yeah. And so what I meant by integration is, you know, doing things like for example, actually studying the Quran with them the stories in the Quran pointing out like when they're memorizing a particular surah actually the lessons, you know, the benefits from that, or what certain words mean,
and, you know, like, so that they can then internalize and integrate what they're memorizing into their personality. Hmm.
I couldn't agree with you more here because I remember there were times where, when things were going a bit slow, I used to just break in some explanation, many like storytelling in the passages of the Quran as is memorizing what this means. And I, you know, if I was aware of the tafsir, you know, we'll just go into the explanation. And it was just like, a nice break from the hip, but just to look at the meaning behind what he's memorizing. And when you do that, it kind of gives you a lot of life behind the idea that you're memorizing or revising. So yeah, you have to, you know, take the time know what the meaning of what you're reciting is, and $100.
Todd has the foundation of Arabic language, helps him to also understand what is he actually memorizing, and not only understand it in to memorize certain ayat because he knows, okay, this is what I'm reciting. And it's making sense because he's trying to interpret or translate in his mind. Everything that you mentioned, it actually complements the whole journey of memorizing and learning. And then finally, understanding the stories and, you know,
meaning of what a lie is saying to us the examples, the parables in the Quran, some of these parables, they're amazing, discuss the parables, because then, you know, it's not just, you know, it is more than what you are learning and finally, you have to take the time up view that because annalena study of the Quran, you know, it's like an ocean. The more deeper you go, the more gems you pick out, you know, and I think it's nice to experience that when you're out these beautiful gems. So and my last point was lifelong revision. I wanted to ask you about how like, how do you hope now, now that your son has memorized Koran? What do you plan or how do you
Hope to maintain that kind of because obviously, memorizing Quran is hard. Yeah, it kind of takes it's a challenge to get them through that initial memorization, right and revision on the first the first time they memorize it and revise it. But then obviously, there's a whole lifetime right of, of keeping the Quran. So what do you think you're going to be doing? Or what are some of the practices you've put into place that will help your son with that. inshallah, one of the things that we try to promote in our homes is the importance of having Quran like a companion. Oh, that means, you know, revising the Quran regularly, daily basis. And having that, you know, connection with the Quran,
Quran is like a friend where it you and it, you know, advises you through the different, you know, phases of life. So, the Maharajah for a half it is her lifelong commitment, no matter what he's doing with his studying, married, working, traveling has, he has committed to that, you know, a book therefore, has to protect in order for him to be protected by the book, that relationship is a continuous one, and will visit the grave. I often talk about the importance of, you know, being the, you know, people of color and because they're the special type of people, and, in fact, I was asking him the other day, you know, what made you obviously, as parents, we push them towards, you know,
his, but children have want to learn themselves, otherwise, it's not going to happen because the different individual and they have to make the decision as well that they want to memorize, otherwise, you're just, you know, in your head against a wall, you know, to have to be compliant to that gene as well they have to comply. So I'm you're saying that the thing that made him want to, you know, learn the Quran was that Hadith, you know, where, you know, the prophet Elijah was saying that amongst the man. And there are special types of people. And the companions, who are the yellow suit, Allah knows them. And then the process said, they are the poor and they're the people of color
and they are the special type of people because they are the people of a lesser origin. So
that was one of his motivation to want to know and learn and become a habit. I think, if we remind our sons that you know what, in order for you to be VIP, you have to keep the Maharajah up. You have to continue with the revision because revision is not, you know, exciting as learning you know, as sort of for the first time there's a lot of excitement. revision is a, you know, essential part of keeping it. Yeah, it's maintenance, maintenance. So Panama's Sokoloff Aaron Bella. So Alhamdulillah the points that I mentioned number one, vivid vision number two firm foundation, I'm just mentioning it because I know sisters are jhala and brothers writing writing these down. Number three
disciplined action number four integration integrating the Quran, your personality, number five, maintaining motivation throughout the hero's journey, and number six lifelong revision. So those are my kind of six, let's say my six point framework for
raising a half
and I hope inshallah, you know that that motivates parents out there, because, you know, even the parents of a half wave are going to be honored on the Day of Judgment, right? Show horse. Of course,
if you allow me I just want you mentioned some practical tips because when I was
going through the journey of HIV with my son, I really appreciated learning from different sisters or different family members, what are the steps so that I can also follow these steps? So someone who I would say is ask Allah make this journey easy for you Ba da of parent is something the panela is so powerful so you want your child to become a half. ask Allah to make this journey easy for you and help you to accomplish this journey. accomplish this goal for you also, have a connection with yourself. Because child who is trying to memorize would like you know, would inspiration from parents and if he sees that his parents are connected to the Quran will motivate him to be connected
with the Quran.
Take whatever means available to you. It could be that you have a you know, a madrasa nearby put child in a democratic way that you are able to homeschool and you're able to keep that one
want your child to quit? It could be that you have online facilities, you have a very good teacher, online, take that facilities and don't, okay, this is set in stone. As the child moves, you know, in the, you know,
the desert, maybe you need to adapt and adjust. And that's fine. Because whatever works for the present moment, go with that. Don't think that, okay, I'm just going to have on my class for six months, what about the afterwards, don't worry about the time afterward, take each step as it comes in Thala
routine is very important, is it going to be morning is your child a morning person, then that invest in the morning plan, if you find your child in a works better in the afternoon, or evening, then go with that, of course, many children they learn better in the morning because morning is you know, very, you know, a good time and a lot of barricades in the morning. But maybe your child is different or you know, slightly more inclined towards working in the afternoon, that's okay.
space for the Quran. It's very, very important even till this day, when I reflect, tell her he revises in his room sitting down. So it's very important that you create that specific space for your call to memorize, they say that if the space is allocated, then it's easier for the child to be focused and concentrate or not fit strep. strep strep with I would say
your child must have his personal to his himself. But he memorizes and revise from one mataf and it will change my heart. So that is going to help him and aid him.
No, I agree. And also, you can't look for the perfect solution all the time. Right? So like when we started here. I was like, Oh, I wish there was this perfect mustard with the perfect teacher and everything right. But the point is that we were in northwest London, you know, it's hard to find any hip teacher at all. I got my son to memorize Usama, that was fine. But beyond that, I really wanted there to be a teacher because I knew that, you know, there's a certain dynamic isn't there between I think also having a class having boys specially like together having that kind of sense of
camaraderie and you know, that this supporting one another?
No, actually, I should have added to is that, you know, and, um, time when when a child is put into a, you know, group of children who are memorizing can actually increase their motivation level, no need that it can give them a competitiveness that is so healthy, because they realize, okay, this child has exceeded me I need to catch up with that. Yes, that can be a very healthy competition. Like he's mentioned this in South Africa. Yet another facility with snafus soon, you know, that level?
I think I think troodon finitely thrive with level of competition. And we should encourage that in the Quran and in Arabic studies, because healthy competition will help them thrive.
Right, that you can only achieve when you mean a class full of other women who are trying to do the same thing. Definitely. And I think the thing to bear in mind is Look, if this isn't You know, sometimes people see people memorizing granted they think it's just like a parrot fashion type learning, right? But actually Actually Actually, if we bear in mind this that, you know, when a child memorizes Quran
there's a hadith isn't there that it becomes part of their flesh, you know, the Quran becomes a part of them. And the the the one who memorizes and recite Quran is not like the one who doesn't, you know, yeah, not at all. And the home in which Iran is recited is not like the home in which it's not recited. Right. Yeah. So I think it's really important to bear that in mind because I think just to mention this the probably the most powerful motivation for me
in getting my children to memorize Quran was,
you know, as a mother, you look around you feel afraid, don't you about this world, right? That your, your your children are going to be living in that your children are going to be raised in. There are all sorts of negative stories all the time, you know about how children go astray, get into trouble get into all sorts of things. And so I think as a mom, I just felt like the one best thing, probably the best thing I could do
was to make sure that my children had caught on in them
from a young age, because that would serve as a type of protection for them as well. Right?
Yeah, so Pamela, so I hope we've motivated all the moms and dads out there, it's not easy. It's not easy. It's worthwhile. Nothing in life is of value doesn't require effort.
It does get easier. You know, as time goes by, I would say I don't want to put anyone off. But what I mean by it's not easy as that look, there are going to be times when your child will be like, well, all the other kids are just playing right? Or the other kids are just watching Telly or whatever. Right.
But you know what, that is exactly why you need to do it, because you're training your child to know that actually, they're doing something that's more worthwhile. Right, then, you know, people just wasting their time, etc. Right? Yeah.
On that note, one thing I like to add, because I have noticed, amongst my other friends who's gonna, happy, happy that is to give your child a level of normality, meaning, for a happy child to be having fun, it's okay for a happy child to be wearing nice clothes, trendy clothes, you know? And not you, you know, stimuli, okay? They're going to be like a miny moe learners, and they no good to have anything to do with the world. Because I have noticed that sometime people have the stereotypical idea, okay, oh, he's a happy man, How come he's, you know, hair is like, so how come? He's you know, wearing nice clothes?
Or he's into football?
Or he's into, you know, like, avaliable he's in from, you know, like, I did some things, you know, yes. Yeah. Doesn't mean that, you know, you can't have other interests as well. So definitely, as parents, we have to, you know, kind of protect them from in, like, you know, having that stereotypical idea that I have is only going to be in a certain way, you have happened in all shapes and forms, and it's okay, because I'll be, you know, who he is authentic. So, at the same time, the bearers of the Quran, you know, I think that's very important for us mothers to know that Carl may have other interests, and it's okay to, you know, nurture those other interests as well. Yeah,
because I think when people, it's when people go to extremes, isn't it that was, then trouble takes place, because sometimes I have noticed, I had noticed when, you know, looking at the family, sometimes
there was this tendency in some of our generation to try to make our children into some sort of robots, you know, like, make them sort of know, it's true, like, you know, they're not allowed to utter a word that is out of place, they're not allowed to see anything that could be, you know, I don't know, you know, not the perfect image of a Muslim, you know, what a Muslim would see, etc, etc, etc, you know, and they're not allowed to mix with certain types of children, it shouldn't be like that. If you do that, you create, you create a monster, you create
a rounded human being, you have to be mindful that any form of extremism, it's not,
you can't maintain it long. Silence is what we strive for. And that's more, you know, sustainable. And that's what Islam teaches us, you know, the was about the balanced way, in fact, in fact,
so probably, yes, the balanced way. In fact, I would go so far as to say, the children who are doing here, we should give them even more right to enjoy themselves with the hell, right? They have even more right to do that. Right. So you know, if you know that saying work hard, play hard, right? Yes, we should allow them. But if they're working hard, you're working hard, you're working towards this noble goal. When it comes to halau things, you can also enjoy that fully, you know,
and I don't think we should,
we should prevent them from feeling that they've had a real childhood, you know,
had, you know, fit into football, like one of the things I used to do is buy tickets to visit football stadiums. You know, my kids just do a tour of their favorite football stadium, right? Things like that, you know, just let them have their other interests. Of course, we have to be mindful this fat and with that, it's time for this and it's time for that and in that you will create
rate the balance for the child and they realize, okay, my life is not fast, they stay in a variety makes life more interesting live and you know, more enjoyable, and that's where they can actually put their chronic, you know, understanding practice. Yeah, and also so that when as they grow older, you know, they do have a healthy lifestyle as well, because, you know, one of the problems of our times isn't it is a sedentary lifestyle, and, you know, when you are a student, or you're a scholar, or you're a happier, you know, you have to sit down quite a lot to do that.
Aside from that, you need to have physical exercise you need to have, you know, other interests, other mental kind of intellectual pursuits, right.
To keep you rounded, well rounded and developed holistically, right.
Yes, of course.
One more thing that I would like to add is that, you know, somehow, like, there might even be times during the half the journey that you want to actually take a break. And I know that people like they wouldn't like the idea of like, taking a break that you feel afraid that okay, what if you just end up stopping, right? But look,
Superman, like, you know, you know, your child the best, right? And when you see that your child is going through something, or they're going through some kind of period where, you know, maybe they need a break, even if it's a break of a day, or if it's a break of a few days, you know,
I think it's better to take a break and then carry on, rather than, you know, ending up giving up right, one day, so. So I think it's really important to know, you know, what are
Is this the right time for me to be kind of the sort of tough coach, you know, who keeps pushing them through? Or is this a time for me to actually back off a little bit, you know, because, again, we're not trying to force our children not trying to, like, you know, control their lives or anything like that. It's, this is about coaching them, encouraging them, and pushing them but, you know, in a balanced way, through,
you know, this period where there is going to be intense, but again, just like a coach, you've got to know when to push and when to kind of, you know, allow them to recover a little bit.
Agreed. I think
with that in Sharla, I hope
people who have ways to pursue heft in their children's life, inshallah, and obviously, the points that you made our fall could be applicable to our daughters as well as our sons inshallah.
Well, did I call her and tell her thank you so much for sharing your thoughts with us and your advice.
And inshallah, I'm going to wrap up now. Dear brothers and sisters, do share this episode with somebody who you think will benefit inshallah? Do you like the video and you could always subscribe to our channel as well as subscribing to our podcast wherever you listen to your podcasts. So once again on tell her we're going to say Salaam to you and we're going to have a knee
what Yeah, come and I'm going to bid our viewers and listeners farewell. That is that come along Heron. salaam aleikum wa rahmatullah. Who about a ghetto subhanak Allahu mo behind the gash head to Allah Allah elanda. a stockbroker where to boy like salaam aleikum wa rahmatullah warahmatullahi wabarakatuh. When it comes down