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Pre-Marital Conversations – Episode 3

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Edris Khamissa

Channel: Edris Khamissa

Series:

Episode Notes

The difference between love and infatuation
The conversation

Episode Transcript

© No part of this transcript may be copied or referenced or transmitted in any way whatsoever. Transcripts are auto-generated and thus will be be inaccurate. We are working on a system to allow volunteers to edit transcripts in a controlled system.


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Assalamu alaykum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh.

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In today's times, young couples are wanting to choose their own partners. They are these young couples that are going to their parents and saying, I want to marry so and so because I'm in love. And these new generation parents are exceeding to their children's requests. Because they've also, in all the years been so used to giving their children what they want, that they are forgetting to have conversations with their children. What I find happening is that such a marriage, which seems like a real fairytale marriage, because they found each other, they look so well suited, and the marriage then dissolves, there's an into the marriage, how could they have been a problem in the

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first place? shamima. That's precisely the point. And many of them are in fact, not even in love. They are infatuated, and we're going to need to explore that on one level. On the other level, Falling in Love is not a reason to marry someone else. You got to know the person got to know his background, you got to understand what kind of values he has, what kind of character what kind of individually is, and we are told, you know, that when you marry someone, you marry a person essentially, or to marry them for the faith. They believe the character, the person that they are. And, and that's the point you find that many of them suddenly after a few months, they say, Daddy,

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you know what, I don't love him anymore. In fact, I hate him. I hate him. So what has happened? So I think it's so fundamental for us to understand the fundamental distinctions between love and infatuation. We need to clear that and then then we can focus on the conversations they ought to have. I hear want to define infatuation. infatuation is the emotional impulse of love and tested by time or circumstance. Since infatuation can actually lead to real love. Sometimes it is difficult to see the difference. And I think that where the problem is where this young couple say that we we are in love. What's the differences between the two? What's infatuation? What love? I mean, this young

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couple of saying yes, we in love.

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How do we know that? He is in fact infatuation? How can the parents then tell the difference? You see one of the things and there we've got here, about 20 odd differences. And I think what we'll do, we'll go through a few of them anyway. The one is that when a person is infatuated, they fallen into it suddenly. But when it comes to love, it grows with time.

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With infatuation. it deepens little with time, and with love. It's always deepening. So it's an ongoing process. Yes. Also, also, this is an important thing, with infatuation. You want to intimacy now, but with a person in love, willing to wait after marriage, and a person who is infatuated, or they are up and down emotionally, the person in Love is a much more consistent person. So there's the EQ coming in. Absolutely, absolutely. Then a person was infatuated is really in love with love, right? But a person that is in love is in love with the person. The person that is infatuated is often fickle, capricious, ever changing. The person in love is faithful and dependable. And the kind

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of trees that you'd want in a person that you wanting to continue the rest of your life with. For example, if person x

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is in love with person way,

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and person y

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says, I do not want to continue with this relationship. Person x, because he's truly in love will say

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all the best no problem make dua for you in Sharla class, but if you are infatuated, you go make How could you do this to me because infatuation is a much more selfish thing. The other thing is this when a person is infatuated, he says, You know, I love her so much. I can't sleep or eat night. And you

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know, you hear the stories, right? But the person in low has the proper perspective, because that's

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Now the mature attitude, you know, you're not going to eat and sleep, you're going to be eating and sleeping for, what? 50 years. So having proper purpose perspective means that I'm falling in love, I'm getting to understand this person I'm going to be spending the rest of my life with, or, you know, the fact that we've already gone into marriage and understanding that, yes, there going to be these ups and downs. And it's an ongoing process. It's not just an event. Absolutely. Now you find, you know, when people tell you, for example, the person that is infatuated often speaks about how we broke off so many times, I was so angry, I told you exactly what I felt. But the person who is in

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love, does not panic, when a problem arises, one should discuss it, right. And the person who is infatuated, often speaks emphasize the beauty. You I don't think I'll ever meet a beautiful girl like that. But a person in love will speak about the character also, the person infatuated wants to get he wants to be a recipient, but person love wants to give.

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The person who is infatuated is often talking about my feelings. But the person who is in love speaks about the other's needs. So here we talking about being self centered. So if it's all about yourself, you know, he's not coming to the party, he's not being

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emotionally involved. He doesn't want to do this. And he's saying that and he's not coming.

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Getting involved in whatever I want happening. Already, it's a warning signal that we are on the infatuated side of life rather than being in love, or, you know, then being in love would be

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yes, I'm happy to do this. Because I know it's important to you, and happy to

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go and visit with your mum twice a week, because I know how special your relationship is with your mom and how much she sacrificed for you. Am I right? Yes. You know, just to summarize the other points, the point you make is so important that the person who is infatuated is always about me, myself, I, it's you, you are more concerned about that. You show no sensitivity to the other individual. And it's about more about, you know, exactly what my feelings are. It's about why don't you think about my particular feelings. And as a result of that, this can be very, very problematic, because the person love shows a lot more generosity shows more compassion, but the person infatuated

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is more egocentric. And you find or you're not considering my feelings there. I mean, surely, what about the other person's feelings? You care and love you both people must enjoy the same emotion and you find and this doesn't happen, you find that this kind of feeling and I say that infatuation is so intense is so it mesmerizes you and suddenly what happens the say, you know what, when you get married, they say it becomes an eye opener. Suddenly, you rooted in reality, and it's difficult to sustain that infatuation because you got to come to grips with the reality around you.

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Being possessive

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would fall and being infatuated. Okay. Okay. And what would the opposite to it be? The opposite is will allow the other person to relate to others. You know what happens, you know, when you are infatuated, suddenly, you find that you tell your spouse, please, I want you to cut off ties with all your friends, have nothing to do with them because of your own insecurities. And therefore all the time what you require. When you are infatuated, you require all the time information, you require mollycoddling, you require a person to always say to you, you know, I care for you, I love you come here, and everything else, and a person who is infatuated, will always see the other person

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when he's engaging with others, that all of them are in competition with a What about your image of the other person, you know, when your image of the other person is that, you know, he is perfect for me? The spouse is the most beautiful girl on Earth. Has, what lovely qualities about her and she is perfect. There's nothing more I require from that person.

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To my mind that would fall under in the infatuation category, am I right? Absolutely. What would be then they, I mean, what would be the opposite of that. So person

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Who is in love realizes that you have beautiful qualities and you have also other qualities that you can develop our strengths and we a weakness and accepting and accepting that he has that no one is perfect. You see

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one more I want to focus on.

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I keep expecting, you know, just to be happy all the time. I need to be happy, happy, happy, happy all the time. And it must just happen. I don't know how.

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Yeah, now you find this under which category No, that's that's infatuation. Now the other person who is in love knows that you can have issues, but you are able to deal with those issues and work these positivity you find what the person is infatuated, you know, although it seems a nice intense emotion, but there's a lot of negativity. Because what happens there going to be lots of unmet expectations.

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Would you know ultimately, whether it's

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the infatuation, or it is really somebody that you are in love with. I think if you look at what we shared points, you know, if you realize if it is more about you, for example, what you what it does, when you are infatuated, you are listening to your own inverted commas, heart, but not to the heart of the other. It's more about your own ego, it's more about to massage your own ego. So what you ready require someone that massages your ego, someone that massages your ego centric nature, way, it is a selfish infatuation is really a selfish feeling, right selfish feeling, and where you do not recognize the other. In other words, you are more concerned about the other person meeting your

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expectations rather than you yourself, meeting the expectation of the other and looking at what you think should be a solution to this particular

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problem or whatever. Now, you know, we into our third city address, and the the message that I'm getting is that, yes, it's really really important to have these conversations, not six years after marriage, not even six months after marriage, not even six days after marriage. But before the marriage. So we talking about here, the pre marital conversation.

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How would that benefit this future relationship? I think the the benefits for the premarital conversation is unbelievable. What would you do? Right? Number one, it will help you to understand the other, it will help you to understand the background of the other, you help you to understand the spirituality, the temperament, understand the family help you to understand, for example, the path of the other the childhood experience. So in other words, you have really and also what are his aspirations for the future? What are the value systems embedded in his own life? What is it that makes him angry? What is it that makes him sad? What is it? What are his pet aversions? What is pet

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hobbies? What about his social skills? So a whole range of things that you learn and why that is important? Naturally, you know, the conversations can go on indefinitely. And we are saying, We're not saying that you're going to flout the Sharia. And it's important to have those discussions, because my view is this, that if you are not prepared to have these conversations, for example, I give people 100 questions you need to ask each other before you marry, maybe 10 of them might be relevant to you, maybe 15, to your partner to be so you'd rather do that go through the process so that you are making now a more informed decision, not based on infatuation, not even based on the

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fact that you love him, but based on the reality on the ground as one. The other critical aspect is this, that today.

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I believe if young people go through this pre metal conversation, and we're not saying only the conversation between them. Also with the prospective in laws, I believe it'd be an effective antidote. It will stem the tide of divorces in our community. I know they are those couples that are saying.

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I began thinking of things that I wish my husband and I had talked about with each other. before we got married. We knew each other we got married, but we never had some conversations until the problem

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arose. So problem arose in this example, on child rearing. And it became an issue because I realized that mine and my spouse's child rearing practices were different. So the problem arose and we had to fix it, how many fights we could have saved ourselves? If we had talked about these things ahead of time? I'm talking here about child rearing, it could be related to anything. Okay, let's talk about child rearing. Right? That's fundamental. If you look at it, the the ought to be many questions to be asked about child rearing. Let's discuss a case in point. How would you raise as a child? Were you a happy child? Do you like the the parenting style of your parents? Whom do you love most your

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father or your mother? Did they express their love for each other? Have they expressed their love for you? How did they express their love for you? Right? And if you were to have children, what would you embrace of their parenting style? What would you reject? What are things that made you happy at home? What are things that really made you sad at home? So now these discussions are very, very critical, because psychologists have said, what you learn in the first five years of your life, you never ever learn for the rest of your life. So part of the premarital conversations ought to be a significant part of a significant part about your child rearing. So this child rearing you're

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talking about is now you actually already moving into the actual conversation, yes, that the couple, and their family should be, should be happy having, I mean, even for the exam, part of it is now the imagine, imagine this, that you never had the discussion, even for example, you know, many people, when you give them these questions, before they're married, they said, you know, just as well, you gave it to me, we never thought about it. For example, the wife might say, you know, after the marriage, you know, what? Or in the honeymoon, by the way, I don't have any kids. Yes. I don't want to have any kids show. unison I'm saying to you, or the husband says the same thing. So it's

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important that you discuss it. Right. And also, another thing, right, and you could have so many questions there. And you could the other one is also critical. What about your relationship history? I know of couples did not talk about it. They say sometimes in the honeymoon where the wife says, you know, she's comfortable with him. Say, darling, you know, my sushi bouboulina, my love. I'm so happy to be with you. He says, me too, is a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful city, but something in our thinking. I didn't know how to ask you, but I'm comfortable. Tell me about your relationship history. So the man might tell her, tell me about yours first. He says, Well, I am pure. I've never

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ever gone out with anyone, or the overtures that we made to me. But you know, I come from a staunch family. What about you?

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Well, he says, okay, is comfortable. He says no, I was a bit of a flirt. You know, I was flirtatious. And lots of girlfriends.

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And he would ask the next question. Were you intimate with them?

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inches? Yes, I was. Then another question might be asked. We are they now? Can they're married? We are this thing? Do I know them?

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Now suddenly, what happens is probing isn't it? Yes, she's probing now you'll find insecurity coming into being. Now if he wanted to marry someone with pure,

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untainted. We had no relationships with anyone else that question or two been asked before. Now this can trigger a whole range of things. Because now she's be thinking when she's married, when he's being intimate with me. Is he fantasizing about one of his exes? You know what I'm saying to you? So these questions have to be asked, we've got many many questions and we are prepared to share it in the contact us to share it with our listeners continue.

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What about sharing with each other their religious beliefs they've used and spirituality, the views on how to spiritually uplift the future children? You know, it's a very important you asking some very powerful questions today. shamima. I think you have eaten Well, my God. You see, the whole thing is that

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you might marry someone and you're a person of faith. And you realize the husband or wife says, You know what, I'm an agnostic, or I'm an atheist. Finish. It's finished, right. Okay. And now and

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Then you say find Vf children, then how you can bring them up is a good no issue, if bringing them up the way you prefer to bring them up. Now, so these questions, are you asking a very important one about,

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you know, I get to understand the spirituality and the spiritual beliefs of the spouse to be. And I say to myself, uh, you know what he or she is not very spiritual. I'll change that. I'll fix it, I'll slowly work on him or her. And I'll change that.

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Can I live with that person's belief system? Because what if I can't make that change, because I can't live on that assumption that now I'm going to sort it out. And there's always this grandiose idea that I'm going to fix him or her. You see Jemima, that's a such an important point. Now, when it comes to your belief system, it is something fundamentally one of the imperatives in our life. So you cannot be light hearted about it and hoping that someday you will know, you know, there'd be a magic wand, and there'll be a complete change. So then I think it'd be very, very foolish, for example, then, if you feel strongly about it, and in the sense that you want the to marry someone

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that is spiritual, or someone that is moving towards spirituality, someone who may not, for example, been reading Salah before, but started reading his Salah makes a commitment that he wants to be inclined that way, then it makes a big difference. So what I'm saying to you, if that issue, that's a red flag, and if that issue raises his head, then I would say to you Do not rush into the marriage. In fact, I would say do not get married. And in any of the conversations where there's this slight worry, or flat, slight fear, we cannot go on the assumption that, don't worry, I will sort out the problem. And, in fact, Jemima, it's not something you can compromise on is not

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something that is you can compromise, you're talking about fundamental beliefs. If it's something else, then perhaps this can be negotiated. You know, what about the question of asking the spouse to be?

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What are your priorities? Is it? Is it work? Is it a law? Is it me, that's going to be your priority? Is it going to be our kids? Is it going to be your family or my family? What is the main focus in your life, because that is going to give me a fair idea of where I fit in? Firstly, it'll give me an idea of the person's spirituality. It gives me an idea of where this person is headed. If he says, Oh, no, I have no focus in work. That means he's got no drive in him. So what what should I look for? In this conversation, you see that that's also a very critical question to us. Because in the end, when couples have a problem, when the values are not aligned, we're not saying there must

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be too much of the sameness. But the some nuanced approach something different is subtlety, that's fine. But in the end, we must subscribe to the same core values. Now you'll find that even if you regard family as priority, but the how much of a priority, they could be some slight differences, that is not an issue. So I think what's important, in the end, we need to look at Indian marriage is not about living in a theoretical vortex is about living in the real world. It's about your engagement with these things. And I think that has to be discussed. And if, for example, you find that none of those items that you raise, that you're completely non airline, non airline. And he

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says, Well, this is what I believe in. This is what I subscribe to. These are my value systems. And you know, exactly again, that that marriage is not going to work.

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Another important question that one should ask the department to be is the traditions that they value. You know, it could be social tradition, sometimes there's these cultural traditions that you've grown up with, that your family continued to do, and the spouse to be might not to even subscribe to it. What about certain traditions in terms of the religion, certain traditions that the family have, annually, this an extended family outing that happens,

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you know, is going to continue you know, that discussion needs to happen. What about personal traditions? What about the tradition that

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I in the weekend every Saturday and Sunday morning, I need to do exercise. And my partner to be subscribes to know with rest time and you know, we want to slip in are these relevant conversations as well? You see, shamima I want to just add a caveat the precondition what I'm saying to you, to people, you got to understand that when you marry you're also going to be exposed to new

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experiences, you cannot, for example, come they're so premeditated you say, because our family did not have this family tradition, then is wrong, right now is like the other family same because

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y'all do not have it doesn't make it wrong. You know what I'm saying to you, we don't get into that dynamic. We're not talking about compromising on the sherea. What is important is this, that in life, you find we are a diversified community. And we find that no one has the monopoly of knowledge. And when you travel, as I've done throughout the world, many parts of the world, you're able to see a lot of wisdom and many things that are happening, be it religious traditions, or otherwise. And I think the idea is, but if you as an individual, have made up your mind, that this tradition, this cultural fit, perhaps practice goes against your own value system, and you cannot

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live with it. In fact, you are livid that that family does that, again, is a red flag. So what we are saying is this, that these questions have to be asked. So these questions that we're talking about, is what gives you the insight to say, Yes, we are very compatible, and also helps us when the future conversations arrive, once we in marriage. And in this little disagreement, it's something we've already spoken about, therefore, shamima, do you not realize the wisdom by having talking about self esteem, you see, if you've got low self esteem, then you will not be able to adapt to any environment, everything becomes wrong, you are right, you want people to pander to you, and to

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ensure that you get what you want, and you're prepared to accept something that is new. Now, the next question I want to move on is, uh, you know, Why be sensitive? in some people's cases, we, you know, I want to talk about money. We, I'm going to ask the person, how do you handle money? Do you just spend it lavishly? Do you save money? Do you have any bad habits with money? Do you know spending on certain things I should know about? Do you spend when you feeling emotional, and other people say, you know, when I'm upset, I just go in on a shopping spree? Are you responsible? What is your history with money? What would the other person take offense to that kind of question and say,

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It's none of your business? You see, shamima

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it's so important that when you raise the issue, you say to the person, you know what, that you and I, if we get married, we want to be very happily married. Right? And but I think, therefore, I think, let us be open and ask us ourselves some questions, whatever questions you feed to us, asked me and I'm prepared to respond in that way we make an informed decision. It's about the way you can, it's not like this, you say to the person, okay, you know, marry me, I have 100 questions you have to ask immediately. Otherwise, you'd be in the presence of my father, my grandfather and my neighbors. So not

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different, right? It's about how you ask in an engaging way. Okay, but this question about money. Money is important. Money is one of the chief causes of problems in a marriage, you might have a husband who is impulsive, person likes, embellishment lizard, you know, on it, he likes to spend on cars and everything else. And then there is for example, history, that he has gone bankrupt number of times his father had to help him out. And also the old issue of money, the wife says, I'm working you working, how are we going to use this? A very importantly, and although you know, from Islamic perspective, the man has a responsibility about clothing, feeding and you know, you know,

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accommodating the, you know, you so what can happen for example, the be a discussion, the wife might say, you know, wife to be says, You know what, both of us are working with professional people, we are moving to our own home. Right, that's what we decided, for example, so we will, I will, we will help each other to do that, you know, what I'm saying to you, so it's about all of those things have to be discussed, you know, Okay, the next question that I have here, where, you know, with a couple could ask each other, what are the expectations of marriage, marital roles? That means, what is it that they want from each other? Who is responsible for watching the homeowners responsible for the

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cleaning, who is responsible for the cooking?

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Who do you think will be fulfilling certain relationship roles in the marriage? I mean, is what is clearly defining what is your role? What is my role

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is to them that perhaps should have been the first question right? You know what I'm saying to you, because it's about the expectations. Now. The for example,

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A girl might have been brought up in a very affluent home, where she had three or four servants, they have someone that's cooking, they have an au pair, and everyone else, they do nothing. Right. And we don't begrudge the master way. But then she's marrying someone else. Who should marry someone rather not someone else, someone who perhaps may not have that luxury. Right, right. And then

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and then they have a discussion about respective roles. I mean, she says, you know, what, in my home, I was treated like a princess like a queen. So you're gonna treat me the same way. So what do you mean is, well, I'm not going to do any cooking.

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If you cannot afford servants, then I'm said, you got to do it, you know what I'm saying to you. Now, if the ease, for example, that approach then can be problematic, as opposed to once you know, I have not done these things. But I would like to do it. In fact, I've been asking, you know,

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I'm going for cookery lesson, I'm doing this, I'm doing that. So there is a difference human approach, showing a greater degree of maturity. And therefore, you know, one of the things that I tell people that

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whilst you know, the critical aspect is choosing someone for his belief, his faith and strength of faith. You also I this is a personal view, or a personal view, I don't know whether you subscribe to it. Always try to marry someone who belongs to a similar social circle. So there isn't a sense of inadequacy. So you, for example, now, this person who enjoyed maybe traveling throughout the world, every year is going here, they're everywhere else. And this person here, this man was married. I mean, at best, you went to Zoo Lake, you know, or you went to, and Dove and you went to bark rainy for the weekend, and you're so excited. Imagine he gets married, right? He gets married, and he gets

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married, then he tells her Darling, you know, I'm gonna surprise you this weekend. She's so excited. So where we agree we're going to park raining.

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You know, she'll go, you know, what I'm saying to you is that can be the start of major problems, because now make him feel inadequate, you're not able to provide for me in the manner that I was accustomed to. So that's so so these are real things we're talking about, you know, creating lots of problems. Right?

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How about this question, asking the person what are your non negotiables in marriage? What is unacceptable in a marriage? No matter? What, what do you see as a really unforgiving unforgiveable as an offense that you won't tolerate?

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I think you know, shamima, every question you're asking is critical. You got to know, someone might say this. If you showed disrespect to my mother, my marriage is over. You know, because that's it. That's it if you show disrespect, or

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if you show me disrespect in public, you know, I tell my wife in public, you praise me at home, you can just eyes me, you know. And it reminds me of someone once said, you know, one day I had my wife on a nice is sick, man. You had your wife on a nice you lie. You said yes. How can you say no, I was hiding under the table.

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And my wife on a nice, so so that these are important questions for each person may have a different set of non negotiables. So that you know that exactly. to him. The family's most important or suspect is most important is life. But it's keeping the conversation open. But in fact, a lot of further question when, when when if I were to say, showing me disrespect, because what do you mean? I like to know? What do you mean? Exactly, you know, but then also, you know, earlier you said it's the way in which you ask the question, you know that now here you said Oh, if you show disrespect to my mother, then the marriage is over. Already. The person's back is correct. Yes. That whole

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scenario could be said a little different. You know, to me, family is the most important thing on earth. You are absolutely special to me. I will make sure I will try my utmost not to disrespect disrespect you. So in return, I need the following from you. Because I will make sure I am going to take your parents as my family and I'm not going to show them any disrespect. That's good. You see your UI a lot more Hickman wisdom. And when the person realizes, you know, you're going to respect me and give me dignity. Why should I show disrespect to his mommy? One final question that you think is of paramount importance. I have a whole host here but one

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all encompassing one that you feel

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a marriage cannot take place if this conversation didn't happen. You know what there are many that come to mind, I would want to know the person's temperament, right? The temperament. And if the person says, You know what, I have a short fuse, and I get upset very quickly, then you ask the question, when you get upset, how does your anger manifests? What do you do? What do you do? He says, sometimes I can get violent.

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So now that's, it's frightening. But if he says that I've now able to manage my anger, because I've gone for therapy, that's a good sign. That's a very, very good sign. And so therefore, it's important to find out about the person's temperament. I mean, for example, we can also look at addictions.

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You know, what kind of addictions You know, it may be a recovering addict. So there are many many questions inshallah we'll continue with it. Right and we'll talk about it the some of the other questions, but what we are saying, it is really an indication to the listeners that you cannot go into marriage blindly. You got to know the person as best as you can to engage him ask the right kind of questions, look at questions that will be critical in ensuring harmony in your home.

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In this the CD three we've spoken about love and infatuation and the difference between the two, the benefits of premarital conversations, and then we went on to discuss the actual conversations between the couple before the marriage, hence, us talking about the pre marital conversations.