Hangout 11 – Riad Ouarzazi – Sex Education
Channel: Boonaa Mohammed
File Size: 14.11MB
In this episode Boonaa Mohammed hang’s out with Sh. Riad Ouarzazi and they discuss Sex Education In Islam.
At that time, it was a lot of heat. But I can't see this is your brother Boehner Mohammed coming at you with another episode of hangout where we hang out. And I have another great interesting guest with us today here are zazzy and Alisha,
beautiful to have you here with us. I have a really interesting topic for you today. And this is one that has really been kind of in the back of my mind. Here in Canada, there's been a very hot topic, which has been discussed, which is children's education and particular sex education. Okay, there's a new bill that's been passed now that is basically trying to implement teaching sexual education to children at a much younger age. And in fact, including a lot of terminology that maybe we wouldn't have learned about maybe until we got a lot older. And so there's a lot of discussion right now as to how do we teach children about sex? And obviously, Islam has its own parameters about sexuality
around genders. But the question still remains because I know for myself as a young Muslim, I didn't really get the talk, you know what I'm saying? My parents never really talked to me about sex and something that's kind of like a, you know, we don't really talk about it in our homes. But how would you suggest Muslims bring up this topic? And how do we talk about sex with our kids? Right? Well, this notion that a lot of soccer semester will tell you, it's maybe even harder for me or for someone who has kids that has a teenager, you don't have like two teenagers now and 100 of them. And you know, on the top and the seven year old, and this now becomes really challenging when when you
know, you know, they're, they're gonna, by nature, their careers, you know, kiddies, you know, when, when you have a teenager, you know, it's the time to talk about girlfriends, boyfriends, sex, and things like that. It might sound like your time, I mean, I'm weighing twice her age, but there was no internet, right? Like you said, you know, my parents would never talk to me about something called sex. Like, it's a, I remember, one time, when you had like a postcard that has a man and a woman, that's all there's nothing like a man and woman hugging, and I got a beat.
You know, now you have these things on the internet, you know, just like you're going to the touch of a button, then you have all that be, it was not enough like that at the time. And for me to know about sex. You know, it just comes into schools in my time, you know, the friends and whatnot. But now, it's more challenging, you know, especially for us living in the West, and you have kids, and then now on top of that, the current with this bill, that, you know, they're going to stop teaching something more explicit to our kids. And here's the thing, the thing is somehow a lot, you know, who's making more noise, not the Muslims, the Muslims are gonna look quiet about it so much, but the
non Muslims are the ones who are making a lot of noise, you know, love demonstrations and things and whatnot, right? Do that, you know, and they're not, this is not right. They say this is not right. How can you people teach such a thing to our kids? So here are the Canadian government, the Canadian, you know, politicians that come in and say, it's totally wrong. I heard from one of my friends and colleagues who says, he went, he was born here, and went to school here. And he says, when he went to high school, they were teaching them things about the teacher would bring in condoms and say, let me teach you how to, again bring a camera. Yes.
This is a this is don't fool yourselves. This is done for yourselves. This is what goes on. And this was long time ago. This is this is not what I'm sure there's a lot more when a teacher would bring in you know, going into Junior, let me tell you what this is and how to use it. So they becoming so open. So I will not be surprised when they come to tell you about some filthy things, you know, and teach that to our kids. so and so and here's the other problem is sometimes when you want to talk about these things come some you know, uncle or Auntie who says a
back home. And I'm telling you when you mentioned even imagine, last time I mentioned something about menses. And some people got upset, said we were here with our kids. How can you talk about medicine? Wake up and smell What do you need to smell? They're talking about sex education, they're gonna teach your kid and might get and now you're, you know, you're feeling bad because I mentioned menses MCs is something. And so we need to deal with these issues, you know, we need to be open to these issues. And I always am in I'm an advocate of befriending our kids from the very beginning. So it becomes that type of bonding. So when you want to talk about these topics, it becomes sort of
easy not like you'd be away from your children, not kind of friends with your children. And it become kind of like awkward when you want to talk about sex with things that we're not even friends on your screen.
Your children will even trust you, they don't even have a good conversation with you. Because you're never they're gonna think you know, and then when you want to talk about such a topic, it becomes a No, I'd rather have some somebody else, talk to them about it. So I say, Yes, we need to talk to our children about these things, we need to inform them about these things. And we need to take some stance, really, they need to take some sense in many in many ways. As a father, I do have the right to go to that school and say, I don't want my kid to participate, you know, whenever there's an event, or there's an instance, or there's some sort of, because you can tell, you can go and tell
them, I need to know what you guys wouldn't be teaching this, this and that, so that, you know, I can, I can choose to have my son not go to that particular session, when they will be teaching about these things. But there's only so much you could do, you know, so we need to be upfront, we need to be more open to talk to our kids about such you know, these things and we need, you know, a discussion about it, I think it's about time that we need to be more open and leave the a bun and that higher affinity and although it's not the Hadith that says the higher affinity, there is no shame in terms of Deen, you know, it's not a it's not a Hadith, but the meaning of it is true that
when you talk about something you know about the deen, yes, you need to talk about, you know, sex, you know, especially when your kids
reach a certain age, you need to educate them before ACI if you don't tell them I'm sure they will know they will know either to the internet now, or to the France or through streets or through. Yeah, and sometimes you drive up to your drive, and you just stopped for the red light. And there's a bus next to you with a picture a billboard. Yeah, I mean, you cannot hide your children. Here's a billboard with some guy hugging the girl and kissing and whatnot. So what can you do? Talk to your child? So do you think the parent themselves actually has to have that conversation to explain to them, you know, the intricacies of male body parts and female body parts? This is something that the
parent actually has to do for me, the parents have to be more open with their kids to talk to them about their Of course there are certain limits, you're not going to get to that very details. But yes, the the body parts, you know, it's no you have to talk to children about as they start growing, that is sending those little girls that I'd rather have a girl talking mom talking to the girl and the boy talking to you, is that right? There's more of a spectrum that sense, you know, like we you my daughter and myself, maybe she would feel shy, almost embarrassed. But the first we have to have an understanding between the father and the mother to come to a sort of pocket understanding this is
what we need to have a plan. Once we have that plan that we got implement that plan, not talking to our children, you know, befriend them, bond with them day to church, really date them and take them out in all like today is me and my son on an outing together. So we build that friendship, that trust once I build that trust with him, he will listen to listen. And then from there on that stock about school let's talk about friends he's growing is going to have questions and then from there on is a talk about the changes of the body now Mashallah, you can just throw it like that. Oh, Mashallah. So you can see some hair growing now. You know, in all the hairs go, and then his body's
changing, and then you can start talking about the least change. So you think a good age would be roughly around puberty, then? Yeah. Okay. And you were mentioning this, but it's true that, you know, we live in a hyper sexualized society where just turning on the TV or just, you know, walking across the street, the billboards, you see the images of sex, that are literally plaguing our eyes everywhere we go. And so our kids actually know about sex maybe a lot further than they should someday do actually, no more than you do. You'd be surprised, really, and then you cannot actually just, you can try, you can just go to anything, because some parents, they still are totally
oblivious. They think that my kids don't know, they think that my kids are martial law, like, you know, angels on earth. Yeah, you'd be surprised your kids they know maybe writing in front of you, they feel like okay, shine. They know who you live in Canada, you live in the West, you live in America, you live in England, and you have now something called intranet, you may be you know, at home have some sort of
authority as to what they can see and what they cannot see, it's fine. But if you send them out this school, their friends, their love of things, so you only have a certain, certain limits to what can you know, you can sort of force on them and not force on them. So yes, I'd rather that come from me than having them to hear from a friend or from TV or from you know, school or the internet or whatnot. I'd rather me opening up to them and then opening up to me so that we can have that intelligent, friendly, you know, sort of discussion. Okay, now, here's a scenario for you. Okay. Now, you said you have you know, young young children, teenage age children. Imagine, okay, one of
your children, comes to you and says Mama, I want to have a boyfriend or bla bla, I want to have a girlfriend.
I mean, they're they're around novels. They go to school, like regular kids. So they see what's happening. On TV, they say, Oh, I wanna I want to have that. What would you What would you do? In fact, it did happen to me.
You know, with my son when we said that, what would you do? If you know that I have a girlfriend in this way? What would you do? My daughter when she's 16 years old? And he said, I'm already married in America. So yeah, married for 34 in one direction. What do you mean one direction?
One Direction. So I went to Bradford one day, and I said that don't you know this guy going to Bradford on you know, this guy what God
was a magnet saying whatever. Yeah. And they said, Can you email more and you?
Don't you know this day? I said, I usually what
we see what leader saying Malecon direction, you know, she's already married.
telling you some things like the maybe the viewers of the show, you know what these children have been wondering, why not wake up and smell what you need to smell is why you need to be very close, and with your children. So they know what this is why you need that relationship to talk to them. You know, maybe I'm sure he does not have a girlfriend, but he just tried to test me they'll say what would you do if I were to have a girlfriend or know that you have a girl? In fact, he came to tell me seriously. He says, Well, I heard that there was some girls will want to ask me out
what I heard that was what I mean, things like that. So what would you?
What would you do now. And this is where you need to connect them with Allah. You need to connect them with him. You need to connect them to Allah is good. I may not be here. Thank you. In fact, that is very good when he's coming to tell you things like that. Because if you did not trust him, he wouldn't talk to you. If he didn't trust you, He will not come to tell you what would you do if I have a girlfriend who will just want to have a girlfriend and be it? Nobody. So you teach them a lot. He's watching
his hearing. He's watching you. I may not be here me for me, I will trust you. You're right. But then you go behind me, you can take off the shop behind me and you go out and hold hands. And then when you come home, you're all that no innocent musbema and nobody knows that I'd rather have that conversation from them. And each other about a ledger though that had edited them up. How about if you want to do it? This is what happens when people do some hard things, and each other about a little tree and whatnot, and what can happen and you can tell about the diseases, you know, a bit about scaring debt and also at the same time tell them what happened and tell them about you know,
the virtues of of doing heroin and and what can happen if you were to do heroin? And would you want to do it in a would you want your sister to go out with somebody? What would you do like that man, okay to the Prophet, the young guy? Yeah, that's sort of a lot. You know, I want to do adultery. And then the Prophet asked him a question. So this guy asked the question, the prophet cancelled with the question, would you want to do would you want somebody to do what you do your sister to your daughter to mother? So Oh, my God, my son, you know, you want to have a girlfriend? You know? How would you want somebody to do have to go out with your sister? How about when you grew up and have a
daughter? How about your own mother? No, no. Okay, what how? Why do you want to do it with somebody? I mean, something like that. to open up again and talk to Daniela, it's interesting, you mentioned that because like we're saying, you know, sex is something that's rampant. And whether we acknowledge it or not, it does affect Muslim homes, you know, our children are watching things on TV, just like everybody else is like everybody else's kids. But another issue that definitely is a hot topic, and definitely we know is plaguing many of our families, many of our homes is the issue of pornography. And you know, taking these movies and TVs we see on TV a next step a step further,
where now, you know, you have you know, full on nudity, and people engaging in sexual activity. And a lot of our youth are addicted. It's a reality that many of us can't ignore as much as we may try. It's something that is plugging a lot of, you know, our social time, and it's a thing that they're doing secretly at home, you know, when the doors closed, and nobody's around. And it's something that we see now even having effects on married people, married couples, their husbands are not finding the same pleasure in their sexual life because of this side activity that they're engaging themselves in. I know you're a counselor, I know you deal with families. I'm sure that some of you
you've dealt with and heard about before, what are your thoughts are on that issue, specifically around pornography, but it's becoming the like you said, it's really it's a dilemma. And it's something really, that is some people may say, is it happening within the Muslims? It is really happening a lot and within the Muslim family communities, you'd be surprised to know that Islam way.com, which is a very well known website, they did a survey, and they in that survey, about how many people you know, access this x rated sites, and they found that really scary, scary result that a lot of like over 50%, you know, about 70 to 80% of youth are accessing
These x rated websites and love 50% of Muslims. And this is coming from Islam boy calm, you know, Muslims x, even this x rated website and who goes to Islam anyways, Islam way, you know, is a is a is a good, you know, Islamic website so a Muslim maybe I would say that Muslim was a practicing Muslim, these are the results of the practice it is as a result of the product, how about non practicing Muslims, you know, I've seen this x rated websites, so it is becoming like a plague. And with the internet, everything is possible the internet is all there. That is why, you know, we need to be really careful in our homes, what we bring in what we don't bring in, even when you introduce
the internet into your home, there are certain, you know,
filters that you can, that you can, you know, there's only so much you can do. But I think the best education that starts in talking about school and whatnot is home education is the you know, you are the first indicator, you know, to your kids not talking about going and taking them to the static school and whatnot. The the primary indicator is the father and the mother of love with responsibility about you know, our obligations towards our kids. So yes, again, about opening up to our kids talking to them about it. And there's a lot of things that we can't hide from, like you said, pornography, even husbands now, you know, here's the problem, the husband who goes and they
they're addicted, what law husbands who are who have kids addicted to this x rated sites. And now they don't look at the world the same way they were, they were looking at them before why because it's a sickness thing is therapy, they need the sessions of therapy, because they've been, you know, their eyes have become so filthy watching these, you know, women and x rated things. So when he comes home, here's the thing, either he does not look at his wife the same way he used to look at her before, or he expect his wife to do things that he was watching in those movies and those sites. So what happens the wife does not know.
He expects her either to know, or if the wife tries to learn and do things and whatnot. Some of the committee they say, Who told you this? Or who? How did you know about this? And then comes another big problem? Oh, you must have been going up with others before you married me and whatnot. It's a big dilemma. That requires you know, sessions of you know,
how does somebody who can say somebody is addicted to pornography, or they're addicted to masturbation or they're addicted to, you know, this kind of lifestyle?
It is a big question, but how does somebody escape from it? How does somebody you know, it's not like a one thing you know, here, let me give you a pair of Tylenol, you have headache, take Tylenol, we should. It's not like a one thing, this lot of things. I hate it. It's a therapy. It's the sessions of therapy, you know, as somebody who's been eating, you know, junk food for years, and now he wants to lose weight. Well, you've been eating junk food for so many years isn't going to be like, then you'd be my Sharla six pack, you know? So likewise, this guy's been watching and got addicted to this x rated stuff for For how long? Now we need him to suck in addiction you've been
drugged, you know, there's a drug problem here. So we need to take that person out from drug What do we do, we take that person into that, you know,
sessions of therapy that may take months that may take years, but first we take that person out from the environments in the building is going to be really hard, you know, because that person would have that gravy, you know that person but come out from that environment. And this is your time doing things so that when you come home, you have more time to go and look at that stuff, you know you're home you're tired, you go straight to bed and sleep so busy yourself don't stay by yourself because oftentimes when you're alone, this is where the ship comes in. And then you'll just go out and just even if you don't want to but you're alone you'll wind up you know so try to busier time
try to be with the family try to avoid being alone in the it's during that steps when you're in there under the healing process. And so they are you know, able to sort of like walk on your I've also heard a good advice that people should leave computers and open places up so a lot of times for young guys that have you know their own computer as if you know that there's an issue that you should place computers in a common area I have that actually at home is it that we have it's in the it's in the family room, or exactly what it's in the kitchen, we have a family room right there, that's where the computer is. So if my children whatnot, they want to use it, it's there so at least
does need to be I know some parents maybe feel a little bit shy I didn't want to invade in the Children's Choir not invading but I had this you know, you need to monitor to search to search to certain extent. I mean, I'm not like micro management, but these are the companies that even if I'm not there, you know, they will understand that okay, you know, again, education of law is watching, I may not be there but Allah is watching right so you know what you can live up to our last. Speaking of education, one of the things that is kind of the result of this now phenomenon we see with this bill trying to be passed into parliament around
Sex education in public schools is that a lot of parents are now trying to explore the option of Islamic school. So, you know, now they're getting scared. They're like, Oh, we need to leave our kids to public school, we don't know what's going to happen to them. And so now, it's not a school slowly, becoming a lot more popular in the discourse around this particular topic of children's education. One of the issues that people have with Islamic schools, and I'm sure you notice, I'm just kind of explaining it is that some people feel as though Islamic schools are not up to par. Right. So they feel as though that education quality My child is going to be receiving in an Islamic
school is not as good as what you'd be receiving in a public school. True. But at the same time, a lot of parents that was, you know, children who go to assignments will feel like, I would rather give my children maybe, quote unquote, a subpar education, but ensure that islamically they're being looked after. Yeah, so these kind of these two wings that are kind of going back and forth, what is your take on this particular issue? And and what's a good way to make it? So it's a very good question, because we have to deal with this thing. So here's the thing with Islamic schools there. You mentioned, number one, you know, they're not up to par, you know, a lot of them realistically,
yes. You know, they're not as professional as not Muslim schools, as public schools.
A lot of teachers who teach in those Islamic schools are also not, you know, well educated or I wouldn't say what educated but qualified in
the western sense. They're not qualified to teach certain topics. I visited some Islamic webs in schools myself, and I've seen that with my own stuff, you know, the
the mannerism and lack of love in a Muslim school, but it just with the title, I'm not against Muslim school, but I'm just talking about if we can have really professional, professional,
high standard in Muslim schools. And here's the other problem about STEM schools. Not only that they're not a lot of them are not up to par. And which is true, but also
financially Are you not have a lot of parents cannot afford to send their kids to, you know, Islamic schools, especially those who have 234 kids and we Muslims,
Muslim families, a lot of Muslim families, Mashallah we only drive you know, the minivan so why don't we drop in events, we have kids.
So here we are four or five guests, Mashallah. He got his name exploded, talking about for $500, who can afford to pay 2000 mortgage and
so wanted to talk about the reality. The reality is yes. Okay, Muslim school. Number one, is it really a solution? Number two, can I afford that Muslim school? You know,
reality, Realistically speaking, a lot of Muslims will live, let's say here in the West cannot afford, you know, Muslim schools. So they will end up taking their kids to public schools. But here but the Buddha, again, would come back to the same thing this thing is, the education starts from home, you send your kid to Muslim school, right? And you think he's gonna come back as Adam, or email, or LA Muslim school, it just does a job it does it, they teach you from the same curriculum, just that they do. They feel trained, and they add in an Islamic education, that's what they do. You know, if there's a sex education, they choose not to teach it. Okay, that's good. And then they
teach him Islamic, you know, content, and they include that in this is what an Islamic school is, and then also the environment. But I don't want to tell you the things that I've seen in Islamic schools, high schools, and don't don't think that, you know, they are free from drugs, have boyfriends and girlfriends, Realistically speaking, the same thing, do exist in some in some Islamic schools, our counselor, and I've seen things and people came to me and I don't want to just paint it as it's all beautiful. Um, you know, just you know, we need to talk about the reality.
So the thing, the other thing is when something you know,
the mom does not want a job and the father doesn't pray, hit this kid to Islamic school. They teach them about Sarah, latest amount of hijab, the guy goes back home, he gets confused. Here I am learning about hijab, my mother drives me She doesn't even
my father, you know, he doesn't pray, and I'm reading about Salah, we sometimes we confuse our own kids. So here's the devil standards, right? That was standard. So are these Muslim schools that really know the solution? Yes, no, it's another topic on its own. So it's just to maybe take a different direction. So within the public school sphere, there's also the idea of Catholic schools,
which is, you know, a semi religious environment. Actually, my mother went to a Catholic school in Ethiopia. That was one of the options they didn't really have, you know, slamming school. At that time, good. Catholic schools are open to my mother went to a very, very well, well established Catholic school. What are your thoughts on that? Muslim school? Actually, I visited a Catholic school before I did some workshops there. And I was surprised to see some Muslim kids inside the class and I was like, What are you guys doing here? Yeah. You know what? That
To a surprise you I went to Catholic school when I was a kid, you know, in Morocco, we have a lot of Catholic middle Morocco is was dominated by the French right. So we have that friendship set of Mashallah, oh yeah, a lot A lot, even the business their business language is French. So we have lots of you know, we call them the the school the schools and the smart most is elementary school right? run by the path and they may have already sell, you know, the parent the father's right or by the sisters or not. Right, right. So I went to the schools, you know, up until I was about 10 or 12 years old. Wow. So here's the thing. And it was like French schools, they teach you they have of
course, Arabic Islamic education but no, like, what the teacher does. But the the Catholic education Yeah. Not Not Not Catholic, Islamic they don't teach McCarthyism there. Oh, it just you know, it's a school. And they do they have their own prison, whatnot. But we as students or pupils at the time, we do not participate in what they do. So here now in the West,
our kids because of the problems that we see in public schools, and maybe if I'm cannot afford to send my kids to an established school,
is Catholic school may be an option. Catholic High School, mostly like high school Catholic schools. What if I did my research on this Catholic schools? And yes, there are a lot of Muslims, HIV.
Catholics? Yes. So the Catholic schools, they attempt to be in fact more conservative. With regard to the sex education program that you were talking about here, this bill, it will not be enforced in the Catholic schools, right. Actually, a lot of Catholic schools are all girls schools, all boys schools, some that are segregated. Absolutely. So you know, something? Yes, I am. I'm for it before, I mean, I did my research, I would say no, but now that I did my research, and now I want to talk about the the less evil or whatnot. But if I were to, you know, be choose between public and Catholic, I would say Catholic, but here, there are certain restrictions or conditions.
They're in there, you know, they they do, whatever, you know, they're there, the mass and whatnot, the Muslims, they don't have to go, you know, you don't have to go. I even spoke to the principal himself. But by the way, so if a Muslim who goes to here, if they choose not to go, and they don't want to go, we I'm bringing my kids, for instance, because because this is a conservative school, and I'm a conservative, you know, I come from a conservative family. And, and but I do not want my kid to, you know, participate in this particular prayer.
So that's an option. You know, I'm sorry, there's no way that I would for me, I mean, you may have talked to somebody else who would say no harm and whatnot, people would have their own, you know, differences of opinions. But here, let's look at, you know, the pros and cons.
You know, at this, you know, you don't have things about drugs and boyfriends and girlfriends, even the uniforms that they were in Catholic schools. It's not like hot, you know, those are very skinny. Some are some are a little drizzle. Some schools are a little bit funny already.
But you're right, generally speaking, there's a uniform that there is.
Right there, right. And, and they teach you only certain things, and then you don't have to participate with the math and things like that. So I would prefer if I were to choose between that or public school and where I was told what law he was told that in some public schools, and I wouldn't be surprised if all
the teachers that that was some of the teachers use is like a swearing language public school in the school in the club. Oh, definitely. I went to public school. Oh, yeah. I used to hear in the class in the class. Sometimes you'll hear and I mean, it's definitely something that people but I think that the thing that we were speaking about, about even the guy who grew up in Canada and and learning about, you know, sex from the school. I mean, there's a lot of things I learned in school that definitely I wouldn't want my kids to learn. And a lot of times, I think our parents kind of dropped us here, and they didn't have the experience of the country that now we have. And so we're
kind of getting a better idea of what's happening here that maybe even so, I think there's a really interesting conversation. I think there's a lot of conversations our community needs to have around this topic around education, and around the idea of sex and sex education, and also pornography. I mean, we touched on it very lightly, but it is a huge issue. But definitely want to thank you for your time, very much in honor of having the benefit of your knowledge. And there's nothing left here for everybody watching. Make sure you stay involved by checking out the hashtag hangout show. Get involved. Let us know what you think about the topic. If there's anything you want us to add, you
can always check out the hashtag and join in the conversation there. There's nothing left for watching everyone. We'll see you next episode. This is Brother Mohammed signing off Santa Monica monumental ly equal market