Channel: Bilal Philips
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Assalamu Aleikum everyone. I Dr. Eva Han is the founder of liquid waste. It is an Islamic Robo advisory based in UAE. We have a highly qualified team with two doctorates and three advisors which have more than 10 years of experience in the industry, to tech way in which we are striving to promote and facilitate investments in halaal financial products. inshallah, we also plan to make the provide us a one stop Islamic financial solution. So today, the webinar is based on the importance of validation Islamic investment investments. Guest of Honor today is Dr. Burrell. Phyllis is a Jamaican comedian Islamic scholar who converted to Islam in the early 70s. He is also listed in the
500 most influential Muslims of the world. Then we are also joined by Mr. Guzman Malik, who is an award winning lecturer and has been supporting us since the time UCLA invest was in the development phase. Now I will give this mic to Mr. Guzman Malik and he will introduce himself as well as continue with the webinar. Thank you.
Salam alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakato always in forever, we begin In the name of Allah subhanaw taala. For indeed His name is worthy of beginning with, for indeed all praise and thanks belongs to him and him alone. And indeed He alone is worthy of worship. This is your brother in Islam, Islam, Abdullah Malik. And I want you to begin by highlighting a key message and that is that Islam is not just a religion, but Islam is a way of life. As Allah smart Allah describes it. So in the Quran, when he calls it, the dealing with the last one or the other is Islam, the way of life with the last one, the other is an Islam. And this is the hook from him. This is a reality from him. He is our
Creator. He is our Lord. And he has some one or the other, not just created us and left us to it, but rather he subhanaw taala is someone who provides a risk to us. He provides guidance to us, and He is one of the Allies looking after our affairs. He is responding to our prayers, and he is performing miracles for us on a day to day basis. What he learned hunt or present times belongs to him. And Allah is one of the Allah provides us guide guidance with regards to how to live our life as well. And he subhanaw taala does not leave anything out at all. He covers it from an economical perspective, from a political perspective, from a social and legal perspective, and much, much more
subhana wa Tada. So in order to fully understand the philosophy of Islam itself, we have to reflect upon the philosophy of Islam, upon money, finance, wealth, and business as well as trade and entrepreneurship and anything that has to do with any aspect of economics, whether that be at a micro level or at a macro level. So this will help us understand the significance of what risk is and will make us appreciate allows one or the other as a result, as the ultimate provider. So I want you to begin with the Hadith of the Prophet of Allah sallallahu Sallam in which he sallallahu Sallam stated that Allah one or two other is good, Allah smart, Allah is pure, and he accepts only that
which is pure. And Allah smart Allah has commanded us as the believers to do that which he commanded the Messenger of Allah sallallahu Sallam with and then the Messenger of Allah sallallahu Sallam he told us with regards to eat. He referenced the IR where Allah smart Allah commands the believers, and he says, that eat that which is pure, and old and perform righteous deeds. So the messenger sallallahu wasallam. He following on with that Hadith, he said, allowance element is how it is recorded in Sahih. Muslim, in which the messengers that allows them describes the case and the state of a man who was upon a journey and his situation and he stayed, he was disabled, he was somebody
who was in a he was dusty, he was covered in all types of tiredness and that was visible upon him. And he was in a situation he was in great need. So let's just pause here and understand what the messengers allow Islam is describing to us. He's describing a man upon a journey. And we know from another Hadith, that somebody who is traveling there to other accepted by Allah subhanaw taala. And then the messenger sallallahu Sallam describes his state further, that he was just he was in need and so on and so forth. And we know that somebody in that situation, they are also accepted by Allah subhanho wa Taala. So, the Prophet sallallahu Sallam den says that he spreads out his hands This is
another means of the Accept
So the other one, somebody spreads out their hands in a doctor lost one or the other, and that's one of the allies and Mujib, the ever responsive of the prayers. So the messengers that allows him said he's straight out his hands towards the heavens. And he called up to the last one of the other thing, Yara BRM. He called upon Allah, by his most, these are one of the names of a lot more data, if you call upon a lot with a lot more dollar response. So everything as as the audit is being narrated, this individual is ticking the boxes, meaning is ticking, the boxes of the data is going to be accepted. He's traveling he is in a state of need, he is in a situation and he calls up for
last month either by spreading out his hands. And he calls out to a loved one or the other by one of his most beautiful names are rob the Lord. And he says, the messenger sallallahu Sallam that but his eating, his food is hot on he's drinking his hair on his clothing is around meaning that he has been nourished without which is wrong meaning his income itself was around that his income to which he purchased his food is he purchased his drinks, and he purchased his clothing. All of them were around as a result of his income being around. So the messengers of the Lord said and said, How can his daughter be accepted? How can I lost one or the other answer such a door. This is the single
greatest study that makes us reflect and appreciate the importance of Hello risk that makes us understand the significance of ensuring that our risk is halaal with Allah subhanaw taala that we acquired it through her long means and hello channels, the avenues that allows one to Allah has made for us lawful, because not doing so results in our doors not being accepted as per this hadith recorded in Sahih Muslim where the messenger sallallahu Sallam as I said before he narrated that the situation this person was in, he ticked all the boxes or the boxes were ticked meaning these two are would have been accepted his income, not been haraam has had his risk not being harmed. So, we
understand from this, the Islamic philosophy as it relates to risk as it relates to our wealth and income, as it relates to our earnings, we live in home. And this is something that each and every one of us should reflect upon and take into consideration in the order that our risk is written and we must acquire that risk that Allah has written for us, we must acquire it in a manner that is hollow and once we have acquired it is also a methodology. There is certain things that we have to do we have to spend it in a manner that is also halal and lawful, we must also spend in a part of Allah subhanaw taala through the Golden Circle, and we must also save and we must also invest as
believers in Allah subhanaw taala so this is something that inshallah tada the webinar today will focus on having a discussion on this particular topic, the ilahi to Allah Allah Karim and inshallah Allah. I'll move on and introduce the webinar, our special guest of honor chef, Dr. Bill Phillips, inshallah Allah so understand that what we'll be covering within this is investments from an Islamic perspective and also answer some of the most popular questions that we have received as it relates to Islamic finance. So insha Allah without any further ado, I will introduce chef Dr. Bill Phillips, although he is in need of any introduction, but an introduction from our part out of respect for him
is mandatory. Chef Dr. Bill Phillips is one of those scholars who I highly look up to myself. He is a globally renowned Islamic scholar. He converted to Islam in the early 70s and went on to graduate with a BA honors from the prestigious Islamic University of Medina. He obtained a master's in
in Islamic studies from the King Saud University in Riyadh, and a PhD in Islamic theology from the University of Wales in the UK in 1994. He then went on to teach for a decade or so in Islamic Studies in an Islamic High School in Riyadh, and another 18 years formally lecturing on Arabic and Islamic Studies in the American University in Dubai, Preston University in UAE and the Islamic Studies Academy in Doha, Qatar, and the knowledge International University of Riyadh and many others, while Allah at home, he has also written and translated as well as commented on over 50 published books on various topics, and I have with me some of his books here. For example, the
fundamentals of tawheed he has written a book on the
Evolution of thick the book on a solo ad, a book on autopsy. These are just some of the books that the chef has written. And I wanted him to have had the honor of reading Marshall, Guatemala. He has also presented Islamic programs on multiple Islamic TV channels from across the world. And perhaps your single greatest achievement, for which he was also listed in the 500 most influential Muslims in the world is the historic founding of the mega University from Doha, Qatar, the Islamic online university which is now known as the international Open University, which since its inception in 2010, has over half a million students 500,000 students registered from 228 different countries from
across the world while you learn home. Without any further ado, I would like to invite chef Dr. Bill Phillips on stage to say a few words in the order and inshallah we will present the questions that we have received to him one by one, following this introduction insha Allah assalamu aleikum wa rahmatullah
wa alaikum. Salaam rahmatullahi wa barakatuh. How are you chef? Masha? Allah, coffee calm. See you my Santa Monica, LA. I pleasure. All of you. Although we are seeing you every day following your sessions, live sessions with regards to the names and attributes of Allah. The most important topic within the deen of Allah and Allah Islam we have the honor of having you for yet another important topic in the deen of Allah subhanaw taala as well. So we would like to welcome you, we wanted to ask you for
some words of wisdom. inshallah, Allah is an introduction, and inshallah we'll present you some questions that we have received with regards to our topic today inshallah.
Alhamdulillah wa Salatu, was Salam ala rasulillah. Our praises due to a lot of mail as peace and blessings be on the last myth, messenger of Allah
Alhamdulillah the program is focused on entrepreneurship
Islamic alternatives to the various forms of investment that exists in the world today and which exists
in a format, which is not in keeping with this.
over the years, when Muslims rule the world or the known world, and had established the centers of learning in Spain and Syria, Iraq, etc.
Finance business was conducted according to Islamic principles
all across the world, wherever Muslims dominated
and ruled or collaborated
through trade agreements etc.
And it is only since the rise of the colonial era
time in which
And the foundations for society
from an economic perspective,
and Riba or interest became the foundation of Western finance, even though initially it wasn't,
it was hated, it was spoken against by Shakespeare and Merchant of Venice, spoken against
by a number of the leading scholars in those early centuries, however,
with Henry the Eighth, things changed. He went into loans borrowing and
made halaal what was even in Christianity.
So, the world which emerged out of that period of colonization was one dominated by Riba based finance.
And it's been an uphill battle and a challenge for Muslims to meet the
requirements and find the requirements to develop a parallel system,
we're not in a position to replace the existing system.
But at least we can develop a parallel system where we can handle our finance and banking etc, investments etc.
in a way which is pleasing to Allah.
though the West has brought women into the workforce, on a massive scale, on the basis that men and women are equal
from the Islamic perspective,
Islam welcomes women
in the fields of entrepreneurship, business, etc.
there are considering considerations that have to be kept in mind and that is the Sharia.
But whatever they're engaged in, should not
contradict or break the rules of the Sharia. That's a basic requirement I because actually men in business are supposed to maintain those rules and not break them.
there is still another aspect which we need to keep in mind as women come into the realm of business finance, entrepreneurship, banking and all these other different areas that
their primary place
is in the hole.
This we recognize islamically as an Islamic principle,
to raise the next generation, they are the critical members of the family
to raise that next generation in those early years especially.
it is not worth sacrificing that role of preparing the next generation
merely to be a secretary, you know, or
you know, a
or a hostess, or you know, these kinds of fields, which are not really needed for women, my advice would be, stay home
and take care of that next generation. If you can do business from home with hamdulillah we now have the internet, which allows women even from home to do business, of course, with family and everything else, you know, you can work at it the same way as you could if you went into an office or whatever, but the point is that we always have to weigh the pluses and the minuses, you know, the lesser of the two evils we have to keep into my in mind,
what is going to be beneficial for your family, for your community, for the oma always keep that in mind as we step forward into the 21st century
or we move beyond that the centuries to come. We should always
the Islamic values, principles, guidelines, the Sharia,
in everything that we do with regards to
business, why Camelot
the area which has to do with finance, etc. which is operating for the most part outside of the home.
So that's just a brief thought with the guards to
reminder, you know as we move forward with
As we don't want to go rushing into things, you know, as the West, I mean, the World War One World War Two that brought women into the workforce, as they had never been before in history. All of a sudden, they were they're competing with the men. And then the men were without jobs, they couldn't look after a family, then the job situations became such that both husband and wife had to work at the same time to get enough my crazy. Yes, well, we we need to do it in a way, which is in keeping with the Islamic guidelines, and what is beneficial to the society as a whole. And I encourage, especially women who want to go into the workforce, in the critical areas, like medicine,
female, you know, gynecologists in most of our world, the Muslim world, you know, as in the West, the leading but gynecologists are men. And you know, islamically, this is just a pourraient. It's disgusting. You know, what I'm sure women feel, you know, quite disheartened when they're put into these kinds of situations. Because, as a society, we have not taken care of this sensitive need, that women have. I'm not saying if you can't be a gynecologist stay home. Because there are other areas, though of similar need and similar importance. So just a few
plates of food for thought shall belong. I think it's interesting because you started off and you within your introduction, you covered one of the most important questions that we actually received. And we're going to present that question to you later on, almost at the watercooler. You've already covered it within the introduction, and that was with regards to advice for business and entrepreneurship, especially for Muslim sisters. As much as possible. I think you presented it in a very brief manner, that the advice, you know if you can do it from home, it especially with the technology, online, martial arts work a lot, this is something that provides so many opportunities
for people will learn hump, share, one of the other questions that we had, that I wanted to present to you is that, of course, we understand the importance of making sure that our risk is Hello. But the question that we received was, how do we assess that our risk is Hello, how do we make sure that it is halaal? And what to do if we find within our risk elements of harm? So what advice would you give in that in that regard? And Firstly, how do we assess it? Secondly, what advice do you give if there are elements of harm within one's risk?
Well, you know, it's a general question that you're asking
how to assess it may vary from circumstance to circumstance. In the end, it's about removing the harem.
You know, the harem is a specific precise defined area, the halaal is just wide open, you know, like Adam in the garden with Eve, they had one tree they just didn't have to eat from all the other cheese, we're hoping that's
the haraam is the one tree with a law said, don't eat Trump. So similarly,
in the in business, you know, much of business, it's how much of it, but there is, you know, that area, which is for the most part, connected with rebar, I mean, that is the area which has,
you could say, inter woven itself into all the different businesses and business arrangements and contracts and loans and all the different things that have come up, you know, in this era, the era of post colonization of the Muslim world, you know, much of it is infused with rebar.
So, we assess by determining To what degree is rebuy involved in also if you look into your business, and there are some areas which you just can't help, you know, you need a letter of credit. And the letter of credit has to go through existing banks, and those existing banks are going to deal in Riba you can't get away from it. It's there, like it or lump it, you know, but your whole business operation cannot move forward, unless you have that letter of credit.
So what do you do
in such cases, until we are able to set up sufficient Islamic banking alternatives, then we're still obliged to deal with the existing systems that are there. So Muslim scholars of Islamic banking and finance, you know, have identified the aspects, which can be utilized, minimizing at the same time, the issue of rebar, where rebar remains, of course, if any profit is due to you, you can't take it, it can't be taken. If it is interwoven into the profits that you are getting, then you have to work out the percentage and remove that percentage from your profits. What to do with it, people often ask, Well, you know, as was commonly said, by scholars that I've studied under etc, they they
basically advise, okay, use it for
something which is not considered to be
you could say,
well looked at, you know, use it for lonely things. And the example they usually gave was, you know, buying toilet paper for the toilet for the toilets of the masjid. Okay, you know, that's a kind of a low
thing, or buying ships, ships, you know, slippers for wudu areas for to go and make people make wudu or to go use the bathrooms or whatever, you know, so things of that nature now, which are not highly looked on and, and you could say,
I guess it's difficult to actually put it in words, but I think you'll get the idea what I mean, you know, it's just the the lowly things, keep it there, don't put it up on things that people will be proud of, and promoting and everything else. Of course, not gonna fast ship, I think, once again, that was summarized perfectly. So if if making sure we didn't once risk that there is no elements of rebar, that's the one thing, the major thing to look out for the most severe matter that is prohibited within when it comes to financial transactions. And if there is any elements of that, then to completely dis carded, disregarded, and do not expect any type of reward for doing so even
if it is spent on charitable
activities, but make sure that they're not for those that are regarded virtuous or honorable. And I think the shift clarify that perfectly shift. One other point before you switch to the next
that we have to keep in mind because there are other areas, you know, in Islamic
business dealings, which also are forbidden. You know, Riba was the big thing. Yeah, but there are other things which come into business in general, in that
marketing today, you know, to a large degree is built on deception. Yes, you deceive your customers, you get them to buy, what they didn't necessarily want, but you created in them a desire for it, and what you give them is not what you show them.
So, this area, this area of deception, you know, this area has to also go, that what you show is what it is, you are known for your honesty and your dealings. So, you know, when they teach the course in marketing, the big professor will come in and say Normally, you know, do you know, who is the best salesman
and the students will be well, best salesmen. Maybe this one guy but not bad salesman, is the one who is able to sell sand to the desert, Arab in his tent, right sitting and living in SAP. You can sell him Sam, you are the best salesman. Oh, actually, usually they say selling ice
To an Eskimo.
Right? I put it in terms of sad that because that's our world, but more so than ice and Eskimos, right. But the idea is that you obviously for you to get an Eskimo to buy ice from you. He's got a house, his igloo is made from ice. You know, everything is furnishings, everything inside to be the glue is all ice blocks, and you're gonna sell him a piece of ice for you to be able to sell him that piece of ice, you have to deceive him, you have to make him think he's getting something that he needs. Not so that is deception. So that all that whole area of advertisement and promotion, which is based on deception, you have to throw that out the door. We don't have that option.
Of course, and also in terms of those who are building things.
Now, like cars, for example, when cars were built back in the early 1900s, those cars were built early 19 hundred's you know, 1920 1930 1940 1950 those cars of that era, they lasted a lifetime.
They lasted beyond that lifetime, you can go to Cuba, or have you ever seen those pictures of Cuba, where they have cars that are from the 50s and the 40s. But they're still driving around, the people are making the parts for it and etc. They're still using them till today, you know, those were well built cars. later on. Another concept came in the concept of built in obsolescence. Because they, they saw it was much better for you to build a cheaper car, which is not that well built. And the car parts break down. So you have to supply you know, spare parts to the to the owner, etc. And in fact, they found that they make most of their money from the spare parts. The actual car is only the
worm on the hook of the fisherman, you know the fisherman is puts his hook in the water. If you put the hook by itself, no fish is gonna bite that hook. So he puts a worm on top of it. Right? So that car that you buy is like the worm. You buy that car and they tell you Oh, you have this warranty and that warranty. But you know all of these warranties are carefully calculate so that the warranty is good for two years for this item. Well, this thing is made in such a way that after two years we'll start breaking down.
Another one is for three years. One is only for one year, like this. And this is a trap. So you're deliberately cheating people. This is cheating. And the problem is Arsalan said man rashanna paleis Amina, you know so cheating. deception is one thing cheating in this way is another thing. So we have to go back to the earlier principles as promised I Solomon said in the lie ahead, women are headed comida Amira, Hamelin Justina Allah loves from each and every one of you, whenever you do anything, whenever you make anything, you do it to the best of your ability to do it to the best of your ability. So it's high quality, you know, as high as you can get it the best that you can put
out there. So, these are just some additional general principles, which cover a variety of areas of business dealings, you know, which have, you know, become notorious in our time, as means of cheating the customers, you know, deceiving them, exploiting them and abusing them. Yes, just a fair shake. I think that's that's very important as well, of course, staying away from rebar staying away from speculation and other things are lost, Matata has prohibited in the Quran, they are also prohibited to trade in as well. And also this principle that you mentioned with regard to deception. This is something that the Prophet sallallahu Sallam highly, highly refuted in his time when he
visited the marketplace, and he saw these activities taking place. And you mentioned the Hadith that you must not work a lot highlighted. And I think one of the key points that we have to keep in mind is that of course they will be in in the heat as well with regards to labor.
profit or loss of allowance knows that there will come a time when it's dust will will reach you. So in these times we have to remember that no matter what we do, no matter how much we strive, there may be issues within our risk that are questionable. And this is why we have within our Deen Zakat and sadaqah that we give for the sake of Allah smart Allah and inshallah Allah that acts as a purifier, it purifies our wealth. And on that nutshell, we have a question with regards to as a God as well. And that is with regards to where is best to pay one's zakat. Obviously, we have eight different categories that allow us what are the highlights within the Quran? So the question is that
if somebody had to pick one particular category, let's suppose they have someone in mind, a relative, or, or whatever have you that they wish to give there? is a cartoon, is this permissible? And if so, where is best? What category? Would you recommend most? When it comes to giving us a condo? Perhaps? Is it better to give to an institution? And if so, is any recommendations that you make in Sharla?
In terms of Zakah, you know,
Allah gave us a range.
And they he didn't say, this one first. And if you can't do this one, then you go on to the next one. He gave us
a group, you know, I and those related to that group, it's open to you to choose what you feel is most beneficial, because again, the idea, you know, as Rob said, Solomon said, head on as unfair homeliness, the best of people are those who are most beneficial to people. So you choose the areas, which, given your circumstance, you're in Syria, you know, what's happening there? You're in Afghanistan, what's happening there, we are in, you know,
east, China, with the Uyghurs what's happening there, you know, obviously, your as a car, you're gonna pay as the car according to the needs of your circumstance, you know, and maybe even some people ask, can we even pay the car? in another country? Yeah, we have relatives in another country, and people that are much more needy than the people where we were, if people are doing well here, you know, so yes, you can, you're not obliged to pay, there's a car in the place that you are, although it's preferable normally. Normally, you know, with all things being equal, everything else equal, then it's better to give it in the place where you earn it, you know, we have earned that
money, you've earned it from that community, that society, it's better to give this a cab back to that society, because it's that society that helped you gain that amount that you were able to now give us a car with. So these are the types of considerations that we need to keep in mind, when looking to give the chi terms of organizations. Now, it's the same thing. In most countries, etc. You know, there will be some organizations which are set up, and they are in touch with the people that are trustworthy people, then it's easier just to give it to them, you know, let them handle because that's what was happening in the province asylums day anyway. And in the early generations,
you know, it's not everybody going out for himself, I'm going to try to find a place to give psychiatrists No, no, they gave it to the cattle man, you know, the central Treasury, you know, of the middle mouse, right? The central Treasury where it could be received and we distributed, you know, who people there had the responsibility of knowing where the weaknesses are in the society, the people who are most needy, etc, etc, you know, they made it their job, and also merited to give it to them, rather than you give it to somebody who really doesn't need it, as others may need it. Yeah. Of course, you mentioned you mentioned the beta model. They would ensure at that time in the
time of the profits and allow salamander companions, that there's a God is then distributed to those who are eligible for it from the categories that are lost, not Allah mentions in silver October, the eight categories. And this is something I think the question was highlighting that how do we ensure that the court is distributed to all of these eight categories our last mattala mentions, think your advice once again, share is very, very beneficial, and share one of the questions that we received and not
question that we received is, of course, people nowadays they have a, they have the working, they have an income, there's spending their budgets and so on and so forth. And as a result, they have savings. So questions they are they're asking is that, of course, we know that we cannot keep our savings in an interest bearing account. Because of course, rebar is prohibited. In fact, a lot of wages water pointed a lot more dollars coasted. So what do we do as Muslims with regards to our savings? And also from an economic perspective, we know that savings is a leakage in the circular flow of income. So the question is with regards to what we can do with the leftover savings, because
if you just hold on to it, it gets eroded away, but the value of it by inflation? So the question is, in regards to investments from an Islamic perspective today, what can we do with the surplus that we have? And what can we do in order to invest it? Is there any advice that you can give with regards to that inshallah, to Allah, the, for the younger people especially? Well, in I would say that,
in all the societies,
there will be
businesses being set up, businesses falling down, businesses that need shoring up, you know, this will exist in the society. So it's a matter of you finding partners, people who you can partner with, who are trustworthy, etc, and invest your money in the business, which is going to help the community grow, not necessarily the business that's going to get you the most money, the most returns on your money, because, of course, this is what business people do, you know, you put your money in the location where the greatest returns come from, you know, because your mind is thinking, you know, profits, how, how can I maximize my profits, but as a Muslim business person,
businessperson, you have to think beyond that, you know, out of the box, we got to get out of that box, that box, which says it's just about profits, if you can't make big profits don't bother better you sit on the money at home? No, we have to think in terms of the benefit to the society, there are so many businesses, which need to be in place in our communities, in order to help build those communities, to grow those communities, to make them example, examples to the greater communities that they exist with it,
we should try to be a part of that communal growth, because as far as Solomon said, they are the largest Gema, you know, laws hand of support is on the community that is together, you know, you should try to invest in such a way that you bring people together, as opposed to you and somebody else just reading off on your own. No, you know, we all the time, we should have the community at the back of our minds.
Because when we are able to benefit the community as a whole, you know, that puts far more Baraka or blessings from Allah in the wealth that we have.
Is our fair share. I think one of the questions that's attached to the question with regards to investments is, obviously, the typical understanding people have when it comes to investments is with regards to shares and stocks. So the quite one of the questions that we've received is with regards to that, what are your thoughts on that? Is that something that you advocate or are you
advocating that we as Muslims should develop our own? You know, as you mentioned, with regards to the community, we should establish our own institutions, our own businesses, and develop them and make it a means for investments and returns on investments. So one of the questions in regards to that, so wanted to hear your thoughts with regards to that inshallah.
Well, in terms of buying, you know, shares in companies as a general principle, it's halaal, as long as rebuy is not directly involved, in order to buy in to partner with another business person or other business people and share in the profits of that business is perfectly valid as a as a basic principle. However,
the problem that comes in
Partnering is oftentimes
these unless the goals and the business itself is carefully crafted, in order to ensure that it is islamically correct, then there is some danger in in those types of arrangements that people make with the jet with the overall society where you're living as a Muslim community within a non Muslim society, non Muslims are involved in it, you know, of course, they don't have the same considerations. So
it's better to try to stay within the bounds of the community, in, in, when we're stepping into the field of investments, you know, to end buying shares, buying shares in known
community businesses better than businesses outside of the community, because once you step outside of the community, then the rebar issue, you know, is always going to play you know, so as much as you can stay within, it's better to stay with it. But where you have no other options, but to step out, then you know, you have to be very careful, you make your, your your agreements, clear that you will not deal with this aspect or that aspect, etc, when going into business with these other business entities.
And on that note, you mentioned within and with an outside of the community aspect, is there any advice that you can give for those within, for instance, Islamic Finance, Islamic banking, any advice that you can give, for example, to institutions and organizations like taqwa invest, when it comes to solving this particular problem as it relates to investments and making sure they are compliant with the Sharia?
Well, I think those of you that are involved in that level of operation, you know, I spent, especially in the early stages, my advice would be, to try as much as possible to network with other who have gone there before us, in order to learn from their mistakes. And in order to link up with, with those who can guide us and show us the way forward, you know, to benefit from those who preceded us, in these fields, these areas. So, it's, it's, it's really more general, you know, in terms of advice here, but
I think the key word is networking, you know, that we build as big and as wide a network as possible, with other Islamic institutions of a similar mind,
with similar goals, you know, and as much as possible, bring those institutions together, you know, rather than you're operating at a distance, come together, you know, if it's possible to join two and make one, that two together now is going to be much stronger than to separate, though you are working with each other and your friends, etc.
But you're not going to be the same, the strength won't be there, as if you are now one.
The finances that will be available for you to invest with is now doubled. You know, you're in a far stronger position to make demands, you know, then you would be if you were just individually trying for yourself, they're trying for themselves, and yeah, you're in contact with each other and you do share things, but you know, we should be looking to come together rather than looking to go on our own.
that's interesting shape because it sort of picks up on a theme from the seat of the Prophet of Allah allows along whereby he himself, we see him networking with people when it comes to giving Dawa and so on and so forth. to such an extent that it just became a means for him to make a draw and open the door for
Medina whether people invited him in what he learned how that came about as a result of the Prophet of Allah sallallahu Sallam and his networking and him working with people cooperating upon piety and taqwa Allah.
Hi, I'm Chef, I've been involved in Islamic finance for a number of years. Ever since I graduated with Dr. Hunt, I began lecturing in the university on Islamic Finance, and then began working with a number of key institutions as a relates to Islamic finance. And I've good friends across the world within Islamic banking as well. And one of the most important questions, and the ones that we always get asked is with regards to the ruling on mortgages, conventional mortgages.
You know, there is some type of a debate with regards to that. So we wanted to ask you that, and also any alternatives and solutions that you can recommend with regards to homeownership for Muslims, because, of course, sometimes Islamic banking may not be easily accessible in different parts of the world. So what advice would you give? What alternatives and solutions do you suggest? And what is the ruling on mortgages in short order?
Well, for the most part, you know, mortgages, as we know them in the West are haraam. Yeah, they're built on interest. arrangements. Yeah, that's, that's just that's at the root of it all. And people, you know, sell and buy mortgages, you know, off other people's mortgages. And it's just a
confused world of mortgages, you know, second mortgages, third mortgages.
But it's just rebar on top of rebar.
So, in general mortgages, as we know them in the West, are Haram. Now, Islamic banks have come up with some alternatives, which
are, some of them are so close to the mortgage, I wouldn't say what's the difference, some of them are farther away, but then they are accused of charging more, you know, because because they're trying to get away from the interest situation. So they, you know, have to go around this way. And around that way, and from the back and the top and,
you know, involves more investments and payments. And so in the end, people look at this, they say, but, you know, the river bank for the same mortgage, now, they're only charging this much, are you charging almost twice what they're charging?
And what do you say to that, you know, well, bottom line is,
Islamic banks, in trying to do the right thing,
are going to be in a number of these kinds of dealings, more expensive than conventional backs. That's something you can escape. At this stage. When Islamic banking reaches its zenith, when it's on top,
playing the fake the field, you know, as an equal to Western banking, now you have a different circumstance where you can compete with them on the same ground, and you can out compete them. Because what Islam has to offer, you know, is is going to be a better deal. Anyhow. So, we have to understand that in the early stages, which is where we are right now, on the, you know, a couple of decades of Islamic banking have, you know, preceded us,
as solutions have been worked out, they're going to be more costly. And we have to understand, these people have guaranteed us that the interest is not there.
But it costs you more.
We're not denying that it is gonna cost you more, but what do you want something that costs you more, but it's Riba free and you can pray and know that your prayers will be answered, or you want to go to that conventional bank, get less get it cheaper, and know that your prayers are not going to be answered. No, that's your choice. No, and that is the reality at this time. Another way, we have to educate the community to understand the challenges that Islamic financial institutions are faced with, which caused them sometimes to provide products, you know, financial products, which would or could be more expensive than the river based financial investment corporations. So that's
just a reality that we
have to live with. But now,
I saw something a long time ago
which helped people get homes, and has been helping people since then, over the last 30 years, I remember the first housing cooperative was set up
where each member, they they have a contract, which they agree on, each person is going to put in $1,000 or $10,000. Every month, each person
when the, they draw straws to determine who gets the first house, who gets the second house who gets the third house, when the money has reached that point, you can buy the house, okay, so
they've put in a put in, then the person whose straw was pulled as number one, he gets to get his house, but the house remains the property of the cooperative, not that individual, he doesn't become the property of the individual until all the people who invested I've gotten their houses at that time, because they have to keep paying, you know, if it is that when you your your strikes both first and you know, you get the first house and you tell everybody else, my salamah
everybody else is left hanging there, I wasn't Billa kiddo. So to protect us from somebody doing that no matter what Olds they met, make, you know, while law he
you know it because we unfortunately know Muslims, when human beings, you know, when sometimes when you see a way out an easy way out, you know, you take it, you say stop for a lot, taking it. But you know, it's not islamically it's not. So we need to put in place some assurances, to ensure that everybody gets their house. And it has worked. I've seen it work in Toronto, I've heard of it working in Trinidad, South America, I've heard seen, it's happened in other parts of the world where people decide because what is required is again, community come together.
You know, together, we can do it individually, we can't. Individually we're faced with, with the mortgage, and the rebar and everything else that comes along with it, you know, there's no way to escape it. So come together. And that coming together, it's just it's a matter of trust, and commitment, and patience.
Indeed, and it can be done. Indeed, and it can definitely be done share her with Lila. And as you mentioned that, you know, the conventional banking industry is in hundreds and hundreds of years, it's been around for centuries. Whereas Islamic banking, as it currently exists in this modern form, is only been around for a couple of decades or so. And it is still in the face of of development, we'll learn how we have all our modern scholars, they're working hard in terms of providing solutions and alternatives. However, there are costs attached to it. And I have personal experience with one of the organizations here in the United Kingdom, where I'm from, that Marshall, Guatemala
managed to do provide a solution based upon the model that you mentioned as well, cooperatives. However, when the financial crisis which was a direct result of, you know, conventional mortgages, subprime lending, took place, the funding basically went out. So since 2008, that project has come to an end. But prior to that, Mashallah, there was
options, there were alternatives, community funding was being provided. Within the Muslims. This was a Muslim organization that was providing homeowner ships, and much of its work ally was highly praised by scholars, and there were no issues with regards to affordability with regards to other criticisms that sometimes Islamic banks receive. So we know that it can be done. But it requires, as you mentioned, coming together because that was the key point at that moment in time that the organization or the project itself did not have the level of support that it needed from the community share, you know, when it comes to
with regards to homeownership with regards to car financing, for instance, with regards to investments, whatever have you, there's always new issues that are coming up within the world of finance, right.
And obviously, you need to be in touch with the scholars and to be
in touch with the scholars, you need to be seeking knowledge. So one of the questions we have is with regards to seeking knowledge seeking Islamic knowledge, what the question is from a perspective of risk that, how do we make sure that we seeks knowledge, which requires taking time out, and perhaps it requires traveling, perhaps it requires sitting with the llama, and also earn risk, as they say, right? So how do we strike a balance between seeking Islamic knowledge and also earning a livelihood? Because when we are working full time, for instance, we don't have time and if we are going out and seeking knowledge, we don't have a livelihood. So how does one strike a balance? What
advice would you give in regards to this inshallah
online study, you know, this is, you know, the online mode gives us the opportunity to
gain knowledge without having to be in a classroom. And normally to go seeking go going to seek knowledge, you have to pack up, go to another country, or you have to, you know, go to a classroom, in a building, university, whatever, or Institute or whatever, you have to physically be there. So it means you can't do anything else in that, you know, period, that period of time that is allotted to that study. Also, it's very difficult for people that they have evening studies, you know, which maybe takes forever, or when or whatever, but their online study, I mean, this was one of the reasons why I set up the the online university because I know, so many people wanted to get access
to basic Islamic knowledge. And they couldn't do as I did, when I became a Muslim, within a year after I became a Muslim, I was in Medina, studying, you know, that took me on another path altogether. You know,
right, from the very beginning, most people don't have that opportunity. They woken up to Islam, you know, they're living a regular life. And then they realize, Oh, you know, there's something missing here, there's a big, you know, vacuum that needs to be filled with Islamic Islamic knowledge, you know, but what to do in England, you know, where do I go, okay, you know, I'm getting some knowledge with the foot buzz, I'm getting some classes here or there. But you know, without consistency, a lot of these efforts, it'll go in vain, you do it for a while, and you stop, and then you know, but if you if you are serious about getting the knowledge, then the online option is a very valid and
rigorous option. It does require, you know, efforts like you would give in a regular University, because as long as University, you know, which is online is legitimate, you know, they're not just selling degrees, you know, you just pay so much money, and, you know, and you sign up and whatever, after some time, you're gonna get a certificate, no, it's real study covering real material, you know, you have access to scholars, you have access to, to teachers, you have access to community studies, all these kinds of things that they're, you know, that can provide for you the means, and in fact, I would venture to say that most of the students
who are with us from the west from the US from Canada, you know, from the UK,
most of the students are already working, and they're doing this while they're working. Or while they're studying one degree, they're doing this a lot with them.
doing two degrees at the same time.
depends on the amount of time person has, etc. But you know, this is a way for, you know, all the housewives Who said I wish my husband went off he was able to go off and study I, you know, I wish I could do the same and you know, there's that wish. Well, it's possible. Yeah, we have more than 50% of our students are women martial. They have embraced online study in a big way. Given the opportunities, not surprised martial arts. And shake is brilliant because I was actually speaking to your game from the International Open University. Just yesterday. Your son was in the meeting is almost out of watercolor. And I was given a
being presented with some of the updates with regards to international university and it was truly
an amazing, you know, it was a, I was actually happy to see someone's developments taking place in the new updates. For example, the recent announcement with regards to the PhD opportunities as well, with the international Open University, I think these are just something that gives so many people options to carry on seeking knowledge, Islamic knowledge and also earn a livelihood, as you mentioned, and strike that balance, what you learn and share one of the main questions and we are reaching towards the end of our session I'm aware of the time So first and foremost Jazakallah fer for your time, really appreciate it is truly an honor for me to be in this gathering with yourself
martial artwork a lot. And as I always say, this COVID-19 is has been, to some extent a blessing in disguise, that is allowed us to hold so many of these online conferences with people and respected scholars, who we otherwise would have found it very difficult to be in contact with a normal body. So one of the questions shared the final question for this evening and insha Allah will be hosting many more of of these sessions to answer so many questions that we receive and what like we have received so many questions, we just for this session, but we have to be very selective and make sure that the conversation flows for the time that we have allocated and the time that she has given us
much of a particular shape. The final question for this evening is with regards to risk and how do we increase our risk? What advice do can you give? Of course we know so many out of the Quran indicate towards there's so many a Hadith of the Prophet sallallahu Sallam point towards this but if you have to give one advice from the bar so so much advice that has been given what would you highlight and what would you pick and share with us inshallah Allah to increase our risk from Allah subhanaw taala?
Well, the one
thing that I like to stress in many of the programs that I'm
presenting to Muslims from different parts of the world is
the revival of the Sunnah
the prophets I send them it said that whoever revives the son of mine which has died out,
he or she will get the reward of everyone who does that. So
tell me to multi ama without decreasing their rewards in any way.
This is the promise.
This is the blessing which comes from reviving the Sunnah of Rasulullah saw salah and the sooner which is directly related to risk and increasing risk is sujood a shocker
to June a shocker. And most people in many parts of the Muslim world they unfortunately don't even know what it is. I've been to many places
you know, from Mindanao, Philippines, South Philippines, to Guyana, South America, you know, from an area in places in between and I have tried to revive this soon I've made it a you know, my my
you can say committed outcome my commitment to reviving at least this much of the sooner you know I there's plenty that needs to be revived but I've just grabbed on to this one because this one I saw so many benefits that come from so I would ask people in the in the various communities that I visited etc. You know, who did
so do the sugar today?
Oh hence, Masjid. 800 people 1000 people
one or two hands come up.
Who did this week
123 and schema this month? This year? I reality is that people were not doing it. Period. Yeah, they will watch it on a football game. You know, they sees me DJ Danny scores and he goes down into June. Yes Hi Paul. Mashallah, Mashallah.
Okay. The point is that he is reviving the Sunnah
His practice you cheering him on? Well, you cheered him on. But the more important thing is that you do what he does. Because this is what the process allows us to do. This was so lamotta you know, Sahaba related that whenever anything good would come to promise manesar salam, firstly thing he did was to do the sugar, you know, or if some Bhalla some calamity has been lifted a lot lifted off you to do the sugar thank Allah for it. So you know, so Judas sugar again, let me just clarify that you know, a lot of people that have a lot of other issues rules, so do soccer. What if you don't know where they don't have to worry about the tumbler? You don't have to face the tumbler? What about the
Moodle? If you have to know you don't have to have Voodoo.
Women will ask Can we do it in our menses? Yes.
Do you have to wear hijab? No, no, no, you don't have to. Manually I you know, of course, between navel and knee you gotta come.
If you just have a T shirt on or whatever, you don't have to go put a throw button or no, no, you can just go down and your T shirt and loose pants etc Korean naval to any. So it's so simple. It's just do it. Just go ahead and do it get down there. So Hannah, Rob Bell
repeated and thank Allah for that particular blessing. And of course, I'm already told us line checker to if you're thankful that Xena Kumar will increase you, it is there is when we increase it That's the promise of Allah in the Quran. And the grace I sell them, you know, promised it there in the sooner we
we should try to bring this back alive in our lives. And this is my most
frequently offered solution. The people come to me I'm depressed, you know, I am suffering from you know, this depression and this, you know, sadness and this. I tell them the best thing to do.
So Judas sugar
so Judas sugar, well, but you know, so Judas sugar, that's what you need to do, you're depressed when you're depressed, what's happening, you feel that everything has gone bad.
Everything is no good in your life anymore. You know, you'll feel just
at the end of your rope.
Get down there next June and find the good in your life. Today, yesterday, this week, the month it's there, you just forgotten about your depression has caused you to be unable to recognize it. Yeah. So, you know, this is this lifts that that that veil, you know, that cloudy, dark circumstance that from your shoulders from your mind, it unveils removes, you know, and gets you back into play. So, so do the shocker. You know is to me, one of your best ways of increasing your risk. revive it as a Sunnah. And everybody you teach to revive it, you know you're getting the reward. And it's coming in ways you would least expect it
was a fair shift. And I know that I have seen and heard from you many times speaking about such that as sugar and reviving the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allah with regards to prostrating Allah azzawajal thanking him being grateful to him upon receiving a blessing or upon a calamity being lifted and so on and so forth. And you know, indeed in reality, we can never thank the last one or the other as he deserves to be thanked, but this is just one of those efforts that we can do and inshallah Allah through this, we will revive the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allah sallallahu Sallam as well. And each time she you say it, there is a new dimension and inshallah Allah even today there
was a new dimension in this message with regards to social sugar with regards to the frustration of thankfulness to Allah subhanaw taala. And we talked a lot of one or the other for all the blessings that he has bestowed upon us, when he lied. And as a messenger of Allah sallallahu Sallam said, He who does not thank the people does not thank Allah one or the other. So we'd like to take this special moment to thank you chef, for your time and your knowledge and wisdom for sharing with us your insights with regards to risk with regards to Islamic investments, Islamic Finance, and insha. Allah will be having many more sessions in the future as well. Big right the other and we highly
recommend that you check out the books authored by the chef as I showed you before some of the books Mashallah chef has to know a few
The books along robotic, published and to check out the international Open University, the University that the chef launched over 10 years ago, martial arts watercolor has so much resources for seeking knowledge and benefiting from other works from the sheer martial arts watercolor. And on that note once again shared Thank you and good luck here. I'd like you to share with us our As a conclusion and inshallah we will hand it over to our team members from taqwa, invest for the closing Jazakallah fellow Salam aleikum. Wa Alaikum Salam as to why Ricardo Subhana Coloma Ambika shadow Allah, Allah Allah and stomp Federica on a to a Lake
Dr. Eva, I will hand it over to you. And we will conclude the session. Once again a special thanks to the chef and a special thanks to the viewers and the audience. And a special thanks to Taco and West. This is your brother in Islam of mine, Abdullah Malik was Salam Alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh.
Honor was behind us to hold Dr. Bill Phillips for such an informative session. I would like to thank him for enlightening us on different concepts of Islamic finance. We really appreciate your advice and guidance and thank you and your team as well, who made this event possible on the fine West platform. I would also like to thank Mr. Smart Malik for moderating this webinar. Moreover, I'm also grateful to Team Becca in West whose efforts were remarkable for planning the webinar. I want to especially thank for our shame Monahan and sarafan for making sure this event runs smoothly does nothing