Channel: Ahmed Deedat
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We have pleasure to have with us, one of the renowned Muslim scholars of the world, Mr. Mr. Dark city that has
traveled extensively all over the world. And most of his travels, he has had very open and very candid debates on Islam and Christianity with one of the some of the leading scholars of the Western world. Mr. de garde is the president of the International Islamic Propagation center in Durban, South Africa. He has published a number of books, his cases on Islam and Christianity are almost a household affair, all over the Muslim world. For his dedicated service, and his
dedication to Islam. He has been awarded King Faisal international award in appreciation of his services. Mr. diva, today is going to talk to us and help our viewers to appreciate the very wide exposure he had in the Western world. Various talks about Islam and Christianity.
I would request Mr. de dar, to enlighten us in the light of the fact that Islam represents a continuation and a culmination of the most authentic religion in the world. What is the central message that Islam gives to us, which distinguishes is this religion, compared to other religions, for the present day, mankind, where we find very divisive forces in the world where we find that, although we are talking of technological innovation, we are talking of great achievements of mankind. Yet when it comes to the Amity and peace among various societies and various religions. I think we are today living in the worst of the world. And Islam has a message for the present devil
and this is where I will request the doc to enlighten us with his views.
Islam is a universal religion.
And it has certain definite relationship
with the previous religions, Semitic religions, Judaism and Christianity. And as such, Islam addresses them that this honor and the privilege Allah gave us of being the highest and the best of people.
As Allah says, in his holy book is a school from higher education, that you are the list of people evolved for mankind, not for yourself, but for mankind. What makes us the best of people? Is it because we are sets of guns as it buzzes, new society?
Do some savvy Cujo. batata muscle man do what makes us to be the best of people. Allah says, Muna bill Mowgli. If you are somehow Nonnenmacher, because you enjoy what is right. And you forbid, that is what makes you the best of people. If you are doing that. Then as soon as this honor is being bestowed upon us, we were to share this honor with the rest of mankind,
beginning with the Jews and the Christians because they were in history, religious history of mankind. They were the closest to Islam, and they had a common origin and father Abraham.
So Allah tala casas Willow armineh Ahlul kitabi, Lacan
that is the People of the Book meaning the Jews and the Christians. If they hearkened to this message,
the message of the Quran, it will be better for them.
Melvin Amina, that among them, there are sincere people,
faithful people. among the Jews in the Christian Allah says, there are good people lazzaro Mufasa goon, but the majority of them are perverted transgressors. Now we wait to search them out, seek them out and share this honor and this privilege. And as such, it is a continuation Islam is not a new religion. In the sense something just dropped out of heaven, but it's a continuation. Then we study the teaching of others masala surah. The teaching of her
Salah salam, and that of the Holy Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu Sallam that in the fundamentals of the teachings of these three personalities I've named, there is not an iota of difference.
Not one one difference in the fundamentals. For example, the first commandment, visit our kalama as given by Alberto de musala, Salah in Hebrew,
it says, Shema Yisrael Adonai eloheinu Adonai
is translated means, Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one
son 1300 years after that Musa Salam
has an ISA Islam. He comes on the scene and a learned man of the Jews described as a scribe in alert them in the Gospel of St. Mark,
chapter 12, verse 29, he comes with Jesus as the Salah salam, and it says master in the Hebrew language Rabbi Kamala Messiah, what commandment is the first of all? Meaning what is the first Shahada? What is it, so has it easily Salaam in German Jews, he retreats what was given by Mr. De sala 1300 years before in the Hebrew language, he said, Shama is fine.
Here, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one some 600 years after Jesus, the Holy Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu Sallam in Medina.
He was confronted by a deputation from nigera Christian deputation.
They had heard that an Arab now is claiming to be in contact with the spiritual world is claiming to be a prophet. So they came to cross examine him, they will house in the Mazda NaVi for three days and almost three nights they had a dialogue. And during the course of the dialogue, the spokesman for the Christian poses the question said, All right, all right, not so Mohammed, what is your concept of God? And Avi Karim sallallahu Sallam is made to say, Allahu Ahad, say is Allah The one and only, he said, I had one and only use Allah Sam said, which means one and only knew Salah Sam said, it means one and only.
The only difference between these three is the pronunciation. If we write in Arabic, Alif ha, da. And if you want to make it,
you just put on the heart, you put a dot that is in the calligraphic writing, but in the sense in the meaning there is not an iota of difference, that he is the one and only God that there is. As such, we want them all to get together, come to us in this brotherhood fellowship of faith.
We find today that in the Muslim world, there is a tremendous resurgence of Islam. And in this resurgence, it is not just a sort of a effervescent type of a movement, it is trying to find a direction to give a new message to the modern world, a message not only in the field of how to read your life and the individual, but also how to lead a life in the economic field in a particular field in the social field. How do you view this resurgence that is now underway in the Muslim world? You see, the spirit is there, among Muslims all over the world, I can see the younger generation, they want to do something, you know whether in the economic field in the political field, in the
educational field in the scientific field, everybody wants to get ahead. But also in the religious field. The enthusiasm is there. But what is lacking?
What I can say is that we don't know how, how do you speak to the Hindu? How do you speak to the Jew? How do you speak to the Christian? How do you speak to the aces the agnostic
say to me, Allah, Allah gives us a clue
how to uproot all these forces, all these ideologies in this verse directed to Jews and Christians. Allah says cool. pilgrim yas Nikita Hooper book parlo
Elad Kalimantan, Saba in vain and avena that we come to common terms as between us and you, let us get onto a common platform.
Now, this idea of getting onto a common platform, there is no better way
to approach any community whether they be communist, whether they be Hindus or atheists or Jews are Christian wherever they are, let us find common grounds.
But what has been missing is that for the past 1000 years or more, we have stopped talking. And because we stopped talking in those preaching, we lost the art.
We lost the art in the early beginnings, it was not necessary because Allah tala he blessed the Muslims, you know so abundantly that they spread out throughout the world and they became masters of the known world.
But now when they became muscles of the whole world, they didn't preach they stop preaching select men, you can see allies blessed us. If you want to be one of us, you're welcome. But he wouldn't go out of his way to deliver the message. Then came the turn of the European, the Westerner with the superior gun power. He discovered from the Chinese, they were using this gunpowder for for trackers, sparklers, you know, for fun. And the Westerner discovered this power of the gunpowder and use the barrel, and he knew how to read it. And with that, he not helping other people all over the world. That's when they've conquered Indonesia, handful of them, a handful of them. Portuguese, they catch
a part of this territory, our country, a handful of friends with the same then the rest was taken over by a handful of Britishers because they had done power. And they ruled us in Portuguese Muslim de rudess for 500 years. In Indonesia, they ruled us for 300 years, and in the subcontinent 150 years. So during that period, also we can talk to them, they will master the rulers. Now once we got our freedom, I think something like more than 50 independent Muslim states exist in the world today. But now we don't know how to talk because we lost the art of talking. But if you go back to the Quran, Allah, Allah gives you directives how to do the job. He says in the Holy Quran, Eros, I
believe that the Cabal Hekmati invite all to the reserve dialogue with wisdom. Well, not as Adele has an authentic, beautiful teaching,
ability, awesome. And reason, wisdom is that our best and most gracious,
maybe we'll find this wisdom
is that one of the title of the book of wisdom from Al Hakim,
he's giving you examples after examples. The Muslim is not reading the book. We rattle it off, memorize it, we recite it beautifully. We put people into ecstasy. But what we are reading the whole Muslim world as a whole seems to be you know,
better barest of this knowledge of what Allah is trying to tell you is the sound, the music sabab that we are reading for, what we have to do is to go back to the book, and allow Allah Baraka to speak to us, because he's speaking to you and tuning into every possible industry, allow him to speak to you that he's talking to you. And what does he say. And if you follow that, there is no looking back to reopen these channels of communication, which, as you rightly said, have broken down because of that long period of domination by Western powers. Today, as as we all know, this is a world of
what they call the technological evolution. And what is needed is that if we were to open these channels in the field of technological collaboration,
this will be perhaps the route for us to bring about much more closer coordination, greater communication, how do you think we'll be we can be open this channel in the field of technological communication were defined, as is a common phenomenon that today in the 20th 20th century was a fragment of the 20th century and at the federal level, 21st century, we appear to be now under the imperialism as a College of Technology. And the transfer of technology is one of the greatest barriers in bringing together not only the religions, but also the media societies. How do you think we as Muslims, can bring about this transfer of technology, but already, we have got some very
bright young people who are now learning all this new knowledge and technique and they're also making contribution to the Western world wherever they are working? How can we have it transferred, without this elastic attitude that is now prevalent in the world? You see with this technology, technology is not a religion. It is everybody's property. As an idea, Kareem sallallahu sallam, he said, knowledge is the birthright of the faithful. He takes it wherever he finds it, even from the hypocrite. It's your property. Then again, he said, the knowledge is the street camera of the desert.
Grab it wherever you find it. So Islam does not prohibit us from getting this new technology knowledge. But at the same time with this technology and knowledge with this material benefits goes cultural invasion takes place religious invasion takes place in the guise of wanting to help you economically they want to plant in the Western world plant in the dirt or gnomes. They're trying to subvert our people into thinking as they are thinking behavior as they believe. So we have to be on guard with regards to that. Then there is this whole world of Islam is now being open out. Indonesia is open. Bangladesh is open Pakistan is open to Qatar.
this freedom of religion, Mashallah freedom of religion. But this is a one way vision.
See from the west, there are the
facts here from the Times magazine
that they are in the world today 70,000 Crusaders.
These are the major hits of Christianity. I'm not talking about priests, pastors or ministers of the church, basement of the church. No, no, they can be hundreds of 1000s of those. But there are 70,000. Crusaders, would you say the majority of Christianity
among the 60,000 70,000 is a 60% of the American.
There are 35,000 occupied in Africa, there is in the dust
in Pakistan, or in Bangladesh or in Indonesia, 42,000 Americans alone.
What do they want, they want to convert
to their residency. A lot of people this crusade is
just sincere, like they're sincere. They want to go along and change the world. Everybody becomes pious with Muslims. Similarly, the Christian law, he feels that he has a message for us. The message is that salvation, Rihanna genma only comes one way, and that is through the blood of the Lord Jesus. And that was in the Holy Quran. This is a call and they say, linear collision of a lamancha houden amasa that you Muslims will never never enter gender, there is no agenda for you know, heaven for you know, salvation for you. Hilah except, man cannot unless you become a Jew, or unless you become a Christian.
The Jew has fallen out of the race.
He has made his religion of racialization you have to be born a Jew to the Jew. If you want to fall in love with this girl and if you want to any fuse insistent, if you want to become a juke, they will put hurdles in your way. And eventually when you overcome them, they'll convert you willy nilly. But you're still a third grade you they don't want you
the Christian they only want the Jew he only wants political recognition. If you accept that look, Palestine belongs to them. They have a title The truth will be satisfied with you. Our battle with them is not a racial battle. It is not a religious battle. It's politics. Our brothers, the Arabs, they say Palestine belongs to them. Our cousins the Jews, they say Palestine belongs to them. It's a different subject. But now in answer to the most, the Christian is still knocking at our doors. He wants to save us from hellfire. So Allah tells us
Kakadu Linnaeus, calendula, a lemon, Canna whodunit, Masada is it silica Armani
that this is the wishful thinking claim design hallucination but quasi mock was
good. This is how to
produce your evidence.
Your proof that entitles you to channel and distance as the gentleman called How to bronycon
again, if you're speaking the truth, let us have a look at your proof.
This is what Allah asked us to demand from them.
But we haven't done it in 1000 years most Muslim goes out when he makes a claim that Jesus is God.
When he makes the claim that his agenda for agenda for him he's just got to believe and Heaven is for him. We didn't
know see this is a gentleman that you all are going to hell is that all your good deeds are like filthy rags, Socotra, Socotra, all your fasting, me your prayer and your socket and you're hiding the Sonam street jacket in your life is all waste of time.
Did you say was Abraham Allah is telling a secret, the secret of dealing with any type of pain with a from the communists, whether from the Hindus, the atheist, agnostic Jew, anybody is your Buddha. So we haven't asked for Buddha in 1000 years. So they are asking us for Buddha. And in said they have produced this the Bible. They produce the Quran, the Bible says this is the authority. They have produced the Bible in 2000 different languages is happiness in 2000 different languages. They have the Bible.
They have it in the Rockies.
They have 11 different Arabic Bibles
with a sample is something unimaginable that they have 11 different Bibles for the Arabs alone
with 11 different Bibles.
Since there are different dialects, they have different scripts. I didn't know that. To be the Arabic of the Quran is the only Arabic that I was thinking that exists and I thought every Arabic
Speaking the Arabic of the Quran,
there is a Tunisian script. There's a Moroccan script, there is a Syrian script is a Palestinian dialect there is a South Sudanese dialect and on and on 11 different Arabic Bibles.
They have the Bible in 107 African languages, complete Bibles, and another 117 African languages, the New Testament alone.
I'm asking my children, you know, when I go home, what have you done for them.
And what follows from this is that we raise the kitchen, in all their wisdom has been able to open the lines of communication by having so many translations provided we as Muslims, also in order to have the reverse flow of communication, also go through the same route of having as many translations in as many languages so that we can communicate better with the world. That is true. Especially when you speak to a people. They have a certain background and experience. To me, in my experience, I find them the Christian missionaries, they are all one book professors. The only one book The Bible says that my Bible says is my Bible says the Bible says this, my Bible says that. So
right. This is his book. So as it deals with what he says, and when you start analyzing his claim. Amazing. You know, it's not what is telling you.
Now what he's telling you that Jesus is God, for example,
Allah tells us in the Holy Quran that he never said such thing in Surah IRA, that Allah will question him on the Day of Judgment. Yeah, yeah. He says, Oh, Jesus, did you tell your followers to worship you and your mother besides Allah subhanaw taala you know, I never did any such thing. If I had done it, you would have known it.
But after he took me up, you know what they did? So impossible.
So if you punish them, they are Your servants. They are your property, you can do what you like with them.
But if you forgive them, you are Exalted in Might.
And you're wise, you know, what is before them, is your prerogative.
So Allah says, In the Quran, Jesus Christ never made any such claims. But the Christian said, Yes, this is
So what I've been doing in very simple language, in my lectures, the Christian comes along, he will, he's not happy with us that we believe in Jesus. He's not. He said, Look, we believe in Jesus Christ as one of the mightiest messengers of God. We believe that he was born miraculously. We believe that he was the mercy of the Messiah, translated Christ, we believe that he gave back to the dead by God's permission, and he was born blind and the lepers by God's permission, that doesn't satisfy them.
They will know But you see, you don't accept Him as your Lord and Savior.
Allah tells us Could
you show me in your book,
by any version, they have a dozen different versions, 100 different versions, any version, the ISA Islam, Jesus Christ, he says, I am God, as I am prepared to accept Him as far as I know, Allah assured me that there is no such thing.
If he says, and God aren't prepared to accept me by God, he says, worship Me, I'm prepared to worship you. As an admin for my people, the Muslims, they make up their own minds, I am prepared to put my neck on the guillotine.
chop it off, as you like, show me racism, God, show me witnesses wishes me. And believe me in 40 years, I've been talking like this.
Nobody ever comes along with there isn't. On the contrary, Jesus says, he said, My father is greater than I mean, God Almighty, my father is greater than all. He said, I can have my own self do nothing. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is righteous, because I seek not my own will, but the will of Him that simply
This is the woody here are not mine. But the father that sent me he had given me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak, even as a father 72 I speak by the finger of God cast out devils I, by the Spirit of God do these things. Is it that day? They
say of that day, no, no man, no, not the angels, not the son, but the Father in heaven. So all power is given to me. It's not my is given a new word as to the country is showing you that he is like he is and the prophet of God is a mouthpiece of God. He's speaking the words of God, but he's not God. Everything he does, he says, By the finger of God, Allah Who can say macatawa that the Christian leads into scripture, things that are not there. So he said, You see, I'm asking, Where does he say I am God? Where does he say worship? And believe me, Western America.
GDS doctors have divinities, the British, you know, bishops, I'm asking me, does he say I am God? Where does he say we should mean? So the guy comes along. The question is, if you said, I'm a father, or
I'm asking you a simple question, Where is he say, and God, another guy comes along? Is it? Is he that a senior senior father? I will explain all that. But I'm asking you making a simple request. Where does he say, I am God? Where is this a worship? And you say he is God? Yes. So he ought to have known what we go into the minds of the Muslims 1000 million Muslims.
They believe that Jesus Christ would never lie, is a true messenger of God. And roosters will ask, does he say I am God. So he should have thought of that if he is omniscient, being God, then he should have made a claim somewhere along the line. And God, we should we should have been good enough for the Muslims, because we believe that man can fly is a messenger of God, but he never made any such claim. So they come along, says before Abraham was I am so see that I am the way the truth and the life No, please, please, do you understand English?
Of course, this is his mother tongue
is allegedly swagger. You know, Professor Clark graveman, giants of Christianity. And simple question. Do you see this what happens? Allah describes it in the Holy Quran. It's not difficult, hostile and powerful. When truth is heard against falsehood is not subject to brains. This is so simple. so straightforward requests we are making. The guy said, he just doesn't know what is hitting him. So he goes berserk. Then he was attacked the Holy Prophet. He was so pleased, and I'm only asking you a simple request and making sure it to me, and you've got a convert not only a convert as a local, I'll try and convince my other brother as well.
Well, I think from here, I think let's come back to things at home in Pakistan.
You had the occasion of coming to Pakistan, sometimes in the 50s. And I am sure you see bit what you saw of Pakistan, in the 50s. And what you're seeing during the 80s, there must be a world of change. How what is the what are the most significant elements of this change, that you, as a outside observer, have seen in your recent history in Pakistan?
Is it materially looks Pakistan has progressed tremendously?
industrially, I happened to be in 49 5051, I was negotiating for sides in the civil industrial estate.
And I got a piece of land for my institution. And we were starting to put up a spinning mill. And today, the industry is all over, you know, riches. Alhamdulillah, we have done very well.
But you see, I came in the 50s for a special purpose.
I migrated from South Africa, I had a certain life a good job.
And I was moved by the Spirit of Islamic State. That look, I want to go to Pakistan with my wife and children have two children, then a small one was five and one was six. And my wife were young people we just migrated with everything we had this is we came to Pakistan, I settled down here in Karachi. I wanted to be a good Muslim. That's what brought me here. I wasn't forced by any circumstances. Because when this Pakistan idea came into being around the 40s, I was very young, but I was for it. We wanted to establish Islamic state, where Muslims can lead stomach life. And then we can permeate Islam.
So with that enthusiasm, I came here, and I lived here for three years.
I had a good job. And if I kept in that field, and if I go back, I might have been a small industrialist, you know, doing very well, happy karma soccer games. But somehow I got disappointed. And seven days before the ACA was assassinated, I left Pakistan. I was about reaching Mombasa, when we got the news on the radio that that period now, you know, it was around that time. Yes, I was on our way out. But to me, that must have also been a blessing. Because if I didn't go away, I wouldn't have come back the
circumstances created all these things, ramifications that I'm talking about doing instead of you know, having a luxurious life in some mentioned.
I went disappointed. And now when I come back.
This is about the trip trip since 1985 86 and 87 my topic now
be satisfied. You see, when I left Nairobi on the second of October on Friday, the second in the Pakistan, aliens coming to Karachi.
The newspapers were given to Pakistani newspapers and I opened I found something there.
That really hurt me. The first language. You see there was an article on the first language of school. What shall it be?
Should it be Ooo, comma, or sim D comma
and then dot dot dot question mark. What other language
we are debating out of 40 years? What should be the language at school? After 40 years? We haven't settled that yet. So naturally, and then I went to the north for a shower. I've been to Seattle court. I've been to Islamabad, Creta, Lahore.
And I found the Christian activities. They are out they want to convert change the people they're boasting. I've been reading about the most that they have perverted more Pakistanis into Christianity since independence than in the previous 150 years of British rule. And I was told that there are so many cities in Pakistan with an average population of more than 100,000 Christians each. I was told Karachi was one of them. I didn't count them. Karachi Lahore
car court, and I said car caught, somebody said no, not 100,000 more than 200,000
I don't know. And I went and I found it. So that is he in a shower. There are 72 Christian and Zionist units. Looking after the muhajirs
72 as against them, there are only nine Muslim communities units, nine against 72. These supposed to be our brethren. There are more than 50 Muslim countries in the world. They couldn't send a unit each these are all government supported those missions. The Muslim ones are all controlled by individuals businessmen, from here they are financing it. So it hurt me that they are in the guise of service. I don't doubt the sincerity that this is a way to win the hearts of people show compassion for them. They are doing that. For us. We are the Muslims. Then to me Allah is the man is coming from five 6000 miles away from UK is coming from America to propagate.
Like in Karachi, in 1950. Living in Pakistan to catch a road, second floor.
I get a knock at the door.
Early in the morning, I opened the door and a Caucasian white man
says Good morning. Good morning. So what can I do for you? So the answer Look, I got some literature coming side
comes in. So
this is where you come from. See come from.
A few days later another motto
from another white man. Good morning. Good morning. So what can I do for you? This is right in the center of Karachi. I think it was in Pakistan show.
So what can I do for you? This is some literature from inside
America. This guy is coming from 6000 miles. That guy's come from 10,000 miles to preach to me in my country. I want to know what am I doing? Nothing. Copy karma saga Damn.
This is an obligation that will follow the muscle man is to deliver the message.
Long before Salah the cattle had begun farm anaphoric Allah tells his prophets maybe carrying me through he's telling us long before Salah, the cotton had been confirmed he says for Zakat in nama and Thomas okay. So you deliver the message because it is your duty to deliver the message last call in the most it says you will not be questioned regarding them in lamentable so why they accepted or why they didn't accept a loan ask you will ask you Did you deliver the message
but there's something wrong with our people. You see, my my my community especially if majority Muslim, my forefathers were Hindus two to 400 years ago.
for 5000 years, I have been having new blood flowing in my veins my people. I don't know about the Pakistanis. How many of them are pure Arabs. I don't know how many of them have potions I don't know. But to me this subcontinent.
This subcontinent for 5000 years Hinduism prevail, or whatever it stood for. Go to Monte Da Vinci when you go to Texas pindy the civilization that existed here. What was it? It wasn't Islam. It was a Hindi stick thing the whole thing.
You see the the the in the museum in taxila. What you see there this is all the relics of
The past my ancestry, my ancestors, all that machinery,
the whole machinery, but that caste system,
grading people's humanity into different different stages, that that idea that Hinduism is still flowing in our face. And it seems to be taking a long time getting out of our system, universe, in your view at the grassroot level is still there's a lot to be done in the matter of making people to fully understand the message of Islam and electricity. And this is how we will be able to really bring Islam down to the common man in the country. How do you find the economic life in Pakistan between 1914 and 15 economically and very satisfied, you know, the food is, you know,
relatively cheap compared to other countries compared to my country's sheep, or the newest, most specially the basic things. They are cheap. And the community is very, very healthy, strong competition across the border. You know, we are better fair, stronger community a lot of energy.
We've got so much energy and we don't know how to use it. So what we are doing now we using this energy to bash each other. That is a busy busy
Very heavy, there's no standard size. You very Massara close. Busy, busy busy.
I'm so sorry. I say how to talk. Okay, hot attention.
Busy, busy, busy. Instead of going to the basically splitters. We are now getting LASIK seems at this point of time into farms and certain rituals, which we have to get rid of that stuff. No, no, I won't say get rid of what I say is the important things in life. You must identify, you know, who are there to support you who are out to steal your children, instead of worrying about that is worrying about the beard, for the mustache should be shaved, they should be trimmed. What is this luxury that you're enjoying? We can't afford these luxuries. Because these are the thing that's going to destroy us is going to break us up. And in 40 years, unfortunately, 40 years have gone. We
haven't even become Pakistanis. We were supposed to be good Muslims. That will take a little longer. But we haven't even become Pakistanis. Now if that hurts me. And I don't know, you know that the powers that be? How is it that for 40 years, you have not been able to bring these people together as a unit as a people, one nation,
the sacrifices that were made, since you have been all in vain.
That hurts me at the heart.
Thank you very much, Mr. Good to be with us today. And thank you all so very much for giving us the cosmic message of Islam. How Islam is a religion that tries to be in harmony among various societies, various legions of mankind, and what we are doing in Pakistan, what needs to be done in Pakistan, I think we have hit the nail on the head by saying that we need to get to the basic splitters love and try to achieve harmony and integration among the
various classes of people in this country so that we can be the standard bearer of Islam in the modern world. Thank you very much.