Channel: Ahmed Deedat
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This recording was rediscovered by chef Madeira in 2004. While he was bedridden, paralyzed and unable to talk, he communicated his desire for everyone to watch this recording, which he called either a fundamentalist, he used his communication port to express his desire to release this recording. It was recorded during March 1996. Shortly before sheppy that became seriously ill, existing television journalists came to interview him about Islamic fundamentalism and other issues around it. As you will see, the journalists was well aware, and well, of the words have shifted. Whether this interview was ever produced in aired on television by the journalist is unknown. This
version was recorded by the secret cameras in chef de la office, it is released in the hope that it will benefit Muslims, about how to respond to questions about Islamic fundamentalism, as well as enlighten non Muslims more about this very current topic, especially after 911 in the London bombings
is we Western world and the Christian will knows Islamic fundamentalism. And the picture paying to me and two other people a lot of Christians is violence.
Because that's the picture we see. We see bombs going off in Israel, and it's jihad or Hamas. What is Islamic fundamentalism is a very strange thing. This word fundamentalist and fundamentalism does not exist in the vocabulary of Islam.
In Arabic In Urdu, in none of our native languages, this word
is to define
this word fundamentalism. fundamentalism, is an invention of the Americans.
They they invented this word to describe those Bible thumpers those who say that every word in the Bible was revealed by God, every comma full stop and column was revealed by God. They call them fundamentalists, who call them fundamentalists. Let the Muslims you Christians call them fundamentalist. and by extension or anyone who goes to extremes in religion, yeah, start labeling. So now if anybody a Muslim goes, does something extreme.
Immediately you label him a fundamentalist
forgetting that in Christian them, he had similar type of people. Reverend Jim Jones, in Jonestown, Ghana.
He committed suicide with 911 of his followers and mass
he was a Christian fundamentalist would you don't call him so? That david koresh that wacko, wacko remember
that gang was a fundamentalist. You don't call them fundamentalists. These pro lifers in America are bombing hospitals with abortion and killing people. They are a fundamentalist, but you don't call them fundamentalist. I want to know why.
A fella by the name of Ferguson, an afro American
on the New York express a 533. He will shut down people. That guy was a fundamentalist, but you don't call him a fundamentalist. This Jew who went and slaughtered the Muslims that prayer in a mosque.
An American would settle down and
the guy was a fundamentalist. You don't call him a fundamentalist. The guy who shot right in is a fundamentalist, but you don't call him fundamentalist. How is it that you only seem to be applying this on Muslims? You got double standards. You have fundamentalist those guys in Japan that guess gassing people remember in Tokyo something so many people died.
Those guys are fundamentalists. But you don't call them fundamental is only a Muslim becomes a fundamentalist. I want to know why.
So you have extremes among Christians and Hindus and Jews and sheknows. Japanese, you also have extremists among the Muslims. But now this label is uncalled for.
Would you consider yourself an extremist? If you're going to put that label? How would say I accept the fundamentals of my faith? I believe in them, and I live by them. For example, Islam forbids
the touching of alcohol. So I won't touch anything of the nature of sweetness.
I won't touch it with your blood. I won't touch it. It says no gambling is no gambling. No promiscuous, no dancing with other people's wives and daughters. So I won't do that. pray five times a day said I will try and do that. Fast forward whole month in
A month of Ramadan from before sunrise to sunset, no eating, no drinking, no sniffing, no smoking, I said, I will do that. So if that makes me a fundamentalist, I'm a fundamentalist. And I want every Muslim and every Christian and every Jew to follow the religion that way, that if your religion tells you that Jesus said, You must not look upon a woman to lust after her. Did you live by that?
You don't, I said, I would like to see
that you have no beauty contest, no lonely contest, no, no witch bump contest, which has going on, and you're good Christians. You go to church regularly. So I want you to be a fundamentalist in that respect. The teachings of Christ, follow it to the letter to the Bible, follow it to the letter, Muslim, follow the Quran to the letter,
in spirit, and in form. So now, if that is called fundamentalism, then I think all good religious people have every choice and denomination will be a fundamentalist, and you have an exceptional type of people in America.
I read the book by Billy Graham, how to be born again. And in that it says, There are 75 million born again, Christians in America.
They are all fundamentalists. Except it says, I am a fundamentalist. But I don't believe in throwing stones, or grenades are people with me. I'm prepared to talk to them.
As soon as my sister is in this way, you have misunderstood this. And you are in debate recently put me right. I said that's all valid,
that I prepared to do to talk to people to Hindus, to Christians, to Jews,
to the atheist, agnostic, I want to talk to them all, trying to be true to God. God says, and if you call me fundamentalist, I'll be proud. That makes me fundamentalist, but I don't believe in killing.
You say that you don't believe in throwing stones or bombs, yet
the groups that that the waste is called fundamentalist Islamic groups.
As well as the Jewish fundamentalist groups are killing each other in Palestine, Israel. They are bombing people, they're killing innocent people. And on page 72 of your book, you say
gun The gun is not the answer. Put on your sword for all their their take up the sword will perish by the sword. And yet further on in your book, you saying
300 years of slavery and hammering is turned the afro American Muslims into one of the most militant Muslim communities in the world. Arm him, help him to Islam eyes America before Armageddon overtakes. So it seemed it appears to me that in the same book, you're saying, we should not live by the sword, but then we must arm ourselves. arm yourself with knowledge? Is it 100 watt with grenades with guns. I says no with the same you saying the military.
The intellect once you give that person something to talk about, like the born again, Christian is coming in knocking on our doors. He's armed with certain type of specialized knowledge. Christ died for your sins. Jesus said, I am a father of one. Jesus said He did a simulation the pilot. He's 100 that and with that is coming along to customers, converts people
knowledge and knowledge that you can talk otherwise 25 million Americans suppose they all become Muslims 250 million of others. What can they do? What can they do with any type of force? So no, but there is a force of the intellect. top top chain that people make them to see things like you to see things like you, and they are yours. So when I say the whole thing, this is you know what I'm talking about? I don't tell you the average to go and you know, supply them with guns or grenades. I said, help them with the Quran. Help them with the type of book that I'm writing. In I am the people to do the job with knowledge, not with guns and grenades. But now what's happening in Palestine etc.
Do you support that violence that groups of Hamas are committing as well as I support no violence from either side?
I have been telling them if you read the book, this book,
you will see that we must have a dialogue with the Jews. Talk to him and talk to him.
Because I have been talking to Jews, and I've been talking to Christians. And when I'm talking to them, I can see that they're very reasonable people are you have extremist among them.
But I can see when I'm talking to them, I work for Jews. And as such, I came into close contact with them. They came to my home
setting at work, I've been chatting, arguing, debating, then I have lectured to Jewish students at the University of Capetown University of Natal, Witwatersrand University, I've been talking to you students, and I find them fantastic audiences, wonderful audiences out there. What about that's it. That is the nature of this tool. It is a university student, you know, it is full of life energy, he wants to show what he knows. But at the end of it, I can see they're a very reasonable people. So I said, learn to talk. And I tell you now, I show you what to talk about.
And not only just as you do this, I show you how to talk, what to listen to me.
There's over 80 different videotapes on religious topics, including Israel set up for destruction, or Arabs in Israel, conflict or conciliation, all these things that this this is the way of showing people how you can arm yourself with knowledge that you can share, and make the people to think like you
see your point of view.
You You propagation center, is is trying to
say convert Christians, to Islam with adverts that you place in the newspaper etc. Quotes such as leave your sectarian attitude and follow Islam. And I've also been quoted by somebody that Christianity is considered as a standard
of religion whereas Islam is considered a trick.
Israel intention to get people to follow Islam even if it's by coercion or force, considering that the Quran says there shall be no compulsion in religion, I prefer
to say the Quran says like gravity, there is no compassionately by force somebody makes you to say some formula, for example, you have come into my office.
And in my gang,
we pull out a gun as I
say the Shahada, the Muslim form of conversion,
to articulate the formula.
Otherwise, the blast
was that Uncle, I said, c'est la ilaha illAllah. Muhammad Rasulullah it means that there is not an object of worship, but Allah, and Muhammad is the messenger. So you believe that?
What is it what
is rubbish? That's rubbish. It must come voluntarily from you. ankle, I like to be honest, you
have to go through a certain process. You know, I have to give you all your do's and don'ts, you know, your obligations, and you agree with all that and you can become a Muslim, you're welcome. Whether you are a white, Caucasian or an African bush number. Whatever you are, if you agree to the way of life that you want to lead, you are mostly the concept of God really have you have you ever been Muslim? So we want to lead the whole world to think like us.
Islam is a mission as a religion as much as Christianity.
Christianity is a missionary religion, it wants to convert the whole world, his way of thinking, to his way of salvation. Islam also wants the whole world to accept Islam as a solution to all the all of them, hence, problems. So it is my duty and every Muslims duty to
talk to people.
And in that, I'm prepared to talk to the Hindu to the Christian to the Jew, because that's my, that's the foremost duty of every Muslim is to share his faith with other people.
Christians and Jews are saved by Islam to the people of the book, and their religions respected like an ally to continuing peace.
How can then use How can you then be determined to make South Africa an Islamic country? Surely that's then not respecting and leaving the other religions to practicing.
This is voluntarily done. Like today now 80% of the Africans are Christians. How do you
know missionary work? So by missionary work, if I start talking to you and I see your point of view,
trying to tell you what Islam is
The culmination of the teachings of Moses and Jesus, you are as you gave that expression. Now, the Jew acid is in a standard six stage
a standard six education we had a DSC highpass PSC primary certificate,
examination, standard six through seven, six, then we had JC, the standard eight, then we had metric that said a 10. So as a figuratively, as you see, the Jew is understand the sixth stage. The Christianity, Christians have come up standard eight stage, I said not that's not the end of education, Jesus Christ. He said, he said, I have yet many things to say unto you, but you cannot bear them now. How beat when he The Spirit of Truth is come, He will guide you into all four he shall not speak for himself. But what is he here that shall he speak, and he shall declare unto you the things that are broken, he shall glorify Me. Many Muslims, we say that that spirit of truth is
and is guided mankind it also means is given solution to all your problems.
all your problems come to Islam, which shows you how to how to solve the problems. Not only just by talking problem, athletes racism is still there. Still there. You just can't wash it off by putting certain clauses in the Constitution. You can eliminate this is from your hearts, Islam as a system.
The only religion on the face of the earth, which prohibits the touching of alcohol, not one sip, not one thought, is this law. There is no other religion on Earth. This is not in fact, that Roman abominable style. Is this lie? Is it a good thing or a bad thing? If all the people of South Africa, Indians, African colors and whites if they stopped drinking? No more, no more water stores? No more? No more wineries and no more breweries in the country? Would it be a better country or not? So I reasoned, it will be better, but you know, how can we our industries depend upon this and that and that I submit is your vested interest. You people who are running the country have all your shares
in the Stellenbosch winery and this lion brewery. So in other words, you want to perpetuate that exploitation of the nation. But if you think like a Muslim, Muslim owns a bottle store, did you know that it's easy money,
the choice of the people who are buying local to buy and you see as a Muslim, I can sell boy, I can sell. Because now as a Muslim, you come to buy a bottle of champagne or what? I have to tell you
very dangerous, you know, this is not a good thing. Do you think I will be able to do business selling selling my all my wines and all that. I tell every customer that comes along and says you no matter? You know what this thing does? You read the book of Genesis chapter 19. Not what he did with his daughters night after night. Is he committed instance with his daughters because he was done? You know, that is a very bad thing. You know, nah, he drank too much. He was like naked, made a fool of himself. And man, what? Before boy walked with God, that guy behaving like like.
So the good thing, and we hear about cases, they insist on elbow, elbow, elbow, so it is an evil abomination. And the only reason is condemned in the strongest of them is Islam. And Islam has created the biggest Society of teetotallers in the world. We are almost a billion Muslims in the world. And almost as that people as a whole, we don't have that stuff.
Do you think we should share this with the rest of mankind?
What are you trying to do? We're not forcing you that if you went to the bottle store, we don't send gun bomb, the bottle stores are filled with people who go and buy alcohol. But we will
say it is not a good thing. And if you can agree with me, we are one one go to think like me, and one day, you say inshallah God willing, the whole of mankind will be able to establish the kingdom of God on earth is Jesus I pray for that kingdom of God means you will lead your life according to God's will and plan whatever he wants you to do you do.
That is the kingdom of God. We want to establish here on this earth, not with again, not with
with speech language. It can be them. We try to do that.
You've said before and your center said before that Islam has is the only answer to South Africa's problems.
What solutions do you have? What practical solutions does Islam offer? And what what would that mean? What would those solutions mean?
to other religions already existing? This is one of the things once you accept, for example,
our biggest problem in South
We have been for the past 300 years and now is racism. This is everybody talks about the fatherhood of God and the Brotherhood of men. Everybody will you will say, this one our Father in heaven, God Almighty, and we are always children. The Christian says the same thing, Father in heaven and get it to him, the minister will say, veto.
And we must live in peace and harmony as real sisters.
So everybody talks that, but how do you implement that?
The system was for 300 years that you kept all the race is separate.
You had the Dutch Reformed Church, for the whites separate for the color separate, for the African separate for the Indian separate in the Roman Catholic Church. They didn't have that type of different churches. But here's the cathedral here. And I used to live here in this road called Cathedral road.
And every year there was a Corpus Christi procession, passing my book. Every once a year, Corpus Christi Body of Christ, there is to match, go to the Albert Park and offer plays and all that and is to come back.
Invariably, every year I'm watching the white men women shown in the front. Next comes the colored men, women and children, then comes the Indian men, women and children, then comes the African men, women and children in variable setup, who told them that the African knew his place, and the colored knew his place? And the Indian knew his place? No, you programmed him that way that this is where you belong.
So do you talk about the father of the Golden man, it wasn't there. In the house of Islam. If you ever visit the Muslim affair is worth visiting, it's worth recording for your audiences.
You watch that everybody stand shoulder to shoulder
the whole is packed.
But you find moberries is like a 10 year window is a hot day.
system. So the rows through the rows, side by side, shoulder to shoulder to the women stand shoulder to shoulder with a man No, there is what is called a segregation of the sexes. Women women are not allowed to freely intermingle. So in the absence of a separate facility, they fall. But in this master, there is a separate facility upstairs in a mosque and out of the mosque. what it stands for is this is free, internally,
free intermingling. But women the women are bound to one Muslim lady, a white woman is standing next to you, a Chinese woman is standing next to you. And you offer your face no gaps left between one devotee and another same thing to the men. So five times a day that people need to come together using the same taps for a solution. They're using the same towels for wiping the faces. And it doesn't occur in the minds of these people that an African had just used that tap or the Africa has just wiped his face. It doesn't appeal to the man who's calling the people affair is almost invariably in every mosque in South Africa and Africa.
He has a tone his bass voice compared to the Indian shrill voice, we are shouting the same words. But our was such sharp and surely that guys, it's been so mellow. So you say to me like that? His voice. So almost every mosque in the center of the town is African and African and African. He is the guy behind the man to call the fields. Come on, come on.
Fill the rows. So, in other words, now, it doesn't occur to us that the guy is an African
because that's our training. You know, oh,
he is like Milan, Milan was the container. The property was a senior
senior. He was a freed slave. And he occupies such a high position in the house of Islam. He's like one of your disciples of Jesus. The law was one of the plotline around
another scene in ego. So those
five times a day, the end we ended up
with the formula by saying a Salam aleikum wa rahmatullah wa. So Peace and blessings of God to everybody right of me.
salaam aleikum wa rahmatullah in peace in business with everybody who left. When I did that, I follow.
When I did this, I found an African here next time, Chinese here, I found that
five times a day is my brother is not there is a system not just talking, there is a system which then once in a lifetime, the guy goes on a pilgrimage. There different solutions. He can imagine Chinese Muslims,
Chinese Muslims from Ethiopia that has been misconstrued turkey with blond hair and blue eyes like you
The purpose is my brother is my brother.
So it is a system, then only religion, he says don't touch alcohol. Only religion says no gambling, the only religion says no permissiveness. Now, once you accept these things together, you have common ideas, then you'll be able to say, you know, close down your bottles do your
wineries and breweries and your pocket is, you know, close them down, and it can happen
is the people vote. So if the people is what they want, we want to request even the people say, no alcohol, no gambling, no dancing, no pigs in the country.
We concentrate, but we want to be
acceptance of our, our principles, the city that you said that the Christian religion and the Jewish religion and Islam believes of one brotherhood believes in
But by saying that you are saying to me, only Islam, people then said, I was only Islamic people don't break those.
I don't need that. But this is the only religion which now talks and practicing.
Angels, we also have a black sheep, like any other community, you know, whether they're Christians, or Jews, we all have our black sheep. Muslims are not exempt from that. But as a people as a whole, I said 1 billion people as a whole, they don't touch alcohol
as a whole in South Africa, and boosting and nobody has contradicted me yet. I said, we Muslims in South Africa, we have the lowest alcohol consumption in the country. They have the lowest gambling rates in the country. We have the lowest divorce rate in the country, we have the lowest suicide rate in the country, and we have the highest charity rate in the country.
And nobody could
look around. And you see how we Muslims live among the Indians. I mean, Indian Muslims are Indian Hindus, you ask an old indian Hindu, that if you want to try the good old days, and there's Muslim shopkeeper, and there's a shopkeeper, who will
say, we are Hindus, we tell your grandfather, that it doesn't matter.
is a training event you're programming you're brainwashing, you have been brainwashed that way. makes it difficult for us to say no.
It's not a part of your training to give charity is our is an injunction, a two and a half percent of all your whatever you have for the year
114. And every year, if you get a million, every year, after that million, two and a half percent goes out. So in 40 years time, if we didn't do anything else, do all your money is gone. So makes you to do some work, not to finish. So
investing, and no interest, no building societies, no banking individual interest to say, now I can sit back and earn a living. No, no, you put your money to work, you work and you put your money to work. This is the system which creates a type of society which we say establish the kingdom of God, Jesus Christ wanted us to establish.
But is that not religion? That's a dictatorship to people with this teaching of Christ, Jesus teaching the Bible, Thou shalt not commit adultery, is that not a dictatorship? God says I shall have no given images before me not even likeness of the things on Earth, or in the heavens above, or in the waters beneath the sea. For my name is jealous and jealous ball. Is that not dictatorship? Is it? The fish of the swine, Thou shall not eat its carcass that shall not touch. Do you know that that's in your Bible?
And Jesus Christ said, the guy who offends one of these little ones is it is better for him that a new stone The title is like someone in the sea, that not all dictatorship? No, this is the law of God. We want you to lead your life according to them. This is God's law. If you want peace, we say there is no other way but to submit to His law for everybody's benefit. He doesn't say that you Muslims, you must not drink, but you sell it to the Christian. Let him become a drunkard. Let him ruin his life.
He doesn't say that. He says, not only that I can't drink I'm not supposed to drink. But I'm not supposed to plant
wine grapes with
the Holy Prophet Muhammad. He said, first is He who grows grapes or
cursed is He Who crushes it. First is He who bought it. First is He Who says it and cursed is He who drinks it. So the Muslim has got nothing to do with the type of industry. But planting grapes or any of the food in the house of Islam is an act of charity selected
Machu Picchu planted for eating is a blessing. So planted for selling is a blessing. But if you applied to the idea, what do I do with all these grapes in Stellenbosch? If you inherited 50 acres of 50 hectares of land, what are you gonna do with all those grapes?
Send it to the winery and send it to the brewery.
But he said, No, I was gonna sell it six months at home, no, five cents a pound, let the people have it enjoy. It's an act of virtue. So this is how Islam wants to change your outlook. Pigs is a very easy thing to hear Money, money, money, cakes, alcohol, money, money, money, taxes, gambling, money, money, money, but the Muslim, His hands are clean, relatively. I can't find a Muslim who's doing that.
No bottle stores. No wineries, no shares the breweries and no share in the gambling dens that is the Muslim. We have no insurance. We also have with us, but we as a people as a whole is about the fusi Shinoda test and by the fruits, the Muslim compared with any other community
as a people as a whole.
We don't try
to Mohamad Bay and that was the Mohamad way. I have to apologize for that moment in this moment under racism as a people as a whole.
This type of people, we were the most law abiding citizens for the past 300 years in this country. That's apartheid on
the testimony, most law abiding people in South Africa where the Muslim,
Muslim and Christian have told me when I mentioned you and your propagation center, that you are not the spokesperson of Islam in this country at all.
What What would you come in to know after the fact read this before I came into meeting them to leave they tell you that asked them Have you been a spokesman at all? Have you got a spokesman at all? There is no not the that but so and so. So I will tell you no cell number one to start with. There is no such thing as a spokesman for Islam. Every Muslim is supposed to be a spokesperson for Islam. Then I said you see in the case of Jesus
was he a spokesman for jewelry?
Was he know his people every time you open his mouth they picked up stones to stony for Canada spokesman said
that's history. Your Bible is full of it. Every time he opened his mouth. They picked up stones again to stone him and again picked up stone against to stone him. He was no spokesman for Julian he was he?
He wasn't. Paul was persecuted. PETA was persecuted the Holy Prophet Muhammad when he declared his mission. Was he a spokesman for his people? No, the whole nation ran against him. His whole nation for 13 years he suffered at the hands. Two migrations. to assimilate, the Muslims had to flee twice to have a senior and the Holy Prophet Muhammad, Allah 13 is to also flee for his life. So in other words, he was no spokesman for the Arabs. Jesus was not a spokesman for jewelry. And I can't claim to be a spokesman for the community of Muslims.
But as a Muslim, it is every Muslim is duty according to his capacity. According to knowledge, he Shay, there are people who like it, the people who don't like it. And there are different reasons for people not loving a person, that different reason. Maybe somebody don't like your beard. Somebody didn't like the tone of your voice, too loud and you like the the 100 different reasons. A man finds if you don't want to like a bad person, if you want to dislike a person, there are 100 different reasons. You can hate Jesus, and you can hate Muhammad. And you can hate on Medina
because these people have said they are the spokespeople, the chairman of Islamic foundation groups that are
that they would prefer on the spokespeople of Islam who's talking. The only person in South Africa who's talking is me. There's not a single Muslim in history of South Africa, Muslims have ever been to the city hall of Durban, Johannesburg, Cape Town maritzburg to go and deliver the message of Islam. There hasn't been in the history of South Africa. It hasn't happened.
Right? And the that happens to be the only guy doing the job. So people might listen to this and look man, this is not a learned follow and I'm not according to people's academic education, not an educated follow.
I was set up for this. I was set up for this.
You know, when I tell people that you know I'm astounded senate six Johnny the PSC Prime Minister
Mistake six Johnny. And I'm recognizing the whole Muslim world
as an authority on comparative religion.
this puppy around?
They said, Look, I don't recognize it doesn't matter.
Doesn't matter. What does the word say? What does the word say? My society happens to be the most successful of any religious organization of this nature in the world.
The proof of the pies in the eating
by the fruit,
the fruits, the fruits, your societies and boys, what are the fruits, my boys and society? What are the fruits?
So this, I mean by the Australia,
at the end of the month, I'm going to Australia on a lecture tour.
America, from England, from the Arab countries, they want me they want me they want me they're hungry for them. But Jesus said, a prophet is not without honor, except in his own country. That was his position. So if my position becomes similar, I don't have
to worry. This was Jesus, the Prince of Peace, people. He said, in his own Galilee, a prophet is not without honor, except in his own country, among his own people, his own family.
If South Africa, let's say, years down, the red was to become an Islamic country.
What would the practical implications be to our society, regarding Firstly, regarding religion, and secondly, regarding how the laws of this country change, as a religious freedom of religion, Islam allows freedom of religion. You see, the Muslims don't stand for 800 years, maybe Spain, and European nation for 800 years. But after 800 years of history, the Muslims were kicked up a man,
there was not one person left in that country to give the Muslim call to prayer
after 800 years,
so if there was any type of coercion,
I can imagine for 800 years, the Spanish people could have survived discussions with Muslims with India for 1000 years, and up to 1000 years of Muslim who eventually when partition takes place, the Muslim gets one quarter, the Hindu get three quarter.
If we use any type of force, this Hindus wouldn't have been left there.
So Islam gives you freedom of religion, if people as a whole, if you think alike, the majority of the people feel that you know, you have a referendum on
the political party and see if it was voted into power with some 80% or 90%, they wouldn't have needed anybody's assisting in the voting to change the constitution. So they say 80% of the people if they were all ANC, or if they gotta veto 80% in the government, they don't need any any help from anybody else to change the constitution. So similarly, if we reset the state, that the bulk of the people are sending them to vote the Muslim party into power, and they survived no alcohol
in the country,
on the wineries in the brewery must close down, all the bottle stores must close down.
What objection has any reasonable person to have against that? If 80% of the people 75% of the people says no alcohol, no gambling, no racing? What is wrong with that? What is wrong with it is that this is what the people want, give it to them.
Even on abortion, give it to them, if there's no abortion, give it to them. That's what you say, that's your philosophy. So then what what have you done below. So this is we want to reach a state with a mass of the people they think like me, that's what I want to talk to people, I want you to think like me, I want everybody to think like me. So once you think like me, one day, we can establish the type of Kingdom of God on earth, which I believe in and which I say is exactly what Jesus Christ wanted.
And I need your help in that manner, how to get it voluntarily by chatting, talking to you over a period of time, you can be programmed brainwashed. Like all all of us, we can be programmed brainwashed into attitudes, behavior, the communists that program, their service with this thing, and the Hitler, Nazi Germany, they will program so everybody gets programmed along the line, the Americans are programmed according to the democratic system. So everybody gets programmed. So we want to program you, and in reality to program us, let us talk let us exchange views.
experienced the revival in the world. And somebody said to me, that it's real
To the belief that Christianity is number one perceived as a colonizer number two Western and three materialistic. And because there has been this revival,
fundamentalist groups and when I say that I'm talking the militancy that we we experienced or taking advantage of us.
Is this the case, because the groups that are using violence seem to be tolerated
and left to do
Even the people like you will not agree with it. But they seem to be left alone.
They are being left alone. Anyway. This guy is in America, the wackos and the Reverend Jim Jones, and the Ferguson fellow and the guy in Oklahoma bombing. What are you doing for them?
They're they're, you know, they're they're walking in with what are you doing to them?
Nothing. The guy was coming and knocking at your door.
Every born again Christian is knocking at the country's door is knocking the Muslims door, knocking the hinges door. He's possessed with a spirit. He wants to change the world. What are you doing with them? Don't you? We don't say now the guy comes and knocks on my door killing? Come sit down, I would say Come sit down. What have you got the main knocking at the doors on choosing filing purposes.
But now, that same militancy with that other guy's using, maybe he's put into a situation where you are not getting the chance to talk. Like in South Africa. You see, it was supposed to be a democratic country for 300 years. Democracy of the white man is the white man who voted the white man into power. 80% of the people had no vote. And this, the political parties are banned.
So what do I do I blame Mandela for spending 27 years in prison.
I said the only thing he knew that he could do to change the system was what they were doing. So I sympathize with them, though I'm not for violence. So what can I do? What do I do with them? I start fighting them. They say no, they want to free me from the shackles of a party. Now what do I do? And
they start sniffing them out and will tell him the government's Look, the guys are there in the Maputo border, what do I do?
So in other words, you see that enthusiasm is there. And maybe it's a reaction. And it's this is the nature of things. God Almighty works in a mysterious way
you see is the Christians didn't come and knock at our door, we might not have woken up
to what we're doing
is a Christian who woke us up.
At school, I worked at Adams mission station, outside of Sydney,
Adams mission station, Adams college, by the American for Africans, across the valley from this institution was a shop where I was working, and the missionaries, what the feeling that they were getting, were experimenting all what they learned on the people working in the shop, all young men just left school, cheap labor.
So they come along into the shop to buy the buy bread, rice, sugar, flour. And at the same time, you know, Muhammad, so many wives
know nothing about that.
And you nothing about that. He says, you know, he copied his book, The Quran from the Jews and the Christians. Nothing about that. So you know, Muhammad spread the sword, you force people to accept Islam. So if you don't subscribe top of your head. I know nothing about that. And none of the guys who knew anything about what these guys are talking missionaries, they make life miserable for us, attacking us money owned business want to sell sugar and salt, flour and rice, they want to talk about religion, whatever training they get the experimenting on that.
So the product and the type of person by nature, what made me so
now I want to find the answer. And I found an answer in Wilmington book.
And that changed my life. That Wilmington book, and now I write books as a result of what I had read in the Wilmington book.
quarter million average quarter million of this quarter million of this for my community is stupendous figure
their continuation volume to volume three and writing it home.
Millions of benefits have been distributed.
The one I showed you about His Holiness the Pope. I did quarter million of that. The Stanford quarter million
in Arabic and
In English, so, in other words, it's working, it's working. But it is all as a result is that the actual to what was being done. And today, each and every Muslim home, a Christian missionary goes and I've been asking people question in public meetings, said Is there a Muslim here who's brought has not been not made Christian yet? Please put up your hand.
In the first meeting I asked this question not one, but that maybe they don't understand my English. So the question is, is there a Muslim here whose blood has not been not by Christian yet, please put up your hand? Not one. Next one, gathering, not one. Next one, not one out of five. One guy put up his hand.
So I pass it as a joke. I said, you see, this man must be living in an ivory tower
in the basement somewhere, that somehow the Christian escaped him.
It was a joke. Again, another citizens meeting another five. Another guy. Also, one guy could have his hand that nobody has come and knocked at his door, again, is silicon choke? If everybody everywhere says somebody has been knocking at your door, I'm here, this guy, nobody. Again, the same type of remark is that, you know, he must be living in an avatar with this man. But It's question time that man comes forward. And he says, You see, when the Jehovah's Witnesses then they visited me at home, then everybody laughed. So this is the guy who said nobody had knocked at his door, when he said the Jehovah's Witnesses in the game to say this is what it is. In other words, not that
Christian is waking us up. You want our children, you want to convert them. To us. This is the highest crime.
This is apostasy. Sin, this is highest crime. That means now from the worship of the one true God, you're going to take away my child to go and worship Jesus Christ, a human being like myself, a great man, am I the Messenger of God, but he says no, he's not a God Himself, is to be worshipped. This is not that my child will do an asset we believe will go to hell. And this will go to hell. He is more dangerous. That missionary is more dangerous to me and my people than the Russians in Afghanistan, or the Jews in Palestine, or the or the Russians in Chechnya, or the bosmans is the Serbs in Bosnia. The guy who steals my fate is more dangerous from the Islamic point of view than
the guy who takes my life. Well, if it takes my life, I go to heaven.
donnerstag people if they died at the end of the Russian, we believe they'll go to heaven. If the Jews killed the Palestinian Muslim will go to heaven. You see if the Serbs kill the Muslim as it will go to heaven. If the Russians killed the chickens, they will go to heaven. But you taking my child is my child will go to hell. You are more dangerous. stealing my fate is more dangerous to me than stealing my life. is is is it dangerous enough to use force against
me talk? Let us talk and we believe in talking. We have been talking. For the past 40 years I've been talking
City Hall of Durban Johannesburg, Cape Town. I'm talking
and do believe me in 40 years? No, not a single person has thrown a Rotten Tomato. They know that. And the most sensitive topics most controversial topics was Christ crucified. 1000 200 million Christians say yes. 1000 million Muslims say no. realize the truth. You be the judge. And no incidents, no incidents, one meeting, same topic. We can do many papers on shooting myself at the Greenpoint like 30,000 people gathered to listen to both sides, and new incident. Look, in other words, we're mature enough to listen to each other sponsor us and make up our minds. This is what we want. Islam expects. Then if you get me, then I have a right to fight. Then how to find these means
to topple the government, even physically, even with guns and grenades. But if you give me religious freedom, give me a chance to talk. Give me opportunity to talk. Don't get me. Because when you gank me I might explode
and give you the same opportunity. Can you talk to us the reason we recently do and by that process, we reach a conclusion that Islam is the way in which we believe it is the next one.
In this fellowship of faith.
there's a there's a lot of
comparison, in your writings and in writings and in speeches that have been broadcast to militancy.
And the one says about the Ayatollah Khomeini, I picked up this quote,
Jihad must trial. Holy War means the conquest of all Muslim territories. And the final aim is to prove Quranic law.
Wind power from one end of the world to another.
The last statement that the Quranic law must prevail. I stand for that, because the Quran says the Quran says.
He says he's given you a way of life. This religion Islam, says we use the hero who alleged in a way of life a dean, digital Master, overcome and supersede all college, whether it be Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Judaism, every Islam, Islam is destined to master them.
He was the American historian, in his book, The shape of things to come. He says that Africa is a free field for all religions, but the religion with the African will accept is a religion with best suits his needs, and that religion. Everyone has the right to speak on the subject says is this law? George Bernard Shaw, the great British playwright, George Bernard Shaw, he said, if any religion has a chance of conquering England, near Europe within the next 100 years, is that that religion is Islam. But the sad thing is that the Muslims, we haven't made a statue
that make a fat man. This is the destiny the Quran says this is your destiny.
Against battle against false, any type of false, this is must prevail. And so he said, we have the truth, the whole truth, not partial truth, and we want to share with mankind and we believe will succeed. Islam is the fastest growing view in the world today. And no guns, no guns and no grenades in the West, what guns and grenades that in England, we are there are more Muslims and lotteries in England.
There are more Muslims than Methodist.
In America, we have something like nearly 6 million. What guns? What grenades? What force? No, is a force of the intellect. top top people and there are people good people among all communities at all times, who will have country this is not this is the better way of life hasn't hasn't the growth of Islam in the Western world and Western cultures been because of Western influence on Islam
has hasn't the Western
influence become christianized. But we are getting moved onwards into slum then we out of it. I mean an occasional here and there for a young man for a woman sake for many sake for prestige, he can be converted. But theologically I can imagine a Muslim from leading the worship of the one true God, the one that Jesus Christ spoke about. He said, God is Spirit. And those that worship Him must worship Him in truth and in spirit, not in form, shape or size. And we accept that and we believe and we live by that. believe that in worship a human being.
This is no, this is now the highest form of flattery that you say that this human being is God Almighty.
So in other words, not by a reasonable person, Jesus Christ was a mighty messenger. We Muslims, we believe that's what my Quran says is one of the mightiest messengers of God. We accept his miraculous birth, which many modern day Christians, including the bishops of the Anglican Church, they don't believe today.
Did you know that and His Holiness, the Pope, you know, he's also coming near of Islam. Here, this book,
this book here is an imaginary this book, like the photo I was sharing, I said the photo was taken for me, the type of logical you said, This book is also written for me.
What do you say?
How can this goes bestseller written for me as a primitive?
I said, you see, Muslims are allergic to you saying Jesus is the only begotten Son, the cotton not made, yet allergic to the Quran. Take strong exception to that statement of yours, the cotton not made. So is the way the garden is irritating, as
you see when you say not made
sick God is all about the good and the bad, the similar in the same we all know. But Jesus is not like that the Christians is the cotton not made to us when the English that your forefathers taught me. negating means to have sex and produce.
Genesis and Matthew chapter one is and this is the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the son of Abraham, and Abraham, we get Isaac we get him to have sex and produce and Isaac and Jacob had sex and produce and Jacob bigger Judas and his brother had sex and produced the kidneys to have sex and produce. So you say Jesus is the only begotten Son recorded and not made would have any meaning. It means what it says had sex and produced
Doesn't mean that that's what you're saying. So, the Quran ticks from exception to that. Now His Holiness, the Pope, has written this book
240 pages, he has used the Bible 209 times, there are 209 quotations, I counted them.
Out of that there is one john 316, which every Christian knows, For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever shall believe in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. Every Christian missionary, you can do without that, john 316, john 316, His Holiness, the Pope has used john 316, seven times in this book.
Start at 20, page 54, page 5556. JOHN 316. And every time seven times out of seven, the word becomes eliminated. His Holiness, the Pope, the Vicar of Christ on earth. He has eliminated the word Bugatti from his vocabulary.
I'm telling you, I'm sitting here, getting things done. I make people to do things is the Almighty. He sets up everybody to help me in my work. If it is his work is helping. He's helping me I can see how those are being opened up for me.
So I'm Catholic now.
This is in your, in your Roman Catholic Bible? Is there in the King James version is there but His Holiness seven times out of seven?
Has he forgotten it?
What Why, why? Why did he take the word out? You tell me. I said, The reason is, I'm telling you, because
he is the Vicar of Christ is the mouthpiece of Jesus is the second person of the Trinity. He informed him, I'm just talking
loudly, I said, you see, he said, my father doesn't like that.
The world's best seller in four countries, within publication within days, it can the world's best seller in four countries. And the word of God is eliminated from the English version, and from the Italian version. And every version that would be cotton is eliminated for who?
You want it. Catholics says, No, you protesters. Do you want that? He says no. Who wants it as I wanted, I want the word to be taken out. And he took it out for who?
For who? For me, for Islam.
So I said you're coming here, it'll come when the inshallah, that when he gets a direct revelation from God or themselves they come except will Baba pop and make all your people to accept Islam and it can happen. Because I still believe miracles can happen. That could be termed as blessing, Mr. Christian.
Where do you see the future? In South Africa, specifically between Islam and Christianity? No, I think you see, you see, you see Islam, prevailing in South Africa and Christianity dying? Or do you see I see that? You see because the African by nature is almost never in his in his mentality. You're talking about the Father, Son, Holy Ghost, he is bleeding whatever the white man told him. But now when I'm talking to the African,
I'm taking back to the reading of his forefathers.
As you Zulus, what do you call God Almighty in your language?
I'm asking an old Zulu. What is his
sir, names and we had
that he is a killer and Holy Spirit. Agha sallyann tawanda he does not make it and not be gotten 14
and there's nothing like unto him.
That is a real God. That is that is the God of the Quran.
Have you been reading Christ? What is that? Never heard of the word Quran? But he's telling me what my Quran says.
Right? You are a Muslim, but not the white bus came along and took you off to make it. Crystal. Jesus Christ.
It's all one of the staple to the Jewish girl 2000 years ago, circumcised on the eighth day?
He's you're gonna say john
says that. This is your God. I said Hulu TV is written in the Bible. But he says he pelita his issue is he really took about seven or eight days old, he was circumcised, but on
so and they named him Jesus. When he was in his mother's womb.
He was in his mother's womb.
Who is Jesus Jesus who is Jesus? Is God in the garden Son of God. So he says when Nina said he was in his mother's womb said
that how did you come up from there?
Seems like you admit it's a hassle and explain to me how out of a moon, can you take on it?
If you're in those 2000 years ago, and you were helping Marian and she was giving the child, can you for 1 million think that that's your brother's or Jehovah, that helpless little creature coming out of his mother's womb with all the food and the lubrication, which made his Mother India for 40 days, the Bible says, Is your god that You are Jehovah that you Apollo, Apollo
told us that. So who gave you this break the white man Who gave you this brain, the white man
a query about you and your child in this table to choose circumcised and at your God.
It's a natural religion as African is at zero says
the religion with the African except is a religion which best suits his needs, and that religion. Everyone has the right to speak on the subject says Islam. Unfortunately, we haven't really made a statue yet. The Muslims have made a statue.
We haven't really made a statue yet. But I want to make up the T cell to get started.
Thank you very much.
Let you see the two as the destiny of Islam as the as the Christian. The destiny of mankind is Christianity that everybody expects in every knee will bow before him with the Submit Order, which is I said that he is your God and is your Savior. That is what the Christian ideas. You're in the hole.
But he's the one the three in one is one God.
telling him, I said the only problem between us real problem is this divinity of Christ.
As you show me in your Bible,
anyway, in any Bible, where Jesus says says I am God, or where he says worship me.
As if you understand my English, as Jesus says,
says, I am God. When he says worship me. Any version of the Bible. You show me and I will accept I'll be baptized tomorrow. That was yesterday. Tomorrow morning. You can take me wherever you like and baptize me.
There are three guys all visionaries.
Show me in your Bible man where Jesus says I'm God where he says worship me. That's simple as that.
So it says, You see, he opened up john chapter one, verse one.
He said, Hey, listen, I don't have to read I can tell you what it says. It says In the beginning was the Word and the Word was God.
Who's talking? Who's talking?
And that happens with this Bible here.
And it says, You see this is what the Bible
innovation verses in the Bible between everyone that Jesus took suppose.
Yes. I said no, that is black.
Look who put that black and red who did it. The Muslim did that. You Christian 32 scholars have the highest eminence, backed by 50 cooperating denominations. You got this Bible together,
including the Roman Catholics.
And the reason the whole lot of you got together and said, This is what Jesus supposed to have said.
And this is what
and it's not somebody else's.
So it's in black. I'm telling you very sad. Even that what he was quoting, In the beginning was the Word and the Word was God and the Word. What does it mean? I submit, he says, I am called over he says worship, because my salvation depends upon that. And you're also your solution depends on believing that Jesus is God. My salvation depends upon denying that. Not trying to be funny
to deny that. But for that, I'm not trying to be unreasonable, as you showed me in your book with Jesus is God wishy
washy was no the man will never lie. I can't believe that he will lie. He said, his God is God.
Yours is worship me. I say he's entitled to worship. So this is
on the contrary, he says my father,
my father isn't Oh, he said, I can have my own money. As a hero. I judge and my judgment is righteous because I seek not my own will or the will of Him that sent me that's his greatness.
This is greatness. Whatever God wants him to do is referred to as last most critical moment of his life. He goes to the garden and gets me. He tells his disciples Wait and watch. And he goes a little further. And he falls on his face. And he prays to God said, Oh, my father, if it'd be possible, let this capacity, but not as I will, but
I want you to save me. But if you must do, you want to take my life, for whatever your reason I prefer to do.
That is submission to God's will, that won't work for that in Islam is Muslim, Muslim, one was submitted his Jesus was a Muslim, he submitted his will to the will of God, I want you to save in my Lord. But if you think it's better than my life be given, am prepared to give it not as I will. But as
so he said he was a Muslim, Jesus was a Muslim. He was a Muslim, submit to the will of God not following home. remodeling bought 600. Home Again, this is the same Islam. Jesus was a Muslim, he taught us to worship God. So come, come, come, I'll teach you how to pray, pray like this. And he gave you the words like a little baby, putting the words in your mouth.
Heaven, hallowed be thy name, thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth, as it is in heaven.
our Father in heaven. He's talking to the disciples. And among them was Judas, the traitor was there. Peter, the guy who a person using for him three times was there, that there wasn't the scenes were there. And he's telling our father, which had yours and mine, including Judas is the father of everybody.
Worship Him, the Father in heaven. But you wish I mean, Jesus
said what he said, he told you the devil, did he tell you to worship Him? Is it worship him the father never and worship like this, and he put the words in your mouth. And still you won't, you won't articulate
So I want to talk
and I'm telling here, some Catholics game. I said, I gave you 10,000 times
to get this up early, to have a dialogue with me in Kings Park, I will organize that meeting. Again 30 40,000 people at Kings Park in the
movie should be allowed to speak or not.
I want him to speak for an hour. And I speak from now on the same topic. Whatever it is, you choose a topic.
You can get
a writing in the newspapers again and again, as it is
you must have a dialogue with the Muslims. I'm quoting from his book.
wherever he goes, he goes to talk he said you must have a dialogue with the Muslims. We need to Kenyans we must have a dialogue with the Muslims, when you will be Nigeria is a must have a dialogue with the Muslim. Do you know that wherever he goes, he said he must have a dialogue with the Muslims. Right? Let's have a dialogue.
Stop. You don't get a single question. I invite a bishop early in this Bishop Napier
Roman Catholic bishop.
Come on, let's have a dialogue. And you get 40,000 people at my expense. I can get 40,000 people to come and listen to you. And maybe a CBC T will also cover it. So to the 5 million people watching
at my expense.
And the Christians are terrified.
They're terrified. What
have you done? My voice is louder. Most people that you interview, but that's my nature.
I'm not trying to
make it sound like that.
I want to call
Mr. Dida could I could I ask you a favor? If we could take could we take one or two shots longer than what you had to stop him?