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Ahmed Deedat

Channel: Ahmed Deedat

Episode Notes

Episode Transcript

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Good afternoon,

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are under is very great today, we have had almost as a miracle, you might say, come across the path of freely speaking.

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Mr. Ahmed de.is, very famous in his own world. And if you don't already know him, I hope he will soon be very famous in yours. He is a Muslim, his title of the lectures that he is going to do, and the not really debates but the discussions with people here in Geneva, are Christianity and Islam, Christ in Islam,

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and the prophet of Islam and the Bible.

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Now, we are doing this interview it is both filmed, and it is on audiotape. We are doing this on the 16th of March 1987, for any information or dating that you might want to know, before it or after it. And the the events that will bring Mr. D closer to you than this interview, are going to be on Tuesday the 17th of March 1987 at the university in Geneva, on Wednesday, the 18th of March in unit one at the Allah be 106 and the prophet of Islam and the Bible Thursday, the 19th of March at 8pm unit one Hall be 106. So that having that out of the way, because I know the the interest that you will show to this. Let me then welcome with a very warm spiritual greeting our friend, Ahmed deedat.

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Thank you very much. Now, of course, when I tell the people where you're from, it's going to be a big shock. And they think we're going to talk politics. Mr. De Dodd is from South Africa. Now we are not going to dwell on that subject in politics really today. But I do think for our beginning we'd like to know what brought you to South Africa. And how was your religious background developed in that country? Yes, ma'am. I was born in India. And in 19 127, my father who had proceeded to South Africa, he called me so that I can obtain better education and better means of livelihood. And since 1927, up to date, most of my life I spent in South Africa.

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And you're, how many Muslims are there in South Africa? We are about half a million Muslims. They're about half of these half a million. They originated in the Far East, and the Far East meaning Indonesia and Malaysia, and the other half originated in the indo Pakistan subcontinent. This is about the half a million Muslims. It's a quarter million from the far east and quarter million from the would you say India, Pakistan. Now, Mr. De dot? I understand that when you talk about people like Bishop mokwena, who represents four and a half million black Christians, you talk about Bishop Barnabas. No, no, not Bishop tutu, the bishop who has the 3 million people in eastern

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Zion Christian church, and then you have all of the churches represented by the World Council of Churches. Then you have the white Afrikaner church, right, those on the far right, then you have Afrikaner churches to the center and to the left. You have every other kind of religion, I know some metaphysis Where do your Muslims fit into all of that potpourri of religious feeling? You see, not the Muslims, he stands out in this, that his religion makes him opposed to apartheid. We are artificially creating standards, false standards of judging people, because the only standard Muslim believes that God accepts is your behavior. The Quran tells us

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in all mankind, in documenta karimunjawa, so most certainly, he has made you all have a single pair, a male and a female, which are knocking Chewbacca, and he says he was made you into nations and tribes purpose behind it, it says Lita RFO, that he may recognize one another. This Mr. JOHN is a Frenchman. This Mr. JOHN is a Swiss this Mr. JOHN is for the purpose of recognition, these are convenient labels. And the only valid standard of jetting what are the is the Quran says in academic in the light. So most certainly, the noblest in the sight of God is He Who is the best in conduct, not black or white, not rich or poor, but the best in conduct. This is the standard and the

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standards by which we are being jailed in South Africa is totally opposed to our standards. Now, last question on that subject, is there any one of

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religious groups anywhere on either side of any color line that has members of it that are all perfect, that are not showing any form of discrimination. Perfect is a silly word that are not showing any form of discrimination or not being political in a bad way about their things. Has anyone found the real truth of the truth? Well, I can't seem to see a single church or denomination, that, you know, practices altruistically, you know, these whose standards they have what you would say, conveniently at times, the broadcast that this gets he is now open to all races at all services. But for 300 years they didn't do that is out of certain field.

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Reasons best known to themselves for for political ends, that the African, the black man is becoming conscious, becoming more and more aware about these discriminations by the churches themselves.

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The churches themselves are those who claim to be very broad minded, they have been discovering themselves. For example, 300 years, we never had a black Bishop in the country, not Anglican, not Roman Catholic. But now all of a sudden you have Bishop tutu, you know, he's an Anglican Bishop, Bishop, Zulu Zulu Bishop, how did you come about for 300 years you can produce one? So no, I think there are other reasons then altruistically religious standards by which they are working, and anybody can go to a mosque on and ask anybody black but there is no discrimination whatsoever. Even today, with all the people talking about the church be Muslim,

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or non Muslim, you don't have to be in the mosque, the mosque that I am one of the guides in the in the mosque in Durban. And we get about more than 30,000 tourists a month. You know, the Jews and the Christians. There are people coming from all over the world they come along. And one of the most important places that people go visit in Durban is the mosque, the largest Masada,

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south of the equator, happens to be in Durban. And these people come along and they are most welcome. You know, whether they are Christians or the Jews or the atheists or agnostics, everybody's welcome. And we welcome them. And we explain to them what goes on. And we give the free literature on Islam. And they go Happy, happy, happier. It makes us happy to welcome everybody. Now, Mr. Ahmed deedat, we have explored your background in South Africa, where you've come from. And we are now very interested in the fact that I have heard that you are one of the most

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advanced, deepest, best, what is the adjective that you know as much about the Christian religion and Bible and as much about Judaism as you do about Islam, and that your your message is not to be divisive. But to point out what's good. Let me just ask you speak to us. Where do you find this healing force? You see, our belief is that the, the Jews, the Christians and the Muslims, you know, but in the origin, these three religions are Semitic religions, and they have a common background. In father Abraham. The Jew respects father Abraham, the Christian respects them and the Muslim respects him and we all claim a common heritage, coming from father Abraham, and I believe that it

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is the same religion. You see whether you call it Judaism, Christianity, or Islam. To me, these are not three separate religions. It is the same religion on different levels. The titles were given by men with regard to the term Judaism, because I've been asking Jews, Jewish men and men, that this word Judaism, is it to be found in the Torah? This is known as is it in your Talmud? He says, No. Is it in your misma? It says no. And so we need to get it. Most of them are puzzled with the word Judaism originated, as Christianity. Is this in the Bible? In the Bible? Does it speak that the religion played by Jesus Christ was Christianity? No

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way this term confirm.

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The very first time the word Christian was used. We read in the New Testament was at Antioch. When the enemies of the followers of Jesus disparagingly they pointed to them saying that these are Christians, meaning the worshipers of Christ, but Christ never heard the word Christian. And Christ never heard the word Christianity. And I grew up yawn and I said, Christ never heard the word Christ in his lifetime.

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Didn't he say, I am the father or one and therefore doesn't that mean in Judaism, me talking about this? But doesn't that mean that if I and the Father are One that that

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Spirit is imminent in me, and that therefore he would be the Christ or he that he would acknowledge himself as being the Christ that were foreseen by the Jews. Am I doing mother?

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Christ? Do you see the term Christ in confirm the word Messiah, the Hebrew word Messiah, the Hebrew word Messiah, Arabic mercy, is the same word, same root for going back to the word, Messiah, in Hebrew and Arabic, which means one who is anointed.

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Over massage, priests and kings were invented in consecration to the offices, like a coronation ceremony, or like a governing ceremony. So when a person was officially appointed to a certain status, he was the Messiah, the Anointed One Hebrew word Messiah, translated,

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translated into

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Greek, pretty sparse, from with the luck of the US and left you with Christ.

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Then what is Christ? In Islam? Yes. In Islam, we accept that Jesus was the Christ, meaning he was the one that was promised by God Almighty to come to the Jews and reformed the Jews. Now, when he came, he claimed that he was the Messiah,

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from which we get the word, Christ through the word response. And from this again, we get the word Christianity. But the word Christ was never heard by Jesus in his lifetime, because this is a Greek word. He said, I am the Messiah.

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He didn't say I am the Christ in Greek, because he's talking to the Jews, a Jewish Prophet, come to Jews speaking that Jewish language, Hebrew or Aramaic aramith. Yes. So while he's speaking, he's taking in his own languages that I am the Messiah, the Anointed One, the chosen one, but his people didn't recognize him. They insinuated that he was an imposter. And as such, they had him hanging on the cross, the Muslim attitude is that he was a true messenger of God, and he was the Messiah. And more than that, that he was born miraculously, without any major intervention, and that he gave life to the dead by God's permission, and he was born blind, and the lepers by God's permission. So we

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are going further than the Jews in the acceptance of Jesus. Do you have any Jewish friends? Yes, do I have? And I also reasoned with them? Are you sure you have Jewish?

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I worked with Jews for a number of years, and we had fantastic relationships. And I have addressed Jewish audiences, and they seem to respond beautifully, you know, to my messages. Okay. So Christ in Islam, you recognize him? The Jews do not they are still waiting that Messiah? And then where does your prophet sir, the prophet of Islam and the Bible come in? Yes. You see, Mohammed came 600 days after Jesus, Jesus the Christ, 600 years after God Almighty appointed him. And now there was a dispute going on, in his own environment, between the Jews and the Christians with regards to the personality of Jesus. What was his 10? What would be the stance of his followers? So he clarifies

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the position for us with regards to Jesus, that he was one of the mightiest messengers of God. He was the Messiah, he was born miraculously, but he was not God in human form. He is not God incarnate, and he is not the Begotten Son of God. How can you tell that from the Bible?

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The Bible also tells us the very same thing I mean, in my reading of the Christian Bible, No way. No way does Jesus ever say, at any time, I am God, or worship me. No way. There is not a single Bible, among the many versions, there is not a single statement and equivocal statement, anyway, in any Bible. But on the contrary, like you had mentioned a few minutes back about

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my father I one, not people when they read that, the Christian now he is, as a program, we are all programmed, there is no doubt about that. But we must be big enough to say, let's see if you can reprogram me. Now, the Christian has been programmed to think that when he said, I am a father of one, which meant that he was claiming divinity, that He is God Himself. He says No, he didn't mean in that sense, though, the Jews, you know, according to the Christian scriptures, they took exception to that statement of his but he explains, is that is it not written in your law? I said, We are gods, that people are even called gods in the Scriptures, and you take no, you find no fault

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with that. Why are you taking exception to me when I say I'm the son of God? So in other words, no, he was speaking in the sense that God Almighty and

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him in purpose, they are the same, not in omnipotence and omniscience, or in any other spiritual matters, he, as he says, is that as as my, as my father is greater than I, so my father is greater than or is that I can have my own self do nothing. God can do everything. He knows everything, he says, of that day, in the last day, know what, no man, no, not the angels, not the Son of the Father in heaven. No way does he claim equality with God is always a subordinate position. But now, people this statements are taken to mean out of context, and a religion has been made out of it.

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What about Mohammed? Mohammed is?

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No, he is the messenger of a messenger. Jesus was also a messenger, but he was somebody that the Jews were waiting for, to liberate them from the Roman bondage to freedom. He had come to do a spiritual job of work. As he is a total Pilate, Pontius Pilate, this is my kingdom is not of this world. In other words, mine is a spiritual kingdom. I want to elevate these people spiritually, the people of the time naturally being under bondage, under Roman rule, they want a somebody a physical liberated, making the masters of the world. So the man was not prepared to do that. So the Jews are the people they had rejected him. But we feel that he was the Messiah that was promised to the Jews.

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But if, if Muslims have Mohammed, and the Christians have Jesus, and the Jews don't have anybody yet, is that right? No, there Moses and the prophets well, but I mean, they don't have a Latter Day they there's go way, way back. Because we feel that they missed the bus with regards to Jesus.

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But Jesus was the Messiah. But now the Jews have given up all hope of the Messiah, they don't talk about the Messiah anymore. They don't in their hearts, I bet they don't. Because they said, No look, we now need, they will take matters into our own hands, they wanted the Messiah to come and do a job for them. And practical philosophy they applied to the hurts is enough, we will get what the Messiah is supposed to do. And they did it 1948 that's why

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we have the hands out of the Messiah hand, and they established the State of Israel.

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For the first and only time that I was in Israel, I was in a dining room by myself, and I didn't know anything about the holy days, I didn't know anything about the customs. And I was finishing my supper, and I heard kind of a little a scene. And when I looked over, and I saw some men, a softly singing, I honestly thought they were drunk. And I was sort of embarrassed. And then as the sound went around the room, this beautiful, beautiful sound came in these deep voices, that I realized that they all had little books, and that they were singing, and giving thanks at the end of a meal, and the tears came to my eyes, it was so beautiful. And I felt the spirit. so strongly, I can't

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describe to you how strongly I felt that. And I, I truly felt that I was linked. I didn't know what they were singing. I didn't know anything about it. But I knew that the presence of the Spirit was there. And that's what I call the spirit that I felt when I first saw you that same spirit because you have a radiant face, you know? No, you do. And you have the you don't have all those worry lines and those lines that have anguish that people that don't know God. And so I feel that in you, I felt it in them and I hope it is observed in a tiny bit in myself and that's to me, what's that unity? Is that called? Is that the Christ? Is that spirit is that did Mohammed have a word for it? What is

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that? I think it is to be in tune with God. See, if we are trying to do fulfilled the plan of God His word, automatically, I feel that this spirit permeates in the person, though you might carry what I would say wrong labels. You know, we can have wrong labels put onto ourselves, because we think maybe

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if I put this label is the right one or that one, but I think it's not the label. It is this spirit Huck through the Quran says Allah.

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Allah

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says, truth comes from God alone. So be not be of those who doubt there is only one truth and that truth is one God. Whatever God says is true. Once you are in tune with that, you vibrate on his wavelength.

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You don't become gods, but you are on this same vibration as he is his vibration. Now, Mr. de da How can you explain sir in your with your deep knowledge of all of the religious literature, how can you explain that people from your religion, people from Christianity, people from Israel, people from every other religion, and especially

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Those with no religion at all who deny God, that we're all out there cheerfully slaughtering each other every single day from morning until night. And sometimes they stay up all night to get the job done.

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God and everybody's programming, you see, we all can get programmed into any types of attitudes. I mean, we take German Hitler, Germany, Germany, one of the most cultured nations in Europe. Is it possible that they could have incinerated 6 million Jews under Hitler?

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obvious answer is no. How can a nation so culture do anything like that, but programming, we all can get brainwashed.

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And I say whether Muslim, Hindu or whatever, you know, titles you give to yourself, we all can be programmed into right and wrong. But to look at the problem objectively is very difficult to get rid of a prejudice as Roger bacon, he said, it is easier for a man to burn down his own house than to get rid of his prejudices, very true with a Muslim Christian Jew, it applies to all but if he can become big enough to say, Now, let us see what have you got?

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What is truth and various truth? Let us have some objective standards of judging. Not what I want to believe or what you want to believe.

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Let us see, and if there is a document and we believe that there is a document which we say the Holy Quran, when you open this book,

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and if you went in didn't know that you were reading the Quran, if you came across pieces of this writings in English, like the birth of Jesus, for example, from the Quran.

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And I have shown this to Christians, Orthodox Christian born again Christians, so just have a look at this. The birth of Jesus in the Quran. It says why is Carla tell Malika Maryam says, Behold, the angel said or marry in Allah has the five key or the hierarchy Mustapha kehlani, Salah mean that God Almighty has chosen the and purified the chosen the above the women of all nations. So when you read words like this in English without seeing the Arabic text, in it, that portion, I said, if I read further to you, and if I read it or to if you read this on a piece of paper lying around in 100 years, in 1000 years, you'll never guess you're reading the Quran. Now, Christian, the Christian, I

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said, you would think that maybe this is the Roman Catholic version of the Bible, if you haven't seen one, maybe this is the Greek Orthodox version of the Bible, which you might not have seen one. Maybe this is the New World Translation of the Bible by the Jehovah's Witnesses, if you haven't seen one and on and on, but you'll never guess you read in the Quran, why? It is so close to your heart. See, what was being said is so close, that Jesus is the Messiah, he was born miraculously, he gave life to the dead by God's permission. He was born blind in the lepers by God's permission. Now, it's so close to your heart that it is like your own book. But and that is with regard to any message any

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way you read it as if there is somebody talking to you. I said that somebody is God, objectively, you can read and as if this message is being spoken to your heart direct.

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But now what happens before you touch the book, a prejudice has already been created. In your heart and mind. This is something that might burn you.

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Destroy, you know, I think the western mind says that's Khomeini and that's

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it, they just did it. But even before Khomeini see I have sometimes Orthodox Christians coming along, there was one young man who was a Roman Catholic. He came for some other purposes. Then chatting, chatting, I took a liking to the man has a look, I'd like to present you with this Quran. And he was offering in some fire.

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He can have that as completed and see. And

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it took me a long time to persuade him to take the book, as it read it see what it has to say. And after reading it. He was a changed man, because he didn't expect you know what he's seeing. Another elderly gentleman represented in

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this holy book. And after some time, I phoned him up. I said, Now, how's your progress? No, I haven't read it yet. Again, another time, so I haven't had time to go to it yet.

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Three or four times I found the man. Then he says, Look, man, I've been reading all along. But, you know, I can't agree with the book. And I'm told the chain now.

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This is the problem. I'm too old to change. But he's reading it all alone, and he can't help agree with every principle that is enunciated. It is coming from the source of all truth. We say from God. And if you without prejudice mind, if you open the book, you see what it has to do, it must change VEDA Jain. Did God choose Mohammed

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Did Mohammed choose God to come? I mean, did he got him or which one came is he we believe that God chose Mohammed. He chooses his messengers, God Almighty, He chooses messengers. And these choosing are not of our standards like he chose Moses is a man who was the only gift from the law, yet killed an Egyptian.

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Secondly, he was a cetera, is just data who got chosen. We believe that God chose him to be his mouthpiece. He chose Jesus, a person without the genealogy. We believe he was born miraculously, the Christians he was born with accuracy. So where is his father, a man without a father that he can point to? Now you got goes into this and I like that. And as he says, of poor background, he says the foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have missed, but the Son of Man hasn't got a place to rest his head. He goes into such a man. Why that's his business. Then he chooses Muhammad, a man was absolutely illiterate. A person who didn't know how to read or write a man who couldn't sign his own

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name.

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And he goes and chooses a man like that, naturally more learned different futures. But not that one man, illiterate men, he brought about a book, this book, which in its material magnitude, it outshines any author of the Holy Bible. For example, the Holy Bible consists of 66 books,

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of the Protestant Bible, the 73 books of the Roman Catholics.

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The 66 books are authored by 40 different persons. And the most voluminous writer of all these 44 uS 40 writers is Paul, he wrote 14 of the 27 books, more than 50% of the books of the New Testament, were written by Paul. But when you take that it's a little thing like this was 14 books, sometimes half a page, one page is a book.

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This is if this is Muhammad's job, it's a one man job.

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One man job and illiterate man, he outshines every author that you can think of, of the Scriptures. Senate Where did he get it? He says, is given to me by inspiration. He takes no credit for it. And when you look at it, you find he's not talking about himself at all did he dictated he did it as he was moved, inspired, indicated it was preserved in his lifetime, he was dictating to people that they shut it down, and have it written to him again. And he is to confirm that right? And this is now part of the Scripture, part of the Scripture, during the 23 years of his prophetic life, whatever was given is now contained in this volume, called the Holy Quran.

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Then why do you think that a man, you can understand why God would choose to illiterate because it is our own intellect so often and our own enraptured with our own wisdom, and everything we've learned and our own personality, that keeps us from listening to that inner voice, and it's easy to think that God would say, you know, have enough of that and choose a person who is illiterate,

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who is not illiterate, because if you are with the spirit read, all right. Now, then, the thing I still don't understand, is that starting from all those prophets, that we who follow and each one who professes to follow this prophet, or that Prophet, or none, but we kill, and we mean, and we lie. And if I must say, even when you peek into the whole issue of human rights on Earth, of any issue, you can imagine the hypocrisy, the lying, cheating, stealing all of these things that I see that as a mother,

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as somebody, sometimes I faced despair, how can we do that with all those profits have income? And you've got 12 minutes to answer that, and save the world? You see, this is the nature of man, he made us he gave us limited Free Will God made us he gave us limited free will. And he gave us guidance. He showed us the straight from the crooked path, how we are to distinguish between the two. But human prejudice keeps on coming in. And humanity keeps on coming in, like Cain, killing a brother, killing brother. In the Holy Quran, an allegory is given about the creation of man. It says, it says, God says to the angels is in the jar even fill out the halifa. So most certainly, I

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want to create my wife Jared or my wife's wife, my representative.

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So the angels saying that this machine that God was making with free will and emotions will come into conflict and create mischief and shed blood. So they say

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It's allegorically they tell God is

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Adelphi, Harmon You see, do we have as we put, Dima? Is it? Are you going to create one who's going to make Mr. Fincher blood?

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What does God say to that? He doesn't say no, this man will be perfect in my image, and he will be godly. And he will pray five times a day or 20 times a day and will be charitable and self sacrificing nothing of the kind. He says Carla in the Alamo marathon. So what I knew about this fellow you don't know. In other words, what you say it's true, that he is a maker of mischief and shelter of blood. But there is something else in him with the angels as automatons, you know, they carry out God's will and plan his bidding, but they don't understand the intricacies of the mind of man, that this human being is capable of self sacrifice. But can they understand this, this, this

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machine, what it can do like that? happening a little while back in Britain, there was a heavy storm at sea, and a dog got washed away into the sea. And one policeman who was on duty nearby, He dived in to rescue the dog, and he was in trouble. So another policeman went along, to help him out. And in turn one after another seven policemen round to say one dog that can be injured. Understand that? No, in other words that God Almighty is he has given us this opportunity to be godlike.

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And he's given you that freedom.

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Without that freedom, we will be all robots. If you prefer to be robots, or whatever you could have if you wanted to make a robot. He said he's got enough angels, angels to do his bidding. But he wanted men voluntary to carry out his bidding, and there are people men pandemics. What did Mohammed say about forgiveness and salvation, and we're going to ask that right after this break.

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You see, the idea that the Christian has is that men was born in sin. He says, the sin the original sin, committed by Adam and Eve inherited by his children, and somebody has to pay for that, to rectify the situation, that the Muslim believe is that they did make a mistake, but they paid fully for whatever they had done. And as such, every human child that is born into the world is born pure is born sinless. Whether the child is born in the home of a Jew, a Christian or Hindu and atheists are agnostic, that child dies before the age of discussion, that child according to us goes to heaven. No questions asked. It is after reaching the age of discussion, that that person is made

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responsible for his or her actions. So sin is not inherited. Sin is an acquisition, forgiveness when we make mistakes, he said again, you pay for your own sins. And forgiveness is is that you ask God sincerely, you repent for what you have done and God forgives, because he is we believe is that merciful God, he is not like Shylock one thing is pile of flesh. What is his motive? his motive is that if you do right, if you make an effort, it is acceptable in His sight. He does not need the blood of an animal, or that of a human being, to wash away your sins. And this is exactly as the Bible teaches. As we learn from the book of Ezekiel, it says, the soul that sinneth it shall die,

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whoever sins parishes, pays the price, the son shall not be the iniquity of the Father, meaning the father Adam, if he sinned, you do not have to carry his, you don't have to pay for his guides his sins, neither show the cent pay for the interview of the Father, or the father, pay the iniquity of the Son, the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, whatever good thing the good Mendez, he gets his fruits, his benefits his reward, and and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. So whatever the evil monger does, he gets punished for that. And the way of salvation is, it tells us very, very briefly very, very succinctly, it says, but if the wicked will turn, repent, come back

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from all the sins that he has committed, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die, not perish. That is salvation in Islam, you do the will and pain of God, to the best of your ability. And whatever your shortcomings, you apologize before the Lord and He is forgiving, he can forgive you a million times over. If you approach him sincerely, he does not need the blood of a man or a man God or of animals to go to, to pay for yourself. You know, Mr. deedat, you have some interesting recent history that I would like to cover if I may, because I think it's really very germane to everything we're talking about. You just came from the United States. And you

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made a tour there and some very interesting things happen to you. Why don't you tell us about who with whom you discussed and what happens? You see that is it man

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I think it's a giant today among in the Christian world, the missionary, the preachers, the straggler. Yes, Jimmy Swaggart is a well known Bible believing Christian with a TV ministry as well as another one who is very famous in America. He is boasting that he's appeared on 1000 TV stations around the world in 140 different countries, his daily budget is a million dollars a day, that's almost as big as

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million dollars a day. And somehow, you know, he's in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. And there's a university, the town has grown around the university, Louisiana University, and they have some Muslim students with whom they have been having a little kind of arguments and debates with regard in his ministry. So he had a debate with some Muslim ones. And he had a debate with another Muslim once. And for the third time, they called me over from South Africa to debate with Jimmy Swaggart. And

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I think from the Muslim point of view, it went off fantastically well, in the debate, as well as the question and answers that followed. You know, we made two separate videotapes of that debate. This is what we call v 33.

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Give me so I got an eye and Question and Answer lasting for about two hours.

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And I think was there a winner and a loser? Or when did you remain friends? Was it friendly? or How did it come out? As far as the winning and losing is concerned, you'd leave it to the audience, leave it to God.

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But the audience also will be able to see for themselves, you know, where truth is weighed heavily on which side, but

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the relationship was exceptionally good. from the word go. When we finished off, we embrace one another. And he invited me home for lunch. That was something fantastic. But what about the rest of the people of the Christian faith? There again, you see on the screen, that as soon as the debate was finished, the people were shocked. They couldn't even speak to one another. You watch them, you know, usually as soon as the thing is over, you know, you start chatting, nothing at all, as if they all had seen a ghost.

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So it proves something. You see it was something beyond the expectation that a Muslim can come forward and speak about the Bible, quote, the Bible more than the preacher can. The everything he spoke, I have proved it from the book, the book, the book, the book, this is what the Bible says, This is what the Bible says, No, you know, there was I was able to use the Holy Bible against the bible thumper. You know what, a Bible teacher, he's an expert on the subject, but he found that he was well most Christians do that to each other, I'm sorry to say but I mean, we got about you know, 50 different interpretations of that Bible just in one Pew on Sunday and when they all get at it

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about what they end of the word set on the end of the parchment and when everybody lines up and then they separate churches because of one this are one that I mean, I'm not saying that's wrong, because I believe everyone has the right to do what he wants. I'm saying that it's not exclusive to Christianity because there are so many sex it with the Muslims and in Judaism, you got the the highs and the lows and the mediums and the in betweens and the out to the right and the out to the left and the politics and the nobody.

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Okay, look, we got three minutes, I gotta hold you to this. Now, in three minutes, we got to cover the whole rest of the world and find universal peace. You're ready. Okay. First thing is didn't somebody refuse to debate with you at all, and they wouldn't even see you and wouldn't let you have any you see very playing very, very hard Billingham? Yeah, he won't touch me He won't come anywhere near me. Billingham. Then we try Gina Jimmy's. Not Jerry Falwell. Then we play the pat robertson. And each and every one of them this Hindu fighting shy. Pat Robinson doesn't have a Muslim constituency for running for president.

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But now, what it is now, you see, we say Islam has the answers to all your problems. Hmm.

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I was telling them in America, I said, Look, Jimmy Swaggart has written some different books, a book on insist on homosexuality on surplus room, I'm sorry, the light on surplus on pornography, and so on and so on. But I said none of the answers alcoholism. So the answers to all your problems are contained in the book The Quran, which gives you clear cut answers to all your problems. And this man Muhammad we say is the spirit of truth with Jesus promised you before he patted his head, I have yet many things to say unto you, but you cannot bear them now how beat when he the spirit of truth has come, He will guide you through it or he shall not speak for himself. Now he said that spirit of

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truth.

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And he has given you guidance it is for the world to take for his own benefit. Now I cut my own throat here because I was going to ask him that hard

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Question about the parables of the vineyard. And how he was gonna explain that because the Muslims, you know, they don't drink alcohol and yet that's in the Bible and everything and I couldn't. So you have to go asking yourself at one of these three meetings, which are Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday 1718 19th of March at you need to. And I would also like to say, I'm still a Christian after this program. I but I still feel spirit. And not only do I feel it here, but I feel it with you, because what you have given and what you send back to me, and all of these lovely things, I know, we are united. I just know it. That's all and I love you all. And so Mr. De dup, you know, and really

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speaking, we have a, we have a tradition, which is the guest gets the last word usually if I could stop talking fast enough. And now it's your turn. And you have that time for your last message to the Bureau. I say to the people who are listening as salaam aleikum, which means please be under your this is a universal meeting of Muslims all over the world as salaam alaikum peace be unto you all. Thank you very much for coming

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and good night.