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Freely Speaking

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Ahmed Deedat

Channel: Ahmed Deedat

Episode Notes

Episode Transcript

© No part of this transcript may be copied or referenced or transmitted in any way whatsoever. Transcripts are auto-generated and thus will be be inaccurate. We are working on a system to allow volunteers to edit transcripts in a controlled system.


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Our faithful listeners to freely speaking will remember that we had the privilege a year or so ago of interviewing in Geneva, shake out harsh Ahmed deedat, who is president of the IPC I, that's the Islamic Propagation center International, in Durban, South Africa. And it was amazing for me, some of my Islamic friends in Geneva had called and said, you were coming. And I didn't know this existed. I did not know about you. And it was very interesting to have our first conversation together. So since time has passed, and I am now in Durban myself, I would like to bring our audience into your center, and hear you speak from your heart, about your center, Islam in general,

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and then we'll expand out. You're most welcome. Thank you very much for letting us come. So let's start about Durban and Islam. How did it come here?

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Muslims that touch the shores of South Southern South Africa, were Muslims who were brought here by the Dutch. Even the Dutch people conquered Indonesia.

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Those Muslims were fighting for the freedom. They were captured as prisoners of war. And they were shipped to the Cape of Good Hope, and sold to the white men as slaves. Then, when the British conquered Malaysia, those Malays Muslims were fighting for their freedom. They were also captured as prisoners of war. And they will also ship to the Cape of Good Hope, good hope for the white man and sold to the white man as slaves for 300 years. Those early Muslim first Muslims have touched the shores, and they have been under pressure from the Christians to christianize them. But after 300 years of hammering that group of people, they have become one of the most militant Muslim

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communities in the world that hammering into the softening them had heard them St.

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Now you see when you say they have become one of the most militant groups of Muslims, again, my Christian background forces me to ask militant towards whom and to what because if one, there's one thing that Christianity and Islam have in common, it's that everybody is fighting everybody everywhere. So who is militant to whom in Islam around here is not is the militancy is in his defense, because they were under pressure under attack. You see, the white man managed to change his names, surnames, they almost all these people are called Malays in this country today. Male Malays aha Malays, like Malaysia Malays, though they originated in Indonesia. And in Malaysia, they are all

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called Malays. Mm hmm. Now, that community of people, you see, because they were under pressure, the defense mechanism was also it was not as soft. They were militant, in the defense

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against the Christian missionaries. Yes. That that that type of psychology remained with them. That was the one group of Muslims. And another group of Muslims came from the indo Pakistan subcontinent that they came to this country because they were starving

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in India, so they came looking for a livelihood. So they settle down in mostly in Thailand, the Transvaal, and the Malays, mostly in the cape, because that's where they're taken. In the first instance. I see. So the white man managed to change the names of these people, they all carry Western names, like you'll find a Muslim name is the use of Hendrix. Abdullah fenter. So what is Fenton? What is country's? What is Smith? So this is these heroes, slave masters. They carry the names of the slave masters, exactly as in America, exactly the same thing. Yes, but not with this difference, that 300 years of hammering that the afro Americans received in America. It changed them

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all to Christianity. This 300 years at Emory in southern Africa, made them better Muslims than the Muslims at home.

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All right, then let me ask you a hard question right away and that is, if 300 years of Christians hammering at the Muslims didn't change them. Why would you fake that?

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300 years now of Muslims, hammering, hammering at Christians would change them.

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In other words, because the Islamic Propagation center is that not to spread Islam to the world, good to the world, including wisdom, Jews, Christian, and to all you expect Christians to resist for 300 years? No, you see no, if the right approach is there, you see, there is an approach, the approach of the Christian missionaries and the Christians there was a harsh approach, like what they did to the American Negroes in America, same type of treatment was given to the Muslims yet, but no one gave in because they had known somehow, they didn't have that type of background, religious background, to resist conversion, these people had

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the Malays, they had something basic knowledge about religion, which kept them together.

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Now, in our approach today, you see, we are using a technique

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of speaking to a people, the Jews and the Christians, according to their own background and experience. The methods that were used by the Christian missionaries was in the past, attacking Islam, attacking the Holy Prophet Muhammad attacking the Quran. And that didn't get her honey. But we are not attacking Jesus, or the Christian people, what we are saying is, we have we have an approach where we are calling the people says, Come, let us reason together. And in that, we say we want to show you from your own background and experience that it was about time that you look for a person who would give you a solution to all your problems, because we say that Jesus Christ before

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he parted, he told his disciples, He said, I have yet many things to say unto you, but you cannot pay them now. Meaning you haven't got the capacity. He had the knowledge, he had the solution to our problem for eternity, who Jesus Christ is the mighty, as a man of God, as a mighty messenger of God, as a Messiah, he had answers to all your problems, but the people to whom he was addressing, they were incapable of receiving that message. So he says, how he, when He, the Spirit of Truth is come, He will guide you into all truth. For he shall not speak for himself, but what you shall hear that shall he speak, and he shall declare unto you the things that are to come, he shall glorify Me. Now

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we Muslims, we are claiming that that spirit of truth, or that comforter, as prophesied by Jesus is Muhammad, and he has given me a solution to all your problems.

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Those solutions might not go down well, because we are all used to certain ways of living thinking. But if you sit and reason these are solution to your problems, whatever problem you have.

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In South Africa, the biggest problem we have is race. And throughout the world, that biggest problem of mankind is racism.

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And Islam not only speaks about the fatherhood of God and the Brotherhood of men, it gives you a solution to your problem, how to solve it, it lays out the system, whereas everybody else talks are the Word of God it is but one Lord, He created us all, and we are all his children. That is talk, but how to create that brotherhood.

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In Islam, we have a system.

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Now the system is, is a five times a day, the Muslim is made to come together

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in what is called Salah pray.

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When they gather together in a mosque.

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They use the same taps for ablution. They use the same towels for wiping the faces, and they stand shoulder to shoulder no gaps left between the rich and the poor, the black and the white or whatever, they all must stand shoulder to shoulder because the Holy Prophet Muhammad he said that when you stand up for prayer, you must not leave gaps for the devil to get in between you and your brother. Now the devil he was talking about was not the guy we see in the art gallery in Durban. If you go to the museum complex, you see there in the art gallery beautiful paintings by great artists. Among them, there is one huge painting of a beautiful woman with wings.

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And she's got a one and a half hormetic rent. Why do I want one one in our air has it and she's direct from the devil. In the picture. You can see she's direct the devil to go to hell. And you can see hell in the distance. And you see this devil with horns with sharp ears and a tail with about the hook with a really complex one. Firing himself and he is flying also towards hell.

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Not that if anybody saw will run for dear life. We flee for our life. So Mohammed wasn't talking about that. He was talking about you yourself. We ourselves, you know, I will

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Pride, our arrogance of riches, I am White is black, and I'm rich his book that devil must not be allowed to come in between you and your brother. So five times a day, the Muslims gather together potential shoulder, then in a bigger circle, on Fridays, more people gather from different districts and on occasional two or four festivals, what we call eat, one after the fasting season, and another one after two months and 10 days after that another big feast. Then when we get together in an open field, again, people wider group comes along together, then, once a year in Mecca, the whole Muslim community from all over the world, you know, the blond hair and blue eyed Turk, and the darkness

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called utopian Muslim, and the Chinese Muslim, and Muslims from all over the world together in the same pilgrims garb, which creates a type of brotherhood and unity, there is a system not only talking, but the system is laid out, which no other religious group of people have. They all talk, but there's no system of bringing people together. But still, if I may say, and we're engaged in an academic exercise, but Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, these are systems one way or the other, perhaps not as elaborate as Islam. Right? But they are systems of people coming together to worship what is one God with the exception of Hinduism, they have more. And yet, when you quoted the

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Bible you said and yet he Who comes after me, he the spirit of truth, the Spirit of Truth, okay? If you translate what Christians call the Holy Spirit, into the same thing that this is known as, in other words, a little bit towards the mystical idea, right? Then in the, the, the mystical idea of what he Who comes after me, if each one of us can practice our formal parts of the religion, but be inspired by that invisible and nameless, absolutely, there's no way one can, can explain, or the experience of having experienced the living presence of the Holy Spirit. Does that not go beyond your practice and my practice and the practice of our neighbor? And doesn't that denied us in a, in

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an invisible world toward this thing that you call Allah, and I call God. You see, it sounds really nice, beautiful, but mankind, he needs simple, straightforward directives. For example, now you are a good hearted person, you in your heart and mind might have no racial prejudice whatsoever. You can cultivate that. But then billions of the world, no matter how much you talk about, love thy neighbor as thyself. See the person as sincerely tenuously being programmed that that neighbor must be one like yourself belonging to your church. See, the wordings are identical. You said, love thy neighbor as thyself. Beautiful, who's your neighbor? So the African is trained? What actually happens is

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this. He said, No, as long as that other one is also an African and belonging to my church. He's not a Jehovah's Witness. He's not a southern advantage. He's not a Roman Catholic. So do he utters the words All right, but in his mind, he has made up the African is not my neighbor.

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That's how he taught for 300 years. I don't know now what will happen, but this is the programming. So what we need is simple directives. What does this Supreme Being this Holy Spirit tells you, in clear cut language, about races? How did the races come about? Who is better than the other? Is it white or black? Or Brown? The color the mixture? What who is the best? So there is not a net assist? Which gives an answer like the Islamic system gives you It says in the Holy Quran, it says the mass so all mankind, enough Allah

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so most certainly it is we were created you all have a male and a female common origin. Yes, was Allahu Shu Obama paella and It is we who have made you into nations and tribes, who God Almighty stocking, what for exactly the art of that you may recognize one another. This Mr. JOHN is an Englishman, that other Mr. JOHN is an Afrikaner this Mr. JOHN is a French man, this john is an Indian. These are convenient labels for recognizing people, says this holy book, the book of Islam, but we have a tendency to create our own false standards of judging. Despite all this to be made from we come from father Adam, you know, we are all his children. That is what we all say. Like,

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especially the Jews, the Christians and the Muslims, but in the

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hearts and minds. The man says, I'm a Jew, we are the chosen people, the rest of the world is going Gentiles unclean.

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The Christian also is the look. Yes, yes, we believe in the father word of men. But for 300 years, you ask the African, he doesn't consider the African as is equal, even growing into his church, the Indian belonging to his church is still not equal.

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And the Roman Catholic Church is claiming to be the most universal, Catholic, most universal. I have been living here in there, but on the same street as the cathedral, just around the corner here. And on that street as a young man, I used to watch the Corpus Christi procession every year. Yes, Corpus Christi in the body of Christ, and needs to come out from the cathedral walk through Cathedral road, I lived in number 40 Cathedral. And here in and year out, I watched.

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We had some like a killaby, like dating and the police. under the canopy and matching Yes, I can remember the more details on that, then as to see the whites, men, women and children, and behind them the colors, men, women and children behind them, the Indians, men, women and children, and behind them the Africans, men, women and children in variable element, no change. Here in Europe, the white men first then comes the color that's a mixture between black and white, then comes the Indian, then comes the African, and everybody knows this place. How did it happen? You are begin programmed. This is how it ought to be. See, the Indian is before the African and the colored is

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before the Indian and the white man is before all. Mr. Leader.

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I agree with what you say.

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In Islam, all men are brothers and everybody is equal. I'm going to accept that totally at face value, then I would like to ask you to speak if you will, to the following two points, number one, in that case, let's move to Afghanistan. And please tell me why all those Muslims are fighting each other in Afghanistan, in Russia and in Azerbaijan, and in the in the part of Iran. Who are they? And why are they fighting all of each other if they are brothers and equals

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the battle there was first between the communists who ruling and the bulk of the people who good simple Muslims. And they were asking for their freedom against the communist rule in their own country of gun is by Afghanis.

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Then Russia jumped

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onto the bandwagon to help the communist to communist the whole country. Yes, and the war took place. And after 10 years or so, the Russians had to leave. They left the country lifted to the old deviated, divide whatever it is. Now, it's human nature, human nature that now the people who have been helping you, they have certain motives. And they have been exploiting, for example, one group of people, the Mujahideen means those people who are fighting for the freedom, they will help by Iran.

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So they would go in the process, they'll be trying to make them to accept the philosophy of the Iranians. That's one faction that does one action is another faction, this is the Saudis are helping them. They'll want to make them to think as they're thinking. Another section is held by Pakistanis. The Pakistanis want universal Look, when everything is over, we want you to become one with us. So all these are power politics, no human being is in five times a day, they're all lining up together with no devil in between.

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The devil there we were talking about number one, getting rid of first was your racial and all the other prejudices, but now they still they breed together. But now, what happens is is that in the end, the loot, how are you going to share this? You know? How do you move this country? So the one is brainwashed to say that the ideal way of running this country is on a communist basis with the follows ruling that the guy says it must be Islamic the way the Iranian said that other guys who don't it will should be Islamic, but as the Pakistani sees it, so this is that human this thing and and the devil in between the somebody is running around, trying to see that they remain in this

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situation. And part of the plain simple rules of the Quran to correct that overnight not doing not overnight. What the rule is go back to the book,

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go to the book, and the trouble with most people. Nobody really goes to the book.

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thing I would like to ask you is

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in this wonderful and it

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We're having fun here to be partners.

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But in this wonderful Islamic Center,

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you are gentlemen, as I see everybody here that I look at this is a male so far. Now, suppose you went home tonight, every one of these distinguished gentlemen, yes. And all of your daughters chose this day to tell you that they had decided to marry the Jewish boy down the street, or the Christian boy that was walking, right? Suppose that

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I mean, any of these things, I don't have to elaborate further, young people.

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Often they start all these things, and then how do you speak to them? When you say, look, the Jew is my brother, the Christian is my brother, but we don't get married. And then you come back to white doesn't want to marry black, and then everybody passes laws. So first of all, Afghanistan, and they're all fighting each other, and secondly, intermarriage or what they decided, what if your son came home and said, I have been a good Muslim for 30 years, but suddenly I have decided to become a Christian. I mean, so what do you say? Okay, your second question about marriage.

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Islam tells us in detail who we can and when we can't.

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We follow this biblical injection to the letter where the Bible says that an idolatry or an idolatrous Thou shall not marry.

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Now we will uphold that, and idolatry. And those daughters Thou shalt not marry. So my son falls in love with a Hindu girl.

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My religion says, No, you can marry her, no matter how beautiful she is, no matter how much you lose.

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What is it you can't marry, not racially, with the Hindus, most of the Hindus, we are one language group. We have the same racial stock, we carry the same surnames, we enjoy the same dishes. But because of our religious

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concept idea of God,

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my religion says you can't marry and I don't stress.

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I can, my religion allows me to marry a Christian woman for us. It does allow you to allow, it does not allow that reason. The reason. This is the reasoning behind it is look, we are so close. If I marry a Christian address, for example,

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I would be the last man to say anything abusive about any of the Jewish heroes, Moses, David Solomon, Jesus, we have the highest respect for them. So this wife of mine is us, she will be still at home with me. In other words, I respect Moses, I respect David Solomon, all the prophets, what I will tell him with her and reasonably there is so Come, dear, now come a step forward. You have been at a certain level of religious education, come two steps forward. One is to accept Jesus and then accept Muhammad as well. So I'm asking her to come to a higher level of understanding religion, to the Christian woman in this country when I said that at first, that look, we are allowed to marry

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Christian women. So the white men in the audience has been at Blue talks. They will say I yeah, I know why. So So why is Illinois because we are whites. You think that marrying a white woman is a superior thing to do.

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Even if the Christian woman is an African woman, she is hot and thought she is a Bushman, she is Christian I can marry because again, we are so close. We accept Jesus, as one of the mightiest messengers of God, we accept him as the Messiah. We accept his miraculous birth, we accept as many miracles, the only point of real difference between me and my spouse, that Christian lady would be that I would say, Look, he is not God. He is not the Begotten Son of God. But everything else. We have a common denominator, we have one with a Jew, we have a common denominator the Christian

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so we can get them in easily they can be absorbed in the house of Islam. Because whatever you believe, we believe, plus a step further. But now, my daughter can't marry a Hindu men, nor can she marry a Jew, nor can she marry a Christian. Now the Hindu is understood being an idol worship.

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But now is what about the Jew in the Christian I can marry a Jewish and I can marry a Christian woman? Why can't my daughter marry a Jew or a Christian? No, not the reason is that you see the Christian husband of my daughter. He's gonna be respectful, man. He's gonna use offensive language. He's gonna say mama is an imposter. Why? Because that sounds really terrible. That's his training. Because as soon as you say, as soon as you say that you accept Muhammad as a prophet, the other Muslim.

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You see, when you say you, as you, you will say good. Mohammed was a great man. Everybody says so.

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He was a mighty man. You know, he created a nation, an empire and religion. He I'm supposed to have left behind the book, like the Quran. So So look, I think of my head to the man is great. And so many people think he was one of the greatest men that ever lived. Michael Hart in his top 100 he put Muhammad number one, yes, Jews Muslim, you know, in his book on the text and history of men in the top 100, then Jews Muslim and in the history of work is great leaders and lamartine in his history of the Turks. He says the greatness of purpose, smallness of means, and outstanding reserves are the three criteria of human greatness, who could dare to compare any great men in modern history with

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Mahatma his daring people bring your candidates. So in other words, now, from that point of view, the Christian the Westerner will be prepared to concede that moment was a great man. But he was an imposter.

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In other words, he was not he was a false prophet. So that's the biggest barrier now. Because if you accept that he was also a prophet, Prophet means that God chose him. He got choose Muhammad, Muhammad tells you that the flesh of the sign does not eat.

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Now you can say, look, I like pork chops. You know, all my life, I've been enjoying it.

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This man is a prophet of God, and is authorized by God to tell you now, don't intake, don't drink alcohol, no promise scarceness don't dance or quarter date. women say it every step. Now, if you believe in this man, that he is a prophet of God, you have to listen to him is not just a word thing. I believe he's a prophet, he means nothing. When you say he is a prophet of God, what does it imply? It means that he is chosen by God, that it is chosen by God to guide you, to tell you now according to your capacity, now that you are not to touch alcohol, you're not protect interest. You're not whatever he tells you, it becomes binding on you, which you are not prepared to accept

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who the Jew or the Christian

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minister Do I have to last time I was really afraid to bring these things up. Because you seem to me, a very holy man. And I respect you for that. But sir, there are just too many things. I mean, everybody is so human. And you must know that there are people of great Islamic tradition, particularly we see them in Geneva, it just happens to be a place where many come who do not observe one single one hardly of the things you said, and they're pretty famous Islamic people. And then they go back home, and they put on the rayment. Or they they respect the things only at a certain period in time. Now, I'm not saying that you have a monopoly on the hypocrites, because Christianity

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is absolutely full of them. And I suppose every other religion is too. But you know what, what God says and does, and what prophets say and do is so far from from the least of these thy brethren, that sometimes it really seems hopeless, including for the Muslims, if you excuse me for saying so no, I would say that look, no, no community,

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in his right mind can claim to be perfect.

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We all have our black sheep, whether you are a Jew or a Christian, Hindu or Muslim, we all have our shortcomings. But

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this American,

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he wrote a book, the messenger.

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In that book, he says that there are professing Christians in the world, then professing Muslims passing, but is as it continues, but they are not practicing Muslims in the world and practicing Christians.

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And if you had come here, this morning, say before 12, around one o'clock, I could have taken you to the mosque.

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And of course, today, it would have been out, because today was Friday. And on Fridays, there is no place even for us in the mosque. This mosque next door to us here. It holds 4000 people on Fridays, but any ordinary day, any weekday. If you come there, you'll find that there are more than 1000 people in the middle of the day, more than 1000 people in the middle of the day, in the middle of the week,

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which you will not find in the Catholic Cathedral on Sunday.

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So what is it? How does it work? So as far as the practice of religion is concerned, we have a hypocrites we have a black sheep. But on a percentage basis, there's not under the community religious community on Earth, another community, which is as responsive to the religious injunction as the Muslim with all of our shortcomings. Whatever you describe in Geneva, we can also describe anywhere else in London or New York or anywhere. Yes, I accept.

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But since I mean we are not perfect examples of whatever our religion, but is it peace

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As a whole, now, when you judge, you judge a system, according to the whole, that in South Africa, we are boasting. And nobody has contradicted me that in South Africa, we have the lowest alcohol consumption in the country.

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We have the lowest gambling rate in the country, we have the lowest divorce rate in the country, we have the lowest prison rate in the country. And we have the lowest suicide rate in the country and the highest charity rate in the country. And nobody has been able to contradict me. So in other words, what does it

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everything else is the same? What does it in this environment know is the teaching because the Muslim is being programmed five times a day, so to say, when he goes for prayer, he's been programmed, he's been programmed. So he's the least racist, I can't say is free from racism. We are pure angels. But he is the least racist. He's alcohol, he is the lowest in everything else is the lowest hanging charity rate is the highest. What does it is a programming because there is a system. Islam gives you a system that brings people together bringing people that doesn't eliminate in all our sequences, because it's a type of programming that you can receive.

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And it's only the superficial contact with religion, which is creating this superficial. Now in the Christian community, the Seventh Day Adventists, and the Mormon community are used in, they have the same attention to no alcohol and to very healthy eating, and to the proper diet and all the rest of the things. And they practice more. And they're used in medical experiments, people go to test hearts and what have you, because they know that they are far more faithful practices of religious interdictions than members of other communities. And that is, it's obviously, a tremendous plus. But coming back, we have I think that the smallness of the community that does that, with the community

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is so small, yes, sex, sex, sex, so they can keep together, keep together keep on inspiring one another brainwashing one another. But as soon as the thing gets big, like you say, the Roman Catholic Church is it gets unwieldy the Anglican Church gets unwieldy, is the numbers not count. The bigger the number, the less cohesive the community will be true, but you are how many 100 years later you have extended this of 600 years after. So perhaps it could be it could be projected, or suggested that in Islam, you've got 600 more years to go before even Islam will start to be it could be the same as these other religions, which get a little bit watered down. Which brings me back if I

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make two points, we have 12 minutes to go in. I'd like for you to finish about that. You said the daughters could not marry outside, but the but the sons could drop off except to Jews and Christians. Yeah. Okay, the good woman among them. And so then I would like to know about the children, if you married a Muslim lady. And I mean, if you excuse me, if you marry a Christian, how does Mohammed teach about the children of those marriages? And then after that, I would like to know about what the religion says about converting about becoming missionaries, for Islam, as the Christians have become missionaries. If you can speak to those two points. You see, with regards to

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the marriage,

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you want to know what happens, what does Mohammed teach about the children right? In the house of Islam, the children that automatically the fathers, they follow the father's religion.

00:33:41--> 00:34:05

So in other words, now, it was it's understood at the back of the mind that if even marry a dress, I will find convert her and every Muslim in the family. Everybody is interested. So why what's wrong? Why don't you become Muslim? Married Christian, everybody, you know, my family and man, my father, you know, my brother, my mother, everybody is in the neighbors, everybody is keep

00:34:06--> 00:34:11

eating the life out of the person. Why, what's wrong? What's wrong, Mary? You know, why don't you begin?

00:34:12--> 00:34:37

So, you know, that that is the attitude of the Muslim was to bring them in, bring them in and convert them, the children automatically they will be following the Muslim religion. In the house of Islam, it was never expected that we will be in a state of minority anywhere at anytime, you know, the attitude should be the DRI should the religious religion as preached by God, through Muhammad will prevail?

00:34:39--> 00:34:59

automatically, automatically will all become Muslim. So as central you're following the same rules and regulations, that is the idea, but now in Western society, it is not so. So there is a danger. I marry a Christian lady and I have a few children. But in case a marriage breaks up, it can be

00:35:00--> 00:35:19

Marriage, marriage can break up between a Pakistani Pakistani soldier and sad. And we'll be more reasons why you should break up between a person from another culture and another religion, there are no chances at the absolute. So if that happens now, according to the Western law, the woman takes the children with her

00:35:22--> 00:35:59

mother, mother, so my children are gone. So my mom and my dad and my Mohamad are going to church, because I suppose now you with it, lady, and you go back, where do you go to your Auntie's, and your grannies and your aunties and grandmothers are going to church, so you take my children along with you. So over a period of a boy brainwash into Christianity, so the dangers are so great that says, look, although there is a scope for marrying Jews and Christians, I am always telling to people, so please don't take a chance. Don't tempt Providence, you say you're playing with fire? You know, this is gonna come as a big surprise to you. But the Christians are saying the same thing to their

00:35:59--> 00:36:02

children. Right. And so the Jews

00:36:04--> 00:36:15

is an act of self preservation. You make a law, the Roman Catholic makes a law. I'm not opposed to that. What I'm saying is that Islam is the religion that is destined

00:36:16--> 00:36:25

to be the final religion of mankind reason is the latest, and it caters for all your problems. That's what I said at the beginning.

00:36:27--> 00:36:30

For example, you are an American. And you

00:36:31--> 00:37:18

know, I just come from America. In November, I was there. And I came across certain statistics that there are in America today 7.8 million, 7.8 million more women than men. If more women than men, if every men in America got married, there still be 7.8 million women will be sitting on the shelf, waiting for husbands with a legate start to start with, as if nature is taking revenge on the west. giving you more women than men 7.8 million. And the manpower you have, in that mighty nation. 25 million a sodomite gays, you call them gays 25 million, another 25 million who can get husbands? As I don't know how many million that is, but

00:37:19--> 00:37:30

10% is that? 25? Yeah. 25 million sodomites. gays? Yes, then 98% of your prison population is men.

00:37:31--> 00:38:15

Then man gets called for so many reasons. He wants to marry him to marry me to show him right. And he gets cold feet. For some reason. It doesn't tell us why. But he gets coffee. he backs up. But a woman even if she's frigid. She wouldn't mind somebody giving her protection and marriage. And a marriage of convenience. Maybe you know, this feed me clothes me house means I give in to the man for his pleasures. But she's prepared to marry even if we do. Generally, we'll she doesn't mind getting husband but the man. He gets problems after problems. He's not sure of himself. So now, with that amount of surplus women in America, what happens? What is the answer? What did the Holy Ghost

00:38:15--> 00:38:34

because the Christian say is that Jesus was promising the Holy Ghost, the Holy Spirit to come along and guide mankind into all truth. 2000 years have gone. So I'm asking what did the Holy Ghost tell any church in 2000 years? How To solve this problem of surplus women? You have more than that? 10 million women in America who can't get as much?

00:38:35--> 00:38:40

What do you do with them? Well, the feminist women would say who needs one.

00:38:41--> 00:39:25

And the traditional women would say that, if I can't speak for them, I can't speak for either group. But I would say that, frankly And truly, I honestly believe that the Holy Spirit draws if you are filled with the idea that the love of God shines out of you, that there will be some men someplace sometime under the grace of God, who will be dropped, you know, men are not stupid, if they find a lovely lady, who is kind and who is loving and who is sweet, and who likes to create a good home and who wants to be a good mother and to is perfectly willing to love and to cherish and to revere that gentleman.

00:39:26--> 00:39:59

There will somehow this thing in itself will draw a male creature like that. But now what about the 30 million suppose in a perfect with this all the men that are they were you know, we haven't discounted as sort of mites as prisoners and so on and so on. So there still be 30 million woman if all those men get married, they find the bride you know the ideal bride. Still there with 30 million woman who can get husbands well, very well. Through no through no choice of my own. I assure you it was necessary that I had

00:40:00--> 00:40:50

Become divorced. And this is against everything that I believe in as a Christian woman. However, in the years since that I have lived with full joy, in splendid isolation from the world of men in that way, although my work keeps me there all the time, there is a certain joy that in celibacy, there is a, an intensification of the Spirit, which is, I suppose, in Roman Catholicism, you talk about priests and nuns, I'm not sure about Islam, whether you have people who practice celibacy or not, but it is a very, very noble, holy and lovely, wonderful thing. And you simply live, what you feel that God's want you to do and what God wants you to be. And you can give back into the world a great

00:40:50--> 00:41:00

deal of what you've received. I don't believe that this is a punishment, or that this is a sin or that it's that much of a terrible move of the pies in the eating.

00:41:01--> 00:41:16

Refined in Roman Catholicism, Mongolian memory in Islam is forbidden lumens and lunate. Islam forbids you to do that, because it's unnatural. Now, the proof that this is unnatural, you read the statistics today, how many percent of the priesthood are gays,

00:41:18--> 00:41:19

when you don't allow them the natural

00:41:20--> 00:41:55

release, then they're going to find unnatural ways sodomized, how many sodomites are there in the Catholic Church in the Anglican Church? That is a proof that the system is not natural. You're gonna you're gonna do things which are unnatural. Then, while in America, I was looking for Dr. Kinsey's book on the American female. You see, I had read it many years ago. Yes, Dr. Kinsey high level the American female. And I wanted to have possess that book, because I had read it and it belonged to a doctor friend, I gave it to him. And since then I didn't see that book. I wanted Dr. Kinsey's, that's then

00:41:57--> 00:42:08

I didn't find that I went to most of the book shops in New York. And they say, well, it's on the computer, but it's they haven't got it in stock. It's on the computer, but it's not in stock, then I was forced to buy masters and Johnson's.

00:42:09--> 00:42:13

This is more up to date, version of Kinsey, masters and Johnson.

00:42:14--> 00:42:15

And what I read there,

00:42:16--> 00:43:02

you know, the American life, which is the same as the British life of sexology, or the German or the French, they all the same, might be one or 2% different between one and the other. But generally whatever happening in America, whatever the norms will be the norms of the Western nations in Europe. And I was actually horrified things I can tell my audiences anyway, Why are there no gays in Islam and other Americans say that they would be seen visit this nation is an angel and the angelic nation. So we'll have our daughters will have a black sheep, but not in the West. This is becoming the norm is the person if your son is gay, you're not ashamed of it anymore.

00:43:03--> 00:43:49

In the house of Islam, everybody is this is the most horrible things. In my son was now in conservative Christianity. It is an abomination that says it's biblical, right? This is a guy who preaches, you see, but now the guy was practicing Lego from Sega. All the televangelist look at this part out lately, one by one, the whole lot of them. Yes, they're all leading unnatural lights on Reverend Coleman, Jim Becker, Jerry Falwell. I'm sorry, but that doesn't know. I did. The Bible still says it's an abomination. No, no, we accept that. But now saying is one thing. And the solution to that is the Jesus Christ. He said beautiful things, says, Do not look upon a woman to

00:43:49--> 00:44:16

lust after. Beautiful. Don't look to lust. What about beauty contest? What about longer contests? We have in South Africa beachbum contest. I know. As in the Christian, he hears a sermon on Sunday, even the priest he is symbolizing you about Thou shalt not look upon a woman to lust. And yet in the evening, he is prepared to dance with his the lives of his congregation.

00:44:22--> 00:44:32

Tell us your solution to what you have described as the or shall we say Curse of America or this big problem? Or opportunity? I would say you see God Almighty.

00:44:34--> 00:44:57

In his wisdom, he gave us solution to our problems. And we read this in the Bible that almost every prophet of God had more than one way. Abraham had three Solomon had 1000 wives and concubines 1000 David, his son, he had more than a dozen

00:44:58--> 00:45:00

in the time of Jesus

00:45:00--> 00:45:04

polygamy was practiced by the Jews. To see

00:45:05--> 00:45:10

the come to Jesus, the Jews had come to him with a poser with a riddle.

00:45:11--> 00:45:18

They were asking him He says, Master, there was a woman among us, who had seven husbands, according to Jewish practice,

00:45:19--> 00:45:34

that if one brother died and he will left no offsprings behind, then the second brother will pick up the wife and try to I think they call it Lee right marriage. Yes. So, according to that system, seven brothers, they went through this one woman,

00:45:35--> 00:45:36

one after another.

00:45:37--> 00:45:40

And in the end, the woman died and the seven brothers died.

00:45:41--> 00:45:47

So they came to ask Jesus, that while they were alive, there was no problem because it was one by one.

00:45:48--> 00:45:54

But they want to know from him that at the resurrection, which guy is going to have her? Because they all had her? Yeah.

00:45:55--> 00:46:06

That means seven brothers had this one woman. Now we do not. We can't imagine that among the Jews, the seven brothers were waiting in a queue for a brother to diverting with a woman, surely they had their own wives.

00:46:08--> 00:46:32

say they had their own wives, and they were trying to do their duty, simultaneously simulataneously to this woman, and they failed, and another brother faith and another faith, politician was practice in the whole Bible, there is not a single verse anywhere against polygamy. Jesus Christ never uttered a word about polygamy. Little wonder that he said, in my last interview, I told you, that he said,

00:46:34--> 00:47:08

I have yet many things to say unto you, but he cannot pay them now. How beat when he The Spirit of Truth is come, He will guide you into all truth. All truth means all your all your problems solution to all your problems. And is this a defensive role? Because the Prophet Mohammed had many wives, nor is this is the metric, this is a natural answer to a natural problem. We didn't create it. In America today. As I said, when I visited the country, I discovered that there were 7.8 million more women than men.

00:47:09--> 00:47:20

If every man in america got married, there still be 7.8 million woman who can get husbands. And in the city of New York alone, there are 1 million more women than men.

00:47:21--> 00:47:29

In the city of New York alone, 1 million more women than men. If every man in New York gets mad, it's gonna be a million woman.

00:47:30--> 00:48:03

Is there is polygamy of practice here in this Islamic community? Hardly, hardly being practice. It's what is hardly, hardly rarely is a real thing. But this is a solution to a problem. We are not offering this as a tonic to the world. You have a problem. Britain has a problem Europe, Germany has 5 million more women than men, Germany, in Britain, soon after the war, and reading that they were 1.6 million more women on the east coast of England alone,

00:48:04--> 00:48:25

than men. You have a problem with the 7.8 million women in America without husbands, then of the males in New York, one minute, one third against sodomites. All right, then, in the whole country, 25 million sodomites gays. In other words, another 25 million woman who can't get husbands,

00:48:26--> 00:49:05

plus a 7.8, the another 25 million, then your prison population 98% of men. Again, undiscounted, then telling you jokingly, but I think there's many serious things I said in jest, that men get cold feet for so many reasons. I know. I've been trying to get guys married. And I don't know what happens. And everything is fine, fine, fine. His job and he wants to. And then at the last minute, the guy gets cold feet. He doesn't tell us why. Maybe at the back of the mind, he can't make the grade. He didn't make a fool of himself. He finds some excuse of getting out of it. So man,

00:49:06--> 00:49:11

so many reasons. But the woman, even if she's frigid, she'll want to have somebody to give her protection.

00:49:16--> 00:49:51

Right here on the just before President declared speech, I immediately read all of the newspapers and listen to the radio, the TV and what have you. And of course, one heard everything about the point of view of the ANC, which is a political organization UDF Pac, and one heard the point of view of the government. And this was in every front page everywhere. There was practically no mention whatsoever of the opinions of either the colored community, the Indian community, or the Islamic community and there may be others.

00:49:52--> 00:50:00

I could not find really almost even a reference to it. So my first question on this subject, where is it

00:50:00--> 00:50:04

The Islamic community in politics in South Africa today,

00:50:06--> 00:50:25

you see is numerically numerically the Muslim Council and I think that wisdoms count for nothing for nothing Oh is that so, how because we are less than 2% of the total South African population less than and then this 2% less than 2% is divided in South Africa according to the

00:50:27--> 00:51:15

apartheid laws, we are divided into two major groups, one group is called Indian Muslim and the other is called colored Muslim. You see, they have divided the Muslim again into two sections, that less than 2% is further divided by the laws of the country into two other groups. One is called colored, they call the Malays their colors, they go as colored in this country, according to the South African laws and the other because most of us originated in India, Pakistan, we go as Indians. So, now, as Indians, we are shunted together with the other Indians, see, who happened to be 80% of the population, Indian population. So, the Indian is a minority. And in that minority, the Indian

00:51:15--> 00:51:19

Muslim is one fifth. It's a minority of a minority

00:51:20--> 00:51:57

in South Africa. So numerically, we don't count anything among so why mentioned you but that's one of the main reasons then the Malay is counted as a colored. So among the colored communities also a minority color is a minority is a bigger minority than India, they are almost about 3 million colors, mixture between black and white. Among them, the Mali is also counted as a colored, but he's called Malay. But Mali means is a colored is a Malay Muslim with a colored identity, when you just say call it alone, who is a Christian colored, I am a Malay is a Malay colored,

00:51:58--> 00:52:13

racially is a colored, it carries a colored identity card, but religiously, he is a Muslim, so they call him Malay and the other Muslims here we call the Indians. So as such now, the Malay will have to start voting, according to that colored group.

00:52:14--> 00:52:37

Whatever the routings are, you know, so they have this party and conservative party and National Party, so they start voting for them. And among the Indians, they have the solidarity party and what all MP whatever they call them, they vote for that. So in other there is no other way that we can make our presence felt back the Muslim we believe that we have solution to the problems of South Africa.

00:52:38--> 00:52:53

Which way You see, when this an identical situation, that is prevailing South Africa at the moment where there is a huge black power, and there is a huge white power, and they are in confrontation.

00:52:55--> 00:53:19

They're both up playing the game. I hope that you know, something good comes out of this. There's some sincerity on both sides, and there is peace, because they both start going warning, then the rest of the community is more people will all get smashed in this battle of the Giants. But now the solution is an identical situation prevailed in Medina when Muhammad went to Medina for Makkah, in when he had to make his flight.

00:53:20--> 00:53:29

When he reached Medina, in Medina, there are two types aos and Hydra. These are the names aos and Hydra. And they also worry

00:53:30--> 00:54:11

like here, the black upon black, the black men killing black men because you know you belong to a different political party killing is going on continuously. Similar thing prevent among the Arabs, one tribe killing the members of the other tribe over little little things, until Mohammed said his sacred feet in Medina, and he offered them the book, The Quran. This is God's revelation to you. This is the rope of God, this is a rope of rescue, you hold this mdbc so the house accepted Islam and the Hydra accepted Islam, they held on to this rope and peace prevail. So Islam has a solution to the problems of black and white. Because

00:54:12--> 00:54:25

this is only people there's a tug of war is going on. What can we get? The white men want to get the maximum from the black man and the black man wants to get the maximum from the white man is natural, but not to do justice.

00:54:26--> 00:54:37

You said you see both the people they need Islam, the African and the African? because Islam is the only religion which tells us look, we are all human beings from the same father

00:54:38--> 00:54:53

and a common form of worship that we get together in the house of Islam and you go even now that you find that the African Muslim, the Muslim is a color, the Indian Muslim and an occasional white Muslim. They're all praying together.

00:54:54--> 00:54:59

But that does not happen in the churches. It's the best Reformed Church. They have

00:55:00--> 00:55:08

Form judge for the whites separate for the Dutch Reformed Church for the current separate that the Reformed Church for the Indian separate Reformed Church for the African separate.

00:55:09--> 00:55:20

They're all divided. Do you help carry the same label? Same thing happens the Catholic Church, the musubi church is different from the Zulu Catholic Church, and is different from the colored Catholic Church.

00:55:21--> 00:55:23

This is the general practice.

00:55:25--> 00:55:37

linguistically, they're all separated. So still, you feel that you are different from the other fellow in the house of Islam, wherever you come from, like when I come to Geneva, the last day, I'm at home,

00:55:39--> 00:55:53

the guy who might be leading us in prayer is an Arab. But it doesn't make any difference. I go to Nigeria, the African is leading me there. And in Tanzania, there's an African ima, it doesn't matter. Because the form of worship that I'm used to is the same whether I go to Indonesia,

00:55:54--> 00:56:03

or India, Pakistan, wherever I go, there is a common denominator, which Christendom cannot produce, there's no common denominator.

00:56:04--> 00:56:30

All right, in this, you are your vote at this point, then is not going to be that much significant, significant. Alright. So in what's going to happen, is there anything just to have one word of economics? whether there was a still a free enterprise system, or whether it was nationalization and total socialization? with a slight communist overtone? Does that make any difference

00:56:31--> 00:57:13

to the Islamic population, it will make a big difference. And so what would you before because maybe we'll go for free enterprise. Because as it is now, you know, there was a time when even the young people had certain ideas about Russia. And we can see the whole thing has crumbled to pieces. Yes, because the thing is unnatural. Our wise men are telling us that this is unnatural, it can stay. There is a law at work. And according to that law, this thing can last, it lasted a long time, 70 years. But after 70 years, the thing has to come to pieces. So it says now you have an example to go by. This was your goal, the only perfect example you had of communism is falling to pieces, China is

00:57:13--> 00:57:54

opening its doors. So now you want to experiment, again is the food. The man who wants to taste fire himself, he was to burn his finger to find out whether fire burns is a fool. That's it, learn from other people's experiences. Look at it, wherever they have practiced this communist system in a Muslim be what has happened in Tanzania go and visit the place I will Yes, I did a bit I've been there twice in Tanzania. And I was telling that anybody who wants to opt for that system, give them a free ticket. The holiday is a go to Tanzania. And we'll spend three months and come back. And when you tell me what what type of system you are, whether it is Mandela, or anybody who talks about that

00:57:54--> 00:57:57

system, as is give them a free ticket to Tanzania.

00:57:58--> 00:57:59

And let them come back

00:58:01--> 00:58:08

with the that economics and that's all we'll touch on that. So you this community would opt for the free enterprise system.

00:58:12--> 00:58:17

Groups of the UDF ANC, do any of them have any particular

00:58:19--> 00:58:46

attitude toward Islam, that would compare for instance, I brought one of your folders here, there are some things that that you say about the the Zionists or the Jews, which are very, very, very strong. And before we speak about that, I would like to ask if there are any of these other groups or the Christian groups who say anything that strong against Islam in this country,

00:58:47--> 00:58:59

you see, there is like an unwritten policy of the discussion country, to see that, you know, everything, as as difficult as it is possible for them to make for us.

00:59:00--> 00:59:10

But there is a freedom of religion in this country, which I have to take off my head with the Second Amendment, the word freedom of religion.

00:59:11--> 00:59:21

Freedom of speech, is a freedom of religion. As a young man, I was reading the communist constitution. And so articles also tells us and I read it, and

00:59:23--> 00:59:36

that there is freedom of religious practices and anti religious propaganda and quoting, freedom of religious practices and anti religious propaganda. So I thought, Well, look, we both have a fair chance.

00:59:37--> 00:59:53

But I didn't understand that. He says freedom of religious practices that freedom has given me but not to preach and, and anti religious propaganda. One 4000 Muslims that want to the most for prayer, the guy outside can make a noise and say this

00:59:54--> 01:00:00

is how they pray. They can make a mockery of it. But I can't come out and say look man, come inside, and

01:00:00--> 01:00:30

I will tell you, you know how to get peace of the system that we are one sided, it's one sided. But in South Africa, when they say this freedom of religion, they do really give it to us. In other words, I go to the city hall of Capetown, which I did go to. And I organized a lecture there, Christianity, communism, or Islam, which has the answers to the problems of South Africa. And the city of Cape Town is a stone's throw from Parliament House in Cape Town, and I delivered a lecture to a packed audience their

01:00:31--> 01:00:41

Christianity, communism, or Islam. And since the speaker is a Muslim, it's understood automatically that it is not Christianity. It is not feminism's Islamic answer,

01:00:43--> 01:00:58

and no interference from the government, on any level, no interference, then we had a conflict with the government twice. Twice, we had a conflict with the government on our publications. One was in 1982, I published a pamphlet the claims of begging

01:01:00--> 01:01:01

you guess?

01:01:03--> 01:01:13

My lesson begins is claims claims have begun. And that pamphlet the Jews had it brought up before the publication's born. And they had it back.

01:01:15--> 01:01:42

We made representation, but our representation, I mean, I blame my soldier, you know, my lawyer, I lost the case. Then the government that the Christians now this time, they took up another of my publication called crucifixion of crucifixion. It sounds the same, like a riddle is not crucifixion. The first is FX iron fiction to fix a man on the cross and killed and the other fiction is fit to fiction means a fairy tale?

01:01:43--> 01:01:46

Is it a fiction to fix and kill? Or is it a fiction if

01:01:47--> 01:01:49

that's the title of my book.

01:01:52--> 01:02:05

And some missionaries, they brought it to the attention of the public a publication, the director of publication read it, and he directed his board in Pretoria. He is in Cape Town, he directs his board in Pretoria, sebamed, the book,

01:02:06--> 01:02:25

the board goes through the book. And they say, look, this is not very pleasant. We don't like this book, is a very important book undermining our foundation of our faith, which is the crucifixion, and resurrection of Christ is the foundation. And this book undermines that is a very dangerous book. But it does not infringe any law.

01:02:26--> 01:02:31

So we can ban it. So the director of publication went on appeal against his own board.

01:02:32--> 01:02:42

This is something unique to me, it's a unique thing, in any country in the world, that that it's a bad thing is bad, you can go and find it out afterwards. But this is the director goes on appeal against his own bone.

01:02:44--> 01:03:06

In that case, he's going to hire an advocate, to represent him against the board, to convince them that the book should be banned. So for the first time, the board informs us that look, this is what has transpired so far. If you want to defend your book, you come along and defended yourself, we will not play the devil's advocate on your behalf. So we went and defended our book, and we won the case against the government.

01:03:07--> 01:03:13

So to me, there is the freedom. If you can play the game according to the rules

01:03:14--> 01:03:37

of the game. There is nothing for you to worry about. Now, this is a very good entrance, what you have just described that you held the crusade fiction Yes, up and you made your case, which I believe when I read something about that, that Jesus appeared you you believe as dressed as the gardener when it said that the ladies thought he was

01:03:39--> 01:03:41

not Yes. And it goes on like that.

01:03:46--> 01:04:15

You have said that in the name of freedom of speech, even though that was an abomination to Christians, right. They allowed you and you won your case. May I move now to Rushdie. Right. And the fact that he has printed something which I assume I have never read it and I don't intend to it is equally as quotes insulting to the Islamic religion as that would be to the christian right. And yet he is under penalty of death

01:04:16--> 01:04:59

and you are not under penalty of death. Now for having said this, could you lead us into this discussion using those two cases? You see now in the case the government says In my case about my book that this is a bonafide a belief. I'm not trying to make a mockery of the Christian suggests I want to be funny. I want to be clever to say look, this is nonsense, man. How can one man you know take the sins of the world? You know, is this taking you the Christianity is taking 1000 million people for a ride on the cross? Yeah, I believe it or not that I'm making a mockery in this law in the country. You are not to sneer at somebody else's religion. What I was telling was a bonafide a

01:04:59--> 01:04:59

belief

01:05:00--> 01:05:21

Because my book says, Rama Cthulhu masala boo, which means they didn't kill him and they do crucify. My book says that this is my belief, a bonafide a belief so as such now I'm expanding it if it goes against you in that case I just can't help it. This is the belief that's given to me by my fave and 1000 million people believe

01:05:22--> 01:05:24

in the case of Rushdie, it is not that

01:05:26--> 01:05:27

he has gone out of his way

01:05:29--> 01:05:44

to abuse everybody. Like for example, in South Africa, we had the book banned just like that. See, there is a law the law is there. And according to that law, we succeeded. You are not to sneer at somebody else's belief. This guy here

01:05:45--> 01:05:56

the races, you know, our biggest problem is race. As I said in my previous interview, everywhere is a race. This man is the greatest racist. You know, he beats Hitler's main camp.

01:05:58--> 01:06:04

We shoot to the director Look what this guy says. He says nigga eat white men [???], his rights.

01:06:05--> 01:06:10

And this is not this is prevent racism. He's a racist himself. But

01:06:12--> 01:06:14

then it says, blank sheet is bad.

01:06:16--> 01:06:24

Equals amigas equals equals what and what not. Right? So this is not bendable. This is not right.

01:06:26--> 01:06:43

Then he's used certain type of language. One word, which we do which use the for one word, Lady Chatterley's lover, was banned in this country for 20 years. That word he uses 55 to 57 times in his book,

01:06:44--> 01:06:48

forgetting that his besmirching the characters of Islamic faith,

01:06:49--> 01:06:57

our spiritual mothers, the wives of the Prophet, the prophet himself, then the Prophet Abraham, and the companions of the Prophet, the thing that he calls them, this

01:06:58--> 01:07:27

makes anybody's blood boil, especially the most. But besides that, what he has done to everybody, the white man, the white woman, the Jews, he has not spayed anybody, but the problem with them with the people outside them. In the Western countries, nobody brought this to the attention of the people they we only cried ourselves with Luke, his former mother, who is Ayesha Siddiqa. Welcome to profit. Where she

01:07:28--> 01:07:34

Michigan sweet is no no, she's dead. So how long 1400 years? Does it hurt her?

01:07:35--> 01:07:37

The guy's making a mockery of it.

01:07:38--> 01:07:41

A mockery now. This does it hurt her.

01:07:42--> 01:07:46

Now you're making a mockery of it. But now if I turned the tables,

01:07:47--> 01:07:49

it would be different as a universal

01:07:50--> 01:07:57

until the people in Britain went around lecture to us. I'm telling them as you know what he says about Mrs. Margaret Thatcher?

01:07:58--> 01:07:59

What does he say?

01:08:00--> 01:08:22

So as a de casa bocha full stop one word sentence torture, then says Maggie the Mitch. Maggie the big three word sentence. Maggie the bitch as Is it right? You people should have gone to Mrs. Thatcher and says ma with an open book. The Satanic Verses says Ma, look, this photo is calling your pitch is it right man?

01:08:24--> 01:08:44

But maybe you can take it. You know you are great. You are the Iron Lady. You know today is nothing but whatever the feeling, the feelings of your DS and mark. somebody's calling him son of a bitch. What about his feelings? What about your daughter Karen? What about her feelings? The book would have been bad. You know what he does with the queen? He contributes with that. In the book.

01:08:45--> 01:09:18

He makes tender love to her. Me joins me there. But Mr. Leader, if I may say so you see as a Christian, professing and believing Christianity and everyone connected with it have been reviled by so many people, so much literature and so many people in the world, that not only do we have mud of every kind of description in the world, thrown on Jesus Christ thrown on the church thrown on individual Christians, martyrs, anybody else

01:09:19--> 01:09:48

that it doesn't immediate it's sheds off your back like water because you expect it of anyone for any reason that they choose. And the second thing is as Christians we are then called upon, no matter how vile the treatment to the Christian religion or to the Christian himself, to arrive at the point where we can express total forgiveness for that person because if there is a God who says,

01:09:50--> 01:10:00

Judge not lest ye be judged. Even though we all do it every day. 25 times we are called upon to rise above this and eventually

01:10:00--> 01:10:33

Pray for that man, that God in his own wisdom and infinite way through the grace of the Holy Spirit will touch that man, whether he's Islam or whether he's, whether it's Judaism or quad that that person who is reviling, first of all, his reviling against us isn't going to hurt him. But when that guy gets in front of God Almighty, at least in the Christian religion, he is in far bigger trouble than anything we can do on earth. And even if we killed this man, and now it's coming to us to the sentence of death, even if we killed this man,

01:10:35--> 01:10:58

in a sense, in a pure Christian sense, we are interfering with the law of God, because God Himself, in his infinite wisdom will judge you, even if rusty had done that. And if the book never got published, if he had written it in a closed room, and no one had ever read it, God himself would still be the judge of Mr. Rushdie. So having said that,

01:10:59--> 01:11:42

you appreciate what I mean, when I say as a Christian, it's very hard to get so worked up about it, it no matter how awful it is, when we've been experiencing that for 2000 years, or so if the Jews, Islam has said terrible things about the Jews that they've said it in your literature, that they are absolutely, some of the things are, what they're doing now, at the moment, the way they're behaving. So what's the Nazis? Some of the things you say about them are things the Nazi said about the Jews, if it is true, to see if it is true that they are doing the things worse than what the Nazis did. Then, if it's hurting the guy, be speaking the truth. Is it true that is the guy who doesn't pay

01:11:42--> 01:12:08

taxes in Palestine? In in Gaza and West Bank? That person is thrown out of the house, the confiscate his property, and the Buddha's house? Is there any country in the world that does that? If you don't pay that tax, they get you into jail? Yes. Are they but they bulldoze shacks in in townships. And people have not been there, you can, you can pass their laws in the United States, if you

01:12:09--> 01:12:13

face no condemnation, or they, they condemned property, and

01:12:14--> 01:12:52

that is a different thing, then you compensate them. It's a look, this, this, this building we need. We want to demolish this. So we want to make a highway, I'm not looking for public these things. Here is a compensation for that. But this is the person who doesn't pay the tax, you kick his wife and children out, you take his fridges away, you just can't imagine. You break people's bones, I got filmed. I agree with that, all of that. When I tell you, I said you are doing something worse than what the taxes did to you. You should be the last people to behave like that. Because you went through hell, I sympathize with you. And now you are doing the same thing and worse than the Nazis.

01:12:52--> 01:13:06

So now, if it hurts you as it is just to that, but am I speaking the facts or lies? I give you proof from your own writers? Okay, but what about Islamic people? And I would bring up Christians, you know, who who have done terrorist acts and innocent people.

01:13:08--> 01:13:26

If you catch the terrorists, according to the rules of your country, you have every right to do what you like, if you say, look, there's no death penalty in Israel. There is no good penalty, death penalty, like, it's not my fault. That's your law. But to me now, if that guy killed innocent children, if I catch him, I'll hang him.

01:13:28--> 01:13:43

But you know, there's no death penalty. So they will put him in like prison. So that's your business. That is your law. But that is not the law is given by God. The Law of God says life for life, but never coming back to roost. He said, That's Jewish law too.

01:13:45--> 01:14:32

So now, if you don't want to follow your law, that's your business. I can't force you to follow your law. But now we also have a law that for certain blasphemies against God and His messengers, the punishment is death, by crucifixion, or by hanging, or by chopping off the hands entry from opposite ends, very cruel, but now present to as this is treason against the human means the community, the religious community, you have a low treason against the state for which, you know, you had the Nuremberg Trial, you have Lahore Hall, you know that britisher was broadcasting from Berlin, you had him killed, that that Irishmen you know, who try to you know, create bring some freedom for the that

01:14:32--> 01:14:40

you had him hang or shot. So in other words, not every country in the world, you have a law, and you behave according to your law.

01:14:41--> 01:14:44

Now, in the case of this devil here,

01:14:45--> 01:14:59

he's broken all the laws, but now I'm not crying about that. what I'm telling you is that the way to uproot the white man, the western is to show him where it hurts him. Because I'm told, like you said, it's not that the people are insensitive. Look, you can swear crime

01:15:00--> 01:15:44

And you can do this and do that and get away with it. Not going away with it. But no, but, but, but there is a law of blasphemy in England, Mary, Mrs. Mary Whitehouse, you know, she took the gay magazine to court for using certain blasphemies against Jesus, and she won the case. But now there's nothing to protect the Muslim feelings is only Anglican England has got only something to protect the Anglican Christian, not as we know there are Muslims in Britain, then Methodist. But our feelings are not considered at all, as if we are human beings. So now I said that there's no sense in crying about that. But you people, the listener is also sensitive when it hurts him. So I show

01:15:44--> 01:16:15

you us and he's not altogether insensitive about religious matters, the bulk of the people are religious. So it's only in a Christian, you only fill census forms. Mostly you say you are a Christian, but in the hearts of heart, you are not a Christian, you are a Christian in the sense that you are not a Muslim, you're not a Jew. In that sense. You are a Christian, but in your hearts and mind. It has nothing to do with your practical life. Generally, this is what I see. So now I'm gonna show you where it hurts you. So I'm showing you a salute up but highly sensitive people.

01:16:17--> 01:16:30

You see, because might be one way also saying these abilities are insensitive as they are not insensitive. You try and say certain things about them, and they'll break your jaw for you. Don't try. But you have to tell him what you said in

01:16:31--> 01:16:58

the book. The very first page, the very first page of Satanic Verses. He calls London as I was in the City of London in the Royal Albert Hall. So I think that most of you are Londoners. Whether you're a Pakistani London, or a Sikh Londoner, or an English language learner. You are all Londoners. This Yes, we have London as a call to London as Boston's first page.

01:16:59--> 01:17:02

If you're anything, of course, we feel is if

01:17:03--> 01:17:20

you are talking from a different you are personally involved. And now he's tells you, you bastard, you feel something that people say they feel it in America and I'm telling the afro American, it says mega eat white men [???].

01:17:21--> 01:17:25

As you feel everything does Yes. He calls you Coombs, he goes you

01:17:28--> 01:17:29

do you feel anything? He said? Yes.

01:17:31--> 01:17:38

While I landed there in America, the same day. I by the USA Today. And what I find that in Houston,

01:17:40--> 01:17:52

Mr. Westmoreland is is somebody like a gentleman, General Westmoreland. This man is like a mayor of Houston. So there was a discussion about this fellow

01:17:54--> 01:18:31

that fly American who went to Ethiopia and the plane fell for the United Nations. And he died. Yes, yes, I remember you remember him. So now they want to rename the Houston airport after his name, Leland, Leland Hill. So they want to make it Leland international introduced an international. So this man Westmoreland said Why not call it nigger international and the old Afro Americans? Well, they should have they had exquisite bad manners. It's awful. Dude, what is the colloquy here? And I laugh it off.

01:18:32--> 01:18:34

So they call Unicode? This is a laugh it off?

01:18:35--> 01:19:15

Something serious. They call you Uncle Tom says no, something serious. I didn't call you Uncle Tom. So you become Uncle Tom. It depends on the person, the one at the receiving end? How does he feel? So when I'm presenting to this guy calls you such and such? How do you feel? He calls you Americans? I did not say what equals Americans isn't what he calls the British, the everybody hates the Americans. Everyone even listens to you know that the old world hates. But if I use that word, you see if it was your son, who has been religion, he might punch me on the jaw. Do you know what they say about this program, the people that don't like it, they call

01:19:16--> 01:19:56

but now personally see is not personal. It is impersonal thing. The program is rubbish and like this, and like that, people can say anything about it that you but when it comes to something personal, talking about your mother, talking about your wife, your sister, your daughter, then the man reacts. And if he punches you in the jaw is justified. You see. So now I only have to remind the British, this is what this guy says about user. This is what he says you American. This is what he says about user and everywhere I went around there 100% behind me says no, this is not done. This is not done. I agree. It's not done. So that is the guy who does the area that the guy must pay the

01:19:56--> 01:19:59

price. So I said look maybe maybe

01:20:00--> 01:20:14

You see now you are you have cultivated yourself into a type of mentality. You have so much things thrown at you. So like here now call me Cooley is an insert. Are you saying kuli? kuli? kuli means a laborer look, yeah, I like it like the Chinese.

01:20:15--> 01:20:25

The Indians were brought here for indentured laborers cutting sugar again. So they call them maybe call them cooling i saw i didn't know how to have that the Indian becomes a coolie

01:20:27--> 01:21:07

every Indian. So there was a time when I used to react. But now I reach a state now. I said you have also seen a bit cleverness. You're also coolly known to labor CSA. Well, that's what it means. You are a laborer. But I know when he says Cooley is trying to hurt me. And then it hurts. You see, the word itself is nothing like the English man, cause the African in South Africa Bula. Bula means a farm. They are farming people as a whole. There's nothing wrong with that. But when the Englishman says boo in the back of his mind is backward, elastic. That's what he's saying. Never as simple as that.

01:21:08--> 01:21:50

That's what he's saying. This is Buddha. Well meaning the meaning of the word. There's nothing wrong with the word. But when you are battling it gets convinced certain meanings. Same thing to the African he calls the English people ruin it. ruin it ruin rednecks, or roya. neck. Okay, read him in Afrikaans it means rednecks. Meaning your software softies you're going to sound a little and you get red in the red, like the red Indians called you pay off a face and you call them red Indians. Right? I don't know whether there's any sting in the in the word paint face, but not in this word. But in the word ruminate there is a stain. In the word Buddha there is a stain in the word coolie

01:21:50--> 01:22:37

there is a stain. Not because there is a stain on it, it still it hurts. Because there is a sting. When you add it. You want to hurt me so it hurts me. Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt. That's a philosophy. Look, it's true. It's a philosophy. But even so, you know, I'm the people call wasps you know, white, Anglo Saxon Protestant. I'm a wasp, right? And everything about the wasps is bad, they stain they do all this business, everything is bad. Now if I spent the rest of my life huddled in a corner, crying or afraid to walk out, because God warned me, right, a white Anglo Saxon Protestant, right? I wouldn't ever go out, I wouldn't do anything. Yeah, I can

01:22:37--> 01:23:25

still love the people who don't like the program, and who would call me a wasp. And I don't like older white ladies, or whatever you call, or call me a prude, or call me. There are 1000 bad words you could apply to me, I'm quite sure. But I simply must feel and think of myself as much as I can live it as a child of God, who is trying the best I can with all of my faults to live as I believe that God made me to live and love my fellow man, and if they sling filth and mud and and I've had in justices inside my family, outside my family, in my work in my business, but I must forget and forgive as fast as possible. Do you not feel that? That? That the Mohammed that God as the Mohammed

01:23:25--> 01:23:38

and Muslim Muslims see him? Yes. And experience Him? Would he not have forgiveness in his heart and so I'm not calling forgiveness of God, he can forgive on the legs.

01:23:39--> 01:23:46

But now without the law. You see, we say we have no right to forgive. For example, a man commits murder.

01:23:47--> 01:23:59

I like the follow image. I like that murder, for some reason, previous reason, my contact with the man. But now the evidence that is brought before me is that cold blooded murder, the man committed

01:24:00--> 01:24:32

must have passed judgment on whether or not you see I am a servant of the law, the law, the law, I must carry out the law. I love the man, but I can't help it. He can be my son. I can't help it. You have to apply. I have to apply the law. Now God Almighty in his wisdom, he can forgive. That's his business. He can reward him a million fold on the other side. There's a look. I think you were a bit harshly treated my son. You know, you deserve heavens, and who is and gardens flowing with milk and honey. That's his business.

01:24:34--> 01:24:37

Man construction is the law of the land says you should be shocked

01:24:39--> 01:24:51

is not for me to say this guy do so many hospitals and he's been running orphanages. These he commits an act of treason or not. is what is the law? The law says should so now I carry out the law.

01:24:56--> 01:24:59

See and all those people in South Africa have people outside the country.

01:25:00--> 01:25:08

who committed treason and they committed murder the the Afrikaners or the white South Africans have a hit squad of some kind.

01:25:09--> 01:25:44

And those men committed murder right now, would you under the laws of Islam? Would they all be put to death? Or would one side be forgiven and the other side not be forgiven? Or would they all be amnesty? I think you see, because to me is if I look at it that this was a war and declared war between the two, yes. So assets to me, this was war. And now we have come to this war has come to a halt. He says, forget about the past. And let's reconstruct the country with on a new principle of forgiving forget

01:25:45--> 01:25:46

about both sides.

01:25:48--> 01:26:00

Well, if I said if you if you have to punish the one side, you must punish the other side. And there is no end to it. There won't be any end to that. So recrimination carries on and it can still lead to further bloodshed.

01:26:02--> 01:26:40

So with all the let's assume for a minute, this is assumption I'm not making accurate let's assume that there were x numbers of murders committed on the outside revolutionary side and X number of murders committed on the inside white Police Squad. Everybody should be equal and they should all do this, forget about the thing and carry on from here. But Mr. Rushdie should be executed on his his different case altogether, because now he is not repentant at all. He is going on further and further. He wants to broadcast this further, more and more. This is good. Have you seen 40 people have already paid with the lives 40 Muslims have died? So many women have been widowed so many

01:26:40--> 01:27:19

children often because of his pin poison panel, how I didn't know that. How do they in India in Pakistan, you didn't hear about the protest marches. And they were shut down, because now they're marching under the British Embassy or the marching on to the American Embassy. So the government is forced to stop it. And the guys are worked. They want to go in March and lay the protest. So they're shot by the old governments but 40 people have given their lives for this one management mistake. Okay, but look at all the hundreds of people that gave their lives on both sides for the ANC. And I'm just using that as an example. It could be the others too. And the white hit squad. The women

01:27:19--> 01:27:19

are chosen and

01:27:20--> 01:27:25

the Muslims have died. Yeah, Bruce Lee. He's in safety is enjoying having a jolly good time

01:27:27--> 01:27:28

with his millions.

01:27:29--> 01:28:01

And he is unrepentant. He said, Look, he has done something that is right. So this guy is more dangerous than it was armies. We have been visiting today with shaking out harsh, a DDoS deedat, President of the Islamic Propagation center international in Durban, South Africa on the 16th day of February 1990. Thank you. I'm sure we could go on for another hour or two with all of the things that we have. But thank you Mr. Dida for the time today. God bless