Channel: Ahmed Deedat
© No part of this transcript may be copied or referenced or transmitted in any way whatsoever. Transcripts are auto-generated and thus will be be inaccurate. We are working on a system to allow volunteers to edit transcripts in a controlled system.
What does john do? JOHN, what do you do? I work for Howard Baptist Church here in westville. And us have
a foreign mission board, Southern Baptist Convention. And
my assignment is here with the Natal Baptist Association as a campus chaplain.
Student ministry. Yes. Yes, ma'am. Sorry. Yes. That's nice. So we are all in the same field. But we might have different goals.
Or the means of attaining them? I guess. So.
Yes, it's a privilege for me to be honored. To James. Christian.
I don't know.
You may be the only person who would say that of us. are giants? Yes. Certainly a privilege for us to be with unquestionable giants of the Islamic world. And no, my office is open to all at all times. Actually, people don't make appointments. And I don't I also don't make it. Because then you tie yourself down. Timmy. Anybody comes along? This is right. What am I doing?
Let them come in. Welcome. Welcome.
Intelligent disposal. Good. Intel? Well, you said to me on the phone the other day that you
you did see the tapes of one of my other friends were here. I didn't think my son must have told you that your son, my son is the man
that used to do that. So you didn't get the first word uses Joseph Joseph did it. It says you can do a deed it like yours, Mark, I'll catch our mark, john, and the rest of
the things that turn his turn. Now, again, this, it'll be difficult because I didn't get a name like that before. Right. So this is how the mind works. Yes, yes.
What can I do for you? Well, my interest and
the interest? Maybe I need to give you some background on it while we be here. Yes, yes. I used to do that.
for three weeks ago, now, while you were in on your trip overseas.
We had a news correspondent, who's here from
he lives in Nairobi, Kenya, but he works for the same foreign mission board that I worked for. Well set a photographer and then one of their spirits were here. They were interested in writing a story. He is on the Islamic Propagation center he is and finding out if we could some of your methods of training and teaching and some of your goals and that kind of thing. Not in any kind of way to expose for any kind of counter attack or any of that but just because we're interested in the nuts and bolts of Europe, very aggressive and sort of very effective approach. I would say no, we're not against you say militant would be more appropriate militant. Okay, militant, like Jesus Christ, as
you know, who has a very aggressive person according to the Scriptures, calling people generation a whitelist, the white acceptors wicked and adulterous generation, SS
men have gotten like that sources. And now
according to your records,
I see sounds very, very aggressive. And he is actually going out looking for trouble. Because when you call the leaders of your nation, the religious hierarchy, wicked an adulterous generation, and in common parlance, you know, so, how do you translate that? This is a wicked and adulterous generation television, you know, the man is actually looking for a shoulder. So, if he gets what's coming to him as he deserves it. So, however,
militant, Islam is militant,
there's no apologies for that. You see, the Quran tells us
to tell you and the Jews
all in Arabic we say we are told to say tell them
yeah, look it up. So people have the book, or Jews and Christians laughter Hulu feed it says do not go to extremes in your religion.
In your religion, whatever you believe, don't go to extremes. Vallarta kulu, Allah, Allah Hillel, Huck, and don't say anything about God except the truth. In namale mercy, most sadly, the Messiah,
Jesus Christ. He said Maria, Jesus, the son of Mary Rasulullah is a messenger of God. locali motto and the word proceeding from him. Altamaha, Illa, Maria Maria Missy bestowed upon Mary and a spirit proceeding from him, for me will be
so believe in Allah, God Almighty and His Messenger Jesus.
This is the true position that he is a mighty messenger of God. He is the Messiah. Believe in God
His Messenger Jesus.
So we are told to tell you both Jews and Christians don't go to extremes about Jesus. The Jews in the Talmud, they say that because he had no earthly father.
Actually, they insinuate that a certain Roman soldier by the name of Bandera he raped Mary, if you come across that before,
not familiar. You read Josh McDowell. Josh right now he has written a book, further evidence that Demands a Verdict. Aha. He had the evidence that Demands a Verdict. And then he wrote another one for further evidence. And in that he quotes Jewish Talmud where they're calling Jesus a bastard. More than once that the bastard son of Bandera the bastard. This is quoted by your Campus Crusade, the leader of the Campus Crusade,
bright learner or by Josh McDowell. Josh McDowell is quoting from the Jewish Talmud, okay, that this is what the Jews say that is the bastard child of Mary, raped by a Roman soldier and gave off as the Son of God. The Christians, they say that because I've got no earthly father, his father is God.
So we are told us No, they're both going to extremes.
The Jew is going to extreme, telling the Jew don't go to extremes in your religion. You Christians don't go to extremes in your religion. The true position is that is a mighty messenger of God. He was born miraculously. We are made to accept that I think the Quran tells us that he was born miraculously, in which many modern day Christians, including the bishops of the Anglican Church didn't believe today. Directors but we believe
as that he gave life to the dead by God's permission, he healed those born blind and the lepers by God's permission. This is the Cooper's is the word of God is the spirit from God, but he's not God. Don't go to extremes. You don't go to extreme you use you don't go to extreme. This is the proposition. This is our standpoint. So we are told, and this language of the Quran is militant.
This is not software being said, you know,
please you Christians don't interfere with us. You know, we pray five times a day, and we don't drink and we don't gamble and we fast for a whole month. You know, leave us alone in peace. None. We are told to tell you, you Jews and Christians don't go to extremes in your religion. And don't say anything about God. Except that is befitting the truth. So Islam is a religion, the Quran is a militant book. But when you say aggressive, I think that term is not called for that. Okay. militant. Okay, militant. Yes, Islam is military. It tells you, it tells me to tell you well, Lata kulu thalassa
don't say Trinity. This is the language of the Quran, telling me to tell you don't say Trinity, voila, Taku selasa. into this topic, it will be better for you in nama La Villa Why? For your God is one God has not been one. So we are told what to tell you. This is not out of trying to be different from you, or trying to score points on you. This is an article of faith with us that we are supposed to tell you rectify you. Don't talk about Trinity. Don't say that Jesus is God, you're gonna go to hell. The Quran says you will go to hell.
So it is my duty if my people didn't do it.
If they didn't do it, we are at fault. We haven't done the job. But then I see what I see. And I understand. Very, very
so so succinctly put, we have to share but in the process, people are feeling that the guy is attacking.
I'm attacking your religion, the foundation of your faith. Because if there's no Trinity, there's no Christianity.
Because Jesus has to be called to die on the cross. One man dying, he can die for the sins of the world. john the baptist, he was beheaded for his sins zacchara he was killed for his sins. The Jews killed many prophets for his sins. Nobody sent.
So Jesus Christ if he died as a man, it's worthless. Many men have died, but they don't get a sense of the of mankind. So you have to believe that Jesus is God. And as God incarnate He died for your sins, so he can wash away redeem you from your sins. Right? So the Quran says no, he is not God. He is not the Son of God.
He was not crucified. Now everything is so militantly put, don't say that. Don't talk like that. And then in others, we're
called to students.
to say, yeah kita
Illa Kalimantan server environment available that will come to common terms as between SMU, let us get onto a common platform, the Muslim is made to ask the Jews and Christian,
let us come on to a common platform and the terms and conditions of getting together.
The Quran says, Allah, Allah, Allah, that we worship men, but Allah
will be shaken and that we associate no partners with him
about the Nevada Nevada law, and that we do not take from among ourselves, loads and patrons other than God, like a bishop, or a pope, you know, whatever he says, He says, ditto, ditto. No, you and I, we are all personally responsible to God, for what we think and how we believe we are responsible, isn't we are not to be led by the nose, by our priests, our predictions, our bishops, or folks are more reasonable on us.
Go to God, and to go to God is this go to the his book, the book of God?
Let us see, let us come with let us reason together.
There's only one God, Father in heaven, he's of your God.
And his name in the Semitic languages is Allah.
The name of God Almighty, in the language of Moses, Jesus and Muhammad is Allah.
The Quran tells us call him by enemy,
as long as that name is not contaminated, meaning
suppose you ask me what's the name of God?
And if I told you his name is Muhammad,
immediately have a mental picture of a camel driver. Once on 600 years after Jesus born in Makkah, his father's if you read his biography, his father's name was Abdullah, his mother's name was Amina and so on. And I know is that your God? You have a mental picture. As soon as you have a mental picture in Islam is forbidden.
That name is not befitting for them. It is his name is Rama. If you read the story of Rama, Rama Anna
Yes, I know. He had a wife called Sita and she was abducted by the king of Ceylon and taken over 12 years. I have a picture, mental picture. You see his name is Christ. Ah, yes, the child born in the stable to a Jewish girl, circumcised on the eighth day.
elementary teacher, then at the age of 12, he conformed to the learned men in the temple. And then at the age of 30, is baptized with john the baptist, and at the age of 33, according to your reports, kill them, then we will
have a mental picture. Immediately. That picture for God is rejected. You don't use any terms of expressions, which creates a mental picture.
A column by any name God Almighty, because his are the most beautiful, meaning His attributes. Call him a loving father in heaven. Call him his merciful this time is only calling what you like, but don't use terms and expressions which contaminate the picture. Yes, yes. But not loving father.
Loving fathers. Okay.
Yes. You see, I'm not associated.
I'm not militant. I don't want to be okay. Yes, I
would, would not that question would not that's what a loving father I guess is okay. But just father, because whatever person has a bad part
analysis, I think I have solved that problem. Okay, Islam has solved it for us. You see, in the Quran.
We are given 99 attributes of God. I think you must have heard that before. I think so.
That we in Islam, we know him by his attributes.
There is no other way we can know Him.
Because he's not like a man or a monkey is not like an like an elephant or a snake that you cannot goddess like this or like that is nothing like that. But we know him by his attributes. We say God is holy.
That's his attribute. holiness is absolutely is a He is merciful, that this attribute is compassionate. He is all knowing his omniscience. These are his attributes. So in those attributes that the Muslim is given, is given 9999 attributes coming through the lips of a person who didn't know how to read or write a man who couldn't sign his own name.
And yet he's giving you 99 attributes with a crowning name a lot as a proper name for God Almighty, in Semitic languages, Allah but with 99 attributes
but in those 99
attributes father is not one of them.
That's amazing. Because any clever man, you come across DD, or professors of psychology, philosophy, whatever, and who is a believer in a creator? And if you asked him, he said, Look, mental analysis, I want you to give me some attributes of God, according to your learning, education, understanding. So he will start.
He starts with, let's say that his time
is merciful as Yes, His Holiness, is compassionate say, Yes, he's loving Father in heaven. So yes,
within the first half a dozen,
the man must come because the word father,
the Father in heaven, loving Father in heaven, and that attribute is not in the Quran. But first time asking us is not look, the cleverest of us.
He can go beyond it doesn't
You can't go beyond a dozen. And within the first half a dozen father is one of them.
Father will be one of them, you know the Father in heaven.
This man, he's surrounded by Jews and Christians in Medina. And you'll keep on hearing what the do say. And the Christian said, the loving Father in heaven, the Father in heaven. But now that word father is not one of those attributes.
So the question arises, why? Why should the father be not included? Because in Arabic, and Hebrew stands for father
ABB father in Hebrew, father in Arabic,
because he's identical languages, you know, actually dialects of the same language are Arabic and Hebrew.
This word is so easy on everybody's tongue.
But instead the Quran says
in the first verse of the Quran Alhamdulillah Rabbil aalameen All praise is due to Allah, the law rapid Lord jerusha sustainer evolver of mankind
it would have been easier.
And again and again in the Quran, rabbit and rabbit, rabbit, Lord cherisher sustained evolve. So why would he go out of his way to produce a hardwood?
hardwood, then up to Sarah rock, rap.
So I'm telling people I said, you see words, in the origins, they might have beautiful connotations.
Like people who are like companions, the companions of the Prophet or the disciples of Jesus, we would use the word in Arabic companions. Because companion you sit and eat together, companies breaking bread together, the French word, meaning you know, we are like that is comedy
is a beautiful word for
our relationship. But today that word is so contaminated at one time in America, if somebody called you a comedy, I think you're in trouble. This is this guy's a commie. And they'll start to follow the FBI or whoever, they will start following you up to see where does this guy go?
This simple English word gay,
gay, I learned it in school, you know, in a poetry form. That's how they taught us you know, so many things. I read a poetry
says saying gentle lords and ladies gay on the mountain Dawn's the day I forget the rest of it. I'm looking for that. You know, because I just remember these two lines. But it's quite a long point. Not very long, but it's a long way. I wonder if you remember that. Gentle lords and ladies day on the mountain Dawn's the day nice to see that. And at school in my primary classes is to sing it. So
it forward and I get used to describe it was very happy and gay. His address
is oozing with happiness isn't just like a happy and joyous follow. That's what you meant.
Now, as I'm growing older, and reading the newspapers for the first time, the word geek appearing, but I don't get the joke. You know, something to say about gay, you know, newspapers,
say after my team maybe around the 20s when I was around 2025 going on, and reading the word gay.
And it doesn't seem to click in my mind with what I know about gay. But still I don't get the job what is all about? I don't know. And it carries on and on and on gay, gay, gay. I'm getting more and more shocks and it took me a long time to know what they're talking about.
Talking about sodomites. But now they use the word gay, but it was an innocent word. Now I can say Mr. Mark and john are very big. I can take it as an offense and they should rightly be taken as an offense. So in its origin, the word is good, beautiful day comedy, but in time, it acquires other connotations. And once it happens, we'll be dropping for our normal usage. We drop it as a technical term for sodomites. It's, it's okay, but not for our relationship. You know, you find Mr. D that you
find your happy and joyous fellow, if you want to use that other word.
Same thing to the word father. Beautiful.
But now, it has been contaminated with the idea of the only begotten Son.
See, Jesus is the only begotten Son. And in your catechism, I don't know whether the Baptist have a different catechism to that of the Anglican Church, the Methodist Church, the Lutheran Church.
I don't know whether you have a different catechism. But in the Anglican catechism, it says, Jesus is the only begotten Son, begotten, not made.
You remember reading that, john? 316? No, no, no. But in the Catechism, say we don't have those.
Based on that now, john 316. They say Jesus is the only begotten son be gotten not made. Now when you said we got and well, Luke is that we can explain or reset understand as this what you mean?
Because beginning as an animal act, it belongs to the Lord animal functions effects. Are you attributing such a quality to God? Mark? Is No, no, no, I don't mean that you say, you will try and explain to me what you understand what it means.
But as you see, Mark, you are creating a problem with me now, even my people we have an understanding this should be gotten be getting in English is an animal act, it belongs to the lower animal functions of sex. Can you attribute such equality to God? Is No, no, no, no, I'm not saying that. You say, you know, whatever explanation, but now when you say be God and not made,
now you're going out of your way to emphasize what it actually means. We got a Not me, john, my son. You know, suppose he visits me a number of times, they respect me, although we are at variance. But still, he respects me, I respect him. And I said, john, my son, john, my son, no, my son, and if we know, our families better, I visit him at home one day with my friends. And I'm asking his mum and dad, where's john, my son?
Is, is this going to be back just now? and john returns? And we Eastern people like Arabs and Jews, we embrace one another. And
we sit down to check.
My companion who doesn't know relationship
is asking me is is really a son.
This young man, he loves me like a father like an old uncle like a grandfather. He calls me, dad, Grandpa, whatever he calls me. And I call him a son. No problem. JOHN, no problem. I know john one object is mom and dad one object. But instead I said yes. He's my begotten son. If he understands English,
he knows what it means. So yes, he's my son.
What am I saying? His uncle What did you say? I said, I don't mean that.
He's asking what what what are you trying to imply What are you insinuating? As a no no, john, that don't make that what you're thinking of what it means. But I'm still telling my companion Doesn't it look like my use of the tone?
What am I say? I think he's a bastard
in the most beautiful language. Here my only concern
is becoming by me.
term sounds so endearing. Sounds so nice, you know, but actually, I'm swearing you in the most diplomatic manner. They got a busted and again and again I'm repeating he looks like my son means I had something to do with his mother is a bastard guess it says not words nowadays, over a period is used in a certain manner. It creates other meanings connotations. So this connotation now the Muslim objects very strongly.
Don't talk like that. You see, in our worldly affairs, we are more circumspect respectful in what we say.
My people, I wasn't going to visit your home. See your wife as a Hello, my dear, darling, sweetheart. We don't do that. Maybe up for the Western nations. You know, you get used to that time when you call somebody your friend's wife. Hello, my dear, my darling. My sweetheart. is a pincher
I said, We don't do that to say we are still particular with the terms that you use. So when we are so
circumspect with regards to the terminology we use between ourselves, we ordinarily don't call people by anyhow, the way you like it, you address the people with respect, Mr. D, dad, or uncle or whatever it is, you don't just go along and see the guy, you know, roughshod as you like the old guys used to do, you know, you could do this and that you don't do that. Maybe what you have in your heart that your business between you and God Almighty, but between our own relationship with you don't use certain terms of expression. So this term father
is removed from the terminal religious terminology of Islam is never used because it's contaminated. Otherwise, remain the loving Father in heaven. Do you say that? A lot people Western, as you say, Father, the father's had been molesting their own children, their old, three year old and five year old daughters and the sense
of the sodomizing their own sons, not stepsons own sense and regular churchgoer that
in the community, the guy is a very, very good fellow is a very religious guy. He never misses jet services. But the guy is sodomizing his three year old, a five year old. So you talk to him about the loving father.
He's what some other pictures.
The mind exit. So
fortunately, I think for the Muslims, this term is true. We don't use the term, but to me as it by itself.
So nothing wrong with the term. Except that is now contaminated. Yes, ma'am. Thank you. That's a good answer. It's another question. Yes, ma'am. But I know that, in fact, Craig, when we were here, I hope you get a chance to do that. Good. I would. I just can't know you're busy. But Craig was asking I think young man was Mohammed was gonna say you
are not showing man. Another African chef we talked to you on all night. I think Adam did.
The one that's doing the translation. Okay.
Well, anyway, Greg, and Warren photographer bought each bought a copy of the translated put on one of the questions well, I don't think was sufficiently answered, isn't it? Is it not true that among many Muslims, I think the Quran should not be translated in English.
And what it is that it can be translated
any religious literature, any religious literature, for that matter, spiritual matters, you can really translate, you are trying to give an
approximate meaning. So this translation, I think the man says, This is the meaning of the Glorious Quran. Actually, it's what you said translation of the guy, he wants his translation because the language is so rich, Hebrew, Greek, suppose that thing was said in the original language. You can actually translate that because in the original language, what it means, like the Englishman speaking about his beautiful fiancee, he says she is a beach.
She is a beach. I know what he means is that she has a picture of perfection and looks in behavior. She is perfect. That's what he's trying to say. your fiancee, she's the beach. Your wife is this is the beach. Nothing wrong with it. But now if I translate that into Zulu, so Oh, God, can I purchase? You know, his wife is the features are in Afrikaans? I don't know who is the best cuz
English people in business, they have features for wives, three shillings that doesn't?
No, no. See, I have to understand that in the length that the person is speaking. What is he trying to tell me? Like Jesus Christ is talking in English, Jewish
criminology. He says let the dead bury the dead.
So the problem arises, how can you get people buried dead people?
So if you if you didn't have an understanding, it's a problem and will remain
impractical? How can the people come out of the grave if your father died?
I said, Look, let the dead bury the dead. That's what he told that young man, you know, when he came to him and said, Now look, what must I do? So I told him keep the laws on the commandments. Look, I kept it from my childhood.
Then he says, Look, he's tried to be too clever, says, look, sell everything you have got and follow me.
And you have done everything. Now you want something higher than that. The only thing is now dedicate yourself full time for the work of God.
So because of his much speaking, he got caught out. He says no, I'm perfect and I keep the laws in the country.
And everything I do now, what?
Novosel yoga, so follow me.
my father has died.
You know, let me go and bury him, and then I will come back. This is getting out of the difficulties once he's gone, he's gone. But now it's embarrassing. Now what to say, instead of going very My Father, Jesus is lifted?
Because I understand and maybe I think you understand what he's trying to say.
But now, literally, is a nonsensical? How can did people bury the people?
or seeing they see not hearing the hearing? or neither do they understand? So what language is it? You see me? You see Mr. D, that and they say you don't see. And you hearing and you say don't yet and you don't understand, what is he talking about? So we have to understand that the mere translation without an understanding in the background, what the man is implying in his language to his people, what did it convey to them, if they were trying to receive that message properly without wanting to enforce or you can find faults with anything, but what did it mean? So similarly, similarly, a translation is a translation. But we are more fortunate than any other religious groups
that we have the same Quran still available. So within alexina this man translates it like this. Yes, but the Quran is there, because this Arabic word, I mean, of course, you go to this
dialogue, and you have to hear it side by side with us all the time, almost all the time in every translation is there then somebody has translated it with a difference in words?
Yeah, what is the original word here? I said, Look, that other person is closer to the meaning of what the Quran is trying to say what God is trying to say. Then so and so his understanding might have been different,
is limited. Like I saw a translation
of this Quranic verse we are told, do not marry Russian women, until they believe means idolatrous woman, don't marry them until they believe.
A slave woman who believes is better for you as a spouse, as a wife, then emotionally commit an adulterous woman, even if she eludes you, she fascinating.
This is no Muslim men. Don't allow your daughters to marry mushriks idol idol worshipers until they believe until they're converted. A slave man who believes is better for you, as your brother in law as your son in law, then emotionally, an adulterous person,
even if it's the prime minister of the country, so what?
They are inviting you to Hellfire, because Allah is inviting to his gender is paradise and his forgiveness. Why do you leave this and go for that? Now, that's a translation, which I understand and idolatrous person, machinery, machinery, associates, other persons with God machinery.
So I see an end Translation by an Arab.
He uses the word pagan, say do not marry pagan women. Now the pagans of Makkah, were idolatrous people.
But not today. The word pagan
doesn't mean that
in our UCC, I don't know whether in America what it means. But when we are talking about pagans, he said, Look, there are so many Christians among the Africans. And so many pagans among the Africans. There may be some who have converted to Islam.
But the major part is Christian and pagan.
In Africa, the Africans, the majority of them are either Muslims, Christians, or pagans. You heard the term
is used commonly. So pagan doesn't mean an idol worshipper. Because no Africans have this MDC ever worship idols.
They didn't worship idols. They had a concept of God,
which to me, is one of the noblest concepts of God the applicants, long before the white man came here to see the African Zulu. He called God Almighty.
So I'm asking him, what is
the term you use before the mighty in his language? So he tells me, he said names that sir, who
is the pure and holy spirit of ghazali Anna Fujioka Silva, he does not be getting is not be caught.
footie, Abu tolovana, NY and there is nothing like into him.
That is the highest concept you can have of God. It's not like anything you can think of imagined. It's not like a man or a monkey. But the only thing is that he hasn't accepted Christianity. So the Christians call him pagan. I says, No, he's a true believer in God.
To me, he is nearer to God than you with apologies. When my Hindu cousins,
they worship men in monkeys, elephants and snakes, this African didn't do that. The you the white people, you gave the Zulus, a name to call his brother, who does not who doesn't go to church who doesn't believe in Jesus Christ. But he believes in God. He knows that the 10 commandments, he knows ethics and morality he knew before the white man came here, he knew that ooping into Ephesus.
Adultery was evil, talking lasers evil, murder was evil. All this he knew before the white boss came here,
but you still causing pagan? I said, He's not a pagan.
He's a true man of God.
He's closer to me than you are, you are closer to me in so many other respects, as a Christian, also closer to the Jew in so many respects. But this guy in the concept of God, he is a closer to me than you.
And you call him a pagan? So not that guy translates as pagan, as
is the wrong translation? No, I mean, the wrong term you used to us the minds of the people that the Africans or take that my daughter can marry an African? No, it doesn't say that. Or a Bushman, or he believes in God is not a pagan.
So the correct translation has been an idolatrous person do not marry idolaters, as the Bible says, In the book of Leviticus, and an idolater, or an idolatrous Thou shall not marry. So we hold on to that. I don't take other beings as gods, those people you don't marry, you don't marry them, and you don't allow their sons to marry your daughters. This is so choice of words, in the choice I wouldn't have fortunately, because the word is there, no shake. I know what it means in that the word pagan doesn't convey that. But to the man who translated it. In his mind,
all the Hindus are pagans, as you know, they're not pagans. They are Hiroshi, but they're not pagans, in the sense of using for the African people in Africa, these Africans are not pagans.
Is my point very clear. And I think I understand it that we do have problems, you know, coming from one language to the other. This is one of the
and we thought the same thing coming from the Greek in the Hebrew language, English and that kind of thing. Why does know? What does the guy in Central Africa know what is No? Okay. Give me the weight of the coconut.
And I like the white of the coconut is my real question in that regard, is, is one of the aims of the Islamic Propagation center to get
the Quran into the hands of a common person who may in his lifetime, ever have the chance to learn Arabic skill, and given some of the dangers or problems of translation, and at least to get
close to the kind of getting to the middle is that one of the things that you're about here to try to be willing to see that popularize? Shall I say, they can make it possible for every sudo every Cause every trauma, if I can have the Quran,
in his mother tongue,
I would go out to do that, as well as to the English speaking people. And the African speaking people, not to this message is a message for mankind. So the very first verse of the Quran,
very first verse is not addressed to Arabs, or Muslims. It says, Al hamdu Lillahi Rabbil alameen. All peace is due to Allah, the cherisher sustainer. You
have the translations mankind, that's also translated mankind is not mankind? is Allah mean? Allah in Arabic means the world. And Allah mean means
the universe, that's an extra word, but now for convenience sake, the main translators?
Who was mankind?
Please be to God, the cherishing session of the gods here was that somebody would say mankind as you translate that one fight with you, okay? You mean well, but the actual word in Arabic is whoops. And our translator he says here,
the Arabic word
right, we express only one aspect of it when we say inhemeter God case for all the words in the Arabic word rapper usually translated Lord, as also the meaning of cherishing, sustaining, bringing to maturity. God care for all the words he has created. There are many words after all,
canonical and physical worlds worlds of thought, spiritual rules and so on. In every one of them, God is all in all. The Express only one aspect of it when we say in him we live and move and have our being the mystical division between number one NASUWT the human world knowable by the sensors, to melaku, the invisible world of angels and three LaHood the divine world of reality requires volume, the whole volume to explain it says, In this editing, because it's talking about the universe. So we said, Now somebody says of mankind, okay, you know, possible, but instead now men can What about when we reach the other planets? And we find another planet on whom there are other
creatures, intelligent enough that we can communicate with? What about for them?
They are not mankind, you know, men, can we understand what we are, but there might be some other type of creatures quite intelligent, maybe like the eggs, you know, our size? And they are ruling that that part of the world? What about for them? They are and kind of mankind? As is it for them as well? Yes, this book says yes, it's also for them. It's not for Arabs, or for Jews, or for white or blacks is for the all the world. So are you? Are you seen among many of the Muslim world is somewhat of a
turned my music
upside for our non traditional in your desire to put the words of the Quran into the
vernacular of the common people common? You know, so like you said, so that goes on Zulu swana. Is that not a sort of a new thing?
For you to be taking this approach?
Please, I'm not trying to trip you up in any way. I'm just asking for half Jemima.
Any question was put to me. In all honesty, I was accepted that you're asking in all sincerity, and I must, to the best of our ability to respond to the law since it is there is no catch as catch Can you know, I want to catch you out or you want to catch me out? I don't I don't believe in that. Man. You might ask me something very silly. To me is not silly. Okay, maybe is your background is making you to say those things that in a silly form.
I think you mean well unless you persist. When I pointed out this is no mark, you say Look, man, this is not fair. You hitting under the bed. And you still insist then so now this guy's out for mischief. Otherwise, I accept it. You see, the message is for the whole of mankind. That's what the Quran says. And because of that reverence we have for the Quranic Arabic, which we believe is the word of God. Literally given is it unlike the Bible, now, as the Christians believe, was inspired by God, holy men, they were moved by the Holy Spirit to write what they were moved to write. And they wrote in their own words,
according to the world, maybe the vocabulary at their disposal. They wrote down according to their own background experience, they tend to put into words, but God, visit tickler whatever they were tickled to say or to do, they did it. But in their own words, the words are the words of men.
Even if you're inspired by God,
that means that your humanity comes in into what you are transcribing. The Quran, we believe is not like that.
The Holy Prophet Muhammad,
he was no prophet. Then at the age of 40. he happened to be in a cave, some three miles north of the city of Mecca. It was according to our history now, it was the 27th month of Ramadan is our fasting month, there was no fasting maintain. This was a seasonal man of the Arabs.
And he's in the cave alone. And he sees a vision in which the Archangel Gabriel commands him in his mother tongue.
Which means to breed. No human being unless it
naturally is terrified. And he says My car is that I'm not learned
that as a
learner in that I'm not learning. So in the comments, I'm a second time
read. And again, this is not an avatar it is that I'm not learning. For the third time the angel of God says this Mayra McCullough hallak.
Read in the name of the Lord in cherisher, who created so Muhammad not grasped that what he was required to do was to repeat, because this Arabic word means to read to decide to rehearse, to repeat, it is all the senses, but he was thinking of the first primary sensory
Also to repeat, so he repeated the words.
Halak. soccerloco in sannomiya Allah, so He created man from India.
Some Ahmed says, Allah,
Allah can read and the Lord is most bountiful. So he said,
Allah will column says he who taught the use of the pen is Allah, Allah, Allah.
Allah, Allah taught men, that routine will not change.
This was the first five verses.
And as soon as the angel departed, sweating all over, terrified, and he runs back homes and three months out to dry
for the job, and he says, cover me up, cover me. So she covers. When he gets out of his excitement, he explains to her what he had seen and what he had heard, fearing something has gone wrong.
Because he was not bargaining for this. This was not a graduating ceremony that he was now prepared for the governing ceremony and you look forward to it. He was not looking forward to any such experiences. So he's terrified. He's terrified
of people being possessed, maybe something has gone wrong with me now. So she
will not allow such a thing to happen to you.
Now, these five verses,
you open it, in the Quran, they are not the first verses of the Quran.
We are the 96th chapter. That's amazing.
Xena, a shoe what is the difference? Now people are having a problem with the Quran. Because we are thinking in human terms, in our own experiences, every book on Earth, I'm telling you, now, religious book is on a once upon a time basis. Once upon a time, once upon a time, once upon a time, you know, that type of learning the father and the grave open the lamp, that is the level on which every book is talking. First thing starts first, In the beginning, God created. This is how a book ought to begin. In the beginning was the Word and this is how this is a genealogy of Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the son of Abraham, and Abraham, Isaac, and Isaac and Jacob and Jacob, Judas and
his brother. This is how all biographies became
all biographies. This is how I'm a leader, born in 1918, in a village in India, this disregard that that you know, to Hussein, the that and Fatima so and so. So, this is how old stories begin. This thing is something unusual. All of a sudden, you see this first revelation, you ask anybody, Muslim or non Muslim to tell you this or the first revelation? But where is it now you look, start looking for it in the Quran. And you can't find it.
Because we're looking for it. The beginning is at look at the beginning is not there. So, if you ask somebody who knows this is not it is the 96 chapter 99 to 296. It starts with the chapter starts. The chapter starts this new life,
in the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. Start vismara because he Hallock and the translation proclaim, read in the name of the Lord international trade. In Salomon, Allah created
this, do you find there's nothing about what I told you just now, I said, you see, he was in a cave, some three miles north of the city of Makkah. He was 40 years old. And she used to retire to this place for a peaceful fight in contemplation, worrying about the problems of his people.
And on the 27th of the month of Ramadan, when he's alone, he sees this vision and he's terrified and I will respond.
But when you read here is not there. All the story is not there. In the Quran is not there to just start.
Luck. Hello, Colleen, Santa min Allah.
Allah, Allah, Allah, Allah, Allah in Santa Mala. mala is just like that.
When the first word was given to him, he says Monogatari said I'm not learning is not there.
Again, the extra season. I'm not learning is not there. Why is it not there?
Because that's the word of Muhammad. Muhammad said that this is the word of God. What did God say? Through the Archangel? What did he say? He said, Bismillah. Because Allah, Allah, Allah, Allah, Allah, Allah, Allah.
The historian tells me that he was 40 years old. The historian tells me that this was his habit of retiring is a place that historian tells me that he was terrified. And he ran home to his wife and he was sweating all over and he asked his wife to cover him up and she who told me that God
So this is the book that creates this problem for the reader, the unbeliever, he doesn't know what is this all of a sudden, there's nothing there, there's no details. I said, you see, because this is the word of God, this book is only God's word. The rest is multisports isn't books of traditions Hadees, then our historians are learned men putting up another set of books, everything is separate in the house of Islam, but now it's too concentrated for you. Now, this first verse, first revelation of the Quran
is that is the fulfillment of biblical prophecy.
In the book of Isaiah,
chapter 29, verse 12, it reads, and the book is given to him that is not learned, saying, read, and he says, Monogatari, and he said, I'm not learning.
This read any biography of Muhammad. And you'll find these words there, that the book when the book, The revelation is given to him, he says, I'm not gonna say, he says, No, I'm not.
Where is this? As in the book of Isaiah, did Muhammad read the book of Isaiah is another, this is what I must do. Now. You see, when the angel comes to me, and if he tells me that I'm going to tell him, I'm not learning, because this is what I
did Muhammad navassa. Was that an Arabic Bible available? in his lifetime, there wasn't. It was 1000 years after Jesus for the first time the Arabic Bible was written, that Arabic Bibles came into existence. So no, this is the fulfillment of prophecy. Now I have this type of
understanding. So I'm trying to share with people I said, Look, this book, we are finding difficulty with the book, because it's not a story book of the life of Mohammed, you read the four gospels, there are the life story of Jesus, a short one. But all the four are trying to give you in their own words, what happened to Jesus during this three years of his ministry, this book here, you take this whole whole vast volume, and you didn't find out his father's name in here. His mother's name is not yet his wife, Kim is not yet his daughter's name is not here. None of is the Halifax you know, who became the successor of Mohammed, Abu Bakr, Omar, Osman Ali, the names are not here. What is this?
In this last one? The name Mohamed occurs four times and the word another alternative for Mohammed occurs once five times is mentioned by name.
In this last one, in the Arabic text,
the name Jesus, in this very book 25 times.
is five times more important. Is that what it means? Look, Jesus has mentioned by name by name, he said, Jesus at 25 times, Muhammad, all together five times. Jesus mentioned 25 times. There is a chapter in the plan called surah. Maria chapter, Mary, in honor of the name of the mother of Jesus Christ, there is no such chapter in the name of his mother's name. I mean, his wife's name Khadija, or Ayesha or his daughter, Fatima.
To places this in this Quran is the Annunciation. The good news about the birth of Jesus is given to me the two separate places in the Quran, but Mama's birth is not mentioned.
So now the question is why, why? Why should this be like that? The man himself if you read the book, do you like that letter. And if
you can't help starting with, I am really happy or I have great pleasure and I this and I, that that I You can't leave out you and meet all of us quite is strange. From that point of view, it is difficult for a person because you are looking for a certain form that you are used to. I was used to at one time reading Aladdin and his wonderful lamp and a scene by the sailor. And I was quite an expert, and I had a love for reading. And whenever I went into the families, they would tell me start a story. Tell us a story.
So invariably, I started with once upon a time I
don't even I created my own concoction. I said, once upon a time, I thought this was like a religious thing that you have to you have to say, once upon a time, although I'm reading the story myself, because I read that once upon a time. Once upon a time, this once upon a time, that's how I was reading almost all the fairy tales. So now you want to study for me, how do I start? I said, once upon a time, I just can't imagine a person can start the story without once upon a time. Now I know you can. But now this is how so you once you're used to a certain format. It's very difficult for you to grasp but all of a sudden you start reading
Men talking about I just open at random to them and to the fathers and progeny and brothers, we chose them and we guided them for a straight way. This is the guidance of God, he given that guidance to whom he pleases of his worshipers. If they were to join other gods with him, all that they did would be faint for them. That is not a story. It's not a story. You can simply say, we mean, if you are in doubt as to my religion, behold, her worship not what he worship, other than God, but I worship God, who will take your souls at death. I am commanded to be in the hands of the believers to open. Then when he turned his face towards the land of Medan, he said, I do hope that
my Lord will show me the smooth and straight path. This is about Moses. But now, you realize this is this is not the type of book that you have been reading subproblem for you, was everything you read? Like if I could you from the book of Genesis, any story, you can't forget in 100 years and 100 years you'll never forget.
Genesis chapter 38. I said you see Judah, the father of the Jewish race, from whom we could do with Judy and Judaism, Judah, there is an objective.
He had three sons on an inshallah and which
was big enough to get married, he got a daughter in law called Tama, he got married
And something else did he earn
in the sight of the Lord, so God killed it.
So according to Jewish customs, if one brother dies living No offense, then the second fellow takes the widowed wife, and it gives her child so that the name of the deceased can carry on that is where the feeling that your name must not perish. So somebody must help you out to see that your name carries on. So according to the system, he tells own and his second son is the look, you go in into your brother's wife, and begin child by her so that the name of your deceased brother can carry on.
So according to custom, he goes into his brother's wife, meaning having sex with her. And while he's about to ejaculate, the thought occurs to him that the CD is mine. But the My brother is going to get the credit.
Who's gonna get the kid? My brother, so he spills it on the ground, his seed, so God killed him. Also. That's what the book says. So Judah tells his daughter in law Tamar, twice, we don't know is it look you can state your father's house, and when shall other third floor is grown, I will call you.
But for mediately, the old man forgot, convenient, was at the back of the mind is superstitious. This is you know, because of this woman, this which the old people's disability which, you know, she added my one son, because of her, he died. And because of her the second night, so the third follow his life might also be in danger. So the best thing is to
just forget about it. Now the woman is waiting, and she sees Sheila is grown, and maybe he's already married to another woman, polygamy was not a crime. So you know, you could still then is duty.
So she wants to take revenge. So she gets a news that the old man Judah was going to Tim net to share the ship.
So she goes and sits by the wayside. She knew the road that the old man is gonna take. And the old man Judah was passing, he sees this woman sitting by the roadside COVID in her face. So he comes up to her thinking she's a harlot, or a prostitute. So he comes up to her. And he says, allow me, I'm only quoting the Bible, allow me to come in unto thee. Let me have sex with you. So she says, What will that give me?
So he said, I'll give you a kid from the flock. Good Kid, says the word guaranteed is that we'll give it you know, you have fun, and then we'll send it what guarantee is there that you are going to give it to so what guarantee Do you want pledge. So she said, Your signet ring, and your bracelet, maybe there will be already there has to be a place and your rod that is in your hand. So the old man gave it to her, and had intercourse committed incest with his daughter in law, and immediately she became pregnant, the two sons, they failed, this old man one hit dreams, dreams were in the womb.
Then he gets the three months gone, and now she's getting
your daughter and
he gets the news. This is called the beaches I'll call her. So they bring drama to the old man. But before he can confront her, she sends with a servant is a look, give this to my father in law, that this award and this brace didn't ring belonging to the guy who's responsible for my condition.
So when those
And CS is a more righteous than I, and he had no more intercourse with only one intercourse with that he had
then the time for childbirth has arrived. And the nurses waiting jealously, to see that, you know, don't do any injustice to
one of the twins, because according to Jewish law, the firstborn gets the inheritance. Or he's the head of the family, the firstborn. So she is now waiting, which one came out first.
And the first guy puts his hand out to his mother's womb, and she ties the scarlet thread.
Maybe it was too sensitive and put it back so that the other guy comes out. So she causes named forest fires when the guy who goes to Q breaks the queue, pushing others out of the way, and then came out his brother with a scarlet thread. So she called him Sarah. Sarah means read in Hebrew, it means because he has this kind of threat story, Mark and john, that you can't forget. It says, I want to do that. And you know, among so many things we chatted for you spoke about this woman judaize. If you see the woman sitting by the roadside thinking she is a horse, so he goes up to her and he bargains with her and she allows, you know, for GAVI, these pledges, and here, as
interpersonal claims are born, who are they?
Who are they?
They are the great grandfather's of your Lord Jesus Christ.
See, first chapter of Matthew, chapter one, verse one, it begins, and this is the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the Son of David, son of Abraham. And Abraham begat Isaac, and as it began, Jacob, and Jacob began Judas and his brother and Judah as beget pharez and Zara
not as deep waters. You knew about David, you know, whatever. Have you heard about Isaac, you heard about Jacob, but now pharez and Zara of Tama.
So you find any Bible which has a cross reference, you look on the side is the Genesis separate a da. So you can read there, that the father in law comm is instance with his brother in law, visiting this bastard children. They are the great grandfather's of your God, Jesus Christ.
And in the genealogy six bastards and beginners are bastards in the genealogy of Jesus,
very proud to boast about, I want to know that you say his father is God.
Right? This is the belief of 1000 million, over 1 billion Christians, that his father is God, but he's not there in the genealogy as given by Matthew and Luke. He's giving you 66, fathers and grandfathers to Jesus Christ. In these two genealogies out of the 66 God is not one of them.
Amazing, he is the Son of God, but in the genealogy. God is not mentioned not once to say that he is anywhere in the picture. But he's given him 66 fathers and grandfathers and out of the six are bastards and bigger as a bastard. Not what I say the same for the older part tells you David an adulterer.
And these guys and Ruth, Ruth and boys in the band, these are all in the genealogy of Jesus. So I said, brimstone system, this book here, it tells us in such a beautiful language, the birth of Jesus, his genealogy in a few words.
Generally people don't want to read it you're looking for Sir, what can I find that I can hit the Muslim with? As I look for a change, what was it let me see what does this book say? In the book that you have got? Open a G Jesus, it like a dictionary in the index? and say, What did you say first item it says a righteous prophet is a true prophet of God. second item, he says birth chapter three, verses 45 onwards, Chapter 19, verses 23 onwards. Just read it, that's all. Now, I said, his birth chapter three, I just open chapter three. This is what it says.
This is what it sounds like.
Why you Starla tilma like Maria Maria, Maria Mo. Behold, the Indian said Oh Mary Imola. hasta faki bata hiraki Mustapha. kehlani, Salalah mean that God has chosen the and purified the chosen the above the women of all nations, marry the mother of Jesus. In the Quran, she's the woman chosen above all nations, Yamaguchi lira, the key was to de Vaca Moroccan in so many worship dialogue, devoutly prostrate thyself and bow down and pray with those who are fairly common. And by that I mean, this is part of the tidings of the things I'm seeing, which is revealing to the apostle by inspiration that was not with them, when they cast lots with arrows as to visit them should be
charged with the care of Mary nor was that with them and they disputed the point of this
The story is that the mother of Mary, she had vowed she was buried for a long period. So she vowed that, oh my lord, if you give me a child, I will offer this child for temple services dedicated to the temple for the service of God. And God heard her prayer.
intention, she became pregnant, and she delivered the child. And when the child was delivered, she was shocked. Because it's the girl. And the female is very unlike the male for temple services. What does she do, she had found, so when the child is big enough, that she can look at herself, she takes this child to the temple synagogue, in Jerusalem or wherever.
And everybody sees his beautiful child. Everybody says, I'm the Godfather.
I look after this child, David, give it to me.
So everybody's, everybody's clamoring for the child. So this will look now the only ways we can pass it up, toss it out. You know, the old days is testing lots, like head to tail, would you toss the coin, this was a casting of lots, according to the casting of lots into the turn of Zechariah, that Sakura won the toss. So when you want to toss an argument,
this is we do all the time. So God is telling, Matt isn't a few minutes
with arrows, as to which of them should be charged with the care of Mary? Nor do they when they disagree? How do you know about these things is that this is what we're giving to you by inspiration.
Either you accept it or reject it. When you reject it, you have to give it a reason. This man, man is making us to believe that Mary was a woman chosen above the women of all nations.
I'm asking why would an atom go out of his way to prove the Arabs? Because he wasn't talking to me an Indian
or to the African? No, he was talking to his own people, telling them that the Jew is the mother of Jesus. She was chosen above the women of all nations, not his own mother, or wife or daughter, or another Arab woman, but a dress. When the Jews were looking down upon the episode 3000 years, they still look down upon the Arab cousins today. And yet this ad is honoring a Jew s account for that. When he's surrounded by Jews and Christians, and the Jews were a power around Medina, not the Christians. And yet he's telling and his Brooklyn Jews also they say this woman, immoral woman, you know, a Jewish Roman soldier raped her.
He says, No, this man says no, she was a virtuous woman. She was a true servant of God, godly person, saintly person, and she was chosen above all nations. So you account for that. Now, when you say Muhammad wrote the book, I want you to account for that. Why would he go out of his way to provoke his own people and provoke the Jews?
He was no
lunatic. He was people say that, look, he was a mighty genius. A man who can create a nation of religion and write a book and create a society that he was he was no fool. He was a mighty genius, then why would he go and do such a silly thing? From the worldly point of view silly, provoking young people, and provoking the Jews a power to be reckoned with? why they do that, unless he is inspired by God. This is the fact what about
it continues, behold, the angel said, Oh, my God, given the glad tidings of a world from him. His name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, Helen honor in this world, and in the Hereafter, the company of those nearest to God, Jesus, in the company of those years to God, what the Christian would say, sitting on the right hand of God is supplied, but not digitally. Only thing we said, Look, I accept mark, would you say sitting on the right hand of God, you see in eastern languages, the necessity on the right hand doesn't mean is the right city on the right hand. He's my right hand man. To sit on my left hands. I'm sitting behind me. But he's my right was in position of importance
in any consultation. I do with him. Right? So as it does geographically, not physically, but in status is in the company of those nearest to God, where you can demo NASA and He will speak with the people will mark the vocabulary in childhood in a majority woman Assad hain, and he shall be of the company the righteous. When this good news is given to her, she says.
She said, Oh my Lord, how shall I have a son when no man especially? The Bible says, When I know not a man, the stressful words. But it's it means the same thing. Whether you say I know not a man meaning sexually. She knows other men.
She knows but when she means I know not a man. No man a statement doesn't mean nobody's ever touched that means sexually is a choice of words. The Bible uses stressful words the Quran uses but the answers to that
revealing. See the Quran says that when she said how can this thing be in no manners? So the answer is the interest Isn't it like Carla canalicular Jacobo Masha, even so Allah 340 wolves, Elisa amarin whenever he decrees a matter, by nama yaku, when
he merely says b d, and it is about to create a Jesus without a human father just like
to create a million Jesus's without mother without father just like that. But we'll look at those little ones who is in the napkins. Jesus needed their mother.
This is what the Quranic story is, and we believe, not question 1000 million Muslims believe this, no question no arguments, but that your Anglican Bishop don't believe we believe.
Now you contrast this. See, I was in Johannesburg, and I went to the Bible house was looking for an Indonesian Bible. See, I have a hobby of learning foreign languages. If I go to any country, I try and master some words in that language. So I get all these Bibles. I have the Indonesian Bible, I have the house and Nigerian Bible. You know, I keep on getting these things. So that I can as soon as I come to your country, you speak French, I want to learn something in French, so I can rattle it off to you opening your heart to me. So I was looking for Indonesian Bible our Bible house inhabits, I'm going to go to johnsburg. And I find the Bible and I was looking for another New Testament,
Greek English. I think
this one here, the New Testament in English, Greek and English. So I was looking through that. And the supervisor,
or the supervisors, Bible houses and retired residents, I don't know whether, you know, only retired residents become supervisors have not noticed, the man is retired, you know, he can sit back and see what's going on there. So this man comes up to me, that elderly gentleman compared to me, then I was clean shaven, I had that Jena cat, you know, the one the day that the Pakistanis were for, like the Russians, you know, that type of thing. And he sees me handling that book, the other book. So he comes up to me.
And he starts a conversation.
Because this was quite expensive in those days, you know, maybe it was 15 rounds or so that it was very expensive. The Bible was about twin screen, 16 years to get the Bible, your whole Bible, but three and six fishing and 35 cents, just to get them. So compared to that this was 15 times was a lot of money. I think it was part of the last.
This is why did I select these books, this is I'm doing comparative religion. And I saw something of interest. So I bought the book, I want to take it because you might having a cup of tea with me, I said not at all.
So he took me to his office and he ordered some tea. So you want to know, I told him that, look, we need Jesus, we believe in his miraculous birth. We believe that he was the Messiah. We believe that he gave life to the mission. And he was born blind and delivered on this, I'm telling him. And it's all news to him. He's a retired Reverend. But as if you know all this, I'm just trying to throw him in. So I said, you know what the currency is. So I read this. And I read it to him and I give the explanation. When I came to this point, I forgot to create just like there is a look, this is the same as my Bible
says yes, on the face of it is the same. On the face of it is the same. But I said if you read it
intently, I say you'll find that the difference between this and yours is chalk and cheese. So what do you mean? As I look here, when she says how can this thing happened to me have a child when no man has touched me, physically, sexually?
So the same thing is repeated in the Gospel of St. Louis.
How can this thing be even I know not a man, Minister, as it means the same. But what is the answer to that? The Buddhist book says, just like that, what a great He wills it and the thing comes into being
yoga, what does it say? What does India say?
that, you know Luke, Luke, Luke chapter two
it says, and the Holy Ghost will come upon thee, and the power of the most I will.
Said, you see, we are trying to say the same thing. We are both we want to say the same thing, that this was a miraculous birth. But the language that you're using is down to a gutter language. And the Holy Ghost will come on you how, like a bull going on a cow, or a man when his wife learned the language, you see, and then the Most High will overshadow the how like a man overshadowing his wife like Ruth in the ambulance.
In the bath, she's a from Colombia. What is she saying? Someone has sex with me to cover her means to have sex. And he covered her means they had sex and the Holy Ghost and the father the Most High will overshadow you. I said you are giving a weapon a stick to the eighth and agnostic to be to it. How did the Holy Ghost the Holy Ghost is a person? Right? said yes. So this person came on Mary, to impregnate her. That's what Billy Graham said, and the Holy Ghost came, this is how we did in Kings Park. I was there and impregnated me like this. That's what he did. In those days. I don't know if there were no videos. You know, when he came, Billy Graham came back, he came in impregnated her.
There's a language you're using, because if you're reading, the Holy Ghost came out of the must have overshadowed her as now between these two versions, the Quranic and the biblical.
Both are trying to say the same thing that Jesus was born miraculously, but the language in which you are saying it, and the language in which the Quran says, As if which would you prefer to do to your daughter, the Quranic version, or the biblical version? And this Reverend then because that was it was a German origin driven dentist, he pumped his head down, and Shane, he said, I would prefer to keep
Why? I said, How can an imitation if this is an imitation? Muhammad forged it as a How can an imitation diamond be better than original? How can I make the flat diamond? more genuine than your original diamond? Or you're done? pulling in diamond whatever? Can you produce out of that something more genuine than that? Something more sparkling than that? Can you?
See the genius genius? Yours is a genuine when you say as I like this is an imitation? How can this imitation be better than a genuine? You tell me, unless you're honest, was also from God. But it was not preserved? That it was not preserved. Moses didn't write those five books.
Jesus Christ didn't write the Gospel of Matthew, Mark, Luke, or john.
And your scholars. Now they tell me that even back to the night Matthew, Matthew, Mark, Luke, Luke, Luke, and john. JOHN, your scholars are telling me that they showed you the internal evidence. It doesn't appear that Matthew wrote this book. Why is it Matthew nine nine is telling us about Jesus that when he was going 42, the league he saw a tax collector called Matthew. And he Jesus came up to him Matthew, and said unto him, Matthew, follow me, Jesus. And he, Matthew followed him Jesus said the Jesus right that
Matthew, right that you said, No, as an eyewitness, are you a witness or somebody writing from hearsay. So he said, Look, this is not God's word. The Quran is God's word, verbally, verbally articulated, what was put into him what he heard, he repeated. The other is, you tickle.
And in your tickling, you have your background, experience, prejudices, and you can't help bring in that in your edited segment. And you have a tendency to edit like, it tells us tells us that while he Jesus went away, he said victory in the distance with leaves. Happily, he came up with putting the fanfic there on, but if nothing but leaves,
right. That's one gospel. The other gospel writer repeat word for word.
Why he was going for him the way he saw a victory in the distance, at least hopefully, he came up with one word for that when he came up with there was nothing that leaves.
So he's writing that is copying from another source both of them. They have a common source, but they called Q. In German. Both these people have access to that, and they're both writing from there. But when this man here, Matthew, I think he comes to the why is it that my Lord, he didn't know. He was deceived into thinking that they will fix that they will not fix why he Alterna the ads for the season was not yet
for that's an addition.
Jesus goes to a certain place and he could do that no mighty works means miracles.
Right? So the editing takes place another gospel says he went there, identical word for you watch metrion mark
at verbatim the same in some 85% is the same. Why? Because they had a common source. But now with a different you see everything? Why can Why can you blame him it was there. Your Lord? You know
that that's editing.
Yeah. So I said look, this is what is happening. In our case, the Quran is separate Word of God, the Word of the Prophet separate the word of the historian separate. They all have their respective values. They're not the same. We don't treat them equally.
The Word of God Supremes then comes over the Prophet then comes over historian and we have many things beside like the Arabian Nights, so nothing to do the Quran is nothing new with Islam.
pornographic stories will be told around the campfire among Arabs, like among all nations, I'll do pastime.
I read that the unexpurgated edition of the Arabian Nights by by Fitzgerald I did many years ago, but it's very thrilling. You know, what I did
was unexpurgated in Mexico instance. And in those days, it was really something right, but that's nothing to do with the Quran. Nothing wrong with Islam. It just happens that they haven't had it. But now you the Christian, you have in your holy book, the Word of God is the the word of the Prophet is the the word of the study is there. And pornography of the highest order is also there.
As a kid you read about this Holden's of those two sisters. Hola. Hola. When you read in chapter 16, he said, metaphorically speaking about the Jews, so you at all, and you make your Yo yo yo.
Yo platform, at every corner, every circus, like Oxford Circus, at every corner, and you are not like other procedures, the other procedures you have to pay them. You you pay your Telecom, here, I pay you Come on, and the Egyptians, great. Our flesh is mighty big biktrix and the Syrians, they couldn't separate you. Yes. Did you read that chapter 16 as a kid, and I can read it to your sister, your wife or your daughter? Why? Because if I did you say this guy, this old guy.
I am not. I'm only reading your holy book. And I'm explaining to you is this and she doted upon her teramo whose flesh was the flesh of essence.
The Jehovah's Witnesses, the transcript, and the genitals were like those of donkeys. And the emission was like those of horses, as it is now your sister your daughter reading that? She thinks of God, math, tell me honest. reshipping is the picture like those of chunky side splits the head, and they boo the teeth of their virginity? What is that the clitoris was bruised with what with your nose with your tongue? What? What do you bruise it with
their donkeys or genitals, donkeys, and
The Jews had all types of writing in Hebrew, you know, that the manuscripts are different different things that I
like to ask now, anything that's written
anything is in Arabic to my people in Africa, Muslims in Africa or Asia Anyway, you throw this
around, and you watch
the Muslim child will pick it up
and put it away in the Quran.
Or in the bag? Every Muslim child does it. Every old man and young man if he sees this in Arabic, he'll pick it up. But what is this? It could be lady Chatterley's lover in Arabic.
It could be a book of pornography in Arabic. The poor man doesn't know he is taught to respect Bosworth because because the only God's word we see is in that script. In the script, we don't see
the known error. We don't see anything we see in this clip must be good. So we react respond to that, like that. The Jew the same.
You see, when they wanted to get things together? Anything that was written in Hebrew was sacrosanct. What was that written in Hebrew? Anything, everything, your personal jealousies, everything came in. You read the book of Genesis, chapter nine, after the flood.
You read the God saved Noah and his three sons, Sam and Jeff. And
then they started to grow grapes.
And out of the fruit of the vine, they ferment that the wine and no I drank too much. Remember, and he was laying naked. In his drunken state, he was naked. So
ham, saw his father's nakedness. And it was a big joke, you know, the old man sprawled out eating his genitals. It was no big job for him. The other two cents they felt ashamed of the father's condition. So they took a piece of cloth and they walk backwards they don't see his condition and they put it on him. The old man knew what was going on. But he was put didn't do anything about it.
When he came into his senses, he started the first
asset class B for a cylinder cylinder Shelby and
during reading that chapter nine Genesis Cosby Who
I said who is gonna
alternate from you? You're a man of religion. I want a DD to tell you I want to know who's gonna is it not canon was the youngest son of ham,
four sons push me, push em kana.
As this old man when it comes to sensors, if what you say is true, then he leaves the culprit
in my anger, righteous indignation, knew my son, if you did that, I might, in my anger,
lose my sense of proportion. After you have and your children and your children, students will ever be slaves, I can do that. Anyone can do that. You and your children and your children's children forever. In my anger, you have no right to do that. The type of person, your children and your children for eternity, what have they done wrong, that I should curse them.
But now, we can do it. You and I.
But to leave the culprit,
and leave the three other sons and take the youngest of them. I want you to explain to me what kind of a bot is this inspires you
to say leave the corporate ham ham sauce. And now, if I told you that the guy who wrote all that was a master psychologist, so how do you know
the the Genesis chapter nine. And you see every time the word ham occurs? It says an ham the father of cannon, and again, I'm the father of cannon and ham the father of cannon.
I said what about the three other sons? cannon is the youngest man, why the father of cannon? cannon what the others are not mentioned. I want to know why. Because in your record, it tells you ham had four sons who wish Mr. m foot m cannon? That's the order. You've got dictated that that's the order of the birth.
That same God not has somebody to write and say no, no, no, leave him out the bush and Muslim and foot and only talk about Canada.
That means is preparing you to think that ham and Canada synonymous terms. So you think when cannon is because you think ham is cursed? ham is not first. Ham goes free. Go free is only canon why canon because you had something personal against Canon and his descendants, you the writer. This is not God's word. What doesn't talk like that.
So I said come talk to you Christians come and talk to I want to talk to you.
let's organize a meeting. If you have somebody who's really worthwhile, I am prepared to organize a meeting in Kings Park at my expense. And we discuss dialogue, dialogue, you give your point of view for the same amount of time I give my point of view and leave it to God Almighty to guide the people to think what is right and was no holds taken. No, just one pass who won the debate? Like we did. I don't know whether you saw the debate.
So I said, Look, man, we can get 40,000 people. And I'm prepared to do that exercise for you. jpma, Bishop Hurley, the mission of the Methodist Church, or the Lutheran Church, or the moderator of the African church gave me anybody man who's got some value of his own.
You see, you mentioned that you know, as the great benefit of Christianity, you pass it on to me, okay. And then humility is and do whatever you think God was acceptable in your side, whatever you said, but I am recognized as somebody in the world. As far as comparative religion is concerned. I am a self made man.
But I want somebody within me is a mark, can you give them a message I'm not good enough. Maybe you are better than the bishop to do better than Bishop early in your knowledge of religion. You must and john, maybe you can do a better job than I believe that. I believe that because you have studied and you know, it's a part of you. So you can do a better job than Hurley. But it won't Anyway, when I spend 20,000 $50,000 to get 40,000 people there. They won't come because of us it was this john fellow. And suppose you make a fool of yourself. This is just brought in the young samurai they paid you $500,000 to come my son make a fool of yourself as a math Come on Nigeria 1000 man come and make
a fool of yourself. That is what people will insinuate. they first get nice somebody with substance. You know who's gonna wait in the community, no matter where the food is that we are not worried about bishop. Bishop early does not match. Son. So my son, get me somebody like that 10,000 for you personally, or your church? I give you 10,000 personally, you get me one of these bishops, any Bishop
or a moderator of the Dutch Reformed Church to come and have a dialogue with me in public. I give you personally. You you you. You can give to the courthouse. You don't need money. I give it to the doghouse man. I gave you 10,000
give it to in writing if you like I give you 10,000 run. You john. I give you 10,000 run. Get me somebody big enough that
He can attract people on his own merit, then I'm also there, instead of me doing everything, and the only am I get 20,000. But if you had another guy, he can also take another 20,000. That means 40,000. So my money is worth spending that money. I want to do that. And I want you to help me.
I want you to see that I want to help.
If you say no, you can't get anybody, then there's something wrong with your religion.
That's the obvious thing is everybody's terrified of this old man here.
There's something wrong with your religion, you agree, is everybody's terrified of me.
under controlled conditions, we get a judge and retired judge to be the chairman. And this introduce the speaker and he carries on, you know, for an hour, and the other guy carries on for an hour and in the form of a symposium, and it's a go home, my children and go and think for yourself has gone by to go.
I'm prepared to give you you, john 10,000. Prison gift. Give me a man. Are you saying that he wants to do this? Yes. I hope you understand my English.
sounds so simple.
You're telling us about a time you're done? No, no, no, I want you to do it for me, ma. I'm addressing you, john.
I'm addressing you. You get me a man of some substance to say, look, it's a dialogue. Not a debate.
Jesus God, we cannot see that similar things with Mr. gilcrest. Yeah. Because in his you know, he's not as well known. You know, there was not it's just he's riding on my caravan. Oh, no, no, I don't on my bandwagon. I don't want people to ride on my bandwagon. When somebody has gotten got
And I spent all the money. I spent all the money. I had the place then in Baton Rouge. And I had it about 20,000 books. I did everything I advertised on newspapers, he wouldn't. But why did I do that? Because he was a man of substance.
I mean, if he felt
it was there, even today, to me, he is one of the greatest Christians I have come across.
We make mistakes, we fall in the sight of God, God can forgive you. Right. But I don't hold out against anybody. The man is great is great.
Give me somebody, and I want to do that exercise before I die.
I'm 74. Now, how long am I gonna live? As I love you When I die?
You seem as fresh as a daisy, like, Can we give a couple responses? And then you've got to give us so much time. And please, please, please westville these?
One would be
I wish I knew somebody.
I was talking to somebody, I could get an organizer and give it some thought. But I don't know.
I don't know. I wouldn't be afraid to do it.
Or not the person to be with you. Okay. So
the reason why is it that me
is the who is the moderator of the Dutch Reformed Church, he carries weight. And if he makes a fool of himself, you can see the fool knew nothing.
Early, let him make a fool of himself. You Mark if you make a fool of yourself, it was backfill, we don't agree
on that. The other is that, I just like to say thank you so much for giving us your time, I think it's valuable. To hear this. One of the things that that I'm interested in doing is like our news correspondent zuri said, Mohammed and he said to your other provinces, one of our hands is, you know, we feel like
we're supposed to love people. And how can we love people we're afraid of has been so much misunderstanding. And this helps me to understand you as a person and understand.
I don't think I'm gonna
go out of here as converted today. I'm just like, I didn't come here with that and trying to convert you to my way.
I would like to maybe come back sometime and maybe maybe your son or somebody could share with me just some of the nuts and bolts of your operation here at the center. You know, like so what are some of your goals or your tactics, your methods, your methodology, if you're militancy and that kind of thing.
enjoys like cinema or listen to my grandfather tell stories or something you know, and you tell Bible stories better than I can and I'm a preacher and I enjoy hearing these you know, they come alive to me and I didn't know that
anybody but now I really love this and I think it's a valuable experiences to hear you tell the stories and sim from your from your viewpoint. So I just want to say thank you for all that and
and i think that certainly as you said, dialogue cannot hurt us at all. And I respect you as a
Already, gentlemen, you obviously know your stuff, and you know a lot about my stuff. And I appreciate that. And,
like, just keep the door open to share it again, my door is open. You didn't have to make it fun. In your passing, you just, you just drop in. And this is I'm here, right?
Any chance to that Mike could get a copy of the video cassette that that your men made of the we were here on two days that us in this room here? You know, I wondered if they wouldn't be willing to let me have a copy? I'll bring the tape or something of that nature. Yes. Did they also your people didn't do anything yet. Now we have still photographs, and are meant to promised Milan but he said if I write something, I'll send you a copy of anything I write tonight. So anything that we write or publish, you get copies of and that kind of thing. You speak to my son about that?
Okay, look, you've given us a lot of your time, and you probably got a heavy, heavy agenda. You see, this is primary. To me, my primary job is
to receive people on the Day of Judgment. Suppose, you know, this was your turning point in your life. And you see the whole thing like, on TV, there is a right that was the turning point on my life. I went there to the ITC, I want to meet the old man. And perhaps you know, he might have shown me things or guided me, right. Oh, my Lord, that guy. I mean, I wanted to talk to him as he was too busy. So that, is this true. So what were you doing? I was having pizza
for my job. So I believe anybody who comes here, number one, all my jobs, I take them back home again. I carry them home, I do my job, and I come back to bring it next morning.
You come first. There was a time when every case to the mosque was my responsibility.
Now, that young man, but when we were in the arcade, and we had only about three guys, anybody comes along. He wants to see the mostess. Right. Who goes I said the best man goes. And I believe that I was the best man. In my absence, my secretary those
in his absence, the third person goes, but if I am there now, man, what I'm doing. First thing is this is the guest of God. To me. I said, this is a guest of God. And I'm pretty busy. No, so what's gonna happen to me? On the day of January, God sent his guest to you, and you're too busy to guide him. Primarily, this is my duty. The rest is all second everything as a secondary. So whenever you can, Mark Okay, john, you live in Durban? Yes, well, so the sun is here to December. I'm here to next few lines with friends, young men come to have a little bit of a
boxing match. You know, you don't have to pull punches. You say yes. And colleano sounded really nice. But you know, you people say so don't be afraid. Because this old man can take anything.
To me is an opportunity of this abusing your minds, or I'm a failure. Then either way is proving to me said Look, man, you failed. You know, it's not God who failed, I failed. But I can try. So to me, it's an opportunity, whatever you come with
any type of thing. You said yesterday that I read the Quran against me. But you know, I find this sound in Congress. I was gonna ask you that. Do you have any?
Do you have any copies of the Quran in English that you know, that you'd like give to guests or anything like that? Or should we buy one done at the store? What we do
we give to ordinary people. You know, man comes along with Yuna, for example. Right? And you john, suppose you were not a missionary
that were forced to give you a book.
You wouldn't be forced to give you a book. Right? We should.
You should buy well, because this is not because you're a missionary. You send an ordinary Christian, let's say wife comes along. And we she gave me this hearing. I want to give her the book.
So your brother comes along? You know, if I didn't know some of you came along, I didn't know that you're in the field. In other words, now, we are
professional opponents. Right. So I can't ask you.
I don't stop you from purchasing right now. Otherwise, to me, the greatest thing is to keep the same as we would like to get the buy box.
But nice enough to fight you. I don't know how you feel.
I'm a black belt, karate expert
religion, and you ask him to give you
headaches. And then this is just an unlike give you this as it doesn't come spontaneously.
Thanks for your time.
It was a pleasure and a privilege. We feel that every human being ought to have the right to examine for himself or herself and make a decision. Many of them would agree this is a better
Revelation that I've ever had before.