How An American Marxist Found Islam
Channel: Ahmed Deedat
File Size: 26.05MB
series of coincidences that brings this interview about. Last night, I returned home from a meeting. And I get a message.
The message was from a doctor
who had been on a queue to
close from Bombay, returning, returning to Durban. And this leaves a message that I must make a point of meeting a brother from America who is on the ship to the brother by the name of Solomon.
And I get another phone call in the morning from Mr. banker, the Secretary of the Islamic publication center, telling me that I should be there at the terminal by eight o'clock, because brother, Solomon will be expecting me there. So I made a beeline for the terminal. And I read there before time, and I'm making an effort to get onto the ship. But without a pass, no pressure. Let me try. So I go to the gangway. And I speak to the officer in charge. As you know, I have a friend on ship by the name of
Mr. Mr. Savage, he is on the fifth day. And I would like to meet him. And this officer so kindly, he is trying to climb up the steps. But while he's climbing up the steps to go onto the ship, I see from the ship side, that Dr. Karma coming around with beaming face, and hands to me, and he whispered to me in the vernacular, that
he said, Just follow me. And if everything is alright, inshallah, we'll be able to get you onto the ship without a pass. And I started talking with him. And then I was on board ship, the QE two, without any appointments without any passes. And
I beat him and I bring him to the office. And now we are trying to have interview with him.
we welcome you for this very brief visit to the to our country, South Africa, especially.
Very, very welcome. And now we would like you something about yourself, we are interested in you. Mashallah. Well, I think I should tell you the history of, of how it really a lot of
my interests, many of them a Slurpee shop, and many people have asked me who it was that brought you to Islam, and I had to answer all of them that was along with Jabbar
because he has many instruments is not only one instrument, and really all praises to a lot. So in a way I saw my guns to Islam, directly attributed to my Lord.
But my own history goes as follows. You know, I was born in the United States, and my parents were both scientists. My father was the chairman of the Yale statistics department. But they had no emotion, whatsoever. So no faith,
whatsoever. So I grew up, never having read the Bible, never having read the Old Testament on the New Testament, right. And at the age of about five years old, you see, my father told me very clearly, at five or six years old, he made it clear to me that there's no gods, there's no opera, or no life that goes on forever.
And even, for example, Santa Claus is among the myths that people have created to entertain themselves, right. But I should believe strictly in science, and in business, and be a serious person. So based on this famous study that Muhammad SAW, someone said that every child is born
in Islam, born Muslim, born submitted to reality, but it's the father or the mother that influence in one way or the other. I of course, was influenced, right. And I followed my father's footsteps for many years, as what might may be labeled as an atheist.
But at the age of about 15, during the time of the east, west, Pakistan conflict, I was watching a lot of television and I was starting to become more idealistic as young men sometimes do. One of my cousin's was a very active Marxist in the United States. He had a lot of organizing and this sort of thing, which was he was a very unusual American. And also I was listening to what he had to say. So one day I entered my father's office at Yale and I spoke to him
my father, I must agree with you, there is no law.
And there is no
life that goes on forever. There's no life after death.
you know that the point is you must spend your wealth, you must spend your money and make the whole world as paradise should be, you must spend your wealth and make the whole world like Janata Knight.
And my father has to me. And he said, if the people want to work, if those who don't have anything want to work, they may work. So don't put this responsibility on me. And I answered my father. And I said, yes, it may be true that some are lazy. Some of the people in the world who have nothing are lazy and are working for it. But others are in such a position where it's impossible for them to have an opportunity. And it's your responsibility to make the opportunity for them since you structure you and those like you have structured society in such a way that some have absolutely no opportunity to improve their condition.
And my father said, the way you're talking to me is a Marxist.
contaminated with communist Exactly. And he told me, and I said to him, I said, Well, I said, the people who think like you in the world, and the people who think like me, they're struggling this very moment with the
Russian assault rifle and the Ms. 16. And I said, also, between you and I, there's conflict, too. And he said, but why did you eat my food in my house, and you're a hypocrite? And
I said, Yes, I said, you were correct. He said, You must leave my house immediately at the age of 15, at the age of 15, alone, so I began to live in the houses of other young american people who were in general influenced by Marxism, right? And I stayed in this condition
for almost four years. After one year of being away from my father. However, I did return for a rather interesting experience, because I tried to make a personal peace with right wing politics aside, as my father, I still had emotional failure.
So I went to him and I spoke with him. But in the middle of the conversation, as I spoke to him alone in his bedroom, as he was standing in front of me, he said, Oh, my God, and He felt dead, like a tree backwards. No, to the side was a word. Oh, my God, he felt like a tree that's been cut in love, and it will light however, as an atheist, myself, I accepted it as a
natural force. Yes, yes.
four for five years as a Marxist, I was 19 approaching my 20th birthday.
And I was at a gathering, actually what might be described in the West as a party
at the house of one black American friend named Homer Fleetwood, he had been a Vietnam veteran. And he was somewhat politically aware.
at this party, we were drinking scotch and whiskey beer was available right.
At the at the party I was able to meet, I began a conversation with one African gentleman now this was in Boston, Massachusetts. So there are many foreign students at the house. There were many people from different places. And one of them at the party was from Senegal, from Dakar, he was dressed in a in a suit. And he was clean shaven.
It turned out later that
he had been given an African name.
Meaning in his language, that means cut like it means.
Like, like the name I saw there, but I didn't. So I didn't make any association, that he would be Muslim for anything to this effect. And he looked very European and in appearance.
And as it turned out, even in his
appearance, you seem very European. Yes. And as it turned out, he had actually studied Marxist theory and political science at the Sorbonne in Paris for six years before I met him. Right. So you might say that alarm sent him like a Mista. Like, I can't open my heart.
Because his his knowledge of Marxism was from books. And it was great, my great knowledge, mine was only emotional black. And since his studying in Paris, he had returned to the Dean of Islam.
Having found no consistency in the behavior of work, and no fluff, no true brotherhood, my boxes spread, right. So at this particular party, I had no idea of any of this information. All I knew is that this
was an African studying at MIT University and intellectual for Africa. And he addressed me and he said, you know, Henry Kissinger, this American Zionist diplomat of yours, he's calling us many trouble, Africa in the third world. And he said, You must make some sort of an effort as an American, you must be responsible and tried to help educate him and get him under control.
And I, at that point in my life said to him, I said,
these type of people, they don't listen to words. So you might answer them only with bullets, shoot him, this is the way to do it. Words, one pellet. And he said to me, in Java said to me, he said, You're a very unusual American. He said, I must come to your house and visit I said, Please, anytime.
So after one week, I was very surprised, because he showed up at my front door, and he came and spoke to me only political discussion. I offered him one cigarette, and he smoked with me.
And the discussion was very intense. And he was very aware of things that I never even considered in terms of political side, right. So I began to respect him greatly.
But he was a secret agent for a while, you could say
it was a lost secret agent that is very intelligent. Yes. And not once in a conversation did he mentioned Islam or Koran, or the word Allah or Muhammad, right?
Because he knew if he'd done it, I would have chased him right out of
your friendship would have been finished.
Thank you all only talked to me about political knowledge, which was above mine until I respected him very much. And after that first conversation, I said, this is a very knowledgeable Marxist from West Africa, right? I must study with him. I must even be willing to humble my side. Because his knowledge is above mine. If I don't, I may miss something.
So you came again, after a week?
as the first time I get offered him a cigarette? Yeah. And he refused it. And I felt socially uncomfortable. So why did you take it the first time this is something that matter? You refuse my cigarette today? psychology, let me tell you that this psychology is given to us in the Holy Quran, when those angels came to
give the good news, yes. Exactly that now he had prepared the fatted calf, yes.
This will get started and get started. But the angels wouldn't put their hands into the food. so
terrified, these people must be intending somehow, you know, when a man comes to your house sits at the table.
So it worries me in this way. Exactly.
Danger said he said, Look, we are the angels of the Lord. And we do not eat
this food. Yeah, physical sustenance is not
a spiritual food from God.
That type of energy happened in your life. Exactly. Yeah. And so at that point, he said to me, he said, You know, I'm not like you, I can take the cigarette, or I can leave it. But you you're a slave of the cigarette, you must maintain your peace of mind. So I thought that this personal this discussion of personal politics was very interesting discussion of personal politics. And, again, continue to have with me strictly a discussion of political thought.
And it wasn't until the third visit, yet something really interesting began to happen, because in the middle of the third visit, after another week, he came and began to speak with me more political. He said to me, look, Brezhnev, the leader of the Soviet Union, is a collector of fancy automobiles. Yes, yes, Ferrari.
Mercedes Benz Rolls Royce, is this is he really following the example of proletarian brothers? And I said, No, he is a hypocrite.
Right? So he began the discussion and it was really interesting me very much, but in the middle of our discussion I had Excuse me, may I go upstairs and use your bathroom and your washroom? And I said, Please, help yourself upstairs.
But after a few minutes, I begin to hear a lot for Allah. Allah, Allah, Allah, Allah.
And I do. Yeah.
And from Hollywood, or from wherever I picked it up. I knew that this was Islamic.
Islamic Deen. And I was very disturbed because I put
on top of your head on top of my head. And I said, How can this man so as intelligent as this man, be involved in such childish activities, and religions? And when you walk down the stairs, I confronted him at the bottom of the stairs. And I said, my friend, you are really wasting your time I heard what you're doing upstairs is praying or something. And you must stop. This is garbage immediately. Please stop right now.
I said to him, How can a man so intelligent as yourself, you're wasting your time like this with prayer, when you know better,
you ought to know better. And you should know that all religion is the opiate, the opium of the people. How can you be praying? And I said, Your mother in Africa must have brainwashed. Yes. But even that is not an excuse, because I'm so intelligent as yourself has no excuse to be brainwashed by an old woman. I said, How can you be doing this today? And I said, Not only that, you're very rude. Because I said, if you have good manners with me, you wouldn't have convinced me that you're a truthful and sincere Marxist, actually, and then pulled out of the bag at the last moment that you're involved in some idiotic religion. I said, this is very deceptive of you, and not
And I looked into his eyes at this moment, and he was very peaceful, very relaxed.
I had attacked him almost as harshly as over the top.
His sister and his brother, and his brother in law with my friend Ninjago was completely relaxed. And he said to me, he said, Look, he said, I know you. But you don't know. He said, I see inside you, I see your button. But you don't even see me on the outside. You don't see my doctor, you're a blind man. I said, No, it's not me with blind, it's your blind. And on top of that, you're also crazy. And I was very rude to him. But he very easily got to me. And we were standing in the front door of my house, and he left without a word.
So after he left, I thought to myself, and I said, this is a very nice man, very intelligent man. But he has many emotional problems, perhaps something has forced him toward this religion, and of Islam, and something forced him into prayers, that maybe a human weakness, maybe the fact that it's part of his culture, and he hasn't been able to weed out these, these elements of Islamic culture in the Senegalese personality. But perhaps, if I stay in this friend, slowly, slowly, I can help him with his sickness, and stopping from praying and taken out back from the company of those who are involved in this nonsense, right, and help him and purify him to be a true Marxist again.
Yes, so the problem was, is that after that, you might say that my intentions were very good, but the knowledge because I wanted to help him according so Allah, so my condition, and saw that with the knowledge I had, I wanted to do the best thing possible. So he rewarded me a lot, a lot eroded, rewarded me for my intention.
And then the next meeting I had with this gentleman, he said,
he said, he stopped all conversation of politics completely. And he simply began to give me arguments from the Koran, without me knowing that this is Cora said to me, You have eyes in your head. And you see, have you ever doubted, for instance, that there's one more seeing the new that there's of us here? He said, You you think you have intelligence? Have you ever doubted for the smallest moment that there's an intelligence greater than you? And then he began to tell me that in all of human history, there's been few human beings, their words are consistent with their action, he began to speak of Muhammad sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, and how when he is the ruler of Arabia,
Arabia, Saudi Arabia, he was sitting on the floor, and eating dates with the people and leading a very consistent life.
So after that discussion, I said to myself,
if I don't study something in Islam, not only will I not be able to help this man out, but he will even get me confused. And I will lose my way, right? So I, he never told me you read Koran, or do this or do that he was much more subtle in his approach. And with some individuals, this is necessary, right? Because there could be another factor. That is that he knew that he will be meeting again and again, let's say it was the only only opportunity like in the
beginning of the beginning of and now then you have to start doing the job. Yes.
Exactly. But you have time with me. So he didn't even say to me, you read this or read that. He simply left at the end of this conversation. This this longer conversation, I said to myself, if I don't study something of Islam, not only will I not be able to help him out, but I myself will be getting confused, because he's very intelligent.
He's very aggressive
in this way.
And he's very tricky, because I saw before how he is deceived. So I said, I myself will go to the library, and I will read the Quran because I knew from his past experience from from Blue
study that this is the book of all the Muslims, right? So I went to the library in the United States in Boston and I checked out a copy of the Quran English interpretation of the Quran, right? That was done by one non Muslim, and his name was stale. And it was a very bad interpretation.
Very bad interpretation of the Quran, very unclear. And I returned to my house. And actually, I locked myself in one of the rooms of the house because I was living in the company of other marketers. And I didn't want to be found out that I was even studying these books I like, and I began to read the Quran, this very distorted interpretation by a non Muslim.
And about halfway through the Quran, I began to get very disturbed, my heart was very disturbed. I never read the Bible before as I told you, and fortunately, I think for me, I went directly a lot we directly to the Quran, even from an enemy, even enemies point of view, some deeply into my heart, right, and the arguments of the Quran cannot be underestimated. Because in the Quran, Allah implies, because his words can only really be recited to Arabic. But the meaning for those of you who speak English is he said, I created you from a drop of sperm. Yet you stand in front of me open enemy, love and assess if all if all the trees on earth were pen, and the ocean were full of ink, and seven
more oceans behind them were full of things, then my words would go on and on forever. So I realized that this was a very serious book. And it was not just a book of paper, right, but also a book of light, and a book of infinite meaning, right. And I began to get very agitated and confused, to the point of tears, yes. And I began to cry. And I tried to call my Muslim friend on the phone, and he was away for three weeks for vacation.
My state was still very miserable, I had no one to see comfort.
And it was as if I was in jail.
And I said to myself,
although I was talking to my Lord, without realizing it's not what I said, Oh, my God, all these years, my mother said before he got
all these years, I've been deceived. And I have to admit my mistake, but it's very difficult. I said, 20 years is alone.
And I said, You know, I believe in Allah, Allah, I believe in you. And it was a big moment, and a moment almost like that, that a woman has when she gives birth, because it was painful. It was full of joy, and pain, and sadness, and tears and blood, all at the same moment. And yet, I was very happy today. But as I began to read this distorted version of the Quran, I said to I said, this cannot really all be from Allah, because I didn't understand well, the history of the Prophet Muhammad, and so on.
And one thing I'd like to point out, you know, from my perspective, after having been Muslim in United States and the United States for 10 years, it's just that an understanding of the history of the prophet SAW, is almost essential to an understanding of the world right. And this is one of the weaknesses up to this point in making data in the United States. Because although there are adequate interpretations of Quran available, the best histories of the Prophet Muhammad so long, some are very difficult to obtain, and or unavailable. So this is something in the effort of dollars, which must be looked into one of the best is done, I believe, by Martin Lang.
Otherwise known as Abu Bakr Sirajuddin, is who is an English Muslim, and it's available but for $25 Yes, so this book needs to be made available at a lower price. But anyway, I I didn't believe in the whole Quran, I believe part of it from a lot of it was not that I couldn't understand the historical part. But some of this, I said, Yes, this is the word of God. This is the other part, I was unsure because of the bad interpretation I and my lack of knowledge of history.
But at a certain point, in when I was reading the surah, the believers certain moving in
a lot said in this particular chapter of the Quran that those who accept those who trust in the Quran, they, among other things, they established prayer, yes. And I was confused. And I was agitated and I said, you know, Allah, I believe in you so much. I said, I'm actually going to try to pray. But I said, you know, this is going to be very difficult for me. I never prayed and prayed before, please be patient with me. And try and help me strengthen me because I almost even though I believe in you, I almost hate to do this.
So again, I had no companion today, actually, my first thought was between me and Allah. No, there was no advice and no person there. And I knew from again from Hollywood or from or for some somewhere, only knows that a Muslim and they bring bowing down
falling to the ground. Yes, exactly. So I fell into sujood prostration, my head, my knees on the ground and my forehead on the ground, like a baby, anything along those only which way but I certainly wasn't the kid like,
it doesn't matter because my heart was directed towards him. So he is he is alpha d and Rashid. And so inshallah that prayer was guided all the way to him. But at that moment I felt some peace and some Salama the same way that all muslimeen after the prayer, they feel the Malaika descend, even if they don't see you there with the eye of their heart or their physical eyes, still, they feel the companionship of the angels. And they feel the peace, that that the five Muslim prayers bring to them. And I began on that first prayer even to feel tranquility and ease and reassurance from a lot and strength. And I was very, very much relieved that. And after one day or two days, I called
again, my friend.
And I said, You've been away for a long time, as I've been doing some reading. He said, What did you read? I said, I read. He laughed, and he said, Oh, I think you're at this point, like a ripe fruit on the tree ready default, I see your condition, you must be very agitated. I said, your red light condition, literally from a distance. I said, I'm confused. But I'm not confused. I said I must be Muslim, I must accept Islam. He said, Please, take your time. Don't rush into this decision. I said, because
he said to me, there's no compulsion in like, the right way, it's clear from the wrong way. Right. So he said to me, you know, Islam, and being a Muslim is a serious decision. So you must take your time, so that you must remember, once you do it, you can never return, you have to be very serious about it and take your time. And don't rush into it. Right? Just like a marriage, to know that man or that woman will before you take the planning.
And so I spent a couple of weeks studying with him and speaking with him. And after these two weeks, we went to the mosque in the United States, in Boston in Boston, where there were only a few Muslims present. Yes. And I said the Shahada there with them. And since that time, a lot continued to guide. So this is my history never before recorded. And it's a benefit to any of the Muslims, or any of those who are interested in Islam.
How did you get onto this TV to talk and win? Well,
I entered the ship in Los Angeles, for the purpose of experiencing all parts of western society, right? Because Allah has said in the Koran, to travel, and see my eyes
and see my cinema to fill out the travel to the earth and see one Zoo and see that data can
what has happened to do before you mean in history, people, nations have been destroyed for what people do today. So damages people, a lot
of people have not me see what has happened to in the past in the
archaeological researches that you can make, like in Monte Daro and send it out.
When you go and see these things, then you realize there might be people living on this earth, long before Hitler and Mussolini, and
civilizations, you know, building monuments.
Other words, this is a lesson that I want to stream by my travel. So if we chose that intention, it's also an act of virtue, blessing, some are religious duty with the idea, not just to
have a jolly good time.
No, not at all. Not at all. So for this trip, I visited the muslimeen in Bali, in Thailand, where I even had dumped there were Muslims. Can you tell us something about these Muslim habitation communities like in Bali? Well, of course, in Bali, you know, it's one of the islands It is one of the Indonesian. Exactly. It's one of the Indonesian islands. And as some of the listeners to this conversation may realize, Indonesia has one of the largest population of Muslims in the world, many countries If not, to be Yes, yes. And yes, the island of Bali is
is mostly the population is mostly Hindu and Buddhist
with a very small proportion of Muslims there.
Yet the relationship between Muslim and Hindu and Valley is not like that which you would find in India. It's a much more relaxed relationship. And although the Muslims are in minority in the islands, they are majority throughout the country in the Hindu show.
For example, you see photographs of the Muslim leaders of the whole country, right? And they respect Islam very much in an unusual way. So it's a very different situation. But they're I landed in putting by volley and I went to the masjid there. And
all the little children gathered around, and they were very surprised to see me because they rarely receive a visitor from outside outside of Indonesia.
Very unusual for me exchange address, and hopefully there'll be some communication. Yes, when you visit to Thailand, then also in Thailand.
I stopped at the tire. The tire, which is one of the worst red light districts of prostitution in the world, that's the whole law, which actually was created, which actually was created by the American military when they had their soldiers in Vietnam. And they sent them on leave, they would send them they created the city of Pattaya, the district of prostitution. Is it some far from Bangkok? No, it's about two hours from Bangkok on the beach. And it's one of the most outrageously
crude places in the world. But as I walked, I arrived there in the morning, and things have not yet reached their peak of
the ship at Harvard at
this red light district.
And we took a look Bangkok, Bangkok No. And we took a small launch into the shore. And I walked through the streets in the morning, before things had really reached their worst. And the next day, I had in the morning, and I walked in, I saw the condition of things, how horrible really could be, because of everything I've seen in the United States. Even this red light district was really more outrageous than
and I was walking towards the outskirts of the town, and I had no idea that there were muslimeen Initially, I thought they were all down near the Malaysian border. And here we were over on the east coast of Thailand, Cambodia, right. And I had no idea but I was walking towards the outskirts of the city. And there I saw two men or with oriental faces, Muslim, identify them as Muslim. They
were wearing Muslim style, and I'm wearing the right
and they said come to our house and they went
to their house. And it was raised on wooden stilts and the wooden floor and there was the grandfather and the father and all the grandchildren and many people in the family and and the names of Allah Mohamed Salah, listen, we're on the wall. Yes. And I was really quite impressed and quite surprised. Because also they had a strange custom which I've never seen anywhere else in the Muslim world. Yeah. And that is that they had the names of Allah and Muhammad, and verses from Quran tattooed with ink into their skin. Yes. And I think the bodies on the bodies. And I think that this custom is not exactly something that the prophet SAW.
But out of devotion, they've done this, and perhaps ignorance that he that he hasn't driven this, right. So it was an act of love. And I didn't mention it today.
Then they invited me to eat with them. And I expected a small meal because the house was a very simple place and I but they brought me tray after tray of food. I said What is this? And they said one of our daughters is married to a man from buffet and they just had a child come late night ceremony of the baby lay and this is leftover food we're serving, right? So later we went to the masjid in Thailand, yes to the mosque, and we prayed. And in the evening, they said, Come, we will show you, our city.
We are going to take you on a Islamic tour.
As well it wasn't meant really is that they were going to show me even the worst manifestation of the human character that so that also I could be prepared to meet our enemy. You know, because until you understand shaytaan very well. You can you can do better, but you can't.
And once your mind is very strong. Even you've changed the condition of a people before they change you because
when you stay with the people for 40 days, you become like that, like you like that. And so when you're strong by loss isn't by luck permission, truly, you can walk into a city like that and change the hearts of people in there, which we did because we met some Arab boys there who are on vacation to make some mischief right? And we got them into a conversation about Islam and they were practically in tears. Yes. So this is possible Allah makes all things
you see it mentioned casually even remain
way you live in the America there is an Indian country.
The reading is what made
this Indian community
behaving in Islamic way.
In some ways this is true. So if you can tell us something about that kind of community, anything can be done to remember. Exactly. Well, I live in the city of New Mexico. tn o 's. Exactly. It sounds like it sounds like it's an unusual word. Yes. And New Mexico is the state, of course, between Arizona and Texas. And towers is a very unique city. In a sense that in our city, about two kilometers from my house, yes. is the oldest inhabited apartment building in the United States. oldest
apartment building in United States. 100 years old. Yeah. So that goes back way before Columbus, mud bricks that three storeys high, right. It's inhabited by the
Indian truck de la giwa. Yes. And, of course, the Cuba tribe has maintained their traditional life up to the present moment in history. So in the village, the tribal chiefs in the old part of the village, the tribal chiefs are very conservative. Yeah, there's no electricity. No television. Yeah, even in some places, no running water, yet still their bet their bread is baked in mud oven today. Right. And their life is traditional by choice. Right? must be understood. It's not by force. Yes. And also, their, their, their their life transaction with their Creator is very unique. Yes. And although it's not the place of someone outside, they're trying to understand deeply their
traditions. Yes, very briefly, I can say that,
that they believe very strongly in the Creator.
But the knowledge of Mohammed
has not been conveyed to them. Right. And I would say that the message of Jesus has been conveyed in a distorted way. Right? So many of them are clinging very strongly to the original Deen, which Allah has given to that their specific tribe. And if you study the Quran, you say that you you see that in the beginning, each gathering of people was given a form of Islam, or a revelation to suit their own specific situation. And so to to try this claim very strongly to this original teaching, which has been revealed over the years for their benefit. And there are very natural people living very close to the land, they still hunt in the mountains, they gather their own firewood. And many of these
things, and even some American tourists, some white American tourists or foreign tourists who come there that are a little bit taken aback, because on the back of some of the Indian pickup trucks, you will see a bumper sticker that says, For example, Custer die for your sins.
Custer, the American general who attacked and was killed by the Indian Sioux Tribe, after the famous American general who, who died fighting Indians, Custer died for your sins.
So the Indians are there in like city are militant, I would say in an intelligent way. Yeah. And they understand their position and their rights in the area. So there are fascinating and very generous people, they speak English, they speak English as well as, as well as the traditional language. Some of them also speak Spanish. Yes. But the point is, is that they're living in a way very close to Allah. Right. So in order to benefit from Islamic discussion, they must see a very truthful Islamic example.
Yes, and because of the relationship between the European Americans and the Indians, I, I have never felt it's my place to try to invite them strongly to Islam. Because it has to come from someone who was was not a part of this
conflict today. And just because of who I am, even though I'm Muslim, my ancestors that have taken place with me this conflict and they must hear from someone who's detached completely from this very old, like
a brown Indian good to the idea
that rather than going to the red man into the white man, Gregory,
when you described this community, brings to mind the Quranic verse
tells us that every nation has had a guy
and they never was it people without a warner.
And again, the place
Every nation that guy, this is the last promise that this is a he is not partial towards his creatures that he's gonna pick up only one tribe out of the millions of tribes of the earth for this special spiritual favors, and he's gonna neglect the rest of mankind, which according to his capacity and understanding was given guidance. exactly it is for us to bring them to a greater guidance, the perfect guidance for their needs,
maybe 2000 years ago, and because they had no written language, and
language, they have no written language, so they can't remember the names of the Prophets.
Other people that they might say, you know, like my own people in South Africa here, we have resumes long before the white men touch the shops of this country. They believe in God Almighty, they have a civil suit because God Almighty
is for God Almighty is one low honey low.
And if you ask an African said What is this
what is this is now it tells us in his own native language, this
is a pure and holy spirit.
And he does not be getting
on I can there is nothing I can do him
is actually giving us a paraphrase of
And as he didn't memorize the meaning of his own language, very interesting.
To share we have to open up doors, you know, enable us to have communication with
one another interesting coming from this feeling. You have an old like that in America, among the Indians. You see when I came to your country in 1977,
your earrings you see us TWA and what a beam and what and whatnot. Among them is what is called elegant,
spent like a Ll E. Ga ny elegant. Right. So I went to this elegant counter.
And I'm asking them what is allowing me
to relax while low honey? Hello, me? Yes, yes, I'm asking what is elegant. So they say they have a mountain here they America, and the Indians named it. So from the elegant mountain, elegant?
Elegant, it means Allah as rich. As the Quran says, What level me?
Salah rich, and you are beggars. So as you know, it is so easy to find ways of communicating, somehow get through to these people, the teachings, whatever it is they have, I'm sure the concept of is not spot there. In Indian, I'm talking about Yeah, you will be standing concept of God Almighty. And this is our belief. Yes, one thing about the tribe and many of the other Indian tribes in United States is that they do have a more concrete concept of the unity of the Creator. And so the idea of Trinity Yes, is unacceptable to many of them. Because they appreciate the symbols of God and the meaning of God in the mountains, that in their own cells, which is what a lot of the Quran
indicates when he says, when he implied in the Quran, a lot implied in the Quran, I will show you my is my symbols memorized. In your own cell, actually, you're certain that this is the truth. And so they are all human. All human tribes and people were created in the future of Allah, meaning reflecting the attributes of the Creator, being naturally generous, naturally brave, naturally
And so in that sense,
because let's say the some of the Indian tribes in the United States have clung to a traditional life, and to simplicity, this is a big part of the sooner of the light transaction of our Prophet Muhammad was simplicity. So even if you lead a simple life, and you you don't understand the Quran, still, you're putting some of it into practice without knowing it. Right? And this is why some of my brothers in the Middle East they said to me that if you want to understand Islam, better that you must study more Arabic language. Yes. And I said, Yes, this is a good point.
Because the Koran, and the sayings of our Prophet Muhammad SAW Allah in Arabic language. But I said also if you want to understand your language, your Arabic language, you must understand the meaning of the Quran.
Because reading, being floated Arabic is no guarantee of understanding. That's true. That's what the understanding comes from implementing and practicing injunctions and commands and following the instruction contained in the clause, right? So that in one sense, like a Muslim in the middle of Yugoslavia, yes, who speaks only a few words of Arabic, right, maybe closer by by doing what he's been commanded to do, than someone who has memorized the whole Quran and yet is not living by those words. So both is important because the Arabic language takes you to a deeper understanding. But but but the correct behavior, yes, takes
you reading and imbibing the messages Exactly. Because Allah tala will not be satisfied from you, or from me or from any one is listening to this discussion within Islam of mere outward appearances, we must be inwardly obedient as well as our image. So this is inshallah and now this look of propagation in America, and any Muslim communities, you know, out
out of their way to propagate the deal, because now you have come into some by accident, then by design, you might say that
he is a gift from you. But now the bulk of mankind they need the men person like, you know, in the time of the Prophet, in the tap of the prophets, the prophets of God went out of their way to deliver the message. Yes, exactly. They didn't sit back at home and waiting for somebody, a customer to come along.
for 900 years,
for 23 years, a hectic life going out, he goes through time he gets a meeting, he comes back, and he doesn't go to sleep. This is a constant endeavor. Is there any such type of activity being carried out in your
speech about all United States? Yes, because it's one since it's one country, or one world, one situation throughout the United States. And of course, there's a considerable amount of activity. And at this point in history,
people trying to make the
truth of Islam, putting it in the open so that people will have a choice. And I'd say, among the different groups who are active is, there's there's the is the MSA, the Muslim Student Association of the United States, in Canada, we're doing a certain type of work, right, which is efficient, especially with certain types of individuals that are active on university campuses, intellectuals and this type of people, right, but it's other departments. They're not fulfilling the need. Right. Then also, there's the work of Jamaat, notably, the dollar organization, that's, you know, Indian Pakistan, they're doing another job, right. And quite active, I would say that, but also, there are
some that are not being reached completely by, right. And I could mention also the name of, let's say, one man shake their archivists in upstate New York, is based in Washington, but he is the leader, you might say, the Emir of one Muslim community in the state of New York in waterpoint, New York. And he is bringing a whole nother caliber of people
in a very subtle way. His father was a shaper of tasawwuf. in Yugoslavia. Yeah, he understands very well, the knowledge of hearts and the knowledge of the souls. So he's able to be able to make very subtle dollars to be the people who you wouldn't ordinarily think that I would come to the dean in America that I, for example, doctors, lawyers, and very sophisticated Americans. And so a lot is working in many unusual ways in the United States. But there's still a great need of concentrating
and uniting the effort in an intelligent way. because money is not the problem. Yes, in the United States, yes. But it's really being sensitive, and intelligent when approaching the American people, because there are very wealthy people that are very intellectual people in general, and you must present all sides of this joy to them. And and you yourself must trust very much in the verse of the Quran, which says this in the long run him like a coffee cutter.
Which means in other words, there's no compulsion in life transaction is the right way to live America that you must when you're making in the West among the Americans and among the European people. Show them all sides of the situation and trust in Allah that He will guide them to the right
Wait. But if you approach them as children saying, read only this book or look at things only this way, they will reject you. Yes. So
this is a this is something that if you want to bring the in terms of concerted effort, there has to be some,
the Americans have to be approached in a very intelligent way. And this is why this time, you know, some of us are interested in in creating a center of Islamic and Middle Eastern Studies in the United States, which is not exactly a university. Yeah. Which is a place where people who are really searching for knowledge of truth, not to accumulate knowledge of Deen for teaching to others, but for their own hearts and souls, where they can search and detail and review the whole history and situation from every perspective, from Sunni perspective, from Shia perspective, from the perspective of the Sufi, from the perspective of the Jews and the Christians, so that they can come
to a sound conclusion based on knowledge, because a sound conclusion based on knowledge cannot be shaken, right. But a conclusion that's not been based on being well informed, can be shaken, as mine was in Marxism.
Because I didn't understand that. And so with that in mind, it's important to provide this sort of, you know, complete information, make it accessible, because without that, the American people can never understand the current events in the world, and can never really behave correctly, in in the world situation as diplomats, as travelers as businessmen, because until you understand the Koran, you cannot understand correctly, the Middle Eastern situation. And until you understand the Middle Eastern situation, you can understand the world situation. So the key is to understand Islam, and the duty, it's our duty as Muslim me
to convey the message as my brother, you, my brother, is are making a small effort to do a humble way. Because if we don't, we cannot put the responsibility on the Jews and the Christian show, but we must take it on our own show. First, at least you must deliver the message. Yes, that is galleons, you know, they call themselves medallions.
is people doing anything that negros Americans Well, in the field of public Asia, really the chairman's in, you know, that, that that is used in the United States is really black American preferred term, you know, just for reference? Yeah. Yes, I think I think that they have done quite a bit.
Over the years, you know, it's one of the largest Muslim organizations in the United States. And,
of course, the father was the Mohammed, you know, makes a whole his history is a whole story in itself.
What the Muhammad, His story is a story in itself, something I don't really feel qualified to speak about in depth. But I will say that, of course, they made a positive contribution to the overall Islamic situation in the United States. There are some who don't agree with their views. And they and they have their
and they have some views reserved would be acceptable to all Muslims. Yes. And so like any other God, we must, we must take what's best for my brother and spit out the sea, right? Like, if I keep company with you, and you see something incorrect in my behavior, you must take the truth order that said you do something incorrect, you must leave that behind. And that way, you will find that the correct set because Muhammad once said,
in the Muslim community, there are 72 sex, I think that is that is repeated. And of these only one is on the right path. And from my own conclusions, I've come to the understanding that the one on the right path is those who truly are loving a lot. Yes, no matter what company they're sitting with, no matter what situation they're finding themselves in. And those, those are the ones on the right path.
look forward to the opportunity of meeting you again, thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to relay my story. And I have one more favor and that is to give my telephone number in New Mexico to any Muslim or non Muslim in the world, like to talk about these issues with me or that's coming to the United States to bed that really please and that is the following number. If you call it you're gonna have a word with me,
And thanks very much.
last isn't over yet. So if anyone would like to have a continued conversation with me, I'm a lot of servant. And I have nothing better to do than to sit down as I just have my brother, talk with you.
But I want to thank you very much also, because it's been a really inspirational experience also to visit Durban and the muslimeen in Durban, and, and this and the, the Islamic Propagation center. It's really it's really inspirational. And that strengthened my Eman my faith in Allah and the servants in this very day. Because in general in the world today, I think the Muslim men are in the state of the brothers of user, there are many who claim to be Muslim, but few who are living a lot correctly. And those who are loving a lot a lot directly are often being put down to well and abandoned by their other brothers. And so to meet up in the dot and to see the Islamic Propagation
center makes me feel happy as if I was deceived with use of Orlando because I see the brothers here loving a lot very much and that makes me very happy.
So that's enough of a compliment because All praise is due to compliment this man too much is if I was to kill him, so I don't want to I want to make him cry.