LOST BOYZ A Peace of Cake Podcast & Abdul Haqq Baker
Channel: Abdurraheem Green
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Salam Alaikum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh and welcome back to another edition are shown with myself here, as you all know, and our resident brother over there in the green corner. I don't know what colors but too many there. So they're welcoming our brother again. Who is Please introduce yourself. Obviously Abdur Rahim green and over there in the other corner is of course Dr.
Abdul Haq Baker, and you have read and you're watching
a cake in sha Allah and we have a very interesting topic this week, isn't it, bro the last? Yeah, last? What's this about bro Lost Boys? Good point, I think looking at all the previous discussions, it's important that we really have a look at what's taking place with our sons and the younger generation today. Because there's a lot of obscurity regarding manhood. There's a lot of obscurity about growing as men. And as I was saying, We've got we spoke about this weeks before when we looked at raising children. But this is a slightly different aspect because we've got many who have not been given the tools or equipped to grow and develop as men that we really have man babies to an
extent, and some don't like that term. And even we've we're told we're acting childlike or childish, even. Many take offense at that. And rightly so because we need to know what growing into a man or manhood is the focus on today to the focus of today's going to be, okay, who are or what constitutes or the characteristics of lost, boys. Okay, what does that mean? And many that some have contacted me and said, Oh, we remember the movie of the 80s called the Lost Boys. And it was a favorite movie. And some brothers and sisters have mentioned that. And just that the fact that that movie was a success, I remember it these boys who were street out on the street. They were actually vampires,
but they were looking function according to people's perceptions at the time, blonde haired called she everything like that. And so you have this this impression and societal perception that being
less than a man remaining. Peter panish, if you'd like is the way to go. And you only have to look at the mess that we have societally, everything. So that's what that means to me when I see
lots of boys. Yeah, I think it is. But I think the thing is, is that to be honest, bro.
I think last these days is being normal. And that's what it really is. It's just enough to be normal to be lost. Because that's what normality looks like. We live in a world we live in a society definitely that is in a state of madness, but they don't know it. Psychosis. That's what is really going on.
And everything which human society has been built upon, as far as we know, back in human history.
It seems to have sort of disintegrated and dissipated and it's not it's not it's not really a new story. It's a story as old as the hills it's a story is old a civilization you just need to look at Gibbons, the fall and Roman the fall, the rise and fall of the Roman Empire.
And just every civilization goes through this row, it's just the same, it's just the same story of repeating itself over and over again. And basically really, what it comes down to is a breakdown of you know, simple you know, basic moral principles. It's very interesting. I was reading I don't know what because I sometimes I just do this I start reading stuff on the internet and I start going from one topic to another and just, you know, get lost in this. But anyway, I was reading something about the Roman Empire know what it was, why it was Reo is to do with Christmas. So it's to do with Christmas and Saturnalia and then I started researching into Saturnalia and then I started
researching into anyway a whole bunch of really interesting stuff right?
Like oh my god that that anyway bro is a whole nother topic for discussion. Right.
But anyway, I don't want to get get too lost in it. The point but the point is that
Saturnalia at Christmas time in the Roman times it wasn't Christmas then obviously it was Saturnalia, but there was also another. There were other civil celebrations as well linked to this god Bacchus, which was the god of wine and basically Bacchus, but the cult of Bacchus was like this underground cult, where they had all of these orgies, and like really like human sacrifices, and all this stuff was going on in ancient Rome, and it was all underground, but it was like really popular. And it's very interesting that, like, a lot of there were people at the time senators and people who realized that this spread of immorality was really problematic for the stability of the empire. And
they understood the connection between morals, and you know, that strong moral standards, and really the success and the well being of you know, civilization, right. But this is something really that and it all comes really back to this idea of bringing up children with strong moral values with strong moral values that are grounded in eternal truths, the eternal truths, obviously a revelation for us the Quran and the Sunnah. But you know, even those remains of the revelation, you know, a strong Christian upbringing, all of these things roll today looked down upon frowned upon ridiculed, you know, made to look odd made to look strange. So then what are the bases? What basis are our kids
what basis our are our boys, right? But this is goes for boys and girls, but what basis? What is the basis of what they think is important in life wrong? What is the basis? What is the standard, which they used to judge? How should they behave? Right? That's the question. What are they? What standards are they being raised with? What morals are they being raised with? And my contention would be that in a world that is just pure materialism, and when non stop, you're being bombarded with you know, you need to have these trainers, you need to have this branded good, you need to have this and you need to have that. And if you're going to be cool, and if you're going to be you know,
respected. And whatever it is, you need to have these things. And if these kids won't, can't find a way to get them. League legally, they will get it illegally. If they can't, and anyone who wants to earn money, they'll just go and steal and rob and whatever, right? And this the truly you have these kids who are just well and truly lost, they have no purpose in life. They have no direction. The only thing they have is this pursuit of materialism. And like I said, if they can't get things, the legal way, they'll get things the legal way. And where are we heading? Where's society headed? Where is it, we're gonna go if this keeps going on and on, and it's just getting worse and worse. And that
moving to the legal means or whatever means that will provide that instant gratification
is an aspect of worship. As we know, in the Quran, Allah Allah says, I think it's in Soma. Have you seen him who he who has taken his desire as he's Allah, and Allah Nyingma images such as left in the street. And then we also have the description of appointing a Karine devil to share team to confound him or her with confusion, because they are now worshiping their desires, this instant gratification. So everything you said the other humans, it's really, really true and as as time has said, the more latency to lie to all our brothers and sisters who are attending and participating regularly. It's good to see familiar names and unfamiliar names and to our non Muslim guests as
well, welcome to all of you Mashallah. But as time has said, it's cool to be lost. And this is the thing now, when we look at that, as you said, Last is the status quo amongst the youth now. And when you try to provide them guidance, you're advising your son, you're advising your daughter, and they frown upon you like No, let us be, we've got to find that way. You mentioned it. Last week, in previous weeks, everything they say, children say, We've got to find ourselves, you raised us as Muslims, we need to press the reset button and find out ourselves. And that never happened in the history of parenting. It's never happened in that way. But society is providing this facility or
facilitation of them to be that way. You and I know our families were sisters. The families have called me and said my 13 year old daughter called the police and said My parents are put forcing me to wear hijab that we're encouraging her and why don't want to wear it. And within the hour, the police car was outside the home in South London, and picked up the daughter with her belongings never to be
Seen by her parents again, except when she wanted to make contact with them. We've heard these stories repeated over and over again. So what you're saying to him is absolutely true. Look, look at the story that for me, a Pitta Mises colinas in the Quran. So a calf, the people of the cave, who felt they came together. And they said, We don't want this. And they made their way to a cave. They stayed there, relaxed together. That's cool for me, because they were doing that for the they were young. And they were doing it because they didn't like the decadence and what they were witnessing in the society, that was a threat to them as young people.
I'm not saying that we want everyone to flee to a cave and in the spaces, but their premise was the dean, their premise was worshipping a lot. And while I can't say that, we should expect that we will not have that category of people today, there must be a foundation upon which the youth are nurtured and taught abdur-rahim, everything you said, was repeating in a different way, but that is necessary. So lots of boys and, and and even Muslims today, we've got brothers who were praying sisters who were praying,
and they practicing the deen Al Hamdulillah. But they want to, they want an element of that bad boy, bad girl impression. The way some of the young young people come to me or people who've heard about my past, or meet and everything and oh, yeah, you know, what we really like how you were and everything like that, do you because I came to the dean, I left what I was doing to come to the dean, I wouldn't go back to being in that way doesn't mean you become uncool. When we embrace the dean, you can be called among the dean and many like that masala tobacco. But when you're trying to follow something that is antithetical to your fitrah. And you're doing that knowing that society
supports that, and not your religiosity. This is the challenge that the young boys, young men, young women, young girls are facing today. And today, I think the discussion is around describing that before addressing it.
We shot Yeah, I mean, it is broken, I think the thing is, is that there's this certainly in the West. And I think that some of these things that we are discussing, and some of these things that we are, you know, we are experiencing as parents and the youth and so on so forth. I think they actually in many ways, are almost particular to the west, and what is dominant in the Western world. And it's interesting that in a way, it may be that this, you know, we often think that oh, why is the Muslim world so backwards, but it may not necessarily be a disadvantage from some perspectives, right? Because when you live in a very, very comfortable light, when I say comfortable in your life
and super comfortable,
then, you know, it produces this distortion of reality. And in fact, there's where's the adventure? Where's the stimulation? Where's the excitement? Like, again, a lot of young people, especially young men, I think young men, they need that they need that adventure, they need that excitement,
that, you know, they need to be challenged. This is I think it's really just really important. And you can understand, for 1000s and 1000s of years of human history. That's what young, you know, young people have done. And like we've discussed this before, we've discussed it before how, you know, in many societies, there are these rituals that, you know, a man goes through in order to move from
in order to move from childhood into manhood, right? The man who had ceremonies, right, it's interesting that even in ancient Rome, they had a form of manhood ceremony, I think when the you know, the boy became a man that he went through certain things in your war Tolga which which a particular type of total which illustrated that he was now a man, right? Like, we have nothing like that, right? We have this exactly what you'd began with this delayed adolescence. It's almost as if people are, you know, 5037 years old, and there's still kids, right? Still behaving like kids. And it's looked almost as a good thing, right? You know, like, you're like forever young it like exactly
what you said, bro. It's like this piece of Pan complex, bro. It's like this. You know, this endless child. And really, bro, some people like you, you know, literally, they're 40 years old. They're still living in their mom's house. They're still playing computer games. Yeah, they have no solid job, right? Just a little
bit to earn a bit of cash not married, can't have a stable relationship. It's basically computer games, movies, porn, you know Shi SHA, you know, eating out chatting with friends, this is their life, bro. And this is a few people, this is a lot of people. There's no challenge. There's no challenge. There's nothing to motivate them, nothing to challenge them. Right. And obviously, some do still feel drawn. So that is that it's almost that, what is it that sort of urge to rebel? Right? It's the urge to rebel. Because like, I do think there's still this drive within adolescence to do something different from what you know, everyone around them is doing, which is not in and of itself
a bad thing. What's bad is that society doesn't have a way for this energy to be channeled in a constructive direction probe. That's the real problem. And I include, by the way, Muslim Muslims, societies, Muslim families, how do they challenge this energy? How do they challenge this? You know, this drive that teenagers that kids have, right? You know, when they go through that NLS adolescence, that super energy, that vigor of youth, as you know, the Prophet said, you know, the two feet of the son of Adam will not move until it is about five. And one of the things the Prophet said is your youth and what you did with it, because the youth there's a time of energy, it's a ton
of vigor, when you can achieve so much, but what are they achieving? Nothing wrong? Nothing. Absolutely. And they're not concerned about achieving anything in a matter. You mentioned the statement there, which hasn't been put that back up, which I think fits into what you're saying consumer culture extends childhood, in order to eat captive consumers. And the consumers want to be captivated. They want to remain within that bubble within that matrix within that paradigm. And my question is this though, abdur-rahim? Looking at that, and looking at recent parties that we saw taking place in some of the countries out here, Saudi and everything, I'm hearing them express
themselves? Looking at that. How do we resist or challenge? You know what role?
Because I've been literally bro, I watched this clip. Yeah. Or
this DJ? Yeah. And look, I'm gonna be, I'm gonna be, this may sound a bit controversial, right? The for me, the big issue is not the rave. Yeah, it's not the music. Yeah, I can sort of get that. Right. What really, really got me I was listening to this Saudi guy. Yeah, some DJ. I don't know what he was. He's saying, Yeah, you basically thought this was progress. We are a modern nation. This is modern. This is progress. Right. And I thought, You know what, it's not the music that's really dangerous. It's not the other stuff. It's dangerous, that you think that this is progress. That's what's really dangerous, you are mad, die. How do you think this is progress? Right? Like, be
honest, say, Yeah, I just want to have a dance and have a good time. But you think that's progress? You think that that's moving forward? That's not moving forward? That's not going to move your society, you know, forward in any way, shape, or form? That's crazy. If you think that, you know, you are really, really lost. If you think that sorry, bro, I had to interject.
This is like, like
you mentioned and that my point is this, as you said, if there's an acknowledgment that this is what I want to do. And yeah, I know, it's just letting off steam. And I want to do that. Call it what it is. That's for everyone that's for within whatever society that you're in. But if you're now going to couch it in something that is not,
and many of the youth are doing that, but what's happening is society, particularly what I'm seeing in the West, are because they're shifting in their direction, and their values and their morals and everything.
They're taking the youth with them. So the question I was I was asking you at that end, while Luke Muslim Mueller had is good to see you there. What, what, what should be happening? Is the home is that nucleus of family parental structure, or it was let's be clear, after he knew me, even in Muslim households in the West, that is no longer the case. We can't just blame industrialization. And absolutely that centuries ago, we're talking about now that the pull of society on the young is
is unprecedented. And the diminishing of parent roles and responsibilities is unprecedented. And we have been, the state has taken more of the rights of parenting, because there's certain things we cannot do. And actually, we are aware of those. And they move into that, once they've moved into that, once they've moved into that abdur-rahim, society only in encompasses or engages with them to a certain extent. And there's this vacuum between society, and the parents home and the family home. And in that gap is where we're seeing that plummeting of hedonism, we're, we're sick. And the thing is that that Hedden ism, people are daring each other to see how far you can go. As you know, we
can't speak about certain things. Now, in that part, part of that vacuum, includes the LGBTQ, it includes normalization of drugs, hard drugs, as well, it includes
the liberalism with which people are
fornicating and enjoying each other's bodies, and not understanding the psychological and emotional.
Results are respondents, responsibilities and effects of that.
All of that's taking place within that vacuum, and society as well, for the left them in there, they've pulled them from the family home, deliberately so. And then they've left them in there, because that's a safe place to be for society to control them, they continue to throw things in there. And as makyo said, You've got willing participants who know nothing else, they know nothing else. What they do know is that morality, structure, targets, challenges, hardship, I think they need to stay away from and that's equated to the values.
And this is the thing, bro, I do think that part of the problem like I, you know, part of the, like, it's interesting. So for example, one of the things that I did, and I wouldn't say, you know, at least with, you know,
anyway, one of the things that I and I didn't do this consciously, I have to say it's sort of it's sort of like it, it sort of just happened this way. So
one of the things I did is I, you know, two of my kids, they started racing, racing mountain bikes downhill, which is quite a sort of extreme crazy thing. Very challenging, very athletic. Yeah.
And it was very interesting, bro, having a conversation with many of the parents because, you know, like, the kids obviously couldn't do this without huge support and the fight it was a big financial drain, it was a huge drain on my time on my energy, right. But it was so interesting talking to me, like all numbers, and there was no Muslims, I was really the only Muslim people that are right. And very generally very white as well. But like, it was so interesting talking to the parents and the thing that I heard again and again and again from mostly the dads because it was mostly the dads taking their kids and this is boys, you know, the dads of boys and girls, both boys and girls racing
was that we would much rather our kids were doing this than taking drugs getting into trouble committing violence, right they understood that for them this was something that they were giving their kids that was keeping them away from and it was giving them direction and to be honest that kids will put everything into it you know, blood sweat and tears. It's really challenging. Like you have to train you have to diet you have to build your skill. You know, it's like this is something like put your energy into something like that. And I was so interested in bro this having this conversation with so many parents and they would say the same thing over and over and over again.
And like yeah, not every you know it didn't always work and sometimes it didn't matter like you put all of this energy and even then the kids went off and did what they you know
you know like so many we heard about so many so many like guys who are really good but yeah then they got into cars and girls and drugs and drink and that was it they will go you know Yeah, yeah but I'm just saying bro it was this this common theme amongst parents as to why they were putting so much into this particular thing and I'm sure this is true not just a mountain biking of you know hundreds of different sports and activities and things that parents get their kids to do. Very important role and I do think we
kept away from trouble because of things like that are many Yeah, no masala and support what you're saying. I'm going to bring some personal examples here in that in that instances.
Well, for me, for example, as I said, I've just moved home, again and everything. And I'm still waiting for some of my stuff to come from abroad. But what I realized in taking my sons, because my daughter is a UK jet was you know, I was taking them to sport activities, football, Academy,
basketball, and I was traveling with them. And I found that I could discuss things with them, really trying to show them why not only the activity, but the time we were spending was important when I was in Jeddah, when I'd go to the mosque, I take them with me to speak and communicate and hear them somewhere to be private. And if we were alone, and everything like that, but then what I saw as well, which my wife and I were talking about today, is some of the furniture that we bought, we got the children involved in assembling and everything like that. And some of the stuff that they bought for themselves. We didn't make sure it wasn't too expensive, they could assemble. And they made
mistakes, the assembly of these properties, things. But then I wanted to see a learning process come from where it's like, oh, no, no, we fixed it. But would you buy something like that? Or if it was given to you like that, would you accept it? And it's like, No, I said, so why are you comfortable with that? And I didn't get it. And I said to them, Look, there's a thing about instruction, there's this thing about obedience, they have their place until you grow older. And you will have those following instructions are being you understanding the basic order in which to learn. And then I said to my younger son today, my youngest one, I said to him, you need to learn to learn, and you
just stopped, you said, what? I need to learn to learn how do you do that? I said, because you don't listen, what you do is, you're already processing in your mind what you want to say. And you're hearing noise, just so you can say what you need to say. Because you want instant gratification. You want the problem to go away if there is a problem. And it made me think if children are growing like that. Yeah. And that's got parents present. Yeah. How can they not go into an abyss of darkness? Especially those whose parents are not engaging with them up there? They're there, but they don't get why not? I know a parent, you know them as well haven't seen. Maybe you haven't seen him for a
while. But I remember that moved back to the UK. And they said one thing to me and I had to pause, I just think whoa, okay, how do I deal with this? And he said, I don't care about my child. My son is a young man now in on social media, till the cows come home, as long as he's indoors, and he's safe from the gang violence and everything outside. And that's like, Whoa, that's a very interesting point. Because I've seen the destruction and addiction of gadgets. And however why why is it why like, why? It's just laziness, bro. What what? You take your kid Yeah, to martial arts lessons, why don't you teach them jujitsu? Why didn't you go with them and do it yourself? By the way, you know,
I'm not saying this to boast. But you know, like, I hear where I live. Yeah, I've done all of my kids, all of my kids except one daughter, because she went to university before, they're all black belts. Some of them are third down black belts in freestyle martial arts. I myself got my black belt. Like a few months ago, I never imagined I would have gotten a black belt. And I only did it because I went along to the classes with the kids, right? Like, because you got to talk the talk. You can't just you know, like, say, yeah, you go and you know, why not? You know, I'm gonna take them I might as well join in. Right? And, you know, the thing is, like, it's not just that it's
like, these are the things like why would you just let them sit on social media? If you know, you know, this person who said this, bro, what the hell? Right? Get off your backside and go and do something with your kids. I think about my wife brothers stuff that she used to do. So Hannah, Allah, she used to take them to tennis. She used to take them to taekwondo. She used to do all of these things. And you know, this is when I was traveling around the world giving talks and lectures. May Allah bless her. Even the stuff she did was amazing. Yeah. Because she understood this thing you got to give the kids you know, you. You don't? Why would you want them sitting at home in front on a
screen? And you think that that's going to save them? Like that's out of the frying pan into the fire? Exactly.
Like at least with a game, they may either they'll probably learn and wait a lot more constructive stuff to get them alive in life. Not trying to encourage gangs or anything like that, you know, I mean, but what sitting on a computer social media. That's a good point. I didn't even I didn't ask him because that's a good question. I didn't ask him. I'm thinking. Now I'm thinking, Yeah, I should have asked him What are you doing with your kids? But I didn't ask. So it can't be. It's either this or it's either that we've got to be the ones if we
Have that engagement with our children to help them negotiate through these challenges. So for example, Abrahim, you've said you did martial arts good on your martial and when next time we're in Brixton, you can stroll with me down the darkest parts and everything. Yeah, we'll do that together. Because you know, South London quite well, now you're now your black belt. But what I'd say also what I did as well, I started I thought, when I was in Saudi, I saw there weren't many activities for the children. So some brothers and I, we started our own football academy. We had a style and league differently. All of this we did, taking my children every weekend, I was exhausted by
Aberdeen, because come back from work and working six, seven days a week, but I saw what he was doing with regards to their belif benefit their psychological, emotional and physical. And it's a time when you can engage with them. Because after he, what some of us did. In the early days, when we had children and this idealism, we sat down with dudes, all we do with them, was teach them about Deen according to our understandings and remember, according to the formative stages that I discussed, we were at that very idealistic should indeed stage. Okay. And the results of those parents who have continued with that their children are not on the dean
at this psychological issues there. Yeah, there's, that's a problem when you do bro, like, like you said that because in my house, like, I have only probably once or twice sat down with my kids, and taught them Islam in a formal way. Obviously, we talk about Islam and the deen the whole time, but it's not like we talk about it in the sense that we're giving them a talk. It's just part of how we live our life, right. So they should know a lot of stuff. But they know it from the way we live. I literally have only sat down with them. Like they I do this retreat for non fun for new Muslims, part of what we do in AI era. And so I've invited the fact my family has come along, and the kids
have attended that. And I because I haven't had a chance with this. My youngest law, I sat down, but otherwise, like, actually, they're really thirsty for Islamic knowledge. So when I do it, bro, it's like, they really love it, because I don't give them too much of that formal stuff. And that's against sort of reverse psychology, bro. You understand? It's like, if you're just forcing it down, then we'll the whole time it's not on? When is he going to shut up? Yeah. But if you just like, whatever it's like, well, when he you know, tell me something, Dad, tell me something, you know, like, you know, they know, when you sit down with them, they're like really like it. And it's all
about understanding this balance and understanding, you know, kids and how their minds work, you know, and being able to, you know, relate to them and understand it's not that difficult, right? And doing
that no morsel of what you said is ideal, and also doing things. Like sometimes I would sit with my children periodically, not too much if they want to. But then also we used to sit and read novels, okay, would read novels, or go around in a circle to read novels and everything? And I guess what, because the culture that they were in, they were watching and seeing other things. So for example, the celebration of birthdays, and that they say that what what is it about birthdays? I explained to them? I said, I've always acknowledged your birthdays. And they said, Okay, so is that the same? I said, this is how we do it. So literally, on and you know, you've got a lot of children, I've got
the children. So what would happen when it's their birthday would say right, everyone come and recount for us the last year? And what are your aspirations for the next year? And then I'd asked what was I'd asked the others who were in the room, because it will be sitting there. Tell us something about your sibling who's sitting at the front talking. And they say I remember when you were five. And this is what you'd like, as a five year old, or this and this. And it'd be a really humorous time of reflection. And I said, for me, that that's where we can go with that. So we're not saying that's the right way or the wrong way or whatever. No, it's really nice. I'll say I'll just
share with you an anecdote as well. My wife was telling me that she was having a chat with one of my daughters and my daughter was saying, Oh, I think I'm gonna go with my friends. Like, you know, it's my birthday, I'm going to go we're going to have a dinner and this and that. So my wife said
You know, my wife said to her, you know, the Prophet Muhammad, you know, he would fast every Monday Do you know why?
Well, it was his birthday. Right? And but you know, the prophet would fast to thank Allah for his birthday and every every day every Monday like every week, and what are you doing? And it's like she doorway all quiet that stage was like, you know, penny drop moment. And it was like it was good because it's like, you know, we're not like we're we're I guess at the same The thing is that there's some things were a little bit chilled about and we don't you know, you got to choose your battles, bro. Exactly.
To the point
where the only battles Abrahim, sometimes only two evils, and you've got to choose the lesser of the two. We're seeing that increasingly in the western when some brothers and I've discussed and they've said, I don't do this, I don't want to do that. And I said, Well, can what's the result? This us locate? Have you considered that sometimes you have to evil evils, and you should choose the lesser of the one, so that don't move towards that evil? Sometimes we only have that choice. So yeah.
So for me, this is the thing now talking about the lost boys and lost girls won in this example. They don't choose the lesser of the two evils. And if there's a good and there's an evil, they are inclined towards the evil, because society has told them this is okay. Yeah, no society. And when they get older, as you know, we lose that influence on them. And parents shouldn't want to be controlling their children. And we do have to understand their changes taking place in them as they grow in. And they'd like to point out things their way and everything like that. But it's not a blank slate. It's not as though they haven't been raised upon some particular guidance, values, and
nurturing hasn't been. And this is the problem now, because we see that sometimes you look at your children's right, I don't recognize you, is this is what has been underlying all the time that you've been growing, I don't recognize you. Because society allowed them to have a duplicity of lives, okay, outside of the home, if they're within your home, they can do whatever they want. We don't know what they've been exposed to in social media, it's not kid ourselves. We can't police, our children. On social media, we can't be like some parents want to be there dropping their children right up into the 1819 20, waiting outside college, university and everything like that,
that's not going to keep them from moving in the direction that they've been pulled towards, and the peer pressure and everything like that. But what we need to look at abdur-rahim and this is the thing I want to ask you, as I started out, how do we counter
the societal drive?
to immerse our children into whatever culture
is prevalent in society? How do we counter that? I think, bro, you've, I think you've already provided a really good clue for everyone. And it's like, exactly what you said you did to your sons, you said to them, you let them buy some furniture. And you let let them build it themselves. Right. And I am a great believer in in it. I think this is the key. I think the key is an empowerment. And what we have to remember is
it's not about giving our kids a list of instructions. You can do this, you can't do this. Yeah, this is allowed. That's not allowed. Know, what is? I mean, obviously, they need to know that. Obviously, they need to know that they need those strong they need those moral guidelines. Of course they do. But what is more important than that is and I have to say mashallah, my wife is really good at this. Yeah. Is giving them the tools that is going to allow them to navigate the world when they go out into it. Right. That is the key is that classic thing, if you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day? Yeah. But if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for life. And that's the other
thing. It's not what is not important. What is not so important, is, you know, the do's and the don'ts. What is more important in a way is, how are you going to navigate that world as a Muslim, right? If you're a Muslim, and by the obviously, looking at Saudi Arabia now, it's like, you know, like you said, the whole rape thing and this and that, like, Okay, what's gonna happen in 10 years, what's gonna be like, in 10 years time, we have to ask us, so every parent is going to be confronted with the same pro, you don't want to just be able to say to your kid, Do this, don't do this and that it's not like that anymore. Right now, you are going to have to understand that there's a world
out there with all of these temptations. So what do you need to do? You need to train your kids to resist temptation, you need to teach them to delay gratification, not to be worshippers of their desires. Yeah, not to just do whatever they want, when they want as they want how they want. You need to and that is more important than ever, right? Is giving your kids the tools of self discipline. That is what it is all about bro. Self Mastery, giving the kids the tools of self mastery. I do think sports competitive sports right, as others have really, really
helped with that, again, like, I'm not trying to, you know, push a particular sport. But I think in the case of a sport that is like, okay, football is great because it's in a sense, like you learn to work as a team. And that's very important, no doubt, right? Working as a team is a key part of where you want to be in the future. But you also need something that is really focused about you as an individual, you need to learn to be very disciplined, it doesn't need to be a sport, but something where those kids are going to learn that element of self discipline of delayed gratification. That yeah, in order to achieve something greater, I know I have to give up something I want right now.
But it's going to be worth it. Because on what what I'm going to get at the end is going to be worth it. And it could just be little things you do with your kids. I don't know. Like don't give them all those cakes and chocolates and everything they want make the work for it. Like I have never given my kids pocket money, bro. Right? Maybe it's because I'm stingy. Maybe it's super stingy, or whatever, right? But for me, it's like, you know, no, if you want money, you work for it, you earn it, you whatever, right? You do something to get that Mom, you're not just going to give you what you want, and they never almost never get anything, what they want, just when they ask for it. Yeah, it's
like, they're going to need to prove in some way, shape or form that they are worthy of getting that thing, right. And I think there's those type of things that are very, very important, bro. Otherwise, we're gonna have we're gonna have lost boys and girls. I don't know your wife. And there's two two points came up from
colleagues who are with us today. And Matthew asked for a rephrasing of the question and hasn't can put that up, I think, can we, as you said, repeat, I argue me rephrase my job. How do we provide you the navigational skills that set that's countered the societal drive to secular utilitarian materialism? Brilliant question after a new address, I think and I definitely that's the more articulate way macho, thank you for phrasing that. But also those questions, the point of Chow he'd instill until he has an if you can put that up as well. And I want to touch upon that, yes, both Sheba, Omar Tauheed is the most important, okay, but one thing we've got to be careful of, in
looking at this is not it being taught in a rigid monotone, that we saw when we became Muslims. And it is very important, it's vitally important. It's the heart that beats within, within the body pumping the blood through our veins and arteries and everything. But when it's taught in a way, where you and I like using this term of the rain when it's taught in a way that's theoretical, and abstract, and it's not actualized, okay? It doesn't have the same effect. It becomes an academic exercise. And if you ask someone, okay, memorize the 99 Plus One names of a lot. They do it. Why don't you actualize that? How do you become cognizant of these aspects of Tallinn? And what I've
seen is not many are teaching it like that. As I've said this the series by Sheikh
Tai here, Wyatt, they were astonishing classes. It's the first time I've heard one of our brothers from the west teach it in a way that it I'm not saying it's dead, but you can literally actualize it immediately in aspects of your life, not just worship, not just in words. So I recommend I'd say to everyone there, shake tight here, Wyatt. If you look on YouTube Wyatt's wisdom, and you see the number of lessons, is first African American to teach in the province of slums, Masjid, he's a PhD studying
Medina, I love Him for allah sake, his knowledge is profound, but him teaching to the community, at a level, and in a way, that when you walk out every day, when you're in prayer, when you're saying Allahu Akbar, and you think about what that means, when you're just seeing that he is our man, and you're looking at the world, and the rapper that is extended, and what that means, when we talk about total heat, we can't just say it's become a catchphrase. And I'm not saying, my brother, that you're saying that, but I've heard too many people say Tawheed. And then what we see is Kitab atoll heat is taught every year for 20 years. And you don't see the effect of it on the person in their
lives. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's very profound, bro. And like what you said, is this practical, you know, and that's again, that's why I don't really have fought many, much to like formal lessons in my house. Because for me, it's like, no, you live Islam practically every single minute of the day. It's not something you do. I mean, like, of course, there is of course, there is scope for formal lessons. Of course there is Yeah.
But you know, maybe I think maybe that's not really my primary job. Job is a
parent, you know, as a Muslim parent, what I need to do is they need to see how practically you can imbibe, toe heat is imbibed into their life, right all day scale and that's, that's what your job is to do. Right? Absolutely. And to see how they're, they're knowing Allah knowing their lord is just an intrinsic part of of, you know, of their absolute everyday life. And you know, someone was saying I think referring to what I was saying previously about being you know, too hard and you know, no i How is you know, anyway I feel a bit exasperated, you know
that someone thinks that giving a kid everything they want when they want it as they want it is somehow being hard on them.
You know, you are literally you might as well just build a fire and chuck your kid in it right now, if you think that's how you're going to raise kids.
It's not love, that is not love. That is abuse. You're abusing your position, you're abusing. It's not love giving someone everything they want. It's not love. It's not kindness, it's not compassion. And by the way, a time will come and your kids will realize that they will realize write it they will just consider it weakness. Because that's all it is your it's just weakness. It's an inability to really understand what is important. And what is really good for your kid. I can't understand these parents who just give their kids endless crisps and chocolates and they have these flippin fat Rolie polie kids, and they're only fat because those parents let them eat all this crap that they
feed them. How is that? What is that? You think? That's love? That's been good, too. A kid that's been kind to a kid. It's disgusting. It's disgusting.
I don't think
parents do that to their children. I'm sorry, is gross. But
And one of the reasons some parents do this.
My kids don't think I'm hard on them at all. No, no, I'm not saying that. The person is saying that. Honestly, I believe they do not. My kids love me to bits. I love them too. But I don't think they look. Look at me as being unfair. Or in fact, the one who's the tough one is considered to be the tough one in house is my wife. So maybe
that point though, is a good point because parents they overcompensate because they want you none of us want our children to experience the hardship that we've experienced. And I agree with you entirely when I see children being sashayed in every instance being spoiled. Every instance I had a one
of my kids.
I'll let you come in Regina said the point and I like what she how she phrased it. Please put up a sign about amputating children. Okay, by not developing a sense of independence, responsibility, resilience and the kids that's point on with what you're saying after even I agree with you girl, overcompensating and making the excuse I want to give my children everything. Then they become monsters. Yeah, absolutely. Narcissistic monsters brought it pure narcissistic, you know, desire following monsters. But you know, you said something, brother. That's fine now, but now I've forgotten what it was because you
let me know. But yet he has mentioned in the seventh it was like, Oh, my God, I had to say something. But I forgot. Now. If it comes back, let me know this interjects in Sharla. But yeah, the overcompensation? We've got to make sure and study I remember now I remember what it was. Yeah, I'm almost the opposite role. Right?
In a sense that I am almost the opposite, because it's like I like so what you were saying is that you don't want your kids to go through the hardship that you went through. But in fact, in a sense, the hardship that I went through, was probably because my parents were almost too chilled with me, right.
And they were almost too relaxed with me. And they may be spoiled me, although they didn't really spoil me. But from my point of view, although I've had very, very little criticism of my parents, parenting, I think they were really, really good parents. And I mean that seriously, I think they did a great job. But I think if there was one weakness is probably they were too generous and too nice to me. Right? And that's so I mean, like, you know, my dad was very generous. He gave me a really nice allowance. I don't, personally if that was a mistake. I think that was his mistake, right? I think it's more important for kids to go through some type of hardship and go through some
type of difficulty. I suppose I did, because I went to a private school and that was pretty
You horrific. Yeah. And I had to deal with a lot of stuff that I didn't my parents weren't around. Yeah. So I wouldn't want to put my kids through that. But yeah, the whole thing of like, no, like, it goes back to what I was saying, I don't I my kids don't get stuff readily materialistic things readily from me. Not that easily. Yeah. They have to sort of work through it. They have to think it through. So like, yeah, that I think, almost in a sense. You're right. You're right in what you're saying. But I sort of take it almost in the opposite direction. If you're not interesting, though, what you said is interesting, because you said about private school. And I'm glad that you said that
is for many, they may be saying what you mean, there was a hardship guide to prime periphery.
This is this is
taken away over nine years old, 10 years old, I was taken. I didn't I spent most of my life away from my parents.
It's sleeping in a dormitory with other kids, no parents around no mum and dad to go back to at the end of the day.
Let's say you're on your own at the age of 10. Yeah, that's
important. That's why it's important. Because the perception as you know, of private education, boarding school, rich kids white privilege, what do you do? So you highlighting that I think is very important. Also, though, I think, in looking at what's been said by some of the comments that are coming up, it is down to perceptions. And you're right abdur-rahim With regards to giving your children everything. But when you've had or faced affluence, relative affluence, when you're younger, and through the split the divorce and the separation of family, you're plunged into a property that you've never imagined you would see. So when you see some of the people, and we're
talking 70s 80s, it doesn't matter what area you're living in, you're seeing people, not nine, if they're going to eat at the end of the day, seeing the mother because many of the children are being raised by the mothers, the loafer has said the single parenting and sometimes the mother cannot control especially if it's boys and girls as well. Yeah. Then beyond the home, that development.
Those children from the moment of I'm not saying that it's a lost cause. But from the moment the family unit is broken down, and there's no no figure in the home. Okay. I'm telling you more personally, I know what it's like to be lost. Yeah, I told you a whole nother topic, bro.
stays with you. And I'll give washi the shade this much review. When my father came to visit us one day, he was abroad, living abroad, he came and sat with us as adults. And I could see that my younger brothers from his subsequent marriage, okay. He shared some letters that they'd written everything. And I sat there really quietly. And it was really praising him extolling His praises everything like this. And then so forth. I'm gonna write to him. And I wrote a letter to him. And when he visited, I saw he was silent. And he was quite shocked, because I wrote in that letter, I contrasted it with my brothers who were secure. And I said, my life that and we took that loss boys,
my life has been like a ship
in the middle of the ocean, and the darkness of night, the middle of the night, you cannot see the horizon.
You cannot see the horizon of any country, you cannot see any land. You cannot see anything. You just you is in the ship, you've got no anchor to stop the ship, you've got no direction that you're actually going in. You're just in this ship, with black boys around you. Nothing Not even to see the moon at night, and you are drifting. And I said to my dad, I described it as a bit more articulate in writing. That's how I felt this is your son speaking. This has been my upbringing without a father figure.
That's how lost I felt. So then when we become parents now. Yeah, you don't have to be fathers. We've got no experience of that. Yeah, we've got no experience of that. So in that instance, when you become a parent,
and you're struggling in relationships, not just with your wife or whatever you get on with your but you're struggling to be a father. So let's be clear. That loss boy complex, yeah. Many fathers Yep. In relationships, because they have
to deal with they don't know how.
Yeah, and it's really interesting because to be honest, Raul when when we when you suggested this subject Lost Boys, this is this is was at the forefront of my mind. Honestly, the first thing I thought about was exactly this the breakdown of the family. You
You know, single parent mothers raising boys without a dad. Yeah. And the problem is that I was thinking that's like, historically, is that really a problem? Like men go to war men die fathers must die, right? That must have been happening throughout human history. But the difference was, you had uncle's you had grandfather's like the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, he was an orphan, right? Right there, he was raised by his grand he by his by his granddad, right, with great love and great affection, and he was just treated in in an amazing way. And so the point being is that there was always, like, if your dad died, that wasn't the end of it, there were other men, right? Who are
there to give you an example to care for you to show you the way. And this is all comes back to the problem with this society in which we live, where we are disjointed, where families are broken. And I'm not just talking about the new killer family, the wider family, right? You know, the whole saying it doesn't take, you know, a parent doesn't take a man and a woman to raise a child, it takes a village, right? It takes a community
problem. And then what happens bro, those gangs those you know, those whatever they may be, it may not be a gang, but it may be various other things, right? They become the, you know, the surrogate dad, isn't it, bro, that's what happens. They become the surrogate. That's right. And that's the problem because that it No More Heroes, bro, where are the role models? Where are they? Where are the male role models where they're not there? Right? That's what they're so true. Look, Mike. We didn't call ourselves a gun. Yes, we had a name. We did things together. Brilliant of individuals, many of them became Muslim. But one key
defining factor of us when we reflected upon it as we got older, my whole crew, gang posse of you like which we went into the wider circles could go 50, strong 50 D deeper, someone was an average of this, the core of us about 16 to 20 of us, all of us except one. Yeah, all came from single parent families either for all is basically wrong.
Even found Allah foundry row, but yeah, most either the father had died, or it was divorced. But every single one of us bar, two of our friends who were still with their parents, we were from single parent families. And the way the bond we had was very tight. We as as the Americans say we would write for each other, as we say in the UK, we would die for each other. That was the be all end all. Some of the scars I've got, internally, physically are because of represent in this family, this extended family. Now that I put to an extent, we disrespected our elders, there were wider community members who knew some of what we were doing. Not everything that we had, we had that
respect for elders, we had that cognizance. But we had that respect for our mothers. And my mom said to me, one thing she said to me very clearly, she said, treat women as you would like your mother and your sister to be treated. And that stayed with me. I'm not saying I've been the perfect gentleman, but that stuck with me. And also the respect we had for women because of the matriarchal influence in our lives from our mothers. Okay, so that was a good thing. But that's not necessarily the case. We have what happens now in every instance in every example when we look at gangs, so we were lost and as I said, The Lost Boy syndrome stays with you. Because you've got to navigate as a
parent, you have to navigate as a husband you have to navigate not having had that paternal figure guiding you
either the good or the bad. You just haven't had him so you're making it up as you go along throughout your life
bro it's been brilliant bro. I think it's a good time to finish it because that's just a beautiful you know, good place what can I say bro? Which is
always for your insights and
yeah, I mean and the great thing is this comes from life experience isn't it bro we're talking about our life experiences we've been there you know gone through this and gone through that and it's great to be able to share it and I hope hamdulillah some of our listeners will benefit inshallah. Absolutely. And again, your your insights and examples of rain. Wait, you know what people who are watching who are with us, Abdur Rahim and myself have not seen actually been the same physical presence for nearly 20 years, bro. Is it really you must use
seriously think about our thinking the other day we have not been in each other's physical presence and that
really feels like it bro like it doesn't feel like that because mashallah like we've been sharing this platform now like doing these tours together for a total mashallah we've done more together
after hey we traveled the country together work together you would mean so much to lots of times bro good times
different Rahim is always been a pleasure
a pleasure to have you and your contributions mashallah to Brock Allah and we look forward to seeing you next week which will be the final show of 2021
to 2022 insha Allah.
does, everyone. See you next week