New Muslim Corner – Gender Relations In Islam
Channel: Abdullah Hakim Quick
File Size: 68.47MB
Bismillah R Rahman r Rahim Al hamdu Lillahi Rabbil Alameen wa sallahu Tala. I'd say the most I mean, while he he was happy he was adequate Salam.
All praises are due to Allah, Lord of the worlds and peace and blessings be upon our beloved Prophet Muhammad and his companions forever, my beloved brothers and sisters to our friends as salaam aleikum wa rahmatullah.
So Hamdulillah. This is another evening of the new Muslim corner. And the intention of the corner. It was not originally meant to be formal lectures. But it was an opportunity for people who have recently embraced Islam, or for people who are reviving their Islam, to come together and learn about the foundations of the faith, and also have a chance to ask questions that they might not be able to normally ask. And so we have been looking at the pillars of faith, the foundations of Islam itself. And tonight, which is the last class in our series, during this winter season, we want to begin a special topic, at least to give a general overview, and to open up the door to this special
topic. I hope it's not as they say, opening Pandora's box, you understand what that means.
But this is a very important issue. And by popular demand,
we need to discuss this. And the idea is to really
be practical, and to bring some practical solutions to the problems we are facing. However, the basis of everything we do is Islam. And so we need to look at the Islamic position in terms of dealing with this in order to understand where we are at. And then to look at where we are going.
I want to quote from some of the texts of a great Islamic scholar Sheikh Yusuf al Qaradawi Rahim Allah, and he has a textual, halal and haram in Islam, which I consider to be one of the more balanced books dealing with different aspects of Islamic jurisprudence. So it's different aspects of life that he is dealing with, and trying to bring
a balance. So this is the important thing about the scholar. And I wanted to quote from him instead of just freewheeling I wanted to use, you know what he's saying as a basis, so that we can begin to develop a framework
and how we're looking at male and female relationships, sexuality within Islam.
And so, the Shambhala
talked about first creation, like what is the purpose of creation, and humanity's creation. And he basically said, and this is only one section of what he said, that Allah subhanaw taala Glory be to Him, created men or humanity as his advice agent. So if I say agent means like, representative, so it's the representative of God on earth, in order that he might populate and rule it. So literally, part of the reason why we're here is to rule the earth, because we are given an advantage over other creations. That he said obviously, this purpose cannot be realized, unless the human species perpetuates itself, living, thriving, cultivating, manufacturing, building and worshiping it's
greater. Accordingly, the creator has placed certain appetites and impulses in men, meaning humanity, so that he is impelled towards the various activities, which guarantee the survival of the species. So in other words, looking at ourselves in a realistic way.
We, there's a spiritual side, to us, we have an uncle, we have intelligence, we have a soul, but there is also a physical side. And so that physical side that we have, where you have literally have desires, I use the term appetite, but it means you are desirous of certain things. And these desires you will see also in other forms of creation, you will see them in the animal world, in the insect world.
These desires are set up in order to help us to survive. So it moves us towards survival.
And among the appetites, which an individual must satisfy, for his personal survival is that a food and drink?
Okay, so naturally, we have thirst, thirst comes on us, hunger comes. And that's something that comes to us naturally, in order to not just enjoy the types of food, but it's literally to survive. Because without liquids, you know, without sustenance, our bodies cannot survive in the world. The sexual appetite, however, is for the purpose of the survival of the species. So sex is satisfaction and fulfillment. And so the desire for sexuality between male and female
is really, we believe the basis of it is survival. So the basis of this desire is procreation. In other words, to have children and to sustain
you know, the human race, that's the basis of sexuality, but Allah subhanaw taala in His mercy, He has also put a type of satisfaction in this and even a type of fulfillment.
So, these are all involved, but this is actually part of the drive
the drive of sexuality, of course, the greatest survive the greatest drive that we have is survival.
So that that is what will make everything change if your life is in danger, to survive, literally
changes everything. Okay? So and then there's other different desires. So, we're looking at the idea of sexuality. So, again, I want to set a framework for this and then we can open up the floor for general discussions concerning this, but he said that the the responses to second response to sexuality, so human beings
are in three basic camps and this could be extended, but for purposes of our discussion, three basic camps, the first approach is to satisfy one sexual need freely with whomever is available, and whatever one pleases without any restraint of religion, morality or customer.
Okay, so this is the first approach.
This is the position of the advocates of free sex for they do not believe in any religion.
Okay, this philosophy reduces
The human being to the status of an animal and if practice universally would result in the destruction of the family, his family structure and of all society. So, this is the work words of check Use of Dawie right bringing the the approaches to sexuality. So the first is unrestricted. So, that is what you could call like hedonism
that approach and I put a little hot here you know, Valentine's Day, okay, so valentine's day this is something which is from ancient society, because this is this is the symbol of Ishtar, who was also known as Aphrodite to the Greeks and as Venus
to the Romans was the goddess of love.
And it's true that concept that they understood their relationships and Aphrodite had
a little agent who carried out you know, her wishes. His name was Arrows.
Arrows, the Romans called him Cupid, you probably heard of Cupid before. Okay, so but arrow says an important name, which comes even in a language. And that's what you get erotica.
So when you say something is erotic, okay, that means it's sensual to you. So it is bringing you on to desire for sexuality. It's erotic. So that comes from arrows. Okay, who is according to the Greek understanding, and the people of the ancient times, is a servant of Aphrodite or Venus in Iraq, and in Lebanon and Syria and other places you she was known as Ishtar
And it's interesting because it
has come into now, you know, in the last few years, this has become a powerful force in our society.
And I can recall,
some years back, and it's not that long ago, where
the the erotica, even in this society was restricted to a certain extent,
in television, in the movies and in society itself. And then they had what is called, it was in the 60s, they call it some people call it the sexual revolution.
So this sexual revolution, there were certain
aspects of life that changed people's relationship. One of them was birth control pills.
Okay, so birth control pills would mean that people could have relations, and there'd be no danger, basically, of having children. Okay.
clothing and clothing, there was spandex, right spandex, you know, type of clothing.
And so relationship started to change radically.
Okay, and this got deeper and more advanced and more advanced to reach even in the past 10 years. It has gone almost out of control.
And this is where Ishtar, actually many people believe is coming to the surface. And you know, that's surprising because in Mesopotamia,
each stars time of the year, you know, we have different seasons. And the people who follow the sun,
look at the different seasons to base their religions. So this is now Winter Solstice. And when it goes to December 21, that is the shortest day of the year. That darkness right, in the northern countries. So this is the winter solstice. And it is in this time that they used to put out fires and lights and they believe that the sun god, you know what had had vanished. And they wanted to they made sacrifices. And so these are the pagan ceremonies that brought about the holiday known as Christmas. Right? And I'm not going to go into it. If any of you want to know that, say holiday myths and go into YouTube. Look for my name. You can get a lecture on it. If you want to book. You
can go to my website, I came quick.com And you get a book, holiday mitts the origin of Christmas. Okay, the spring Solstice.
That is the time of the conquest of light over darkness. It's spring.
So the winter is gone.
And flowers start coming back. And so this is the time of astray or Easter.
And that is the Easter ceremonies. Right? And when you say the word Easter, which is a Christian holiday, what is the first thing that comes in your mind when I say the word Easter?
Kate, okay, that's different. Well, what else? What else comes in your mind? So I say the word Easter.
Okay, resurrection, which is a good Christian answer. Right? But I'm saying for most people, if you say Easter, what's the first thing that comes in your mind? Bunny rabbits. It's Easter eggs, right? These are fertility symbols. This is a fertility cult of the spring. Because that's when life is coming back. Right? Fertility and Christianity joined the fertility cults. Right. So you had the resurrection of Christ.
Right. Life after Death. Just like spring is life after death in the northern season, okay, summer solstice
that's around June 21. A, these are right with a height where you have the the longest days of the year. Okay, the heat in the northern countries. So this was the time of each star. This is the time of Venus and Aphrodite. And they used to have special ceremonies in June especially. It became a special month for for the people of this heightened erotica sexuality. And you'll be surprised to know the symbol of Ishtar.
You know what the symbol of Ishtar was the rainbow.
I'm not making this up. That was ich TOS symbol rainbow.
So what we're seeing happen now is the return of this. And this erotica, Ishtar concept of society is becoming predominant on people's thinking now, and it is going out of control within our society itself. Okay, so that's one side of this approach to sexuality, the extreme erotica and hedonism. Okay, the other approach to sexuality according to use of Canada, we Rahim Allah, and it is a way of, you know, an Islamic way of looking at it. And that is his words, I'm quoting him, so it's not just me talking. He said, The second approach is to suppress and to try to annihilate the sexual drive. This approach is advocated by aesthetic schools and other worldly philosophies. This approach
leads towards monasticism and escape from the world, such as advocacy of suppression of a natural appetite, or rather annihilation of its functioning is contrary to Allah's plan and purpose and is in conflict with the cause of the natural order, which requires the use of this appetite for the continuation of life.
Okay, so one side, this is depression now.
And that is the group's you see it in some extreme religions, where it leads to monk ism, it leads to celibacy.
Okay, and you even had a group in Christianity called Opus Daya.
And this is a group of Christian zealots. And they were so extreme that if the man looked at a woman
in the wrong way, he would go home and he would get he would whip himself. So give himself 20 lashes, because he looked at a woman in the wrong way. And that's suppressing something which is natural thing.
It's a natural thing, but they suppress it. And the Prophet Prophet Muhammad Sal Salam said, rapa Nia Phyllis, that there is no monk ism in Islam,
not celibacy. This is not the Islamic way. Okay. So you got the two extremes now. All right. Now, the Islamic approach, and this is what use of Qaradawi. Again, in his approach is saying the third approach is to regulate the satisfaction of this urge, allowing it to operate within certain limits, neither suppressing nor giving it free rein. This is the standard of revealed religions, which have instituted marriage and prohibited fornication and adultery. In particular Islam. dually recognizes the role of the sexual drive facilitates is satisfaction through lawful marriage, and just as it strictly prohibits sex outside of marriage.
which, even what is conducive to it? It also prohibits celibacy and the shunning of women, okay, so I'm just putting this as a basis, right? So we have a scholarly basis for the discussions that we want to have in this discussion of marriage and Islam, of gender relations in Islam. So the third approach, which is the Islamic approach, is to fulfill sexuality within limits. And the limits that came through revealed religions is marriage. So, it is a restricted relationship, but it is not suppression.
It is not suppression, okay. And Islam, all of the great religions, but Islam, of all the religions still because we still have our sources, strictly forbids fornication and adultery. It is it is a serious thing. And for the new Muslims here, you will see we put great emphasis on not falling into fornication and adultery. And
the reason of this is Allah subhanaw taala tells us in the Quran itself, well, that Takara Zina in the hookah, he should turn to us as Allah, Allah said, do not come close to fornication and adultery, because it is an abomination. And it will destroy everything in your life. It'll destroy everything. So Islam took us a strong stance when it comes to fornication and adultery. And it scholars looked at this because, you know, with many others sins, it says, Well, I talk to them enough so that you have Ramallah will level up, do not kill people.
Right Do not
lie. You know, generally it says do not do this sin. That's how the Quran cups here it said, Don't come near it. See the difference in the two? It didn't say don't do it. They say don't come near it.
Okay, so which is an added emphasis on this, and which is found within Islamic societies. So that is really the basic basis of our relationships, the general attitude that we have to put it in our language, you know, Muslims are not suppressing sexuality between individuals. On the contrary, Prophet Muhammad peace be upon me said, get married, multiply, because we will be the largest nation of the revealed religions on the Day of Judgment. So Muslims generally have large families. So this is not monk ism. This is not Opus Di. Right. But it is a healthy natural relationship. Okay, so this is the basis of, you know, how we are, you know, functioning within Islam. Okay, so I want to ask
before, as we go on, I want to open up the floor. If there's any questions concerning these approaches to sexuality before we start looking at some other aspects within the subject. This is a big subject, by the way, you can take a whole semester, a whole year to cover but I'm trying to concentrate questions. Yeah.
You mentioned how security systems. Yeah.
How does someone go about attaining forgiveness?
Yeah, I mean, this is an advanced question. Of course, there is Toba. There is repentance is based on repentance. And we have to study the whole issue of repentance itself, in terms of you know, what is needed in that, in terms of punishments within Islam, the general who do or the punishments do not. They don't apply except in an Islamic state, in an area where Islam is established, and there are courts and as judges, so the Hadith do not apply. In general, but Toba which is repentance applies and Allah says in the Quran, in the La Jolla, Luba Jamia, Allah forgives all sets so all sins can be forgiven. Okay. Any other general questions concerning the approaches to sexuality?
now, the challenge that we are facing is the society we're living in today.
Okay, and this is an extreme society, where the hedonism
He starts law, the rainbow society has taken over everything.
And it's just invading all aspects of life. And because we are heavily influenced by social media, then we are bombarded with images. And it has changed people's minds and the way that we approach each other. So now we're trying to practice Islam. But yet we're in a society that seems to be going in the other direction.
I want to give an example.
Some years ago, I was invited to do a talk in New York. It was a big challenge with another Imam, Imam Suraj. Raj. Maybe some of you might have heard of him before. So Imam Suraj. And I had to do this talk. And you know what the title was dating in Islam.
Okay, so this is confrontation talk, right? New York City, dating at Islam.
And the way he approached it Zawada here, very interesting way that he began his talk. And he said that some years ago, our group of brothers and sisters went for a weekend in the forest and wood to get away from the city. So they went to the state called Vermont, some of you may have heard from, it's a very foresty type of, you know, state. And so they went there and they were outside and they were drinking the natural water, they have mineral springs. So when they came to the mineral water, and they drank the mineral water, many of the brother and sister spit it out.
They said, this water tastes strange.
Because they were so used to drinking polluted water.
polluted water from the Hudson River, there's so when they got spring water, it tasted terrible. Because they're so used to polluted water. So when you approach the Islamic concept of relationships, it's almost like drinking that mineral water, right? It seems so strange, based upon what we're used to hearing and seeing around us, it takes time to get used to drink and mineral water. Right. And really, Islam is is a, a way of life. It's a society. And that's part of our challenge. That you know, Islam as a society, we have families, we have towns, villages, so we have a society and infrastructure around us. And that infrastructure.
It reinforces Islamic values.
So when you have a society that reinforces your values, then it's normal. It's like everybody's drinking mineral water. So it's normal, right? When somebody comes with polluted water, that would taste strange to everybody. You see the difference? But we're in the middle of this polluted lake.
Okay, so we have to discuss it, we need to be open now. Don't hold back and try to be you know, good Muslims, whatever, be honest. Right? That's the purpose of this session, to be as honest as possible.
And so the question was dating in Islam.
Okay, my response to this. And similar to Imam Suraj, is the title, the title is wrong.
There is no dating in Islam.
So you got to change the title. Okay, because when you say a date
in this society, and I don't know if it's changed, right, you have to correct me, because I'm not up with some of these recent things that's been going on, right.
But coming from my time, and that's not far away. 80s 90s, you know, whatever. It's not that far away.
When a person when a male and fi when they go on a date. Right? It is possible in this society, on the date, that they can do everything that a married couple does.
There's no real like limits in the society doesn't always happen. But there's no real limits when I was coming up. And it's not I'm not 100 years old. You know what I'm trying to say? Because time has changed so rapidly, you won't believe this. Even from the 90s. Right? How times have changed.
But even from back in the 70s and 80s to a certain extent, when people the average people in Canada uses as an example, go out on a date, that generally the parents of the girl need to know when she's coming home.
Okay, this is not Muslims. They need to know when she's coming home.
Right. And sometimes they might even want to meet the boy who's taken us somewhere.
Okay, like there were limits, right. And even on television itself, there was a move. There was a television program when I was growing up. It was called I Love Lucy. So this is going to be our way back before you are. And the I Love Lucy according to the standards in Hollywood,
Lucy and her husband could not be shown on television, sleeping in the same bed.
It was against the rules. So anytime nighttime came, it's a sitcom, right? So so nighttime comes right? So whenever it is Lucy's in the bed and her husband's in the bed. They could not show them together in the same bed. Because that's breaking morality standards within the Judeo Christian society that still was dominated in America right? At the time.
If you look now,
how would it after the sexual revolution. Now what is shown on the television,
it is like what we used to call X X X rated movies.
It's a normal movie.
Even the dress of people, especially with women's dress, especially. And I say this with all respect to the society. But I'm going to be straightforward. That many of the styles that women are wearing in society a few decades ago would be prostitutes. It would literally be what we call street women who are wearing these type things with high yields and painted up. And what those are street walkers, prostitutes, but it's become normal dress. Okay, because of Ishtar, because of this hedonistic society, and the changes that we have got the Islamic position
is that an error I'm going to just give you give you the basis of the position. Basically, in our relationships, we first have what is called Central Outre. And that means that we need to cover our private paths. Okay, and the private parts for a woman basically are supposed to be everything, you know, except the face and the hands should actually be covered.
Okay, how you cover it will vary from society to society. There's no set dress, black clothing is not
something you have to wear within Islam. It is more of a cultural thing of the Arabs. But it is not what you have to wear. You know, when you're, you know, covering up, the idea is that the clothing is supposed to be not tight, and not see through. Right. And it is not bright colors. Right. And it's not making noise and everything like that. Right and also not wearing perfume. That is like loud perfume. You know what I mean by loud. So when she walks by, or he walks by he walks by everybody smelling her.
That's loud. That's what I mean by loud. I lived in Saudi Arabia in the 70s that you would not believe this. I'm a person I came from the States, right. And I have seen everything. I accepted Islam at 20.
And I lived in Saudi Arabia. And at that time, the women covered everything. And they will like three sets of veil
over as they walked. And one woman used to walk down the street in this bedroom, an area that I lived. And she would wear bangles that made noise.
And she would wear heavy perfume. And she walked down the street.
And the bad the bad boys would stand on the corner. And they would be looking as she walked by looking at her ankles, trying to get a look at her ankles right. Now, this is a joke for me coming out of America. Right? But they were like we say checking out her ankles, right.
But she was her intention
was almost the same as somebody today who's looking dressing like a prostitute in a corner. It was to catch their attention. Right? But she did it within the framework of that society itself. Okay, so even when you cover yourself, you can still do wrong. I've given you the example. So just because you have a lot of clothes on doesn't mean if your modest.
Modesty begins within.
It's your modest how you carry yourself and we have lowering the gaze for male and female. Now, dress in Islam is not only for women. Now that's something that many Muslim men do not understand. Dress is also for Muslim men. Muslim men are not supposed to be weird.
wearing, tight see through clothing, the outer is from above the navel to below the knee. That's the part that has to be covered on a man. But the Sunnah for a man to be covering should also be covering over their chest area, you know as well in the cylinder, and the clothing of a man should be not see through and not tight, right and not have loud, loud colors, and things like that. So men are supposed to be covering and really the most of the man is supposed to distinguish themselves in their dress. If you go if you really look at Islamic society, you will see every country where Islam when the Muslim men distinguished themselves, because the prophets al salam said, mentorship bahagi
for whom you know, whoever appears like a tribe is one of them.
Okay, so you should be able to look at a Muslim man.
He's really look at us and say that's a Muslim.
Before he tells you what his name is, that's what actually supposed to be.
Now, we are living in a society like we're living in, but that's what a man is supposed to be. A Muslim man is supposed to distinguish himself. And that's really, for him is actually a benefit. And I was when I came into Islam here, I was very serious about it. And I would wear Muslim clothes, you know, on the subway, you know, in the TTC, you know, and actually, that was a blessing too. Because if there was a woman who was up to no good, right, and then she looked at me, right? She said, No, this is Ayatollah Khomeini or something like this, you know, like, what is this? Right?
And she looked at someone else, right? She wouldn't look at me, right? Because of how I looked. If I was cool, my hair slicked back and, you know, whatever, then she Ah,
okay, that's a possibility. So your dress informs people about your intentions.
Even for men, too. And I say this, I'm emphasizing this point, because we're not going to put everything on sexuality on women. That is a mistake.
So lowering the gaze, especially on behalf of the men, is
we're supposed to lowercase which means that you're not supposed to be staring people down
the first look.
And it's generally the men who have the problem with their eyes. Especially in the summer season. Now the call comes, we can relax to a certain extent, because people have to cover up. But when the warm season comes, it's a test on men.
And so the Prophet SAW Selim said, if you look at somebody, the first gaze is for Allah. That's not your fault. So if you look, that's for Allah. But then when you look back the second time, that's for shaytaan. That's for the devil. See the two between the two gazes? Right, you look the first time, okay? But you look the second time, that's the shaytaan. And you can't try to trick Allah. There was some of these people coming out of East Coast of America. They wanted to be smart guys, and they think so what they would do is they would when they look the first time they hold it,
you understand what I'm what he's doing. He holds the first look, right? That's for a law right? You can't fool Allah His intention was wrong.
His intention was wrong.
Okay. So lower the gaze. Cover yourself.
Basic modesty, that is the basic within Islamic society. At the same time, we are a natural people. We do get married, there is attraction, and is nothing wrong with attraction. Okay, you can be attracted to somebody. But the challenge is how do you fulfill your attract your attraction? That's our challenge. Because within hedonistic society within this society, you fulfill it, like the animals do. Right? They see somebody and they go for it.
Okay, when an Islamic Society No,
there's limits. And there's ways that you can, you know, go about, you're getting that, again, our challenge is we are we are a society. We're like a village. So if you live within a society, you'll be naturally walking down the street, you have neighbors, you'll see each other.
Your families will will know each other. You might get a job and you see somebody in the job, they might be school. Somebody's there in the school so your attraction can come. You might even have conversations.
Okay, it's nothing wrong with
basic conversations, okay, but it is the next level, the level of the socialization where the desires come in, that is where the limits come. So basically,
for this part to make a long story short,
we have what is called
controlled, going out. I don't want to use the word date because data's got too many negative consultations, understandings, connotations, right? And chaperone date, you know, it gets too much in this Christian type of thing we're not talking about, what we're saying is, is that it is permissible, if there is some retraction,
you know, then the families, the family of the girl especially knows that
And they will say no,
and then they can, they can come together, and they can go out somewhere in you know, and do things you know, together. But the only thing they are not allowed to do is what is called halwa. And that is to be alone.
Right for the to be alone. The promises seldom said, if a male and a female are alone, who are not in the same immediate family, then the third party with them is the devil.
Okay, the halwa.
That is what that is, what is this difference? Okay, it's okay, you can turn it off. Now. It's so the call what is what is different?
You know, in terms of going about, and then so this is where the intentions, you know, come about, and then
they talk to each other. I mean, we have, I'll open up the floor. Before I go into some practical ways, you know, that we have understood, but up until now, the floor is open for any questions or understandings that anybody has. floor is open. Go ahead.
that you don't specifically have like, the system doesn't have like a map on the ground, but you're in a open place, is that considered allowed or not allowed? Right? The Mahara means like a family member, right. That's what that means.
Technically speaking, it is allowed when it's when there's a lot of people there. However, some people would say, even though sometimes you're in a crowd, or you're in a big place, you can go off in a corner, and everybody's going about their own business, right? You know, so many people would still say it's better to have somebody there, but they don't have to be immediately writing sitting next to you that they might be on the other side of the room or, you know, whatever. But technically speaking, it could be okay, because it's not alone.
Okay, of course, intentions are important. And we have to try our best we're not going to be 100%. But we have to try our best there. Okay, floors open for any other general questions.
dates, start video calls, video call dates, because it's what I was, though. Yeah. So video call dates would be the same. There, they should not actually be alone.
Because really, there's a lot of things can happen in these video calls. As we know, right? There's a lot of people fall down. So the video would be the same.
You know, the video calls as well.
Like, it says that when there is one man, every other woman then there is the third is what about if we take the Uber drivers male, and then you are the female? Or you're going somewhere? Yeah, I mean, take to take an Uber or a cab or something like that. That is different in in a sense of means reels to overly strict societies might not even want that. But I'm saying in this society, there's nothing wrong because the intention is you're just taking a cap. This is when you're going out with somebody. You know what I mean? By going out? Let's go to a movie. Let's go to risk convention together, whatever. Let's do some people going out. Right? That's what it means. Let's go for
coffee. That's not an Uber driver.
Okay, floors open. What is the purpose of the two being together in public is for educating themselves and themselves in Islam. So like, someone could teach me Arabic. And that's right. Yeah, I mean, the intention could be good, but then at the same time, we have to deal with reality of our desires. Because you know, and I'm going to be a little graphic about this, right? The sisters there with the brother, and she's teaching him Arabic. And he's sitting there looking at her right. And she said, I lift ba TA, you think he's thinking about lift BA?
I mean, let's do
Right. But I'm saying okay, maybe he's not. But I mean,
if you don't feel something, there's something wrong with you, man.
If you don't, right,
so, so really, I mean,
it wouldn't, that wouldn't supersede, you know, that idea of the halwa. It still should not be. Because our desires are so tricky.
And it can come the shaytaan can come to you in so many different ways that things that you never thought of, can actually come. So to avoid that. Remember what the verse says, We'll talk Rob Zilla, Don't come close to it. Not don't do it.
Don't come close to it be safe. Because it's going to ruin everything. It's going to ruin your body can ruin your family relationships. It can ruin your society. So just stay away from it. And be safe.
Yeah. So in terms of lowering the gaze, is there a distinction between like, you're walking on the street and you see somebody, you lower your gaze versus you're talking to somebody getting to them for the purposes of marriage, and you're trying to figure out, am I attracted to this person? To the point where I want to marry them? You have to? I would think, look at them a little bit more. Is there a distinction there? And how we have to? Yes, I mean, do you know that there are some things like for instance, on the job, or at school, or something like this, you know, especially within the society we're living in, okay, that, you know, you will talk to people, but you talk to people in
the job about business, right? So the so the person's female on the job, you know, asking you, you know, up, do you know, can you do this, you know, assignment, yes, I can do this assignment, you know, it's your job, right. So, you so you, you look at them, you don't stare, right. But But you look at them, you get the assignment, you do the assignment. Okay. If you finish the job, and you say, Well, Sally, what are you doing tonight? That's another conversation, right? Business is business. And social life is social life. You know, and sometimes when people come from other societies, they do strange things. I was doing a program in is $1 program. And we were in Miami,
Florida. And you know, if you've been in Miami, right? Close to Miami Beach, or this university is people walk around in bikinis, right? So we're doing a Dawa program trying to bring
non Muslims to the program. Right. So we said, Okay, we'll have a section. Brothers can be their sisters, but we'll have a neutral section. We have non Muslims can come and sit, you can't force them to be in separate disavow program. Right. One of the brothers, you know, I don't want to say it was from Saudi Arabia. Right? He's an extremist, right? He said, No, all the women, they must be way in the back cover it.
So we put this a dowel program and he wanted a veil there.
I said, Okay. Why? He said, because it's a fitna. It's a trial and a test. We can't do this. I said, Brother, do you go to the University of Miami? Yes. Do you have women in your class?
Yes. Is some of your teachers female? Yes.
What do you do it? Like what do you do in the class? That's a double standard. You can be in the classes and say, to you know, listen, looking at your teacher, trading homework, you know, with Sally and Jane.
But you can't have a doubt. See? So, you know, it's this is not an easy, you know, area, especially for people who come out of
societies that are more restricted. And then in this society, this this is not easy. Right, but we have to be open minded in the sense to try to try to deal with the situation.
Okay, floor is open. Any questions online? Does anybody have floor is open for any other questions?
yeah, okay, well now,
in order to deal with the issue,
because the problem we're facing now, is it when we start practicing Islam, right, then there's a natural separation of male and female.
But the point is, how do you get married?
I was I gave a lecture in Melbourne, Australia.
And it was a big one. Right? There was a lot of people came out. And after the lecture, there was a group of sisters, lot of sisters, maybe 200 of them. And they said we need to
ask you a question. I said, Okay. So I went to the sisters section. And they said, we have many single sisters, where are the brothers?
Like, we don't have any brothers to get married? I seem strange to because there was a lot of people in the lecture, right?
And I said, Well, I'll talk to the leadership. The next night, I did a program with the brothers. And a lot of brothers came out. And then they said, We have a question, where are the sisters?
Like, we need to get married, right? So I said, Wait a minute, you have a large body of male and female both want to get married.
But there's no way for them to come together. That's the challenge. Big challenge in our community. And the communities that have tried to stifle it themselves, and not allow any type of
innovations that come I mean, positive innovations, using technology or whatever it is, their children, and young people ended up committing fornication and adultery and all kinds of strange things happened within their societies, I witnessed this myself.
So there has to be a way for us to use the technology. But that's not easy.
On one occasion,
in UK, there was a brother,
organized brother, he was from Bangladesh, real activist brother,
and then a friend of mine. So he said, we found that there are many new Muslims who have no way to get married.
Every tribe has got their own people, right? So they got their cousins and their friends and whatever. But to know Muslims, like who do they have? How can you meet somebody in a halal way? How, so we organize the big gathering. And he asked me, we need someone to be the IMA. This was in London. So they gather together a group of say about 60 people or so.
I gave a talk first that said, there's nothing to be ashamed of in religion. Law higher 15. Okay, so you can speak out, we're in a group together.
So then we divided the groups into sections, and you had
six sisters and six brothers. Okay, the sequel, say, whatever is a number, say 10 Brothers, 10 Sisters, any of these groups, six groups. So each person has got a number C to D seven. And so the brothers and sisters sit together. Okay, there's people out there. And we ask a question, if there is a difference of opinion in marriage. How would you solve this? So the brothers begin? So Ali said, I am Ali and I came from Mombasa in Kenya, and I'm studying at the University of London. And if I had my choice, I would take consultation with my wife, sisters are looking at it.
Okay, they're all the brothers answer the question, then the sisters answer the question. Okay. And the brothers are looking at them.
Okay, then after a period of time, we say switch. So the brothers switch to the next circle. And it goes around until everybody has seen everybody.
And we had the pictures of the brothers, especially on the wall with the with the numbers, you know, and that thing, and
they were allowed, especially sometimes the system, especially the brothers, in this case, you'll be more aggressive. They say I'm interested in sister b two.
Or she may be interested in brother D seven brothers faces and things that is sisters are there.
Okay, so now she gets a message. Brother B two is interested in you.
So they get a chance she goes to the wall and looks at the picture.
Okay, that's brother b two. And she says, No way.
I'm not interested in it.
Okay. And it keeps going on until out of the group. There were people interested in each other.
So we had another room, we had a table and two chairs. And then you sit down and you talk.
And you have people who are there.
Supervise supervising and you sit down you talk some little tea or whatever and, and then after a period of time, some of the people who had this, they say okay, we're interested. So when they were interested, now our job ended and it goes to the Wali, the family of the girl
so the family of the girl is informed.
But so that was a halal way to meet somebody. You see you
He's trying to do something he's trying to innovate. And another way.
Okay, so she might earlier question was in this context. So now you're, like you said the sisters answering the question and all those others are looking at her, because they're looking to see if they want this person to be their spouse, is that looking different from the looking where you're supposed to lower your gaze, it's not because they shouldn't be staring.
So the look is just that they should be looking away most of the time. But they can look to see, you know, the principal not staring them down.
Now, in terms of the apps, over the over the years, things have developed, there have been websites, now it's turning into apps, you even had conventions, like the risk convention that's coming up today still have the matrimonial thing
isn't the convention is the big one in Chicago, they have the matrimonial thing.
But some of these things got out of control.
You know, where people just go in there hunting down men, hunting down women,
they got out of control. But I was informed that there are certain apps
were the people who control it, they take care of what they're doing. So, in other words, when you join that, you have to fill out an application. So you have to say who you are, what your background is, what your interests are, you ask certain questions, right, you supply a photo, you know, sometimes, you know, there may even have to be somebody who sees you, you know, whatever,
they take time to investigate,
you know, and then the sisters also conjoined that, you know, and they try to pair you up as closely as possible.
So, the person sees, you may be interested in one of these, okay, so then they can choose from that. And, you know, they, they try to be personal, as much as possible with the people to try to protect, but once any decision is made before any going out happens, then the family of the girl has to know.
They have to know.
in the marriage process, because the man's husband, sorry, does the man's family have to be involved? Yes, generally speaking, the man's family should be involved. Definitely.
The man's family because when you're getting married, you're marrying somebody's family. In Islam, right? You're not just marrying that person you think you are. But there's you got a mother in law there too. Right? You know, and you got a family and you have traditions and you have a lifestyle. So it's on both sides. Okay. And so the man's family, you know, is involved.
And, you know, the promises of them said there's suitability. Suitability is a whole nother area,
that there's certain questions that you need to ask, but the family generally is involved in Islamic society, the family would come forward, somebody from the family would come with the, with the young man, to the, to the family, to the family of the girl.
So they would cause the two families coming together, if there is no family, and that's the case where there was no Muslims, right? That's the case we were dealing with, because their family would not be involved. Okay, then there would be what Lee would be somebody, a senior person in the community could act as a representative also. So the family should be involved. But it's not the same as the girl because in the girls case, her father has rights over her in terms of blocking the marriage.
Because he's heard what he
whereas in the case of the man, the family can culturally block it, but it's not the same strength. You know, it's because more protection of the woman because, because because, because from the woman comes to children and the whole society, so these protections gotta be there. So the special protection, that the sister doesn't fall into confusion.
And we are facing, you know, some real challenges today because of fake news, and artificial intelligence. You know, you got to watch out even these apps and all these things that are going on. You don't even know what you're talking to. Right. You could be talking to a machine
so there's a lot of challenges inside of this. But there have been some successful groups you know that are they I don't know if Buddha Muhammad you know, we don't Buddha Muhammad. Many of you may know him. He's a spoken artist.
He was an all I have to ask him is I haven't spoken to him about this in a while he was running, you know, one of these matrimonials like it was fairly successful one. So there are some people, I don't know, if you if we're not at the point where we're recommending this, but there may be some that could be recommended. Okay. But there's got to be ways of doing this to come together. Okay, any questions online.
In New York City, if you had a small communities, we have large communities. But if you if we were a small community, where everybody in the community sort of knows each other.
And in that case, there was one community where the Imam and his wife, they knew everybody in the community. And so they put out the word and they said, anybody who's interested in another Muslim, you know, come to my office. So all the ones that were interested, he had a long table, and he let them all sit there and talk. And him and his wife were there. But that is a community. There's another community in New York, that was very creative. And they developed a tea room. It's like a coffee tea room. So it's a place where you could go on Friday night, right? And you could go there and drink coffee and drink tea and have halal food, and this interaction with Muslims. And it is
supervised. So therefore, you could be going to a place and, you know, run into somebody. Okay, so they were trying to be as creative as possible. And really, our community has to try to be as creative in this area.
It's scary for a lot of people. And so in some communities, they bury their heads in the sand. So it doesn't is no problem, no problem. But it is a problem.
Especially now, in the rainbow time. It's major problem. This Gen X, you know, whatever coming up now, this is big, big time.
So there has to be creative solutions to this. Okay.
floor is open for any idea
was to do a potluck. Er
20 minutes solutions. Is everybody okay to come back?
Yeah. So if anybody wants to come back for the potluck at the at the Isha, then you know, you can? Yeah, it can be can be for everybody.
Yeah, it can be, you know, for everybody.
Yeah, but but some you can, you know, I mean, we still will have, you know, areas that we eaten. But definitely, it's possible, because this is the last class for the semester, because it closes down all the classes close.
Right. So this will be the last class for a while. We'll let you know when we begin. But anyhow, that's the end, we still have time for more questions than anybody you may have in this area.
seen that in terms of like, proposing marriage or finding a suitable person?
For the female side, the father would be involved? What if there's no father figure?
Who would take on that? Right? It's very good question.
The Prophet SAW salem said assault on walima and latterly Allah, that the assault on the authority in the Muslim community will be the Wali meaning the guardian of anybody who doesn't have a guardian. So in our community, they're supposed to be Imams and senior people in the community, who will be who will become a wali or another worker were killed, that sort of a representative, you know, for somebody who needs a representative. So it has to be from the community itself. See, Muslims were supposed to have more of a relationship than just slough. Alaikum Alaikum, salaam, I'll see you next week. Who is supposed to be actually like a family, right? That's what it's supposed to
be. And this is one of the areas it's challenged to leadership.
But they have to realize this is not a business, right? This is a family, it's a community. So there has to be a way you know, of doing this and right now, like hearing it, there are certain Imams and leaders here who would have to bear the responsibility of being like a waqia representative for somebody who needed a representative. That's how I would have to go
first of all, to like your uncle, or like your your dad's or, yeah, so then it could be your dad, your father, you know, the grandfather, Uncle, you know, whatever it could be, you know, would go like that to be well, in some cases, if there's no parents and might even be the brothers. You know, somebody
The male member in the family, you know, can be a spokesman and representative for the family, you to intercede in that case, otherwise, it's got to be somebody who's respected in the community to help, Betsy, the normalcy this is a challenge. It's that's why every Masjid should have, like a no Muslim corner. That's why we redevelop this again, after COVID. Because these are the problems that are going to happen. And we will have to do this, it's going to develop to the point where if this does does come, if this challenge does come, then you know, we will have to do that somebody? Is the door.
Yeah, question. Say you were you were to approach someone
you know, there will be comfort?
What's a good way to keep that interaction? Make sure that
sort of person say it again, the person approaches somebody for marriage? Yeah. And you want to get the number or get into contact with them. But you don't have that contact information already.
That process of getting like, can you even speak to them? Like, yeah, so it's possible to get it if the demand you can get it from from the woman? So like, what's your what is, you know, if if somebody you know, is it, say, for instance, I'll just give an example here in school or something like this, whatever, you know, and they did trading homework or whatever, and he's feeling something. Right, and she's feeling something, he should say to her, okay, here, he's got to be honest, and say I'm interested, you know, if she's interested, usually. So, so he would need to get the phone number, otherworldly. And let the family know. And then start the process of meeting.
And, you know, the other challenge that we face here is cross cultural marriages.
Because in many of the Muslim societies, people are in ethnic groups. But here, all the ethnicities are together.
And some ethnicities are not used to marrying outside of themselves.
Okay, even within their cultures. And I found this out from being Imam and the Jami mosque, even indo Pakistani people in terms of the different types of people, I couldn't believe it, Kashmiri, Punjabi, you know, whatever, and I couldn't believe it, people will deliver want to marry each other.
That's all breaking down with the younger generation.
It's also breaking down, you know, with racial things, tribal things, it's breaking down. So the challenge is for the families, to open up their minds. And that's where the leadership has to be involved to discuss with the family. Sometimes the mom has to be brought in to talk to the to the family man
sometimes has to be
either guidelines for like, how long you should talk to somebody to get to know, to determine a marriage. And part of the reason for that question is, if you're, you know, meeting at some time, especially with people can be like, on their best behavior, you don't really see their true personality sometimes until a difficult situation comes out. Yeah. So
maybe there's more practical question, not really a fake question. How? How would you suggest that a person goes about that process so that they feel that they've gotten to know the person enough that like, I can commit to marrying you? Yeah.
Well, you know, that there's certain aspects, there's a thing called suitability.
And the process of them said, you met when you want to get married, you're married for four things, you marry for beauty, you marry for family, you marry for wealth, and you marry for religion. And then he said, if Mary according to the religion, and you'll be successful, but he named four areas. So if you're marrying somebody, the first part is beauty. And that is where beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. As they say, that's where when you meet somebody, if you're interested in that person, that person is suitable for you, you know, whatever, that's something, that that's a natural thing. But the other thing is wealth, and especially on the part of the men
and that is where the family is supposed to do investigation of the men.
So that needs to be investigation. And normally, what we would say is, you get somebody, you know, if the man is interested, he needs to bring somebody as a witness for his character.
It's not just how sweet he talks and you know, whatever know somebody who the family knows who can connect testify for him,
his character and the first thing to follow the will he should say, if demand comes out, I would like to marry
adata your first is do you have a job?
Like, you gotta know how you're going to provide for this family. He says not make dua and the angels will bring food through the window.
Okay, wait a minute man,
deal with reality, because of this society. So wealth. And that doesn't mean everybody has to have, you know, a house and a car and no, but at least a way of earning wealth and, you know, whatever. The other is nessip. That is your family, your genealogy.
And that is where your tribe or your family we are different in some ways. There's different personalities.
And that is taken into consideration. Of course, degeneration. Now, being in Canada, the new Canadian, you know, society, we're all Canadian, we love the raptors, and, you know, whatever, and we will Canada. But we do come from cultures. And cultures have their nuances. Example, for instance, there are some cultures, I won't mention the country, but there's like country where people are Mountain People.
And mountain people tend to be rough. Because if you're not rough, you're not going to survive on a mountain. Especially desert people, they have to be tough. Other people come from, you know, nice climates, where it's tropical climate, mangoes and 30 degree temperature all year, they tend to be a little bit softer and character. Okay, that's just the character, right. So when a mountain person wants to marry somebody from the seashore, in the tropics, you have to make sure that they can really get along with each other.
Because this is where personality comes in, right. And that has to be investigated. However, we can overcome this, especially with the new joint culture that we have living here. And more understanding of Islam, you can overcome this, but it is taken into consideration
what happened in the past, and I dealt with a lot of marriages before not now I don't get into this area. But in the past, I know some families that they say to their son,
go play with do what you want to do, but you got to marry your cousin.
So you can do whatever you want to do in college. But you marry in your cousin
because that's just the way their their tribe is right. But all that is breaking down now. We used to have arranged marriages, right?
Where the girl's husband is come is flying in. And she never even saw this guy. Physically. She just saw him online.
And maybe in the past that might have worked in different society, but not today. Okay, so this is part of the challenge that we face.
And we'll continue our discussion Inshallah, you know, that there's a lot involved in this. This is a, an if we want to be as creative as possible.
I don't know are they about to call the Adana?
Yeah, so, Pandora's box is open, right. But you know, Inshallah, we tried to be as creative as possible and make dua you know, you know, those of you who can go to the Risk Conference, you know, it is a good conference to go to,
you can meet people you can
you know, there's a lot of really good speakers that will be there. Nice Bazaar, we can get Islamic things. So I do advise you if you can go to the Risk Conference, reviving Islam Congress
there's a dessert dinner for the IT December 25. Also, you can attend the you can attend the dinner, be part of our community here. We also encourage you to be involved in that. And for those online, this will be our last class for a while we'll let you know when the new Muslim corner begins again online, but keep in touch with us. Check on Facebook, Sheikh Abdullah Hakim quick public figure, right. Well, the website Hakeem quick.com
or Instagram it's Abdullah dot quick. There's YouTube Abdullah Hakim quick. I'm not a tick tock man or how do you you know I'm not but I will be making some more things in sha Allah. So have a safe journey home. Salam aleikum wa rahmatullah.
So those who want to