Recognising and Knowing the Scholars
Channel: Wasim Kempson
File Size: 57.30MB
Episode Transcript ©
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I think that when a person wants to start talking about a topic and they say, Oh, I'm not qualified, okay? I'm not from the people of knowledge.
It's not me saying I'm not a doctor.
I'm not qualified as a doctor, okay? And ask you about heart surgery, but I'm going to tell you what you should be doing. Like I'm speaking as a doctor as well. What happened? If you say you're not a doctor, you're not qualified as a doctor in medicine and stocked up don't talk about it. Yeah. So I'm not in Ireland. I don't claim to be in Ireland. Okay, but I'm going to talk about those matters. Anyway.
Come on. What was the point of that? Disclaimer?
Alhamdulillah wa salatu salam ala Rasulillah Assalamu alaykum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh and welcome back to beyond the member podcast. I am your host Muhammad bass aid. And today at hamdulillahi rabbil Alameen. I am joined with a very special guest. I'd like to welcome warm welcome Mashallah. To our chef Wassim Kempson cinematic Mark la vaca Marathi consider moto moto Okay, so, now we've been speaking before you came, you know,
and we want to discuss a topic inshallah Tana And
the topic is
the status of the scholars and also knowledge in our communities. So we'll have a discussion, shall I now go to a couple of questions that I have prepared for yourself, is that okay, okay, that's fine. Jade, so you're capable hands Hamdulillah. So, obviously, was this we talked about this topic, we need to set the foundation inshallah And my first question to that I wanted to put forth to you was, what is the definition of the scholar in Islam?
Smelly Al hamdu lillah wa salatu salam ala Rasulillah bad so
it's a difficult question to answer to be honest with you because we don't have like, as we have a definition of Salah Yeah, a definition of dua, Zakka or Ramadan. And that what feels fulfills that definition of Salah we can call that, you know, that salah? That's prayer? Yeah. As for a scholar, then we don't have you know, even a criteria. I mean, you do have in books of a soul for example, in the books of HD had what makes a much the head, what person or what qualifies a person to be a much the head to make, you know, qualified to give fatwa to make independent rulings? I mean, they do talk about that. Yeah. I mean, is a condition for you to be a memorizer of the book of Allah, that's
about it, or is it sufficient for you to have knowledge of or the idea
so in general terms, it's spoken about that but for our uniform to water down? Yeah, somewhat kind of
a situation what is difficult really to, to define? I mean, even the word chef Island mo learner, Mufti
Sheikh Ali Salam embodies all terms really that no individual asks for. Okay. Yeah. You don't request to be called Iron Chef alone. Yeah, well, I am you know, Mufti full. And I mean, these are titles, or even you know, maybe given to a person who has a position of Mufti. Okay, no problem. This is your title, you deserve that. Or you have a you're an imam of the Masjid. You have that title, your Imam of the Masjid. But other titles is really difficult to.
To qualify, what kind of defines a person of knowledge? I think that over a period of time, people recognize and know who, who all, you know, who are the people of knowledge, through the through actions through what knowledge they have, and how they impart that knowledge with other people. And you know, those terms are given to people in a modern day time, you know, it may go back to what they have, in terms of qualifications, they graduated from a particular place,
this may help you along your way to having the word chef or was does. And, again, it depends who you're partnered with.
If you have a talk that you're attending
and that, you know, some people may be called chef and other person called chef, and there's one little chef and there's one big shift, but everybody just sees them as Chef.
So yeah, it's difficult to define that. But I think that as long as
not, I'm not pretending to say that there isn't one that will, you know, or even saying that there is absolutely no definition. Maybe somebody comes up with a definition, maybe I don't know, but people know who the people of knowledge are, where they've come from there. There are certain things you can look at certain things you can look at, where they've where they've studied, who they studied with the ages, also is an important component now. So these are the kinds of things which maybe it's
a podcast and a half on its own really, if you want to
discuss as to who are who are the is a scholar knows best, you know? Yeah, not exactly fair. I know. And even when you mentioning this thing about the titles, you know, and
and I know what, what you're referring to in terms of big shift, it was mostly when when a group of chicks are together, you know, who's their chef and who's the chef amongst them, you know, you know, so I understand and I think that when it comes to this, you know, subhanAllah
most of the issues maybe come for the Lima, you know, it was just got less knowledge, recognizing, you know, the people have knowledge, you know, and they have their, their status, of course, so, um, Bucha kind of leads to my next question, Mashallah. It's like the Lehman, how does they? How do they recognize a chef? And also not even that, like the status of a chef, and we're like, as you mentioned yet, you know, you have
a speakers coming in, there's one chef who's more senior, sure, than another, but they're all under the Yeah, I think that actually is fair also, to say that, when things like that are prepared and given to the masses, you have to look from their perspective, that maybe they're unable to differentiate between us to what is the hierarchy. But, you know, that is, you know, people are given these titles to
display and to show amongst ourselves, that there are people who know, who have knowledge, okay, not everybody is on the same platform. It's never been like this, you know, the Prophet alayhi wa salam was of the highest of levels in terms of knowledge amongst anyone on Earth. And even amongst the Companions, they would be certain companions, who would have a hike, they would have hierarchy who you would ask, okay, and our, their students, it's difficult, but I'm gonna say that I'm actually I'm talking about bless the generations that they themselves would know who all the scholars and who to refer to, you know, if you look through out the ages, you know, Imam, that'll take you in my
Malika Rahim Allah. If you go to Abu Hanifa Rahim Allah and they would be known, they would be known by the knowledge that they have taken, when they speak, you can see that these people have knowledge, they have understanding of how they've inherited that knowledge. So there is a hierarchy in Islam in terms of knowledge, you know, it's not for anyone to start, you know, jumping on the member and start talking like this. What Islam? We don't have to? Well, actually, we do have that we shouldn't have that. Yeah, in this day and age.
So how does the you know, the the average Muslim in our day and age identify the Ireland scholar, I think that this is a phenomena, which is difficult really to pinpoint as to what is the definition this fulfills, and then the layman will know and identify, right? This is the scholar, it's kind of a process, something happens over a period of time with an individual, they will know who this person is in terms of knowledge, again, at the circles that they are sitting in, where they've come from, how they speak.
You know, when the person many occasion, throughout my personal life, when you meet somebody thinks pattern, that person is so knowledgeable, you know, in comparative terms to yourself, that they're like a chef, but then that person may be, you know, doesn't really know too much, but because you know, so little, you see that person has a great amount of knowledge, then that person sees themselves as I don't really know much as know the basics. And then they may sit with another person with a person who has greater knowledge. And they see themselves as Yeah, so I guess it's a matter of perspective. Yeah, where you are on the, on the ladder, as to who you see as a chef, bottom line
is that the person has a respect for knowledge, and respect for the people of knowledge that does exist in Islam. We can't just do away with that. And, you know, many a time, you know, I like to do the reason I don't do many podcasts, okay, it's kind of diverting away from that is
the way podcasts kind of go, it's almost pre we're in as a rehearsal. It's all pre done. And
it's about the individual. It's about many things, which I think you know, you want to see
some honesty, not to say that not being honest, but you want to see real things which are impact when it gives something to the people they're gonna benefit with. Not just to cause controversy, not to cause confusion. You don't want things like you wouldn't, you know, these kinds of settings are good. But I guess my, my ideal way of looking at is to to,
to benefit people, in a way which you notice a benefit and it's actually giving you new knowledge and new information and allow people to have something that can take away with them. You know, one of them think that when a person wants to start talking about a topic and they say, Oh, I'm not qualified, okay. I
Not from the people of knowledge.
Just like me saying, I'm not a doctor.
I'm not qualified as a doctor, okay, and ask you about heart surgery. But I'm going to tell you what you should be doing. Like I'm speaking as a doctor as well, what happened? You see, you're not a doctor, you're not qualified as a doctor in medicine or just don't don't don't talk about it. Yeah. So I'm not in Ireland. I don't claim to be in Ireland. Okay. But I'm going to talk about those matters. Anyway.
Come on, what was the point of that? Disclaimer?
Disclaimer, it's a disclaimer in desire that you're not from people knowledge, keep quiet, don't talk about things that don't concern you, that you are
talking about historical events. And, you know, people were, you know, slaughtered for this reason, and this person was leading this, you know, movement and things like that. I'm not qualified to talk about these things, by the way. Okay. But I'm going to do it. I'm going to talk about it anyway. Yeah.
yeah, you know, I'm gonna say, I've lost myself really? No, no, it's alright, um, we'll pick up where we left off each other. And I want to talk about what you just said about the average Muslim, you know, I'm from what I identify the island. Yeah, and what you're saying is, you know, from what I'm getting, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, it's if you as a Muslim, or not in some capacity, learning, and gaining knowledge, then you will find it hard to recognize who the scholar person is, because like what you mentioned, a person who has knowledge, you know, gain somewhat of knowledge from a person who has what they see is more knowledgeable than them, and so on and so forth. And
they have like a teacher and their teachers teacher, their learning and our Alma I was called as they are the ones who pass down the the inherit from profit ideas. And they pass on this knowledge to us. So unless you're a person who's at some point, seeking knowledge, you know, then you will find it hard to know who's because anyone who speaks Arabic, you know, uses phrases here and there. Yeah. has a beard. You know, me up here to be someone who is of knowledge. Now, you may not get the books or bus or nice books, but you know, behind me, I can't read the title. It looks nice. Yeah, it's easy. Yeah. Yeah. So just to say what you like to continue for you? Yeah. Actually, often, you
know, I say, I'm gonna let me divert. And then I forgot the reason why I was doing
shows that you were listening to, yeah, you're sticking to the script.
So yeah, so how does that work? I think this is something that we need to, you know, have within our communities is to,
to recognize who the people of knowledge are, and to tell people that, you know, the, these are the people of knowledge, and these are the things that we should these people will refer to go back to, they're not infallible. Okay, they're not infallible. But at the same time, they do have a status of others. You know, Allah subhanaw taala mentions, you know, many places in terms of those who know those who don't know not the same, you know, that Allah subhanaw taala raises has raised the level of the status of overlimit the prophets of Allah, so many a hadith, people of knowledge, proof of knowledge. So that concept does exist. Okay.
That has become very much, you know, lost at the moment because, well, who are these people? This is one of our big downfalls. We can't identify who the people of knowledge are. Because,
you know, every year I want to ask, Why do you think that is?
And I'm not sure if there's one reason there. Yeah, I think there are a number of things. I mean,
we start defining what beneficial knowledges Yeah. Okay. And you start from the very top beneficial knowledge, what's beneficial and eliminate something that the professor said, Make dua for and see refugee and from animal lions, to seek knowledge from a refuge from knowledge don't benefit.
Ultimately, the purest of knowledge is what knowledge of the working knowledge of the two revelations that was given to us Quran and Sunnah, that's the ultimate benefit in terms of knowledge. And anything that allows us to understand that in a better way, and a greater way that impacts our actions to become better people become more righteous to become better Muslims. So all of these things which lead to that these two sent the pieces of knowledge if you like, this is what we're talking about the Muslims should aspire to. Okay, the ultimate in terms of benefit. That doesn't mean there isn't other types of knowledge of benefit because of course, there's medicine and
there's engineering and it was all you know, other beneficial knowledge as but from the sphere that we're talking about. Yeah. Islamic knowledge. Yeah. So if we can concentrate on these are the two sources of pure knowledge and anything that leads us back to that to understand it in a better way.
And what I mean more specifically, because again, that's still very general. Okay, when we read the Quran, what do we mean by understand the Quran
In what Adela What did Allah intend
in this eye for us to understand, okay. Or for example, the statement of the prophets as and what he did he want us to understand from that, okay. This is you know, arriving at the objective in terms of the two revelations are the Quran and Sunnah is to arrive at an understanding
in something which this is what it was intended for us to understand. And then in turn to kind of manifest that in our lives and start acting upon that.
what I can what can I not go straight to the source? And just go straight? Like you said that to two sources that we have the two revelations Quran and the Sunnah. Yeah. And I just go straight there, you know? Sure. I'm gonna go straight here. And I'm gonna take from the Quran and the Sunnah. This is the source. Right? I have no teacher, I've not referred to as a scholar, you know, as the Allah revealed it, and we can access it. And these things are hamdulillah they're accessible the Quran, and Hadith, they're accessible. So I'm going straight to the source. And let's say for example, what happens there, you begin to
self teach yourself.
this is a common argument.
And you can add to that as well, for a person who has this understanding that okay, if the Quran and Sunnah if a last point I wanted to send something in clear Arabic for us to understand why then we need even more. So why do we need to go to people? If Allah says Allah subhana, Allah gave us revelation easy for us to understand why cannot just go to it? Yeah, right. So
you could count on that in a number of ways. But we can start with that the Quran was not revealed in one book, okay, it was revealed to us over a period of 20 years, 23 years, it was given to the Prophet sallallahu Sallam and gradually imparted to the people.
And the Companions then took that knowledge bit by bit stage by stage.
Then after that, you find the Companions took it that way and then passed it on,
you know, on to others that the perfect addresses and said, you know, do not address people in a way that they don't understand. Okay, do you want them to deny Allah's Messenger and his Allah and His messenger? So maybe there's certain aspects of the deen which maybe not everybody can understand. Okay, which may lead the person to having confusion.
When Massoud or the Allahu Anhu famous Companion of the Messenger of Allah Elisa, Saddam, again, warning us of speaking to people according to the level of the aka the intellect, which is the same, okay, so you may find a person who goes to the Quran and this is okay.
Yeah, you had leadin
tolerable solid quantum Sakara. Okay, after prediction, I'm going to the pub.
Why? Well, I've got no, I've got for antifragile Okay, in the winter time, we didn't come into maybe like 567 in the morning. I can have a few. I'll be sobered by four or five. Okay, I'm good to go.
Well, were you talking about a Colorado movie? No, no. Are we talking about? No, no. Did you not read the alien? Certainly, sir. Don't come close to prayer. If you're intoxicated, the person read the ayah from Quran fully unaware that this is mental. It's been abrogated meaning that that ruling is no longer implemented for us. There's a verse in Surah Dilma ADA which prohibits alcohol entirely, okay. So, if a person wants to go to the the way revelation by themselves, this is a potential masiva as a potential calamity that person may fall into. So there are aspects which require a person to have knowledge of a nursing Baldwinsville okay, that what may abrogate and
that's what's been abrogated. What abrogate Senate what's been abrogated, okay, that's one aspect. There are so many examples that can be given from the Quran and Sunnah where a person may come to a conclusion and have the complete opposite of what I mentioned earlier. Yeah, what Allah Subhana Allah wants us to understand, to arrive at and likewise the Prophet Elissa Tsolum. No person took this approach except that they fell into destruction in terms of understanding Islam. Yeah, for this reason, the prophets are some said that the lemma the scholars are the inheritors of the prophets. They inherit what money they inherit this knowledge to pass on to other people to teach other
people. Okay. So for this reason,
we cannot possibly get this long discussion I'm trying to keep it kind of concise. person cannot just think I'm gonna go to the two sources. And this is how I'm going
To understand why Islam, a person who does that will have their own version of Islam and fall into destruction. For this reason, the position and the status of a redeemer has established and Quran established and so on and has value conscious do away with it, and put yourself on the same kind of level as them. Could we give the example and let's say secular studies, a man or woman wanting to study engineering, or medicine, for example, and they say, I'm not going to go to the lectures, I will not meet the professor or the lecture. Rather, I will purchase the textbook. And I will go into and I will just read the book, and I'll become an engineer like that. Yeah. Could that be a fair
example? So for example, you know, I mean, how many people on the same premise, you know, buy a new cupboard from a particular place, try to read the instructions, how to build a cupboard that kind of do that. Not to mention the place but next confused building a table. I'm one of those people.
So they're getting confused, you know, and simple things like this. I mean, it's a good example, to give an unwieldy level, you know, no one's gonna pretend to be a doctor without studying medicine. But it's not always a fair example. Okay, because maybe the person says, you know, I'm not saying I'm a doctor, but do I need to be an island? Is everybody going to be a qualified LM then? No. Okay. So if you've got a headache, can I say to you take a paracetamol Can I say that? You? Can? Yeah, yeah.
Likewise, building one you will acquire,
narrate from me, even if it is one verse, so the person has this understanding. But this is not like, you know, a free pass for you to then just go to anything, when the purposes of building one, you know, propagate for me tell other people about even if it's one a on the premise that you understand that Yeti, yeah, and the premise, you understand what it's all about? Not talking about, oh, you know, brother, it's okay for you to drink off to Azure, you know, building one, you will I have conveyed the verse of what you're talking about. So the premises audience will be given that you understand what you're talking about? Yeah. The practice of the element of the past?
Would all and you know what to say element of the past went from our grandfathers and automatically from the history of Islam? Yeah, from the history of Islam, the Sahaba themselves. When they profess racism had passed away, they themselves will be hesitant to answer questions. There's somebody who is Allah Mini, there's somebody who's more knowledgeable than maybe you ask him, you know, so this practice was taught by the prophet so them and they inherited this scholars know, so they inherited this way of learning. This is something we need to remind people of how people to recognize it, remember how to respect knowledge. And this is something we need to be proactive in,
in our from our young children is to teach that there are scholars they are alone, that we respect them, for the knowledge that they have, not because he's a name, we love them because of their because the knowledge that Allah gave to them, you know, these are the kinds of things we need to kind of feel like nurture within our communities, our youngsters, they can learn to love aroma, and learn to love knowledge itself. Because I think a lot of Muslims have have don't know how, what to respect and what to love anymore. Because they got involved in so many other things. Would you say they go hand in hand? They go hand in hand, absolutely love, knowledge, love, the amount of love
they're invaluable of knowledge? Yes, because the reason you know, we as Muslims, we have to be careful who we become attached to,
if we love a particular person of knowledge is because of what knowledge Allah gave to them to Allah.
I mean, other otherwise, he's your brother in Islam and hamdulillah there's another person who's your brother Islam, yeah, what makes you know, your attachment to this particular person, maybe more than another person is because of the knowledge that he has. And it goes, you know, in turn, actually,
the more knowledge you have, the more taco you should have, the more fear of Allah the more hope and the stronger your a bow there will be more sincerity you will have in Allah subhanaw taala. So the good one, you know, hand in hand, so that the island is loved for the knowledge he carries. Which is the purest of knowledge. Yeah. Which you know, if you can benefit from him, allows you to get closer to Allah subhanaw taala there are people who love you know, football stars, NBA stars, NFL whatever sport you like, cricket, what is it you love them for? You know, your attachment to them as a role model for you. Why? Because you want to you aspire to be
like them in the sport than they are doing. Because maybe they only look money.
There's many reasons why a person may want to be like another person. But, you know, loving that person is a very big thing for us. Yeah. Why do you attach yourself to that person? For us as Muslims it's because of the knowledge that Allah gave to them. Mm.
You know, is and this comes in, of course, when we look at nowadays, you know, it's all about personalities, you know, and people loving a personality and, and for the for that person's personality more than, for example, what they may have to offer to the extent where,
and you can correct me, if I'm wrong, you may have two people knowledge, and they may be talking about the same thing, for example, but you get people say, Oh, I prefer this speaker, because of because of him, because of his personality. You know, is there something wrong in that? I mean, people have personalities. At the end of the day, there are times where you listen to the story of a particular companion. Let's mention salamander versus Okay, or are the Alon an amazing story? Yeah. And yet, you find the story is told by many, you know, students knowledge shoe Imams, but as one particular person you just delivery? Yeah, you know, it's not necessarily the joke. It's how you
So if somebody there were good storyteller?
I mean, of course, I mean, in an honest way, in a good way. Yes. He's a storyteller. And that's not a problem. Okay. You know, I may have, I prefer certain people when they talk, the way that the language they use, it's just easier for me to understand. Yeah, that's not for me to say that, that the other shift that there is any lower than I have greater knowledge, but I just feel that I get greater benefit, that benefit reaches me easier and quicker, because the way that they deliver, okay, you know, sometimes they're a great ruler, who
others were better at teaching than others. It's just a gift, isn't it? So, but that doesn't detract from who the others are? Yeah. Well, you should speak any less of that person. 100%. Because at times, you know, that the other island is a great Island, yes, have the knowledge that they have the knowledge and Hadith, for example, or the knowledge in tough seas.
But the way that they impart that knowledge is not like others, okay? becomes an issue when you start, you know, becoming disrespectful towards others, but to like, one one arm over the other, because of the way they deliver on you the way that you benefit. Personally, there's no problem and also about them.
The character, you know, a lot of people from, from what I know, especially from other students of knowledge, they end up loving a chef a lot. Not necessarily, but from what they taught in a book, but for whom they learned from their manners. Yeah. You know, from spending time with I mean, you know, I will, I don't always always like to mention my story. Yeah. Because I'm not unique. I mean, yeah, maybe everyone has their own unique story, but it doesn't mean it's any better than anyone else, you know? Yeah. But I remember, you know,
what, it first started learning Arabic. And I didn't really know very much, somebody said, We're gonna attend the Duchess of Sheffield. And
I said, I'm not gonna understand slavery if you don't understand your benefit. Okay, it's like, okay, so Dallas is off the market. And mustard number we rush on. And then, you know, for weeks on end, we're attending his lesson.
After the doors the board is with me, would give me like, the whole answer, or the kind of some the gist of the summary of what the deluxe was about. So I get that benefit, okay. But then, you know, you look at the person. And you see the way that they walked towards the chair motion, you see a distance, the way he would sit, the way he would talk his movements. So
you get an attachment to the person because of the Halacha. Or because of their manners. Yeah. Before you understand how they can speak. And then when you can understand how they speak. Yeah, that your love is even more for them. Yeah. I can't describe that to you. Yeah. Because
I think to myself, I tried to imagine you know, when some of the companions they would they heard about the prophet Isaiah 64. They heard a word he always spoke or how he spoke, they would see him how he moved how we interact with people. Yeah. And their hearts. Were just
that was it. This is, you know, this is the truthful one. Yeah. And then when they heard him speak, it was a next level of attachment and love for that person. Yeah. So
you know, when you have this recognition of understanding of who their scholars are, yeah, you know, your, your love for them and attachment to them. And quite as difficult to explain it's not like anything else. Yes, true. It's not like anything else I needed to finish it was picking on a personal level. I mean, work in that really mission has opened that door for me to spend time with, you know, Messiah and students of knowledge and those people in that world beyond the screen beyond watching online or attending while they are on the table. And it is almost like a
Different world. Yeah, you know, to the extent when you're when you're close to, like, for example the world we're sitting, you know, it's different. It's a different experience. And so because of what you're talking
mashallah, it's a different experience, you know,
in a kind of puts me to my next question, I want to ask you,
who was the first scholar that you that you met? And what kind of thoughts are running through your mind when you when you met them? They could make a big impact for meeting with her was gonna, even if it's not the first one that you met, perhaps Yeah, maybe one that had a really big impact just meeting them.
So, okay, I'm gonna answer the question, but I'm gonna answer without mentioning anything. Okay. Yeah, that's fine. Yeah.
yeah, I don't, I don't, I don't need to mention why. So I was three years. Muslim here in the UK before went to Medina. Okay. And we used to attend Saturday circle. And that was my first main teacher was Egyptian chef. Yeah. And I really benefited a lot from from his lectures and
the kind of talks we'd had after the things we used to study, and then went to Medina, and there was the chef was talking about earlier, I didn't understand what he was talking about. But then, after that, your language slowly,
you know, gets better and things like that, that particular chef has the biggest impact on my mom, my life, understanding, and knowledge and pupil of knowledge. You taught us for one year.
And it was almost, because you see him coming to Mr. Neville with teaching, you don't get close to
close to him, you know, well, the students that surround him catch him and after does, you just see him from afar.
Now he's in your classroom, you're in all
I can actually shake his hand
So he gave us an exam at the end of the each term, and each year, because there's two terms 5050.
And then first 150, he gets the 50 marks in the teachers hands, he gives you a medicine, like ongoing, you can give you an exam or you can just give it to you about how good you are in the class and things like that. So I said to all of us, I want you to choose one miss Ella, from because we're studying the data much to hit by even rushed.
It's a book of comparative religion, comparative, comparative religion comparative
is what all of you choose is ever an issue. Mention the opinions of the dilemma in that issue, and give me the sub will feed off the reason why they're different. Yeah, because one of the beautiful things, kind of unique things about bidet how much the head is that he was give suborbital enough? Why they deferred? It's one of the gems of the book.
So some of the students are have a lot more shall we excited about you know, okay, Chef.
just mentioning the acquired, okay. I can mention just mentioned, like the reason why they're different. There's like, I don't can't do that. Because you're Shalaka. Raja, shall I give the correct and strong opinion? We're in third year? Sharia. Okay. She goes, who used to make Raja
he said, Who are you to give the correct or the strong opinion over another? There's not going to be you. You read the following the view of your teacher? Or is that you are not in a position to give Roger. The correct a stronger view one over the other. You said you're still in third year. There's still issues of coverage for P and Kabbalah. And you've not even studied
you suggested mentioned that does your level for now. I will never ever forget that. This video is Eric Stewart. He was very good, strong thought we had Mashallah. Yeah, he's from a Yemen. May Allah bless him my show.
But the show could just want to just you know,
across the board, just have some respect today. He was disrespecting it. Yeah. Not at all. You wanted to do good. Chef will just give us a reminder, you know, and
that, that examples like that. Even you know, because you even achieved the perfume that he was, yeah, as a particular perfume.
And that you finished the class and you would smell the perfume. You can't see him. You know, he'd gone past, you know, reminded me of, you know, when most of the women or males are the Lionel from different races from the rich people of Makkah. Yeah. And he would wear the best of perfume best for clothes, even if you didn't say most of them. No, but you would know that he'd been here because of the perfume he would wear the eyeliner. So even that perfume becomes marble Finn.
You love that perfume that he was? Yeah.
So it impacts.
And this is the 30 day the benefit one of the benefits of course of sitting with Obama. Yeah, wonderful MBA those who inherited from the profits, the way that they speak the way they treat knowledge. And this is why, for me personally, when I see some people, the way they talk about the things that they're talking about, I just think
Why are you doing? Really? Yeah, save yourself? Save yourself by just keeping quiet, please. You know, the, you know, there's nobody else talking about this. So unlike the last Savior of mankind, I've exposed
the misguidance of Sonas, Yaffe, please, you're falling into a big hole.
But because the person never came into contact with real people of knowledge, doesn't know anything better. Yeah, you know, it's a very small person flexing muscles, if he'd done we talked about,
you know, but and that, that is definitely the problem with that is that
people know, that will recognize that. Yeah, but the average Muslim won't. This is yeah, you're right. Because the average Muslim just sees everybody's on the same platform, you know, everyone's making Soulive and Haoran. Maybe, you know, I can go to the massage and maybe have some understanding namond And the person who, you know, Sheffield rahamallah. He said, the more I increased my knowledge, the more I would know about how much I didn't know. Yeah, you know, this is Shafi. sproutly moment and matale Rahim Allah, in a word of Allah. I'm one of the mountains of knowledge in Al Islam. One of the Muslims is, you know, through his name, yeah. METAvivor sheffey.
The more you know, the more you realize, the you know, I don't know anything. And even just up until, because you never stopped learning. Up until maybe four years ago, I met a chef I'd never met before. Okay, okay. And, you know, the claim that we're following the way of the pious predecessors, and maybe the majority of the time when we talk about issues and giving knowledge that we do have in politics, it's mostly to do with a moment that we have in within our time
speaking with this particular chef, and having some real beneficial time with him, like three or four days with him, and talking about this particular issue, this understanding, and all quotations, pretty much nearly all quotations,
if it's not from Quran and Sunnah, and in fact, it's not as though he's not leaving them, he would be mentioning statements Formosana that has happened to his neighbor. These two particular books away are two books of narrations which are specifically from the Sahaba and Teddy.
And he said This is in reference to the understanding the early generations and I thought to myself, what have I been doing? What am I, you know, quote, we would many times say that, you know, understanding of the Quran and the Sunnah upon the understanding of the pious predecessors, Allah Posada beautiful, no problem. But then how often are you referring back to them is Sheikh was referring every second statement is, is mentioned muslin if you've never Shiva, almost inevitable result.
And I thought that that level of adherence to the original sources of, of our self, or something hadn't come across, it's
not at that level, because maybe I didn't, because I didn't have a relationship within time within our limit like that before. So it just just opened my eyes. I mean, just goes to show that you're always learning Yes, you can spend 20 years of your life that you there's nothing if he these, you know, these some of these orlimar has been up in their 60s and 70s and 80s. A young pup, you know, he's 2530. Okay, you're not even 40 yet. Sadly, what we're talking about?
is like, the more you know, the more you realize that just
you feel you're very fearful. You speak about your deen not, you're hiding knowledge, or that you're talking about something which is doubtful. Some that's clear cut, you can talk about it, you know, what's the word about of Salah? Or the pillars of the prayer? Yeah, but when you're talking about matters, which affect Muslim communities, imparting knowledge which affects different, you know, Muslims in the community or even around the world. It's very, very, very,
very heavy, potentially very dangerous, what you're talking about? Yeah, you know, and this is the army doesn't care does.
In fact, it may not be the case that they don't care. They care. Yeah, but they just haven't got the knowledge to know that you just keep quiet. Yeah, you know, I just feel it's, it's upon me to speak the hawk. They have no knowledge to realize that go back to the people from knowledge. And then, you know, speak with
then get some advice from them and then take things forward.
In the circle, okay. And
so, in terms of, you know, you talking about you studying chef, you know, and the story you mentioned about the chef,
would you say that was around the same time what you,
like, work recognized the importance of scholars, you know, how important is that we have these people. Was that around the same? Or was it? It was way before that was that this was just an example that, you know, maybe next year we graduated from university, this was just a reminder that
come down here, way before that. I'll tell you what I mean, if you're like, in Arabic, time, you kind of getting to grips with the language and you're meeting,
kind of want to know, like, honestly, it's a lightbulb moment, because that's to do with an idea that came with it as one time I'm sitting in the second semester. Yeah. I've gotten first with the first semester of Arabic not understanding very much when the teacher is talking, but you studied that what's in the books and you know, you get through the exam, you go into the second semester, and in the second semester, you have to memorize 20 Hadith.
And the teacher, on one occasion, just read Hadith.
I understood that
I began was the understanding what the teacher was saying. Yeah, it was it was literally like, just like that, suddenly, something. They may we just like a format of combination of words that I just happened to understand. But that was a hadith. Yeah, it was late at Columbia, shimmered for industry. Apparently, that couldn't be shimmered. Do not eat with your left hand because the SharePoint eats with his left. Yeah.
I understand that hadith.
And at the end of the first year,
this was anecdotes on personal things, but it would apply to anyone you know, of course, was at the airport returning. And it was another brother for me. And and for a reason that brother never returned. It never came back.
we were talking about what we've done that year, how we've benefited and we were talking about solar today, you know, and I was translating sorbitol bayyinah. To him, from Arabic to English to English to him. I mean, probably about 75% of it. Yeah. But I remember
just a little bit of margin importing into somebody else. Yeah. Was just this is why one of the reasons why you know, and one of the benefits of, you know, learning something, give it to people that they can become closer to Allah subhanaw taala. Less about myself, but, you know, recognizing the people of knowledge came, you know, fairly early in TED studies, where you can see how people react with them. Now, people respect them and how they love them. What was this all about? Yeah, you know, the chef getting up from the chair, and people wouldn't let him go until he found his place in Salah. Yeah. What? Love Respect, what what does that person have, and the more you spend time with
them, the more you realize what they have, there's a I've heard this story, and he can tell me if you've heard it as well, that there was a janazah. And sure what they mean was, I think was attending that Janaza and a person from like a, I don't know if it was a royal family, or someone of high status within the kingdom. And that person we're gonna shoot for the moon was walking in the sun, people will rushing to put shade over the mean. And the person who was walking on the other side, he had guards and people who were appointed and they were being paid to keep them in the shade. And then they said that this is the love of the dilemma, that people are rushing to give
shade to the to the odd scholar without him asking without him pain or other any you know, and people rushing to do that. But the person on who may not not on the level of knowledge.
People had to be paid
to, you know, something that
it was after Salat al Fajr. In
Masjid Al haram in Makkah Shukla finished to give like Duff's after fajr and I was with somebody who's maybe early studies there. So you're gonna go see see Sharon with me.
I'd never seen the show before maybe saw him three times in my whole life. Okay, I never had the honor really of sitting with him for any long time and but anyway, I managed to see him. So he gives us after fajr
and then I was maybe the distance of maybe like 10 meters away, not far more quite close.
So he gave the dots and then suddenly stood up. And when he stood up like he wanted us woman, so Okay.
is what is available happily.
after the sun had risen while yeah, now what is no time for there is no time for that yellow tree totally mush. And it was, you know, but they wanted to swarm him coddled him praise him for for, you know, the status that he had for the knowledge they have. It was it was it was short as well you know him everything that I'm all
ready we're like okay, okay, expect directions.
So again, another occasion where he came to jam Islamia, and he gave a talk after the hot in Columbus area.
Again amazement, like, you know, seeing the shift, you're seeing him, you know, yeah. And then that evening, he said, have adults after salata Margaret,
and he sat in the chair of Shimabara juicer, Edie or him, Allah said us we're going to be
so he can give that off to us. After mother I'm sorry. And then for Asia, okay, we'll pray because the place was packed, we sat down. And then everyone didn't go anywhere, because the place was so you know, packed, and no one moved anywhere. So they just prayed where they were. And then after that, they were saying shift shift, you're gonna go back, please give us some more off to Asia? There was some more of the Asia. And then he said, when he permitted, eventually they said, Yes, please, please go begging him, please. They just give us another 1520 minutes. We don't know when you're going to come back to Medina where we'll see you again and things like this. Yeah. So again,
even he came back into the chair. And it started to just give a reminder to the people. But I was a bit far away. Not too far. Like it's kind of close. But I looked around, I just saw like a sea of people around. And they were just like, you know, some of my teachers who were teaching us Arabic, in the Damar had in the Arabic Institute, and they were all there on the floor. It was a moment in time, which I think that the respect and love and admiration that were given to the people of knowledge, not just because their name, it's, you know, back in the day where, you know, where these are limit with with us, like mom, a lot of people still refer to them around the world. This issue
has popped up discussion, let's go see the sheer travel in Ramadan. And they'd go maybe to Cosima other times, and they would have asked the chef, this is what we do. Now. Who are people referring to? Yeah, they're going back to you not to say that there aren't any aroma. Yes, they are. Yeah, but the issue is not with their ultimate dishes with the people. Because they're not going back to the real, you know, a girl Emma, they're sufficing themselves with,
you know, YouTube, I don't know what YouTube was. But again, maybe, is the YouTuber to blame?
Maybe yes, maybe? No, it's difficult to just give a ruling because maybe they don't know. You know, that a place they feel it's the position to do that. And even the the, you know, the average Muslim, how are they supposed to differentiate? If he's speaking Arabic, and he's speaking Arabic, and I don't know, Arabic should work was difference. You know, this is why we need to within ourselves. Make sure that the the gray areas are blown away that these there are a limit. These are the people who need to refer to stay in the area of knowledge that which you can you capable of talking about? Yeah, you know, if there's, it's above you then stay away from the circle. Well, I say,
the obit jealous of the Sturgis shade of meeting them, you know, being even as close as
the people I mean,
I'm a student of shepherd with me. Really? Yeah, I sat with him a number of times.
And he asked him homeless three times.
Head to head at a so and so. Student of zones
studied with the issue, and you made yourself well. What did you make yourself? Yes, it was the reality really, you know, you're a student of so and so and in actual fact, you know, yeah, careful, you know, yes. Online. So I just want to make that an absolute you know,
I just want to show three times
no one in the world and that could claim that you know, I'm doing it because I mentioned it is because it's done. Yeah.
Yeah, this is why it's important to know where people come from. Yeah. Where you studied with how you study with people. She said, Well, I got I got a telephone call from somebody I'm student
so that's left on finishing on and maybe I'm negative. You know, I was disappointed to say that you know what it sounds like we're like Papa Yeah, we're going in a negative so what I want to ask you now is obviously
what I've always been good at. What I've been good at Yeah, so you know, I lost found out I'm in the Prophet told us that there will always be a group of people that are hiding and Allah always clear upon the truth, you know, no one can deceive them, no one can harm them, always having and
there are masajid there are individuals whom Allah Subhana Allah chooses places which allow Allah's Deen to flourish
and to benefit now. And you know, mentioning their names or mentioning these places really is
is not for me to say people know who they are now okay people will recognize the work of good massage good or good individuals, sincere people and we ask Allah Santa to bless them and allow them to continue to do great work that they're doing well, man.
And whether those people are in front of a camera behind the camera for the vast majority, you know, there are a lot of a lot of people you don't see what they're doing. Yeah.
it's not about
what necessarily what you see in the apparent who's in the camera and stuff like that? No, I'm not what it's about the whole setup, you know, so hamdulillah Allah's dean will always be in a state of goodness, inshallah Tada, just for us to find out where our place can be to support the last Deen Mauna Kea, Emma, that we can have that excuse and the argument that we did something for last Dean upon clear knowledge. And that's only done by inheriting the correct methodology that has been with us since the Prophet Sutton's time.
When and when do you feel like I'm not what I'm going to be specific here and talk about the UK, especially. And in the West, perhaps?
What does the future hold? Here in terms of Islamic knowledge?
Then your Yeah, yeah, yep. So
it's difficult to save what's going to happen, the future doesn't have knowledge of that. Yeah. But
the people will be in a state of goodness, that people will be in a state of goodness, as long as what, as long as they adhere to the teachings of Allah and His messenger. And so so wherever you are on earth, you can be in the UK, you can be in Arabia, you can be the Americas and average and Asia and Africa, wherever you are.
Obviously, it wouldn't bother us in Australia, anywhere on earth, all the continents.
If people adhere to the teachings of Allah and His mission, that people will be in a state of goodness now. And as long as people have, go back to the people have knowledge that they can be in a state of goodness, even if they are in a very small area. They need to be like 1000s and 1000s of people who may have a small community, but you're living in a way that Allah Spanner is pleased with that. So people talking about, I don't even know kind of words of hatred and whatnot, maybe for some, it's better for them to go somewhere else, and to take their family somewhere else that's better for them. But then maybe in other people, they live in a particular area, maybe a non Muslim
country would have the freedoms of a masjid, they in their houses close to the masjid. They have everything that they need right now and there and then it's good for them. Yeah, you know, maybe that's a bad situation for you. So the goodness of last month, Allah's Mercy can absolutely reach you, wherever you are. So it's not all doom and gloom that we need to move out of here. You know, the curtains coming down on us very soon to put up the barriers and battalions of the Muslims need to be you know, mocking the edges of the hood of where we can meet where we can't be and things like that. Yeah, you need to be more practical, a bit more
and what you're going to do and plan Yeah, don't just do things ad hoc ly you know, plan what you're going to do what's good for you may not be good for another person, ya know? So, out of the lie wasa now Allah's Earth is very spacious, very wide and you try to find where your places with your family and what's best for you. And you ask Allah spawn to protect you to save you'd save Muslims and that's what you can do is do the bit what you think is best inshallah Tada by adhering to the teachings of Allah Delilah teachings of the Prophet alayhi wa sallam, and going back to the people of knowledge, know how to emphasize the importance of that are 100% You know, and I think also
even to be aware, you know, to be aware of the situation, you know,
and to come to the realization of, then you can start thinking about what's best for you and like what you mentioned, because it was important to be have that sense of awareness, you know, of your family, you yourself, your family, your surroundings, you know, a sha Allah. So, with with that, Could you perhaps, could be summarize, or even add final advice to our segmentation? So, that would have been good question. Just before I go, I gotta give that as a final No, no, we can. Yeah. So
adding to what I've said, you know, you could, you know, we mentioned a lot of things much and
importance of one importance of the scholars you know, and recognize who the scholars are and always trying your best to reconnect to them, you know, and in some way, shape or form inshallah.
So, yeah, I mean, I think, you know, alongside what I've said in terms of recognizing the knowledge, yeah, and who the people of knowledge are, yeah, this is the theory. Now, the practical is what the practical is, the pragmatic steps that you will take, what you're going to do next is
You know, start benefiting from that knowledge by acting upon it. Now, you know, everyone will be scholar, not everyone will be Ireland. But whatever knowledge Allah has given to you, is for you to act upon that your companions would learn one verse at a time, or five verses at a time. 10 is a time, memorize it, act upon that and move on like this. Now, let's be more Sims like to see, let's be the, you know, let's be the tortoise. Now, let's be the tortoise Don't be the rabbit or even to here. It was.
Yeah, it was the hare wasn't it was the hare is kind of just doing things and then resting and be constant and steady. That's what's beloved to Allah subhanaw taala. Before before we get before we conclude, insha Allah Tiana, I want you to I want to ask you this final question about everything with all because there's got to be
irrelevant, you know, for the for the viewer Sharma. And what I've said is irrelevant. No, it is it is very symbolic logic. You know, it's like how what I meant was not
When you say that you're pulling my leg?
So the question I had to have one is
what are we talking about URL and scholars and all of this for reason, you know, and I think one of the reasons we want to mention stuff is
what to Abel enabled for the Ummah, the Muslims to tackle challenges, you know, these are the things
that are important, right? So in terms of what are the challenges that we're facing?
So as a Muslim, there will always be challenges. Now, this is a life of tests, life of challenges, those tests and challenges, some of them are external. You can look at this way, one perspective, there are some are external, and some are internal, external challenges, like people want to change reality, they want to change definitions of what we know to be reality.
All the different movements that are there, yeah. And for Muslim that poses, you know, a big challenge for us. It fundamentally conflicts with our understanding of the world and our world outlook. You know, I mean, it's not unique to Islam, actually. Are you possibly talking about the history of mankind? And womankind?
Because you have to say, things like, no, no, no strange things. If you if you say one thing, you don't say another, then you're somehow you know, being fair not being just and isn't earlier. Nonetheless, there are external challenges, but then how do we deal with those external challenges? That means we have our own internal challenge, that is, how do we possibly refute? Possibly clarify those outside
enemies or challenges if, depending on what it is, that is for us, to us to recognize and go back to our sources for us to recognize what the beneficial knowledge is, act upon that knowledge, teach people you know, the prophet Elisa to Saddam with his companions, taught them to heed the Oneness of Allah to work with Allah and then to combat shirk.
teaching them sunnah and opposing Buddha you know we have these you know, polar opposites now in Islam, you know to heathen shirt can be dancin. Yeah, we to deal with Buddha, you have to know Sunday's to oppose shirt you have to know what to Hades. Yeah. So in dealing with his outside, external challenges, we have to know what poses that Yeah. And what poses that is our deen and to have knowledge of your deen. So, if you have more knowledge of another Scripture than your own scripture, you have to ask yourself
a question yourself, how is it I have more knowledge at a deep level? Do I really deep level of another scripture? non Muslim scripture? Yeah. But my own scripture you ask them something about, you know,
from the Quran, it's like there's no Quran.
Yes, it's an old one.
So there has to be a balance. Yeah, I'm not saying that. Don't do that. Because we are in need of brothers. Yeah. May Allah bless them for the work that they do. I mean, some very good brothers. Yeah. But not the expense of of your own faith has been good find balance. Cattolica Anelka Amata. Masada you made you a balanced nation? Yeah, in the middle, you're not extreme on one side or the other. Take that path in all of your affairs. Allah Subhana Allah will help you bless you and be able to as Islam Al Hamdulillah always was there was able to rebuttal and refute philosophy, isms and schisms, the same outcome and 100 it will be possible will be victorious. Alhamdulillah. Islam
remain and all of these false ways of life will come up, come up for labor
And then they will fall down because it's it's false yeah and the last one that is not giving victory to that now so as long as we remain on the winning side
all will be well in Charlotte Allah make dua for that. Shall we win? And there's hope. Absolutely. Yeah, of course there's always hopes panel lotsa Never Lose Hope yeah you know this is a lot of fun data wants us to have shaytaan wants you to lose hope yes and Allah subhanaw taala as promised us McGuffey Allah forgiveness and Paradise and how to reach that technical agenda. Quran sunnah follow the path of Allah azza wa jal, we have the prophet Elisha Salam, and follow the way of those, you know, early generations whom the Prophet SAW Selim spoke about, specifically on its local aphasia. And I want to thank you for your time. You know, it's it's been nice this has been our our second
podcast worshiping God.
Many more to come in sha sha, Allah Tada, why not? Do this? I mean, it's quite relaxed. It's not like you under member and you have to you can't pause me I have to be constant in your talk. And if you make a mistake, somebody comes off the hook. But yeah, you know, you said the word wrong. Okay, fine.
Isn't it is common? Yeah. Like, Zack Aloka it's been highly beneficial.
And this is what we want. Yeah, sure. At this point, I mentioned hope has benefit. Yeah, I've said my piece man, how much
shall I hope to have you soon and I thank you for being with us. Inshallah,
as ask Allah to grant you, Elgin, you and you and your family, you know, and to preserve you as well. Yeah. And with that, inshallah we come to the close of our episode here with our chef, who joined us. Chef was in Clemson has been a blessing to have him I thank Allah subhanaw taala first and foremost, for allowing us to be here and to discuss the subject matter. And ask Allah to allow it to be of benefit for those who are watching. Until next time in sha Allah asked those who are watching to like, like, share, subscribe. Until next time, I've been buried here we shall see Him Clemson somehow NACA Lahoma. We have the cache Lulu Elana, South LA to boudic A salam Wa alaykum