The Truth About Original Sin
Channel: The Deen Show
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Bismillah Alhamdulillah salaam aleikum, which means peace be unto you. Welcome to another episode of the deen show. You want to know about Islam, you've come to the right place you want to know about Muslims, you've come to the source. Now today we're going to be discussing a very, very important topic. It's something that if we understand properly, we will live a better life, we will live a complete life. It is the concept of salvation, we're going to be talking about something that some of you are familiar with, some of you might even believe. Now, this might be sensitive to some people. So we apologize. Our intention is not to upset anybody or hurt anybody's feelings. Our next
guest is going to be talking about the salvation as some people believe that someone else paid the price for your sins. And let's hear what he has to say. Our next guest sit tight is Dr. Lawrence Brown, right back on the dean show.
There's only one, Jesus was his messenger.
why I did that, maybe it's maybe it's just to break the ice. So I'll let it grow slower. So how are you Dr. Brown? I'm doing good. Thank you for being with us. Some of our audience already already are familiar with you. We've done a few shows in the past. And I'm very happy, excited that you're back again. Good to be here. All right, we want to talk about we're gonna get straight to the topic. Some people they have conveniently, or some people have just blindly or some people have sincerely accepted the idea, the belief that someone else has paid the price for their sins. We want to discuss this. We want your ideas, and we want your opinion on this. Okay. Well, you know, let me
begin by saying that religious discussion is always a little bit sensitive, and it's not our intention to hurt anybody's feelings.
Rather, our intention is just to get to the root of the matter.
We were talking earlier about on one of our earlier episodes about how I became Muslim,
basically, was my path through Christianity or exactly what my path was. And I voiced some of my concerns about Christianity in that episode, the reason why I myself was not able to accept the tenets of Christian faith.
One of the reasons was that Christian faith hinges off of the concept of the atonement, the concept that Jesus Christ died for our sins.
I always had trouble with that concept.
I never understood how Jesus Christ or anybody could die for anybody else's sins. And so that's basically what we decided together to talk about on this show.
I think the beginning point that I would make is that the concept of the atonement is one of the most simplistic, but beautiful formulas that exists for religious salvation, the concept that if you believe in Jesus Christ, and you'd believe that He died for your sins, then that is sufficient for redemption that is sufficient for salvation, you will have your place in paradise. And I have to say, sounds good to me, or what do you think the be a fool not to accept?
And that's kind of my point. I mean, my point is, if it were true, and that's the big if, if it were true, we would all be fools not for accepting it, it would be the easiest thing just to say, Where do I sign on the bottom line and give me my key to paradise?
So, first of all, we have to validate the concept we have to ask ourselves, is it true? Did Jesus Christ die for our sins?
And I would say if we're going to if we're going to analyze that concept, first thing we have to do is ask the witnesses. I mean, let's ask the people who were there and who thought, okay, let's ask the Bible. Let's ask the Gospels.
But there's a problem there. If we're going to look at Matthew, Mark, Luke, and john, those are what is regard What are regarded as the biblical witnesses.
However, the big problem there is, Matthew, Mark and Luke, Luke and john. Were not written by Matthew, Mark, Luke, Luke and john.
This is a very little known for
But the fact of the matter is that all four gospels were anonymous. None of them are signed, none of them bear the name of the author. They were given those names out of convenience. Now, I'm going to go into some notes here, because I want to get this letter perfect. And I'm going to read you something. A statement by Graham Stanton was one of the greatest scholars of our time, on the New Testament. And he wrote, the Gospels, unlike most Greco Roman writings are anonymous. The familiar headings which give the name of an author the gospel, according to were not part of the original manuscripts for they were added only early in the second century,
added in the second century.
Who added them? Who added those names to the Gospels who we don't know who wrote them? Well, believe it or not, who added them, we don't know that either. Now,
I don't mean to get real picky here. But if I were to give anybody out there a book of guidance on anything, a book has guidance on car repair a book of guidance on astrophysics,
something that's going to impact your life.
Something that you want to know the authority of first question in your mind is going to be what I mean, it's going to be who wrote this, right? And yet here, we're being told that the Gospels, the four gospels, all four gospels of the Bible are anonymous.
I had a problem with that, and I think a lot of other people do. But I tell you what, let's just forget all that. And why not because most people forget all that. Anyway, for the last 2000 years, we've had sort of this syndrome, of trying to push that aside. So let's just for the sake of discussion, put that aside.
let's just look at the scriptural authority. Again, I'm going to read to you, the interpreters Dictionary of the Bible, the interpreters Dictionary of the Bible. Now, this is obviously a Christian work states, it is safe to say that there is not one sentence in the New Testament in which the manuscript tradition is wholly uniform.
Not one sentence, Bart D. Ehrman, stated in terms that I think are perhaps a little bit easier for us to get our, our grasp upon he said, quote, possibly it is easiest to put the matter in comparative terms, there are more differences in our manuscripts than there are words. And then in the New Testament, there are more differences in our manuscripts than there are words in the New Testament, which really gives me a very good, you know, sound feeling about the Bible? No. And I would just say it shouldn't, it shouldn't give anybody a feeling of comfort about the work. We've talked about the fact that, you know, the gospels were anonymous, many of the other books were
anonymous. And now we're hearing that there are more differences in the manuscripts than there are words in the New Testament.
So I don't mean to cut you off, tell me so just to get this straight. You're telling us that we don't know who actually wrote these books that Jesus obviously didn't write it, we don't have the gospel, according to Jesus. And many people are under the assumption that these were his companions. These were people that live with him, is this correctly, exists not true. And these are the references that people can go check so that you're not making this up, according to exactly. And by, by the way, everything that I read you everything that I tell you, you can find in my articles and in my books, which we'll come back to. But the point is that if we look to the gospels, Matthew,
Mark, Luke, and john, we first have to understand we're not reading Matthew, Mark, Luke, and john. We're reading anonymous, anonymous, anonymous, anonymous. Okay, we don't know who wrote them. And there are tremendous differences between them. Let me give you an example. Okay.
I mean, let's say that you pick up a book of mathematics and on page one, it says one plus one is two and on page 10, it says one plus one is three. You know, there's a problem, right? Big problem, you're probably gonna ditch that book pretty fast. Well, if we're holding the Bible up as being a book of revelation from God, we have to expect that there is not a single error within the Bible, but let me just read some things to you.
For example, the Bible tells us
what Jesus wore, what he drank, and what he said, right?
Yes or no.
Some people say one thing, others say another.
For example, in Matthew 2728, the Roman soldiers dressed Jesus in a scarlet robe.
However, in john 1992, it says that the robe was purple. Matthew 2734 says the Roman gave Romans gave Jesus sour wine mixed with Gaul, and Matthew 1523. It was mixed with
Matthew 1525. Jesus was crucified before the third hour. JOHN 1914 through 15 says about the sixth hour. Luke 2346 says Jesus his last words were father into your hands, I commit my spirit.
Beautiful words. Only problem is in john 1930. It records Jesus's last words as it is finished. Now, I'll tell you just kind of a whimsical story here. I thought I picked up a book a little while ago called Famous last words. Yes, right. And it recorded people's Famous Last Words throughout history. One of the one of the funniest ones, one of the one I liked the most was this general at Battle of Spotsylvania during the Civil War, okay, one of his aides was telling him not to be lifting his head up over a parapet because it was not cautious. It was dangerous. His famous fat last words where
they couldn't hit an elephant at this distance.
And that was the end.
They couldn't hit an elephant at this disk. He couldn't even finish the sentence. You got killed? Yeah. Famous last words. What's my point? My point is that followers of famous people hang on to their words. Alright. And when a person is dying, they hang on to the words even more closely, because everybody is looking to quote your famous last words. You know, what? And they're looking, they're looking for the answer, like that famous question, what's the answer? And the dying person said, What's the question? But the point is, they got the quote, right. And here in the Bible, we have two gospels, written by people we don't know. But let's say we trust them.
They both say different things. One says the last words were Jesus's last words where it has finished the other into your hands, I commend my spirit.
So we have to ask ourselves, is this is this something that we would trust? And you know, when we're talking about the atonement, what what does this all come down to? It all comes down to the crucifixion, right? Yeah. Question of did Jesus die for our sins? Well, let's take that a step further. Did Jesus die at all?
If we look at the biblical accounts, of what happened before and after the alleged crucifixion, we have to remember in the garden of God cemani, according to the Bible, all of the disciples deserted, deserted Jesus and fled. Now if all of the disciples deserted him and fled, who's there at his trial? Who is there at his persecution? Who is there at his crucifixion? We don't know.
We don't know who is there. We don't know who he wrote about it. We don't know the authority of what we have in our hands. What we do know is this, following the alleged crucifixion, who went to the tomb, according to Matthew, Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary, according to Mark, Mary Magdalene, according to Luke, the women who had come with him from Galilee, according to john, Mary Magdalene, why did they go to the tomb? Matthew to see the tomb? Mark, they brought spices. Luke, they brought spices, john, no reason. Was there an earthquake? Matthew? Yes. Mark, Luke, john. No mention. did an angel descend. Matthew. Yes. Mark, Luke, john. No mentioned, wait a minute, I have a problem. We're
talking about an earthquake and an angel descending. We're not talking about something as simple as Jesus riding the donkey. All of the Gospels agree. Jesus rode the donkey, which is pretty high on the WHO CARES list? Who cares if he wrote the donkey but they all agree he wrote the donkey.
But we have three gospels who failed to mention an angel descending and an earthquake.
I mean, can you imagine three newspapers recording a historical event? And one of them mentions an angel, one of them mentions an earthquake and three don't.
I'm only pointing out that we have reason to have suspicion about the account. who rolled back the stone, Matthew, the angel, Mark, Luke and john? Unknown. Who is at the tomb, Matthew and Angel, Mark, a young man, Luke, two men, john, two angels. Where were they? Matthew, the angel was sitting at the stone outside the tomb. Mark, the young man, the young man
was in the tomb sitting on the right side, Luke, the two men were inside the tomb standing beside them. And john, the two angels were, quote, sitting one at the head, the other at the foot, where the body of Jesus had land. By whom, and where was Jesus first seen when he was allegedly resurrected. Matthew, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary on the road to tell his disciples, Mark, Mary Magdalene, only. Luke, two of the disciples, john, Mary Magdalene, outside the tomb, different people, different places, different times, and we're told to believe it.
So my point is that we have to begin by questioning the scriptural authority to begin with, if there were four stories, that we knew who they were written by, and they all they all backed each other up detail for detail, we would have a foundation upon which we could trust this. But we have four gospels,
conflicting with one another on huge details. And we're asked to believe it. Dr. Brown, I want to be fair, for the the person who, you know, he says, Well, hold on.
You have this is an event. That's one of the most documented in history, historians like
Josephus, and others who have documented this as an event that did take place. How do you respond?
Well, first of all, I mean, we have to remember that in the Islamic tradition, we did not disagree about a crucifix. crucifixion having happened, okay. In the Islamic tradition, a crucifixion did happen.
But Muslims believe that Jesus Christ was not the one who was crucified. Now, I have to make a point here, a little known fact is that early Christians were divided on this issue. Many early Christians did not also did not believe that Jesus Christ was, this is a fact. This is a fact that there was a big controversy, they were denied. Everyone didn't just believe this. They were divided, okay. early Christians had different concepts about this, and some of the sex which which denied the crucifixion were huge.
And the reasons for denying it were sound as well. For example,
Jesus Christ prayed to be saved from the from the crucifixion. At the same time, in the Bible, we're told that,
that God heard his prayers, because he was a righteous man. Now,
what does hurt his prayers mean? Does that mean heard his prayers, and then refused them? No, it means heard his prayers and accepted them. Otherwise, it wouldn't make any sense. It would be like saying God heard his prayers, and denied him because he was a righteous man. But that wouldn't make any sense. So
you know, many, many early Christians, they did not believe that Jesus Christ had been crucified. They believe that he was raised up. And the Islamic belief is that another was substituted in this place. But it was made to appear to the people that it was Jesus Christ, who was substituted.
The vote is out. But the most popular opinion is that it was Judas Iscariot. Yeah, he was the one who was deserving of punishment. He was he was the traitor to God's prophet. And the Islamic belief is that God altered his features or the perception of the people to believe that he was Jesus Christ, he was crucified in place of Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ Himself was raised up until the time that he will return. Dr. Brown, tell me Is there any explicit statement that Jesus peace be upon him ever said, that I am coming to die for the sins of the world? This is a serious matter. And I just want to know the one that we love Jesus, did he ever say that he's gonna believe in him and you'll
be saved from all these sins and dying for your sins and put it on my back? I'll carry it for you.
Well, I call it the Jesus gold card.
No, I mean, first of all, no. And you have to ask yourself, why? Because the purpose of reset No, right? Not at all. No, he's never said he was going to die for the sins of mankind. As a matter of fact, he said many things that would indicate that he wasn't going to, okay. Again, Jesus Christ was, was a Orthodox Jew.
He taught the, the Jewish the Mosaic Law. He come, he came saying, Do not think that I have come to destroy the law. I have not come but to fulfill
He even elaborated he said, until heaven on earth shall pass not one job, not one tittle of the law shall be destroyed until I was fulfilled. So, you know, the The point is that, that he was following Mosaic Law and what Mosaic Law teach Mosaic Law taught, that
the Father shall not bear the iniquity of the Son and the son shall not bear the iniquity of the Father. Does that make sense? Okay, makes sense. And there's evidence for it. Right? So basically, what Jesus Christ was teaching was against thee even against the concept of original sin.
Because how can the son bear the iniquity of Adam if he doesn't even bear the iniquity of his father? Okay. And you have another example, when when the children were gathering around Jesus, he said, Do not forbid them. For of thine is the kingdom of heaven. These were children. They, you know, if they had original sin upon them, he wouldn't be able to say, of thine is the kingdom of heaven, because they would be stained by Original Sin.
What what he was saying is contrary to what we are being told by the church, his companions now those who knew him the best those who were around him, they witnessed his teachings, did they ever preach this, that Jesus died for the sins of the world? No. The way that the concept grew, was that Jesus Christ Himself taught accountability. I mean, if you if you read the if you read a red letter Bible, the Bible that shows you all of the the actual recorded words of Jesus in red, you will find that all that he taught was to keep the law and he condemned, he condemned anybody who practiced lawlessness.
With regard to salvation, he taught that if you want the kingdom of heaven, obey the laws, okay? Paul came along and abolished the laws, and established the concept of,
of just the atonement, established the concept of justification by faith.
So these were, this is part of the conflict between the teachings of Jesus, which was the law of the kingdom of God, and the teachings of Paul which abolished that.
Let's bring it back to the one who is in charge of everything who's running, maintaining sustaining this universe? Did he ever send the messenger, some of the greatest message that we know Abraham, Noah, Moses, we discuss what Jesus said, in the last and final messenger, Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon them all, that any of them at any time, preach, teach anything
of this, that we're talking about? No, but I will tell you what, what did happen. Every Prophet taught the oneness of God, the absolute necessity of keeping his law and personal accountability.
However, in every instance, I know of, at some point in time following the period of Revelation, that people found this a little bit too difficult, a little bit too confining. And you found some charismatic leader who would come along and give the people what they needed, basically, an easier path. The only problem is that the question arises, is this are these promises going to be there? When those people present themselves on the day of judgment? Look, we're being told to accept the concept of original sin, that we bear the stain of the sins of Adam, even though Jesus Christ Himself, endorse the teaching that no son will bear the iniquity of the Father. Okay. At the same
time, we are told that Jesus died for our sins, and yet, in I'm just going to quote again, I know you hate this, but Hosea six, six,
according to God, quote, I desire I desire, mercy, and not sacrifice, I desire mercy and not sacrifice, desire and not sacrifice. And then here, we're being told, but God sacrificed His only begotten child. Oh, wait a minute. You then turn around and ask, Well, why has anybody I'm sure, we've all questioned this at some time. Why?
ask, why did God have to sacrifice his quote, as according to the the Trinitarian faith, his quote, only begotten Son Why? The answer comes back because God needed and atoning sacrifice
I just have to say, that flies in the face of reason it goes against what Muslims believe, because of one word, need.
The word need, God needed a sacrifice. We, we as human beings we need, we need things. God doesn't need anything. He may have things that he wants, like he would like to see us be good people. He would like to see us serve and worship and but he doesn't need, there is nothing that we can do. There's nothing that we we can give God that he couldn't have, by his own volition.
then you ask, Well, why couldn't God have forgiven us without a sacrifice?
Is God not big enough to do that?
I guess it comes down to your concept of God. And each person has to just ask them selves, what makes what makes sense? Does it? Does it make more sense to trust anonymous Gods gospels? Which conflict in their stories, conflict in their evidence? Etc, etc? Or does it make more sense to
follow the, you know, the train of logic that I'm that I'm talking about? I mean, I just to go back, we wouldn't accept someone trying to bring a case forward in court. And there's no witnesses that we can examine. So this is just illogical that we would accept something and blindly believe it even though we don't know how to witness or recover that point. We're almost running out of time. I want to now
address this issue of true salvation, because some people who are sincere, and that's who we're reaching out to, we want the sincere people who have question this, and that's all they knew. But they know that, you know, this doesn't make sense. I'm not going to be responsible for something someone did you know, Adam, pick the apple, and now it's on me, and I gotta force myself to believe something that just does not make sense. So tell us tell the viewers, what is
the correct constant for salvation?
Talk to us? Well,
you know, to begin with, I would say that whenever you see something that doesn't make sense, you have to run from it. I do have to make one final point. And that is that we're told that the first step to salvation in Christianity is to recognize that the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ, okay, this is the theme of this talk. But this involves two things, involves the concept of original sin and the atoning sacrifice. In one case, we're told that it doesn't matter if you believe in the other case, we're told it only matters if you believe let me give you an example.
Are we as all human beings, according to Christianity? Do we all have the stain of original sin upon us? The answer is yes. Whether you believe or not, whether you believe or not, you're affected by Original Sin.
Okay? can we achieve salvation?
Just through the atoning sacrifice of Jesus, even if we don't believe in it? No, you have to believe it. If you believe in it, then you'll be saved. If you don't believe in it, you won't be saved. Wait a minute, was it an atoning sacrifice or not? If it was an atoning sacrifice, it doesn't matter whether you believe or not, if it wasn't an atoning sacrifice, it doesn't matter either way.
To come back to the question, what is true salvation? You know, I just think, I think everybody out there who has a sound mind and a sound heart, and who hasn't been brainwashed to believe something else knows the answer to that true salvation is to turn to your Creator with an open heart, to repent for your sins, to declare true belief, and then to walk in the path of the servitude and worship of him as he prescribes for us. That is true salvation. And you just have got to take it in those steps. I mean, number one, you have to recognize him, not as other people tell you to recognize him but as he actually is, as one, one God, one creator. You have to you have to repent
for the sins that you have made through a priest, through a minister through an Imam know, through your heart, directly to your God. Okay, because it's between you and him. There's no intermediary. And then you have to declare true faith. You have to declare, if you're sincere, you have to declare that you will
accept his religion and adhere to it.
And that's what it takes.
Dr. Brown we can go on and on and people can you have a chapter about the crucifixion in Miss God in misguided
You can visit Dr. Brown at level truth, calm, level truth calm and in the misguided he has a whole chapter on the crucifixion. And he's got a ton of other great stuff in here. You can look into his books and we hope inshallah to have you back again. Hope to be here again. Thanks. Thanks very much. Thank you very much. And I like to thank everyone for sitting through another episode of the Dean's show. Now, just to recap, as our guest, Dr. Brown had mentioned, Jesus peace be upon him he never taught. He never taught this concept that he came to die for your sins. His companions never taught this and most of all, the one who has the attribute of being the just the Creator of the heavens and
the earth, He didn't attach the stigma to you. You are born in original goodness, if you make a mistake, we all do. We're human beings. Turn to the crater alone and ask Him to forgive you. He is the most forgiving, the most loving, he will forgive you. Now with that said, we're going to cut out and we'll see you next time on another episode of the deen show. Until then, uh, Salaam Alaikum. Peace be unto you. The DVDs for Dawa is Allah has said in the Quran in surah now 16 125 Voodoo Isla Isabela, bookable hypnotic invite all to the way of your Lord with wisdom beautiful preaching and reason with them in ways that are best and this is a great opportunity for you to take up the
obligation take up the call his allies told you to do and share this beautiful message with the world Islam submission to the One God see what everyone's talking about. You find one contradiction it can't be from God.
But the rational idea the rational explanation is you do your best give up for spring guidance. I will never give up spreading this message and hope that you take the necessary steps you don't know if you're gonna live till tomorrow.
So you got to find that urgency to do the right thing right now.
That you believe in Jesus you have stepped outside of Islam you cannot be a Muslim as a tenant are afraid to
eat comb, eat lay. Everybody sleep.
I arrived and ask a lot of thinking me. Oh la you see. Oh la you know all the scenes I do. A turn to you to forgive my sins.
runs away. Ola guide me