Channel: The Deen Show
Bismillah Alhamdulillah wa salam aleikum, greetings, peace. Now my next guest coming up, he briefly became an atheist which resulted in a deep depression. He considered himself a nihilist just chasing the dunya material world material things. He questioned the meaning of life. He read the Bible, a lot of philosophy now get this during a plane journey. He sat next to Lo and behold, a Muslim who was praying, how's he praying is probably praying in his seat. And shamefully he became very worried. He, he became very worried, like, you know, most people because they're programmed by the media, and he was worried that maybe some terrorist situation might occur. But they started
speaking, they started talking and it gave him a lot of doubt. He was educating him he was sharing with him answering his questions. And he went on to investigate the things that he was told. And lo Behold, after about a month, he ended up taking his Shahada. So what was he told? What's the shahada that what were those things they were discussing and what was the conclusion after he investigated what are the points that he investigated all this and more with James Doolin. Here to share his story on the deen show. This is
this is the
salam aleikum. James. Welcome Salam. How you doing my brother? I'm very good. How are you? Isn't that amazing? Now, it's like, you ended up taking a shahada to all this journey. And now you got a new brother from the 2 billion Muslims out there. You're part of this extended global international family Alhamdulillah a brother.
You feel very a piece of the city rather. So I'm very happy that.
So was that accurate? So tell us people are wondering like, what was the conversation like that you had to describe that feeling before you had the conversation of your being? You're like, Okay, this is a Muslim. He's praying and now he might be involved in some terrorist activity. What's going through your mind there? Yeah. So it was actually strange that often because I was on my girlfriend and her twin sister, and their Bulgarian so we were going over to the and
normally we select three children, but this one time, the seats we went sat next to each other. And I'm sitting next to this Muslim river. And I see him I didn't know what he was doing at the time. But he had the Quran Arabic, he's praying, he is, you know, rocking back and forward and is in the sea. And he's making dua, and I wasn't so much devastated worrying. It was when he had the bag, and I've seen Tasbeeh come back. And they were like, wioth disciplinas bag. So I'm wondering, Where's that, you know, leading to? And I already knew a little bit about Islam, but then you're referring to me worrying was
when he started making prayer, because I had a Muslim I worked with and he was explaining how no images, no idols.
And he had like a photo and I still not sure what the photo was, but it was
a guy he must be like a mentor or something Muslim bro. And he had in the Quran. So I'm thinking this way to the back. And I'm wondering the four or maybe, you know, so I started worrying. And I'm pretty sure that he clicked on I was worrying. I was like Saturday in him the whole time and the chair looking.
And then I got the chair to go to the toilet. And as I was going to the toilet, sorry, we're close and the flight attendant, this in I was looking at him and I was like worried I was like behind him. And the flight attendant said to me, Oh, don't worry, brother. He's just praying. And I said, Yeah, and then I've opened the door. And as an open the door saw like, you know, the crack in the door that you can see through like when
I've looked through the door and flattened
them and I've gone on, you know, I was embarrassed and very shameful and then caught a toilet. He said, Yeah, what were you just praying? And I sat next to her brother embarrassed. And I'm like, I'm so sorry. I don't know. Like, I you know, I thought I should know. And obviously I'm following the Western media stereotype for it. And but one thing that brought me closer again was his conduct. He was very,
I said sorry, and I was expecting to kind of like brushed me off. But he was very open very, oh, don't worry, it doesn't matter. And then after that, he started calming me down. And then after this, we just got to normal discussion about where you're from where he's from.
And then after that, I started asking about Ramadan. And this is when the conversation got deeper.
And that's nothing new. I mean, we've had a lot of cases where people have like just been writing in something in Arabic some calligraphy
reading the Quran are saying, inshallah allah God, God willing, God is the greatest, like Hallelujah. And then people have actually like panicked. And some Muslims actually got kicked off the plane because of that. So this is a really, I mean, you were actually experiencing that you thought that this guy might be a terrorist trying to do something fishy here. Yeah, and especially even like now, now I'm Muslim. If I say Allahu Akbar, in front of my friends, some of them work or wherever, they'll look at me a bit strange, because they understand that just means God is the greatest, they'll think it's got this negative connotation that we see in the media. And they think
it's like some wild sham or something like you're probably familiar. And,
you know, try to explain to them.
So you were really I mean, like most people, most of us, even myself, like in early years, I mean, you don't know much. But you know, what, you've been kind of just programmed to kind of think sometimes you're not even paying attention to just coming in, and then you just like knee jerk reaction. So you got affected by a lot of the media propaganda against Islam. Yeah, if we, if it's like, further back in the timeline, when I remember when, I'm not sure many years ago, this would have been maybe almost 19, from maybe seven, eight years ago. I remember, like vehemently being against Islam. Like, when I was younger, I wanted to join the Royal Marines at one period. And part
of that was because we had the Manchester bombing in England. And
at the time, I thought not because there was a lot of terrorist attacks in Europe. And I'm thinking, like, you know, just attribute attributes in it to Islam, rather than obviously, now. It gives me a lot of patience. Now, if I'm speaking with non Muslims, and they start asking me questions about Islam, and I can see, they're already judging. It gives me more patience, because I know not to be
impatient with them. Because they've you know how I was before.
So tell us a little bit more about the conversation. That's what was what was his name? The brother's name. Do you remember the recall? His name is Adam. Yeah. He said, the other must have the Prophet. And then I was like, Oh, that's great. And
after purchase these candles, he's always very smile, you know, following the sun smiling.
Very often speaking, we started speaking at the time, I'd already read the Bible, and I believe the Creator. But I didn't, because of the contradictions in the Bible. And these were things that started going down the path of sort of what you'd call more like a Unitarian, like I believed, Jesus was a prophet of gods, but I didn't believe that he was literally gods. And so I started explaining to him my beliefs. And then after that, he started to say, I was very close to Islam. And and he said, he said, Why, why you've never looked into Islam, like properly. And I said, I don't know. I said, the only thing I'm not too familiar, I said, I knew there was like, some pillars of faith. And
he explained the pillars of faith.
The only thing I wasn't familiar with, which is the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him. I wasn't familiar with his life. So this was what stopped me from becoming a muslim at the time.
Yeah, for our audience. I mean, when we talked about the articles, the six articles of faith belief in one God belief in the angels, this what he was going over, belief in the messengers, belief in the books, the divine books that revealed belief in the Day of Judgment and divine Deus decree predestination, this is the kind of things that he was going over with you. Yeah, these are all all different things. He's going over, and I'm agreeing with all of them. And as I'm agreeing, he's smiling, saying brewery, say in a seniority close to Islam now, and I'm starting to second guess myself and fit. At the time, I made a promise to set a promise when I get off the plane, I will buy
a chrome reader
to further my knowledge from the standard.
Now before that, before you even got to the point where you were questioning the meaning of life, you talk about that you are a nihilist? Yeah, very nihilistic. When I was maybe like four or five years ago,
I sort of put on a lot of weight. At the time, I've always been competing mixed martial arts and other things. And at the time, I put on a lot of weight become very nihilistic. And I remember, the one of the worst points was I remember just being outside work one time, just sit on a motorbike, and just, I'm looking at, it was a guy from night shift. Remember, he's going through the day shift, he's going, you know, as we change over, and I'm seeing the same is the same guy that I'm seeing every day when I'm going outside? And I'm looking at him again, thinking, this what we're doing every day, I'm thinking, what's the point? Why, why even bother, like, you know, and become very
nihilistic about life thinking. If, if there's no point of being there, why, you know, why don't I do X Y, Zed, you know, like, all these negative things.
And then you went on so you were, what you brought up was your family what what kind of background would your family have, were they you're obviously from the United Kingdom from from London.
I'm from Warrington, it's in between Liverpool and Manchester, Liverpool and Manchester. So you're from the UK?
Yeah. What was your family background? What kind of did they practice any religion where they were they?
It's like not really. So obviously they'll come to it from sort of like a sign like I heard you speaking of sabar, like scientism, like that sort of anger, where they believe in evolution.
Maybe more did say like agnostic if you ask them, because they just don't really think about it. Like many people in the UK and England, like if, if I speak about Islam, they'll say, Oh, so you don't believe in science, which obviously, is not true. But they just think it counteracts you know, like, it's not the two don't coincide together.
So do you see? Do you see more? I mean, were you at that point? Like, what how did you go more towards atheism? Then how did you end up getting drawn into that, and you said, that was
I just sort of grown up sort of in that way thinking. So I was always,
I was always kind of in that way of thinking where religions you know, it's like to control the masses. It's not something to be taken seriously in this ring. My mum and dad ever supports me about the negative, because they're both like very open with people. It was just the, that was kind of like the train of thinking growing up. Like it wasn't, you weren't spoken to in school seriously about religion, or any of these other things. So it was only when, you know, you kind of go out drinking all the time, your friends, you're enjoying life. And then after that, you know, and you're chasing the dunya. And I see him on court, like is very relatable where it said, when chasing the
dunya is like saltwater. When you drink it, you become more firstly, and this is kind of like the perspective I have at the time I was enjoying life. But as I'm doing more and more drinking more party and and things, I'm just not happy with life, like second guessing myself.
So even though some people might think like, Okay, you're able to party, you're able to drink, you're able to indulge in all your desires. Are you telling us that you're still not happy? What's that feeling? Like? Yeah, just an emptiness, you know, just the emptiness in your heart. And it's hard to explain, I know a lot of depressed people who are will have spoken to before, they'll understand the same thing. And sometimes it can be hard when you become a Muslim, because because we have that piece we want to, you know, if someone tells me like they're depressed now, I want to give them all the information on Islam, because I know that it's like the cure, but unless that, you
know, like, you can learn information in one day.
And how long did you actually from there? Did you go on? So from there, you went on to read the Bible? Yeah, read the Bible.
A lot of the Old Testament stuff, I sort of understood more, it was more when the cracks started appearing when it comes to the New Testament.
Because you can see the clear difference in writing style. So the Old Testament, obviously, it's not like an offered biography, sort of like the New Testament is, and in the New Testament, is very like a forest very preachy.
No disrespect to any of the Christian brothers out there. But I'm interested in and then after that, I'm looking out for the contradictions. And I'm seeing the verses rather, that weren't previously the
that the Nicene council that
the early church fathers, they didn't believe in a trinity, that, you know, they were very monotheistic. And then I think it was after the first 300 years, the Nicene Council, it was like a doctrine. So this made me start to question Christianity to where, at the time I'm thinking more like this Unitarian Christian, where Jesus was a prophet of God that are more like monotheistic in that sense.
But I'm also thinking I remember as well sorry, that
I remember the biggest problem of that is thinking that if this is the truth, if this is God's revelation, I'm thinking, how can it be for such a small, you know, like, there's not many, you don't meet many Unitarian Christians on the planet? So I'm thinking, if this is God's revelation, how can it be corrupted or the Bible and these other revelations? And what else? How about like the, the concept of atonement of Jesus died for your sins? How did that fit with you or not fit with you? Yeah, at the time I didn't really think about it was only
you know, I started thinking about Jesus died for your sins. And I watched, I don't know, in England, we have a lot of debates in Speaker's Corner. It's a park in England. I'm not sure if you're familiar. Yeah.
I watched the Muslim debate in a Christian and he said, How is this just the most just mum could die of everybody else's sins? Like it's, if you think about it logically, it's not just as So this made me start to second guess that. And I remember there was a
There's another communist guy, I believe he debated Jordan Peterson. And I remember that sat with me a lot where he said to Jordan Peterson,
he said Christians are more atheistic than atheists. Because you believe God died. So it's like, there's an absence of gods, there's no rules. And he said that, that makes you more atheistic than atheists. And a lot more that just kind of like stuck with me like, like, there's true there's no and even praying before, like, I'm always praying to God. And and I remember
praying or Christian river one time, I say to Jesus, you know, peace be upon him, but it just doesn't logically fit that your prints were man, you know. So when you're praying, what would like your before Islam? What kind of typical prayer like how would you pray to God? You know, I pray a lot of the time on my knees still, when my hands are more like making dua, and
I would be if I were speaking, I'll be saying, you know, to the Father, not the not the son.
So to the Christians, fathers, like that's a law that the
God Almighty, the creator, this is the button then this is the main head of the Trinity for the Christian but for Muslims, just one no Trinity. Just one God, leave it alone. Don't add delete nothing, just pure images. Yeah, it was very hard to England about explaining. Islam, as I see, a lot of times I'll be explaining, and a lot of non Muslim English people who say, how can you believe in a man in the clouds? I'm saying, This isn't Christianity, you know, we don't believe in a father, the creator of the world, we don't give any images. And this is an explain why we fall into this hole, why we don't give him an image? Or is that kind of like the common concept of God Almighty,
the creator is they believe that like, he's some old man with kind of a beard and above the, in the cloud somewhere, and that's how they have an image of the creator. Yeah, maybe any sort of religion. I know, most English people only really come from sort of grandparents or great grandparents. So and it's more Christian based. They don't really speak with Muslims too much about I don't know why it's kind of like, two inclusive communities where they maybe need to speak more reach over to give knowledge, but a lot of English people probably won't stand by even if I say,
in Islam, we have Jesus. They shocked a lot of them that I didn't know that Jesus was. He believed Jesus was a prophet of God. And I remember one, one woman, and one time she was asking me a question. I think she was a Christian. And she was asking me about the mother, Mary. And I was explained to her that we have a whole story about
the Mother Mary, and she was shocked. She can't believe it.
So they don't know a lot. That's why it's so important. You know, education and sharing like this. This brother Adam did on the plane. And after you guys had a conversation after he shared some of the teachings of Islam with you, like what did you investigate? Like something? Obviously, it intrigued you, you left that conversation you want to investigate, like, describe to us how your investigate, how did you go ahead and conclude that indeed, Islam was the truth. So as soon as I got off the plane, I bought the Quran, that translation of the Quran I don't believe it was the best translation, but I read it anyway. And I know a lot of Muslims will say the same thing. Like, it's
night it was night and day for me, reading the Bible, reading the Quran, because the Quran, it just felt like, you know, you do feel like God's speaking directly to you, as opposed to
with the Bible, a lot of times it feels more like you're a fly on the wall. You're overlooking what somebody else's and the reason. Whereas when you're reading the Quran, a lot of times you're thinking of things and as you're thinking about things, he's giving you the answer, or he's speaking, and it was a lot more impactful, and a lot of the times as well about punishment and rewards for things. And I'm like, wow, that's very deep. But after I got off the plane, I went and looked at the life of the prophet, Muhammad peace be upon him. And I was trying to pick holes, I was thinking, you know, I'm still thinking, I'm sure you're going to find the hole in this. So I thought
there'll be a Home Story and watched a lot of debates about how,
how he was called the most trustworthy. Everyone, you know, when they would if someone went away on holiday or something, or they had to leave for a period of time, they would give the profit has their items, because they knew when they come in, so this was they and then I was trying to pick holes in why why would what would be, you know, like, if someone commits a crime, What's the motive? So I was thinking he must have, you know, like, got power, and that's why you wanted to do it. And then you find out that actually, you already had the power. And now him and all his family are being persecuted after so it was, you know, there wasn't any holes.
theologically looking at and thinking,
it has to be the prophet of God that can, you know, he can't find any holes in this. You know, I see sometimes the beats, and people will go on a tangent, like, you'll get atheists. And they'll say, oh, maybe the devil influence them. But you think if you're an atheist, you don't believe, you know, they're just being intellectually dishonest because they don't want to accept it. But it's really profound, like, yeah, why if you're an atheist, you say to the devil, inspired him, but you shouldn't even be believing in the devil, if you are so called atheists. And I like what you said. So you went back and you're trying to find trip them up, you're trying to see like, Okay, if he's an
impulse, a broad, and you're using just common sense, yeah, I can show you there'll be a whole. I remember as well. When I when I realized I was accepting Islam, I was still away on holiday. But I was like, stressing, like, you know, everyone thinks, if you accept the religion, if you accept, you know, you're very at peace straightaway. But I wasn't like that I was very stressed out thinking about, you know, having to tell family, friends,
all these things that I used to do that I'd have to give up.
So it was like stressing for two weeks, and I'm preparing to tell my girlfriend thinking maybe we'll split up at the time as well. And but no, you know, when, when something is set for you by Allah, he always finds so long as you trust in Him, He'll always find a way to help you out the situation. So that's what I found so far. Did you deal with funny, like, a lot of times what people do is they'll take certain verses of the Quran ayah and they'll misquote them, and they'll create doubt. Did you come across anything like this? And then yeah, yeah, yeah, I've
you know, a lot of the wall verses are the main ones that are taken out of context about you know, the disbelievers. So I already knew these things go into the Quran. So like, I was kind of trying to see what's the context of the verse before I prejudge that. And then when I'm looking at the context of the verse, I'm understanding, it's not, you know, if someone's a non Muslim in the head of verse, they obviously think that it means attack all of this believers, but obviously, it's a context of verse written at the time, you know,
and so then, not long after you ended up accepting Islam submission to the Creator, not the creation, what a month later. So, at the end of this holiday, I was sat in the I was sat alone with my girlfriend, it's explained to her but I'm very fortunate that they have the they are brought up in a Christian family and they have a Muslim friend a very pious Muslim system
work so they already knew a lot of the teachings of Islam so I sat down ready thinking that that was going to be a problem.
She accepted that that was going to be a no even sometimes she's asking me questions so I'm hoping inshallah maybe in the future
that's going to work out and then after, I mean, maybe one two weeks after that when I come back after this holiday
there's a group in
Lagos peace corner that dude our call the half hour, so I rang them because I didn't know any Muslims, you know, to take the shahada with at the time, I spoke with people in work, but I wasn't also comfortable with on a personal level, we've gone to them. So I spoke with them again. And they took me through the basics of Islam the pillars and after that I took shahada
so Subhanallah How long has it been now? Six months that was in June so yes, six months he's still fairly fairly new, huh? Yeah. When you only just maybe a couple months ago established getting the five prayers and you know, I'm trying to work through them one by one and hamdulillah beautiful Mashallah. How was the have have your family how are they do they know about it? Have they been receptive or have you not gotten quite there yet? Yeah, so I've told everyone except my dad but the only reason why I haven't saw my dad yet is because
whenever I've seen him it's not been in the right environment. So we've been with like a lot of people so like a family setting awesome. And so
I think Inshallah, that he's going to react, okay, but just in case I don't want to ruin the atmosphere like for everybody else if you know, they can see each other. So next week, I see him alone, actually. So I'm intending Inshallah, to speak of him. Hopefully our friends. Okay. All right.
I spoke with my mum as well, my mum. She was a little bit worried in the beginning, but like, she knows that I wouldn't do anything crazy. So and I remember when I shahada I just stay with normally I don't live my mum, but I was staying there for like, one week, two weeks so she could see me going through the process of praying every day trying to establish the prayers
or hamdulillah she's been okay. Any plans are getting married soon.
yeah that's that's the big plan martial law
not one because you know, people there's one Syrian program work and like me and my girlfriend we work together. So like he's like haram haram and I just accept this and overrun, I'm trying
not to lie, you took the greatest step forward, it all takes time everything you know has its place and I'm loving you did the most courageous thing the most beautiful thing is you went from submitting to your desires submitting to the creation to submitting to the One who created creation to create the heavens and earth at 100 Law you seeking knowledge and hamdulillah you're growing and inshallah May Allah God Almighty Allah preserve you and protect you, and put everything help you to get everything in order, because you were a big help to me when I become before becoming a muslim because I remember, I'm trying to find like reliable sources that I can trust. So I see in for us,
you know, like for the MMA community, as for us has videos, and then obviously, I'd watch the podcast review the first one. And then after that, I started going through all your podcasts like Muhammad jab. Sinead O'Connor if it was the other one, give me a lot of information. So just like on the camera, Amin Amin, amin hamdulillah was so elated happy to hear this wonderful story. And is there any advice that you give for people out there in similar situations, they a lot of times again, they get influenced by the media, all the hype, but they're listening. They're watching right now. Right? And they're in similar situation. They're battling you know, with depression, anxiety.
Yeah, and try to cover that up. They went towards atheism, or you know, a lack of religion, or they're battling with the whole Trinity thing, whatnot. What do you tell them? Yeah, I'd say speak to Muslims directly, you know, a lot of a lot of times now. We see like a lot of like, the intellectuals in the Western world. They're speaking about Islam, but they don't speak to Muslims, you know, like we see with Jordan Peterson. Lately speaking with Muhammad hijab, that was very beneficial. So speak directly to Muslims, I would say if they could speak with a dour group because the more you know, the more in such way of speaking to non Muslims given information, so you know,
people then go to the masjid.
But yeah, the most important thing is don't listen to you know, a lot of professors can go straight listening to non Muslims on Islam, but obviously, they don't all have the best intentions. Unfortunately. We can't thank you. It's very, very nice. Spend some time with you, James. Don't Lynn
and Sharla you
continue to tune in and we'll shall I'll be in touch. Thank you so much for February reflux. Amin we uk. Thank you. Salam, Aleikum. Tokat
give Salam to the to the Rhodes brothers and sisters watching salami. And thank you, thank you very much James. And for those people who are wondering like What's this book that he went and got right away afterwards is the Quran is right there is right there the Quran and we have a surprise for you. You can go ahead and pick it up. See what it says. And you get it for free. Go ahead, the deen show.com You can pick up your free copy and you still have some questions like give us a call one 806 62475 to one 806 Six to Islam. And continue to tune in here to the deen show. Subscribe if you haven't already hit that notification bell so you get updated with all the latest stories shows.
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