One Man Two Wives – A Look at the Basics, History, & Misconceptions of Polygamy
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They can see the text is clear what it says in the Bible. You can't go left or right. It's clear. We can teach our sons you know what we will like in a man what you know certain qualities that we were like in a man but we can't teach them how to be married, then you can be out running the world. But if you come home, and your home is hell,
you know, you're not going to have peace because we support things like the bachelor in the bachelorette where they go on 20 dates with 20 different people and make out 20 some different times with each. But then we shun police person who's in need. They're needy, therefore, out I'll tolerate it if she's
called it a pity. Oh, yeah. Oh, yes. Talk about that. I think that one of them will put down the list one of them. There's the emotional blackmail from the wife or threatening to take the children away or leaving half to one. Raise boys to be men. Okay, boys, raise boys.
Who are these?
Next, introduce themselves. I'm again, Coach Nadia from outstanding personal relationships. This is coach Fatima. I'm his wife.
And I have Coach nyla. I'm also his wife. He says something interesting there. I mean, you, you you, Chuck, you've chosen to take on a great responsibility. These are not your mistresses or your girlfriends, but they just introduce themselves as your wives. Absolutely. Absolutely. I feel you really had to be twice the man to participate into polygyny, especially in today's society. I mean, there's some countries that they see you as less than men if you don't have multiple families. Indeed, indeed, I mean, when we even go to the origins of monogamy, which is relatively new. The whole goal was just to allow you to have one legal person, a legal wife, that you will take care of
any children that comes from that. That didn't prohibit you from having as many concubines, mistresses, jumped down. So whatever you want to call them, boyfriends, all this stuff on the side. monogamy just has one person. So when we look at politicians are preachers like jesse jackson or Bill Clinton, they're practicing monogamy without issue. So you said they're practicing monogamy. Who are the men? You were mentioning those? Just some politicians? Yeah, I mean, we can go all the way because I would see we see that many people are practicing polygyny. But the legal form that's not accepted by the Creator, because you have I don't think there's many people that are clearly
practicing monogamy, they might do the legal version, meaning that they have one legal wife. But like you said, they're messing around, you know, with all these other women on the side. So they're practicing an illegal form of polygyny that's not accepted by the Creator. Right? Indeed. And that's that's our thing. Again, we're not anti monogamy at all, we're pro morals. And as part of that one of the forms of marriage and meaning that promos mean that we support marriage. Yeah. Which is the the crux of any society, any community, any nation indeed. And polygyny is a form that has so much wisdom in it, and a lot of has been lost in our conditioning. Yeah. So back to the basis of what I
was saying with because some people, for some people, they've been conditioned so much the knee jerk reaction is right away to say something vowed to think something bad. And to say something maybe that they start bullying and whatnot. So one,
you guys don't all share the same room? You live in separate houses. Correct, right? That's basic, let's go over some basics. You're not promoting for people to start being religious. You're just promoting, trying to educate people on this. So people start attacking people who are practicing what the Creator has legalized for them to for people to practice. So these are some of the basics that we can cover. Okay, good start. Well, I'm not gonna hog the mic. And that wouldn't be fair, because the other stereotype is that, well, the man just runs in women just don't have any brains. So let me pass that on to my wife.
So you understand what it's all about the basics. Now we're going over so people who just hearing this as a culture is a shock for many people. Right, right. Right. Well, just one thing, what what I mean, what hasn't put been put in when I said, shock? I want to take that back. Because there's so many shocking things immoral, shocking things that we've been so desensitized that people are just accepting everything. Right, right, right. Well, to get to your question, we don't live in the same home. But we have traveled together. And we've cooked in the same kitchen and interacted together with each other and we had a good time, we actually have a good time together. So it's something
that's doable, if everybody agrees. Now, with that being said, it's difficult for me to have my grown daughters in my kitchen, much less my co wife in my kitchen, because we all we share the common idea that we need to have our own space and we respect that. Now. I always joke and say, how big would the roof be? Are we talking 53,000 square feet? Are we talking 1400 square feet. Now that would change things though. If there's wings on a resume, and it's that big, well, then that's another conversation but what we're trying to do and what we
We really have done our work in, we want people to know that this is something that's doable. polygyny is not something here to hurt. Yeah, it's a social solution. It's interesting. It's interesting. Go ahead. What were you gonna say, Oh, we didn't let let people know how long were you married?
24 years. 24 years. So 25 in May and nine. So we've been in polygyny for nine years. Yeah, these are families. These are institutions now that you're we're one big family, one big family. We don't separate it. You know, and I know some do, but we don't practice that. They're our babies and our bonus babies alike. So and you see, like, several years back, you had a program that got popular was called Sister Wives. Have you heard of that? Yes, absolutely. Now, I think that was like one program. And then after that, then you had seeking a sister wife and a man with three wives you had, you know, it just seemed like the TLC that the network it was on. And people were interested, they
wanted to know they're watching it, because if there was such an outcry against it, of negativity, it would have canceled the show. But it seems like now they have a multiple
shows coming up. That are they've raised a lot of awareness regarding that issue, because people talk about, you know, legal or illegal and so on, and like that and legalizing it and working to do so which is fine. That's a great idea. There are organizations doing it. There are lawsuits filed on behalf of I don't want anyone locked up for polygyny, I don't know anyone that has been locked up or penalized or anything like that. For polygyny, the challenge is that when it gets attacked, the immoral things get promoted. But the moral things get attacked. So it's like things are in reverse now moral meaning that you're there to provide for your family to provide a structure. And due to
the moral decay in society. That's why we have so many single parent homes. That's why we had the rise in alcoholism and depression, suicide. Many things stem from the trauma that is caused in dysfunctional homes where abuse is going on even if a person doesn't recognize it as abuse. So I guess the question would be more, why would these women, you know, no one really wants to know why men want to participate in polygyny, you know, that's really not usually a question. But why would the women really want to participate? In polygyny? Why would that be an option they would participate in? Yeah, that's her God given right? Because people we think about the man, but no, but
now you're infringing on the woman's right and telling her what she can and can't do again, she's an adult, she's made a decision. And this is not something that now something new, it's something throughout history, we'll get to that, in the next point, showing that this is this is something that was a way of life for hundreds of hundreds of years 1000s it was something that was normal, and still today in many different countries. So it's not something that's immoral, it's moral. And it's sanctioned by the Creator, by God Almighty, exactly doesn't have the same issues and challenges that we currently have in society today, where you don't know who the father is, you know, the TV shows
I've gotten famous with, I'm not the father, you know, I'm saying it's really sad, that a child doesn't know that isn't because of the knee jerk reaction is, why can I have more than one husband, even biologically really wouldn't make sense, who's gonna be the father, and what women really want to take care of more than one house or even have the physical ability to do so. So, you know, that's when you relegate marriage to just simply sex versus an institution that is there to protect the family, continue life and provide morals and really create and develop leaders. Let me go back to you guys, whoever wants to address this. back to the basics. So we're still on the basics of you
guys not coming out, to want to call people to this, but you want people also to stop to get educated and stop bullying people now, who ended up practicing this way of life, again, that's sanctioned by by the Creator.
Right and help people also through your, through your, your relationship counseling to help people who are in this type of
a family structure to go ahead and have it run more peacefully and to help them deal with give them the tools to deal with the challenges that, you know. Right. Right. And because you see when I use the term bullying that people say they bully, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we we've had a lot of that happen where
any incoming wife or subsequent wife, second wife comes in,
you know, comes into the family or husband marries a second wife or subsequent wife. They're considered the homewrecker or not the real wife or just a person who doesn't have the same rights as the initial wife. And it's like it's a negative thing where it's like, Okay, well, she's hurt and she's in pain and, you know, someone did something to harm her, the initial wife. And then there are a couple of things you have questions about
I've had a subsequent wife, I came in second one. So it was things as though where it was, did you think about the first wives? feelings before you decided to marry her husband? And things as far as how people said this to you? Yes, yes, yes.
And it was to the point of that, and it was a number of things where you're like I say, you're considered home wreckers or someone that is destroying a family, or anything like that, like, the husband didn't have a decision to make. And that is a bad thing. Because when a person asked me, What did you think about the first wise fillings, I said, I never looked at as anything negative. So because I didn't look at it as anything negative, I couldn't see any pain or hurt, we have natural jealousies. Of course, that's just the way it is. But to have something where it feels like is something bad, or detrimental or demeaning. That wasn't something that came into my mind is getting
married to someone in a way that is actually permissible. Do you see an ironic that many of the people who throw out these terms like don't judge me, right? And they're indulge in all sorts of, you know, mischievous acts and sins and whatnot, and we're all sinners, we make mistakes. And the best of those who, you know, best of sinners are those who turn back to Allah and repent. But do you see it ironic that those people who use those kind of terms now they end up judging and bullying when it comes to this topic? Have you seen Have you seen?
You know, people, a lot of times just are just playing flat out hypocrites. So if a woman chooses to cover stuff, like my eyes are covered, like the beautiful Virgin Mary, one of the most righteous women ever walked the earth. Anytime you see, one of these made up pictures or statues, obviously, her covered properly, right? No one sees her as oppressed. So my wives imitate that, for example. Now they must be following some man, or Islam is forcing them to do something. But what happened to that choice that they had? You know what I'm saying? So absolutely, we see it. And again, we're talking about another form of marriage that existed for a long time, where when I was growing up
through high school back in the 90s, well, gay marriage was not a thing. But now they're supporting gay marriage, but initially and kind of secretly being against it. So we promote things that we don't affect us. But many times, it's really just done out of fear, people think that is going to happen to them, or they'll catch the polygyny, well gonna rub off or something like that. It's weird. The second part I want to get into is now getting into some history.
Getting into the this being a norm of history,
even getting into some of the Bible, showing that through history, this is something that was a norm. You have many of the biblical prophets, that are also the prophets in Islam, who practices. Can we talk about a little bit about that? Absolutely. Well, we were all raised Christian, before becoming Muslim. So we were very familiar with these stories, whether it be Moses, whether it be Abraham, with his wife, Sarah, and hedgerow Hagar, or I mean, they say Solomon, Solomon was supposed to be the the wisest man that ever lived. That's what's really promoted through Christianity. And he has 700 wives 300, concubines, according to the Bible. So it made me wonder, is he so wise, because
he's able to handle and deal with 700 different wives a day, they may there may be something to that, I don't know. Islam came in, he limited it to for up to four at one time. But every single prophet that I've seen the Bible, with the exception of Prophet Jesus, had multiple wives. And it big, you know, led me to kind of wonder, like, why, you know, why, why, and looking around the society is really just a part of nature of man, if you will, to want to take care of more because attracted to women, first of all, you know, there's a saying that says men are seduced by the eyes, where women are seduced by their ears, you know, so one thing is a part of just nature biologically.
I mean, we deal with a lot of people who are not Muslims. I mean, whether they are Hebrew Israelites, some Sephardic Jews, African spiritualists, they are attracted to what we do being open about it showing our family can function and we utilize again we let they know we're Muslim is obviously see what we utilize the rules and the structure that Islam puts in place for it, and many of them see the wisdom in it and they use that for their lives. Yeah. I like what you said Islam came to limit it now. Because it was something that was without restrictions. A man can marry however many but now Islam didn't come to reintroduce, it just came to limited. Absolutely to for
families, to we get to restrict it because again, as human beings, we tend to oppress each other. Yeah. So the more power you have, then the more you take away from others or the more you begin to oppress. So now you can have for extended families here if you want to call it or for however you want to force part of your tribe.
tribe, you can afford tribes, indeed and you'll be the bay.
They will have a indeed indeed. So we cover that
Very important. So you had Abraham, you had Solomon, you had many of the biblical prophets in there the actually the Muslim prophets, they were ones who submitted to the will of God, Islami submission to the will of God. So they all they practice this, the last and final messenger said the man, Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him and all of them. He also was someone who practices and his Sahaba. Right, his companions, right?
And the list goes on. And it reminds me just of a biblical story, and we talked about Abraham, and we look at his children, you know, Isaac, and Jacob, Jacob had 12 sons from what we know the Prophet Joseph apart the use of a license comes from, and one of the things that people many people don't know, at least in Christianity, when I was Christian, we didn't know the reason. Well, Prophet Jacob had four wives, and Prophet, Yusuf. And of course, his brother, his brother, who was named Benjamin, in the Bible, had different mothers. So they said that the jealousy from his siblings arise from his father loving him more, okay. And he says he had different mother, they, you know, kind of utilize
that kind of against each other, which again, goes to polygyny. But it goes to just normal stuff. Because there are different things that sibling rivalry, these things have had happiness, really a part of life, but you're seeing the wisdom of these prophets, who are the most righteous of all mankind whom God chose, to bring a message of truth, and to live a life of righteousness and to demonstrate it culminating again with the Prophet Muhammad peace, and let's move on. So the these, these are the greatest men to walk the earth. They practiced this, they didn't
practice any of morality. Again, they didn't have girlfriends mistresses. They had wives. And the only people as we see, is this correct that how this change happened is man. And specifically, if you talk about Christianity, the church,
they ended up changing this and prohibiting it. And then how Same thing with in the Jewish tradition, this was something else normally they end up the rabbis changed it. Right, right. I mean, that's happening now, where you have is clear throughout any people who follow scripture, just about the homosexuality example. All right. And I don't like to argue homosexuality, one way or the other one that deals from a religious perspective. And the reason being is a person may not believe in your scripture, they're going to their scripture, and kind of fizzles out, if you will. But when you just argue it on a pure biological sense, if you say, Hey, you know, what, if everybody did this,
that'd be if everybody practice homosexuality, nobody would be left. It's the extinction of human beings. Therefore, I can deduce from basic reasoning without religious reasoning, if you will, that is bad for us, it leads to our extinction, versus everybody got married. Okay, we know, that opens the door, our species will continue to exist. So the reason I say it is because today that's heavily promoted. And now you have churches and other institutions that are beginning to adopt that in an opposition to Scripture. Okay, again, and they can do whatever it is they choose to do. We all have a judgment, we all will be resurrected, we believe that strongly and firmly. But when you try when
you push something that's moral, you should kind of see just the example of everybody's life when you look at Prophet Jesus. I mean, he was preaching the truth and was more on calling people to the truth. And they tried to kill him. You know, so this is just a way of human beings. Sadly, yeah. You guys want to add anything?
Did did tell me so we covered that part. But it was interesting. You You had you had, depending where you're at where you're living, you get, you get affected, obviously, by the social pressure, group thing, culture, how people think how people act in the culture. Like here, for instance, people don't like being lied to. There was a Christian pastor and another Christian, they were talking about this subject, and I was just looking up and doing some research on it. And they were trying to put a spin on it, talking about how Actually, this wasn't something that was good and whatnot, the way they were putting it. Now the Christian This, again, the forum here is a Christian
forum, Muslims were not really a part of this discussion. And we'll put up some of the comments that the Christians were making. They were like, man, paraphrasing, these guys are Spin Doctors, they're lying. They're this. They're that because because they're because they're there. They're lying that they can see the text is clear what it says in the Bible. You can't go left or right. It's clear. You mentioned some examples. But this Christian pastor and another Christian, they were trying to put a spin on it. And the Christians, not the Muslims. Were calling them out. You can see some of these comments here. It was very interesting. You know, it's crazy, because I just put a post up
about about polygyny. And about an article that I read that tried to put a spin on it that talked about how negative it was. They talked about gay marriage and how it's legalized and things as far as that but then they were talking about how it doesn't look like polygyny would be illegal.
lized are those type of things because they put us they have some skewed information that made it seem like that the women are controlled by the men, that they're, that the men, the men who have the money and the power, take over all the women, that they control them. And the boys are uneducated, the men who can't afford so to speak, to take care of multiple women. They're the ones that's just shunned and kicked out or anything like they're kind of like a lion and a pride where it's like, it's a fight to the death and or you get kicked out of the pride. And now it's just as a man that controls everything. And I said, you know, that's really interesting, because it's not about me,
it's about a moral, like the moral compass. And I said that if polygyny was not ostracized in is an option more than being ostracized, then the moral compass would change, it'd be better for a community better for everybody else, not saying that everybody has to practice polygyny, just that if it was a viable, I mean, it is a viable option. But if it wasn't so shunned, you wouldn't have a lot of people hiding who are practicing polygyny, they wouldn't be people that wouldn't have a problem with it. But then you will see that people are trying to take care of their responsibility, because that's what it's about taking care of responsibility. I felt that monogamy was really pushed
to allow men of power to not really take care of the responsibilities of their desires. That's a really good point. Because we see now in history, when this actually happened, where we talked about the consistency of this practice, but then we see the church, the rabbi changing this. And then you see the Roman Empire, at one point where they legalize this, and they ended up having one wife, and they made it illegal, but then you can have as many concubines, and these are modern day mistresses. Can they be synonymous? Mistress concubines? sex? Yeah. interchangeable.
I mean, because it's a big responsibility. Now, people think this is a joy. It's a big, huge responsibility to do what you're doing. You know, it takes a man's man to step up and to take care of, you know, the families like you are, but it's easy to go ahead and just, you know, have some side chick on the side. Yeah, but that type of thing breeds the immorality of society. So whether it's prostitution, whether they are children that are just left alone, without any father around, I mean, look at my community, in the black community in particular, you look at single family households being out of control, you look at a government has been at war with black people for a
very long time, especially after the rise of black consciousness in the 60s, you had blaxploitation going on, you had drugs introduced, and he had mass incarceration, that affects us. And I come from a state that I really call Jim Crow north, because it locks up more black people per capita than any other state. And we're in the Midwest, you know, so communities are decimated by it one viable solution. And then this is if you can find a good man. See, the challenge is that one women already outnumber men to begin with. So now in the community that lacks good man to begin with something that's not abusive, there's not alcoholism, other abuse going on inside the home, and it's actually
a marriageable individual, the women already had a loss. So the onus really becomes on those who are responsible, again to become more than twice the man to restore peace, restore order, restore some harmony in the home, where now women can have the honorable title of life and operate as such without permission from anyone other than the Creator, who gives you rules and regulations with which to operate, operate by. So the idea here again, is educating the people. And for those people who will hush quiet, and not say anything scared when somebody is practicing a lifestyle that's displeasing to the Creator, and here versus someone who has a green light from the crater.
Don't believe there's such a thing today as slut shaming, slut shaming, which is kind of oxymoron because the Prophet alayhi salatu salam, let us know that if you have no shame, then do as you wish. Shame is supposed to be there to help us with our shyness with our modesty or if you have no shame, of being a slut, and promoting that and calling yourself a slut, and doing those types of things. Then morality, there's no, there's no moral thermometer or a thermostat anywhere, and what good if we're looking for good and peace and justice is going to come from such type of thinking. We take one example of the culture, let's say here, but then you have other Christians. For instance, in
Tanzania, you have john magufuli. I believe that's the president
They're where he's Christian is not Muslim, where he's calling men, because now they have a huge epidemic problem of women there who cannot get married. And it's not like the system here, let's say where the government takes care of you, if you don't have a man there to take care of you. And everything you need you, you're going to be just left alone. I mean, it's a very different environment. So he's giving incentives to men. This is the president of the country in Tanzania. Have you heard of this? Yeah. And he's Christian also. So I think you have what, like 30 million women 20 10 million men, something like that.
So what do we say about them?
We say we have a solution, right? The solution is at the age old, we don't need to take another census than anything else. We have to one, raise boys to be men, okay, boys, to raise boys to be men, because that's really where it starts. And that takes that takes responsibility, it takes a sense of justice takes a sense of morality, because those type of men one are attractive to begin with. And that attraction, who helps you attract the type of woman that you would like to build a family with, okay, and being able to do that one time, and you grow and expand and continue growing, because it's about knowing myself, and then growing myself, you can do it a second time or third
time or fourth time, and make a massive impact by duplicating that process. So we already have mini solutions in this particular solution dealing with marriage, which goes to the core of everything, you could be out running the world, but if you come home, and your home is hell,
you know, you're not going to have peace. So this is a major, major solution and society's crying for it. So why, why hide and go into that when this is something that's more we want to educate people equip and empower them broken home broken society. That's it. That's the formula. And that's what we have today. I mean, if you look, what are the numbers of Xena fornication of the morality? It's the highest? I mean, we've probably seen, right, it's skyrocketing. Just marital affairs and, and all sorts of corruption that's out there. And now why would you attack something that's actually a solution to that? Right. And that that's the thing too, when we talked about well, couple things
with the the women outnumbering the men, I mean, it can go into mortality rates as babies and all the others things like that. And I was talking to my daughter, and I said, you know what the crazy thing is this. It's like, okay, let's say every available or marriageable man married one woman, very one woman, there's so many women that are left, they're left without a companion, without the opportunity to have children legitimately, you know, things as far as that, and it's a breakdown of a community, because now they're, they're fatherless homes. There's not a person there to help boys become men. I mean, I know that there are women that say, you know, I can help my son do this. We as
women, we can teach our sons, you know, what we will like in a man what, you know, certain qualities that we were like in the men, but we can't teach them how to be men. We can't teach them how to do that. So when it comes to that, and when it comes to people shining something that is a benefit to society as a whole. It is, it is devastating. And so we are here to try to educate on that. And of course, we we get blowback, and everything like that. However, our thing is, we know what we're doing, we're strong, and what we're doing, we stand strong in it, and those who are looking to benefit from it, and who are looking to receive the help. We help them, it doesn't really matter
what, for the most part, it doesn't really matter what people think. If it's something negative, we're gonna still stand strong to our morals, and we're going to still stand strong to our, for our beliefs. So the Creator, God Almighty, Allah is not forcing you to implement, you don't have to, but don't bully people who have chosen this as a solution to them. And that leads me to my next point is we covered history, we covered some, some of the basics. And the third, the third point I wanted to cover it actually being a blessing for from for women. For many women. It's a blessing we see. We've seen many I've talked to many different moms have shared stories where there are so many women
coming to moms because women cannot get married today. So they're coming to the moms to advocate for them. And many of the moms are terrified because if they say anything, they got a position they got a job, their community is going to probably lose their position a job so they hush hush, and they can't speak on the topic. What do you think when when someone says how is this a blessing for women? How can this be a blessing for women
Well, for us personally, we try to make things easier on each other instead of harder. I think that oftentimes, in our community as Muslims, we don't open up the dialogue about polygyny, we've run from it. So our job is to not run from it. We're not running running from it. We're not telling everybody, they should do it. Because you do have to be built up a certain kind of way, as a man, like we were stating, in order to create that balance, because you're the man of your home. And in our, in our case, our separate homes, but we all have the same core values. And we really, as a community, since our community is hurting, we're Muslim, we have to open up the conversation. There
should be no reason why people fear polygyny, or entering it or, or we shouldn't have trouble with brothers having to officiate it and being running and being afraid, because it is the judgment that they're afraid of it is the Oh, you did you facilitated something that is not right. But if it's in if it is right, and it is Hillel in the eyes of Allah, then who are we to say what our opinion is on that. It's something he allows, and we need to shout that as loudly as possible. All of us. I haven't always been that way. Because I always make this joke. I'm over 40 now. But 20 year old me was very possessive and jealous. And I was like, I'm not sharing my husband, with anybody. I know.
He can have another way. But we're not doing that. But I made the decision without his input. And I'm sure it is something that even at that young age, you know of we were nine he was 19. I was 20. When we got married, I'm sure it ran crossed his mind. And it's interesting, because my own grandmother said to me, she said, you know, he's young, and he might not want to just be with you always. Now I was like, What are you talking about? Why not me? Why not me? Always? What do you mean? Because she was wiser. And she knew, even being a Christian woman, she knew that men had the desire for more than one woman to be in our life. She wasn't saying he would be promiscuous. She was
just saying, He's not different than any man I've met. And I've learned that. But I love that though. But but we try to within our family, we try to make it easy. So I think about the times that we've had some tragedies in our family, whether they be health, whether they be death, my co wife has been there for me, I've been there for her. And if I had not have had that it would have been difficult, more difficult on our husband to try to help care for both of us in those instances. So have you seen some of these feminist movements? I mean, you have
women out there who obviously a man should be kind merciful has a lot tells us the blueprint is there how a man should treat his wife on a footing of compassion and kindness. And you have also how a woman should be towards her husband, this is all laid out, it's clear in the crowd. And as soon as we don't have no guesswork, but then you have some times again, you have the social culture, you know, this pressure that comes in and then now you have this drive that because of this pressure, many women get stuck doing things that they would normally do, let's say they go away from, you know, the brute blueprint and next to you know, she's a you know, Mr. fraternity fraternity was
fertility window, she's old, and by herself, you have a lot of non Muslims, you know, examples, you read a lot of articles, women now who've accomplished so much, and they have the certificates all on the wall. And everything's,
you would think from a worldly perspective, you've accomplished now she's alone, she said, she sat she didn't establish this family. Now this can potentially be a solution for her right? Because she maybe can't have that one one. But now are the feminist movement coming in and saying, Let's help this will actually help women this can be that blessing to help fulfill the life of so many women who just cannot find you know, a husband, but potentially this door can open for her to come in to be in an extended family. Okay, a couple things.
That can be it can be however, as a solution is polygyny is, excuse me, polygyny is not just to save women from desperate circumstances. Many times you get people, sadly, Muslim women that try to use that, well. If this person is in need, they're needy. Therefore, out I'll tolerate it if she's single mom with all these children or a condition of widow and Yeah, right, right. So that's not required. It's not required, but it's absolutely a solution that goes into the many different levels of the wisdom in it. So whether it is a widow or single mom, just one of the levels but that's not the exactly there's several different levels. That again, beyond our understanding, the wisdom now
with feminists, traditional
I mean, their movement is not
a moral movement, if you will, and many of them operate from a position of trauma that still has yet to really be dealt with. So even dealing with a man or continuing a family many times with him is not even in agreement from that perspective. So what occurs is the person has two choices. You mentioned a super worldly, successful woman, at a certain age, she has a choice, okay, either, I'm going to find a man to get married. And when it comes to my community, particular one I'm talking about the black community with someone less than 30% of black women even get married to begin with a 30%. One in three gets married by the age of 30 period, which is a shame, but it goes into those
options and one Islamism solutions. And, of course, polygyny when it comes to form of marriage, however, that's not the only solution. But either she's gonna choose a moral option, which is polygyny, which is what we advocate, okay, which is marriage a moral option, that's what we're talking about, or an immoral option. So you will suffice to just have a man in your bed, okay to take care of your physical needs. All right, you don't need anything else from because you're super successful. But now, you're not going to go out, you don't have this other person that you can, you know, publicize or have the honor of being called a wife, but you'll still be getting used and
having your your precious body being used by someone else, because society ostracizes or look at the thing in a certain way. Whereas I was just at a meeting. And one of the guys next to me in this training, he's a gay guy, and he was just happily talking about his husband and everything else. So now it's out the closet and good. And then people are just like, okay, in the pastor, you're out there as a pastor as a part of the group. And he was really excited about the guy and everything else where it is a different world. Again, when you when you are judging it by morals, morals versus something that's immoral. And the way you kind of look at that on a human perspective is looking at
the result that it leads to. And we know it, do you get that kind of same positive vibe, like you just described when you talk about polygyny? Yeah, me personally, people don't come to me in a negative fashion, maybe because I'm a man. And I'm, I put very little weight on people's comments about something. I learned that once I become Muslim, because my majority of my family, you know, almost 100%. Of course, those are married the children that come from us, they're not Muslims. So when you do that, at 1617 years old, and you change your diet, you change your lifestyle, they've already ridiculed my ridicule meter and bovine excrement meter has been hit as a teenager. So if
somebody comes at me with something, then we can either have an intelligent dialogue, or we can go at it in debate, you know, intelligently in that fashion, but the women come speak more on that point.
Yeah.
It Yeah, I wasn't that strong. When
I didn't I was a people pleaser, I'm still kind of that way where, you know, it's for the greater good is for the betterment of whatever, less drama, no drama, I'm happy, I'm at peace. However, it got to the point where I wasn't at peace, I wasn't happy because I wasn't being true to me, I wasn't being true to myself, or I felt I had to hide something that I didn't feel that was actually wrong, because of fear of what other people had to say about it, or what other people had to think about, or what it got to the point where I say, you know,
they're not living my life. I'm not doing anything wrong, I'm not harming anyone in the process. So why am I caring so deeply about what they feel about what I'm doing with my life, and, you know, my family or anything like that, and it was when that light bulb or that switch changed. And I was able to confidently say, Well, this is my life, this is what I'm doing. I'm at peace, I'm happy. It took a minute. But people around me saw that. And they saw that confidence. And they saw that you know what, you know what she is for real about this. And they thought about it a little bit more, because knee jerk reaction, they're going to say whatever they want to say. But when you have when you put
them in their place, you don't have to be disrespectful with it. You just let them know, when I was able to do that with my family or my relatives, and let them know that this is what I do. This is what I practice. And you guys don't know the ins and outs to make a decision on what you're saying or what you're talking about. They had to sit in that they had to say, you know what, you know, you're right. I don't know. I have not given us a chance. I haven't looked at it from a different perspective. I was just being closed minded. And when they started to see it from my eyes, when they started to take the blinders off for whatever it was that was shooting them. They started to say,
you know what, that makes sense. She's happy. She's not being harmed. Everything Is Working out fine. Why do I have a problem with it? And so when they had to ask themselves, why do I have a problem with what she's doing? And they couldn't answer it in a positive way. They had to stop. It was just that simple. It was like okay, I'm either going to do this because I'm
bully, or I'm going to stop because it makes no sense to continue on with that. Science. You know, we're in a day of science and everybody, some people take it as a religion. When you have studies, do you know anything that you can share with us? There's been books written on this one in particular comes to mind the myth of monogamy. You have
a study of the called the Coolidge effect. I don't know if you know for this. So what what can you say when you when you because you say when you get into a debate, a dialogue on one end, we see a lot of emotion. Right. And then on the other end, we've listed history we've listed we can talk about science now we can look at solutions. When I when it comes into the realm of science and just the anatomy, the biology of man and woman and how this you know, indeed, I I don't remember the specific number, but I think it said nine women
or nine men, he said nine men, it would take nine men
maybe a year or two to repopulate the earth.
Okay, to repopulate the earth. I mean, just biologically speaking, it's nothing nine men, like nine men, yes, everybody, billions of people can come from them. Right. But here's the thing. And we know this in the amount of sperm stuff that isn't Jacqueline, I mean, it's part of the reproductive system. We are all only here because two people got excited. Alright, two people got excited. And part of the creation process. We kind of came through that, but little known to many women, especially Muslim women. I've read a quote where a woman said, you know, my husband came to me said, you know, you're a 10, I don't see the need for you know, three. Otherwise, I'm like, well, maybe
you don't know the nature of man. Because if you're a 10, which is fine, you could be a 10 he'll still want three more tins. Notice that nothing's gonna satisfy us, except dirt. You know, when we are buried when we when we pass that's not being greedy or selfish. That's just kind of what it is. So, biologically speaking, every Muslim man I spoke with every man in general, their ears perk up when we talk about polygyny, or why they hear wives, they're like, what? So let's talk a little bit more about that. Or the Muslim guy. He may be scared too, because sometimes, there are several different reasons men don't do it. Who are qualified to marry. One is the intimidation, the
emotional blackmail from a spouse. The threatening these were the reasons why he wouldn't he would not do it. Yes. You know, because there's the emotional blackmail from a wife or threatening to take the children away or leaving you see, it's one thing as a man to be able to, you have to protect and provide for your family. So usually protect from the outside. There's a different dynamic when that threat comes from the inside. Okay, so that that's kind of emotionally manipulating slower, you know, it is and sadly it does happen. Many times is empty threats, if it's a good man, but sometimes it does happen. A gentleman just reached out to us, let us know his wife conjured up an argument
about domestic abuse got a restraining order against him took the case, he hasn't seen it for two months, because it served him because he talked about he didn't even marry. Now he because he discussed polygyny, and was serious about getting married again. So she fabricated all these. That's what he said. So if that is true, then he says she did that in order to get leverage with children when it goes to court. That Oh, why this domestic talked about because he's also marrying another woman. You know, so that's how emotional blackmail is. That's one of the major things I know doctors, we know people who are financially able to have the time successful businesses, and they're
married to one woman only out of that particular fear. And of course, the fear from society, when it comes to being ostracized, there are those who just simply can't afford it. But that doesn't mean they still don't desire a warning. We know that men are not like the women, you know, and strengthen security what women are attracted to. So you can take a person, let's say, a Jeff Bezos right the largest divorce settlement history, hundreds of billions of dollars ex wives, you think a man like this could probably marry and take care of for women? You know, peacefully, fairly and everything else? Right? So when we look at the the money that goes along with it, but do you think he has more
than one woman? You know, I don't know. Personally, I'm not gonna put it out there. But I'm just saying, you know, how many women would you ask, Hey, you know what, you've married this man. That is, you know, he'll have a home for you have a vehicle for you. Yeah, your own bank account, you have this you take care of, so on and so forth. But you know, he has two other wives. You know, many women, and I've asked him before I said, My relatives, oh, would you marry Dr. Such and such that you really adore because of his cars? And he's a little? Yeah. Well, okay. That's interesting, because, you know, that's what people are talking bad about, but you're talking about Marian, she
would consider that a non Muslim. Did anybody like manipulate her or No, no. Virtual abuse? No, not at all. Because again, that that you have to make a stereotype that is negative on a person or a thing, in order to demean it or dehumanize it? Yeah. So when you're talking about polygyny, one of the main fears that is going to happen to you is like your husband or man never thought about marrying more than one wife, especially if he knows that in Islam. Yeah, you'll think about it but acting on it. That's slim to none, very few even do it to begin with. And then most of them only have two wives. I have two wives. I don't have an interest in more but I'm open to it.
But I'm not looking for I'm not pursuing it, you know, but because I want things to be in a certain place and the different goals that we have as a family now, I didn't always start out that my wife was saying, Oh, hey, we married 15 years. You think about man, other wife? Go ahead. That really? No, I mean, you know, so those fears, and those things are real. And they really hold and build resentment. Yeah. Now we know most marriages fail anyway. Period, monogamous polygynous. Most of them fail anyway. Because you're not working. You know, there's that disrespect, that lack of appreciation. And there's that resentment that grows and builds. So we find that many marriages
monogamous, more forcefully monogamous, if you will, because the wife or the husband is choosing to be held back by his wife's opinions or feelings or emotions break apart anyway. So emotionally, it becomes sad. That was the next thing I wanted to get into. But it's interesting you mentioned because we said consenting adults, people don't. And this modern culture, I have a problem when the young lady when she goes, and let's say she does something of having boyfriends. No one's saying she was manipulated, manipulated into having, let's say so many different boyfriends and sexual partners. But as soon as let's say she now gets herself together, and she says, No, I want a
husband. I don't want to be, you know, having sugar and I don't want to be some mistress. Well, actually, this could be a fourth sheet. It's a legit, you know, a man who's taking care of her as a wife. But going back to some comp comment, what are some of the common arguments that you've heard men abuse it? They can't be just, you know, what, those are a couple. What do you hear when you say that? Because you mentioned that most of the time. You have monogamous or one man one wife relationships, you're already against the odds. 50% or more to fail? Yeah, exactly. More than 50%. Now, that's that's actually a true statement. Yeah. Okay. Because men do abuse. Okay, so the
likelihood of a marriage succeeding period monogamy, polygyny, where Otherwise, it will fail. You have to work on it. So when someone says, oh, that person is not qualified, because they're just gonna be abusive, or something like that. That's possibly true. But however, why would you want to hold on to a man that's being abusive, even in monogamy? polygyny shouldn't be the problem that caused you to leave that person. Because if they're already not qualified with you, you probably should either work on it to try to fix and rectify the situation, or find a better situation, you know. So these are knee jerk reactions in Islam, because we know that the two conditions for a man
to do so is fairness, and time and money. Okay, and time and money, those things are measurable. It's not emotional fairness or anything like that. So those become the things that he can't do it anyway, because he's poor.
Maybe there's some truth to it. Maybe not. You know, many times we live in luxury, if you're if a person is the people that are watching this right now, watching you via the internet or watching the via TV, there's a lot that goes into that. And there's a lot you're paying for that. So we're living in luxury, I'm speaking from a position of privilege, where most of the world over 60%, the world makes less than $2 a day. Okay, so port can be relative, what we're looking at is extremely rich, in the West, where you go to some countries and again, 2345 $10 a day, that really couldn't get you anything here. So it really depends. But at the same time, like you mentioned before, I think was
Tanzania, you speaking of where, if they don't have a man, that's it, you're homeless, you're on the street, you're begging you relegate to prostitution, and a number of different things. So to have wealth, there doesn't take much versus it takes manpower takes physical stuff. I mean, we're raising children. So because we have a dozen children, I have 10 biological children, why Fatima we have seven, four daughters, three sons, and we have three sons, and two bonus children, a son and a daughter, right? That's 12. So as I'm looking at my boys, I'm trying to raise my sons up to be strong enough men to have multiple wives to take care of this problem. Now, they're handsome, and
they're smart, and all of this kind of stuff. But they still need to be able to expand that responsibility to get things done. And now that goes into even one of my daughters expressed interest in polygyny, and she doesn't want to be a first wife. She doesn't even want to be a first wife. She's like, she's, well. This is our youngest daughter, she's, she's, she's pretty funny. She said she wants to be a first wife, but he must have four wives. So she doesn't have to deal with him all the time. She wants him, you know, to share the time so she can still have her independence, so to speak. So at the the wise old age of 17. She's kind of figured it out when some of us older
people are still kind of grappling with the social solution. And she isn't. She sees what it is for what it is, and understands the value in that. And I'm like, well, we must be doing something right at this point to relay that to her. But again, she's just looking at, at the world she's in because we support things like the bachelor in the bachelorette, where they go on 20 dates with 20 different people and make out 20 some different times with each. But then we shun polygyny. So we have that society is normalized.
This dating multiple people show or the real world where you sleep around and you have no rights either way, but they will not normalize polygyny, something that has been normal for centuries upon centuries. Like this isn't another trick on woman. Oh, yeah, the women are the ones who are suffering at the end, if you just said they have all these reality shows how they disperse and date person, but she's left at the end with nobody. Yeah, right. There's no security, not even a rose. Yeah, at the end of it.
And the emotion that comes from it, it's like you're tearing, you're dealing with real people, real emotions. And so to play around with that it, it breaks people, it tears them up. And then that's, that's carried on to another relationship or into your household and to your children. And it creates this perpetual cycle of pain, hurt, destruction, things like that. And so is that's the part where it's not about polygyny being the only form or anything like that, it's about it being Where is where people understand that it is an option and its benefit is not something that is detrimental to a society is a benefit to society. Well, that goes under let's go back to add, because we talked
about the blessings. many blessings there for women, like you just mentioned, that this would fall in line, let's say someone has a career, for instance, right? they pursued a diploma. They don't want to be, let's say, a full time with their husband talk about this. And this, this suits them. They don't want to. They don't want to be cooking all the time. They don't want exactly this is exactly right. A woman time. This is exactly what our daughter said, it's like you were a fly on the wall in the house. She said, I want to have my own career. And I want him to be able to go to his other wives house houses, I have my time with him. He can have his time.
And but we we have another daughter who's right off the jump. She's like, well, that's not what I want. I kind of want to have my husband to myself. So it's a social solution for the women that do want to participate in it. But we're in polygyny. But we're not telling our daughter that wants her just time all the time with her husband to enter polygyny, because right now in her mind, she's going that's not something I want. We celebrate that. But then we also celebrate the fact that our youngest daughter saying that's something that I want, and I want it to be known straight out. I think oftentimes polygyny fails, because people are not doing the personal development that it takes
that is ongoing. Because sometimes people go Oh, well, Coach Fatma coach, another counselor, what do I do? And they think it's a quick fix thing. And it is indeed not that. Imagine if we were if we because we're supposed to be emulating the best of men, the best of women. And let's say for the women looking at the mothers of the believers, would they be champion? What today? Some Muslims, unfortunately, are falling into going to certain festivals, events that are clearly against the deen. But now how would the mothers of the believers, you know, who were a part of this? This was their lifestyle? What would they be saying today? And are we taking them more as an example? Or are
we taking more of the example from the Kardashian show? Right? Right. And that's the thing too, when we talk about, okay, so who is your role model, you know, but that it goes back to morality, it goes back to the morals you have the the age of Instagram and social media and do it for the likes, and these things like that. And it's, you have girls taken off their clothes for the likes, you have girls, you know, showing off their bodies for the likes, instead of an hour to talk to my daughter about. I said, it's crazy because we as we were growing up, or as girls were very smart, you know, it's about to school and books and learning things. So then we start liking on a boy. And then we
become dumb, you know, and then not to be negative about it, but it's like, you're doing so much for this person trying to vie for this person's attention. And you stop doing the things that is, you know, best for you, you stop doing the things that as best as you best for you, because you're too busy wondering if this person like me if this person, you know, accepts me or anything like that. So you know, so now we're trying to be that example though. We're trying to be the example to say you know what,
you really have to think what it is you want out of your life, you know, and Is that good? Is that good around the board? Is it good for you? Is it good for your family? Is it good for and I have my three things I say is it good for my
Dean, you know, was my way of life my religion? Is it good for my life? For my mentality? For my sanity? Is it good for my hereafter? If I can answer that positive with a yes, then that's, that's where I go. And that's how I that's how I teach, you know, my children as well, that if that's what it is because it's about morals, it still goes back to morals. And I think it was I was gonna say,
I think it was one or tofik children, I think it was him. years ago, I was listening to him. And I think he has stated the amount he calculated the amount of time that the prophet SAW some because you mentioned that how sometimes you can just be having your world revolve around this individual. You become very possessive jealous. And now it's like you're almost like worshipping this human being, instead of taking this as a mean, for me to get to gender law is the one I wish but now, it's puts a barrier between you and your credit, your excessive jealousy and excessive love. But now when you look at the profit, so some when he when you divide up the homes that he had, I think he came
down to was like, was it two days a month? Yeah. If you didn't do the math to possibly three if they weren't on expeditions or the growth? Right. Yeah. So when you when you look at that, and then there's another I think this was mostly monk who had mentioned, I believe it was him that we also have this notion to come out and say, Well, he did it because this political reason he did it for that. Yeah, there was some wisdom behind certain marriages. But at the end, you know, it's not always the case like that. Exactly. We don't need to we, we don't need to justify polygyny, because the default in Islam is to, okay. The exception the general is is polygyny. Okay, and that's how
it's been understood. This is I mean, when you see tests here, all the way back for centuries, I mean, the default is at least to two or three, or four. And so to Lisa, were a lot out of that, you know, maybe two or three or four. Okay, but if you fear you can't be just or be fair, then one. And obviously, there's a general then there's the exception, which one is more, What's more is the general, not the exception, where today things are reversed, and then reversed, not just with the understanding of our Deen. But it's clear. That is the understanding of the Quran. Because we're dealing with I mean, genocide across the country, we're dealing with gennaker upside across the
world, we have concentration camps going up, we have families being destroyed, we have now the norm being one versus the wisdom of what Allah says when he talks about two or three or four, say the challenge is that one of the main reasons is not going to be pushed, is that because it requires men to be more? Alright, and men are currently in charge of the different laws and in societies and stuff like that. So if this is going to require you to be more and be accountable and responsible, that's, that's shunned upon, they don't want to be because just look at the meat too. It's too fun. You can be fun, do whatever it do whatever it is, you want to do with no repercussions. And now
we've seen we should just look at the meat tumor, how many of these, you know, top up around a lot of celebrities or people anchors, news hosts, all these are just coming out and how many scandals? Absolutely now? So what why would they want to step up and be real men? Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, it costs them more and growing and integrity and it shifts the balance of power. Because now if you have more women just like in the days of many different kings and palaces and people of power, they're attracted to more people who provide them that security and safety. Alright versus the flamboyant. Just throw some money on you can you can purchase this person as a commodity. You
know, next one, a common one is okay. So we covered the the abuse one men abuse it. You mentioned that I mean, if by that logic, people shouldn't even get married because people just abuse marriage in general. Right, the likelihood of you succeeding a marriage is you'll likely fail because more than 50% fail. What does that mean? You throw marriage out the window? Yeah. So we covered that. Another argument. It's illegal. Right, right. Well, here's the thing. There's a couple things there's a difference between lawful and legal. Okay. So lawful, meaning that the creator says it was lawful without lawful now before this country existed? The question is, was it lawful? Absolutely.
Now, legal polygyny has not been legalized. Either way. bigamy is illegal. That's when the state has to marriage certificates, which is an entirely different discussion, because those are actual bonds. They have to have marriage certificates and marriage to people at the same time. That is what's illegal. That's considered bigamy, okay, that's a felony. We're polygyny that's not legalized anywhere. So that's hence TLC doesn't have a problem and the families don't have a problem putting the show on one man three wives and Sister Wives and looking for a sister wife and every other wife, wife, co wife show whatever, that's gonna come out. Right? Because in again, even in Utah, you know,
they had they have different court cases trying to legalize everything. My challenge is this. When when a country or when a state let's say the United States, when it comes to them legalizing something, then they're the ones that make the rules for it. Okay, we already
Have the rules and lots of Allah has already revealed this over 14 centuries ago. So that's lawful. So before this country was any before this country had been invaded with genocide against the natives who were here, this was already lawful for 1000s of years, this country is a baby country, only a few 100 year old, a couple 100 years old. You know, I'm saying so, what am I saying is more important, as a human being as a Muslim? Am I saying the one who created the earth and everything on it without these borders and these superficial things? Or am I saying, hey, nope, there's somebody in some institution that came in May, what is Hello haraam? And now making the hot on homosexuality?
Hello? Do I go ahead now I changed my belief system, because now there's gay marriage, and now I supported and proven I'm gonna go to the march with you know, those people and they can do whatever they like to do. But that does not change it from being unlawful to lawful. So we should not use the same logic, when someone takes something to be that is already lawful, and say, well, it's illegal. You know what I'm saying? Because, truth be told, I mean, slavery was legal. You know, Jim Crow laws are still in effect, you know, they're still housing issues. And racism is very prevalent. I mean, the United States is the, the supremacy or the pillar of white supremacy throughout the entire
planet. So these things still exist. So if we look at something like that, the question is, who are you? Because when I'm raised, I'm not gonna say, Hey, I'm a black American. This is why I did do this. And I didn't do that. A lot to know that, that that's not who I pray to. Do you see some of the some of these scholars or some of the civil rights activists who are out there popular amongst the Muslim community, that if you got if we can make a contact, put you in touch where you guys need to advocate your rights as Muslims. Now with all these other rights being perpetuated for different alphabet movements, and all this other stuff that's out there to really now, I think it'd be very a
noble task to take this on. Because this is a this is a family structure and families now being destroyed because of the pressure, the bullying and whatnot. But do you see that maybe now they'll come up and start on the platform speaking for, you know, supporting, educating, helping people who are in your positions not to be oppressed, that will be nice, it sounds like an extreme fantasy. Because again, it requires men to be accountable, and the people that are currently in charge, when we look at the Congress in the Senate, and stuff like that, these are white men. And again, I'm just saying the history of this the Muslims now the most of the Muslims are still looking at themselves
as a minority. Or, and also in the United States. In particular, we're looking at ourselves as though Islam is something foreign. So the face that you will see talking about polygyny, or other Islamic issues, or different media with pundants won't be faces like ours, or like Malcolm X's, or Muhammad Ali's, they won't be black American faces, we've been here for a long time, even before Columbus, so many are still trying to go along to get along and have a mentality like after 911 all of a sudden get really scared. So we don't really want to rock the boat there. I haven't seen it like that. It'd be great. I mean, we work with like the ACLU on a number of different things and
stuff like that. But we want to for those who are wanting to be proactive or dealing with wanting to learn how to control their emotions and actually see this way of life, not as something being rumored about and talk bad about and abuse and everything going on, but can see the beauty in and how it can actually function. When you focus on working with yourself. That's one of the main reasons we started. I mean, I've seen in personal relationships, because now you see like in the schools you have let's say a boy, he's biologically a boy. And he says, No, I don't identify with being a male, I'm a female. And now you have groups say that's his Right, right. And now the laws
gonna be changed and you can do whatever and then you go to the doctor and you want to cut off a perfectly healthy arm, the doctor think you're crazy. But now you want to cut off a perfectly healthy Oregon here for production and whatnot that God gave you. Now you have you know, the doctor is going to help facilitate that and you can't stop him. But now you have somebody that's legal from the from the crater. So I think it's a good time to, you know, it can be a good time to jump in and join the discussion, discussion, you know, but again, our we're not even part you're not even part of the discussion. But we are here at the Dean's show. Absolutely. We're open. Again, like I said,
we're open to it. We're open to
working with whatever avenues to promote However, because your your mind here you have more history. You have more science you have you have way more arguments here for it. And again, green light from the crater. Absolutely. Again, we're not averse to it. But those we want to focus on helping are those who want and are proactive in whether they're single looking at get involved with polygyny or monogamy just to having a healthy marriage and working on your intellectual in your personal development. That's where our focus has been. But it should an ACLU or an organization contact you and want to kind of speak and put something together Of course we don't mind being you know, the
forefront for that. This is good. We were advised to do things well were advised to help bring people together so we have the opportunity to help bring people together to help their marriage out to really helping expand in a healthy fashion emotionally and, and so on. Of course, we're offering
Again, that's why we call it outstanding personal relationships. It's not just called the polygyny thing or anything like that, you know, I'm saying it's really about being outstanding. Another one in the common arguments, the person says, look, the man says now that I can't even handle one, right? No, you know what, I love that when that happens all the time.
I can't even handle one. Well, first of all, that's like, he's overtly saying that you're crazy. Like, you know, of course. Of course, they love sadly, we've had the posting, we've had people say that and I'm like, hey, that's cool. But you're not the man for the job. That's my wife's a woman, you're not the man for the job. Again, it's not for everybody. Now, usually, that's just a mask. As usually a mask, we're okay. I'm not I can't even handle one. First of all, if you're handling a wife, like handling a horse or handling an animal, that's probably the issue. You don't need to handle a woman, you know, say he, we need to expand our interpersonal communication skills and work
with living with another human. So that kinda is the first part if we think we need to handle them. That can be a challenge. And I'm serious men really do say that. But again, it's about knowing yourself. He's referring to her as an animal like I can't handle. Right? Yeah. You know, like, again, the bride that goes on the horse. I mean, this, when we look at the etymology of different words, I mean, the bride is control that bride is the thing that you put on a horse in front and everything and, and it really controls there. But again, like I said, You're not the man for the job. And usually it's a mask, because that same person may be involved in illicit affairs, or you
may have an addiction to, you know, one or several different types of things. So many men are not the right person, people for the job. Yeah. You know, what do you think recently you did have a mom who was brave enough to come on speak on it. I think you posted about it. But then he got attacked because let's maybe there was a slip of the tongue he maybe we always want to make excuses for our brother made. He made a mistake. He said something. I mean, you know how it is you get up there you speak sometimes, and you might utter something that it's a mistake. But he also people exclude all of the maybe the potential good things he had to say. Right? You know what I'm talking about on
polygyny on the topic of polygyny, this quote by was done in Kenya, and it was a great he was he was really good with moms. Right? Yes, yes. He has since apologized for his comments, which were
very venomous against the black and African American community. Yeah. So that part had to be thrown out immediately. But you would have to sort that out in the rest of the court, but was actually great. The challenge is that that was so poisonous in the tongue, that it poisoned the message of polygyny, who was actually giving you know, we shared it for the message of polygyny. But people just didn't edit that part out. You know, this was zooming in on that. And it was again, it was it was very wrong, and it was very hurtful. He was he he said that black people will people in United States he was making the argument for polygyny being a solution. Yeah, the problem was the example
he gave it just wasn't correct. He basically said that. Over 90% of them, you know, they don't know their fathers and they're born from one nightstands. He's also you consider he's African American. He's not African American. He's African. See, there's a difference. Okay. He's African he's having but he's Canadian. He lives in Canada. He's, he's African Canadian. Not really, not really. Here's the thing. And I know you don't understand my brother. We were brothers. But what I mean by that is like Barack Obama, for example, when people look at and say, Oh, he's African American. I say No, he's not. He's Kenyan, American, Kenyan. He's Kenyan American. Just people from Kenya, say Greg
would be Kenyan American.
Yeah, he's Somali. Okay, so on. But the reason I say that is because there's just a, there's a different experience in the black diaspora. So many of my ancestors came from Muslim lands, according to my DNA. And all our DNA came from Muslim lands, but they were captured, they were enslaved for hundreds of years. So we are American without privilege. But we're African without memory.
You know, what I'm saying? So there's a there's a big disconnect. So now, many times there's a there's a shift when it comes to ethnicities, we're now black Americans, due to a lot of the the white racial superiority, complex stuff going on, that other cultures begin to denigrate and disrespect us and dismiss us. So these types of things, and it happened early on, even in Islamic history, you know, so you have books that talked about the Sudan and stuff in the in the beauties of black that, I think it was, um, even Josie Rahim Allah had written so that he wrote a response to it to really lift up the qualities of the blacks. And that's what I have to get the name of the book.
Nevertheless, you know, these things were, it's been going on for quite some time. But so this type of statement to occur from a Muslim talking about an entire group of people was bad, because again, and even if it was for people who were told, or these were for non Muslims, you know, these were just for the Christian blacks and stuff like that. These people are still we're related to these people. Yes.
You know, so to do that to any culture, no matter what culture it is, it's absolutely wrong, we should know. But like I said, he apologized. And the sad part the saddest part about it. Besides that would be that people lost the message of the entire football, which is so beautiful on polygyny, what was what were some of the points that he mentioned that you talked about beautiful? Well, many things that we're talking about? Do you have to be you know, more than twice the man you have to raise up and it's a beautiful solution that many women are, you know, they're left out, you know, so what he I think was probably trying to intend to say was dealing with the single parent
households where so many are single parents and not one nightstands children know their fathers. They're a small percentage that don't, but that's in any culture. Yeah. Okay. But this is solution, you know, for situations like that. So he dealt with that, but he also dealt with the the responsibility and I hadn't heard it this way before. He said, you know, what, we as Muslims are responsible if women are unmarried in our society, and they choose to go to the haraam to satisfy their physical needs who's responsible the Muslim community Muslims as a foreigner, okay, fire Yeah, right as as a collective responsibility by leaving women unmarried, because we really don't practice
polygyny, which is a wisdom given from a lot for this type of situation. And again, that was missed due to this other statements. But I didn't hadn't thought about it in that fashion. Because now we are allowing oppression to occur by not practicing something that will be a solution to a problem. So we may be a counter will be answered before some of the actions and deeds that this woman may have participated in, willingly or unwillingly. Do you think a lot of I mean, you have a lot of our great scholars and imams here in the Americas? Do you think they're scared, because of their communities to speak up for many of these women, because of the outlash that they can get from
people in their community?
I can't say if they're scared, but I know that there are levels of fear their fear, because again, if you go against the board, yeah, usually the board is different massages that across the country. Even though you're talking about Islam, you'll be fired your livelihood to be fired, you'll be ostracized and more the boy know, who doesn't come to the prayers, these board members who want their doctors and other professionals and, you know, they are more secular, I guess we would put there necessarily, but but they control the paycheck, I think it was a robotic, move a lot of talks about you need to make your own money. So you can do it and not be, you know, I have strings
attached, if you will, if that makes sense. So, again, you know, and we see people compromise their values all the time, whether they be scholars or not. The challenge is, you know, we have to be answerable to Allah. What do you think, again, when we hear these terms social conditioning and the groupthink mentality? How much has that affected us? Then how much does it affect not only just the regular The, the the marriage was one husband, one wife, and that's just sinking, it's being destroyed because of the culture, but then on top of that, was not coming together as a community to hold on to our tradition, our core values from the dean, then now, this is this is how much does
that have an influence on the home?
For us, you know, everybody was kind of in love with our story from high school. And, you know, this was, I've been knowing, you know, our husband, I always say our husband, that's another thing. I don't say my husband, but I've known him since he was 14, I was 15, when we met each other. And so when we took our Shahada in the mid 90s, and we went to the masjid, everybody just knew it was just me and him, just me and him. And then we had our children, just me and him and our kids. And that was it. And they took almost possession of our story. So then when my co wife came into the marriage with him, they didn't want to hear that, because they had put us on in this place that we didn't ask
to be at. And it was almost it was destructive, because they took our story of growth in loving each other and creating this family, and they used it to hurt her. And then they would take their marriage and use it to hurt me. So I said, well, that's enough for this now. So now when people do try to approach somebody, even when after my co wife on social media, and then tried to smile in my face, and I said, No, no, you don't get to smile in my face, because you're talking about my family. So you don't get to play one against the other. So when we know better, we're supposed to do better. So she's my co wife, I've never say that's his baby's mother. Cuz in all actuality, we are wives and
we're both the mother of his children. But I don't take my marriage in to try to diminish hers with mine, because the community has tried that. They've actually they don't do it to our husband. Because he's, I believe, because he's male and they know males have the potential to become dangerous and intimidating, and they kind of want to see what they can do. So if they know they can use each other use us to hurt him or to hurt one
Another they will try it. And these are people were saying that we have been maybe friends with our acquaintances with our business partners with they will try it. So it is for us to set them straight. You know, we have to, we're not afraid to open up the dialogue of this is my co wife, I will hug her before I hug anybody in the room. If I'm at the masjid, I'll hook her first my children hug her first, then everybody else that's a Muslim sister gets a hug from me. So I don't I try to if I'm elevating my marriage, I elevate their I don't go Oh, well, you know, I'm the first wife. And this is the second one. We're both wives. We both are. So I don't like to use different terms that
people will twist. You know, because the problem is within them. It's not within the three of us we did we did a lot of work. What are you getting so people can recognize so now we'll get some practical tips going for people who are out there who've chosen to live by this way of life that's ordained by Allah squanto loads as soon as the Prophet system and all the the majority of profits that allow us one of the law sent that now some of the things so people can spot it. Let's say for example, some we've heard women coming to the others and saying, You poor thing. Are you okay? Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. This will be where I call it a pity. Oh, yeah. Oh, yes. Talk about that. I think
that one of them will put down the list one of them. Are you okay? Yeah, the victimization of the initial way. So
what should she now this is in her mind that Okay.
How should she handle this now that she, because she can be taking you like this, you feel like, Man, this person cares for me. But is this person actually uninove? And she's, yeah, that's switch it sometime within the conversation is a shakedown coming through this person? Right, their lack of knowledge? Yeah, they're coming to me. They're kind of they're coming to disrupt my peace in my home. It's a test. And they will test you. They have tested all of us individually. But I had an instance where I went to a store with my 22 year old daughter, and there was a woman there that knew all three of us knew of the three of us because she didn't know us know us. And she looked at me and
she's like, how are you doing? Like, are you you know, and I went, she said, How were you feeling? Because she had got when that they married? And I knew that without her saying it. I looked at her and I smiled, and I said, I'm happy. And she was like, are you still married? I said, Absolutely. And she just, you know, what could she do with me other than say, Oh, that's great. And it just really changed her energy. Because I knew what she was trying to do or trying. She was trying to pick for information. And so when she asked me I've gotten asked and asked many times, are we divorced? Because they're married? So it's diminishing my marriage? By using their marriage? And
I'll always say, No, I'm not divorced. Absolutely. Not with a smile, versus No, not yet.
No, I'm still hanging in there. You have to teach people how to treat you, especially in this situation. So the three of us are very good at defending our family in spotting these. Absolutely, absolutely. One might be trying to come in and say Oh, yes, and I know you've had
please share someone else's. What took me a minute before I at first Will you catch it on or you weren't yet no, I caught on, it just took me a minute to pretty much put people in their place only because
my mindset was, I'm the in I took on society's mindset of what a second wife or a subsequent wife or incoming wife supposed to be, stay in your lane, stay in your place you are the second you are the you know, you're not the real wife, you're not the first you know, this person has this totem pole authority, this hierarchy over you. So until I
really, as I said before, the people pleaser, I don't want the drama. So I'm like, you know what, I'm not going to say anything. I'm not going to do this. And it actually started to eat me up inside. And I felt like what I call, um, even in the programs, I call, I felt what I call myself, the second federal, I felt that my emotions didn't matter. My feelings didn't matter. And it was these things because of my mindset of what I've taken on from what society put out there. Where people would say, Well,
she's a snake or a homewrecker or these type of things. So I say that I will I Yes, yes, I was calling a lot of different nice names. Not nice names, I guess I should say. And it bothered me so much, but instead of
instead of speaking out on it, I kind of just shunned shunned it or just I just went into a shell. Because I didn't feel that I had the authority to say anything because I knew what I was getting into. I knew what to expect.
You know you're coming in. So whatever happens to you, you deserve every little bit of what happens to you and be happy with it and deal with it. Because you are not that important. That's pretty much the societal feelings or norms that we that I was getting, and that a number of income, you know, subsequent wives would get. And I know that because those are the questions that come to me where they feel that they have to get up, they have to meet with the initial wife before they married her husband, they have to meet with her and get her Okay, her approval in order to say yes or less, you know, let's get married, let's have this union, that they have to get that permission. And it got to
be okay. I had a person that stated that if the first wife is not happy, and she's causing issues, then your marriage would not work, it will fail. What do you mean permission what we got, that's what they're Yeah, they will say that, if you do not get that, then is that you have two digits with say, if she's not okay with it, yeah, your marriage will fail. So you is best that you not even pursue it. So even though you he feels that you're a good fit for the family and a good fit for you for him. And you feel that you're a good fit for each other. It doesn't matter what you to think, because if she's not happy with it, then you are you're doomed. You're is you're destined for
failure. And because those were consistently played in the forefront, and there wasn't a lot of subsequent wives speaking out on this is what it looks like. And this is, you know, you do have rights you do have, you know, this say because you're not just a subsequent while you are a wife, you still have to know your place as a wife, not as a second, not as a person that's beneath or under. You have that you do have that say so. But it's the way you do it. But it wasn't until I
I continue to work on myself get better with that and have some confidence in order to say, you know what, I know what it is. I know what Islam says it's not this hierarchy thing. Islam does not put a hierarchy and polygyny, you know, we are all wives we all have. We all have our rights. And is when I when I took that to heart because I knew it. I just let society dictate how I came into it. And that is what caused some issues with with our union at the beginning, because of my mindset and how things how things transpired. Yeah. But when I shifted that mindset, it became better, it became better, I became stronger, I became more confident. And polygyny. polygyny has always been something
positive to me. But it actually I started to feel the true polygyny. What you know what what true polygyny is when I shifted my mindset and not let society dictate, you know, what is supposed to look like? You mentioned in your course that you guys do or what would you call it as outstanding Muslim relationships is outstanding person, outstanding personal relationship. It's all about personal development and growth and giving people the tools on how to deal with these things. One of the things I noticed is, you stressed the communication. You know, some people feel that they can't have a good communication, you know, with
their other family member in this situation, due to the jealousy and you know, the other things that come about, and some maybe at the beginning, you know, there was some arguments and stress. How'd you guys overcome that? Did you have that? And how did you overcome that?
Yes, yeah, we've had communication challenges. Absolutely. And I'll share mine, I let the lady share theirs. But one of the things is to actually find out what your personality type is. You stress that a lot. Yes. Now, there are many different personality type tests and so on, but you are kind of bias to the Myers Briggs type ology indicator MBTI what is The MBTI Myers Briggs type ology indicator? They go to their website? And so you can go to go to human metrics, calm and take the quiz for for human metrics comm correct. And you can see your personality type. Yep. After you take the advantage of taking a quiz. Oh, my goodness, there are numerous one, it helps with our communication one.
Again, the very first thing as a man with being a leader and becoming twice men is you have to grow. So you have to know where you're starting at. You have to know yourself. And my personality type is less than 2% of the population. So it lets me know it kind of exposes why I may do some things and feel a certain way about something. So she might not take that person with them because that's how you were. Once she knows because that's the next step. First, you need to learn it.
You need to learn it and then share it with your spouse or spouses because you want to know their they should know yours and we know how each other operates. So my wife often was an extrovert. Alright, I'm an introvert and nylas Strauss's offense, but mainly an introvert. me hurt her quizzes like really there. But the point is, knowing these different things about ourselves, understand helps us understand how we tick. So now we know the language with which to use or we know what may upset someone. But it also helps I mean, major companies like Google and Amazon and major companies, do these, this specific quiz really for their corporate teams, and see who gets along best and who
will be the high performing teams. So as high performers and high performance coaches, we also want to utilize the same in our lives and our families. Which again, is that Crux? Yeah, that we talked about? So knowing your personality type is very, very important. What can What can you say that going through the storm, earthquake, hurricane, what would you call it or all three and one, in the beginning, would never resemble something like that? This is something that, that if you choose to go this this direction, because you don't have a lot of? Would you say that if you were living in an environment, back in the day where people were practicing this, you'd have more moral support? You
wouldn't no question a lot of these outbursts that maybe happened today, these just out of control rages that people fall in, because you have others who are also involved and say, What's the problem? Right? Absolutely. You see things so you know, what the standards are, what the expectations are. And you can model that or you could ask questions where today, it's hard to find. So we had to go on a philosophy that we hoped would be the change you want to see in the world, we saw too many people failing at polygyny, failing just at marriage, I'm like, we've kind of developed a process amongst each other, we went from the challenges, we kind of overcame that the drama and
the roller coaster thing to really be where we are now, which is having great synergy amongst each other. We're familiar, that's still just some type of fantasy, but it really takes that growth. So so what we did is kind of amalgamated the knowledge and experiences that we've had in different students that we've worked with that we taught all over the world, and put it together and outstanding personal relationships. Yeah. Did you go from feeling like there's no way I can do this? And with these challenges now that has helped you grow to become a stronger Muslim? Better relationship?
Oh, yeah, I was at a place where we never were disrespectful within our, you know, our polygynous situation. What's awesome about Coach nyla is that she always wanted to communicate with me. And then I was like, I'm not ready yet. Because it's just weird to me. And it's funny, because my grandma said to me, she said, you know, she's not Muslim, but she's, she's wise. And she said, You know, my grandmother, she said, You know what, you don't want to say something to her. If it's not kind, she said, and you don't want to burn bridges, whether because you might have to cross back over that bridge, you know, so be careful what you say. Because if you're not, you'll put yourself
in a position to apologize to her. You want to come out of the gate strong if you're gonna come out. She said, if this is your culture, and you're going to do this, you either gonna do it or you're not. So I said, What who does it serve? That I'm not talking to her? Who does it serve? does it serve me? does it serve our husband? does it serve our children, and at that time it was serving none of us. So I said, that's enough for this. We have children that I think we trick ourselves into thinking some people do that the kids are going to be little always they're going to get older and go, Well, you didn't talk and you did this. And you did that. They'll what we say is wash your face
with your mistakes. And so we wanted to package something after doing a lot of work. And we invested a lot of travel a lot of money, a lot of books, a lot of blacking out time and reading and having hard conversations with each other to get to this point so that we can help other people, you know, and then people started calling each one of us individually saying, Well, what did you guys do here and there. And then we came together and said, we should really help others. it this is this is honorable work. And we are very humbled by it. And it is an honor to help bring families together versus tearing them apart. So we know what it looks like to have people from the outside and
sometimes from the inside, tear each other apart and come after us. Yeah. And we said, well, that's enough of that. Let's help people at large open up the conversation in fine healing. So it's super important. What would you say another thing? I'm sure you've heard this where they will come in and try to undermine your family by saying there's what's wrong with her there's a deficiency why he had to go and marry someone else and then makes her feel like she's less of a person have you have have is this been one of the attacks that has come also have you dealt with it? Yeah, that's one of the what would you say if some, if you had if someone came to the person you are actually you come out
of class say
gotcha, come here. Let me talk to you.
First, you're not gonna kiss me come out of the closet. I'm not in the closet. I love when
So that's not a problem. Anyway.
That's actually pretty. This is pretty common. That's common. That's common. It's common one is normally common, obviously for a woman even married to, to feel okay, something must be missing. I'm not doing something. Well, I mean, there's a lady who was we just come across me a week or so ago, she wrote a book about how to keep your Muslim man monogamous.
But the thing I'd share is just, you know, it's a pity you really don't understand the nature of men. She's writing a book like this is written is written, and we were discussing it I'm not gonna give any more airplay other than that. No, not not yet. Who's the the? The African American lady was she's wrote the book on actually promoting polygyny. I had her on the program before. Do you remember? Deborah? Maji? She was she was? She's a university professor Deborah G. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, indeed. But the thing is, I didn't understand nature of men. You know, saying you don't get married. If you thinking that polygyny is going to solve your problem in monogamy. Alright, or another
marriage, even if you're already in polygyny is going to solve your problems you have in your current marriage. That's a foolish individual. marrying someone else not gonna fix your problem over here. That's not how it works. Because you can have one failed and one succeed. And you know, again, it depends on your personal growth. So marrying another woman is not because a woman has a void. I wasn't at a void or losing something or lacking anything in my marriage. Okay, so that's not the reason we like to people like to look for reasons, especially women. But I just let people know, you're not going to understand men are not like the women. Like I would never understand how it is
to have a monthly cycle, nor give childbirth. And I delivered three of my sons, right right there. And I'm absolutely grateful. I'm a man. But I would never understand that just like they really wouldn't understand our makeup. And the way we're designed and created. The challenge is making sure we are that type of person for the job.
Yeah, that's, that's what we're gonna say.
That that's, that's, that's,
yeah, that's amazing. So um, so we talked about communication is key. So for someone who, who's who thinks there's just no way I can get over this, let's say, you know, the jealousy is too too strong. You guys are testimony that it can it can happen to so many more that are out there in similar situations, right? What if I say for some little bit, and I'm
like, oh, why?
Because I was asked before, as a subsequent wife, or you know, co wife wanting to reach out to your, you know, to your co wife, what do you do? Or what if she's not, it was a lot of fear. It's a lot of fear of reaching out. Because what if I'm rejected? What if she feels a certain way? And my advice is that give her some time, give her some space, but don't force the issue. Don't but be open, be open to it reach out, you know, don't be afraid to reach out. I mean, it's easy to say don't be afraid, but that's what I did. I reached out to coach Maxim, I reached out to my wife. And though it wasn't, we weren't besties and skipping in the breeze and you know, doing cartwheels in the lilacs.
It was,
you know, it came to be where it is today, where we are friends, we go shopping together, we do things.
As Okay, so we're gonna get there too. Yeah, so the exam was that I started off, I was giving gifts. I knew when her birthday was, I'm very observant, no one had to really tell me I'm observing like that. No, I knew when her birthday was and then on our holiday on the heat, I was sending gifts. Now he was a liaison at first, you know, I was sending through him. I didn't know he was the mailman back and forth. And she never rejected the gift. And she never sent anything negative back, she, I would get a beautiful note, which I still have a number of her thank you notes. And, you know, either they're in a frame or they're in the note box. And it was nothing negative. But you, you
know, when there's tension there, that is the thing, and I guess I'm gonna have her speak on it a lot more. But when we were together, like in the same space, there was tension. But it was a lot easier, I think when you're away from each other when you're not seeing each other. So my thing is, I still want to give her her space. So I would try not to be in a certain place where she would be at a certain time because that was just like I said, society wise, was that you have to be a certain way. You know, make sure she feels comfortable as comfortable as possible, regardless of how you feel about the situation. So you know, I did the gifts and, and it more and more, it got better. And
she, you know, spoke to me and reached out to me. Yeah, that's where you have these obviously these human emotions, anger, jealousy or whatnot. But again, when you look at the best of role models, they know
Let it transgress those limits that now compromise their Deen and their relationship with the law, can we say, Hmm, absolutely.
That's the thing you want as a man, you have to choose well. So if you're choosing someone who's messy, and you're not choosing for the family building, then it will likely not only fail, but it will probably cause a long term effect negative effect on your initial wife or previous wives. So that's extremely important. I knew that both of them feared a lot. You know, regardless, we could overcome whatever challenges with patience and being diligent on personal development. Yeah, I can go on. Yeah, we got to conclude at the end summarizing, the main thing, don't bully. If people are this is not obviously promoting, you got not here to promote it. You're here to educate and help
people are in it. Also, and to do this education to have people think like, you know, your support and all the sorts of movements or your quiet you might not believe in something but this is part of the deen is part of Islam. Don't believe people like yourselves, who are practicing it, and working to please your Creator, and doing, you know, a responsible thing. Absolutely. Matter of fact, our book is going to be released early 2020. So depending on when your viewers are watching this, they'll have the opportunity to get the book from us that we're all writing together from each of our perspectives as well. Yeah. So that's, again, outstanding, outstanding personal
relationships.com. Yeah. All right. Thank you guys, for being with us. Just a slow session. And thank you guys, you for for anybody who has any questions for them. You can go ahead, leave it in the comments below. And we'll see you again here next time on the Dean's show every week with a new exciting episode. Subscribe if you haven't already, and we'll see you next time. Until then, peace be with you as salaam alaikum.