Muslim Christian Dialogue About The Quran

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See what everyone's talking about.

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Jesus was his messenger

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Bismillah Alhamdulillah wa salaam aleikum, which means peace be unto you. Welcome to another episode of the deen show. We're here trying to help you understand Islam, which is the fastest growing way of life in the world today. And Muslims. And I have two special guests. I'm very excited to introduce my good friend, Frank Avila. Thank you for having me on again. Edie, thank you for being with us. And nomen Ali Khan. So I want to talk to Lahore Lake masataka. What I just said was he wished me peace. I wished him peace back, and you're watching the D show. So Frank Abdullah, Attorney, somewhat involved in politics might run for president one day. I doubt that but who knows?

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Who knows? And nomen Ali Khan in charge of the professor of the Arabic at the baina Institute, yes. All right. You know, we're about here in Dijon, trying to help people understand the most important fundamental

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thing in life, trying to have people acknowledged the existence of God and our duties towards him, and trying to help convey the simple message that Islam calls the people to worship the one God, the God that created you, the guy that took care of you while you were in your mother's womb, and he's taking care of you today. He wants you to worship Him alone, not to worship or set up another god besides Him. So we have

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throughout time He has sent messengers to relay the message on how he wants us to live. And he's made a barter with the human being, if you obey God, on his terms, it's guaranteed you paradise, it's very simple. Now, the last and final messenger came to mankind, the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon them. And over 23 years,

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what was compiled was the Quran. So we want to talk to Frank and we want to talk to nomen Khan, about the Quran, Frank Abdullah, he's a devout Christian, Catholic, I probably a bad Catholic, bad cat, but I tried to I do I am Catholic, Christian. So how would we as ones who submit and surrender to God as Muslims, how would we go about in a practical way, not trying to end up like we're proselytizing or, you know, being pushy? How can we talk to Frank, someone like Frank and show them that this is indeed not the words of Muhammad, but this is revealed from the Creator of the heavens and earth, not to just the Arabs, but the whole of mankind? and prove to him give him the evidence

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that this is from that, in the end? Bismillah salatu salam ala rasulillah. I think the first acknowledgement is guidance is in the hands of Allah. Yeah. Human beings can make our best efforts to present evidence.

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But in the end, Allah is the one who turns the hearts. We have examples of people like abubaker, who, when the Prophet Muhammad wa sallam introduced himself as a messenger, there was no time lag, there was no discussion, he immediately accepted Islam. And on the other hand, you have musar, Moses, debating with Pharaoh. And this dialogue is going back and forth over and over, and he sees miracles in front of his eyes, yet he's still not willing to believe. So the first acknowledgement, of course, is that evidence alone doesn't lead somebody to guidance. It is, in the end their sincerity, and then divine intervention. It is a law who guides and we ask all of us to be guided,

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it's not something that we own or anybody else wants. It's the ownership of God. It's the ownership of Allah. And we beg all we all beg Allah for guidance, so much so that the Muslim is required in his prayers to ask Allah for guidance. And you don't ask for something you don't you don't already have. So if I already had guidance, I wouldn't be asking for Athina Salatin was 13 guide us to and along the straight path. So this is something we are in need of as much as anybody else. This is the first thing. The second thing, I think the concept of miracles, as understood in Islam, as an introductory point, before we even talk about the Quran is very important.

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I mean, put yourself in the shoes, maybe you live a few 1000 years ago, and your neighbor who's a nice guy, everybody knows when the neighborhood, respected gentleman, good businessman comes from a good family. He knocks on your door one day and he tells you that he's a messenger of God because an angel came to him the other night and revealed this message to him. And not only did he reveal his message to him, now he has to deliver it to the neighbor to the family to everybody in the society. And on top of this, not only do you have to believe what he's saying, you have to follow every one of his instructions because they're actually not his instructions. They're God's instructions, and

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not following them will mean you will live a curse life here and eternal Doom in the hereafter. And this is what your neighbor comes and tells you. What's your immediate response. I mean, the immediate response for any normal human being is either a You're crazy.

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The What did you have for dinner last night? Yeah. You know

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Maybe he's possessed nowadays we say psychologically disturbing the old days, they said he's possessed. Yeah, right, or he's playing a trick. It can't be for real. So skepticism is the normal response to a tall claim like that. And this is all of the prophets. All of the prophets claimed to be messengers of God, that received revelation that speak on behalf of the Lord of the worlds. So from the very beginning, what we have to understand nowadays, it's easy to accept a religion because you have millions of followers, right all over the world, believing the same thing. But imagine you have to be the first one. And everybody around you your entire society says this man is crazy. Don't

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listen to him, which is the same of Jesus. He said, he said, um, and of Moses as it is of Mohammed Salah. So this is the first thing, messengers put themselves in a very difficult position, not by their own choice, because God gives them their responsibility. And we also know it is our creed as Muslims, that messengers, prophets and messengers, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Noah, etc, etc. These are the most intelligent people that ever lived on the face of the earth, that God picked the most noble and smart people to do his task. And these people as smart as they are, they would have pretty well known that if I make this claim to be a messenger, that the response I'm going to get is in the

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negative for the most part, yet, and it's not like they're making this casual conversation on a train ride. They're doing this with their family, with their neighbors, with their business partners, with their society with the leaders of their communities, every single day for decades, sometimes centuries in the case of Noah, Noah de Sena, right? It is almost, it seems an impossible task. And in this impossible position, it is understandable that very, very few people believed, and whoever did believe was considered crazy. These are the fanatics. And at the end of the day, when it became so difficult for the messengers to deliver their message, one of the precedences one of the

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great legacies of God of Allah, is that he would support his messengers with a miracle. In some cases, the miracle would come early. In other cases, it would come late, but it would come, it would come to support their message to make them more believable. If you don't think this is from me. Here's the sign. So for example, for Muslims, Jesus, Lisa, a Salaam speaks at the day of his birth, and he claims the innocence of his mother, when he's a day old. This in itself is a miracle proving the truth that he in fact, is a messenger. We learn in the Quran, where you are lemuel Kitab, Al hikmah, Torah, Balanchine, the angel tells Mary in the Koran, that he is going to teach Jesus, as a

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child, he will have knowledge of the Torah and the engine the gospel altogether. So he won't have to go study it, to have the knowledge of it, he'll be given the knowledge of it to begin with, which is why he's going to be able to correct the rabbis who may have made alterations at that time to the Bible, and he'll be coming after them, you've changed the Word of God, etc. So, prophets were given remarkable miracles. Now, if you study the history that is common to Muslims, and Christians and Jews, you find miracles like a staff turning into a snake, or a water parting, in the case of Moses, or a dead person coming back to life, or the blind being able to see or a clay bird being blown into

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an it turns into a real bird. These are miracles of prophets that we all believe in.

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The thing of it is, though, Muslims believe that the overwhelming miracle of Islam of Muhammad isonem is not something visual. It's this message these it's these words, and they're not even given in the form of a book or tablet or anything. They're they're spoken word. The Quran is original form of spoken word. This is a dramatic departure from all the miracles of the past. I mean, if you talk to someone of similar faith, a Christian Jewish tradition, if you think of miracles, they're things something for the eyes to see, for the most part, right, a blind person being able to see again and, you know, a leper being cured, etc. But for now, this miracle is not is less for the eyes to see,

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but for more for the ears to hear. So how can that be miraculous? This is the first question that comes to mind. The Muslim response to that is number one. The reason for this miracle being an audible one is because it had to outlive the life of its messenger. We Muslims believe Mohammed is the final messenger. So I saw them, and this message has to be carried forward. Now for a believing follower of Jesus. When he tells his child, I saw the dead person come back to life, I saw the blind being cured with my own eyes. That's a father narrating an eye witness account. That child would narrate it to his next generation, as a family tradition. But after a few generations, it's just a

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story. You could believe it. Or you could say I've heard this from my parents. I don't know I didn't see it for myself, which is the skeptic attitude we have today. The final messenger was given a miracle that you can look into much after he's gone. Unlike the miracles of previous prophets, just as a small example again, we believe that Noah for example, Lutheranism or actually let's stick solid solid as an Arab messenger.

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He was given a sheet Campbell, as a miracle that came out of a boulder it wasn't born of another camera was born out of a boulder. Now I can tell you that but you don't have to believe me because you didn't see it happen. Right? skeptic could say, Well, that sounds nice, but it's just another fairy tale. This is mythology, Islamic mythology. So we were given something in Islamic creed in the intellectual tradition, one consistent subject for the last 14 1500 years in Islamic scholarship has been the subject called a jasmine Quran. What that literally means is the overpowering miraculous power of the Quran. That's what that subject is. So, as an introduction, what I wanted to share is,

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we're not talking about the Koran, spiritual power, or you know, like you could say, a believer could say, well, I believe the Old Testament is a miracle in my heart, or a Hindu could say the Vedas have spiritual miracles performed in on me. Yeah, we don't we don't mean it. In that spiritual sense, we actually mean it much more in an intellectual sense in an academic sense. So inshallah we'll we'll talk about that a little bit. Tell us I want to get Frank involved here. Tell us Frank, in this book that was compiled over 23 years, it clearly defines who God is that he's the creator of all the sun, the moon, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad. He's a creative man, but he's not a man doesn't eat

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sleep. He doesn't do any of these things that men women do that he's distinct from his creation. He created the creation to clearly defines who God is and who he isn't. It talks about the purpose of the humans like clearly defines it. It talks about the hereafter. paradise Hellfire has certain things that have the human development of the embryo and the mountains and things in creation, that modern scientists today's have testified that there's no way that this can come from.

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Mohammed could not have known these facts about human development in the seventh century, because most of them were not discovered until the 20th century, that God transmitted through Mohammed bits of his knowledge that we have only discovered for ourselves in recent times.

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1400 years ago, when the world was immersed in darkness, the Quran was revealed, which brought light to a beleaguered world. And whereas the earlier books came with many scientific mistakes, due to the hand of man having delved into them, the Koran had none of these contradictions. The world thought there could be no reconciliation between religion and science. But the Quran mentioned many scientific facts in great detail, like how a human being developed in the mother's womb, and described other scientific facts, which amazed the world's renowned scientists, and scientific community, modern scientists today's have testified that there's no way that this can come for a

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man. So I want to get your response to some of this, you got to hang out with some Muslims, and you got to learn a little bit about Islam. So tell us, what do you feel where do you feel this book came from had to come from somebody? So Well, there's some there's a couple concerns. I have visa v the Quran? Yes. The first thing is, is that different from the Bible, the Bible was compiled over time by different people. So you don't have one author. So in the terms of the Quran, you have one author, and that's Mohammed, who you consider the profit and not only the profit, but to see all the profits and the greatest of all profits. Although I know that some Muslim sects believe that there

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have been profits after Mohammed. But in most I think mainstream Muslims believe you'd be the seal of the Prophet, and the certainly the most important profit. So the second thing is the interpretation. Some Muslims seem to believe in my reading, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, that the Quran is not merely, as you said, A contextualized, that it is the literal Word of God given, almost transliterated from the mind of God to the Prophet Mohammed. And in the case of the Bible, people are writing in some is mythology, some are parables, and stories, some are literal history, some are metaphors, that it is through the context of history. So God did not dictate by

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some autosuggestion, in terms of at least the Catholic way, we read the Bible, it was interpreted,

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and that is through the lens of the human being. So the human being is inspired. But he writes through the context of his history, and the terms of the Quran, it seems much more dramatic, that it is indeed the literal Word of God. So that's the difference. So bought the Bible is the Word of God, but not necessarily the literal Word of God is the word of men inspired by God, writing through the lens of their own language, their own history, their own context, their own literary styles, etc. So, the question to me is, is that you make the claim that God

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inspired the Prophet Muhammad to write the Quran, however, how do we know that it was God even

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Prophet Mohammed himself and correct me if I'm wrong at first didn't know if it was God. And there's an Islamic concept or a concept even in pre Islamic Society and you had different there's a different term but even in Christian or other societies of the unseen world, the jinn, you know, kind of made an a comedy and I Dream of Jeannie Jeannie, I always thought it was a funny show with Barbara, even very funny show. But that is actually the concept of the gin. However, the gin and most concepts is a negative type of entity, not necessarily a demon, but a negative type of entity. So

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Mohammed says, is to anger angels jabril, the angel Gabriel, the same angel that came to the Virgin Mary. So how do we know that the angel is not a demon is not a gene, the same thing, the founder of Mormonism, Joseph Smith, he claims the angel Moroni came to him and gave him a new revelation of Jesus Christ in the Book of Mormon. So he's making a very similar claim to Islam, in the sense that now we have a new revelation, not just somebody who studied but actually God coming to somebody. So I want nomen to answer this. So you're saying the question is that? How do we know three parts? Who answer but tell me this? So how do we know that it's God who inspires the Prophet Muhammad? And then

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the other problem I have with it, it's not just like the Bible of many different authors inspired by God, it is actually the literal Word of God, which makes it much different than the Bible and much more problematic in mind before he goes into answering Tell me just one thing, just hypothetically, if you with full conviction, believe that Muhammad peace be upon him was a messenger. And there was enough evidence, because I believe you're sincere individual. Would you accept this as a way of life from God? Well, here if, if, hypothetically, that this is like, the question that we've talked about another show, is if God created the rock so heavy that he could pick it up? Obviously, if I believe

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that it was the truth, then it's the truth. But if I don't believe it's the truth, so the two other things if as the two things that the Quran says aren't possible that I as a Christian and believe is, one is a metaphysical impossibility, I believe that you'd believe sort of the Jews is the idea of the incarnation, Can God become man? Yeah. And so the Quran says that, that, indeed, Jesus is not God, that He is a prophet, an honored Prophet, but a man. And then the second issue, which I find more contradictory in terms of history is the idea of the resurrection. So if a Muslim says, well, the resurrection didn't happen, because the Quran said it, so it becomes cyclical argument. So the

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reason that I don't have that conviction, obviously, if I believe that the Quran was truth, and I would believe it's still, let's say, just Okay, one plus one is 15. Let's say you were taught this from a young age. But let's say now, he convinced you that not one plus one is two, would you accept it or continue a tradition that we were used to for years doesn't let me interject here? Okay, there are multiple issues that he's raised. So we have to try to address each one, before we get a chance to address all of them, but at least we have to attempt.

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The first thing as a correction was awesome. Mohammed didn't write the Quran because he didn't know how to write Yeah, and it wasn't compiled in written form until after it was compiled to some extent in his lifetime on parchment, leather, rock bones of animals, but the primary archiving of the Quran was memorization. Okay, so this is the first thing, the second thing, actually what you present as your fundamental intellectual problem, called on having single source, right, or the inspiration coming to one. And then on top of that, it being literal, not inspired, instead of being the inspired Word of God is the literal Word of God. These are actually the things that brought me to my

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convictions. So they could be the conviction. But then where does the original? Where does the original source saying, Okay, this is a source Now, now, here's the thing.

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Two part answer. The first part is, if we experience if we see something miraculous,

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at the hands of Moses,

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and we explain it away as the work of demons, it is possible, but actually by saying that by saying that, that was the work of demons, what we're actually kind of acknowledging is that it was superhuman, that's not possible by a human being. Okay. Now, the question remains,

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are there are two parts one to prove the miracle itself, what makes it miraculous, the fact that it's the literal Word of God, we have to show that it's somehow this language is superior to any human document, beyond the shadow of a doubt, to be able to say this is this can't be human. So let me ask the question, why is the Quran then, in your mind more superior than the Vedas are the bugs or lack of Gita, or the Bible, or the gospel or any other religious document? Alright, so like I said, in my first introduction, I'm trying to elaborate that point. Now, I didn't get into that yet. Islamic scholarship is concerned with self with the subject title, the overpowering miracle of the

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Quran for a millennium and a half. It is studied from many, many, many, many angles.

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In more recent history, you alluded to

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There's a discussion of scientific phenomenon in the Quran that could not have been known at the time and are only now coming to rehash and, and surface. For example, the moon not having light of its own are two different kinds of water in the oceans, you know, heavy water and light water, etc. These kinds of things that are alluded to in the Quran that are now only being discovered in science. But this is a recent discussion, this predates this, you could argue maybe the last 5070 years. But we're, it's not Muslims are holding on to their creed, that the Quran is miraculous for a millennium and a half. That's a long time without any scientific issues. Right. The issue is this.

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In speech, we argue that that speech is basically comprised It comprises two components style and content. And great speech is that which has meaningful content, but it's presented in marvelous style, right? What we're arguing in the linguistic study of Quran, and this is what's not easily translated into another language, is because it's the literal Word of God, the way not just what he says, but how he says it makes it miraculous. Now that's very difficult to explain to somebody who doesn't study Arabic. And this makes my job particularly difficult because I'm trying to say, the Koran is miraculous in a linguistic sense, right? And so obviously, the language that Muslims

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believe is Arabic So much so that right now this rendition of the Quran, it's covered a cover English, it's a translation of the Quran, the title says called on normal symbol ever call this quote on? Like, you wouldn't call this so called on you would say this is an attempt at the meanings of the Quran? Yes, at the most right. This is across cultures. Okay. Well, let me let me ask you a question on that. So there is a concept in Islam, it seems that the Quran must or should be an Arabic. Yes. And that because it's the limit there. It's a literal Word of God. But it seems to me that and that's not believed by Christians, or some Jews believe that about Hebrew, although it

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depends. But it seems that in terms of if Islam is a universal message that the language is accidental, or incidental. So Christians do not believe that Latin or Greek or even Hebrew are inherently sacred languages, they're merely languages that are sacred because of the purpose of using them. So you can have the vernacular language, you could have English you could have historically it's Latin, historically. It's Greek. Historically, it's Hebrew, but it's not inherently Hebrew. Okay. But it seems that Hindus do believe inherently Sanskrit is more holy. Yes. Arabs believe inherently Arabic, classical Arabic is more holy. Sure. And then some Jews believe

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inherently Hebrew is more holy. But if you have a universal message to me, excellent point. Here's the thing. No, you got you have two parts. The Quran is a message to the Muslims, a message for humanity. And it's a miracle. The message has to be translated in every language, and it actually started happening even in the life of the Prophet himself. The first attempts at a Hebrew translation of the Bible happened by m&r bas la de la harnois, a companion of the prophet who learned Hebrew just to get communicate the message to the Jewish community. But the miracle of the Koran is something limited to the Arabic in terms of the language, there are other aspects of the

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miracle, like the scientific phenomenon, and that stuff that can be translated. But just to give you a taste of what I'm talking about, when I first got into the subject, and as I was being raised as a Muslim, I was kind of a skeptic, myself, and I heard over and over again, that the Quran is an incredible language, unsurpassed language, it's the it's the marvel of literature. And my first I did, I wasn't a student of Arabic at all. And in high school in this country, I just became curious, I started reading the Quran for myself. And I found actually that it was confusing literature, it was moving from subject to subject tenses were changing, context was changing. sutras were changing

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in their historical context, there was a lot of shift. And I didn't understand because coming from a Western point of view, you have a certain view of how you critique literature, right. Now, when I got into Arabic studies, and I, I started diving into this question of what makes the Koran miraculous, I started discovering things that literally they overpowered me, and I'm still a student of them actually teach a seminar that's traveling the country called divine speech. And the entire intent of the seminar is to expose the literary marvel of the Quran to an English speaking audience without resorting to Arabic, that's my, that's the seminar. Now, just one example.

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The Quran Muslims believe is a spoken word, it's not written. We also believe that Mohammed Salim didn't know he didn't have the ability to write. We also know that when he would recite the Quran, there would be dozens of followers and they would immediately memorize what he said, and it will just spread. So there's no editorial process. You can't go back on what you've recited. It's gone. It's out there. Now. You can't take it back. It's kind of like sending an email nowadays, right? Now one, just as an example, one phrase in the Quran, that's part of a large discussion is the phrase waterbuck Africa. In Arabic, it says what Africa which means and

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declared the greatness only of your Lord. Now recall I said something about a fusion of style and content, the content is beautiful. And it's part of a passage in which the signs of the Lord have been mentioned, the struggle has been mentioned. And then the messenger is being told, declares the greatness only if your Lord, what's interesting is the phrase or a back Africa bear is a palindrome. In other words, it spells backwards and forwards the same way. So the Quran is declaring the greatness of the Lord in a way in its spelling form. And there's multiple instances in the spoken Koran, that it's actually a linguistic palindrome. Now, when you want to generate a palindrome in

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English, like race car, or Bob or dad or something like that, small one syllable ones are easy to generate. Maybe a big word is a little harder, but a sentence, it would take you some time to sit down with words that are spelled backwards and forwards and come up with something that and then even if you do that, your concern isn't your content, what's your concern, the spelling. So the spelling is actually dictating your content. Here, you have multiple instances in the Quran, where this the content hasn't been altered, the content is continued flows with the passage, and yet the spelling structure is, you know, it's a palindrome it's symmetrical, backwards and forwards the same

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way. And this is not one there's multiple instances in the Quran. And this is one area of the many areas of the linguistic marvel of the Quran. The only other thing I want to comment that's easily understandable, actually two things, one, from a historical point of view.

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In the 1600s, I believe this is a professor of the Catholic Church had written a paper about the the great error in the Quran, the great historical error in the Quran, and that refers to you know, the Pharaoh and Moses. Well, Pharaoh in the Quran tells one of his ministers whose name is Herman Okay, he tells him to build him a tower. So he may reach the God of Moses, and, you know, to discuss with him. Now, this occurs about four or five times in the Quran, Harmon is mentioned a total of six times in the Koran.

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When Christian and Jewish scholarship came into contact with this passage, the criticism was, first of all, there's no high man mentioned in the Bible, in association with the Pharaoh. Second of all he is he has been mentioned in the book of esters, under the King Xerxes

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in the story of the tower of Babylon, Tower of Babel, the famous story and this is 1000 years after Moses. So it's a completely different historical era, we're human. And that means the man Herman has been mentioned as building a tower. So the obvious alleged error was that Mohammed Mandala may have confused these stories that he was kind of getting from the Christians and Jews and kind of mixed them together and presented this. And this has been something that's been reiterated in Jewish Studies encyclopedia and well, let me break it down here. And I am not an expert in this. So it's hard for me to comment on the specific but that there is allegation that the Quran is bits and

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pieces of different gnostic and different other religious literature that was out there at the time. Yeah, there's no evidence to it and the coherence of the Quran, the cohesion of it as a text is, is the ultimate proof to the contrary. But just on that historicity point, Maurice book was in like a, it's about 70 years ago that he engaged in the study. He said, Well, Jewish history contradicts what the Koran is saying about Harmon and this tower building. Let's look at Egyptology. Let's look at Egyptian history. Because the French and the Germans at the early part of the late part of the 1800s had already started translating or getting into Egyptian hieroglyphics and reformulating the

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language to try to translate some of the ancient Egyptian texts. Egyptology was a big deal in the early 1900s. Even so he travels to speak to some of these Egyptologists says to them, the Koran has this name, Harmon, as a minister, working for the historical Pharaoh at the time of Moses, that Pacific Pharaoh, Egyptologists tell him and this is actually articulated in his book, The Bible Koran and science

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that there's no way this man could have known that name. And we probably saw that even gonna be there because that language, the Egyptian hieroglyphic language, was already dead for a couple of 1000 years. Nobody knew that language.

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After translation, he goes to Austria and finds out there's actually a list of people that worked in the the court of a pharaoh they find Harmon as the chief architect. That's actually found in Egyptology, a name mentioned in the Quran. So from the historical point of view, at last comment on this issue of the miraculous nature of the Quran, the Quran claims in then known as unethical, we are the ones who have revealed the ultimate reminder we meaning God Himself, He speaks of himself in the Royal and he says we've made the Quran easy for remembrance. We made the Quran easy for him. This is a statement occurred multiple times and the Quran To this day, the only book that to my

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knowledge that is memorized by how

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Hundreds of 1000s if not millions of people of all ages, despite their language background, in by the letter from one end of the book to the other is no color and without photographic memory, I don't have photographic memory. I just started learning Arabic in 2000. I've already memorized half the Koran. And this is part time endeavor. You know, in Chicago land probably you'd find a couple of 100 kids that have easily memorized the entire Quran. In China, you'll find kids that have memorized adults that have memorized Koran. So the fact that the Quran says that it's miraculous that he memorized a 600 page document, miraculously easy to memorize and it's memorized by people from all

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over the world by to the letter in and of itself as America we're gonna have to get together again, they're signaling that we are out of time, Frank, definitely need more time on the stump. Yes, absolutely. Thank you for being with us, Frank. Thank you, brother Norman Khan, and like to thank you for sitting tight to another episode of the deen show. As you can see, we can sit with our brothers and humanity and discuss some of these topics in a civil way and we can agree to disagree. Or one day that brother that you sit with might acknowledge that there's only one God and he agrees to worship the creator alone without any associates and that Mohammed is the last final messenger.

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So with that said, we hope to see you again next time on the deen show until then, Salaam Alaikum. Peace be unto you.

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Allah

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is His Messenger.

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Jesus was his messenger.

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You wanna

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add mana hunter when I

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was young

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lolly