Mohammed Hijab EMERGENCY MEETING with Patrick Bet-David Muslims & Christians working together

And I think having this emergency meeting with Patrick that David was the right thing to do and his response was in turn the wise response I think he's a very Salam aleikum greetings of Peace recently there was a video that caught all of us by surprise, something about an ambush when it comes to the title of the video, which is we were about to be ambushed. It involves Patrick being David Muhammad hijab and Ali Dawa. I said what is going on? Patrick would like to do a roundtable discussion on religion, specifically Islam. I get on the phone with Patrick when David because I love his vision. He's come a long way regarding Islam and Muslims. And he's seeing the bigger picture of Christians

and Muslims working together. And what of Muslims and Christians come together he's recently had on his program, our brother agitate hubby Mike Tyson. Now Patrick is going even further trying to set up a historic event, inviting myself to be a co host with him with some of the biggest names in the Muslim Christian world to try to accomplish this vision. Now to get to the bottom of this we had an emergency meeting with myself, Patrick, but David and Muhammad hijab. So let's find out what happened in this emergency meeting. And what's going to happen next God willing in sha Allah, this is the day job.

I would only talk to you

how much respect I have for the faith of Islam Show. Welcome to the deen show. The Deen show

they're out to kill us all. So I'm gonna go brothers and sisters. We went to the streets to ask Americans about Islam. Here's what they said. Do you know anything about Islam? No. Do you know anything about Islam? No. Sadly, do you know anything about Islam? Not really. Do you know anything about Islam?

No, sorry. You know what Islam means? Islam?

No, we've been told that they're out to kill us all. That's what you've been told that Muslims are out to kill you all.

Well, that's it. I say on TV. Anything. I know it's in the Middle East. Well, then you're gonna have four wives, brothers and sisters. As you can see there are so many Americans who don't know about Islam. We need your help to change that help us to build the deen center the first Mega data center in America click the donate right now may God Almighty Allah reward all of you

as

well equals South Africa. How you doing? Not bad at all? Not bad at all. I love you. I love you smile, brother.

That's what

that's that's it all. Your all your wife? See?

That's what I'm in.

So tell me how you doing? How you been? Having a lot of a lot of men very well, how about yourself?

I'm good am hamdulillahi rabbil aalameen. So let's start off with and this is again, with the permission of Patrick and David. He we're not going and having a meeting and and talking about privacy things that were discussed. We had a prior we did start off as a private meeting between myself yourself and him. And another individual, Robert there. And from there, we concluded at the end, we had some good things. It was a very great positive meeting. And he said go ahead and discuss some of the things that we talked about with his permission. So where would you like to begin? Well, I mean, let's begin with, you know what happened? Exactly. So maybe we would have seen the video

where I mean, Ali Dawa, basically talking about this negotiation that took place, and it was weeks and weeks long. These negotiations between us and value tainment relating to a debate between us and some interlocutors about, in the first instance, about Judaism, Christianity and Islam. We agreed to such encounter and discussion. But then there was some, some problems that say, in the, in the negotiations in the boundaries, settings, between us and and the other party. And we felt like the kind of deal that we were getting was a wrong one. And so we decided to,

to move away from it altogether, because we thought that, you know, for example, we had inequality in the numbers of people that were going to be representing Muslims, comparative to the amount of Christians that were going to be there. If we include the host and the CO hosts and stuff like that. We had a topic which wasn't set and was yet to be set. There wasn't even a guarantee of equality of timing, which is standard in professional debates, and stuff like that. And we kept asking some of these questions and we didn't get a satisfactory response. And so because we

We felt more and more frustrated by the whole experience, we decided to bring the matter to the public. And we you know, because of that and other things, we decided to speak to Patrick, face to face about on zoom with you, of course, as a moderator. And I think that was your initiative and you should be given credit for that.

Yeah. Because I think you see things that we don't see, obviously, being in America, I haven't spoken to him, I haven't had private conversations with him. And to be honest with you, in that conversation he came across as extremely facilitating he came across extremely humble, and generous, magnanimous. And so if anyone shows us that level of energy, I think it's only right for us to respond in kind. And he was very concessionary, in fact, saying that, you know, all of those aspects that we've spoken about, the topic can include both Christianity and Islam, that there'll be a co host, and that you would be the co host. So it would be instead of Patrick, but David being

the only person to host it, it would be you and Patrick, but David, which would be which would kind of distribute

the bias if you like, and create more of a, an equal playing field, as it were. And critically, as well, that we could actually use the footage for our own social media platforms. And so the, we could potentially

put it on our channels, which will, which would increase the obviously the reach and and would be better for everybody, as well. And this would prevent any potential distortion that could happen.

That, you know, in the potential debate, which we don't think that Patrick would go that far and do to be honest, based on the conversations we've had with him, and based on his track record, they would distort, especially considering the fact that he actually did in the first instance, actually say that it was going to be live anyway. So that was a mitigation that we put in place in the first instance. But with all those things having been said, it sounded much more agreeable, frankly. And, in fact, by the end of the conversation, we had a broader conversation about Muslim Christian interlocutors where we suggested William Lane Craig, and Ben Shapiro, and he has links to Ben

Shapiro has just been on his show. And as many people will know, I've had many videos, you know, refuting Ben Shapiro on his Palestine issue, on the Palestine issue, and so on. So that will be a massive, you know, kind of debate if you like, or discussion, that could potentially happen along the line as well. So there's, there's good to come out of this. But since we're still in the kind of negotiation stage, and we're solidifying everything, and as few things we have to take care of, from our perspective in the United Kingdom, we cannot update the public with an exact date and time as to when the engagement will take place with whom and what topic will be whatever, until all these

things are set in stone. But the point to be noted here is the point to be noted here is that, quite frankly, he was facilitating and it does seem like Patrick, bet, David, and value tainment want to go more the direction of building bridges with the Muslim community, tackling some of these issues. For example, the issues to do with transgender ideology, and, you know, teaching LGBT curricula to children, and things like that, whichever one, let's call it more than say, conservative because we're not conservative. From a ideological perspective, I certainly were traditionalists, and we aligned more on those issues with us conservatives, than we would do with liberals agree on. So

that's really the gist of the musical is a productive meeting a fruitful one at that. And it's only fair, just as we came out in public, to reprimand and to criticize Patrick, but David Foster, come out and do the same thing.

When he's been so concessionary with us

you know, a lot of people you when you look at that, that's the honorable thing to do. And that's what we're called to do as muslims. I mean, that's, you know, that's something that now obviously, anyone who's extended, we've i and I've commended him actually and I've seen his progression he's come a long way from years ago some things that he said and then we've also respectfully you know, presented the arguments academically I've gone and we made some videos and then you've have also and I think that things are starting to turn for the better I've compared to like Joe Rogan, you remember me and you I think we've learned together some things to Joe Rogan. Yeah, me and you and

that's the programs. And Joe Rogan. It looks like he really did a turn. It's one of most popular religions in the world, but it's also it's a religion that embraces discipline. You go through Ramadan, you're not eating all day, you're not drinking any water all day. That belief system helps people keep some discipline keeps them on a good path. I mean, how many great fighters are like devout Muslims? Islam originally was the

Can scientists I mean, they were the if you look at the the earliest Islamic world, they were the ones that were the most advanced at one point in history. They were the ones that were pushing mathematics and science and reason and logic. You know, it's just it comes in cycles, man, it comes in cycles of suppression and dominance. And, you know, the the real concern is unstoppable dictatorships like China and Russia and the when, when there's no dissent and no discussion. I've got a lot of friends who are Arabs, I spent a lot of times Middle East. I love them. They're awesome. There are some factions that say we gotta go blow ourselves up. And that's obviously

factions of Christianity that I like to do right off the bat. 100% Absolutely. In America, right. And I guarantee Absolutely, we're being invaded and attacked by Muslims all the time. I probably some radical fundamentalist Christians that would want to do the same thing, right that some some Muslim sects have done. Remember, he was having a lot of Islamophobes. And he was just really one sided. But him also he was talking recently, you've done some videos on that. And we give credit where credit is due because we're not trying to remain in some hostile environment. I mean, of course, we're going to call people out for their mistakes, their blunders, we've tried to do it in a

respectful manner, hoping that the door is open, that if the people want to come respectfully, and sit with us, talk with us, not just talk about us, talk with us, and we're gonna have a seat at the table. And I think this is going towards that path for the greater good. The greater picture that you're not in the public may not know that there was a time where Joe Rogan was actually on his show. And he had a particular t shirt on which had the word reds of itch on it. Is that Reds have it right? You remember? Yes, yes. I thought to myself, this looks unbelievable. What where's this familiar and I realized why Edie Reds have it so you had your son and that was my last name. Why did

he so tell me why is it you have your son name when his T shirt

I was just wondering I said Look how Allah God Almighty these are like signs is a sign for him. I don't know he had he had little. He had like, my that was for my school. He had my my result because jiu jitsu t shirt on his weak point. We pointed that out. We got some we got some jujitsu going. We've got some nutrition here. You're not the only one. I mean, you were not the only fan of your jujitsu. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That'd be fun of your jujitsu. Because, I mean, we've got someone who's actually you know, who was wearing your T shirt? I mean, let's take a look at this. Oh,

hey, that's our buddy. We actually that's our friend Joe Rogan. That's your T shirt, though, isn't it? Yeah, that is our t shirt. Yes. Your surname on that. That's my surname. And yeah, that's my last name. Because you made a video right with one of the with one of them mache. Before about about Joe Rogan. Some of his

some of the things that he said about Islam? Yeah. What do you think this is a kind of peace offering? Or is it? I don't know. I think, you know, like I like I mentioned in the video we did. Yeah, we really wanted to reach out to Joe. Yeah, in a benign a nice kind way shows you something very important, which is that the work that you're doing at the deen show. And the work that's been done, in terms of trying to put our to kind of put our two cents, if you like in the narrative is having such an impact that someone like Joe Rogan, who's considered to be like the top podcasts, or maybe in the United States, maybe one of the top leading ones in the English speaking world,

that he's actually putting your T shirt on? I think it's to be honest, I think it's a sign of respect. I think he's done that, because he's seen your videos, he's clearly seen our videos together that we've put forward. And he's put that on the show. Look, we're not against each other. I think he's done that as a sign of respect. And he also respects the fact that you're also a Brazilian jujitsu practitioner, people don't know about you, you either know how many stripes you've got. Now a black belt is a five strike four stripes or four degree, which is for those who don't know, that is, it takes years and years and years to achieve that that is, you know, that takes more

than 10 years to achieve for the average person, maybe 1213 years. And so he respects that because he's a black belt himself. And he sees a Muslim and he sees many Muslims, like yourself in the UFC and so on. Coming on, he's coming on and speaking about his religion in a very respectful way, which shows you that your approach has reached the highest levels already, which is something you should be really proud of a handler of Laremy

alhamdulilah may, may Allah God Almighty accept it from you from me from all of us and continue to bless his work and tell me so you being now in a position where we've come a long way having this emergency meeting. And now some of these names that you've mentioned, hopefully they'll put this together. Why is this important? Why is this and how is this something this is historic, I think it is. And you were mentioned you were mentioning you were mentioning like if you look down 50 You said something brilliant, and people are not looking you know ahead if you want to look 50 years, repeat what you were saying that's very common nowadays. If you look at what what

Teenagers study in secondary schools, they studied the civil rights movement because there was some paradigm shifting cultural moments. You know, this study what happened with African Americans who study feminism, they study all these kind of things that happened in 96. In particular, yes, those legislative change. But there was also a grassroots movement, which was important enough to be studied 50s and 60s 70 years later, I think what we're seeing with the cultural wars, nowadays, is significant enough to be a historical event. And I think that because of social media, we as the Muslims do have now a voice in that particular historical moment. And people are going to be

studying that I do believe that people could be studying this 5060 years from now, it is historically significant, as all those things that were happening at that time, because quite frankly, it's even more watched, it's even more popular pound for pound, you know, then those things were at that time, the only thing that's not there is legislative change. But I think it's as historically significant what was going on in the 60s. And so people will be looking at figures like Joe Rogan, and studying them, I think six years from now, potentially figures like Patrick bet, David and I said that to him, I said that people were looking at value tainment doing coursework and

studies and theses about what was said, what was their stance dealing with Muslims, or what was their stance of Jews, and was there what was their stance with Christians, and, and so on, and so forth. These things are very important now, it constitutes the legacy, the cultural legacy of the history, really, the sociological History of the United States of America, and the West in general. And we have a place on the table, as you've mentioned, and said, as a Muslim, so we have to be careful how we strategize, so that we don't agree to everything. And we don't disagree to everything, we bring ourselves a favorable result, which means that we need to be wise with these

things. And I think having this emergency meeting with Patrick, that David was the right thing to do. And his response was, in turn, the wise response, I think he's a very pragmatic person, and you can't be that successful in business as he is, and have, you know, an empire of value tainment and whatever, unless you are pragmatic like that. So I think the more we think about the collective interest, the more things are gonna go right for everybody.

I like, and it made sense on both sides, this is why this meeting was so important having this meeting now we can see like, what the way you were presenting everything, and then he was also he got into his very transparent, he was showing his emails, how he gets things, you know, the short amount of time does that and the other and you really not knowing on one end who this person on the other these Islamophobes careers long before and then you also, you know, now it's coming down to the time that you gotta you need to know, like, what's going on, so you can better prepare you so you can see things, you know, from both sides, and then at the end, and just coming together because

these people that were lined up, I mean, these are, these are career Islamophobes. These are people with blood on their hands. These are people who now you had the, you know, the Andrew Brevik was it. And he's mentioned in his, and there's Brevik, in his manifesto was mentioned these people. So this was very sensitive also, now that you I mean, this is not a problem for you at the end, this is something that's your specialty, and you've dealt with people like this. But it was nice to see how he had presented things. You could see where he was coming from you and then how everything just at the end, it came out to a positive ending. What are your thoughts about that? Absolutely. And I

think I mean, the way he presented it was that he had no idea who these people were and I have reason good reason to believe that especially the second person who's Rashid hammy me, he wouldn't know he was because he's most of his content is in the Arabic language. So that unless you have access to that I fairplay you won't know who he is. But these people will have had strong anti Islamic sentiments. And they, you know, they attack the Prophet of Islam. Not just that, not that not just the fact that they attack the Prophet of Islam and Muslim people, but they, they effectively try and make life harder for Muslim people in the West. I mean, some of the

organizations and what they're dealing with, they are making things harder for Muslims in the West. And in a way, we can't really deal with that. And

imagine having a, you know, a podcast where the premise of it is to try and create bridges. And you bring people who, frankly, are trying to break all bridges. I mean, these people who have no interest in collaborating with Muslim people.

It was it was a bit kind of off key from that perspective. But I think the fact that we explained to him who these people were, he understood at least where we were coming from, you know, why why would a Muslim in the first instance be angry that you've invited these two people, and then you've invited then you've done these kinds of things and then certain particulars were not very clear.

I

just added to the frustration, but he was very understanding. And we appreciate that. And that's what really subbies is a good negotiator. And I have to give him credit where credit's due.

And you see that at the same time, before that he was talking about he had Candace Owens on you heard a Candace Owens. And every time I see so many of these conservatives, Christians come on, and they talk about, you would think she's almost she's talking to in a way that for instance, she was talking about. And this goes in under the umbrella of things that we have in common that we can talk about, and you invite us to the table to talk about these things. See the Muslim perspective, she was talking about the demonic culture now that's affecting the youth, the over sexualization of children. I'm sure you're bright, you're like, Man, you got a lot to do. We got a lot to say on

this, right? Those women of selling themselves only fans, Instagram, they're just out there, but they're just naked. And looking at Kim Kardashian as others as role models, and how she was a part of that lifestyle. But she changed for the better the feminine, the feminism and the the emasculation of men, the mother being looked down instead of like a home engineer, you know, choosing and she was actually asked on his program, well, would you rather be a career woman or a home engineer, they say home engineer, I call it a home engineer, or a mother and she said a mother. And then she talked about so many of these things that we we just were on board with what would you

say? Absolutely. And that's what we should be looking for. We should be I mean, the Quran instruct us effectively, to look for common ground, I mean, that most common of grounds, we should be looking obviously, so he'd monotheism from a theological perspective and try and draw conclusions from that.

But these things, also things which are commonalities between Islam, and let's say, Christianity, or traditional versions of it. And at the end of the day, I mean, there's there's work to be done here, I think that we have kind of neglected the conservative community in the West, we've neglected them in the dour in a way, which isn't really, I think, justifiable, we need to look at them as individuals who can contribute and we can contribute to them. Because I think that from $1 perspective, from from a evangelizing perspective, we can bring a lot of them to our side, in fact, by just explaining to them that these are the ways that we live, a lot of people come Muslims by

looking at how we, as Muslims, live our lives. So I think there's a lot of work to be done.

And probably there's evidence to show I mean, I haven't got it in front of me, but that if you are going to collect converts, if you're like, you're more likely to do it from communities, which have these kinds of inclinations and belief systems in the first place, then, for example, from communities, which may be still debating whether or not biological sex are key determinants of actual sex of whether or not sex male and female is a thing, or is a social construct. So we're more likely to get people agreeing with Islam from let's say, the conservative side than people who still don't know what a male is, or a female is. And they think that everything is a social construct. So

we do need to look at these things properly. And we need to build bridges where bridges can be built, and access to be honest, new audiences. But we have to be able to do it on our terms, or at least on agreeable terms on fair and equitable terms. And that's what the purposes of that conversation was, because, quite frankly, mean, you Eddie and Ali Dawa, and all these kinds of people. If you look at the kind of languages that were available in all three of us and the Dow, now we're in a good place in that our, we're in a good place in the Dow, I mean, I just visited Turkey, and there is a particular channel called towards eternity. And we're doing kind of collaborations

with them, they've got three and a half million subscribers, just in a total language, they've got like one and a half million in English. And their turn channels got like 600 million channel views, almost, I mean, that is more than the Turkish population times five or six. I don't even know how that happened. But the point is, is that we're in a good place. Now we have an ecosystem, which covers 15 World Languages, and is seen by hundreds of millions of people. And, you know, on different platforms on social media, we could never have dreamed of this 20 to 30 years ago. This is unreasonable, because we would need to put millions and millions of not billions of dollars into

something like this for it to happen. But if we were to approach a media company and say, Look, we want to have half a billion views on you know, this particular language, so fine, but you'd need to bring to the table $10 billion, or 15 $20 billion, and you'd like for example, you need this or that. Allah has opened the door for us, where we can use the internet to give dower to people. And as such as an ecosystem, we have become an extremely formidable force in more than one languages, in many of the world languages, so we don't need in a sense, even if we don't have the exposure from these great big names. You

In America and these huge figures, like Jordan Peterson, or like Andrew Tay or like Patrick, but David or like Ben Shapiro, who we mentioned in the discussion, or any of these figures, we still are able to reach hundreds of millions of people. So we have something to bring to the table. And that's what I think they've recognized. And as such, I think we need to capitalize on that in ways which will, which will be win win for every community, because that is one of the laws of success. I think, Win win at the end of the day. Even Stephen Covey mentions in his seven highly effective laws of

success, or whatever the book is called, what to think Win Win is one of the one of the laws, we have to look at where we can benefit each other because there is a lot of benefit to be had.

I want to focus on this term with integrity, respect. And when people know when they we don't shy away from debate from discussions and getting the elephant I call it getting the elephant out of the room. And a lot of the differences that you would say I listed a lot of things that we can talk about, but I think there's not too many we can go one of the major things is what revolves around Jesus, you'll hear a lot of it's unfortunate a lot of Christian and this would help dispel those myths, and to put that wall down to break through those barriers where Christians will look at Muslims like the Antichrist, and many no don't know simple basic things that we actually when we say

when we say it, this is not something that we're trying to like win you over. But it's the truth. It's a pillar, it's one of the of our beliefs, articles of faith to believe in love Jesus, is this correct? That he was the Messiah, that He we How can you be Antichrist when you love Christ, that you believe in His return that you believe in his immaculate conception? It was born of Virgin Mary that he did many wondrous miracles all by the permission of God, and that we call him by what he was called in the Bible as a prophet, a mighty messenger, and we say peace be upon him when I did. I've done many shows of different Christians, one in particular, Owen, Benjamin, it comes to mind he was

on the Joe Rogan show famous comedian and actor, not actor, but comedian. Yeah, I mean, he says, I'm acting. He was with the louder Crowder, he was a script writer, and he knows many of the St. Patrick's people, Patrick knows he's on Joe Rogan's show, when me and him had just had a nice discussion going back and forth, Christian Muslim, and then he has his viewing audience, they call him the bears. They were like, Man, how in the world will we so so just brainwashed and so deceived. And they actually for 20 years, you read some of the things that they were saying, they're like, I cannot believe that we were thinking this way of Muslims, they're duped with everything else. They

don't believe, you know, the news. They call it fake news. But with this, they were swallowing it hook line and sinker. But just from us having a nice back and forth conversation. They were like, you know, it was like the veils are off. So that's why this is so important. Your your thoughts on that? I think a lot of the reason why is because of foreign policy. Like, honestly, if you look at what Republicans have had to do in the last 20 to 30 years in order to justify wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, which even Donald Trump nowadays, doesn't agree with him. And he doesn't agree with those wars he sees as a waste of American taxpayer money. But let's put that to the side. The point

is, is that in order to, to get people on board with such wars and to, to rally, public support, you need to dehumanize effectively, people, you need to make them the enemy. And so, of course, there's going to be a kind of a mixture of political rallying and also religious rallying, so they have to make Muslims and Islam the enemy, not just Muslims. And that's what I think, has created this rift within Republicans nowadays, Republicans in America, most likely are may have a negative impact on Islam because of some of the terrorism and some of the things that they want to or some of the kind of propagandists who have been trying to rally for these wars have used. And so what we want to show

is that this is you have to understand that it's not just Democrats, Republicans have to understand that it's not just Democrats and liberals who have been pulling the wool over their eyes. It's been their own, as well as been Republicans who've been pulling the wool over the eyes, and in fact, probably even more pernicious way, in some cases, especially to try and justify certain wars. And so this is an ample example. I mean, if you think of what other world religion, what other major world religion has as a pillar of faith, if you like, one of the things is you have to believe in the messengers and Jesus is one of the top high caliber messengers or the last minute Russell, as the

Quran calls them with the top high caliber prophets, the top ones. So if someone just believes in Jesus Christ, who just believes in the Immaculate Conception, the virginity, the perpetual virginity of Mary, if someone just believes in the fact that Mary existed, that Jesus existed, that he was the Messiah, that He raised, the dead with God's permission that he doesn't show the blind with God's permission. He killed the leper with got permission, and all those things. If so,

I'm on disbelief in those things, that they could not be a Muslim and disbelieve in those things. There's no other religion, which is a major world religion by way of demography, that x communicates a population for having these beliefs, Judaism. In fact, you must disbelieve in that Jesus, you know, a Jewish person today to believe that Jesus Christ was the Messiah, that would be a blaspheming thing to believe that would be a sacrilegious thing to believe. So on this issue, at least, from a Christian perspective, the Muslim position on Jesus Christ is much closer to them, then the Jewish position. But you wouldn't think that if you listen to some of these walk, war,

propagandists who want to make you believe that Christianity and Islam have nothing in common at all, which is absolutely false, because this is one of the deepest things that anyone can have in common, a figure his existence, the Messiah status, his prophetic status, because in the Bible, it says that he was

a messenger as well as you know, so they believed was a messenger, and all these things which are similar. This is something which I think that, you know, the Christian Republican community in the West, need to understand that there is no need for unnecessary hostility. You know, there is more commonality than one things, and one needs to look at things objectively now, removing, you know, emotion from the picture, and removing all these hostilities that you may have had injected into you buy these war propagandists for strategic interests, which you have been lied to believing would be the American interest. This is not the American interest. You've lost. The America has lost

billions, trillions of pounds in these wars. How much does it say this? Yeah, I mean, trillions of pounds in this war, they put the economy back. I mean, they went into Afghanistan to a place which is no American, zero American interest in Iraq, zero, killing innocent people, if, if the Americans, the good American people were able to see young Iraqi people being killed, children, women, and so on, they would no way and support this. But this has been kept away from them. So and even Donald Trump, as I say, who's now running, I'm not sure running for president. Again, he acknowledges this. And I think there's a growing trend within Republicans to acknowledge this fact. But that's where a

lot of the hostility has come from. If you understand that, then you understand that there's more work we can do, to build bridges and to understand each other properly, and to understand the religion of Islam properly. Because you cannot, you cannot coexist with someone who you don't understand. We're not asking for you to convert. I mean, that will be something we we would like no problem. Of course, we would like that. Because we believe that if you become a Muslim, that your sins will be forgiven all the time, we would love for you to come. But we are not forcing or pressuring, or whatever, trying to convince or sell the religion with a stamp. In fact, the opposite

is true. We just want you to know what it is. And then you can make a decision. But you need for that to be coexistence. You need to know what we're all about what Islam is, and have an objective neutral view of it, that it can make your decision. But where you're getting right now, Islamic information is from war propagators. And that should be something Republicans in America understand. That's beautiful. I like that analysis and just for someone to think you have a war you want to push. And Patrick when David he talks about this, he talks about what is it black wood and submitted to these industrial military industrial complexes and now look, if there's no wars, there's no money

to be made. So we got to make an enemy so you make the muscles enemy but most people they're not going to just want to go attack human beings on the cross of of the world. So then you got to demonize right, you got to demonize and make a fake boogeyman and people are starting to see see through this is a brilliant, brilliant how you put this together just couple more things. And then one more thing on this is stop what you have is many people trying to push their interpretation and have us swallow it. It's like someone coming along and saying no, they're saying I'm this type of Christian you believe this Daniel in the purchase is trying to push a que que que version type on to

the Christian they're trying to try to these Islamophobes and others trying to misinterpret the texts, cherry picking, putting things not in their proper place and then pushing this to the people you see a ton of this happening, don't you? Let us interpret our texts scholarly we have a true scholarly discussion the right way, you're not going to come and tell us how to interpret our religion. You see a lot of this happening. We do see a lot of that happening. And that's why I think a lot of the conversation needs to happen with people that effectively have the self dignity and integrity to say okay, what what did they say? I mean, look, there's two kinds of cases that are

made about Islam and Muslims and we have to separate them. There's theological cases and sociological cases. So the theological cases to say that okay, Islam cites X, Y and Zed. So the islamophobe may say

Well, let's just say the anti Muslim person may say, Islam states that you have to you can kill civilians, you can kill non combatants, right? That's the positioning. Okay, so that's what they're saying. And then they, the other one will say, that may the other person may go further and say, well, actually, Muslims believe in that as well. So Muslims believe in so not only does Islam say it, but Muslims believe it. So these are two separate claims, really, one is a theological claim, and one is a sociological claim. If we're if one is making a theological claim, then they have to consult the scriptures and they have to consult our tradition, in which case we will say, Okay, well

look, you know, the Prophet said, You cannot kill non combatants, 12345 blades out like that. But if they say Muslims believe now, that's a sociological claim. So if you bring out Pew Research and said, well, actually, according to Pew,

there are some countries when when they asked about ISIS 100% gave them an disapproval rate 100% of population of Muslims. I mean, that is so difficult to find in any thing polled. 100% of disapproval rating, right. So then that's a sociological claim. So if we say, Okay, well, whether it's a sociological claim, or a theological claim, you lose here, you cannot force this upon our populations and our people. But if you say, no, actually, we've read this verse. And it must mean that you guys believe this. And all of you are practicing to clear and as a collective to clear going on, and 100% disapproval rating on some countries and pure research just happens to be a

massive conspiracy, that the conversation must end there. Because then there's nothing we can do to try and convince you, you're effectively projecting and superimposing an image of Islam, which you want to be true, whether we try and disprove it to you, theologically or sociologically, or not. Whether we show you the evidence or not, you're always going to have the same opinion. And if some people in the American or Western populations want to believe that this is what Muslims believe, in order to justify whatever it is, was, it may be your hostilities, then that's where the conversation collapses. But as you said, they have to be Integris enough to be able to, to accept our basically

what we're saying about it. This is what we interpret this is how we interpret it. This is what the centers of power in the Islamic world say, if you say well as her may say this and Medina university may say this, and Deobandi may say this and networks will automatically say that, and these are major Center of Academic powers, but we think the Muslims, they're all lying about it.

In the classical tradition said this, and this caller, they're all lying about it, 100% disapproval rating some country muster model against ISIS, they will lying about it, there's nothing I can do to help you. In that case, what you're doing is you're, you're you're smashing your head against the mountain, and expecting a result. So if if the American people or the Western people want the truth, they're gonna have to start pulling the wool up, you know, off their eyes, and start looking at the truth with both eyes open and that's what we're calling them to. Last thing I want to mention two more points. One is when you said lying, this whole thing is just absurd. When you hear this term to

Kia, and now you know, even some Muslims now because there is certain things in Islam obviously, when you're trying to reconcile between people, you're more your wife costs you a bad meal, and then you're saying hey, no, honey, it's actually good when it's not that good. You know, even this this is true for Islam is and we know the evil of nature of you know how so many Hadith that you can bring over and over and statements of the liar This is somebody that, you know, is looks so down upon now, to keep being a concept that is not according to the Sunni according to the Orthodox, but you have some sect I believe she is who use this concept. This is about particular sector, the Shia,

but what do you have for people who now they turned they push this term? Or these Muslims? Because how are you going to sit at a table and have a nice discussion when in the back of his mind? He's thinking these guys are doing takia. So the trust is just not there? How do you address that? You can look at any religious tradition and find like Paul, for example, he says, I'm a Jew with the Jew and the Gentile with the Gentiles. I mean, there's many verses in the Bible, which can give you the impression that you can be pragmatic to light in order to lie if you want to do that. Yeah, well says that he says, my lie this is not to disrespect or anything but this is in the, in the Bible is

if my lie by by lying, I'm bringing people to the truth and how am I called a sinner? Exactly. So there's lots of Paul does this, you know, ad nauseam in the in his books, that is 30 That's actually the key. That's the key if we want to be on this has to heal. Yeah. But I would never try and superimpose this. Okay, well, Paul says this in the Bible, and therefore, Christians, you know, a 2 billion Christians around the world, they all have read this, they've all interpreted it that way. And therefore they all do interfaith, if you sit with a Christian, there's a culture of lying that they believe that will be a very unjust thing. unjust, no, we won't do that. We've we've met

Christians, we know like, we live with them, you know, effectively in our countries and our places. And at the end of the day, it's not the behavior that we have seen exhibited by these people. So at the end of the day, I think there has to be a degree of integrity, and degree of honesty and sincerity when we're approaching these things. Because when people come and say that oh, you must be saying this because of this and they create a cause effect. And then fake sociological case. And say, well, whatever you say here is null and void because we

As you're imposing to PA, then this effectively stunts the conversation, what we want to do is want to have a conversation with people, where they respect where we're coming from, or expect our interpretations where they understand why we're coming to our conclusions. And that's really it. And so, if we're able to have these conversations with, with Christians and Jews and other people, then that's the first step towards coexistence. It's a proper step towards coexistence. They need to be able to understand that in our in our, in our faith tradition, we wouldn't lie about what our faith constitutes. There's very severe warning about that. In fact, the Quran says, We're intercooler

Allah hemella Tala moon. Now one of the worst things is that you say about Allah, that which you don't know. And the Prophet Muhammad Salah Solomon, he said that when Kesava Allah Mohammed and forget about Mikado, human and not whoever lies about me intentionally let him prepare his seat in the hellfire. And this has been rated by more than 42 companions is one of the most underrated Hadith in all of Hadith traditions, whoever lies about me intentionally, then let him Let him prepare his seat in the hellfire. And as you've mentioned, there's so many Hadees talking about the importance of speaking the truth, and that if you're lying, it leads to the Hellfire effectively,

and all this kind of thing. So we wouldn't lie and compromise on our religion. That would be, that'd be weak, that will be a weak behavior. And in fact, the Quran says that if we did that, that Allah would replace us with people who will will I have funa, low Metalla him, they don't fear the blame of the blamers. So we don't fear any of the opponents. We tell people what we think our belief is. But as I say, they must have the integrity to come forward. And listen to what we have to say. And that's it. And this is the first step towards coexistence. Of course, the interlocutors that we're that we're going to come we don't even mention their names, but they don't have this approach.

Unfortunately, both of them have this approach of super imposing Islamic beliefs on populations, both of them want us or want the Western people to believe that in fact, if the populations, these these are dangerous people that Muslims are dangerous people for X, Y and Zed reason this works isn't their books. And they will believe this, they will do in this lying and deceptive and this kind of paranoia. You know that there's a planting on the people and pushing and encroaching on the on the population is exactly what stunting our growth as communities and our ability to coexist. And that's what happened when you got paid provocateur is you got these paid the Islamophobes This is

how they make their livelihood. So obviously, they have to do this and they're giving the street the fringe element interpretation on to the general public. We got to cut out a couple of things came to my mind, the Quran, you mentioned the crown for beta Word of God Almighty, the creator of love. You mentioned it and it came to me the passage of the Quran describing the Christians in there. Do you know which one I'm talking about the passage of those who are devout in worship? And when they hear the words of God? Can you go and share that with us? Can you also share another thing of the Prophet Muhammad's dialogue even in his own mosque with the Jews and the Christians? And three when he saw

the injustice is happening in his community, how he made a pact and he worked together against those injustices?

Well, the actually there's been many packs that have been done between the Prophet Muhammad Salah Salem and the people of the book. And this is something which a lot of people don't want to admit. But it's mentioned in our most early sources it which happens already has, actually, who was the one of the people that were entrusted with codifying the Sunnah. One of the earliest state authorized codifies of the sunlight and Shahab, zaharie, he has an entire book, which details inside of it the Constitution of Medina, and how the Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu Sallam actually in enshrined rights in this pack to agreement between Muslims and Jewish people who are another minority group, with

with the Prophet Muhammad wa salam, and that he would protect their wealth and their their lives. And this is a very famous passage, which they find very difficult to deal with. And a lot of them when I was reading their works, I found that they found it extremely difficult to deal with. And so this is one aspect that Islam has always allowed Christians and Jews to live within their own frameworks. In fact, this is how deep it is to live within their own frameworks to have their own course, where they can have their own books, legislating for their own communities. Yes. And they were not forced to become Muslim, which is what some people say. The climax is clear that aircraft

didn't cut away and that was the middle of it, that there is no compulsion in religion. That truth has been made clear from falsehood. And the Quranic message about Jews and Christians is that they are not all the same, Liesl, so and they're not all the same. And that some of them you can trust and some of them you cannot trust. This is the kind of nuance that that is actually it shows high level precision and sophistication in dealing with a major population instead of what they're doing. In fact, because they say all Muslims are like this are most Muslim

other dangerous people, that's actually unsophisticated sociological analysis. Aside from being false is unsophisticated sociological analysis. The Quran has a different kind of methodology. It says that some of them in men who be dinar in you or de la you d like that if you give them one dinar, they will not give it back to you.

And some of them that if you if you give them a cantar, which is effectively like a hold of money, you add the lake, you give it back to you, you know, so, so in other words, some Christians and Jews are trustworthy, some of them they're not trustworthy even if you give them one coin, they will not give it to you had to modem Talia Kadima, you have to be here watching over him in order for them to do that. So Christians or Jews, according to Islamic conception, are not all the same. That's probably the one of the most fair things anyone can say about anyone, sociologically, and Islamically. The same thing can be said about Muslims themselves. The Quran says minimum,

minimum, moccasin minimum Saba humble, minimum volume only and I've seen women who Mahkota say Don't move. Minimum Saba carbohydrate. There are three types of Muslims mentioned Quran, some of them oppressive to themselves, some of them are mid mid range, and some of them are racing in good deeds. So some Muslims themselves on all the same Christians and all the same as us and all the same. And Muslims are all the same in temperament and personalities and behavior. And so this is, this is the sophisticated sociological slash, psychological analysis that the Quran puts forward that we as Muslims believe in, and that the verse that you were mentioning, was talking about, some of them

will hear the verses, some of the Christians and Jews, they will hear the verses, to feel it to whom in a dilemma, they will cry when they hear those verses, because of what they have recognized from the truth. You see, so there's there is so much praise. In fact, it's not just there's this praise of the clergy. Let's be honest, I mean, there's methyl Athena homeo Torah, someone Emmylou Castillo hamari as far as some people that have been entrusted with the Torah, humble Torah thermomechanical and they weren't they were not sufficient in holding that they're like donkeys with with books on their backs. So there's, there's criticism of the the Jewish clergy and how they dealt with the

books away, don't let the negative guna Kitab add him to Maya coluna halaman and delay. Yes, sir OBE seminar kalila. So woe to those who buy the purchase the book with their own hands, and they say it's from God so they can buy with it a paltry price. Find that by the water, other water him, they threw the book behind their back on another verse that says, you have refundable Kelly Malmo day, that they change the word outside of this context. So this, they've changed the word they were not entrusted with it. There's lots of criticism of the Jewish clergy in the Christian clergy. But there's also lots of praise. And that is a healthy analysis. Unfortunately, in some court in some

quarters, and these Republican areas, we don't find this healthy analysis, and it's high time, we stopped doing that. And this has been a criticism by many Christians themselves, they're seeing the sell out, you know, of what's happening, you know, with the alphabet movement and the churches and allowing, you know, certain people coming into church and disrupting, you know, the relationship between male and female. So, they also see themselves and the crowd is making this beautiful balance. With that said,

anything else, we had this emergency meeting, looking forward to the great things inshallah for a greater good in store, having this meeting with Patrick was very, very,

came up very nice to watch the space, they're gonna see, because if you're going to be co host as well, I mean, some of that is going to be watching your space that didn't show space, watch my space, haha, space alley that was channel all these channels, because that's what they should be subscribing to this channel so that all the notifications will come up, especially the deen show, which is one of the you know, the most important Islamic channels on the internet 100. And I'm sure everybody's struggling if they haven't, shame on them. But that's something else. I'm only kidding. But the point is, is that I think that if you watch this space and see what happens if we get

favorable terms, and if we're able to mitigate everything, we're not in a rush, because at the end of the day, we're negotiating on behalf of the community, we're not doing it for ourselves. It's not a bit about a bit of Limelight here and there, because we're kind of satiated from all of that anyway, that's not something that we need of. But what we will do want to do is create balance, and create community cohesion, build bridges, and put forward the Islamic message of Tawheed which we hope we will be able to do to greater audiences. So people will watch the space and see if we can actually do that. And it will be pretty epic. I think if we do

the show Lagavulin, thank you my brother. Just like us. Salaam aleikum, Macomb scatter.

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