Liar Lunatic Lord
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Jesus was his messenger
Bismillah Alhamdulillah Salam Alaikum. Peace be with you. You are watching the deen show. And we are here trying to help you develop a better understanding about Islam, which is the fastest growing way of life in the world today. Yet most misunderstood, but after people dig a little bit, and they start to join us here weekly on the D show, they get inspired, they get happy, and many even accept this wonderful way of life that was lived by all the messengers of God because they all brought and taught the same message, to acquire peace by submitting your will to the owner appease the one God and today, the crucial question many people start to ask, when we provide all the rational, logical
evidence that Jesus peace be upon him, was a mighty messenger and no way was he divine with God. In no way did he call people to worship him people ask, well, then what was he a liar, a lunatic? Or was he Lord he had to be one of them? Well, we're going to be addressing this very important question. When we come back. We'll be answering with Dr. Gerald Dirks, former Christian preacher, teacher Deacon who finished from the prestigious Harvard University with a divinity degree We'll be right back with more here on the deen show. He
is His Messenger
Jesus was his messenger
know why I did that maybe it's maybe it's just a break the ice. Peace be with you. Assalamu alaikum MPs have on you, brother. Thank you for joining us here again on the deen show my pleasure, we are going to get straight into the topic because time is short. And we want to for those who want to know a little bit more about you they can go to the D show comm you have your own private section. We've done several shows with you in the past. You have your biography there so people can read and learn about who you were what you've done. But today, the crucial question is many people are asking, and we provide all the evidence from the Bible from the verbatim Word of God that Jesus, and
no Muslim is a Muslim unless he believes in Jesus. He was indeed a mighty messengers of God, who called people to the same message, worship the Creator, not as Christian, then people ask, well, then what was he? Was he a liar? Was he a lunatic? Crazy? If not, then you had to be Lord, what do we have to say? Well, you left off the fourth choice, which is none of the above. None of the above, none of the above. And as Muslims, that's certainly our answer. He wasn't a liar. He wasn't a lunatic. And no, he wasn't our Lord. If by any stretch of the imagination, you mean to imply divinity? A master teacher? Couldn't Lord mean that also? Well, they're not implying that. But can
it Lord via like, you know, like, you have like today, you don't have Lords judges are called lords. How is it a court now? Yeah, whether whether it's with a capital L or lowercase Oh, yeah. In terms of a master teacher, certainly. We Muslims would have no objection, no objection to this being referred to that way, but as a divine Son of God, not at all know that. That's where we would draw the line. So what do we do now? And, well,
you know, I think we point out that we certainly respect Jesus, we accept him as one of the messengers of God bringing revelation from God to us. But we do not accept Him as as being God, or being divine himself. Now, some people will go and look at the Bible. Now, I want to make a note, correct me, you're our teacher here. You're a Bible scholar, you know this book quite well, very well. You spent years and years and years and you got a masters of divinity in it. We as Muslims, once have consciously chosen to submit to the one God, we believe that there is part of some of God's Word in the Bible, but there's also the word of prophets, his stories and people we don't even
know who are right. Is that true? Right. I mean, you know, many of the books of the Bible were anonymously written as far as we know.
And sure, we believe that there's probably a lot of divine revelation to be found in the Bible. Yeah. But there's probably also some other things as well, that we can attribute to God. Correct. Okay. But now to entertain even some of these verses that people will bring, because I think that in any court of law, if you can't produce the witness, the case is thrown out. But we're still entertaining this. So some people will say, you know what, and we've done a show on this in the past, they can go to the deen show.com. It's called is Jesus God and you clearly you've shown through history, the early Christian sex and this was another myth that many people
We'll try to say no, all the Christians at that time believe that this is also a myth. Absolutely. You know that we know that we're Jewish Christian groups that flourished, including the church of Jerusalem under James, the righteous.
These were Jewish Christian groups, they denied the divinity of Jesus, the Libyan Knights would be another one, the naza reigns Not to be confused with the modern denomination of the same name, the Alka sights, you know, these were groups that basically denied the divinity of Jesus. Now, in the past show, the one I mentioned is Jesus God, we went over some of the common arguments versus people will use and you basically you explain them in their context and show that No, these are more like kind of like there wasn't the gore shot, or shot or shot? Yeah. Where it's nothing explicit. It's something that you can deduce whatever you wanted to do. Yeah, you project onto it your own from
your own self. Yeah. But now there's a few that we didn't cover. Okay. So one will mention, like, let's say that, you know, they took up stones in the Bible to stone him, because he was claiming he was God. What do you have to say about this? Well, let's look at the actual passage. Yeah. You know, and let's look at it in context. And what you're referring to is from the 10th chapter of john, yeah. The Jews took up stones against, took up stones again, to stone him. This is john chapter 10, verses 31 through 36. Jesus replied, I have shown you many good words from the Father, for which of these are you going to stone me? The Jews answered, It is not for a good work that we are going to
stone you but for blasphemy, because you though only a human being, or making yourself God? Jesus answered, is it not written in your law? I said, You are God's, if those to whom the words of God came are called gods, and the scripture cannot be an old? Can you say that the one whom the father's has sanctified and sent into the world is blaspheming? Because I said, I am God, such as john chapter 10, verses 31 through 36. Now, if you're going to take that passage, as a statement that Jesus is claiming divinity, you're making a number of assumptions. Yes. And let's just delineate what those assumptions are. First of all, you're assuming that john or whoever wrote the gospel of
john, is recording the passage accurately? That's the first assumption. Secondly, you're assuming that Jesus actually said this as the second assumption, and in fact, there are some reasons to doubt that Jesus actually said this. So for example, when he says, In this quotation, I said, You are gods.
he's quoting here,
the Old Testament. But what's fascinating is he's quoting from the Greek Septuagint. Yes, he's not quoting from the Hebrew Masoretic text. he's quoting from the Greek
because the words are identical to the Greek Septuagint, not to the Hebrew.
Now, why would Jesus peace be upon him?
and Palestine in the first century, the quoting from the Greek Old Testament, instead of from the Hebrew?
I mean, this raises real questions. Yeah.
according to the statement, as we have it, Jesus answered, is it not written in your law? I said, You are God's well reference to your law, the Torah, but the Torah is Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy, just the first five, this is the first five that's the door. Yeah. And then the second division of Hebrew Scriptures, the name of the game, and the third divisions that ketuvim.
This quotation, and actually comes from the 82nd chapter of Psalms, verse six or seven, that's not part of the Torah, and that's part of the ketuvim.
Now, from all accounts, Jesus was a very learned scholar
of Hebrew Scripture, yes. And for him to make a claim that something is coming from the Torah. But in fact, it's coming from Psalms is a little hard to understand how that sort of mistake could be made. So again, that's the second reason, we might well question whether Jesus actually even said these words.
But the second thing we need to consider altogether is does the statement mean Jesus is God? Well, let's look at what he said. Is it not written in your law? I said, You are gods, if those to whom the words of God came are called gods, and the scripture cannot be at all Can you say that the one whom the Father is sanctified?
sent into the world is blast feeding because I said I am God's son. He's contrasting. I am God's Son, but you're called gods.
Well, if you're saying the latter means divinity, God, Son, then so does the former. In other words, everybody's got, yeah. So I think we have to look at the context, context context of what Jesus is actually saying. Certainly from my reading of it, there's no statement of divinity being played, and many others, not just yours, many others would also line up in conjunction with what your Yeah, again, as we were saying before, when we start looking at some of this stuff, it's like looking at a Rorschach inkblot. People are going to project onto it from them on their own. So what's their desire is wanting sure what they want us to see. Okay, we're gonna take a break. We'll be right back
with more with Dr. Gerald Dirks here on the teacher, no speech is better than to do that. call people to Allah and to do the word no speech is better. No, nothing is better than that. Is it true that if one person on the law giving you the ability to guide someone, the last permission the creator's permission that is better than everything in this world, but in the whole world and everything that's in it in another nation, it's better than the best of wealth, but if we really felt that that he would not be get out getting out, and this is something that we encourage all the MSA all the dowel organizations, the machines to get this we want to print when they are we give
these to the non missus for free for free for free Warner Brothers.
I am not afraid to say
I am not afraid to stand alone.
I am not afraid to say
I am not afraid to stand alone.
I'm not afraid.
I'm not afraid.
I'm not afraid.
Back here on the deen show with Dr. Gerald Dirks. And we're answering the question, Jesus peace be upon him who no Muslim is a Muslim unless he believes in Jesus. We believe in the miracles that he did that he gave life to the dead with God's permission, that he healed the sick, that he was indeed a mighty messenger of God. But nowhere in the Bible or any scripture, Did Jesus ever claim that he was divine that he was a literal Son of God. And you also in many of other shows proved historically, that many of the Christian sects at that time there was an adoption, his theory he was subordinate to God. So the evidence is there, that proves that they can go to the deen show.com and
look under Dr. Gerald.
Section is Jesus God amongst all the topics that we did? Now continuing on? There are also prophecies that people tried to link from the Old Testament. And the one we want to cover something in Isaiah. And they'll try to link it back to the New Testament and say, Look, look, look, look here the prophecy came fulfilled. And he's God.
Do you have a specific prophecy in the one in Isaiah talking about the kingdom? He'll be on his shoulder? Oh, okay. Yeah, this is the ninth chapter of Isaiah, verse six, for a child has been born for us. A sudden given to us authority rests upon his shoulders, and he is named Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father. principes. sighs a embeds the one. That's the one. Okay. And people want to say, Well, this is Jesus. And I say, look at that mighty God. Well, look at the next phrase, Everlasting Father, Everlasting Father, yeah. Now, wait a minute, you can't pick and choose here. This verse is not a buffet, no, no, you take everything that's there. Wonderful,
Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father. So we tell him about the one guy
you know, unless somehow trinitarians are going to want to claim that Jesus is the father and not the son, then you can't really make this piece of Scripture apply to Jesus. And this is in our past show you says something about this being a heretical statement, saying that Jesus was the father.
Or something in that text, where we're to believe that Jesus is God, that he's actually God. Giving and not separate in a trinity of you. Oh, Jesus is God period period. Yes. Without without recognizing that Jesus is also human. Yes. Yeah. That that's officially heresy. And that's what national Christianity traditional Christianity Oh, yeah. Yeah, there were three basic positions or the nature of Jesus.
That were fought about theologically the first few centuries. One was Jesus's God, period. Yeah. The other is Jesus is both God and man simultaneously. That's basically the official position of traditional Christianity. And the third position is Jesus man, although a man who was selected as a recipient of God's revelation and stood in a special relationship to God, yeah. So how do you close off this? Now this is, this is this argument is done, the one you just covered in Isaiah, this is talking about if you look at and you add those extra words at the end, this is not talking about Jesus. Well, I'm not adding extra words. This was in the verse. Yeah. Yeah. Everlasting Father, he
is named Everlasting Father. So this cancels this out now. Well, it certainly cancels out any Trinitarian possibility if you're saying that Jesus is the Father, okay. I mean, because the Trinitarian concept is easy. The sod This is easy to see. That's a blatant contradiction. Again, we covered this before about I am another one again. Now that's brought up that before Abraham was I am What do you got to say about this? Well, again, let's let's look at the actual verse. Yeah, Jesus said to them, very Truly, I tell you, before Abraham was, I am. So they picked up stones to throw it in. But Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple, john eight, verse 15, a
number of assumptions that are being made, and we need to highlight what those assumptions are, by those who are saying this somehow shows that Jesus is God.
an assumption that some Christians are making here anyway, is that when this verse says, I am,
before Abraham was I am, it's referring back to Exodus three, verse 14, God said to Moses, I am who I am. Yeah. And He further said that, shall you say to the Israelites, I am has sent me to you? Well, again, we're assuming the fact goes back there. We don't know that. That's an assumption. You know, the I am an exodus is in Hebrew. The I am in john is Greek. We do not know that a literal translation was made from what Jesus would have spoken, which was Aramaic, to the Greek.
Plus, you know, there are a lot of Bible scholars who say, you know, the IM translation in Exodus is not quite accurate. You know, it sort of gets the gist, but
might be more accurate to say something on the order of
bring him to being or something on that order. There's about three or four different technical variations of how that phrase can be transferred. And again, this is nothing explicit. This is nothing straightforward. God doesn't beat around the bush. And have you like, you know, try to figure it out, you know, give you like hints here and there. Oh, no, no. And you know, some people would argue, Well, look, if Jesus was before Abraham, oh, what else could he be? Yeah, besides God. But again, you're making assumptions. And one of the assumptions that you're making is this, there is no such thing as the pre existence of souls. Yeah. And in point of fact,
you know, there are many Muslims, who believe that there was pre existence of souls, for all mankind. Yeah. And they often refer to a verse from the Quran. When your Lord brings offspring from out of the loins of the children of Adam, he makes them first bear witness about themselves by asking them Am I not your Lord? Quran seven, verse 172. So pre existence of souls. Yeah. Is how that versus being read by many people. And we have a following Hadeeth Aida narrated the Prophet Muhammad said, souls before they became united with bodies were like assembled armies. And afterwards, they were dispersed and sent into the bodies of mankind. Yeah, that's from the Muscat. And from the
muslin of Ibn Hanbal. We have another Hadeeth, which perhaps we can get to in a moment. Tell us before you get to that now. We have a go ahead finishes. We have a few more, okay. And it's been Malik said that the Prophet said it will be said to a man from the people of the fire on the Day of Resurrection. If you owned all that is on the earth, would you pay it as ransom? He will reply, yes, God will say, I ordered you with what is less than that, when you were still in Adam's loins that is associated with me.
And I will Herrera narrated that the Prophet said, When God created Adam, he wiped items back and every person that he will create from him until the Day of Resurrection fell out from his back. So we have this pre existence of souls. Yeah. So for Jesus
before Abraham was, I am,
you know, could well be pre existence of soul. Absolutely. And again, God Almighty is not the author of confusion. He's not trying to confuse it with God Almighty says worship Me alone, right? He would have said Trinity, he would have said, crucifixion, I'm dying. But none of this is there. It's clear worship the one God, the same guy that Jesus worship Moses, Abraham, and the last and final messenger problem on peace be upon him alone and not his creation. That's always been the same message. Yes. Tell us now, a few more points before we cut to a break. You know, we covered these in the other show, and people can see it. The topic is Jesus God, you covered it. But some people just
briefly touch upon this to people that didn't see this. And maybe they might not get a chance to go to the website for beginning was the Word the Word was the god no, no, that john one one. They mentioned this. This is a big one for beginning was the word that word was the God the God became flesh.
In the beginning was the Word. Yes. and the Word was with God and the God the Word was with God. Yes. But not the Word was God. No, the Word was with with God. Yes. It's this goes back to what you were just saying, wasn't it?
And and this is seems like duality not Trinity. Yeah, at this point. I mean, if you if you're going to take the word or the logos, yeah. as being a divine.
First of all, you have to deal with that with statement.
But yeah, we still haven't gotten to the Holy Spirit. Yeah. Trinitarian Christianity. Yeah. And Christianity didn't get to the Holy Spirit. Until Well, after the Council of Nicea. Yeah, and 325 Council of Nicea basically talked about the nature of Jesus didn't formulate much of anything about the Holy Spirit. And we're gonna take a break. We'll be right back with more with Dr. Joe Dirks here on the dean show. He is the lead Dean. Coming to the truth requires two things. It requires deep thinking that you've already done but it requires another step. And that's courage. If you have the truth, but you don't have courage, you won't stand up for the truth. And that's as good as standing
up for falsehood.
I would say this thing that you just told me, it's not in the Scripture, and they would say a marginal note added by scribe. Yeah, okay. We know that. And I'd be thinking, if you know, this is not the Bible. Why are you preaching it as if it's gospel truth.
I started out actually, in high school, I was a born again, Christian. I accepted Christ as my Lord and Savior, as we used to say and I, I became very committed as an evangelical Christian and I went off to Moody Bible Institute for college, which was a fundamentalist Bible College. After that I went to Wheaton College, which is a liberal arts college, it's Billy Graham's alma mater, it's and have angelical school. So I had very solid angelical Christian commitments. And eventually, I got a seminary degree and I was a pastor of a Baptist Church for a year.
But gradually, for a large number of reasons, I started to question some of the assumptions that I had about the faith. For a long time, I thought that the Bible was inspired and inerrant, that there were no mistakes in the Bible. But as I engaged in historical research on the Bible, as I was getting my PhD in New Testament studies at Princeton Theological Seminary, I started finding mistakes in the Bible. And this this cut away at my assumptions that the Bible was an errand. And then I started questioning other parts of my faith is Jesus really divine? is a really a trinity back here in a deep show with Dr. Gerald Dirks, the key question Jesus, peace be upon him liar,
lunatic or Lord, none of the above. As we stated, he's no way indeed, not a liar. He is not a lunatic. And Lord, if You met what we said earlier teacher, like all the messengers of God, they were teaching people how to worship God, then we agree, but if you say, Lord divine, not at all, exactly. Now tell us, For God so loved the world that He sent His only begotten Son that whoever believes in Him shall have eternal life, the preachers up on a podium, they're saying, look, look, look, and they're given this verse, what do you have to say? Well,
first of all be gotten does not appear in all versions. No. Some manuscripts delete the door be gotten entirely I
think we have to look contextually.
You know, throughout the Bible, we see all sorts of people being referred to as set of God or child of God. Yeah. You know,
David is referred to as Son of God.
son of Joseph, peace be upon him, referred to as a child of God, etc. Well, we have numerous people throughout the Old Testament re referred to as Son of God, the Israelite people as a whole referred to as the children of God.
Basically, when you said someone was the Son of God, or the child
of God, within the context of first century Palestine, you're basically saying, there is a very pious and righteous man. And that's all you were saying. That's it. Yeah, that's in the context. Yeah, historically, I think now, psychologically, if we look at this from another totally different perspective, people attach their selves to Jesus, and we love him. Yes. And no Muslim, as I said earlier, is a Muslim unless he believes in Jesus, but people just wanting so much to believe this. They've been taught this, this has been instilled in them, and they develop, you know, this relationship they feel with Jesus, and now they're deducing this verse, no matter if we go on for
another two hours or a day. And we'll hopefully for the sincere person by now he's, he's got it. But the other person just holding on so tight to this psychologically is there? You know, from another perspective, why do you think people do this?
Well, yeah, one thing that happens is how the Bible is translated. Yeah. You know, if you look at in most versions of the Bible, you look at the New Testament, if it's referring to Jesus, the Son of God, like in the verse that we quoted earlier, you know, they put a capital S on son, that capital SS and then the Greek Yeah, yeah, that's something that translators sticking in to make sure you interpret the passage a certain way. But that's not actually in the Bible. You know, the Greek doesn't have capital, lowercase distinctions. Yeah. What I'm thinking, look at this, you know, when you you formed God into your mind, and your life around that, now you've gotten comfortable, you're
making your own way, you're doing your own thing. And this now you got the JC gokart, you get to throw everything on his back, which now, you know, it alleviates some of maybe the the set the the the responsibility that you're supposed to have, you know, and you don't want to change your ways. I'm not going to get into nobody's heart. But you can see like, somehow where, you know, this is convenient. Now, I could do my own thing. You know, God, I made it into my mind how I feel that he should be and now I'm stuck on it. Can this be possibly something that's going on? Well, yeah. And there's there's certainly that there's also the aspect that, you know,
there's the sense of assurance, assurance, that's it that
Trinitarian Christianity offers, you know, if you believe in Jesus as the Son of God, and accept the sacrifice he allegedly made for you on the cross, then you are assured of salvation. Yes. Doesn't matter what else? Yeah, you know, you've got it me. This is your get out of hell card free. Yeah. To use it a paraphrase from monopoly.
Islam doesn't offer that level of assurance. No, you know, because Islam says, look, you have to watch how you live your life. You have to believe correctly, that there's only one God one God and worship that one God.
But you have to live your life correctly. Yes. You cannot sin against God, you cannot see him against your fellow man. Yes, you know, you have to live correctly. This is all gonna fit onto a scale on the Day of Judgment.
Now, fortunately, for all of us, God's mercy is also going to enter into that equation. Otherwise, it'd be a lot of us, and a lot of very bad shape. Yes. But there is still this issue of accountability. For one's life that's there in a slump. Definitely. And so the question, can we say that it's been answered, liar, lunatic or Lord, none of the above? None of the above? Yeah. But what mighty messenger of God, mighty messenger of God, etc. He had mentioned before, you know, teacher, Master Messiah.
Let me complete my thought and I'll get back to Messiah, teacher, Master, etc. It's interesting to see what that word actually is and the text, you know, and it's basically Rabbi rabbi, teacher rabbi. Yeah. You know, Jesus being referred to as Rabbi Yeah. Now in terms of Messiah, Messiah, which means Christ also. Well, Christ is the Greek Greek
version of the Hebrew word, Masha. Yeah, or which we say Messiah, so we believe he was the Messiah. Yeah, of course. Quran tells us, he's the Christ, the Word of God, cut he's a word of God, but in Word of God, in the sense that we're told in the Quran that in the miraculous creation of the virgin birth, God says Be
and it is, does this is created in the, in the womb of Mary? Yes, we're out of time. And people if they want to invite you to do a lecture to you know, how can they get ahold of you? They can contact me at Dirks online books.com Thank you once again for being with us. My pleasure, brother, God Almighty, a lot of words.
And we got to answer another very, very important question. Today it was was Jesus peace be upon him liar, lunatic or Lord and it's
None of the above. He was indeed a mighty messenger of God who came with the same message that all the messengers of God taught to worship the one God, the one create tour and not what he created. Be thankful to him, be grateful to him and do all the good. Prove by action that you love God because Talk is cheap, and you're gonna be held accountable, because there's a day of judgment. And if you do good, you strive for good. You'll have paradise, you'll get God's grace and God's mercy, but you got to prove it through actions. You got to walk the walk, talk the talk, and continue to tune in every week here to the deen show to learn more. We'll see you next time. God willing peace be unto
you is the main gene. One of the beautiful things about our religion of Islam is the emphasis on direct ritual and prayer to God directly. There is no intermediary the lights will go on after the party and the party will end. It's very simple and very clear. There are no superstitious rituals, no strange incantations The time is running out we might not make it till tomorrow and this is something that we need to think about. No speech is better than to do that call people to Allah and to do the work no speeches better no nothing is better than that. Is it true that if one person on the log giving you the ability to guide someone the last permission the creator's permission that is
better than everything in this world but in the whole world and everything that's in it in another generation it's better than the best of wealth but if we really felt that he would we would not be get out giving and this is something that we encourage all the MSA all the dowel organizations the machines to get this we want to print more we give these to the non missus for free for free for free one our brothers in humanity
eats Cohn aids lay everybody sleepy.
Arise and ask a lot of thinking me own law you see. Oh, you know, all the sins I do. I turn to you to forgive my sins.
runs away. Ola. Guy me