For Those Left Behind- A Webinar on Death and Grief

Hi

everyone, I'm Michael

hamdu Lillahi Rabbil Alameen whatever we want it in our lives I mean what happened about 250 and a lot more study was sent them of Africa out of the Costa Rica Muhammad sallallahu alayhi wa sallam. While early he was lucky he was Selim Tasneem and Kofi Allah

Subhan Allah this is not our typical webinar and I think it's because it's not our typical time and I wanted to actually start off today by making dua for

some of the recent deceased members of our community and of our European family and the broader family in Charlottesville just to make sure obviously we you know, if you go through the the social media feeds that you have right now you notice that this person passed away and this person passed away and so it kind of looks that way for most people now as you're going through the various social media feeds and we actually wanted to begin inshallah Tada first and foremost, by making dua for all of them and less parents, I forgive and have mercy upon our loved ones and make it easy for those that have been left behind and make it easy for us to be guided to that which is most pleasing to

Him. subhanho wa Taala and allow us to have the best of endings ourselves along I mean, I'm particularly Dr. Eocene Mohammed who is a senior fellow at European Sinhala, his wife passed away from COVID 19 May Allah subhanaw taala grant her shahada May Allah subhanaw taala allow her to be in a dose of art and make it easy for him and his family. And so today was actually the janazah of his wife. And our hearts are with him. And his sister Bibi Han in Houston is, is ill. And I mentioned sister Bibi, particularly because she's someone that does a lot of good for the community. And Houston very well known for her work and services and social services and just being someone that

does a lot. And, and her COVID-19 symptoms have become severe. So we ask Allah Subhana Allah to grant her she fought. And all of those, all of those that are ill may lost contact, cure them. Allama mean. So our eyes are with all of you. We know that many of those that are watching tonight are watching to try to get some more closure. So I want to sort of walk back and talk about how this series came about once again in sha Allah Tada.

This series came about due to the amount of questions that resembled one another as a result of the recent

uptick in deaths that we have had in our community. So people are asking very similar questions to one another. And so we wanted to put together a resource where we could have some of the most commonly asked questions about death, about grieving about our loved ones, to help us not just cope, but to help us grow. Because the goal is ultimately to grow, the goal is to get closer to Allah subhanaw taala as a result of it all, and the goal is to not just get closure in regards to the death of our loved ones, but also to gain a sense of motivation to move forward and to do that which is best for us and best for them. In the cases that we are able to. And subhanAllah the series came

together very quickly. And I can tell you that it could have been 50 videos and it would not have been enough evidenced by the fact that just through the question form that was given to you when you registered for the webinar. We had hundreds and hundreds of questions and they were overwhelming. And so the idea was to try to answer the most common questions that are asked but at the same time inshallah Tata to offer perspective, in the broadest sense possible and and Hamdulillah. We're blessed with the team that we have here to be able to speak about this issue in a very wholesome sense. And the people that we have here today, the speakers that we have here today, we did not have

the formal type of prep that we usually have for a webinar, we didn't have our pre session, we didn't really talk about what we were going to talk about because we wanted to be very natural. We wanted this to be a very human conversation at the same time and shot a lot to

offer perspective through the unique pain that that some of the machines that are with us today have also been feeling in this recent pandemic. And so hamdulillah we're blessed to be able to have a few perspectives here. Sister Najwa and sister sada are both here. And they'll give us what I think is so crucial. How to Cope from a mental health perspective from an from an emotional perspective, because that's usually presents inherently presents in the 50 questions that are even being asked. So how to help us see through these things with perspective, from that perspective, are obviously merging the concepts of the Quran and the Sunnah in which is something that handler they were both

able to do in the trauma series and with much of the work that they

They've been that they've been doing it European Institute,

Sheikh Abdullah, and mostly that man, both, obviously are scholars of the deen and Hamdulillah that we can benefit from and they probably be on a webinar anyway. But both have been affected by loss very recently, themselves, Sheikh Abdullah, having lost his father, and then a sister very recently, with the other man having lost his brother And subhanAllah none of it COVID-19 It's just it's been a, an interesting time, right, because I think that a lot of us have noticed that people are, you know, just death in general has become more plentiful. And so it's not just COVID just in general, we're noticing a lot more in depth in our community. And perhaps the loss of Hannah Montana, is

really waking us up out of our slumber and are the more that have that allow, who's a dear friend I've known it for for many, many, many years and hunted ever since I moved to Dallas, in fact, and he's no longer here. But IV, who

lost his mother several years ago, to Lonnie, and then also his, his father, and we'll talk about his story and Shawn Latina, and some of the unique elements of that because I think when we talk about legacy that becomes so important. So I want to begin, I'm actually going to start with SR Najwa, and sha Allah Tada, if, if you can help us in sort of framing the discussion with what the common myths are about grieving and bereavement. And inshallah we'll get to some of the questions that have been submitted to the forum throughout the night. But what are some of the myths that people have about grief, in the wake of losing a loved one?

Semicolon Bismillahirrahmanirrahim, Giacomo, Claire for hosting such an important topic and being able to facilitate and answer people's questions, it really feels like, you know, COVID aside that the past year, so many people have passed away and with that, so many myths come up, right, that are so pervasive in our, in our community. One of the most common myths that that I hear is that, or that people assume is that everyone grieves, the same, that grief looks

the same across the human experience. And subhanAllah, it really doesn't. Grief is not the same from person to person, even sometimes, we might grieve differently, depending on the loss. So you might grieve differently from the loss of your father, versus the grief of the loss of your your friend. And, you know, they've done studies about grief trajectory. And it's very fascinating. The numbers, you know, vary depending on where you look. But they say that about 50% of people have a recovery trajectory, which is more of a stereotypical ways of, of how we look at grieving, that the person is sad, right after it takes them a while to, to adjust, they might have impaired day to day

functioning.

The second category about 40% has a resilience trajectory, meaning that afterwards, they're not as affected as as much they might not have a lot of sadness or, or anxiety or

face a lot of different changes within the weeks and the months that come after. And then you have a small category who really really struggle with grief and bereavement. But why do I bring this up? It's really interesting that we're the first group of people who, who grief changes over time and they experienced grief over weeks months, which is completely normal process. Admit that they have this, why am I why is it taking so long for me to overcome my grief? Why am I sad? Why am I having a hard time getting up in the morning, and they really beat themselves up over this idea that that grief and bereavement is not moving along as fast as they would like. And the second group,

interestingly enough, which is not qualitatively better than the first group, they have, you know, a completely different problem and myths that they that they struggled with, did I not love the person enough? Was I not close to them as I thought I was, and my some kind of monster for not struggling the way other people are struggling. And so this idea of comparing ourselves to other people, when grief completely looks different from person to person, that narrative that we have that beating ourselves up over something that is it's it's human, it's different, and it's not something that needs to be there. So that's a big myth that I see that everyone grieves, the same. Another common

one, that, you know, that that I see often in my private practice and sorrow as well, I'm sure is the idea that, you know, after someone passes away, a loved one passes away that you know, if I truly was okay with a decree of a law, then I wouldn't be sad.

I wouldn't, I wouldn't have this difficulty,

you know, being being separated from from my loved one. And we know there could be nothing further from the truth when the Prophet says someone whose son Ibrahim died.

And I think one of us have had asked him,

you know, you cry, you're crying. And he was asking, you know, isn't this prohibited and the process and said, No. And there's another narration where he practices specifically says, and we are grieved for you. He uses the word, grief. And so there's absolutely nothing wrong with with, with crying, or feeling sad. In fact, you know, when you look at Islam, there, there isn't that many prohibitions in terms of, of grief, there are some but not not as many as it's kind of like as human beings we impose on on ourselves.

And just, you know, the act of crying alone.

Scientist, we don't even know why we cry from from a neurobiology perspective, some people say, No, it's just to lubricate your eyes, nothing else. Some people say it might be a release of hormones.

And some people say, you know, it's a signal to other people that you need help. And so crying it serve whatever you theory prescribe to or you think, is the reason why we cry, there is a purpose for it, and it's very human. And sometimes it can be very cathartic, something that we we need.

And the last method, or assumption that I hear a lot about is that

grief is more of a feeling, where grief is more of a process. You know, if you look at other emotions or feelings, like if you watch a funny video, right, like you, you're at a baseline, you see the funny video and you laugh. And then after the video passes, you might be in a better mood, but you've come back down, right? So it's up down. And grief, there's this idea that, you know, pre pre pre death, I'm here at baseline, and the grief happens, and you know, I feel a certain kind of way, and then I come back down. And that's not how grief works at all. Grief is a process with a lot of different feelings. You know, they're the stages of grief that we're all familiar with, you know,

the denial, the the anger, the bargaining, the depression, and then finally, acceptance. But there isn't really a timetable. Sometimes it takes a few weeks, sometimes it takes a few months, sometimes you might feel you know, really sad for days, and then feel better. And then you know, a time after that you experienced those feelings again, it doesn't mean that you have progressed, it you know, what it means is that this is a process and some days are gonna be better than others. And you know, the healing, when you look at the healing trajectory, it's that the ideas that softens over time, it's not that you ever get over your loved one completely, you find ways to move on, you know,

without them you find ways to carry on their legacy without them. But the idea is not that I need to get over grief, it's just over time in time, Allah will heal me and that pain will soften.

I ask you a question. And I want to sort of pose this to the group.

I know that we've had a few fresh, you know, deaths in the case of actually three of you.

I know Sister Natalie lost your father not too long ago as well. Why Annie? And

I remember and I'm not I'm not playing counselor here at all. But hearing something that did resonate with me because I felt it and I've seen it so many times that sometimes they say the hardest time you know, people will get hit by it like after everyone has sort of resumed back to normalcy and people have forgotten that you haven't lost a loved one. So like a year down the line two years down the line. You're still carrying the pain as if it's yesterday. Everybody else is treating you like you no longer you know because so much has happened in their lives and and what they've seen since then that they're they've gone back to normal. There's no nothing ceremonial

around you that the visitations have kind of stopped people aren't really asked anymore. And you're wondering Is something wrong with me because it's been a year it's been two years and it still hits me as hard as it did the day the day after?

You know, like what what what can you say to that? Because I've heard that many times from people and and frankly experienced that, you know, myself right, so it's sort of like when people stop asking people have kind of moved on but you're not you haven't moved on. And you almost start to think something's wrong with you because you haven't moved on but everyone else seems to assume that you should be completely normal at this point.

Right. And I've seen that and I've experienced it myself. You know, initially everybody you know they tried to visit they try to call a

But soon after, like you said, people, people move on, you know, honestly, I think it's a lot less about us the people that have experienced the loss versus the people around us, I think it's really uncomfortable for for people to come back and be like, how are you doing? Like, you know, people are worried, am I going to remind them of what happened? Am I going to bring up something different have they moved on themselves.

So it's kind of, I'm glad you bring it up. Because within the context of us working on ourselves, I think it's good to put out there too, that, you know, if you have a friend or a family member, check up on them, you know, a month, two months, six months after, they'll probably appreciate it, that discomfort that like shyness, or that anxiety that you might have about asking them, it might actually do a lot of good.

I think one thing just anecdotally that I that I find helpful at anytime, like, I don't care what time of the day it is, or how long after someone like says that I was reminded of something good that your mother did one time or said one time or this quality, or remember this good thing about them. And I was thinking about as opposed to like, like a random, you know, Hey, are you grieving? You know, a post opposed to that, like, I feel like at any time to hear someone bring up a good memory,

you know, is like that never seems an appropriate Subhanallah like it always seems healing, no matter what. And I was looking at the seal of the prophets of Allah, Allah, He was alone. And when the Prophet slice, I'm used to remember those that have passed away. Like he would always remember them and attach something good to them, either mentioning a good a good moment with them, or mentioning a good station that they have, like when he would bring up the names of those that had passed on this have obviously witnessed great loss. So I mean, I'm not sure how you all feel about that, I'd love to just kind of open it up any thoughts on what was shared with with the midst of

grieving, if you will, anecdotally, or what you all have sort of witnessed yourselves.

I think in my experience,

one of the beautiful things about

all this is how

the slate gets wiped clean, and that any negative ideas or thoughts or feelings that you had, or memories even get wiped, and all you can remember about that person is good. And it just reinforces and teaches you how to have a good assumption of people. And hopefully, Inshallah, we imagine that that's a reflection of, you know, how they're how they're viewed, and an afterlife sense, you know, and

it's kind of like a reset button. And then when you're able to, to see your loved ones in that, in that sense, you kind of use that lens to see other people as well. And I think it makes you a more positive person.

I remember like, so

the series that you did was great. Because everybody.

And I think I think the community also needs to understand, like how to help the one who's grieving, like to what to say, in how to grieve what you know, in basically what you just said to the homeless, like, someone just doesn't have to tell you that, oh, you know,

how you grieving for five months later, it's been four months, two days, my brother passed away, and I still visited him is great, but like every other day, and, you know, it's still the same for us. Because we were so close. But, you know, whenever we get a text message from somebody or WhatsApp message saying that I was thinking of your brother because of such and such thing. And, you know, it gives you a lot of comfort. And as I'm thinking about you to see how you guys are doing is holding up.

And so I remember the day he passed away the next three next few days, the weeks that followed you, you start to see that the community

is not very well informed on how to comfort the one who's grieving, you know, what to say what not to say how to greet. And so that's something I would say that cannot be taught from a book. Can I be taught from like workshops, I mean, it could you could possibly, you know, go through it. The Sahaba were fortunate they saw the person doing it himself. So they knew what to do, right. And they carried on his legacy and they knew how to, you know, comfort the ones who believed afterwards, they knew what words to say how to the gestures and all that because it's other person doing it and it passed on from one generation to another generation. So I remember

I right now I was I was I was just looking at all the YouTube comments because I never look at comments but today I was because I know there's a lot of people who've lost loved ones and they're saying their names I'm just trying to you know, copy paste and put them somewhere so we can make the offer them afterwards. Right because it's gonna get I mean, not sure if and go back to it. Some people have so many, you know, such broken hearts and the loss of a loved one. So like me, I know that there's not a particular way you can prepare

But what I started doing this, I really do have mine. Every day I have my, I always need to Oh Allah make my words, a source of comfort and make my presence of source of make my words a source of healing and make my presence a source of conference. You know, I mean, this you can prepare for what words to say. But imagine like the Prophet salaam was such a person, his presence brought so much healing and comfort to people around him. And same thing with the companions and same thing that can follow them. There's a lot of people we can speak to that. So many questions made me cry, like, you can speak to each and every individual, but perhaps, you know, you can make yourself so you know, so

attached to Allah, that your words, just when you speak, I mean, there's nothing on that person who came to the Prophet and his name was Bill hakam. And the person said, he don't name resolvable, how come? Because How come is Allah? The one who judges the one who's, you know, can make the right judgment? So Who named you this? Will? How come? And he says that, oh, you know, my, my, my tribe, they always come to me. And they always make me decide in their affairs. So I always decide for them with justice and fairness to the name You're welcome. And the process of mass and Adeleke, how beautiful is this? How did you know he completely change the dialogue? How beautiful is this, that

you do this right, that you were a means of resolving conflicts, you were a means of bringing people together. And then of course, he turned to be then be Abba, his oldest son right afterwards. But first, he said, Max and Adeleke are beautiful as this. So I urge everybody that, you know, people around us are going through so much that you know, we can prepare for it. But you know what to say, and people leave you after a year or two years. But hopefully your words will continue to be a source of healing, your presence will continue to be a source of comfort. And people remember what you say, people remember it, you know, people, people really cherish it, my mother.

And you know, that when you have that broken heart at that moment, your daughter accepted, will live. When my mother first found out, we walked into the house, she was sitting on the sofa, she had a feeling something happened. She was driving around, because she's the first one to get alerted that my brother had passed away because she was calling him around 1231 o'clock on October 5, and he wasn't picking up the phone. And he never does that all of us don't pick up but he always picks up. So she called me and said, Why isn't he picking up the phone with somebody is fine, you know, he must be teaching or something is you know, don't worry, he's okay. I even just neglected it for a

few minutes. And then she said, No, no, something's good. Please. You know, he she then made my brother go out. And how he found out that he passed away was tragic. And it's on its own, because we went to the accident scene. And we found out he passed away that was so difficult for us. And but in hindsight, it was better that we went to because the police were coming to his house or house. So it'd been worse if they came to her house into tell her that your son has passed away. When we finally came back and told her that No, he's not in the hospital. But they took his body straight from the scene to the medical examiner's place. So there is no like, chance of recovery. So Ray,

when she found out the first thing, she said, Oh Allah, do not let any other mother go through this pain.

First thing, do not let any other mother go through this pain. That's it. And she kept on repeating that over and over again. And I'm looking at her thinking like Halima, you cannot underestimate the heart of a mother, who, who had to bear the pain of pregnancy than the labor pain, and then the pain of kissing her child in a casket. You cannot underestimate the pain in the mother's heart. That's another level. You know, she's a person, like, that's why congenita you know, in sha Allah, so but in that moment, she's like, that's just something you worked on all your life. That's why it happened. Right? So that's why I will say that, you know, we have to figure out a way to continue to

make to offer that and prepare ourselves that we can always be a means of comfort and associate.

Like your your mother. sounds incredible. So how long is past that to protect and preserve her? You know, as as you're talking about all of this, it, it brings to mind the idea that grief is very, very lonely, you know, in the beginning, people surround you, but you're in such a state of shock that at that moment that comfort, you know, doesn't doesn't register right in the same way as it would a year from that day for example, like shakaama was bringing up but then at that point, like you're all saying the people start to live you know, live their own lives and they they forget to reach out and it can feel like such a lonely and isolating experience and that can really just

amplify amplify the grief and the and the in the sadness that you would you would then endure the family and I think that we'll be able to remind you bring up such a, an amazing point about how we were not really taught how to you know how to give how to give condolences. We're not

really taught how to reach out and and talk to people. As soon as somebody is grieving and they begin to cry. The automatic reaction you see in people is they tense up, they stiffen because they have no idea what to do. They have no idea what to say. And so what do you as a grieving person do is okay, you, you try and hold back those tears, try and pull yourself up, and you try to say, okay, you know, it's gonna be okay, you tried to talk yourself out of it because of that person's discomfort. And so I think that overall, one of the one of the issues is that we are just overall uncomfortable with difficult emotions, we're uncomfortable with negative emotions in ourselves. And

we're very uncomfortable when we see somebody that we care about experiencing difficult emotions. And I think that's why we don't really know what to say and what to do in that circumstance. And it's probably also why people don't reach out later because they're afraid to experience that again. So our fear of discomfort really gets in the way of us giving people what they need, and US functioning as a community to give solace to people. Even though you know, what you're all saying is that it's it brings healing, to be able to discuss the good things, to be able to, to say I'm comfortable enough to talk to you about your, you know, your brother's, your brother's memories, I'm

comfortable enough to talk about your father's memories, and like I'm here, and I'm comfortable enough with this situation, to be there and to talk about this. And that can go a very, very long way. But a lot of people struggle with that. Can I ask you a question SR sat on that regard. Um, I've noticed that a lot of times the people that bore it's like counterintuitive, the people that bore that same tragedy are the ones that never talk to each other about it, like the two children of a parent.

They just don't want to talk about it. It's like we, we suffer enough. Let's not bring it up when we're with each other. It's really interesting, but it seems to be that way. What's is that sort of along the same lines of what you're mentioning here, actually, subhanAllah that's what I was actually thinking about that when when this discussion was going on the fact that a lot of times in a home after a loss, it's almost forbidden to mention the person's name, you know, like that, that it's just, it's not okay. And that can be so damaging, because what happens is you suppress all of that grief, and you can't heal it, and then it becomes a trauma, right, it becomes traumatic. And so

but people are in some air in so much pain, that

there's the misconception that the same amount of pain will be there forever, every single day, every minute of the day. And so people are afraid to mention the name in the beginning. And that fear leads them to, to be afraid to ever mention it again, because they've never let anything out. And they're afraid, you know, there's a metaphor for grief that I find very powerful that it's as if you're swimming in an ocean. And there's tidal wave after tidal wave after tidal wave just pulling you under and you just can't catch your breath. And then little by little, right, the the waves start to become less intense, and they become less frequent. And that's how we've worked. It never

never fully goes away. Those waves still come. But there's a fear when the tidal waves are coming and hitting so hard, that I'll never catch my breath. So let me just hold it. Let me just hold my breath and never, you know, never let go. And I think that's why a lot of times in even within the same family, the grief is just never is never processed or talked about or healed.

Sometimes it seems like it's two extremes, though, right? Like some families talk about it all the time. And some families never talk about it. Like I've seen very few people in between very few families in between, in that regard. Like I know, we'd love to have that money on our show love because his family is my family and I and I love those brothers, Mashallah. They're, they're special people. And maybe it's just the nature of the relationship that they all have with each other.

May Allah preserve, preserve you all and have mercy on your brother, maybe it's just the nature of your relationship with each other. But like, you don't talk about these things very openly.

You know, may Allah bless you all. And it seems like there's an opposite, like opposite reaction, like some people's like, never want to talk about it. Some people talk about it a lot. But there's an open flow of communication in that regard.

I mean, the thing is,

I feel like the that that also happens because the way you live your life, right? So if you live your life together, and if you live like when uploading someone's brother passed away, and he was crying. So this person asked him, Why are you crying for and he says, Can I leave in NASA? Or Sahibi might also salam. So he was my brother.

My blood brother but that not only that, but he was also like companion with the prasada like, meaning we were sitting filmer, we were doing the same thing. So a lot of times we live our life so detached, that we also have that regret after he passed away that I think, you know, people know that I wasn't too close, people know that you know, what's going on. So I shouldn't just overstate, you know, these things are sometimes we talk about it too much. So just to show that I was, you know, I was always with him. But he's have a blood muscle. Now, he says, I was crying because he was my, he was my brother. Plus, we did the same thing. So, I mean, there's a lot of families in this

country all over the world that are so special, but,

but we're blessed that our parents, you know, when my brother passed away, like, it's unbelievable when we wouldn't call my father when he first find found out. This is the exact words My brother said to my father on the phone, my other brother, he says, Congratulations, you are the father of machines.

Right? Well, barroco actually, he's our CTO.

Congrats, you're the father machine. And you know, he's took a step back on the phone, he cried, you have to cry. But you know what he said right away. The next call.

He said that ever since he was a baby, when my when my wife my mother was taking, like feeding him. My father used to tell my mother, that when you feed him, make sure that you have intention and you make dua, that every time he gets fed that Allah makes them a half an island and Shaheed

for every, every time he gets fed, make this prayer, make this make this prayer. So when he said that my dad was crying, he said, Listen, your prayers accepted hollows, like, for you, you ask for it. Right? You ask for it. So hard. I mean, it's not that we're unique. Our parents, you know, the mela preserve them, you know, they did it. And now like, the shoes I'm wearing are the same shoes my brother passed away and because the last thing he did for me was pick up my shoes and put it down for me. So every time I go on the path of Allah, anything I do, I always think of him like, oh, you know, this is what he was. He was just a person who served. And, honestly, I don't want to relish on

him too much. But I want to use this pain and grief to help others you know, like it that's what I want to do. It's like, okay, one is you just relish on him. Yeah, of course, I go there. You know, just make two Avi cry. But my brother sister Sana answers networking, you know, talk about this, too. This is an interesting thing about the problem, right? When I was crying for the first month, month and a half, I never left my mom's feet. I sat there slept there, never went home. And everyone gave excuse me, said, Okay, leave him alone. He was very close to his brother. And happen all of a sudden, especially when you live in the same house. When you work in the same place. Everything's

exactly the same. You know, you know, where were you when you first got the message where you weren't all that. So it is every time you see things that reminds you. So I remember that my brother comes up to me one day. And you know, Schumer knows we're jolly people. We will crack jokes and we're always cracks. You know, random jokes with me. I'm not gonna say Schumer thinks he's funny. Sometimes. That's you know. So, in my older brother tells me I'm not funny. So I shouldn't crack jokes. So like, you know, always have a good time. And I'm quiet. Everyone's coming to see me crying all the time. My older brother comes to me, he puts his hand on my shoulder, shut up the lies and

listen. Mostly, you've been too selfish. And I don't like to be called selfish. I said, what he caught my attention. Why is he I'm being selfish, where he said, listen, the prophets Salam went through much more than any of us can imagine. But his quality throughout the day, the emotiva, so he was always Malik Sahaba say, we never looked at him once in our life, that he did not smile at us. So he channeled that pain at night, he cried, and he did all what he had to do. But he never, you know, compromise on making others around him happy taking care of them, even though he was going through pain. So he channeled all that up. And at nighttime, he would cry. It was all something

private between him and Allah. So in the in the moments of grief, I think the most therapeutic thing is to do that, be good with people around you be helpful, but then just use that just in front of Allah and cry. And I find that to be so helpful. That's why we're comfortable talking about my brother, we're comfortable, even though it's really difficult every time we speak about him. You know, I have moments registered and I'm not sure if we're gonna finish his zoom webinar without like this webinar without going through those emotions. But, you know, that's what we do. And no, I'm not sure which one's the right way. But 100 A helps us a lot.

Thank you. mufti, for sharing those thoughts. It's extremely touching. I think it's one of the beautiful things about grief is is how it unlocks empathy that when I hear your stories, I feel something inside because even though like what Nigel has said, everybody experiences grief in different ways. I know you've lost somebody you love and I it makes me feel connected to you and everybody else, you know, on this

handle and everybody else who has recently suffered losses, I wanted to kind of touch on the point that male love, great your brother did for DOS, I mean in sha Allah. But I wanted to speak on kind of a point that Jehovah talked about where some folks kind of repressed their feelings, or some families kind of repressed their feelings and don't bring up the last one's name. And then some other families talk about it a lot and in between, and I think that I am somebody who's kind of experienced both. So if I'm just going to briefly kind of go over my story. So

I grew up with my parents putting up at a very young age and my mother met my stepdad who I basically consider a dad and I've called them basically dead my entire life.

And we spent our whole lives living with them. When I was in fourth grade, my mom got diagnosed with metastatic colon cancer. And her passing was a slow kind of struggle where she would take chemotherapy and go through several surgeries, over six years, and my my dad was the one who supported her financially. And, you know, we didn't know what relationship we would have with my dad, because he was a stepdad. And

you know, we were very young and, but as my mother got more and more sick, and he supported her that that relationship became more and more clear. And subhanAllah just an aside, since we were talking about mothers earlier, about how amazing our mothers are, you know, my mother used to take chemotherapy, and then, you know, within a day or two be driving us to school and would take care of the house and whatnot. And she had immense strength. I remember

last time, hold on, I was making circles for myself, and I was groggy, I'd wipe, you know, rubbing my eyes really tired and whatnot. And I remember that my mother Subhanallah, she would wake up earlier than everybody else in the house, she would make a quota for everybody in the house. And she would deliver this whole to all three of her kids on a tray in their bed. So all we had to do was just sit up to either suffered and then put our tray on the ground next door, but and it just it was one of those moments where it just it revisited me that grief.

So I lost my mother when I was 15 years old.

And obviously, you know, and Mufti knows what this is like February 12 2009. You know the date, you know the time you know exactly what it felt like. And you'll never forget it. But it was so painful being so young, losing my mother, after all of that,

that I think it became one of those suppressed things were talking about Mama was like, it was hard. And if it wasn't in the context of it was more it was always kind of in the context of what would mama want for us? What would mama that want this and it was never in the context of. I remember when mama used to do this. I remember when mama used to do that. Remember when Mama laughed about this or laughed about that it almost became like Mama's death was this. So we have to make it into a learning experience instead of just remembering mama for who she was. And

so, you know, fast forward hamdulillah my dad, he never remarried. He never had any children of his own. He took a sin as his own kids. And he passed away suddenly, last December,

on December 17, and 2020. And you know, being a full grown adult, now, it's been a little bit of a different experience, and SubhanAllah. What really made it a different experience for me was as we were

navigating through all of this stuff, and looking at old cars and whatnot, we decided to go through some, some old VHS tapes of my mother. And I realized it was a long time since I had heard my mother's voice, see my mother's face, especially when she was healthy. And I almost felt ashamed that

I forgot what that was like, because I was kind of suppressing that, from that pain. I was suppressing the memory of my mother. And it reminded me of how my dad would remember my mother.

He essentially dedicated his life to making sure me and my siblings were raised well, because of his love for my mother. He used to pray sitting down just because of his age. And he we ended up moving houses after my mother passed. He took the same mattress that him and my mother used to sleep on and that was the mattress he would sleep on and he would sleep on his side. But he would pray sitting down on on the side that my mother used to sleep on facing the fibula with her most half on

opened up And subhanAllah we have good reason to believe that he was he passed away praying because that's where we found him in that same position facing that look on my mother's side of the mattress.

And

so that that's when it kind of

It hit me that I wanted to not just remember my dad for the lessons he taught us and he was he he was an amazing man and mentor when it comes in when it comes to teaching.

But also just remembering his laugh, remembering his smile, remembering our trips together, remembering our experiences together, and I want to remember those things because I feel like that's my gateway to,

to doing sadaqa jariya for him, and for my mother, or making dua for him, and my mother for remembering the knowledge that he taught us. Like the key to all of those things that benefit people in the afterlife involve you remembering them,

and everybody remembers in their own way. But sometimes it's not just remembering what they taught you in the letter and trying to make them proud it's sometimes it's just remembering their spirit and their essence and that gives you a key to continuing inshallah to do good for them.

So thank you, Mufti, thank you, European Institute for give me an opportunity to share that story. But I think that was just my experience from experiencing death at a young age and experiencing death in an older age, and how important it is to to remember, not just what they taught you, but who, who they were so that you can continue to make dua and continue to continue to give in their name so that they can still benefit from you.

And you know, subhanAllah one of the things that you always look for in the wake of the death of a person and some Shahadat a life in order to or the witnesses of Allah on this earth, when the character testimonials all line up, and everyone's saying the very specific quality that they remember about a person, it's just so beautiful. And, you know, generally speaking, when someone passes away, people say good things about them. But when all of the shahada all of the testimony is so remarkably consistent, and the stories all line up, and there are these qualities that stand out, it's just it's really beautiful. And that was definitely the case with your stepdad Rahim Allah,

Allah to Allah and I remember

you know, and I hadn't known that your mother was very, so close, so close, so close by Subhanallah that we buried him. And

everyone said, what they said about who he was, and then you just walk over to visit your mom's grave as well. And you know, I know that that was a difficult moment for you and your siblings, may Allah make it easy for you all. But you know, I pray that Allah subhanaw taala

joined them together that your mom was waiting to receive him in the realm of believing and righteous souls into and he could tell her I did what you know what I promised and that was something that was very beautiful and just in the whole testimony So may Allah have mercy on him and comfort you and your siblings inshallah Tada through it all. Continue to bless you with that perspective and Zach Lowe for being vulnerable and sharing that perspective with us.

Abdullah Abdullah has been 4045 minutes man we haven't heard your beautiful voice or seen you or heard from you and

to bring you enter this conversation I need to bring you in though it's something very specific that everyone everyone somehow it seems like everyone sort of resorts to their natural like persona when something happens. So you know, Mufti, Mom was saying his his mom immediately went to like the caretaker and you just see that right? Someone that's a community servant is still trying to be a community servant, even in the most difficult moments of grief.

Safe Abdullah, you're a teacher, man. And I noticed that Masha Allah that you teach, you really do teach you taught when your dad died, you taught when your sister died, and you made it a point to teach, not just people about how to grieve, but teach a community as to how to how to be around those that are that are grieving. So I wanted to open it up to you and show what's on it just to bring you in, you know, for this conversation. Now, so let us do that while Ali was talking about, I mean, this is a show I love very, very heartwarming and it's a very good reminder for myself from hearing from different experiences and perspectives and different behaviors of ourselves and of our

loved ones and seeing how they reacted to things and you know, particularly from hearing how do as you know, inshallah were accepted, and how, you know, Allah subhanho wa Taala just gives the intuition to certain people, especially our mothers, you know,

and the loving relationship that is there, you know, when when hearing you with early with your mother and your father, you know, and how that you know, how Allah subhanaw taala chose for it to conclude

you know, subhanAllah it's it's very heartwarming and you see that Allah subhanaw taala within the street

destination, no one wants to just sit and ask what was the lesson in that? What? What, what? Sometimes you even asked God, what are you trying to tell me? What are you trying to tell me? I promise you, I will do whatever it takes. And, you know, that's what I, you know, my mother called me. And, you know, it's interesting, because a couple of hours ago, I think I did a sample, I think it was a trailer for this for this webinar. Somebody I don't, I don't know, the brother, Mashallah. He sent a message and he said, Thank you for the small the small message my mother died today.

And, you know, I mean, may Allah with Allah bless everyone that is, you know, put that forth and Yaqeen Institute, you know, for bringing that out. And the fact that he just texted me to tell me that the thing I'm thinking is, you know, what influence you had, you have the time to text me and mentioned that, and that's a form of, you know, maybe a form of the process of grief, when telling someone that, you know, that may affected you or someone that you may not know, that's distance, but just seeing how people react is very, very, very interesting. And how a law creates us in different ways, and the ways that we react in different ways. You know, when my sister passed away,

you know, I mean, throughout my life, and my Muslim life, you know, I converted to Islam, trying to call my mother and my sister and my father to Islam, and, you know, just just seeing

the message of one brother, you know, he just called me and he says, so I'm like, I'm like, like, he's like, Look, man, I'm not good at this,

you know, is what he said, and, you know, and I respected that, you know, he said, I'm not good at this man. But you, me, just let me just, he just went, he just went. And that's what you were saying, you know, with the, with your hate is that,

you know, there may not it's something much deeper than that. It's something that is just felt. You feel it from the other person, when they speak to you, you feel the emotion. You know, when it was my suit, my father's funeral, my sister's funeral, my my mother told me that my father passed away, he was in Ghana. And, you know, I remember I was saying to myself, Okay, you know, what's going to happen? Okay, there's gonna be a lot of tribal things, there's going to be, you know, I'm a Muslim and this, I say, you know, what, Stop, just stop. Okay, you're the oldest, you bet. There's not a question of should you go or not, you better go and make your mother happy and represent your

father.

And when I went there, I said, I'm going to put my head down and do what my mother wants me to do and be hidden in that by the permission of Allah. And then seeing my my extended family, roughly around 140 members on my mother's side, and a little less than that, on my father's side, never getting to see them, but when you when I was younger, but when seeing them Subhanallah, you see how there was one particular one on my dad's oldest sister, she couldn't look at me. Like when I when she was, you know, they passed by and they shake your hands. As soon as I smelled she, like literally fell on the ground.

She couldn't look at me. And I was trying to understand because I couldn't understand the language. And they said, You smile, just like your father, you smile, just like your father. And she couldn't, she couldn't bear to deal with it. And what's so profound about that, is

my daughter is a spitting image of my sister.

So when you're talking about

the good characteristics and qualities that you see in a person, well, Allah He the manifestation of Allah subhanaw taala is risk and his blessings. And as Rama is unsurmountable, we cannot domesticate it with our own thinking. I literally see my sister in my daughter.

So it's, it's like, in other words, there's another opportunity to live through, you know, what I wanted to always tell my sister in indirect ways to help my daughter in that I know some of the things that my sister wanted to do. Some of the endeavors she had Subhanallah some of those things that I learned about her from her friends, during the funeral,

the good qualities they had, that she had the secrets that she, you know, the secret efforts she was trying to do, and, you know, for certain people, and they would come and tell me in private, you know, those core principles and characteristics, you know, I see that in, in my daughter.

And it's in it's an amazing thing, because you sit back and you say, Allahu Akbar Subhan Allah, you know, when you see a relative, you feeling a relative pass away, you see some of the certain characteristics and other family members. And that's something that, you know, when looking at that, and understanding that and cherishing that and trying to say, You know what, I see her, what would I tell

On my sister, you know, I want to try to tell my daughter that and tell it to my daughter, sometimes, you know, you know, your auntie was just like that my daughter had the opportunity to get my daughter is 11 She had the opportunity to meet her, you know, my sister, her aunt,

and seeing the vulnerability. I mean, till this day, you know, there are certain children that emotional intelligence, you know, they don't speak about what they feel, but it will come out in spurts. You know, now my mother lives with us. And

I remember when we went to the, you know, the funeral, and you know, they have the wig, and we went to go see my sister. And it was an opportunity for me, because I'm the eldest brother, so I, her name is Sakina. So I mentioned the word Sakina. To the to the congregation, and what that means, tranquility and calmness, and peace and, and how that's a life that we should try to live, even in this time of hardship, and going through this grief that we've seen. Oh, what's so interesting is I learned about my children as well, you know, one child, you know,

I asked him, you know, they walked up, I called them in, I said, there's your auntie, if you want to go see her, and he just walked up, and he went, and he stood there and he looked, the other one I was pushing, he wouldn't, he wouldn't budge. He wouldn't, but he wouldn't move.

And then all of a sudden, he just broke down. He just, I've never seen him break down like that. This is my oldest. And when he broke down, I broke down. I don't know why I still can't explain it till this day.

I can't explain it. So just recalling those feelings and just thinking about them. It's SubhanAllah. It's uncontrollable. And you know, when you when you lose a family member like that, you look in their face, and

you think about what they've done.

I always try to remind myself and my mother, because you know, she has spirits as well. You know, when my sister passed away, that she just kept repeating my best friend, my best friend, you and my best friend, you are my best friend, you are my best you just kept because she took care of her. During her cancer, she had metastatic colon cancer as well, stage four. And just seeing the slow process

was something that was you can't forget that, you know, and just certain things that she would say. And I mentioned this last point.

You know what she had it, she was in a hospital. And this is during COVID. So we were not allowed to go and see her. She would be at home. And then she relapse and go back to the hospital.

And, you know, she asked me to pray for her. She asked the kids to pray for her. She never, you know, did that before. But you saw the vulnerability she call and asked me stuff about, you know, eating and things of that nature.

And, you know, when she finally went to the emergency room, one of the occasions, you know, the doctor basically was telling us look, this is this is it.

As soon as we take off the blood pressure medication, we're literally just waiting for you to wear when we take off this medication, then it'll just be gradual. So that was the only time we were allowed to go into hospitals here, when they knew that it was apparently a last one godless time for her. So when we sat there, you know, she, she looked at me and then she was like, you know, and then she turned to me, she grabbed my hand and she came to me. And

she said, Pray for me.

And then she also said don't let them do this to me, like the nurses and you know, it was it was it was hard. You know, it was very, very difficult. My mother sitting there, my brother was on his way there.

And, you know, I went to Sedona

as she was as she was talking, she was losing her breath. And you could hear a gasp

and I just said, you know, say a shadow.

Please, please say that you haven't please

You know what just

just say those words, you know

know, so

So, that's that's the most important thing that I you know, I tell my mother, I tell my kids

do not you know, she wasn't you know what she wanted to do in life.

Just try to live her legacy.

The things that you know, that

that she loved and she wants to do.

Just try to live live the legacy. You know, I mean, the son of the Prophet sallallahu wasallam. It's his it's his legacy that we want to live

We should live.

So do your best to live their legacy in everything that you do. And just remembering what they loved about you what they loved about other people, and send their regards to those friends and family that they love. And do what you can to fulfill that legacy and live on what they want it to. To do, that's, that's the biggest message I get to myself, I get to my mother, I get to my children.

And that's the message that I want to give to the world.

Just like laughing and for sharing that she helped Allah. You know, I think that, um,

I don't know how you all talk with the emotion, it's, it's such a, it's always such a struggle, but

hearing your story reminds us so my mother is a convert as well. And she lost her mother. Recently. You know, I think one of the hardest things for people, you know, we've been talking a lot about the positive memories about the legacy about going from person to person and hearing people sharing the same wonderful things. But I think it's really difficult for people who don't have that experience, you know, and then also, people who like to have download sharing, like, my, my mom is sharing, even though there are such positive and beautiful experiences in this life, with their loved ones, to be to struggle with the fact that they're gone, and not knowing, you know, not knowing and,

but that's incredibly difficult. And I think that it's something that

deserves a lot of empathy. You know, in Chicago, I remember, after your sister passed away, you shared a video about, you know, people asking, was your sister Muslim, because I want to make dot for her. And again, it shows

sometimes people don't know what to say at that time.

And how painful it can be in that moment.

A lot of times people reach out to community members who, you know, they know that their, their loved one passed away Muslim, and they don't know what to say, in other situations, and so they avoid it, but, but those are the people who in a lot of ways needed the most, you know, when when there's an uncertainty about being reunited when those areas and those Hadith don't resonate with that person, there's such tremendous, there's a double grief, there's the grief, grief of loss of that person in this life. And there's the grief of loss of them in the hereafter. It's, it's a tremendously difficult thing to deal with. And I think that, you know, the empathy is really, really

needed. And the condolences on that and the the healing types of conversations are really needed in those circumstances, I don't think that can be underestimated. So just like a mafia for sharing your story.

When,

when I was starting the series, you might recall, we had a conversation about this, right?

And a lot of questions came in about this, and moving beyond sort of the technical, right? And,

okay, we don't have the ability to make us that far. We don't have the ability to to tell a helmet to Sarah Hunter, Lonnie and Allahumma PhilaU and then like, does that mean and then your mind goes to all those possibilities very, and does that mean I'm not going to be with them and sort of the the feeling of exclusion and I do appreciate what you shared And subhanAllah I think that it's important for us to know that we we as human beings, we limit ourselves to what we have been limited which is we we accept the dimensions that Allah has given us and that we cannot penetrate past right like the the what ifs and the you know, we deal with a lot of things we deal with the apparent of

things and ultimately, you know, the the idea of a bad on behalf of someone and good deeds on behalf of someone these types of things, ultimately, just like what's the law, I mean, one scholar when one of my teachers actually explained this to me, a hikma of this in a way that was very,

that really resonated. And again, it's a hikma. We accept things from around the Sun and the soft sauce on them as they are and we don't go past what Allah and the messenger slice them tell us and at the same time, Allah knows our hearts, Allah knows that

Pain, Allah subhanaw taala rewards that pain.

And he said, you know, the idea the hikma is that you don't you can't do on behalf of someone in a bad sense what they did not used to do and everybody is on so even tatical salah, like someone who didn't used to pray, you can't pray on their behalf the way that they did not use to pray themselves.

And there is a standard that set but at the same time taking sort of comfort in the names and attributes of Allah subhanaw taala Allah Allah Allah, Allah azza wa jal does not wrong anyone. So though there are people that have been cut off in a sense that Allah does not wrong, anyone in putting your faith in those attributes of a loss of how to tie those names and attributes of Allah to where you're not making declarations about a person's ultimate fate, you at the same time can't help but feel the pain. I mean, everyone feels the pain you bury the most.

I mean, with the other man's family, you know, their their brothers a half of Shaheed Adam, this, you know, we still cry and feel pain, right? So you're gonna feel the pain and the uncertainty and the wondering, and am I the uncertainty about the person, but I think what you just said sister saw the double grief? And I'm sure most people would have never known that about your mother, you know, they would have they wouldn't have assumed that right.

Sheikh Abdullah, and only if you can tell me if you want to?

Can you reiterate to the community and to the individual how to deal with the situation? You know, like in general, like what do we

how do we how do we carry the prophetic respect, obviously, the prophets, I'm standing for the janazah, the funeral of a Jewish man passing by, we have narrations of Sahaba. Walking in the dinar as of their non Muslim spouses and things of that sort the funerals of their normal spouses. So we're there are certain things that we can't do and certain things that we can do. Can you just share from your perspective, you're, you're, you're a scholar, you're a graduate Shediac from Medina, you're, and you've buried your father, you buried your sister, you've been through a lot of pain here. And you've and you've tried to educate the community? Is there anything else you can

share?

To the individuals themselves or to the community when it comes to your heart and mind in that regard?

I mean, you know, in these regards, like, you know, when you're when you're afraid of okay, am I doing is this shoulder ache or not? I know one thing that is, for instance, with my father,

what was the first thing I said to myself? Well, the first single, I was asking these questions. And then I said, I know what it's for the Iein upon me, I know it is a blip. What is obligatory upon every single human being is better quality.

And that better validation, in this particular instance, was it something that was totally going against, you know, the story, for me to

be good to my mother, you know, my father's best friend, my father's, my father's wife, my mother,

I knew for a fact if I didn't go, that it would cause more grief for because in understanding what would happen socially, socially, with his family, her family, I'm the oldest son, you know, there was a lot at stake, quote, unquote, for me to do that. So there's gonna be times in your life you as a person that is, you know, converted to Islam or someone that is, you know, someone born Muslim. And you struggle with one or the other and your goal and your intention is to please Allah subhana wa, tada.

Be mindful of Allah as much as you can, for Takala Mr. Dieter, do the best that you can. That's all you can do. And that's all you can do. You know, and, and Hamdulillah. And we were for my particular situation, you know, I didn't even realize it after I came back. Because, you know, my sister passed away was with me and my father's funeral, you know, looking and it said, 67 years old. I'm like, man, so, um, that's, that's about 25 years for me left, you know, just thinking about life. And then speaking to the relatives, and taking the opportunity to speak, especially if they knew that, you know, I was the only Muslim. And my great my aunt, my mother's uncle was a Muslim as well, you know,

meeting my grandparents and, you know, and trying to be good to them in ways, you know, that they probably never saw, and the first time seeing me and seeing how I wanted to try to be remembered just as a good son.

That's what was on my mind the whole time doing whatever my mother said. And that was what was on my mind, just reminded me of something we just Subhanallah yesterday, looked at some of the photos. And my mother told me when we go up to the coffin, I was holding my sister. And she said, do the Arabic thing that you do.

And it was cold, but it had, you know, so I did hope that hija and my mother said,

everyone's jaw dropped. They were just amazed.

It, you know, Cicero, my dad's son speaks and this and that. And, you know, I just did that because my mother wanted me to do it, and it made her happy.

And that's what I really, really advise. I mean, even with my, my sister's death, I did it again, I explained the meaning of the words to Kena. And I, you know, told all of our friends, if there's anything you need, you've known, I've known you, since you were little, you know, just really showing the human side that we all share. People really, really need to see that in these occasions, especially if the family member is not Muslim, and all of their friends may not know Islam, you know, and they may not have any idea. You know, my grandmother that I met for really the first time, you know, my sister told me, when we came back from God from my father, you know, she said, while

she was totally amazed, she had some other expectations of what she's faced for Muslims in Ghana, but she was so surprised to see, you know, the way that you carried yourself and things of that nature. So, I really say in these occasions, be mindful of Allah as much as you can, when dealing with these family members, or non Muslim family members with things that you may be afraid of whether this is right or wrong, be mindful of allow as much as you can, and be on the side of those that were closest to the deceased, as much as you can and show the human side, that's very, very important. And people will remember that.

If I can say that, I think there are a lot of assumptions as well, prohibition. So for example, a lot of things that might not come to our minds like

it could lead or us having the it the needs reading good the relatives and the friends of the deceased that's Muslim or non Muslim, the mentioning of the good qualities of a person after they've passed away that can be Muslim or non Muslim, right? That's so the prohibitions are getting our tab booty and you know, in the in the worship sense to do worship, and to or to, to extend these that of acts of worship that they themselves

would not have done, but at the same time, you know, I think you've done a beautiful job, honestly, like you've done a beautiful, I don't think I've ever seen anyone do it more beautiful, man.

I mean, I don't think I've ever seen anyone do it more beautiful.

of walking that and really teaching by example. So does aka low height on for that.

We're doing that. And, you know, I'm at a loss of words already, I feel we're already over an hour into the into the webinar, we haven't even got to the question. So I hope you all are okay to stay for a little bit longer in Charlottetown. But just like my love, hate on for that.

I just want to say one, one thing, before I just to conclude, she had a minute, we're still not going anywhere.

Just to speak about, you know, the, when I spoke about when my sister passed away, and people asking me if they were Muslim or not. If she was Muslim, and I, you know, my main intention, you know, was to educate it was to educate the community, because, you know, I'm aware of we as human beings, you know, we, we were complacent, and we want to be comfortable. And we see this in different at different events, and, you know, that take place in the Muslim spaces.

You know, so that experience, you know, and some people, you know, they asked that question, and I know, it wasn't from malice, or it wasn't from, you know, a dry approach. It was something that, you know, because they cared for me, they cared for my sister who they didn't know.

And that was the most important thing that they care about, was Islam, and, you know, someone dies, how did they die. But when I did that, it was more of just educating. I really did not want to make it seem like a rant. But it was more of just educating, you know, the Muslim community of the reality of the situation. And that's why I gave the example of, you know, if there was someone that was the leader of your Jamar, or the grandfather, and he passed away, and I came in, asked, you know, was he someone that prayed? Was he someone that, you know, there would be some kind of sentiment that is there. So it's just educating and in there even say cultural sensitivity, you

know, of educating, and I think it's just a manifestation of the you know, the universe. Well, John, welcome Sherman Makabe today to our imaginations and then tries for you to get to know one another. So, it's very important that we educate each other about each other, to know how to,

in this case, show condolences in a way that is comforting. Insha Allah, Allah knows best

luck luck. I mean, honestly.

I don't know. I have no words for you. Because something that you just mentioned, like, the next week after my brother passed away. We went to Highland Park and there's a lot of Converse there. And, you know, one of them saw museums brother Muhammad, Khalid the great guy, he saw me crying and he came up to me he's an old man, but 70s came up to me, hug me is a you are a prince man. You know, you can't be doing that. I said

Whatever, you know, I'm sorry, I just I can't do anything.

And then

And then, you know, like he said, when my mother passed away, I buried her. I sat next to her grave, I used to go there every single day, I used to drive around town without a destination in mind.

You know?

And, you know, I'm sure I know how it feels for you as well. But let me tell you something.

You know, when I brought my mother, she didn't actually the Shahada.

And Alicia brother was, you know,

Shahid, believer. And he said, Why don't you use this pain to make sure there's not many there's not other Bahama clouds in the world crank.

Make an effort and others

so that other people don't have to go through the same uncertainty. And he said, I'm not a scholar, but I can assure you that this is the pain the Sahaba had, they went through it themselves with their family loved ones, the Prophet Solomon through it. So he just they just channeled their pain to make sure there's no more shame. There's no more Muhammad Collins out there, there's no one no one has to go through this pain and uncertainty, you know, and honestly, when he said that, to me, it just woke me up, right? And I said, that's my purpose of my life. Now, that's it, you know, this is what I have to do in my life. It's not for anything else. I mean, really, this world is not to

fulfill our ambitions and desires because this is this world will not be able to do it for us. But you know how you my mother used to say like the struggle is not to get agenda the struggle is how many people can you take with your agenda?

Right How many people so that's that's one thing on that one side but the flip side of that just because interest interesting what you're seeing that tears in your eyes

My father says on the flip side to that, you know, so you like that answer sister Sandra said about the uncertainty of meeting again. But even a believer can feel that because a believer is not at peace or at ease that they may die there for certain going to die with the Kalima right, call at the home and the law, yada, yada usually follow the whole night out a lot in my data element. I'm looking for a support person. You know, Allah refers to these these verses, he says these things because he says, Do you have a certificate from Allah that just because you're born with the claim, I'm going to die with it? So my father, the one thing that we always say to a person who passed away

to their loved ones who say, You know what, you're going to see him again. So my father calls, he cries, I said, Would you stay strong? Surely going to see him again. One day he questioned me said, he said, Son, is there any guarantee?

Is there any guarantee

that we're gonna see him again? Right. And really, the answer to that is no, there is no guarantee unless you make an effort unless you struggle, and you continue Soufiane Tony Rahmatullah Ollie. On his deathbed

he's crying so much, and someone said to valley Urraca back and Nicola Kip tell Kabyle Why do I see that you're crying so much as if you have committed so many major sins? Well, Lila the newbie our family had a turn up. So Shantanu picked up dirt and said, you know, my my sins are so insignificant to me because he was a saint. That's more insignificant than these this dirt that was found out from his hands but he said

well, I can keep a half it I used to believe man a couple of multi coupler you know, tabula hayati of problem ote said that I'm afraid that maybe Allah will snatch my Kalama the Eman from me before I die. So this idea of you know of living like that, you know, the idea of, of living, that maybe I will not see my loved one so struggling. You know, the two things that I come that come from Quran hadith is if you keep on if you continue to struggle to make Allah happy and work hard, and you continue to repent, so we're looking at Yahoo Finance, and as the one thing when we continue to struggle, Allah guarantees, the one that struggles will die with it. And Allah guarantees we ideally

mean you need, Allah guarantees, the one who continues to go back to him and you know, repent to Him, Allah will guide him and keep him on guidance. So the opposite authorization of Allah, my father was saying, you know, what guarantee is, and that keeps us going, that keeps us moving, right? That I want to be there. My brother, we were sitting on his bike we were sitting on my brother's next to my brother's grave and one youngster came who was his friend, and he said, he said these words and it just from that day onwards is in my mind, and he said, Janna just got personal.

Jana just got personal, because you know, when you have someone so if I'm from Michigan and I want to come to Dallas, I really do want to come to his house to see if those books are truly behind them as a green screen. Right? I do want to, I do want to come see, you know, a shift to the man's room that he's been sitting in for. I know he's there, inshallah. He'll be waiting for me. And so you feel more comfortable going to cities and areas where you know

people that will host you that you, especially when you have kids, you feel more comfortable sending them to cities and colleges where you have friends and family Sahaba felt that about the Prophet Salam Jana was so personal to them, because they knew that the only place to visit him and meet him and eat with him again, isn't agenda. So I better make an effort to get there. Right. So here we are, you know, we have if we lost loved ones, gender should be personal to us now. Insha Allah, that only way, the only way to be with them again, is that we gotta be there with them. So I just you know, that the opposite, you know, spectrum of what you were saying. I just thought I should just

feel that.

Sorry.

I was just gonna say and somehow I think that's why it's so important that, you know, you're talking about where are they? What happened to them, Allah is gonna take care of everyone. Allah has a customized, you know, there's reward and punishment, there is ultimately everyone else's fate. But that idea of like, okay, well, how do I get to the place that I need to get? How do I work with what I know I can work with and then a loss of Hannah what to add, it will take care of the rest and focusing as much as you can on that. And there were actually a few questions that came up. In that regard, by the way, they're very interesting. You know, I mentioned, you know, some of the

narrations

you know, about about when the news of the people of this world reaches the news of the people of the hereafter and they see that you're not doing well and they say, you know, Allahu Allah to Mattoon had to attack the home candidate and Okemah con,

you know, and of course, the narration is very interesting narration because, you know, some of its disputable amongst the people of Hadith and things that sort of, it's almost like oh, so that means they're still making draft for us. It's like, No, first of all, there's absolutely no, there is no Well, I don't want to be I don't want to shut it like that. But to say that there is no no implication of an effect except the sentiment being conveyed. You're the one that does their book of ama their book of deeds has closed you're the one responsible for them and now for our not for actions and deeds right there's it's not that oh, maybe a drought that came from someone that no

it's it's no you make your you need to do your work, you need to act you need to you need to move forward and ultimately,

you know, move on something that's really important is no one's going to be sad and Jana, no one's going to be sad in Jamaica, it's interesting when we get into the the details and the specifics and you know,

you know, the just to lighten up the mood here the sister who wants that

you know, if my husband is going to be if I gotta be married to him and John, I don't know if I want to be there you know, that sister

said Do you know tequila?

That's not what you want to be saying. You know, it's

I mean, that's that's a deep that's deep that's that's a harsh thing to say. But you know, like you people sit there and start to think about the details like a lot is preparing the accommodation for you.

In accordance with the best of what he knows that will please you. Just do what you need to do to get there. You're not going to feel emotionally unfulfilled. When you pass away. If you die upon that which is pleasing to Allah, you're not going to feel mentally you're nothing's gonna be missing from Jenna.

As far as you're concerned, just get there. Allah knows his hand Allah knows his servant Allah knows what pleases you Allah knows what brings satisfaction and comfort to your heart and I think that a lot of these these these details often that caused us like a lot of concern and I don't want to be dismissive and sister sodden sister nodule. You both have full permission to be like that was pretty dismissive and you should probably stop talking now you have permission to say that she'll please tell me that I don't want to be dismissive because I know that you know, people will say well what about

you know, what about my pet? Like Like even there are people that develop deep connections to their pets right and we got some of the questions that what about my pet

you know, and then you read the tafsir of zanla and certain number and Cornwall to Robert with a reduced to dust that means they don't have souls. They don't have a wife. I'm not gonna see my pet again.

Please Allah subhanho wa Taala live a life of being the best out to him. So that he can be you know, he can show you the axon that he has promised you as your love the excellence that he's promised you as your love but all the Allahu Anhu a lot although

you will be pleased and pleasing do the best you can to die as that out that that that proper, you know slave of Allah subhanho wa Taala I did everything yet Allah you're my master. You're my Sustainer you're my Lord. I put it all out on the table. Now that undead Imam was study him almost at 100 Min. The prophets like some said either that person is relieved or relieved from like, like

Like like die as a person who exhausted themselves trying to please Allah subhanaw taala then let Allah subhanaw taala please you with, with what is not going to be deficient, no one is going to feel like something's missing here. Now I don't know what those specifics look like because I don't know what this next realm is like, you know when my mom died a little hum hum, I read keytab a row. And by the way, a lot of this series actually came from Kitamura from even playing with Josie Hakimullah in a funny way.

Like, after I read keto, I don't know you know, maybe maybe some of you can relate to this but you know when an author really connects with you, like I felt like if no clay and Rahim Allah was a scholar that lived in my time and then he passed away and like he tabula rasa, like I developed a friendship of sorts with no claim and Josie of him Allah in my in my heart Honestly, after reading Kitab wrote the book of the soul because I was like, Man, this is so profound it's he's bringing it all together in such a beautiful way. He's stringing it together in a way that makes sense everything he's saying resonates it's giving me that perspective. It's giving me that full that full

understanding of the soul and the journey of the soul and I was like desert Hello height on like, I want to thank even though I am Rahim, Allah one day, I want to, you know, see him and be like, you know, that book really helped me get through some very difficult moments in my life of trying to understand the soul and what's going to happen. And even even, like, have these thoughts. I'm like, you know, I pray that Allah gives me the opportunity to be sitting within Okay, and Rahim, Allah and Adam in Ottawa in the realm of the soulsby, like, yeah, I read about this from your book.

And of course, no one is like the Prophet slice, and then we put the Prophet slice on them. Above all, that everything we learned, is through the Quran was revealed through him and his actions. It is lots of fun, but you know what, after all of that, after all that reading, you just have to take a step back, and you have to be like, you know, I have no idea what the future looks like. I, you know, and even the prophets, I seldom said, even I don't know what will become of me, he wasn't talking about reward or punishment. Like, it's like talking to a baby in the womb and trying to explain to them what this world is going to look like, I have no idea how that experience is

actually going to feel how like, how do people look? And bizarre?

I mean, how do they look? How did they? Okay, my grave, you know, the lucky title will be expanded and garden agenda. I don't know agenda looks like because it has what No, I have seen what no ear has heard. And it's never even crossed the minds of a person now Hottel on Academy Bucha. Like, I can't, I can't even perceive or comprehend them. And so when I read that hadith at your grave, if you if you die righteous is a garden of Jana, and may Allah make all of our graves gardens of gentlemen, Allahu Amin, and it's expanded this way. Well, I don't know what gender looks like. So why is the law telling me about it? Allah tells me about it, through the Quran, the prophets, like

some tells me about it too long, too long. So after all, that we hear about an agenda. By the way,

it's like you've heard nothing, because what's in it, you've never heard in the sense that you've heard what you need to hear to long for it and to strive for it. But what is actually going to feel like and the perception, just trust Allah, trust Allah, to make you happy to please you, if you try to please Him, and nothing is going to feel deficient. And that's where sort of dawns upon you, you know what, like, I don't want to be left out of conversation of the realm of the rights of sanity of attachment.

And, you know, subhanAllah, just as there are going to be some people that are going to surprise you. There are going to be people in Jannah. And, you know, you'd be like, wait, you, you made it. You know why you had no idea what that secret the person secret was with ALLAH SubhanA, Allah to Allah, and maybe what the person's last moments were right, and you have no idea that person might have lived a wicked life. And then the last moments of their lives, they really sincerely turned back and something happened. And like, Whoa, you're here. Right? And there are some people whether Yaga, Willa,

that are dragging their intestines

that were scholars and teachers of the religion.

May Allah protect us from being amongst them along I mean, that no one would imagine, right? Like you were the one that used to tell us about this stuff.

When I saw a lot of Afia, may Allah protect us, and that make us amongst those people. And so the idea of focus on intense focus on self to where I'm going to let a lot take care of what Allah takes care of, but I'm going to do the best that I can. It's just so important in that regard. I just talked a whole lot. So what you said like, we don't know how it looks, what it feels like, but definitely, if we put the verses and a hadith in in context, it really helps the grieving heart as well. Amma and the life of love

About what Allah has in store for a righteous person is much better if you could not have offered in the world, like if you really loved your loved one what Allah has asked for that person is much better. I have this you know, my phone, I have a to do list app. And I had on my to do list app I had, you know, a plan for my brother when he comes back, that when he comes back, you know, we have a small business together, this is what he's going to do. I said get up there have him on board with the schedule for work that he needs to do. Calling customers and getting reviews, following up on the forms sending out attachments for warranty documents, is that better what Allah has is better?

That's what he would have been doing if he was here. So I keep that on my screen all the time just to say

a dream in a better place man. Like you would have been doing this sending out people warranty documents for parts seriously. Well not in the local law what Allah has in store for the righteous is much better. I can go one session without seeing a cabal porn right? It doesn't work out if Allama Iqbal said something interesting. This mode couple Sheeta Tada happy I'm not smoke a pandemic grifter the he may, he says if the

if when you pull the veil of moat like If on the other side of death

is

the Prophet saw him standing there and the Sahaba standing there to let the world know that I'm not afraid to die. Because I would love to get there.

Because if on the other side of this realm is that I'll be in the Yama and see Allah and see the Prophet and see Sahaba will smoke a pandemic Good afternoon. I'm not shackled by this life anymore. I'm free. I can go anytime just call me because that's what I want to get to. So that idea of like ma'am in beaten height, Missouri, Oklahoma, ma'am in between the height or little movement even larger than that external huffy he wanted to dunya. But I mean, I'm gonna add Abdullah, there is not a better bed or resting place for a believer within the lat the grave site of his in that he is freed from the grief. So this dunya and he's saved from that from the adaptive Allah subhanaw taala.

I mean, keep that. Isilon says Motul Fauja, at the raw hatherly movement, a sudden death is actually a comfort for a believer because the Prophet is a midwife, which I didn't know how to legally measure. He, Allah make death a means of comfort for me, this is, you know, when someone came to McCrone, and his name Allah and His death in his death that he passed away, and I'll conclude by saying this, so somebody was made to offer him and said, I said, Allah Who asked you to get out of Allah? May Allah give you a cure about Allah. What he said just blows me away. He says, in hock, be my huge I flew, how you don't mean at the back of my Mala Machado, who

he says me

being united with the one that I have hoped for. And his forgiveness is better for me than staying with those who I don't know, if they might cause me even more harm. I can only like, I'm not even sure I'll be saved from their harm. I rather be with the one who I know for sure will forgive. So basically, mobile labs also said that identity, the greatest source of comfort is the fact that you need the most popular. So I think what you're saying is we don't know what it's like, but we do know for sure what Allah has in store is better than this. And it's going to be a means of comfort for the one who works for it. So that's, you know, that really helped me as far as like, thinking about

my brothers, I had all these plans for him and we sat down the night before he passed away, we're going to do this and we're going to do this and all that. Allah has plans are better and Allah has always, you know, blessing somebody.

I Subhanallah we're at the one and a half hour mark, I don't want to end it just yet. So let's let's just say inshAllah 15 more minutes insha Allah Tala, I wanted to address some of the major themes, I could go on all night, and just I can locate and I think this has been very therapeutic for a lot of people.

And at the same time, I apologize to everyone who, you know, again, we had hundreds of questions, and we can't answer all the questions. A lot of them surrounded,

you know, a really harsh experience.

Let's sister's face in particular. And we just have to, we have to be very open about it, right? That sister being pushed away at the grave at the graveyard,

you know, told she can't do this. She can't do that there.

You know, if she tried to set her foot out the door in the daytime to go do something she needed to go do then like, Don't you dare you have to wear this particular cloth. And a lot of those questions came up and I and you know, I think it's important, let me just say that

it's important for us. If this hasn't been been reiterated enough throughout the webinar, there's the technical and then there's the like the prophetic empathy and the spirit and like understanding the mechanics

Understanding the moment that you're out and being very sensitive to that and not causing someone harm that they might not ever get over, you know, so in the name of a fifth opinion,

hurting someone in a way that would damage their Deen in the long term is just, it's just a terrible thing to do. So to be very careful for careful with that, and a lot of this is culture and mixes in a lot of culture with the dean. So there's the question about, you know, what is what is adornment in their head, the adornment and there is, is that which is of course considered,

you know, going beyond, you know, the normal state of being, it's not to, like, like wear a particular type of cloth or to or to self inflict any type of harm or punishment. But I want to address this to the Maasai, from that regard.

The ramen chef Abdullah of magic Abdullah,

what do you say about you know, some of these things, right, where sisters in particular have felt very unwelcomed hurt in some of these things. And of course, this risotto sister natural, but someone just the basic emotional intelligence in that regard. And I'm sure, I saw you both nodding your heads personal experiences that you've that you've witnessed in this regard. So what are some of the things that you can stay say to that?

No one wants to talk no.

This this is I think he's actually the sisters.

From from our end, you know, it's upon I think that you're absolutely right, that emotional intelligence plays a huge role in, you know, in any of these these types of circumstances. You know, number one, whenever I mean, I always think about, and it's an unrelated Hadith, but it comes to mind, where, you know, you think about how little schools I Salam used to deal with people, where a young man came to him and asked him for permission to commit Zina right to commit illegal sexual intercourse outside of marriage. And that also seldom responded with empathy. You know, he responded, he didn't yell at him. He didn't scold him. Right? He didn't even say this is absolutely

haram, or anything, even though it is. He said, Would you like it for? Would you like this for your mother? Would you like this for your sister? Right, he brought in the human aspect aspect, in something in something that is a very clear religious boundary, right. And so when it comes to something like this, where somebody's spouse has passed away, and they're grieving so deeply,

that it's the time for empathy, primarily, right? Like, that's what is needed in that circumstance. And that's what's going to be most effective, even when you're encouraging them toward anything Islamic, like, you know, a lot of times people say, you know, pray, it'll, it'll, it'll make you feel better. Right. And this person, might, that's absolutely true, right? Like, we know that prayer, reading clutter, and we know that there's healing in that. But when a person is sort of, and this is something that's not often discussed, when it comes to grief, even though it's such a major part of it, a lot of times people struggle with feelings of anger, when it comes to, you know, times

of grief. And you know, that that rebellion that kind of comes in, even spiritually, of I'm so angry about what's happening to me in this situation. And then now, on top of it, people are telling me to do certain things or not to do certain things, it's not going to go well. And, you know, keep in mind, also what happens to the brain and in moments of grief, in moments of grief, what is activated is like the danger center in the back of your brain, where you're feeling fear, you're feeling anger, you're feeling desperate sadness. And that then shuts down the, like, executive functioning part of your brain, which is for decision making judgment calls, which is why a lot of times we

don't do the things that we know will make us feel better.

Because our brain is not letting us do it at that moment. Right. And so what is something that helps to shut down that danger mode and that survival mode is empathy, is validation is letting people feel safe and stable and comfortable, right, not giving them more and more directives or, you know, telling them that what they're doing is haram in that moment, you know, so I think that we we do need to the emotional intelligence piece is, is really, really important when it comes to anything involving involving any stage of grief.

I think by the way, even the fact that the prophets like Selim, when he saw the woman that was crying at the great at the side of the grave, and the prophets like some gave her and I'll see her advice and she told him what do you know about what I'm going through? Like the prophets lie some did not he left the moment right to understand like, okay, like, and that's part of his prophetic methodology already. Salatu Salam

Like, I'm not gonna sit there and be like Well since you asked you know I very six of my seven children I've very my very Khadija very Zenith was Am I buried spouses of buried parents, I'm very children I'm buried a lot of people that are beloved to me. I know what somebody looks like know,

the profit slice I'm also understood that that was not a moment to to prolong that,

that discussion until she had she had been at a place where she could hear what she needed to hear from him it salatu salam so that's also part of the emotional intelligence that I think we need to have in that regard.

I wouldn't say that I started to look for your perspective on that. I mean, my mother, you know, like, same thing with her. She's like, you know, there's there's rulings with 50 rulings, where most things we know all you know, we, we, we've been reading it and studying it all her life. And then, and then, you know, I think Mohabbat could say cada dia dabba Mohabbat, there's a, like a smarter proverb. And in order, it's part of a poem, that loving someone teaches you the etiquettes of love, like, you know, you have to have empathy from your heart, you really have to have that, that itself will teach you the etiquettes of what to do now. Right? So you have people, we have these people

that go to the fall, the deaf, we follow the Janaza, with what people who are grieving, that are crying, and then we really are not equal participants in that grief, because we don't know how it feels. So we're standing at the foot of the grave talking about the new iPhone, right? Or talking about, you know, this hedge fund thing that just happened, I was at someone's grave in the dirt talking about that. And then you see a woman coming in. And of course, you're not in the right state of mind. So you're gonna say, hey, why don't you stay back a bit, you know? So you're not supposed to be here. Why is Why is this person here? So I've seen that we become full haha, we have to become

more being wish feeling like, we become fun, we become for ease, like folk Aha, and the member or on next to a grave, like, we have to become a person of love a personal chef, aka personal empathy. And then, of course, we have to then, you know, everyone's gonna make mistakes when they're, when they're when they're in emotions, you know, so, hopefully, that we have hope and the mercy of Allah that, you know, the sister, or these these women that are coming, or whatever the rulings are, this is not, you know, this, they will be Allah will encompass them in the mercy and, you know, we don't have to be judgmental and put, you know, throw rulings out here. My mother never ever went to a

grave in her life, to the cemetery in her life. But you know, what, to all those people who hold that for belief, really firm mashallah great. But I've seen that when she visits my brother's grave, you know, with, with with, you know, with separation and everything, she gets sorts of healing for her. Right? So, I mean, then when you have people that, oh, this shouldn't happen, that shouldn't happen. I think we have to have that element of Shafique, and Mohabbat, like compassion, empathy, and love. And then automatically if you have that for one another, it will teach us how to behave in those situations. We were lacking that. And we start seeing things. And we started becoming like,

folk Aha.

I have one last question I need to put out there and Sharla because it's a very important one and one that resonates?

Someone is about to pass away. And

you know, there is

there's a question of

when do I pull the plug?

And there's the flip of that, right, the jurisprudence of that. And then there's the question of Did I do it too early after they pass away?

For example, someone's, you know, had a major accident, and they're in the hospital, and the doctors have said, it's over. And some questions, you know, are surround that, right. It's there's the flip of making the decision, the jurisprudence and making a decision, but then there's sometimes a deep regret afterwards. And not being able to forgive oneself if you think that he might have done it too early. Or maybe they had a chance, and what if we would have left the machinery on for one more week? And, you know, there's another element of this in COVID, that's specific that someone brings, you know, COVID to the house, and someone else in the house passes away, and they survive. And I've

had some really, really, really painful discussions over the last few months in that regard. I mean, painful beyond words.

How do you live with the guilt of thinking I brought this upon that person, you know, and it's just very direct with COVID? Right, you know, before it's like, okay, like, that person wouldn't have been going to pick that up. If I didn't ask them to go pick that up and that's where the car accident happens.

So their regret in that regard. How do we deal with regrets

In that regard,

regrets that maybe we caused or we were a part of the misfortune that came to them

sister sobre, La Jolla, Chef Abdullah,

you have any thoughts inshallah

you know, I think that it's the, it's one of the hardest things when you feel like you're, you played a role in the passing of somebody that you love.

And it's something that is very, very difficult to get past. So Panama, I think one of the things that brings the most comfort is knowing that in the end, this person's life was never in your hands, you know, like that, no matter what, once a person's time comes, their time has come that almost pasa has decreed it in whatever way it would have happened, whether, you know, whether it was because COVID came into the home, whether it was because of a car crash at this moment, that moment was meant to be their moment, and we have absolutely no control over that. Subhanallah and, you know, I think that

processing through that, and kind of saying it out loud, you know, one of the one of my favorite therapeutic techniques is like they call it, name it to tame it, you know, where you you kind of say out loud, this, this idea that, you know, I I feel responsible for this person's death. And sometimes when you say it out loud, you realize that how, how profoundly inaccurate it is, right? Because when you're saying that you are taking in a there's like a, like a quality of Allah's pant that only belongs to Allah is Pat data, to be responsible for a person's death are responsible for a person's life. It's, it's not within our power, and it's not within our hands. And I think it's very

important to be able to realize that, and then to channel that pain, you know, like we've been talking about so consistently, to channel that pain, you know, and if the words can't come, to be able to, you know, to consider what diet you want to make, specifically what type of southern Nigeria you want to do specifically for this person. I mean, I'm always profoundly moved by the diet, I have no habits that I'm where he turns to Allah stands out, and he says, I feel so defeated. So help me right, like there's there's no words, you know, I just feel defeated. And so help me you know, and asking us Pat data, to help to alleviate that. But no matter what the what ifs are some of

the most damaging and dangerous things. And so the reason why the promise SLM told us, you know, to not say low, right, if only because it opens the door for shaitan. And, and psychologically, absolutely. All of the what ifs the past regrets of, you know, you know, what, if I had done this differently, what if I had done this differently? It's not about what if it's about what now, right? Now that this person has passed away, regardless of the circumstances? How are you going to find meaning in their passing? How are you going to you know, live their legacy in a way that's going to be meaningful for you and inshallah meaningful for them as well. And that's really the only thing

that that that we can we can do, regardless of the circumstances of their death.

come alongside on that's very profound. And I think that's a perfect note for us to probably wrap this up in Charlotte's Island, not the what ifs the what nouns, I never connected the Hadith don't say Kenny met lo don't say if, in this regard, but truly, you know, if only this conversation would have been different, if only I would have done this, if only I would have done that. If only what now means, you know, if you for example had a bad relationship, or you feel like you wish you would have had a better conversation? Well, what about those who are still alive in your life that you love? How are you going to change your conversations with them?

You know, so The what now is is is activating the what if really holds people back, it opens the doors of shape on and it stops you from doing anything that could better your life or hereafter and better, better things for them as well. So just a little haven for that. I think that's wonderful.

And somehow I'll just say, you know, the, the idea of, of empathy and speaking to someone in that regard,

because I think this is this is really profound. You know, I remember

having to make the phone call to Chahat and Dr. Huntsman Hodge one, my mother, like, somehow was declared brain dead.

And it's like, I didn't want him

to say that we could, that we could remove the machinery but at the same time, like I kind of knew that he was going to say that.

And

may Allah preserve him. He he

He cried as if it was his own mother

over the phone.

And I hope he doesn't mind me sharing that.

But it really taught me a lot about what it means to be prophetic not just in grieving for yourself but in helping someone else. You know, realizing this, these decisions that you tell someone yes no, even in giving fatwa and some of these situations, they're,

they're not just, they're not just yes or nose. There's a lot, a whole lot in between there. So may Allah azza wa jal allow us to be prophetic in our grieving prophetic in our comforting

and may Allah join us with the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam agenda for a dose Allahumma Amin, I can't tell you how much I appreciate each and every single one of you being so open, vulnerable and giving of yourself to try to help people process these complex emotions. May Allah subhanaw taala help all of those that are grieving outside. And I want to just sort of end off by you know, saying that that does come a little height into the team behind the scenes as well Yaqeen and those that supported that support resources, the whole team came together to put together the series. At the last minute it's not easy, stringing together a series of the sort I mean, obviously I prepared

the content but at the same time, who puts up who records who puts the videos together who who strings it together tells the story of it and that's a whole team and a lot of people on our team felt that way.

Because they have been through these types of tragic losses themselves so May Allah help all of them that are grieving as well. So make dua for the whole team please inshallah Thai again. We appreciate your support. We appreciate the the way that you you help us to be in this position in sha Allah to Allah to be a source of comfort to you and we pray that we've been a source of comfort and clarity as an organization to all of you and we pray that Allah subhanaw taala guides us to do better for ourselves and for our Ummah, Zach Malachite on, once again to all the panelists here and Zachman la Highlands, everyone who tuned in Subhanak Allah Hamal the hamburger shadow stuff we look forward to

would equal solid almost everybody kind of you know, Muhammad Ali, he was stuck on the train was Salam Alaikum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh