Channel: Mohammed Hijab
I said I want to come on how much delay what accounts on Welcome to the fourth podcast episode? The M h podcast Mohammed hijab podcast. Today we're joined with none other than Apple Tamia was dead Apple Tamia, someone who's been spending comedy isn't now in Vienna in last four years yeah, last four years and Medina Mashallah doing Islamic Studies. And he has got many drawers and online many of the halaqaat lectures online. And today we want to get into some controversial questions as we do in this very controversial podcast with Austin potamia. But before we do so, I wanted to ask just a general question maybe starting off about your experiences in Medina. And I mean, how have you found
the journey of seeking knowledge? What advice would you give to someone generally about seeking knowledge? Hmm hamdu Lillahi Rabbil alameen wa salatu salam ala MB mursaleen Nabina Muhammad wa ala alihi wa sahbihi wa seldom at the Sleeman kathira on my bad.
We often assume that seeking knowledge is not like studying physics,
okay? Or like accounting, science, whatever it might be that we study in the universities, right? engineering.
These studies, this is your last panel Tada. Okay.
As you may or may not have a long time I mentioned from the cradle to the grave, right. So it's not just like a profession that we spend a couple of years with. But rather, it's a journey, the moment you go with it, is gonna follow you follow you up all the way up to your grave, right. And this is why even some of the scholars, Hannah law before they passed away, they would be carrying a prof like papers of the Hadith
that they were getting, though, that they were writing down. And some of them like even on the desktop as a head it would come to their minds. And they would want to write down you see. So it's something that continues from the moment that you start that journey all the way up till your death and it requires a lot of patience really, really does. Okay, I know it's a wonderful thing to be known as the die, to be giving power to the people and it comes with a lot of rewards as well as the messiness allottee, or some sediment died and houda cannonau eduroam Islam and TBR hula and Casa del camino de Sha. Okay, whoever calls the guidance for him is the reward of everyone that follows him
up on that guidance, and he won't take anything away from him. And then look what he also said. Woman dialogue Bharati, Canada, who is momento br who will lie on Costa Rica, mina samim, Shia and whoever host misguidance for him is the sin of everyone that followed him up on that misguidance. Okay.
So it can work both ways. You can maybe even call it a double edged sword, right? So he requires time and requires patience. You know, my Judo Monica Annie Bible, hoceima harmony, and we shouldn't try to be kind of like hasty wanting to be out.
I remember also the share of our Messiah mobile Bill benhadad. Widely, I would say, if I had the ability to take the knowledge and to pour it into your mouths the same way water and milk would be poured
in your throats, then I would have done that. But the only way you can attain knowledge is by the scraping of the knees and the scraping of
your toes, right? scraping of the knees, the scraping of the toes and the scraping of the elbows. So it takes time. You know, it takes a lot of effort. I remember when using the match the four years that I spent in Yemen, before that it wasn't easy.
I remember Subhan Allah, we would only get water once every two days. And sometimes the water wouldn't come through our taps, like for days on end. Electricity would come for a couple of hours, every two to three days. And sometimes it wouldn't even happen. Okay. And we would have to like go out and you know, take the water and just so we can fill up our bucket. So
you stop out and move it just as a minute because you mentioned you're not going to attain knowledge, which is the relaxation of the body. It requires effort. It requires no time. It also reminds me of something that Imam Shafi Rahim Allah Allah mentioned. The other al Qaeda took testable Miley woman Paula Bella Ruda Sara Lee, in accordance to how much effort you put in. Okay, this is how you're going to attain loftiness amen Paula Bella rouda Sara Lee, Aman ROM Andrew Lamanna Lady Catherine Murphy, Paula Bella Mohali and whoever doesn't put the effort in, he's just going to be wasting his time.
You're gonna be chasing the impossible Tirumala is so meta malelane yo Salva Herman falabella.
You want to become honored you want a high position while you sleep at night.
And then he gives the example of somebody who's ready to risk his life. He dives into the sea to get the Pels from under the sea, right? What kind of risk would we be willing to take to do something like that? So
Yemen like, I remember when I first got to Medina,
brother called Shahab de Salafi are benefits from in Hamburg, he felt he took me into the dorms.
And he said to me, over time, you're going to struggle with these dorms.
And I said to him, after we got running water,
we got running electricity, we didn't even have dynamic. Okay? So sometimes, you know, going out being in places like Egypt, Mauritania, Yemen, obviously, now there's a lot of issues in Yemen, you're gonna have to put a lot of effort in, okay. And that which we come up with, Allah has absolutely nothing to
what the self came out with having gone through all of that difficulties. But anyways, this is a, I don't want to prolong it. But I've got a video on my YouTube channel is called he drank his urine six times.
This was the case of some of the people of the past, they would drink their urine because they would, out of what you call it. necessity. Because they're walking in the desert, they don't have no water, they don't have anything.
So that's, that's very motivating, I think a lot of people will take a lot of benefit and gems from that, especially those who live in, you know, modern day societies where everything is fast is quick, everything is accessible.
So jack can walk in for that, that's very insightful I want to move on to now is, perhaps it was on a lot of people's mind, in many ways, could be seen as the elephant in the room, which is
there's a lot of kind of,
reputation reputations, you want to call it that that you're involved in, or that you are associated with maybe not directly involved in yourself. Some time ago, you can speak his corner, there was some kind of drama between you and another sheet. And it was surrounding the case of Hitler had died. And a particular video that came out basically the shy, he went to a dominant power, which is that he went to a place where he was discussing with the Shia and stuff like that. And then, you know, from that there was all kinds of conclusions that were made on his character. I just want to ask you a direct question. Do you were you involved in that? Were you part of the the backing that
that woman had for that video? Do you agree with that? Do you endorse that? Do you think that that was something which is fair, that was said about that? Or do you think that that's something that maybe shouldn't have been done?
So there's a number of things that we can actually mention with regards to that, right?
Because you asked a couple of questions as well. Did they? Or did he have the backing of myself before he made the video? Okay, or was it just after? and so on and so forth? Right?
Firstly, I personally didn't know about the video till after it came up. I was hearing about a video that's going to be released. Okay. Did I know about it beforehand? And that is, that's not correct. And, uh, no, no, obviously, because of a video that went out between him and Sajid aren't even know they were making a video. But it comes across there that the team was this was that was consulted.
And, and also, my name was mentioned in good light by both of the brothers. So one could easily think that I kind of authorize it, which I did, okay.
But there is mistakes that I did.
And I'm not just gonna, like throw somebody under the bus and kind of free myself and just, you know, run away from the situation.
There is mistakes that I did
that I really, really, really regret. And I began to think more about it when I got to Medina, because when there is
a lot of battles taking place, and you're on the ground, it's like a war zone, right? Or something that doesn't really allow you to just think outside of the box.
But when you kind of like just step out, he allows you to look at things in a better perspective.
and of course that incident without notice she they happen just before I went to Medina, like I was even planning to go to Hyde Park. Me and my cousin said, I think, you know,
we happen to be eating and Edgware Road. I was you know, going to be leaving very soon. So I want to spend my some good time with one of my sons.
reposes, right. So he follows a lead on Snapchat. So he slides down he goes, Oh, this is cool. And I've never been there before. I've never ever been there before. So we're gonna come on to that later anyways in Charlottetown exactly what happened.
Okay, just reminded me just in case I forget. So, when I got to Medina,
I just really just started thinking about this issue more, some brothers did come up to me in a very nice way. And they said, You know, I just want you to, you know, maybe just think about everything that you did know, was a good thing was enough. So that got my thinking going on.
Until one day, I think this was like two three weeks in a brotherhood Omar was the son of law, the son in law of Dr. Haytham right came up to me
I was thinking how dumb I was reading a hadith
and and I didn't know who he was, I didn't know who he was.
And and he basically pointed out that incident right
and and he mentioned the other incident as well about the student loans that when we went to quit
so we had discussions on number of things and there's no need for me to mention them because a majority stupid manner, but I'm going to mention this issue. This one issue.
The moment he brought up Dr. Haytham I said him look we need to argue and Alka lotta Elisa, I don't mean Camille lupone beam of limited feeddemon Ilana are the messengers alive he was mentioned when they asked him that to put down the prices after everything started becoming inflated right.
So he said this didn't I want to meet Allah as origin? This is what the mister licensing, right? And none of you guys are asking me, almost none of you guys are making a complaint against me with regards to blood money with regards to the wealth of the people and so on and so forth. And rod, the people's honest Come on this is all right.
And ever since then, I just started thinking about I promised him that I'm going to look into the issue. This is right the beginning exactly like four years ago that I'm gonna look into it, I'm gonna research the issue. And
and to be very honest with you, I kind of just got very occupied
but the thing just started, you know, every now and again it will just come back to life again, like in the harem being in the harem.
And just seeing the difference the war like the different tourists who come from Oman Hajj subpanel, I actually began to realize how powerful YouTube is.
I don't think I realized that till after actually got to Medina because Medina is like a central point for Muslims to come right. And people watch you online. And the repercussions I didn't see how bad it was it actually got there certain things, not just necessarily my issue, but other things that happen and and whatever have you right? So of course it's from Allah azza wa jal, you know, videos going out and getting views and reaching different parts of the world. So every now and again, I would see people from around the world coming up to me and stopping me.
Many of them really just appreciating, but some people, they would just point this issue out. So it's like a lot as though God was keeping this issue fresh in my mind.
And to not just sleep on it.
And so two years in, it kind of just went like that. Once the two year mark went by,
I started taking this issue much, much more seriously, like brothers are bringing their arguments about that specific incident, not speaking
to him head that they're
having gone to Russia, for the purpose of uniting with them.
Okay. And was that the case? Was that not the case? And everybody brings me the arguments you have those who are pro and those who are against it, right.
And I really just started taking this issue much more seriously.
think about it for a moment. Well, I don't think any of us want to have
you know, the oppression on our backs. Something very powerful that
eleutheroside mentioned about underwriting or a man wrote a letter to him. This is in Sierra lemon novella. He asked him a Nic to LA maquila send me all of knowledge
it's a big it's a big question right? Now I'm only allowed to highlight Norma responded back and he said in the
novel knowledge is too vast. we're lacking. But in its data and tala tala
huffy for Bari
minima in us, if you are able to meet Allah subhanho wa Taala and you're not carrying the burden of having taken lives, okay, Hama, Sol botany and Mr. Lim. And your stomach is void from the wealth of the people. Carefully Santa Ana Ravi, and you've managed to refrain your tongue from that, you know, the the honor of people, right, last human Mishima artemisinin.
And you're sticking to the Gema congregation of the Muslims and do so.
Okay, he could have told talk to him about anything.
Look what he's actually advising you about.
Okay. And, and that's not a lie, Mark really, really isn't a light matter. And so you're studying at the same time, you know, the evidence is about volume about oppression. Having said something they shouldn't have said, because he just because somebody is wrong in something. It doesn't justify you now to start pinning up against them everything else? Okay. refutations are part of our religion. Okay, it's something that the Sharia calls to something that is mentioned in a Heidi it is something that the messiness of it wasn't done, the company has done it. Those who came after them, they all did it. Okay. And even entertainment, I'm allowed to highlight I mentioned some very, very, very
powerful statements. He says,
image will be de la Amati. mean,
the coolest innovation, there scholars are more dangerous upon the oma than the people who do know the people who sin. He then he then says what do you think Amara and Abby's ally with them? Good afternoon, how are rich Wanda and Kathleen.
This is why the messenger is commanded to kill the house the heart dies, that's how they translate right?
as any other word that you guys use.
He commanded that they are killed. But he said not to kill the oppressive rulers is even routine but I am allowed to add in another place he says
and so also you can find it in much more fatawa he says way that Canada can limit their inability if the one who's speaking is calling the people to innovation.
For a number who Yojimbo and ubian. It is a must the his situation is clarified to the people. Okay. And then he goes on to say we're definitely not re
removing his hums is more better, more greater? Okay, then removing the harm of a highway bandit out there.
Okay. Like for example, Mohammed, let's be honest here, if you see a pedophile
who's going to do something to his right,
you're gonna want the people from him right?
or wrong thing that and this is something related to
the integrity of our loved ones and whatever have you And likewise, someone's gonna steal something from you're gonna want that person and a dean the religion of Allah subhanho wa Taala is far greater than this. Having said that, having said that,
when rebuking he requires a lot of hikma okay.
And this is exactly what not Abraham a lot and I mentioned it goes at HEC motto
here fit into my emberley allergy lady unbelievable walk dilithium bar, it has to do that which is appropriately fitting, okay, in a manner that is befitting and also the time has to be befitting as all and they mentioned three pillars.
first pillar that he mentioned, it has to be done with knowledge. And then he also mentioned and Halo 100. And then he mentioned the three opposites and I'm going to come on to that. So, okay, it has to be done with knowledge. You can't just basically say something about someone. That is not true. Are you connecting this with
doctors? Yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna come into that. Right. It's important that we mentioned this because it's a taboo topic. And I believe sometimes there's two extremes on this matter right.
So with him he has to be done with knowledge then you have also on him
which basically means not acting on emotions, someone's upset you and he's angered you and Jani who was I mean, these are translators forbearance. Okay, forbearance. Janya lob turnips and hear Johnny pub. Okay, like somebody's angry, don't rush the kind of like punishing him and holding him to account and then and that is to just think about things like slowly, not to be hasty and rushing into it. And I believe that I actually was very hasty just listening
to one side and seeing some parts of some videos cut up and I take the full blame for it. Yeah, Dr. Hayden he does a show. by the sheer
We'll call you know, speak more about it in a bit inshallah Tada, okay? And even above the line, Masood, he says something about very powerful. He said, lacuna. edralin Medallia busara Do not be individuals or hasty or rushed announcing things. Right. Okay, and unveiling the secrets and of the discussions that happen and so on and so forth. So just rushing into things you're in need of and this summoned up message us a lot It was sent him said that I really loved when you were speaking Dutch and was placed right in a few consulate in Milan Henman and it
and he mentioned the three opposite things of that. He said, a General Ignorance
base on thoughtfulness. I think that's how they translate right?
And Elijah hastiness.
So going back to what I was saying, even if the guy is a cashier, like you refuse atheists all the time, right, and you speak about the Christians and I'm just bringing the West example here. If that Christian
believes that Jesus is the Son of God, you are not allowed to say about him islamically speaking and is the fairness that our religion came with that is it is a son of God
you can't see about the individual what which has no reality whatsoever Okay, check with me says hello hello Leo. I hadn't I hadn't volcanic caffeine is not lawful for you to
oppress any individual even if the guy's a caffeine. And then he mentioned the same amount of allies while he manakamana an omen Allah Allah
who Acropolis aka be fair Don't let the hate that you have for people entice you to being unjust. Even if the guy's a Shia, Shiite, right? He's cursing why we are allowed to add on I don't know what you call it. Some of them might have Tokyo or whatever have you right? But because he's now casting Well, you can't just pin against that individual that has a book on an ominous oh, let alone anyone else who is less in danger than the Shiites and the Christian like the one is even if the guys in Harney, the guy is a Sufi Deobandi wherever Bellavia, sometimes you find that deobandis refuting the brevis. And the other way around and this group is refuting that group selfie might be refuting you
cannot say about that individual, which hasn't done if you're going to rebuke him rebuke him for what he said what he's done. Okay.
so I just feel like
that issue about the Shiite
was a bit of that kind. So let me just quickly mention exactly what kind it wasn't. It wasn't it was it wasn't fair at all. It was it was it was totally unjust. So, as I'm coming up to the two years is really bothering me now. Right? Why did you before you can tell you that? Sorry? What made you come to that conclusion? Now? I mean, Jimmy, Jimmy was what was the thing? Because So from what I understand so far in the picture, you didn't endorse it in the beginning, but then you kind of looked into it and thought, actually, this seems like a cut and paste job, maybe or it's being mushed together, in a way, which is not favorable, makes it look something like it's not. So
what exactly about it, you think is unfair about it? Okay, I'm gonna come on to that. So. So now the last two years, every now and again, I think about it, I asked Eliza gel to help me deal with this issue in the best and most correct way, right?
praying is taharah. I've even went to the Kaaba. Okay. And then one year before that, I dropped a message to Dr. Hasan. And he's What's up, I've got a number. And I dropped a message to him about the issue of today, calling him an innovator quoting him in the honey, right? I never did that. Just because a friend of mine, okay.
If your associates, they do something, it's not fair. Again, for you to be painted with the same brush. I just wanted to claim myself with him. And I clearly and explicitly said to the chef, Chef, I do not agree with the stances that you take and the views that you have. And I'm not gonna go into the other things that we discussed then. Because it's not right.
discusses right now, right.
I said I hadn't I do not agree with you, but I did not say that. Okay, if I'm going to do on you, I've got nothing to do with that. You see what I'm saying? Do you know anyone else other than in the in the group of Manhattan that did that pronounced that ruling?
Let's be more specific, maybe coining the horn. Right? So you have to understand that but it's anonymous for them for like four forms, and Hassani considers that there one are deviant sector and so therefore. So this is synonymous one innovate the same thing. Yeah.
And I mean, like, just so we're clear exactly what we're saying in it, you know, but because somebody wanted us to do if declared that individual to innovate, if you depend if you think that it, why not? Yeah, deviant sounds I say, which there is there is, I mean, you wouldn't say that there's mounds of Acosta cooling there one deviant set. For example, if you bring us he says a lot of sector, shuffling debris and etc. Many people say that, you know, fitocracy ESEA. They're not they're not really a sector, in essence, the Islamic definition of a set law here, the thing is, if we're going to say, Ah, man, I would have to know what every single scholar said, No, I don't think
I've done it a lot, like haven't collected every single scholar because it means that every scholar in that time, he has to agree and take a position of a certain Yeah, even even even more problematic. I was reading sorry to cut you off. This might be a tangent, but I was reading 100. Okay. And Tamia was talking about who's included in his mind. And what makes it more difficult is that he actually includes a mock test and
it's gonna be difficult to get. He's not conditioned in order for a group to be misguided. You don't always what you're calling either ninja Matt, for everything
in order for hokum to take place, right? Like not to be Muslim, for not even Muslim. I'm just speaking about if we clearly established that this sect is totally misguided. Do I really need an age map before and help them can be made by a scholar? Possibly, not really looking for tools? Now, I'm not talking about I'm going to impose this on you. And you have to take this. I'm not basically saying that you have to take a view or the view, if the chef says, and there's even maybe, even if there's one person with him, or even if no one ever have to be a delete, you know, what really matters is the evidence is not being brought forward. Right. But I can't force it upon you to say,
do you have to take this? And if you don't take that you're innovative? Agreed? Well, perfmon me But
yeah, that is subjective. So yeah, this is a acceptable, yeah. But what I was gonna say was that this point of going back to this clear, like, let's be honest, they consider him an innovator, someone who's not so nice. He said that in the park, that when he came in, they said that, yeah, don't lose some money, blah, blah, blah, he made that kind of articulation. So you're saying you don't have anything to do with that.
And there is a difference between declaring somebody an innovator and one having fallen into innovation this way. She only sent me says, Lisa Coleman. What coffee coffee for caffeine, right? What is the koulamallah Coffee? I think for most of them, not everyone that falls into coffee, forget about beta, right? You can call him a Kava, there's marijuana. There's preventative and there's conditional. And not everybody that falls into a bit. Can you call him an idiot, okay, that to be we need to really just differentiate between the two. Okay, I might say, Okay, this person has these big acts with him these innovations with him. That doesn't mean I'm calling him an innovator
to do something huge, right? Okay.
This is not a light matter. So you're saying you said Allah.
Allah is Allah d'origine Manila? Manifesto. So for you now that you have to understand, like, these kind of things are normally done in a court case. And you get hold to account for, you know, compensations go out because of what you say actually about a person when it comes to taking him out, keeping him in. Right. Do you think that so therefore, do you think? Do you think that that was a mistake on their behalf to make that decision? I'm saying this is an issue that none of us should be speaking about. It's an issue that needs to be taken to the scholars. Okay. Well, either Mr. Amin and me I will hopefully there'll be one or do
you see what I'm saying? These are big affairs that doesn't go back to myself, yourself. The students of knowledge who are in the UK, even in the West, actually, this is an issue, leave it to the scholars, this is their job. Okay. You see what I'm saying? So, that's what that's what should have happened. That's what should have happened. And I sent it to both of them as well. And even if let's be fair, just to, if they took it to the scholars, and the scholars pronounced him Yeah, it's not. It's not we have to follow that scholar. They have a right to say that, but that they have a right to do nothing of it. Like what
do you mean by okay? He's an innovator, right? And because he's an innovator, all you guys have to follow me on this. And if you don't follow me on this, then you guys have got issues. That was Haha, yeah. Because sometimes a person you might not necessarily become clear to him. Yeah, you see what I'm saying? So there's a lot of like things attached. A lot of strings attached. Don't think we can go through an hour just discussing your first attempt there and to clear books have been written on it. The scholars have spoken about it extensively. And it's an academic discussion that you need to go back to his books.
About the viewer, not necessarily yourself. Okay. Yeah, yeah. So, but yeah, so your position now is clearly I feel like you're saying that that was something that you think was not the right thing to have done. So let me actually explain now how actually came to this point. Okay.
So there's like one year left now, right. So this very moment I, I dropped him a message and I said, I don't make the deal.
Until I run into
the brother of Yeah, I've met. Okay, yeah. And we stayed in the same hotel. This was like the first time we actually spoke and we discussed a lot of issues.
disclosing this or what I don't IE from what I've heard, he said his opening, okay. Okay. That's why I'm not discussing anything else. But he said look, I I disagree with Dr. Hastings physicians. back what you guys done? Yeah, that was a pressure.
I remember he said some he said the item Yes. Oh, Allah, you know, like a normal person. Do mean all the yummy.
And do not do they not think that they're going to stand in front of the laws, that they're gonna be resurrected on your camera for
Leo minalima a great day,
the day when the people are going to be stunning in front of their nose, right.
At that moment, he put shivers down my back.
and he basically said to me, go check the video. There was I wasn't aware of this video. I
did a poor video video. On the actual the whole. I think it was like a 14 minute what he was going to the bank this year on the mission that he was going to unite with them. Yeah. So yeah, that one he says, I think after that they put it out as the counter pot to what was gonna say, yeah, it's like a 40 minute one. They put English subtitles and everything as well. And they put out
if I'm not wrong, I don't think I've ever seen that video before. I think that night, I watched it eight times.
And I mentioned it with john Zola. When I got to that.
They had like, um, what do you call it? A Hawaiian
or something? I think it was it was about uni.
Yeah. And, and, and he was
the sixth or seventh time I burst on entities. I broke down into tears. And I've went through a cab after that.
Just asked a loss because now I'm in a situation now, because I said something publicly in the machine debate which we're going to come into in a minute. Yeah. And I defended our stance. Right. Okay. And I also spread it. And there was many times that I justified now, right? And so many here, how many people watched that video? It's a good quarter a million, both of them? Yeah. I'm on video analysis videos. Oh, yeah, that video gave me a lot of publicity as all. So no, but now you're saying that that was right. Practically vote as a book, but he just got Well, we're gonna come into that promise we're gonna come into.
I'm in a position. Now I have to clarify this publicly. Yeah.
Because even as entertainment mentioned that whatever is done privately, you deal with it privately. And whatever is done publicly, you have to you have to you have to deal with it publicly. Right. As I mentioned earlier, the dinner table was right, because I did it publicly. Now. I have to at least make sure that to the best of my ability, I can get that message across to all these people who may have taken out from that video, that what I was saying was correct. If I come to the conclusion on this, so are you saying because you've quoted the verse
for like, a two volume?
Are you are you making a making repentance? publicly on this map? Yeah, of course. Why am I making this video for the reason I'm making this video is I have to, like clarify this, you see what I'm saying? And
so, so yeah. So when he said that to me, and I watched that video that very night, and this is in front of the camera, right?
Human if something has to be done, right. And, and obviously, at that time, all these ideas are going through your head and you know, your friends do me a favor and moral meaning because at the end of the day, even though they might, I'm close to them, he's not gonna come and stand in front of Allah as a way to defend my cause. You see what I'm saying? As I mentioned, we'll call lumati yamaki Amati. For that every person is going to come by himself, the day when the brother is going to run away from his brother and mother and so on and so forth. Right? And,
and just as I defended my brothers in the past, and they loved for me to defend them.
It's important that someone else should get that as well. You see what I'm saying? Just like as you love to be defended. I'm sure you'll accept this or that
the defense's against you know,
so okay for the last month or like the last month, because I have a little studio in my flat and I was like I just, I've been thinking about how can I would you call it
really just get this out? How can I deal with it? And, and then though these two videos came out,
and he's just some Hannah lemon, and I just happened to happen, you know?
So yeah, so where are we at the moment serious? So you're at a point where I was talking about, he watched the video seven, eight times. And you came to conclusion that was going to be associated with that to defend that position. Yeah.
Because like I said, you know, with a data sheet, yeah, that discussion was a discussion that I had with nanosheet. I stood by that position. And I even said that this has caused confusion and everything of what he was doing. And I've heard some of the arguments or the brothers ring, that he woke up that day, to go and unite with the Shia. Okay, this is what the whole the whole conversation was about.
When I went back to the video here, the fact that as soon as they let him speak, okay, his blasting what's in the books and everything and, and he keeps on repeating in qunar, nudy to atacado. We're gonna unite
for nabooda knowledge and Takeda. We have to we have to treat and cure the heater. Because everything runs on hack equals duel, you know, countries are built on Al Qaeda.
And, and heard some of the arguments and above as I mentioned, as all that
okay, babe, what what are they going to leave? Like? Are they going to leave just
cursing the companions and everything else?
So even if they leave of some of these points, they still she is right there. So she has, so he's going to unite with them, even though there she is, having left of some of these points that are quite major.
But at the end of the day, I I kind of think that's how can I put this up as I'm in the process of committing so I
mentioned all the things that you know, the of course, even when you go into debate now, right when you go into debate
Okay, how last get rid of this, then we'll have another discussion. You see, I'm saying Yeah, and they came at a time mentioned to me that this is something that she only 17 you mentioned, well, I tried to find out until now, I haven't found it, but I'm still looking for it.
But this is what he quoted to me at the time.
Okay, so I believe he was it was kind of like just really being fair. You know, he was he when he said that, to me, it was just being really being fair.
And so yeah, when I was in Hyde Park,
I didn't even go there to the bathroom. That's the first time I've ever been to a park. I live in Leicester. Like I mentioned, I went there to
have lunch with my cousin. And because he follows an hour Yeah, because this coaster Park is off just go to Hyde Park. So I go there and lucky.
Me The funny thing is Allah Tao was actually debating with
with one of these
one of these one of these capture guys who maybe you know him, he's a black African guy who was trying to make the religion of Islam look very barbaric. Okay, and the message to them is really bloodthirsty to take lives and whatever have you. So Ali Dawa is debating him so when I get there
I'm listening right? And I'm just like really wanting to just you know, say something to this guy so early that what goes on you know what, I don't know the best speak to him.
So I'm basically throwing it at this guy versus this guy right? And the guy is basically getting to the point he can't answer to some of the if the verse you're saying that the religion is barbaric, and it forces people so I just gave you all the if
it's not happening, right? while this is happening. Adnan Rashid calls me because I want to speak to you
and me at that point, like I've heard good things about nanosheet I don't know him like that john Fontaine said some good things about him that they've traveled together. And
I the only time that I know Adnan Rashid is from the debate
from the debate that of the house and when he was debating authority that was sitting there, right.
Adnan Rashid is messaging me in a very, very respectful. Okay.
I know that I'm not sure now I know.
Yeah. So but the point is, he's being very respectful. Yes, yes. Yeah. So that's the only thing that I've ever known of him. So he's saying shampoo team and make sure you say this, make sure this gets to him. I've never seen him from them. So all my relationship with him is a very respectful Yes, he does. He does that with with people that he
says, you know, and that's a very respectful way to speak to
Someone even shocking. Yeah, of course. I've never taught him anything like he's older than me and everything right? So the point in all of this is, you're speaking in a very respectful way. That's all I've ever known of you. You call me to the park like, and I can see me is very, very angry, very upset.
And I don't understand why he's upset why he's screwing. Until we actually start the discussion. We honestly didn't watch the whole discussion. So I thought, I watched it like highlights and stuff. But but the gist of it from what I understand is that basically, like you said, You are defending that position. And he was not he was saying he was upset. He was angry and
yeah, no, he wasn't even to do he was basically saying, we we went from one topic to another topic and no, no topics. It wasn't like a healthy way of having a discussion. Okay. That's why that's why even cleaning the video keeps saying, Let's go sit there. Let's go south sac. See the guys angry. Mr. Lawson. What do you say? You're standing up and you're angry gonna sit down? If you're sitting down, go lie down. Right.
So and I wasn't trying to disrespect him. I wasn't being horrible towards him. I can see why he's upset. Because how about this? How about that? We'll pull it up behind us. Yeah.
I I don't Well, I mean, Adnan Rashid.
And to that debate, which was I think, maybe like two weeks before, or maybe like three weeks before our discussion in Hyde Park, right. I wouldn't even call even America. It was just I wasn't that wasn't that was it?
It was just an argument. And and I don't like what would put to you now on this on this issue on the machine is, it seems like you and him on the same page, in a sense that you don't you both believe in the same things and like, you're agreeing that, you know, that should devolution of power, which I think was the main point. Let me make this very crystal clear. I'm speaking about that point. Yeah. of Dr. Hasan. Yeah.
I think it was basically just trying too hard. Yeah, yeah. And what was said about him? Like, there's other things that if you wanted to refute that, you could refute him. But that point, I believe he was wrong. You'd have to get someone on his level. To be fair, that's Yes. Otherwise, it would just I mean, what if an end user perspective, you will just remove it? Like? I mean, I'm happy some I want to see, I want to hear I personally want to hear a second opinion on a student loan issue on
my student loan. Yeah, well, the voting issue, every position is controversial. Yeah. But it's gotta be someone you know, because even if, say, for example, is this, let's say that people have the knowledge and the end of them? Yeah, let's just agree. It's just not gonna be taken seriously from the end user. So if someone's on his level, right, and comes out, and his age and his experience or whatever, and has the tools that he has, and provides an academic reputational response? I'll listen to it. You know, I mean, but the only thing I hear that's a problem with the listener himself, like in the sense where,
and of course, this is what academia does to the people, right? PhD, PhD, Masters masters baccalaureate
even mentioning like, I'm not talking about as qualifications I'm just, I'm thinking more about
in the as an industry, like, how long have you studied for? I mean, if you're a person, I'm not trying to take a degree anyway, obviously talking about you in particular, but if you're a person that has barely grappled with Arabic language, and doesn't know how to string a sentence together, or don't know how to speak in the Arabic language, and hasn't memorized,
and, and so on, so I don't have animal Ella, they don't have it. Well, they have it on a very superficial level, and then you go out and attack
or something. Forget, I should have had that. Yeah. Oh, he's got as much more controversial opinions, or Hamza Yusuf, who's got some controversial opinions, especially so you're not gonna be accepted? And the reason why is just because the guys Ah, the guy's credentials, the guys, he's been in the game longer than you have. And it's just it's not like for like, if that makes sense. It's not like for like, so.
That's what we're especially on matters where you need to clean it more than satay more than superficial knowledge. And I think that's my just my view on it. I might be wrong. But I think a lot of people from from the feedback I've been getting is, they would kind of look in that direction. You know what I mean? Someone who's a bit older someone is and is not personally emotionally invested in Asia. But look, let's focus on the positives. Yeah, I think that the positives in this situation is that that people are coming towards the same kind of understanding when it comes to some deontic fear. Let's have a more nuanced approach. Otherwise, I believe is going to be chaos.
There will be chaos. There is going to just the issue is just you're going to find a bunch of individuals, okay. Yeah, just coming out. And speaking about these very big issues, okay. I just leave it for me just to let them do their thing. Okay. Yeah. You know, Allah is not gang.
given us that that kind of responsibility. Yeah, yeah. And I'm humbled. Because if he has, then we would be in big trouble if we get things wrong. Yeah. You know, and so that's one thing. So now you would say that
you're okay with that? No, shoot. You're happy. We have nothing. I don't think not here to be honest with you. I don't think I've had anything in my heart towards him. I just think the way you shake his hand. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Like, I don't know what your holy. Um, I don't watch his videos. I don't know what is good is good. I like
the thing is, he's a beast in his face a monster in his field. The thing is, I just haven't even like, I don't personally watch videos. That's just me. Now. The other one that I get sent them, I click on it, but I'm just on this older kind of, like, on this point.
In the Muslim world right now. Yeah. And he's got, he's got stuff that you'd benefit from, I'm sure he got stuff you'd benefit from. And that's one of the biggest tragedies in these things that he that both of you are working on different lines of, of knowledge. Like, you know, many people have listened to, you know, I'm thinking Mashallah, he's memorized many, you know, acquire a thought or ahaadeeth, you know, beautiful, that's, that's, that's something we're missing. Because we don't necessarily focus on these issues. But somewhat like I'm gonna shoot. On the other hand, if you want to hear about early Christian history, if you want to hear about Indian history, if you want to hear
about, you know, comparative religion, if you want to hear about, you know, all these things. I mean, and that's these are really like, important things. I've heard he's got a master's in history. Oh, yeah. He's got an awesome history degree, a monster in history. And it's not just that he's been in the field for a long he's got big collections. Okay, so I feel like that connection between you and him. I'm just giving an example, as you know, was so high levels, the show has a Colossus in it would would produce a lot more benefit for like the fact that now you don't see your face to face in this. Hey, let me make this clear. Yeah, not face to face. I actually dropped him a number of
messages if I'm not mistaken, on WhatsApp. I can't remember exactly what it was. But I have nothing against him. I really don't good house. I did try to come to a solution with both parties. Yeah. Okay. about taking down the videos. Because we've had this discussion before, right? That it doesn't look good. It really doesn't look good. And it didn't look like it was gonna materialize. So I have anything I tried to arbitrary between both parties to take some of these videos down. And yeah, I think you could be but but I can't remember the exactness of it. I really can't remember the exact ness of it.
He's gonna love you or
not I'll say good things about everyone like you before you in this podcast, right? So and everyone who's looked at the comments in that video and people love this is his stuff. Likewise, our man you know,
I'm trying to keep everyone happy though. Man, you know, a lot of his videos before because he wasn't he wasn't an hour before I was and I saw some of his videos, you know, some you know, he's in the street talking to the people and you know, and I eat and all of these things, and he let us all be very fair here of what a moron is doing. It's very, very rarely used today. Uh, he I don't know anybody who's doing that. I'm telling you. I've had times I learned from his videos here you know, before I came in, I saw some of his videos, those videos and Mashallah some nice techniques here some nice videos. And the way he talked to the youth and we all learn from each other. I've had
brothers who are on Taguchi. Yeah, well, I love him. This is when the penny dropped to me. A brother untag, he's seeing on the front row in my beautiful mom class. Yes. When it comes to any goes
I believe it's like Why? Because I'm on target to be homeless. You see what I'm saying? He's getting through to me. So he's getting like a lot of these brothers into the misdeed. Someone becoming polop they're going out seeking knowledge abroad and everything
is very unprecedent fantastic. If like, you know, if everyone just focuses on what they're really like, if you're a manager of a football team, and someone's a really great strike Haven't we used this example in Saudi Hagen? Yeah. Someone's a really good striker. I mean, someone says, okay, you're a great striker, come here and be a defender.
You know, I mean, it's gonna it's the comparison team here. Yeah, the competitive advantages lost in a sense, right. So we know what I'm good at. We know what she is good at. We know what you're good at. We know what I'm good at. We know what everyone has advantages that everyone knows what I'm good at.
so, so So, so, you know, if we all work in like, you know, that then it works beautifully. a fantastic way and no one's trying to take away from anyone else, right? No one's
like, like, I'm gonna maybe look into this, right. I know. I know. He has a YouTube channel and everything. Yes. I've kind of haven't followed him on what he knows.
line. I don't know much about like icon, you know, say anything bad about him? Yes. With regards to that, like the only
one that I've kind of like really just spoken about too was john Fontaine. Yes. When we did the podcast, and Jonathan Tim's good at right?
Yeah. And he says some good things about him. I can't speak bad about him. I don't know him.
So I don't know much about him is 17 dimensions, right? When can I move in us? Yeah, Jeevan, you're gonna be wide.
That when speaking about others, he has to be of justice and knowledge, knowing ignorance, and unfairness and injustice. Right. Right. As this is the situation of albida. He says that the people individually speak like that. Exactly. So now let's move on to another controversy, which I've been involved in unfortunately, and put my hand in
trade. My own sense of controversy is you also had nothing to do, as far as I know, with the the leaking or of the emails, gas or cotton. And you want to make that clear as well.
Again, first, like I said earlier, I'm making that video you didn't endorse that. Did you? Look again, okay.
I was not consulted before, right. As I mentioned before, as well, I'll say explicitly now, right? I only knew about video. Just maybe like a day or two before it was going out that video is coming out.
I only ended up seeing the video after he was released just like everybody else. Right. And I watch the video twice. Okay, another time things are happening very, very quickly. Very quickly. Right. And with regards to leaking of the emails, yes. Okay.
I didn't even know that was happening. So another question I have here is, did you have anything to do with leaking emails or publicizing the material? Like, like I said before, I was not consulted before. I didn't even know what the content of the video was till it was actually released. Once it was released. I saw it and I watched the video. Okay.
Thinking back on it now. Was it a smart thing to do? Because I heard molars explanation now when he was doing that video of Saturday pump was a smart thing to do. Okay, it was a wise thing to do. Because we know that a lot of doubt
has now hit the people's hearts, right.
And the general principle with regards to spreading doubts and telling your friends about it is what's gonna filter him a lot and I mentioned right he said, Man, send me a baby it fella yeah Kiha Allah Judas, I want you to have him wherever he is of an innovation that let him not relate to those who sit around him. Okay, and let him not hit that people's hearts with it. So look what remember that we are him a lotta dimension see Rama. He says a thorough image metacell if you had a heart attack,
the majority of the scholars of the self and when we use the word self, okay, what we're intending by the three golden generation is not people who are breathing it today. The word has been tarnished. The moment you will use the word self people begin to think that it's referring to a group of people. Okay.
We're speaking about the Sahaba and tabea in the tender Tabby I know the prophet SAW some praise hydrocone familia de niro known from Aladdin, you know, the best of his my generation those who came up those who came after them right? So he says the majority of the self are upon this time.
Okay? Why? He says no mirana and Alibaba Baba Baba, because the hearts are what week and that the shubha the Dow he really snatches a person. It can make it go haywire because of that though it could you see what I'm saying?
So now releasing emails and I've had what a morons justification is I'm really just still trying to as Muslim.
Muslim. Again, like, like I said, Hey, do you agree with this kind of shadow? Oh, um, do you think that the ones who came to this conclusion now?
What I can say is, this is one of my regrets. Right. This is one of the regrets that I have. Sometimes when being involved in very controversial issues and things related to public safety and public fear. ality to Romani Aloma. Okay.
That I may have just like, sought advice from the elderly.
Okay, you have to understand when this video was gone, even if I did have something to say about this video being released, I think we're all in our 20s
of the man at the time, I think was like 20 7am Ron brooder. Yeah, mid 20s.
myself on the same age, so
We're all in our 20s the policy says, you're gonna like this line of poetry in an Amora, either through the Bara, doing a shoe, he tore off his area holla
if there is an issue that only youngsters are pushing through, or that they are carrying, okay,
you're going to find a deficiency in
issue that they took onto themselves, right? So this issue now of making this video that has some very great repercussions, right, which could put the people's heart into doubt. And again, I'm not saying that his justification is wrong, or the person which they had their hand made with regards to releasing this video, I'm not even going into that, at the moment, just thinking about it. Now, the least we can all agree on that. Many scholars should have been, you know, consulted by leaking some of these emails where he explicitly states that having doubts about the preservation of the Quran or whatever, have you? Okay, maybe some of that, oh, that maybe and maybe a lot of that stuff. I mean,
from my comments, subsequent conversations. I'm not gonna say second, I'm context but a more nuanced in that and, and this is why it's very important, because it can be taken out of context as well. It's more important that for someone and this is very, like you mentioned he alluded to is like men
and this is the hider right. So, this is the NUS So, even for me I was thinking you know I had discussion with you about this before if this is the justification of Muslim masala
or let's say even in this case Muslim one versus the US and US being 11 Magellan
Magellan Amana and so on. That you have to keep private information private. If you think that the Muslim hat is is is there but then you have an us so which which goes before i think i think the discussion that he was bringing was revolving around the guy that has a hand over widowhood as a human necessity. Your technical mmmfs at me now spreading some of this information is email is something goes bad. Right. Okay. And the problem is Yeah, Dr. yasir Qadhi later on bring this out subtly, to the people in his lectures, again is something that is problematic. So he was one of the lesser retrieve the issues we don't know where to come up with. And and still it could be in
development. Yeah, I fully understand I fully understand. But then the users justification what he did with Juju, Juju message about the whole zombie thing? Again, he is not something as you just mentioned, I was not happy that he's gonna do this. It's not It's not your understanding of what he thinks it was what the understanding you've got. So good, you could definitely say that you could definitely say that. But as you mentioned, there is no source which speak about what you call a preserving the secrets of the people and even that, and the reason I mentioned earlier about dilemmas, wrote that letter kuno, julienne, manga, Buddha, Buddha, Ash mana, what does it mean? Like
secrets being revealed to the people? Right? One thing that really touched me is this narration I'm going to mention in a moment, but before that the message it was either head death or radziwill. Hadith, so many taffeta.
If somebody you know, tells you something, and then he begins to look, you get indication that this is a secret. Yeah, of course, this isn't a man. It's a trust. But look at this narration and it's the medical the lockdown, right?
And it's medical of the alarm dial and we said,
journey, maybe somebody was
missing somebody. Some came to me while I was playing with kids,
for better than if you had your son. And he sent me to go and do something for me. And I ended up becoming late. My mom was waiting for me and I was late, right? So when I came home, he she asked him muhabba sick. Why was you late? He said bethanien abuso de la vida us lm if you hadn't mentioned Salas and sent me to go and do something. So she asked Maharaja to
what did he ask you to do?
and assume nomatic responded back and he said in herself, this is a secret.
Look at her response. And while I think every single one of us can take really just
inspiration and a lesson from this right? lead to help defend a hidden visitor so let somebody was
okay, this is Nikki rafizi. I can never lead you to feel
even indefinitely now comes in a negative context and Arabic language indicates generality. What do we do as Muslims? Someone told us something the first people that we tell is what the wives
wives know what that is, but we tell the wife, okay, as I said, Nobody.
We might tell our close friends every friend has a friend right? And
every friend has a friend and you know what tends to happen?
Say we're lying, I'm going to tell anyone. And he goes to someone to say, well lying, I'm going to tell anyone, and he goes to someone else I can before you know that secrets turned into Chinese whispers, while the name of Allah is being used in vain. So this is awesome. Okay, this is the author with regards to discussions that happen in privately in private. But that particular issue as to whether this is something that is justified because the lesser of two evils
on this scale, thinking about it in hindsight,
which involves the religion of people to be doubted.
Because at that time, I was told that a series of reputations or clarifications are going to be made with regards to the leaking of the emails, which I didn't, which didn't happen. But now,
when you did that video with a setup, man, I don't know whether he clarified everything or is planning to clarify, so I haven't watched it. I mean, the thing is, like I said, before, I'm spoken, just hiding myself. And and the stuff is that he is constantly reviewing and reading and changing. and gentlemen, I mean, so that's why I think this is very important. If something is to be refuted, publicly, it has to be said publicly. And that's why it's very dangerous for someone to to challenge that which is private, privately, publicly, and vice versa. But I think we agree on this point. And I think at the end of the day, again, it goes back to that same point I mentioned earlier, that
sometimes it's best to take sensitive issues back to the elders, scholars. Every scholar has somebody that he goes back to. Okay, so do you think there was too much kind of wish to have been done by the group members? Yeah, maybe. So I something very powerful that I want to mention with regards to even as I mentioned, right? And I really just wish that in the past that I acted upon it. He said management are some terrific assessor. How beautiful is silence in very sensitive issues. And then he said, For CompTIA had dinner. mimin Alico kalama. Well, I'm not Otto Newman, Alico Sokoto.
How often have we seen people who had destroyed because of what they say with their tongues, but we've never seen anybody who's destroyed himself because he was silent.
So these issues
I just kind of sometimes wish that
I may not have what you call a potluck, partake, partook.
In any of them. And even as of how long this video and I was making, I consulted a lot of the elders
he there's a number of them they they don't agree like they're not with they clearly explicitly like Chicago sama. shabu Stevenson who runs Medina college, I think you've met him before him and other brothers as well. But I sought the permission to maybe mention the names and they said, leave out. Like even they clearly stated that they don't have anything to do with the Tao of Dr. Haytham. They don't agree with his views and the stances that he's taken. While at the same time they said to me, I was oppression man.
That thing that was said about Dr. Haytham and the way it was made to look out. It was it wasn't you know, within soft read, it wasn't a fairness.
You know, so even though they've got nothing to do, they don't have cooperation with Dr. Haytham. And they're still saying this particular thing and this goes back to what I mentioned earlier, if you're a real Sunni a person who's following the truth and upon the guidance of the set of if you're going to refuse somebody has to be with him. And he has to be with fairness and
I am also mentioned what in soften tactilely munez Yeah, I can decide Let me tell you in a sec. Justice is that you weigh your opponents
with the same bowl that you weigh yourself with meaning you treat the people the same way you'd like to be treated.
I mean, that is even more valid isn't it?
Even if it is against yourselves and your parents and
I you know what something that really touched me was
waving at me I was with his enemies.
And I'm gonna pay him his student he mentioned this my dad just had a kid right?
He said that
Allah Baba was happy multimeter
What did to any the US hobby commander Tamia to the IDI also made
some of his own friends mentioned I wish I could treat my friends. The same way that able to Tamia country's enemies are the same way even if a man treats his enemies and his opponents. And look we've not been mentioned right. I'm a very different approach than than me here. Why I read something in
Sierra Nevada moolah saying I wish you can tell me it was a little bit more unlikely.
Yeah, a little bit more commas enemies or something. I don't want to misquote. Yeah. But even Suppan look at this other incident, right? And we're just defending him in a team you're here.
Even a theme says, to shamefully, something or I'm allowed to highlight Yeoman under salotto has always says right. I came to him one day mobis Sharon beam OT, I had the very idi. I came to give him the good news that one of his greatest enemies had just passed away.
Look, when his response was Fenella Ronnie wattana, Tali,
from a subject. He told me off, he showed his unhappiness to me giving him this good news. And they said in 1999, Roger,
liquid he did, he run to his house.
And he said to his family, today, I'm going to take the same place that you'll find that
anything that you guys need for today is like,
it goes, I'm gonna take his place. Anything you guys I'm gonna be mechanically did, can you
see that can be taken? away I go, you say
to your enemies a bit, you know? Yes. Yeah, she know very nicely. So a question I want to personally ask you. Cuz you've brought that up. And we had to be fair, right?
Do you think it was a good idea to bring Dr. Yasser Paddy like with a lot of these doubts that are surrounding him and some of these issues that he's having? Okay. And ask him some of these questions. I think so. Because because now the Christians are pi. Well, I've seen in my own eyes, yeah, commenting on different videos, or missing screenshots do you think was a good idea? I think to be honest, the idea for me to ask him those very specific questions. Were was a bad idea. And because I'll tell you why it's a bad idea, not because there should be any reason why Christians, missionaries, or evangelist is a bad idea, because we were talking about complex issues. And this
sofa had had no idea what we were even trying to communicate. And they did distort what he was saying. And he put out a public statement saying, I don't agree with what you're saying, which is very important. By the way, he did this for nothing. I don't think I saw it, not only put on his books, whatever you're saying, I believe the parents preserved 100%. And, you know, he will lie, he refuted that. But me asking him very specific questions like, if I give you a most half and half son asked me, where would it be exactly what the professor says. Now, I know he has a view, which is that's not the case. That's tradition, traditional view. And it would be a mixture of the, like you
said on the podcast, it would be a mix of a curtain, which really to us is not problematic, right? If he's if he's, if we definitely delic obviously, if he's if you're saying there's more things that he's saying that could be problematic. We have to see that publicly right here doesn't come with that public yet. But that what he said in the podcast? Yeah, was not anything near
what he said on the podcast was nothing called free or, or was just something which was being read, you know, how he was being charitable, right? And because he, like he, like he said, the thing, he's got this kind of academic hat that he puts on, right? So you put the academic hat on, and he's speaking charitably, right? speaking, honestly. And that honesty and that charitable speech, which is actually I've been looking at these mesalands, however, it's been misconstrued by them, as being taken out context by them. And they see as a reason to celebrate, like you said, which is totally Barton false. And so I think from that angle, asking them those very technical specific questions,
was totally for me the wrong thing to do, especially knowing that there could be a potential you could answer in that controversial way. Because he saw to cut you. But remember, when I mentioned earlier, where it's only 30 says, Man, send me a baby daddy, whether he is an innovation?
I think, you know, these doubts and these, the way he's kind of putting
me I'm hearing I'm hearing from you, do you see what I'm saying? So I was asking him, and obviously, what he came with was something which the articulation was misconstrued by these people, because he was speaking, charitably speaking in an academic way. And I think he needs to kind of think about the way he puts things across 100% or something he'll look at 100% sure, we're all looking at the thing is, my my platform that we're speaking from now, everything has to be watertight, because who is going to be the first person that's watching I know people are watching right now that are going to be non Muslims. Not only that, but enemies of Islam. Now, he's, if he's speaking in the
university, right, which is used to do it, as a professor, you're not going to speak in the same way in a political or type way where you're going to speak in a little bit more relaxed way you're going to have a more more nuanced approach. Mrs. Bush, lay US law, let's say for this macam because these people are ready to take anything out of your so I get this point. And I think he's everyone's learning from this but for everyone.
For me, I have to take responsibility for my own my own actions are, I shouldn't have asked the
doctor. Yes, a coffee shop? Yes, I should have asked him a question specifically about something very technical to a lay audience, which I know he has opinions, which,
which I'm not going to say are controversial of I'm going to say our
anti normative in many aspects or some things which are not completely aligned with the traditional view. You see what I mean? So I shouldn't have asked him that question, especially before he hasn't even published anything about it. The classical view, let's call it the view of the Quran, let's say. So. So that's it. And and the fact that i think that i think that I really regret actually asking him because not only regret on the on the on the front that I asked him that question he answered in the way that he did. Yeah, which was charitable and all that, but also because of the the outcome, the way in which it's been manipulated.
The consequences of it. I personally feel like that could have been avoided if I had not asked that question, and I'll take responsibility for that.
Yeah, so on these points, like I always tell brothers this right, and I'm the first person to advise myself something they've not even mentioned. Right. Since we had a bit of CD with two beanie for each man or one at Laguna Danny had said I had a bottle at hand or Oculus me, upon us to just clarify and elaborate indeed, just speaking in a very general way sometimes what does it cause without clarification, what does it cause? It caused us in the minds of the people to become very messed up? Yeah. Also, I mean, so some people can take what you say and distort it. But once again, it's you can't just always shut up every type of enemy comes out you but the most you can do is just
kind of like well when the Muslims realize about this, right? Is that causing this is very important point.
Dr. yasir Qadhi on this point is not a good idea.
Okay, attacking him. His is a fitna attacking his view that he hasn't even publicized is a fitna because it will make them reaffirm their narratives or he's talking about preservation, not ones that he mentioned present, by the way, the word preservation, I don't think once he mentioned, he was talking about hammock rot, that's what he's talking about. So they and they, they've marketed it as preservation of Quran which is different. And what are the Muslims who realizes that okay, if he comes up with a bath with a research, which is against the code, right, whatever, there will be majestic, there will be a space for refutation of that bath in an academic way. If there's something
that people disagree with, but attacking yourself, the only affirms the distorted narratives of the nice Christians and atheists and the Quran says will push me to be allowed that gentleman told me, you know, this is very important. When heroine came back. Our samosa came back and her room was there Yeah, and he said well add to Smith we'll add that will add to Johnny Malcolm Valentin do not make me do not make the enemy open for me, right? In a sense, because you think about as Oh, the way he's looked at in the West, the way he's looked in the West, the guy with the academics, the guy who's seen as the one of the leading figures in the West, right? If you make him look like the he
has got doubts about the Quran, why would you pay? Yeah, is gonna just come down like okay, you like for example, let's just say Shall I focus on who the oma is strongly connected to right? in many different parts of the world, right? If tomorrow when he has a villa, and May Allah azza wa jal save him this sauce having doubt somehow, imagine the repercussion. It would have nothing on the same level of Chanel Rosano. Even he has the kind of impact that he has in the West, but the imagine that repercussion that will happen exactly. You see, I'm saying so I think that we have to be very careful with these muscles. And I think that people from all sides, the Quran is something which
unifies Jamia al mal million.
give me after, right. All of the distorted and they take the ayah to talking about the Philip of Islam, the ones that have been delivered.
I'm talking about the federal Congress lamp, all of them. Yeah, the Mattila this and that
there's a warhead on the national image, my own alley, he said to one of the mottos he like this is the Quran that we are much more LA, we have a schema on this one. So this if we if we're talking about something which everybody, all of the people ashari fit more attentively, all of them all of these firms have agreed upon what the Quran is meant for jackets, I believe, at the beginning to the end of the book. So now these individuals want to make this very important. They want to make it seem as if there's less if you make it run, what is the Quran? Because we can't allow them because for 1000 forgeries, there's no collateral. We know what we know what that we know what they are. We
don't know exactly what specific
notion, but we know what the idea is variation. Yeah, we know all of these things and so to, for them to, to, to come in and speak in that manner, we cannot allow that. And and using one of the DA to whatever we say it looks yes accommodate his status in the West, especially on academic level is, is very high. So in terms of influence, whatever your view on coffee is, or or
whatever your view on him is, he's still listed in if you like the 500 most influential Muslims in the world. He's still got he's done what he's done. So, it doesn't make sense to have a harsh approach. Women can't a canceling approach to women's It doesn't work like this. We have to have a nuanced approach, or wait for the publications and then deal with accordingly. I think this is what we need to do. Would you agree with Yeah, of course. Yeah. So if he basically came out like, I'm just asking you this right, if he came out and some of the things had, you know, problematically Yeah,
you wouldn't have a problem just coming on. Just literally, I would have no problem refuting what it is that he's saying, you know, I'm saying I'm not me personally do enough of those who have said, like, if I if I disagree with a doctor, I'll tell him directly, I'll say, Listen, this, this doesn't make sense what you're saying, Oh, this doesn't make sense. I have no problem with that. Another question I want to ask you is about this kind of canceled culture, people canceling people out because of association guilty by association. So they do a tap dia, maybe from their own volition without the consultation of a scholar. And then they'll say, whoever is associated with this person
who's a motorized themselves a moped, as an innovator. And this just causes division, like unnecessary division. And it's untenable in the oma. Having said this now, what is your stance on this? If, for example, I would if you were to see, if I were to see you, could I see you in a mosque, which is potentially like a Deobandi mosque, or even a bravi Mosque or something? Do you see an issue with doing doing good? In places spaces, which are not? Especially or specifically selfie spaces? Or do you think that there's a more sophisticated approach to this? I think this question can be maybe answered in two parts, right? The first part is
going to the massage it
of those individuals who might not supposedly be upon this on the right.
I wrote an article in 2015.
Okay, and I gave you the worst title possible, the permissibility of going to the massage web that the people of innovation, right. Because what was happening at the time was, there was this group of people who were blasting individuals, we're trying to go to the sauna simply because he went to this message. And that message isn't necessarily even seen as a message that propagates innovation. They might just have tendencies because of culture and where they came back, where they came from back home, right? So the moment a brother goes there, PDFs are being put together, putting his picture and then someone else's picture, a previous speaker came there. And in this method, what they've
done and whatever have you,
it was kind of becoming a bit of a pandemic, right? Okay.
The moment a brother goes to that visit, he's being labeled straightaway.
I put this article together like, as a as a defense for some of our brothers who are being ripped apart. Even scholars, actually, they were being ripped apart because of this particular issue. He went to this mercy that that means that he's associated with them, he's with them.
This article that also my Bravo startup lambaste, Naveed put it together
and we translated some of the UK one of the scholars.
And in this PDF, we had the likes of us even buzz thing that's even permissible to go into a church and give it out there. And you also had
shahabi I met Cody.
Who went to the tijjani. And he gave our in the message and whatever have you to Johnny. Yeah. So you have him doing that you have to remember also software to actually forbidden and jaggery was one of the shelters All right.
He had a similar federal to this, and so many other scholars, I try to keep you as neutral as possible by bringing you know the statements of the scholars
from both sides. Yeah, you had even a shot mobile even had nydj Mobile if you just think about it for a moment.
Northern Yemen was all Shiites. Right? He was by himself. He was like sad, right, who left to Saudi Arabia studying the university took a masters from there
and and he came back to give our sub headline like, we can actually say that
Gemma at Islamia, the University of Medina. They have a great
fallen over the people of Yemen, because they taught him he came back. He took on the methodology of the sinner, right? And it's like giving Dawa and that whole province is Shiite.
So how do I even had stories from some of my machete saying that chef mobile used to be in the masjid? And he would say, yeah, Latina woman, oh, you who believe. And there would only be one person there.
And then one time, that individual came up to the chef, and he said to him, sure, why do you keep saying Yeah, you're Latina man.
Because this is what plural, right? I'm only one person.
Because I'm only by myself. So the chef would go out to their marketplaces, he would be giving power to them. So much so that what happened, many people started becoming Sudanese.
And the congregation started increasing, but the chef would be going out to them even my own shop called shop that I mean had jewelry he used to specifically this is like maybe in the last 20 years he used to go out to the massages this year. And he was speaking about the virtues of aluminium he thought it
he's assuming these are nothing to do with him right.
He was grabbed the mic and as soon as he grabs the mic you can see the congregation getting worked out they want to do something to him. He was saying the reminder inshallah to Allah will be after the sooner prayer on the virtues are leaving me time but it was cooled down a bit I heard is my own is
and he would then start speaking about the virtues of aluminium if it
were not even to be thought of segment you had a header from from Quran Informatica. Whoever negates a hell of a letter from the Quran is a Kaffir. Also, I live in the Parliament and the animal kingdom and the lady made a case of a lobby upon the one who slaughtered by other than Allah as origin. So he's propagating the sun Now, while at the same time he's using aluminium with polyp to speak about the issue they're involved in. You see what I'm saying? So, so much credit came out of it. They they even said, if this is a Hello sooner than Hey, Lola, anytime come, you know.
So, like it this is I don't want to say unanimous agreement from the scholars.
But there is so many statements, so many statements from a scholar saying so the idea that we can even put the article under the video right here.
I wrote this, you're saying, You're saying that you're talking about
people being associated with people have different understandings, and masajid him going there giving a lecture, propagating whatever he needs to probably get on talking about compromising, you know, sometimes what happens, a person comes and he is compromising the innovation, he might even go as far as like acting like it's perfectly fine. So it's like,
when you say a town, I always have different levels, right? And what can you translate when Allah subhanaw taala said, without which I will not agree with taqwa what I will not cooperate in good and piety and do not cooperate and sin evil. And and I always mentioned this, right? That cooperation
can be in a way where sometimes the government,
they need everybody to come over from different groups. They've got issues related to the massage, they need signatures. Okay? This is not a form of cooperation. And this is Eric, you're not compromising? You're not compromising your religion, you're going because that person
is exactly that person who works in the government. He looks at all you guys and you guys are the same. He don't care. Hmm. And all you guys are coming together, you guys need to attend that meeting, you need to sign whatever paper you guys need to sign. And you have to show a united front on that issue. Right.
So that's one form of tower. And there was nothing wrong with that, because there is bigger my facet at stake here. Of course, imagine yoga, massage it if you don't come to this mean, you're going to be closed down, or there's issues related to Nepal, or hijab, or whatever have you and what's being taught in the schools to our youngsters, you're going to attend the high right, I've attended that in the past as well.
But then you have cooperation on a dour level. Is this possible? Hamad? Let's be fair here, right. I'm calling to talk. I'm calling to the center and you've got a guy next to me sitting on the same panel. He's calling to bid on his calling to it's okay for you not to call on to the messiness a lot It was him when you visit his grave. When you go to Medina. He had an opinion on it. Hmm, yeah, these are two opposites that they just don't come together. Right. And this kind of cooperation, of course, is bought and this is now
acting with I'll tell you a story, okay. of my own self.
When I was doing some postgraduate research in so as University, okay, and there was one lecturer that I had, who was lecturing me as a PhD Hold on. I'm not gonna mention his name, but
He's basically my opinion as indeed. Okay, I know this is very harsh statement to make, but is basically he any normal interview was in judgment. He's a heretic. Yeah. And he's been amaka. Phil, is something that takes you out of time. Okay? So he was spouting that on a daily basis, okay? And he was just disguising it in Islamic jargon and stuff like that. Now, was he like a non Muslim? Or was he like a Muslim? He was a Muslim name claiming he has an Islam. Yeah. Okay. Now remember, the cluster we were in was, was was a mix of Muslims or non Muslims. So there's this is a Dao thing, right? In a sense, because when he's now making a thought that all the Muslims agree upon, okay.
It's upon us.
The people in that class who were mixed, do selfies middle class, there were deobandis in a class and they were bred within the class. Yeah, all three were in that class is upon us to show united front so that the non Muslims can see this is something outside of anything that any Muslim has ever said. Does that make sense? So clearly,
in that situation is the kind of town it was mutual. It wasn't even something which we all came together and said, Let's sign a document, or something like that. But it was just that. Yeah, I agree with what he's saying here. Yeah, I agree with and this is a kind of town, okay, in a sense. And what I'm trying to say is that it's always contextual, that the person who is friendly might believe in this too often we never saw Salah he might believe in this just like a CLT unable to handle him in many of the big scholars that right and that's all from us.
But for he says the author, do you mean to us all?
Of Us? Oh, yeah. Mohammed, and no one's kicking him out. But when you say yeah, Mohammed is not always what you call it. A foreign minister. Haha. Yeah. Yeah, fair enough. Fair enough. But Suki Suki, right. It's very clear cut. He actually, you know, cuz sometimes, I was like, it's too hard for us. But what is intended is a tostada. a form that will be rejected maybe or something I'm sure.
Many of the big scholars of Islam because no one's taking the sokkia of his default of Islam. Yeah, Jama Jama. He's written big
contracts. And so what I'm saying Well, I'm not trying to say that let's next Mr. hight. But what I'm saying is that that's the ACA there. It was mutually understood by almost everybody in that class. Just Just to clear up unfortunately, we need to back each other on these because this hoodoo mats are bigger than this. It's actually bigger because you're putting into the Quran into complete disrepute. You're putting the professor on his arm is as was being questioned. All of these things are so this is man is a battle between the memory of like in the clearest and non to really sense the people, the brothers and sisters, because there are Muslims that that argue for his departure
from the blurry background of whatever polemically, they do so within the paradigm. And this is very important. I'm not saying it's justified while we agree, of course. But what I'm saying is that they still cling to Hadith and they still work. They're still to karasuma. You got it, they still have the paradigm. These people.
Yeah, massage therapy are the same, right? In a sense, you could argue the awkward before knuckles, I think people might not understand that word, and it may be a reference. So So we say religion, and sexual references all this time, whereas the progressives, and this one sort of progressive Muslims as a whole, like I can even mention them by name. And Matt and Naomi, I think his name is Amina will do it. And these individuals, they've left the paradigm, okay, and this is in these spaces. And this is a space that I think many people are not aware of the academic space. This is the battle the battle is between the progressives and traditionalists, and they put traditionals all in one box,
like for us to selfies and selfies and deobandis they don't care about that, because Messiah is the author tackling the core of the thing is what they want to change.
They want to change our morals. You see the point and by and large that the elvina Deobandi and the Salafi all three of them have this very similar
practices they'll pray five times a day that when a club they make it a bit specific because you could tell I'm not talking about talking about stuff here. I'm talking about visible practices like a Salas
a hedge? Yeah, I've got hedge so yeah, and even Helen haraam take this muscle away of which would this clear discriminate? No one's gonna no one's gonna lie about anything is that are basically above the surface that Yeah, Farley's house like frogs? Exactly. Yeah. So visible practices. So for them, I mean, do you think that any this progressive Muslims are those who put them in their place? Who the I would call them the colonial masters? They don't. They don't care if you believe in yourself or not.
To be honest, they all they want to do is they change yet? No, I'm not not suggesting this is not an important topic. Okay. I really am not suggesting I will make this very clear. I'm not suggesting that there should not be those debates and those reputation because we're talking about Islam and Cofer here Yeah.
So so this is something which we're not compromising? Well, that's all very clear. Yeah. However, we need to know which Yanni where to where to position, the gun, in the sense that in in the different cases and situations you find yourself in so in this case, I'm talking about my specific experience here in the universities, like when you're questioning the existence of Muhammad Salah, the existence or the lay even existed, the Quran is a messy German, Kedah Look at that. And it's a combination of this. And now we have to Sorry about that, that is actually that that's more of an issue. We have to tackle this first. Because the cafr, who's listening to or the non Muslims
listening to it, is going to think, Well, why do I need to join this religion in the first place? They won't even get into the discussion, phase two of Okay, what's the Hadees say about the Mr. Hostile life and so on.
They don't care about that. And they don't know about that, because their muscles, nothing's gonna be different. So we have to bring them into the fold first, then have discussions. So that's why I feel like when we when we say dalla, we have to be specific, because is there are forms of Dawa, where even like you just said, like, for example, hijab or niqab
or sex education in the schools, do you think that's a selfie, let's come into
something that is lacking any size united front, it does require united front. And so long as someone's someone who is claiming to be a Muslim, they can they can work together of Muslims on it, even Shia and Sunni. Even she also me, there's some issues that the house is for both halal meat, for example, right. And the school you walk into school, for example, is a scam over copper, because he's a shy. And that would be foolish, especially if you're a majority Shia population and you are Sunni. So you're not gonna join the effort of the Shia, for example, who wants to promote halal meat? So what are the sound? Right? And what I'm trying to say is that I think we have common
grounds and what we're discussing is that a town is of different cooperating and cooperation is of different levels. Right. Okay. And I think one thing, we need to be very careful here is a way which
some of this cooperation can be done without a chi, the believing, you know, becoming mixed with one another, and then falsehood and also that which is correct, becoming mixed with one another. Okay. And also there being a level of distinction. Right. So you don't you're saying there's a difference between unity in a sense and, and uniformity in the sense that we're not coming together and said, we want to we want to basically, you know, we want to put a guy to the satisfy, ya know, see what i'm saying that should be telling us that there has to be, of course, as a team is how can I be calling to the son of the Mr. law to sell him? I'm telling the people the message, Solazyme said to
Abdullah is either self professed, alila, when you ask ask Allah, and then the guy next to me, it's like a conference, we're going to talk about aqidah upcoming that don't make
no sense at all. Yeah, but of course, there has to be a level of we have to come together, right. This is happening now in the schools related to sex education, what that means, oh, and the first thing, okay, bring your issues forward. This, right. And then people from different walks of life, they all have to come together and discuss this issue, even if he had a Do you see what I'm saying? Yeah. And,
of course, I
think of this, this this whole, like you were calling it kind of this
phenomenon of attempt the accessibility of Okay, that's the second scenario. The second part of the question, right?
guilty by association, right. Okay. And what tends to be thrown around is that statement that is used by the self. Man Javier de la Navidad to Elena sorbetto. Whoever's bidder is hidden from us and his companion, she does not.
I can't remember not from the top of my mind. But what I can say to you is that a lot of these statements from books like shark Hassan and Mr. Bahari, right.
I actually have somebody who preceded me in saying what I'm going to say right now Shabbat dinner TV, shows whether it became to Birmingham.
And he was asked this question about teaching the books like Sharjah Sunni manbat.
Because in this book, you're going to find some very unrestricted statements that can be totally taken out of context. If this is not being totally reversed, which we've seen happening, right. And you've got same as like, if you see somebody with an innovator, and Hippo be Coulibaly, then associate with him every time of evil. Okay, do not sit with the people of innovation.
Indeed, what this is going to cause is going to cause sickness, your whatever have you. Okay, yes, they are right statements. They are statements that were mentioned by the seller, we don't deny them. But what we need to basically agree with is who's an innovator.
When you paint a picture to the people like we are the safe sex drive, and you have this kind of syndrome of I have a green color, I'm going to agenda which we can maybe even touch on in a moment.
Okay, and a person's begins to think helaas Um, so it and he begins to forget about an amount of sila doing righteous actions, just because you've called yourself a selfie or you've adopted that type of way of thinking that doesn't give you a green card to enter into agenda.
Okay, and these statements to be clear they're not for gender religion, they don't exactly even we were discussing earlier when we were discussing this issue that is discussing sort of get hold of a hobby, right? is the same as a hobby hygiene within a cell phone or telephone is from the telephone via we're lacking.
It's weak Annie, for those who actually say we don't base issue that is discussing books like Rosetta, now they're in other books of associate faculty. Hell, it's not discussion for service, by the way.
No, I mean, the whole of, for example, a
a bola. Yeah, you're right.
But Wahhabi a man berbahasa him a lot. I know even somebody who came. Yeah. My companions. Yeah. So his his code is not
something very interested in your team you mentioned I think is important that I mentioned this here. And he's gonna walk perspective on his book. Look what Damien mentioned, right? And even with Tamia
don't put him in the same bracket as any other scholar who came after him. And I'm talking about those who are breeding here today. Okay.
Even the team as Amanda Debbie said about him, winner who battled babina female team and I was so happy with everything. He has in depth understanding when it comes to knowing the positions of the companions and also tagging
me saying this right.
He said, What can I hear on can hear what can theater mean? A job at the Miami I met was at Manila hora de la suiciding Yalla Masuda Hallo.
Many of the answers that mmm either I'm allowed to Allah gave and those that are like him with regards to these issues that we're speaking about, right? It came as an answer. While the question or when he was asked in this question, the one being asked the question like, for example, Mr. Mohammed, he already knew who was talking about, for example, in layman's terms, right, so the viewer understands, like when I was in, in Yemen, in the mage,
everybody was on the same page there. Everybody was selfie everybody was upon, you know, that way of thinking, right?
It's like a whole village. Imagine like a whole village. Nobody has a different
creedal view than yourself.
So you have a teacher that's sitting on the chair, everybody's attending the class, you sometimes used to have, like 5000 6000 people attending one class of the asset. And then after they've seen because all the,
the, the, the, the duck in the shops have to close down at the time of the lesson.
So to share, please ask the question. Okay. And what why is he being asked about an innovator now that has walked into the match? Everybody knows that this person is an innovator. The chef is being asked a very general question, Chef, what do you say about an individual who sits with the innovator?
Everybody knows what the chef is speaking about what the questioner is speaking about. So a lot of these answers that are found in books like Chanel, a man Burberry, it was the result of an answer being given after a question like this was asked.
So one wants to now read this book is translated him, even the person who might be teaching, he doesn't know Arabic himself. So he's now translating it.
Communicating this to all of these attendees. Some of them are rivers, they walk out of the masjid, on the streets of the UK. Oh, you're an innovator. I can't sit with you. He was giving him cinemas before when in fact, that person is just like a general person. He stays away from his own family members. He stays away from mom and dad, mom. And that has been Mark shahzada has helped me told these stories when it came to when it came to Luton. How a wife boycotted her husband
because of some of these internal salovey type issues, or that which is ascribed back to you see what I'm saying? which is of course a he is insane. It's absolutely insane. And I believe this kind of way has really tarnished The Tao of Silvia in general. Okay, we know when we say selfie it means or Ensenada upon understanding of the early generations collectively not ahead, right. Because they're missing salado Some said title company for melody, melody in Iran on the best of his mind, Jared and those who came after and those who came after them. So
To look at Sophia today, okay, and basically painted with one brush, because you've run into a certain group of brothers will like, again, it's totally unjust.
Am I wrong for saying that? Right? you've run into a bunch of brothers who are rough and tough. And all you ever heard from them was them ripping into the people. Okay, even ripping into their own brothers who might be calling to the same thing, just because they're not calling to Allah under your banner. You've started having a go at them. You know?
It's like, you know, Josie is sitting with us right now. Right?
And seeing what's happening around us in the UK. He mentioned something very powerful. He said, I'm in LBC blazer, and it had been bothering him fever when Paula Bennett Shafi from the deceptions of ablaze upon the people of Hadith.
Is them insulting and criticizing one another? And what are they trying to do here? They're trying to what's the best way to put this?
they rejoice over the downfall of others.
And this is all under the banner he says, You Regina Danica Maharajah Sadie La Jolla. Yeah. And they do this under the banner of Joshua toddy. And we hear about this all the time, right? This is a science that is studied in Hadith, where the scholars of the past like in Mount Buhari management they would criticize the narrator's in order to protect the Sharia. nobody says anything without him. Yeah. So he says, you know, Delica Maharaja Joshua Dean Allah he said I'm no Buddha now has the oma is the Sharia what the scholars of the past they use this field that they use in order to protect the Sharia. So you see I'm saying
so I heard something shift fosun saying that people that do this that these are two separate fields they shouldn't shouldn't impose
any job but it is a field Yeah.
Again, warning the people from innovation again it's something that the religion costs right. But actually, you go to certain gatherings is if they have their own Teddy bear teddy Exactly. Teddy bear teddy bears in it has all the names in there 50 guys have been thrown onto the floor of the being you know thrown under the rug this person is offered this person off to dispose of it and this okay again and let me let me let me make this very clear. Warning is bid honest people I mentioned all the cost
is part of our religion. Yes, you do it with atheists, you do it with others as well, we do as well is part of our religion, right. But it has to be done in a fair way. It has to be done. It has to be no more Arabic language and doesn't know how to indicate or read or write he when he when he said they they do it under the banner of a Jesuit. I did ask myself the question is Who is he looking at what's happening in the local? See what I'm saying is passed away how many 100 years ago? But too many of these brothers maybe even shows up off the millage? Hmm. I mean, we saw even I've had things like even leukemia, and I'm gonna mention that, that shocked me.
It was actually my husband who told me this right? He was in the gathering.
And Mel, our older brother eight, one thing that
he opened my eyes up to is the books.
Because when I first came back from the marriage, I was given a very hard time, very hard time. So much so. And in fact, I can actually relate to what your heart is saying at the beginning of your podcast when he talks about some of the difficulties and issues that he went through. Right, I can fully relate to that. I have seen him at the enemy. This is something we're going to discuss the amount of trouble I've been given in the last four years just being in Medina. So when I left after spending time in in Yemen and I came back, I was given a very hard time. So much so lucky that
I began to think is this what denormalization is, when I ran into some of these brothers, I think the way to retrieve me and this was being used under the banner of SLS here. This is the way of the self as salvia is this. Okay, I said if he is a noble thing, it's not what I think or what you think hammer the one my chef things are your chef thinks it is the way of the three golden generations. You see what I'm saying? They're understanding collectively
until actually met the likes of Chicago, Sam.
And also a bloodbath novena. Later on, I ended up meeting under Manhattan. And the common fish amongst us all is that we was oppressed by the same group of people. And we were made to look that
this what we're doing is against the wave itself, even if you repent or trespass, it's not all of that stuff. You're not good enough. I luckily have followed what happened was, the man hasn't said to me, he open your eyes up to the books of imitate me.
So one thing he said to me was, he was in the house of one of these machines.
Should I mention the chef's name? Just? Maybe I shouldn't. Yeah. Yes, legends, eventually he's one of the prominent of them. Right? And he said, Tim, Chef, look, I have these statements within the team. You're like, Where am I going wrong in the team? You're saying this about boycotting? I know you're selling hygiene, exact wording that he uses, right? Depends. You can't just boycott everybody.
And all the other things that he collected, he took the Russia
Tamia high leverage.
Team, he has gone against the unanimous agreement.
And I found that shocking, I struggled to really believe that. I later on had discussions with some of our machines and damage. I've went to a jury.
Okay, one of the things that I get criticized for being shut out. Hi, Judy. Shaka to me.
I spent four years in Yemen, right. And I talked to him. I was like, sure. Qaeda, Al Qaeda, Al Qaeda. I don't need to discuss now on camera. What exactly I discussed. This is a to meet a student going up the shotgun shell shock saying, What about this? What about this? What about that? How do we deal with these issues of pictures and whatnot that and he's, you know, an alcohol?
Yeah, he's I, I just never after I left, and I started opening my eyes up to even a team, you know, even even Josie Roger,
I just I just like, this doesn't make sense.
This is not a productive way of dealing with problems of the people.
And he is, of course, it's more safer to take the position of the scholars of the past, in a halo manner, and he fits No.
One who's living, he's not free from any fitness. So we have the classical scholars all saying this. It's like even routinely, no Josie now, am they living amongst us today? they've dealt with our problems with how to deal with these issues. Right. I think that's more than sufficient. Okay. Yeah. How would you say now in parallel as a final statement to
about one of the things obviously, you're one of the people who you're very close to Allah Hammond has a very close to Amazon, also Naumann and you're very close to some of these brothers.
And I think they respect and love you. And I think you feel the same way with them as well. Yeah. And more so still working knowledge? Yes, of course. They're just literally finished now. What kind of
what collectively you've come to the conclude festival individually, you came to conclusion that we know the kind of stance you took with that she I incident with? She hasn't had that was an impressive one. And it took three hours. Not a good idea. But maybe we should come down a bit with FDR. What would you think that would sway the other brothers to come to a similar conclusion to you?
Okay, like I mentioned, okay, and insofar as these
sometimes you got to put your emotions that aside, past incidents that aside, and just think about your accuracy. And you mentioned his narration of Mr. Masako.
hmm. Of course, he was the sheriff of the Muslims, right? A man came up to him yes qu la halimun. Our escuela he Allah Shambala Mo. He came to complain about somebody who pressed him. You know him. He said to him, tetra Kunal touch rakuen and halifa. Haney Hakuna paralon wants to know that you're gonna be able to see me, you leave the honey if you don't come to the halifa meaning himself when he's free, but you come to him when he becomes busy with the affairs of the Muslims. You know?
He took a whip. For Navajo bedarra it's like, you know, one thing that you lash people with right?
For her Raja Raja has been a man ended up leaving the place while he was upset.
So I'm going to hottub you know, the type of individual he was, who would always you know, hold themselves to account he's the one that said has gone full circle, and hold yourself to account before that they come to you held to account. he contemplated on what he learned.
And he asked somebody to bring them on again. When he was brought, he gave him the whip goes with me.
And the man said no. taarak to help the law he will.
I've left my right with Allah subhanho wa Taala. And I've left it with you. Almost said no, choose one of the two.
Because Okay, no worries. I'm going to leave with a lot.
And then the man left. Omar was so upset, was so down. He walked into his house, pray to God and then he just burst into tears. And he said this very beautiful statements by himself. He said, Yeah, no more
quinto Avi and fora facula he was very low. And Allah subhanho wa Taala raised you.
Okay, well can Tavon fadak Allah, he was misguided Allah azza wa jal gadgety
fudge Allah Allah as the origin honey fattening Misumi Allah major the Hadith of the Muslim
fecha Corrado yesterday you know because Allah Rajan Bala valenta
A man came to you in order to seek your assistance right instead of helping him
you enter a pressing
matter only Rebecca either potato haha what are you gonna say to load when he comes in tomorrow?
I think we as Muslims forget about the drag just as Muslims we need to have this constant habit of before we go to sleep we just think about everything that we said
I think we forget what we said tomorrow when we said yesterday morning I
like this constant habit of before I go to sleep I just think about I take a moment or two out close my eyes everything that we that I said right?
That which I said about so and so that which I said about this individual because it's all gonna come you know something also that I read in Sierra Nevada and awesome I mentioned is that all sorts of young authority and to defend akuto
he wrote in his will that his books are to be buried.
What can an edema Allah Shia
ketubah an omen.
he regretted some of the things that he said about others instead of his book.
He wrote a whole book I
wrote a whole book
what he said about this person what he said about that person, but look at his humility.
down to earth and humble enough to just admit a mistake.
Okay, I remember what you call it. JOHN asked me this question. What do you believe that you have changed when you went to Medina?
I don't necessarily think I could call it changes just maybe more. So when you see around the scholars
and you see the way they just how can I put this in a very nice way where
they just really just lighten down something that is very huge upon the soul of a person for example, now retracting is not an easy thing.
Right, this thing that I'm doing it I've been thinking about it for so long online for the last four years it was brought to my attention I've been thinking about even more so in the last two years and even more so in the last month.
Yeah, it's not an easy thing. These brothers are very beloved to you and sometimes they say something that might be a negative light, it can be very difficult and I really really really hope Okay, that way blue team you mentioned doesn't happen to us. When he said when he that I wonder if men are doing a Bahama Baba Baba. When the people they start cooperating and sin and evil, they will begin to hate one another.
Okay, and like when you see some of these massage, like, let me give you guys an example. Shetland bet. Charlotte Mason, I bet that my head is 7 million right? Who took the books of the six books of Hadith in like 28 years if I'm not mistaken, but don't quote me on the years.
And he's done when I started teaching the books again. He's maybe in his early 90s or late 80s we just quickly do a google check in you'll find this right?
How many times have I heard him say this?
He is like the scholar of the scholars in the hero.
How many times have I heard him say a lot?
And I don't even study with him. The only time I've studied with him was like I finished the book with him.
This was recently when he taught it before he started teaching them what Baba mnemonic.
How do I know this? Sometimes when I leave my Hello ha I just basically stand there. And I'm listening to the Q and As
I said a lot lower
and sometimes he would even give a fat to it and he retracted later on. And one of the photos they recently gave regards to the Coronavirus about you know how you pray in the harem how the praying when there's a distance between each muscle he
he gave the first one he said this is a no no you can't do this.
And later on when the legendary spoke about it, he retracted his statement. Shahada is
somebody who is very dear to my heart, right.
And I'm just giving you guys a couple of examples of some of these mountains today we're teaching the most honorable place in the world. So you have the cabin, you have a median. So
there was a class
when he was teaching us just off the market.
He was quoting the verses. And he was trying to make a point about tahina sun
or your moon ID for your whole aina Shoraka. He lived in a country that he mentioned that I write.
Then he mentioned the other Ayah that's just on the next page. And I said, Well, your moon ID him for your job tomorrow. Sorry. That's basically the idea, right?
when he mentioned that I, uh,
I've never had it before.
He mentioned in a way that it's not in the Quran.
It wasn't it wasn't.
It wasn't it was. David was making a video.
It was it was very unintentional. he happens to us sometimes. He might misquote an IRA, right.
I'm sitting in the class. I'm actually like, suspecting myself. Did you memorize? Did you even memorize pseudo classes? Like I'm asking myself
and I left out the next lesson after receiving a handler Vladimiro serratos because yesterday, I made a mistake. I was trying to quote an AI by completely misquoted
when you think about it, is it's actually really difficult for them. I don't believe it's difficult for them.
When you come to realization that those who are far greater than you from the look at the look at Abu huraira de la tanana, Abu huraira was not like any other companion when I concluded this, right.
I bought a euro. He was the top when it comes to how did they memorize even have the Iraq what is a nice alpha? When mK sirona v reweighted. Abu hurayrah to live normal. He was attempting to live normal.
After Mr. Harris comes down
after Mr. Harris had it doesn't ring a bell to most people, but you say everybody knows him. Sudanese know him, she is know him as well. And they've got the observations on this great, wonderful companion right
after him and even had is one of them companions that didn't memorize anywhere near what they did.
He came up to me and he said to him, you made a mistake.
I've already used to give the facts were that if the identifizierung goes off, right. And you're in the state of Geneva, whether it was because of relations or whether you were you had the wet dream, you confess that day
and he gave this sweater for a long time.
And then under him, Adam Harris came out he said, I had Ayesha and almost sentiment, both of them saying that.
What you're saying is incorrect. They're basically saying the opposite. Look at his response.
He didn't turn around and say like I am, I am a warrior. I've memorized X amount of a hadith.
Omar Aleta. Did they really say this?
Even home alimony. If that is the case, they are more knowledgeable than me Ferguson's issue, and he retracted his statement.
himself, he suggests and recently retracted some things that he mentioned with regards to so Coronavirus. He talked about 119 Law Reform, right. So, it's important to hear that, you know, we just kind of like accepted, we swallow the ego and we bite our tongues and just,
you know, and what you did basically in the video, as always, it's very highly respectable, you know, and
when you basically said that, you said he wasn't mistaken, is he it takes a month to do that, right? I've done that. I've had I've had so many rejections.
Yes, because it's like, and the other thing is, and I think it's important that we discuss this is, by the way, it disarms people as well like it when you when you've made a mistake, and it's clear for the majority to see at least Yeah. And it's a mistake, you know, I've made many of them. As you as people know, like, I've made videos about my mistakes. Muhammad hijab exposed. I made a couple of videos. I've never watched them. Yeah, I'll send you the link
in Sharla, so but I was gonna say is that
yeah, it's just Assam's people because you want your record to be clean as possible. And you know, you're going to be making mistakes, especially at a young age, you know, you'll be making mistakes. So what's the what's the fuss about? You can just get out of the way and kind of move on. Yeah, it's something that universally happens to everybody. Mr. lobbyism said kulu never said hot it similar to mobile and he said all the time making mistakes. Yeah. Well, I know how buying a Tesla one of the best of those will repent sometimes.
You you seek more knowledge, even in your team, he said
the more you increase the knowledge you become more merciful, right as beautiful
You really tend to think about things more and
and there's no harm. Okay, you make mistakes even Chambal sama system, you're a timer he he made you know, he used to say things like telling everybody that you have to make his right is wise even as soon as he came back and all of them they were on it. But then you kind of like, the more you give Dawa you kind of mature through it. And yeah. And when you when you see some of your elders saying this is, yeah, see what I'm saying? And and things also very, very important that we touched on this is just because I take a view is not fair. That my brother who I may have been with, yeah. Okay. It's painted with the same brush, and vice versa, and vice versa. And obviously, this is exactly
what's happening now. I never made a deal.
And now I've been seeing and I totally understand why a person would think that
and, and even now he just right after this video, people gonna be watching me and you don't agree with everything so and he just, and this is how I've always been with
my brother Emraan after him And likewise, and even yourself, okay. And when we met up in hedge, I'm not your teacher, we've had discussions, right? Have I ever have you ever felt like I'm enforcing my view. And if I don't, if you don't take my view here, I'm gonna declare to be an innovator or anything like that. I've seen that we sat for how many years what two hedges we jumped into. And we sat down, and we talked and we exchanged what you call a advices. And you told me some things that I did. And I took it with a pinch of salt. I thought about it. And it was one of the things that we discussed is all right. And I told you stuff as all. And even with a moron like,
I'm not his teacher.
Okay, even with some of the brothers that I teach, I don't think I'm the type of person who enforces his views. Have this rough and tough would you call it a mentality, if you don't take my view, I'm gonna throw you off, or I'm gonna boycott you or whatever have you right? It's been done to me before somebody said to me, bro, if you don't leave this, I'm gonna boycott you.
Go do whatever you want to do. Like, I never started doing that with you. And at the end of the day, he you know, it's a it's been said to me, so I know how he feels. And I've seen people's relationship, like a teacher student relation get a bit frosty as well, because of the pushy Rafi type of
way that one was trying to get maybe his message across. And I seen it doesn't go down nicely. So my position with everybody is, bro, this is my view,
if you want to take is entirely up to you.
Okay. And, and I just advise a person.
And because of advise them now, does that mean I'm going to boycott them and stop doing that with him? And you're gonna have some people want that? See what I'm saying? Just because you've deferred to so and so they want you to defer. Okay, I've deferred with him. How long boycotting? I don't think that's a productive way to kind of like, really go forward as or why some people have like, ultra motives on everything. And I think that that attitude is, especially I'm going to say especially in the Salafi Muslim community, those who attribute themselves to celeea if they if everyone attribute themselves Sophia had this kind of attitude, you know, well, I think we'd have
more productive and more,
you know, effective as as a Muslim community as a whole. And so I want to thank you for coming on to this podcast, I think it's been extremely productive. And, again, let me just point out before this gets misconstrued as All right, there was issues that go back to a person's he had, yeah, okay. And there's some issues that he that his credo type matters, and we're not discussing this at the moment, we're speaking about other personal issues, he had issues.
A person like wants to maybe do something, I might disagree with him on how he goes to do a particular thing. Just because I don't agree with him as me, I'm gonna boycott him or throw him off. You see, I'm saying and a lot of the time you see that goes back to these issues, that you find people calling this individual innovator or this and that tends to come back to these kind of things. And I think you're a living example of someone who starts off with with a certain kind of approach and and the more reading, the more knowledge the more nuanced the more sophisticated you become and sharing your thoughts. I mean, many of the things you've said people would resonate with
and find really productive so just
and for those watching inshallah you can, we're going to try and put the these podcasts on
one of these streams like iTunes or something like that. We'll see how it goes is the fourth podcast behind hijab podcast in sha Allah, maybe comment and who you'd like to see on a on a future podcast. We're trying to bring people from different backgrounds. Different speciality is different.
experiences so just let us know in sha Allah, which is Salaam Alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh