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Fiqhi Debate – Part 4
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Channel: Hacene Chebbani
Episode Notes
Interest Based Mortgages for buying homes in Western Societies
Episode Transcript
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Salam Alaikum wa rahmatullah wa barakato. Under indo European, amin Salatu. Salam odda should have been more serene, sr, Mohammed water and he was Sufi he may.
inshallah we'll continue with our program tonight about
into interest based home ownership in the West.
And we'll talk about we're still discussing the arguments that were used by
a group of scholars who said that it is permissible to buy
a house through these kinds of conventional mortgages in the West.
And today, we'll deal with the fourth and the fifth premises in sha Allah. The fourth argument that they used here, it's the non obligation to establish the civil, financial and political rulings of the Sharia outside Darul Islam. So basically, they divided all matters in our life into two groups of, you know, issues. So we have the financial, and the political and civil matters that are not under the authority of the Muslim, that are related to the general system. And he's not based on their statement, he is not obliged to establish Sharia rulings in this area in this arena.
And then the second group of matters that are personal matters related to his food, dress, drink, and the methods of marriage, divorce, aid, inheritance, and all, you know, personal matters that are related to his personal life.
So in their statement, they said that the Muslim is not obliged, under the Sharia to establish the civil financial and political rulings of the Sharia and other such matters, which are related to the general system in a society which does not believe in Islam, says this is not within his capability.
And they said, the argument goes that the prohibition of Riba is one of these matters, which are related to the essential nature of the society, and the philosophy of the state and its economic and social orientation.
And he says, rather, the Muslim is required to establish the rulings which concern him personally, such as those who have ritual worship, and I buy that prayers and, and food and drink and dress and so on.
Here we have Chef salasar, we made a number of comments. The first comment is that the generality of the statement might lead or may lead to some consequences that are not praiseworthy.
And this statement may open the door wide for Muslim communities in the west to escape all the rulings that you know, that are related to their civil and financial and political affairs
with the claim that they are not under their authority, if they are not within their capability, it is not within their ability to change these these matters. And of course, we have delene and Allah only burdens or soul with what it can bear locally who law who nevsun illa wasa So, here, if we look at the consequences of this statement, we might reach the end result which says that the matter actually here based on this statement, does not stop the limits of necessities or needs. But the basic principle becomes one of permissibility as long as it is not, you know, outside it is outside the framework of responsibility and duty.
And the question now, what will make traders he said what will make traders and artisans and investors, you know, to avoid Riba in their dealings, or comply with the Sherry rulings on contracts, if we tell them that the principles and conventions of these contracts are not part of Islam are part of this society, we belong to this society, the nature of this society, the philosophy of this state,
and its social and economic orientation.
Of course, you know, the shift believes that those around me who made this fat word denote adopt, they do not adopt these consequences. And we have
a key principle that was discussed by many scholars hamdulillah our scholars are highly disciplined and they have this kind of principles where they give the benefit of doubt.
To those scholars who might adopt a poor efficacy position, that might lead to another conclusion that is not praiseworthy. So, we have something called Les Moonves have met have only said we met him.
So that he said all of them, some of them, they said, it is the opinion majority of scholars and some of them they said it is something that was agreed upon between all scholars, that millesimal might have less of you might have which means the corollary or the consequence, the conclusion that could be derived from a position 50 position is not necessarily the position of that group of scholars, like if they have a key position, and these four key position might lead to something else.
Something that is not pleasant, something that is not that we don't like it.
So, it does not mean necessarily that if we adopted this position, we believe in the consequences, because here the consequences are very dangerous,
because this opinion is based on the fifth opinion in the classical sources, that was adopted by some scholars, that Muslims can deal with
non Sharia or non compliant, actually, the contracts that are not compliant with Sharia in, in a non Muslim land,
invalid contracts that they are allowed to deal with invalid contracts in, in Muslim land. So, when you open this door, what will happen is you tell people then feel free to disobey Allah subhanaw taala Feel free to deal with all invalid contracts, everything becomes Halliwell than before a fact we know that these collars do not believe in these consequences.
And that's why we have this beautiful car the lesson will not have a laser beam either.
The second comment here regarding this argument is that this argue this statement might undermine the efforts of establishing alternatives. And this is really important and it could weaken the determination of many scholars and Muslim leaders in Muslim community to see you know, for other alternatives, halal alternatives, to protect their communities and their identity and help them to remain steadfast on the rulings of Sharia. So, if this idea is adopted, then people will not be there will be nothing to motivate the leaders of our communities or Muslims in general in the West, to look for alternatives, when we tell them it is helpful to buy through houses through these
mortgages.
Furthermore, there is a problem with this statement here, the division between financial and civil and political affairs and individual and personal matters in in this fashion might give rise to many questions. And the first question is, what is the difference between food and dress
and drink an accommodation On what basis the distinguish between the two areas here?
They said these are personal matters. And the Muslim is obliged to establish Sharia rulings regarding these personal matters, food we mentioned food drink and dress and marriage and divorce and some other areas.
But accommodation they included the accommodation with the other public matters because it has to do with Riba and the Riba is related to the general system is related to the philosophy of the state and the economic orientation of the society.
So, it is part of the other part, which is not with does not come under the authority of the Muslim to change. So we have to accept this fact and deal with this issues with without any guilt, feeling of guilt, it's helpful for him to buy.
So now what is the difference between the two areas? On what basis what is the deli
that was used to distinguish between food and dress and drink here, and accommodation on the other side, there is no difference. There are all personal matters buying a house is a personal matters, too.
And no one can force me to take a mortgage from the bank.
So here you know to distinguish between these two areas is something that is not that is not a clear and it's not. It doesn't seem that there is a difference between the two areas.
Another question here, they said, he said is not the legality of wine and big flesh. in this society is part of the philosophy of the state.
And the nature of this society
using wine and producing wine and drinking wine and drinking a pork is part of their culture to argue to say this is a part of a public matter, and it's not under the authority of the Muslim to change so he can deal with these things.
So what his conclusion here the conclusion, it's a matter of, it's not a matter of living in Muslim land or non Muslim land is a matter of ability and capability
for de la, Hamas, Fatah to fear Allah as much as you can. All these matters, whether personal or private, or public, related to the general system or related to his personal life, are all part of Sharia. A Muslim is supposed to fit our last panel data regarding all these matters. But here, it's a matter of ability and capability, he's able to establish some sharing rulings, then he should pour it's a must it's an obligation upon him as a Muslim to establish this Sharia ruling. If he is not, then he has to look for his own a personal level for Hillel alternatives.
If he doesn't, if he doesn't find if he cannot establish his Deen, then he has to leave the land. If he cannot establish his Deen there are matters that you cannot compromise with, like the establishment of prayer and he then Juma and so on.
But there are matters that you have the freedom to deal with them or refuse to deal with them, like missing them buying a house from from a bank.
The third comment regarding this statement here or this argument is that the real situation actually could be sometimes reversed with respect to personal and public matters.
So they said that public matters are not under his authority, and he cannot change them.
And among these public matters is the methods of finance and Riba that are related to the general system, financial system with the society.
And he said, but the other personal matters are under his authority. And he can is to and he's supposed to establish any rulings regarding these matters. But he mentioned, for example, marriage, and divorce and some other matters. But the matter could be reversed actually could be the opposite. But here as a matter of fact, and we know for a fact that there are many Muslims who are not able to establish even the rulings of divorce and marriage in this society, he cannot a Muslim cannot openly declare his second marriage in this society, if he's married with a second wife.
Sometimes he cannot divorce his wife based on Sherry rulings, if he is forced to deal with the court.
Sometimes he is deny the custody of his children by the order of the court. And these are personal matters.
But when it comes to business, on the other hand, he's free to establish any investment he wants, any company he wants, and no one can force him to run his business in any other way that isn't any any other way that is not pleasing to Him.
And we have the freedom actually, many minorities, here in this in this society, have the freedom to establish their credit banks, credit unions, and establish their banks if they want, and their financial institutions. So sometimes the method could be, could be reversed the opposite. There are some public methods that you can you can, you can actually establish them and deal with them. If you want. If Muslims want to establish a political party, no one can tell them you are not allowed to have resisted this political party and participate in the political life and they have the freedom to do that. And he can send you can send some MPs to the parliament.
No one can tell them you don't have the right to do that.
For him, so the conclusion here the issue in these societies is not an issue as I said, If personal matters versus personal, or public matters, when they are all sherea
sherea philosophy panel to Allah is a comprehensive way of life. Men has shamel
and Muslims are supposed to obey laws panatela in all spheres of their life with a political economic will a social in all spheres of their life, but it's a matter of ability if they are able to or not
If you are able if you do it you are not able to live alone if it allows her and you take care of your own personal affairs, Willa hota, Allah Allah and as well as Tara said Fatah, Masato
and fearless panna with Allah as much as you can.
Now talking about the the fifth premise here, we mentioned the overriding benefits accruing from Riba based home ownership. There, there are many benefits. And in their statement, they made the statement here. We'll read the
statement the statement of the European Council,
the European Council of federal research, this ad using this fifth argument to this fifth premise.
They said that permitting home ownership in this way will meet the general need of the Muslim community, living as minorities outside Dar Al Islam
is in page 4454. This includes protection of their religion and Islamic personality, improvement of the Muslims living conditions, and liberation from the economic shackles upon them, that they will be able to fulfill the obligation of Dawa and take part in building the society at large such that their level will rise, they will then deserve to be called the best nation brought forth to for mankind, and will become a radiant image of Islam in front of the non Muslims.
So here, this is their statement. And we have a couple Lucia have made many couple of comments regarding this statement.
First of all, the difference between Islamic and non Islamic and the standings of benefits, what is the benefit in our Sharia. It's called Muslim girl. And we have three types of masala we have a Muslim tabara, Muslim matsubara, that was Muslim that was considered by Sharia. Islam believes that this is a real benefit. And it has to be and it's supported by the deen by the proofs of Sharia, by the text of Sharia. And it is Muslims are supposed to, you know, take advantage of this benefit. Number one merkabah. And the second one will be the one that was neglected or rejected by sherea. Yes, it is a benefit. It could be a financial benefit. It could be any type of benefit, but it was
neglected. It was cancelled by the Sherry it says like I'll give you an example of a camera last pantalla said that wine drinking there are some benefits that are linked to wine drinking, but they're not considered in Sharia, they are rejected.
And the third Musleh is called musclehead. Mozilla, Mozilla is unrestricted, you can translate it as unrestricted. We don't have any proof in ceria that supports this benefit Muslim or rejects this Muslim. So and Muslim ha is.
Is menza is like mantha also in Arabic, and it is the opposite of Masada. maceda in Arabic is corruption or harm. In the Islamic terminology Muslim How was defined they have a clear aroma have a clear definition for Muslim ha they said is the safeguarding of the objectives of Sharia mikaze the Sharia by attaining the public benefit of preventing corruptions from affecting them. This is the definition of Muslim in effect and the people of knowledge agreed that the objectives of Sharia or five any mikaze to Sharia Hamza his Deen we have the knifes we have the laptop, we have the necessary we have the men. So the first Muslim in our Deen is the protection of the deen itself.
Protection of religion. And that's why Allah subhanaw taala has allowed and has encouraged Muslims to expose their life to dangers
and to sacrifice their blood sometimes for the sake of protecting the dino philosophy.
So the highest Muslim in our religion is the protection of the deen itself. And that's why we're supposed sometimes to leave our hometown leave our land for the sake of protecting our Deen and protecting your religion and this is what all most of the prophets and messengers did. Mohammed Salim had to leave mecca for the sake of supporting his Deen and protecting his Deen and he went to Medina and where he was able to establish a Muslim society in Medina, Ibrahim Ali Salam had to leave his land era with his nephew, Ali, salaam and Sora and he went to Palestine.
established himself there and establishes their will in that land.
The second Musleh is or objective of Sharia next to protection of human life
and the third one is protection of the intellectual apple. That's why one drinking is haram and taking drunks, drugs is haram. So for the purpose of protecting the apple, the intellect, this is a name of Allah subhanaw taala This was given to you as a Muslim as a human being and if you didn't spoil it, she's protected and take care of it. And that's why we have these Sharia rulings pertaining this muscle how protection of the intellect and we have protection of progeny and ness and have the nested that's why daddy the nest or you know, making a decision not to have children is not permissible unless there are some excuses unless we have some excuses, valid excuses. So
protection of progeny or a nestled is part of these Sharia objectives and the set the last one is protection of wealth. And that's why if someone is coming to your house, to take your wealth, you are allowed to fight with him. And if you die in the process, you are a Shaheed
You are a Shahid, you are defending your wealth because you shouldn't allow him to take your money came in coming to your house, should fight with him, stop him try to stop him and if you die in the process, as I said, You are you become a Shaheed in the sight of Allah subhana wa. They also the people of knowledge also agreed on the following they said the understanding of Muslim law is to be referred
to the guidance of Sharia, and not merely to the desires and intellects of men of humans. So it's not I don't have the right to say this is Muslim, and this is Masada.
This criteria has to be taken from the Sharia for loss of Hannah was an analyst panel with Allah has criticized those who in the Quran those who follow their desires, woman algo lumen many Tara howhow is it hidden min Allah and who is more astray than one who follows his desires without guidance from Allah subhana wa Tada This is in sort of two passes. And the second rule regarding this concept of benefits and harms, we said the benefit and Harmon cheriya and not limited
to this world. They're not limited to this world alone, but they extend to include this world and here after you might lose money in the studio, but you will enjoy
your life on the day of judgment and this is a muscle how you lost some money here.
You know you are exposed your wealth to some loss, but you earn the pleasure of Allah subhanho wa Taala and this is a Muslim in itself and it is a greater muscle actually.
And they said there are also the benefit is not contained within material pleasure only. But we have also spiritual pleasure.
Sometimes the Muslim is supposed to give up some material pleasure for the sake of earning some spiritual pleasure and to earn the happiness from the Day of Judgment.
And he said also the benefit of one's religion is a basis of all the other benefits. So when we if we talk about priorities, if we have to classify those benefits, or those objectives we start always with the protection of the deen so you do something but it will harm your deen then you should stop doing it. Because you are supposed to protect your deen protect your relationship with Allah subhanho wa
Taala the second comment he said the benefits are not to be considered in face of clear text. So if we have a muscle hammer Salah that was not mentioned in the Quran and the Sunnah, there is no new ruling that was mentioned regarding specific Muslim in the Quran and the Sunnah.
But we have a text that says this is haram actually this is malatya we shouldn't call it more Salah Malachi rejected by by by the Quran for example, our case here dealing with Riba living with river so the the people of knowledge they are agreed that any benefit which appears in conflict with a reveal tax is an invalid benefit which has no consideration in Sharia. For example, we have some economists, the mentioned the necessity of dealing with Riba to promote or encourage, among other investments. There are Muslim actually economists who said You know, it is Aurora now. It becomes a
Aurora now it became of the Aurora to deal with Reba to encourage to promote a new model and investments.
Some secular governments believe that it is necessary to produce and sell wine to encourage what tourism for example, in some Muslim countries, Allah subhanaw taala as I told you, he has mentioned some benefits that are linked to gambling and why drinking historical baccara aluna can elaborate on Mason kullfi Hema if men can be women are fairly natural if mahoma akamaru mean nothing Hema. So Allah subhanaw taala here saying in saltwater, they asked you about wine and gambling, say in them is a great sin and yet they have some benefits for people. So Allah subhanaw taala admitted that they have some benefit when someone is selling any alcohol and wine is making money right. And in
itself, it is a benefit. It could be a curse allow Harlem in a different way. But you know, at the time of Jay Hillier during the pre Islamic era, while drinking was linked with hospitality and generosity, and treating once guests in the best way in and so on. So, Allah subhanaw taala mentioned there are some benefits, but their sin is greater than their benefits. And one this sin is greater than this matter becomes becomes Hara, Willow to Allah alum and this is a clear case, where you know, some benefits are there are available, but the sin is greater. And therefore, Allah subhanaw taala would make these things Haram. The third comment, there are some exaggeration or
exaggerated benefits of home ownership. And this is something that everyone has to think has to think about it. You know, it was mentioned that a rented home does not fulfill all the needs of a Muslim, this is debatable.
We know people who are renting houses have been renting houses for years for 1520 years.
And their needs are fulfilled. I mean, they might face some difficulties sometimes when moving from one house to another. But it's not the end of the world.
It's not something extremely difficult. It's easy for many of them to find another house, they might spend some time looking for another house, and then they will find a house. So it's not a big problem that we will make something like Riba makes it hard for that will justify buying house through these kinds of mortgages.
So this is very debatable, as I said, and the only difference between a rented home and owned home is the flexibility of the usage. And if you have a big family, then it's easy for you to accommodate your big family in the house that you own. But if you have a big family, it might be difficult for you to find a house to rent but at the end you'll find a house Well honestly depends on the size of your family. If it is very big then then
then when alternatives should be.
You know, the person could look at other alternatives were allowed to Allah.
We mentioned also the choosing a home near a mosque or a school as you know, in when Muslims decide to buy these their houses, we might choose to buy a house beside the masjid or beside an Islamic school.
It's it becomes very convenient for them. But chef is saying you have Salah so is saying that there is no difference in when it comes to this particular point. There is no difference between a rented home and an owned house. Why? Because rented homes are scattered everywhere and they are available everywhere.
You go to any message or any Islamic school, and then you will find a rented house to rent in that area. And you might decide to rent a house beside the masjid or beside an Islamic school. And it's not something difficult to achieve. So in this point, it doesn't seem there is any difference between rented houses and and and home for homes for sale. The other issue the in this declaration dimensioned also the possibility of Muslims living close together and creating a small Islamic Society within the wider society. And this also applies to rented homes and own houses.
You know, forming a community if Muslims are really serious about it.
We don't see it happening now. I mean, we know we don't know that the people who are buying now have actually coordinated between each other and decided to buy houses in the same area and form this Muslim community that we are talking about. It is found in the declaration, but it is far from reality he's not there. But even if we're talking about renting homes, then it is possible it is possible for a group of Muslim to decide to rent in the same area and then build a small Muslim society in that area around the message for example, or an Islamic school
as for improving living conditions, improving the living conditions of Muslims by making some money, because when you buy a house and you paid after 25 years, it is an investment. So it is a saving. So here he said that no difference appears between renting and owning except after 25 years or 20 years, after you pay all the installments. Then here the difference the difference appears before that there is no difference.
And he is still paying that monthly payment or monthly installments, it could be less than then the rental fees are low.
But you will not feel secure and safe until you pay all the installments.
And in his opinion, it seems that there is no link and I agree with him then is rolling between home ownership and deserving to be called the best nation. Because a lot of times when he talked about when Allah subhanaw taala talked about the best nation come to hire Metin afrasia cleanness morona will maruthi roofie within her own annual monka una villa. So you were the best nation brought forth from mankind you enjoying what is good forbid evil. And you believe in Allah subhana wa adad
right. So, he is home ownership regarding this, in this course, we mentioned something that the Muslim will become free from economic shackles and the burden of you know, some financial issues. So he will be free, he will have more time to make down and become a better Muslim and he will be involved in the hour, he will have a good life then he will become a good role model or good example to the other non Muslims living in the same society. Do you believe in this? Do you see this happening? Those who own houses who pay their houses now they have time free time to make Tao? Do you see it happening? So it is there in the declaration.
But it has no true truth. In reality it has it's not there. And actually if someone says it's the opposite if someone says I need to stay from river, so I to be able, in order for me to be to deserve this honor of being included among this community of you know that was described as the best nation.
Hydra Amati nothingness. So actually we should do it by our motto of our Allah subhanho wa Taala for really enjoying what is good, inviting people to what is good to stay away from river to obey Allah Subhana Allah to Allah stay away from disobedience and forbid evil and this is evil. Riba is a form of evil it's an evil is a sin and have faith in Allah subhanho wa Taala.
The last issue that they mentioned the feeling of security,
to some degree to some to certain extent, it is true after the home is paid,
it is completely paid off. You paid all your installments then you might have this feeling of security will allow you to add an item security in this life in this life, what about Allah Allah, but they said based on their studies in the United State, they said the average stay of home owners in their houses is seven years the average stay
and it is sold after that for whatever reason, different factors different reasons. Sometimes
job circumstances change in job circumstances. Sometimes the person is not able to pay for whatever reason, but they said this is the average and they have to sell it the house after that. And after the sell it whatever. Most of the people will incur some losses because the most of the amount that is paid in the early during the early years is going it goes to the payment of the interest
First Aid does not go to the payment of the capital or the principle
of that, you know, the price, it goes to the payment of the interest. So based on these facts, there is no security and as a general principle in our Deen there is no security with disobedience of Allah subhana wa. When a Muslim disobeys, disobeys Allah subhanho wa Taala and should not feel secure.
When you obey Allah subhanho wa Taala. When you have faith in Him, then you should feel this you should have this sense of security these feelings of security will allow to add.
Now if you have something to say,
before we
will talk about some other issues, if you have a question.
I heard
that they said the name of the retailer that gets a percentage which is 0.02 or something like this, if it shows up in your account, it's entirely up.
We have talked about this issue before. We said that a in Islam there is no difference between the smaller brother is saying if some people are saying if there is small amount of Riba interest that comes to your account, is it valid or not? Is there any difference between a small amount and a big amount?
We have talked about this issue before and we said in Islam, there is no difference between small or big account, big amount of Riba. All of them are Haram. in this society, if they have a law or regulation that says interest is permissible, as long as it does not exceed a particular or specific number. If it exceeds that number, it becomes usually which is illegal.
So the person who practices usually in this society, that means charging
a bigger amount of interest, he might be sued, he might be sued and taken to court and he might be sent to jail or I mean it's a crime.
But the the key by changing this amount of interest.
Yeah, sometimes it was it is 19% 2025 depends on in which province you live, you live and under which you're here is this can Yeah, there are differences between provinces and places without Allah.
So basically, there is in Islam, there is no difference between a small amount and, and a bigger amount. And there is a rule, when you study the rulings of Islamic Finance, we find that there is zero tolerance to Riba in Islam. But there is some tolerance to towards horror, which is uncertainty.
Johanna when you buy something and you don't have enough information about that object, or you make a deal and you don't have enough information? Because as a basic principle, when you buy something when you pay for something, you have to have full information about what you're buying.
Okay, so Johanna is one of the problems could be one of the problems in a contract of sale, which is uncertainty. And it's called the interior. Now Rasul Allah is allowed to send him a little Harun in Sahih Muslim but there is some tolerance to order in Sharia method and if you are buying carrots, you are a farmer or someone who sells fruits and vegetables and you go to a farmer and you want to buy potatoes or or carrots that are still in the underground.
It is enough for you to look at few samples to get an idea about the quality of this product by itself. It is a horror because he didn't look at every every carrot there. He didn't look at everything. They but you are buying because you got an idea about the quality of this product. of you buying a car for example, you look at the mileage you look at the model of the car, look at the tires you look at the try the car, you listen to the sounds of the engine, but you are not sure you don't know about every parts of the engine right you are not a mechanic. So there is some horror there. There is some uncertainty, but you still it's Halloween
Still, it's helpful for you to make this deal the sale and buy this car. So there is a time actually order is divided into three types excessive horror, and medium of horror and
a small amount of horror, small amount of water is accepted all the time. medium is controversial excessive order is not accepted in Sharia and insurance, for example, is a form of an excessive order. But because we don't have a choice, we're forced to deal with it, then we deal with it.
So, if any other question before we Yes.
How do you please the difference of opinion
sometimes problems or how to how to pay the difference of opinion.
See the problem is not the average.
Yeah, I have
one brother, he said the one time when brother was attending helicon he was talking about the differences between the old ama and sometimes he becomes a become a becomes confused about what to choose and what to follow. So one brother, he said one time
a Muslim brother was attending a halaqaat in a Muslim country in an Arab Muslim country. And the chef was explaining the ruling of smoking
is so summertime I believe it's haram because the because of the evidences that are compelling about, you know, smoking being the cause of lung cancer and many major diseases, and some merola they carry the old fatwa that says it's only macro is disliked.
So this caller was explaining he started explaining to them the history of tobacco in the Muslim world, it came through from Europe. And it went to Turkey in the 16th century and the Hanafi scholars at the time, the official must have been Turkey was the Hanafi madhhab they looked at it and they said it's it has a bad smell like garlic. So they did analogy Ts and he said it should have the ruling of garlic because it's macro to eat garlic and come to the mustard. And that's why they said it's macro. And it became a very common and very this federal law was adopted by the masses in the Muslim world until until you know
doctors made their research and they found that smoking is is the cause of the main cause of many major diseases and the aroma now have no doubt most of the time I have no doubt that smoking is haram.
So he was explaining and then the the brothers said, You know what? You go you scholars and mushy if you agree between yourselves, and then you come and tell us we'll keep smoking until you agree
to keep smoking until you make an agreement and then we will see what you can do. So coming back to your question.
The answer the basic answers to this question when someone is confused
between different opinions. The earlier Maddie said if someone is not an A scholar and is not a student of knowledge, like he is not he doesn't have the ability to look into proofs sherea texts and come up with the conclusion about different opinions and disagreement between scholars. Then his he had his to go and ask someone ask the people of knowledge because this was the last Hanna's Allah said in the Quran for Salah decree in quantum Los Alamos ask the people have thicker knowledge, if you didn't know. So this is your obligation. You asked a person whom you trust his knowledge and his taqwa. So two conditions. He said the person you know that he feels the last panel at Allah and he's
qualified to give fatwa.
If you if you do fetch to a shopping you will be you'd be confused.
But if you have if you look for these people have flash and you are able to recognize them or recognize the sources of knowledge. If you are you reach that level. So feel good about this source of knowledge this website or this scholars or these books, whether you can take photos from them and consult them and but if you do photo shopping you will be
confused, if you look for what, what fulfill your desires, you keep asking here and there. But then in the question of buying homes
based on mortgages, whenever we get this caller coming from overseas, he will get this question. Even though we did the hell outta here. We did the halaqa here and many people listen to this halaqa. And they understood that it is haram on our enemies they didn't agree with it allowed him with what he said it's up to them. But But even if we get another scholar coming from a different country to do a halaqa here, I'm sure you will get some questions regarding this issue. Because the this is what happened to, you know, indifferent halaqaat. And actually, these collars v realized that these brothers who are asking they're looking for, for another fatwa that says it's helpful, go
ahead and do it, even though they knew about these fatalities that are available there in the community, but they are looking for a second opinion that will make it easy for them to buy here and I don't want you the reason I did this program. I wanted to explain why it's haram if we say it's Haram, because all the arguments used by these two conferences are arguments.
There is no delille here there is no iron in the Quran that says go ahead and do it. It's Helen, or a hadith. Blacks, the opposite is true all the air and I had ether clearly against this photo. So as a Muslim here, if you uphold the book of Allah subhanho wa Taala as the main source of guidance, as soon as His Messenger Sasselov as the main source, the second main of guidance, then it will be easy for you to reach a conclusion regarding this matter, for example here because collars are not infallible.
We commit mistakes. And we know that there are people who are better than these scholars like aroma haka, rhodiola and sahabas, who missed some knowledge, they missed some knowledge and thought he didn't know about some ahaadeeth and he said when he knew about them, after some losses and passed away and he got this hadith from Sahaba. He said it was busy with my with doing business in the marketplace. He was great scholar but as as an act of humbleness, you know, he was trying to humble himself in front of Allah subhanaw taala so said, You know, I was busy with my business activities in the markets. That's why I missed those ahaadeeth
But nevertheless, what is the point is that he missed this Howdy, Lima Malik. He said he was asked about question one time, and he said kulu Hello, Mr. Malik. He was sitting down in the mosquito for so long as me beside the grave of Rasulullah Sal, he said kulu Haldeman, Callen hora Illa Sahaba del cobre Pasha, Illa Cabrera su de la Sol. He says, everyone, the opinion of everyone could be accepted or rejected. the opinion of everyone could be accepted or rejected except, except he said the owner was the companion of this grave. Who is Muhammad sallallahu alayhi wa sallam. So
you your obligation is to look for people who have knowledge and Tahoe, and when you take knowledge from them, will allow you to add on.
But the general answer is knowledge increase, try to increase your knowledge, read some books, get an idea about what our last caller wants you to do as a Muslim, but also Lhasa Selim wants you to do as a Muslim. And then things will become easy or louder. Allah, Allah, and there are many people who did things in this society. And they came to me will lie I met many brothers and say, I don't feel good about it. Well, I know it's harder.
He said, you know, we did it based on a federal law.
But he said, I sat down with my wife, we had a discussion about it. And we said there is no way this could be held by themselves. They didn't listen to any program. Then because this is the fitrah
This is the fitrah Allah subhanaw taala created some goodness in your heart as a Muslim, you know, in general, the difference between what is wrong and what is right. And we do think sometimes, but we don't feel good about them. We know that it is either it's haram or a gray area, that it's better for us to to be out of to leave this zone of doubt. You know what I mean? Oh Chabot had allowed to
use Go ahead.
Interest now to buy that. Then, when you sign the papers, some already missed payments, realize that
Yeah, the one with the brother is asking about buying cars from from dealers.
And he said, some of them, they say that they have zero interest.
There are, you know, there is a basic rule that we need to understand when it comes to, you know, getting financing from a car dealer, or from any financial institution.
And this inshallah, this rule will make our life easy.
If you know that there is a third party,
so sorry, third party who is financing the deal.
And you are making a deal with a car dealer, and there is a third party that has nothing to do with a car. It's a financing company, it's a bank, which is financing the deal,
then most likely, there is interest involved in it.
Because this financing company, or this bank will not give money for the sake of Allah will not do it. It's impossible. Because this is their business, they make money out of money. They have no other business. We don't deal with cars, they don't deal with homes, they don't deal with commodities, they deal with their main business is to make money out of money, they lend money and the charged interest. Now the dealer is not charging you interest. This is something that I recently paid attention to if there is a third party. So the first question that you ask a car dealer told me please if there is a third party who is financing the deal,
if he tells you that there is a third party, sometimes it's clear, he will be charging you interest you will be paying back these financing company with an interest with an increase. If you are not paying them you're paying the the dealer. The deal with this deal when he says zero financing. It's called something called by a bit taxied in Sharia
a sale that is based on
you know, payment in installments through installments. This is Hillel, even if there is an increase,
can I tell you my Senate, if you buy this car and you paid cash, you take it for 10,000. But if you pay it within five years, we will charge you 12,000. And that's it. This is Helen if there is no third party because the problem is if there is a third party most likely, most likely the third party has paid the whole amount. So the dealer has he got this 10,000 and he charged you 2000
in the form, in principle, it's Helen but if there is a third party, this third party is charging him interest on that 10,000 he has paid him the 10,000 cash charging him maybe 1000 and then the dealer will charge you 2000 so he will give 1000 to the third party financing company or the bank and then he will keep 1000 for himself as a profit as an extra money over the the main principle or the original price. So if there is a third party there is a problem. Even if he tell you zero financing. This is the first question you deal with. If there is no third party they tell you to yota Ola, GM, we have our own financing department. We don't get any financing from any bank, we
don't deal with any financial company. We are giving you financing. And we tell you zero financing. That means this is the car you're gonna pay only 14,000 there is an increase, but you agreed on the amount you're gonna pay it for five years.
Now, this is the main problem, the major problem there is no loan no interest based loan coming from third party we got rid of this problem. The second problem that will stay between you and the dealer is the late fees. If you are late, so he had to look at the the the contract there are late fees.
In principle This is Hara. This is not
Sharia compliance contract.
But if you can get rid of it and there are brothers who told me I negotiated with the company and the remove this condition from the contract, which is good handling if you can do that. That would be beautiful. And then your contract will be in sha Allah Allah. If you can't, if you don't need the car then there is no need for you. There is no necessity for you to get this car.
nucar then there is no need for you to get to go for this option. Because this is this condition of paying late fees makes the contract non Sharia compliant.
Yeah Anisha Reba, we after the river we he not supposed to sign it's like a credit card if you don't need it and not supposed to take it.
But unless there is a necessity you need it, then you can, but you try to your best to avoid this penalty or these late fees. It's not like the origin of interest that is charged from day one. It's kind of different. But late fees are not accepted in Sharia late fees, and I believe personally believe a low dollar item, it is a bigger problem that the rule ama here in North America have to deal with, because it is found everywhere in every contract. Even the contracts that we made make with enmax and atco. And all these
suppliers of utilities, all of them they charged this penalty on these late fees. So it is something that is found everywhere. They will never have to deal with this issue and discuss this issue and deal with it and study it and do some research about it a lot.
But basically, these are the issues related to this
to this kind of contract.
Yeah. Yeah, the the Muslim companies, I'm sorry, English with
Muslim companies who are dealing with this issue or dealing with this
problem.
The many of them, actually, banks are divided into two three groups. Some of them, they said it is a necessity and we have to have this
condition there in the contract to motivate people or to force people to pay on time. Some of them they said no, this is haram, we're not going to include this chart. This condition should be removed from our contracts. A third group of Islamic banks or Islamic institution. They said that we are not going to take it, we are going to put it there in the contract. We are going to take it from people but not use it. We don't include it in our money, we will create a charity department
within the company and this money will go to this charity department it will be given to those who are in need.
And the reason they want to encourage Muslims to pay on time, it was decided if we leave it without any penalty without any stipulated condition people will take advantage of our kindness and they will not pay on time. And there is nothing we can do to them.
So but by by default, these conditions are not accepted in Syria and not permissible in Syria. So these are wish they had that is our newly invented no arrangements by by some Islamic banks and Islamic
financial institutions will loudhailer
which one
I have a mixed feeling
Hello Adam. I couldn't reach a conclusion about it alone.
spend on credit card.
We're not supposed to have credit cards unless there is a need. There is a
pressing need. Not necessity is a pressing need if you need it, I mean you can you're not going to die if you don't have credit card. But we are not paying any interest. Yeah.
This what I'm saying when you sign a contract with a credit card credit card company, the condition there that says that if you are late you pay some interest is not accepted is not cherry AI compliant. So the contract becomes non Sharia compliant. As a Muslim you're not supposed to sign this contract. This is the opinion of majority of scholars. Some scholars here in the West they said if you need this cart, he needed you really need it, you might use it. There are some alternatives now and I talked before about some alternatives provided by V Mo. They have a V mo prepaid travel credit card. It has all the features of credit card and it doesn't charge interest but someone said
They have a limit of $500. Allah, Allah, a brother Here comes here to this place, he showed me the cart. He said, I got it from them. Another brother, he said they went to them. And they gave him only a limit of $500 you have to load this card you have to be it's your money. It's like a debit. But it's not a debit. When you go to a
hotel, or you rent a car, it will be accepted as a credit card.
So if we have this Hello, alternative, we shouldn't use the other non halon cards.
consignment
he didn't pay for. But it depends. If you are acting, you're acting as an agent
or a store owner and you've received goods and you're looking to sell it and you've made an agreement with the person that you're going to share the profits.
Could you give me more information about it in
consignment shops?
Yeah, you bring your commodities or your whatever you want to sell. Okay.
Make an agreement with him. Do you agree on the price?
And then you give him you give him the supply the value of this commodity plus something that was agreed upon?
I'm not sure and I have to I have to look into it in Sharla.
sell things furnitures okay. profit sharing is profit sharing. Yeah.
Like the shops, the supplier supply on and when you sell back, you give them back. Okay, that's good. Shall I will look into it. Maybe in the next half hour we'll give you the answer shall obey the law with the permission of Allah.
There is not mentioned nothing is mentioned about it.
method and the example the the way of electing me or president is not mentioned clearly mentioned in the sooner you need to have me or halifa is a religious obligation. The oma has to have a leader. But the way of electing him or choosing him was not specified. It is part of a CSS Sharia
Rasulullah sallallahu alayhi wa sallam did not choose any halifa after him. But he hinted he gave them some hints that Abu Bakr Siddiq should be his halifa. And they were clear, actually that some some Sahaba were very clear about this matters that Abu Bakar should be the halifa based on some statements made by Ursula cell, but he did not say that. What should be my halifa he did not appoint him there was no appointment.
And Abu Bakar What did he do? He appointed Omar
Homer will hop over the alarm. And Omar did not appoint anyone, he selected six people and he said you select one of them. So do you look at it different ways. So there is a Muslim in electing the leader. But the Sherry I did not come with certain ways specific way to elect this leader. It is left to the Shura. Shura is a basic principle in our political life that we have to have modulus Shura Council of Shoreham the people of knowledge, people of leadership have to come together and select the leader, but the way they select him is left to their he had to their arrangements.
So this is this is a good example of Musleh Hamas Allah, Allah, Allah Allah.
You mentioned in your lectures. This is
the money that comes from interests of General Accounting.
So can we actually get to an event
Yeah,
yeah, the brother is saying that we mentioned before the money that comes from interest, we're supposed to get rid of get rid of it or give it as a donation. We don't give it with the intention of of giving a soda. This is something that is agreed upon. You don't give it as a saga. There is no reward in it. But you get rid of it because you are not you allowed to use it yourself.
You give it to someone else mercy to
madrasa or or a family need. When it comes to a Masjid giving it to a Masjid. Some scholars did not feel good about it did not feel comfortable about it giving this money that is coming from interest, many of them are said is halal. It's permissible. And some of them came up with some ideas we said they can tell the masjid administration of the masjid
they should use it in buying you know, washroom supplies.
This is one of the opinions of some scholars. I mean, whether it is used here or there, it should be fine. But it is not a southern. I mean, this is the but we need to get rid of it. And you don't leave it in the bank.
Yeah.
We have only five minutes left.
Five minutes left, right. For the other end, we pray 915 so tonight tonight inshallah we pray in time.
Somebody was telling me that what he does with whatever interest he accumulates from savings is that he takes it and he pays he pays the fees for the bank for the bank account and stuff.
What kind of fees? So when you have an account
Okay, okay, transactions that you make. Yeah, but the you are responsible for these transactions, you have to pay them I mean, it's your responsibility shouldn't actually you're still using the money, interest money to fulfill some of your needs. Since you have this bank account with a bank, and it pay these fees for these transactions, then you have to you're fulfilling your needs. So you're using them or the person is using them. So we should not use them to pay taxes or to pay these, these fees will love to Allah.
Yeah, just get rid of them. Give them to someone, man.
Could you say it again?
Again?
Yeah, the brother is asking about different subjects. It has nothing to do with finance. But it's okay. It's a hadith that says, the right of Allah upon the servant is to worship him without any shirk, without associating any partner with him talking here about pure sto heat, and they are right upon him is that he will not punish them if we meet him with this puteaux heat.
So basically any even if they go to jahannam and this is a form of punishment, because of some sins, they will end up in Genoa if they have purohit
more high people still hate will not stay in jahannam if they enter Jannah but they're supposed to be the normal place is in general.
There people have told me the people of La ilaha illa Allah you know, the the the the adopted line analyzer way of life and they understood and they applied the conditions of La ilaha illAllah in their life.
So they should go to Jenna, but if they go to jahannam for whatever reason, then we will not stay there forever. Allah, Allah will have mercy on them and remove them from gentlemen admit them in paradise.
But the last panel to Allah has made it a rule that a catheter or machinery has no place in general.
Even if he was a nice person or a kind person, if he's a mushrik someone who has committed children and he met a lot died with his children.
Without making Toba then he has no place in general
and machinic has no place but a Muslim who is sinful might end up in general because of his tail he then the other good deeds along to Allah.
Yes, brother.
The brother is asking about other organizations who claim that they have halen options for buying houses in this land. We talked about this subject before we said there are many companies are some of them not many actually.
There are few of them few of them available in North America. They said that they have Hillel alternatives where Helen schemes are not purely Helen.
They have some some of them have some clear
interest involved in it. Riba involved in it, some of them don't have rebar but they have other problems. They have some kind of oppression and injustice and lack of fairness in dealing with their clients and assumptions who has to it's like you're buying a house you buy a house, but you know that you're dealing with a gray area.
I should make dua that Allah subhanaw taala will help us inshallah
establish something for our Muslim communities in the future
is not enough but it is good as a first step.
We should do so try to do something but do at least is a good step towards this process. inshallah.
If you are renting a property and the landlord is using your money, your payment rental payment to pay his mortgage, it doesn't seem good, right?
he can do whatever he wants with it. But he doesn't seem good. Seems like he's not fair. Right.
But I am paying him
he will be the owner of the house at the end and he will have nothing at the end.
Is it a good statement to say I'll have nothing
you helping him? How are you helping him? You're helping say Safeway and superstore selling books and maybe because you're dealing with them too
promoting their business.
But is it right for me to say at the end you'll have nothing
if you choose not to buy through these mortgages, at the end you will have nothing
up a poor guy, miserable guy in Canada, Is it right for me to say this?
What is the right statement?
Excellent. This is what I'm looking for. The truth of law the pleasure of Allah subhana wa Jenna.
If you want Jen now you have to sacrifice for it. You have to be patient and this is a form of patience by the way not to disobey Allah when it comes to following your desires. We love to have a house I love to have a house it's a good investment rate.
We will love to do that. But if it is against the Sharia for long I'm not going to do it.
And we hope that the last Hello Tyler will appreciate our patience and we bless our wealth and families and we go to general inshallah then right? Is this nothing? Can I say nothing about this?
Yeah, but the question is he's not helping him you're not helping him is not none of your business. As long as your transaction with him is Hello.
There are two cases we have to be clear about it and this is the last question we're going to finish with this inshallah.
And the brother who asked about the consignment Can you write it down? So I take it with me remember, consignments? Please write it down. Give it to me after the Salah.
This question is really important. There are two cases. The first case is
you go to the person who tell him go and buy a house. I will rent it from you.
Or I will say buy it from you through Hillel visit first K through Hillel way. He goes to the bank, he gets a mortgage. You are a Muslim, I'm a Muslim. Let's do a halal contract. So do murabaha you bought it for how much 300,000 I'll pay you 350,000 and it's murabaha. Done deal. So my transaction with you is Helen with him is Helen right but i
I am the one who told him to go and get the house from the bank.
So here I am part of the process. I helped him because if it was not for me he wouldn't have gone to the bank and bought this house right. The other case in your case he didn't know you were not there when he bought the house from the bank. You have had nothing to do with it.
The guy's owns a house you don't know if he he paid its cash you don't know most likely to come mortgage most likely. But he's not a few is not it's not your problem. You didn't help him You didn't ask him. You are not part of this contract this non Sharia compliant contract. But you came you say they want to rent a house with you from you. What is closer to this is the dealings of Rasulullah sallallahu is the the Jewish people in Medina, they used to deal with river actually their main source of income in Medina was the river and he used to deal with them buy and sell with them but his contracts with them were Hello. Actually he passed away Salatu was Salam and he's
direct you know there What is it there is a shield
shield used in war and fighting. So it was more hoonah more Hoon It was a pledged as a deep deep deposit. He got he got he got some 30 an amount of barley or grains from from this Jew merchant and he gave him this his there as a pledge as a deposit. And he passed away well his pledge with his dinner was with this yahoodi so he used to deal with them and buy and sell he's contracts where Helen
Allah actually Allah Allah made it talent for us to eat their meat but that's another issue and marry with their woman. That's another issue but this is something that is not recommended these days because of our political situation and our conditions but that's another issue
that's another issue but but here pay thing rent, you have nothing to do with his mortgage. Allah will not take you to account for this otherwise our life will be impossible here we have to leave go back home
yeah, it's not your problem.
To becomes horrible you asked him he tell him go and buy this house and want to rent this house from you go and buy it from the bank. Here it becomes Hana.
Okay, is that cool? Okay and his panic alone, he should have learned the stuff. We're going to