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Fiqhi Debate – Part 1

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Hacene Chebbani

Channel: Hacene Chebbani

Episode Notes

Interest Based Mortgages for buying homes in Western Societies

Episode Transcript

© No part of this transcript may be copied or referenced or transmitted in any way whatsoever. Transcripts are auto-generated and thus will be be inaccurate. We are working on a system to allow volunteers to edit transcripts in a controlled system.


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Similar who are him $100 Bill arminas salatu salam ala

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Sayidina Muhammad wa ala alihi wa sahbihi Germaine a lo mo fifth nolimit hiboy todo Allahumma footnoting Madhu bertoldo along with a benefit Dean Allahumma Jin dibner zellen will hop up or fitna this swap was openurl oedema le name

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for further Leo. Mashallah, today we're starting our program about this filthy debate that took place in the West

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between two groups of scholars after this fatwa was issued in November 1999.

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And this federal law was issued by two

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organizations.

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One of them is the imageless European if tear will booth which is called the European Council for footwear research. And it was issued in November I guess in November 1999.

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And the second one was issued three weeks after this first federal law,

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and it was issued by the League of Sharia scholars of North America arrabiata trilemma, Sherry, Emery kashia Maria,

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and they had their they held their conference in Detroit in Michigan

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three weeks after the European Council has issued his his federal law. So around the same time, the first one was issued in Russia

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1420 in the Islamic calendar, and the other one in the month of Shaban in the same year 1420.

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As a result, many people in the West are confused. Is it halal or haram to buy a house through a mortgage, an interest based mortgage is taken from a bank to finance this transaction. So many people are confused about it. And there are actually when you think about it, maybe there are people are divided into three or four groups. regarding this issue, the first group have decided

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to buy and didn't wait for any federal, they did not wait for any, you know, scholarly verdict. So they decided for whatever reason, they made their choice. And they bought their houses through these kinds of mortgages. The second type of people they decided became here and they know that Riba is haram, and it's haram all the time, and every place and under every sky. And they said, We are not going to approach this, you know, this sin. And we're not going to buy a house through these kinds of mortgages. And there are people in the middle who are

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confused, and they are looking for a solution. looking for an alternative or looking for a photo that makes it hard for them. They want to feel more comfortable or looking for someone who they trust. And then to give them a fatwa that it's helpful for you to buy a house or so they are in the middle. So this program is for this group of people.

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And for the second group of people, second group who decided not to buy so they want insha, Allah will strengthen their position. They're having a discussion with their family members will with their husband having discussion with his wife or a wife, having discussion with her husband, at least as they listen to this program or watch this program in sha Allah insha Allah they will benefit at least they will get an idea if it is haram why it's haram or if it is Helen, why some people have said it is Helen, what are their proofs?

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And this is very important if someone says something hailer in Islam and he's a prominent scholar

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then he must have some proofs right he must have some arguments. So in this inshallah program, we will deal with these with these arguments through this book. So it's not something that is coming from your brother. It's, it's a book that was written by Dr. Salah hasao.

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And it's called waka fat how the method works Eva Hatton, Kuru, the Rebbe via lithium, which era and my second film which Tamati Herbie

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and this book was published in in the in the year 2000.

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But here it says the first edition was in 1999. So right away after the issue, these photographers, the chef, Mashallah is our mo Hiram. He's a leading scholar in this field.

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He has authored this book. And this book was translated as here as a reconsideration of the Federal permitting the Riba based loans for home mortgages in the West. We got a brother here. His name is Osama Hasson. And he he translated this book into and it is available online as a PDF document so everyone can download this book. You can look at it, you can download it from the internet. And according to in staples, and I have it as a book now as a booklet with me. So it was translated by brother Osama Hasson as a polite reconsideration of the Federal permitting interest based mortgages for buying homes in Western societies. This translation took place in 1422. So two years after the

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Shay has authored his book, waka fat had the in Arabic waka fat is a plural world of workflow workflow is when you stop you're in the middle of something, doing something and when you stop, you stop to do what to think. So the translation allows you to be peaceful thoughts. Because here when you read when you read a book, and then you stop at one page, you start thinking about the content of this, this you know this page or the argument. So you stop and you think in a peaceful manner. So chef call it a fat head. Yeah, it could be I think the best sociation should be peaceful thoughts on this federal but polite, polite reconsideration is a good translation too.

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Before I start dealing with this book, I would like to talk about the biography of chef Salah Sally, can we show his biography rather.

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So he's where he was born and raised in Egypt. So Salah sewing, and completed memorizing the Quran when he was seven.

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So he spent all his life serving the deen of Allah subhanho wa Taala. When he was seven, he memorized completed the memorization of the Quran.

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And he took the first place in a national Quran memorization context in 1962.

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He continued to excel in his youth ranking first in his local town and fifth nationwide when he graduated from high school.

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graduated from high school in Egypt to home country, he ranked

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he got the fifth position.

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And he completed his bachelor's degree in the Faculty of legislation and law at Al Azhar University and earned his PhD in Islamic religious sciences in the Faculty of legislation and law graduating with distinction and the highest level of honors.

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Of course, his his PhD thesis is about the issue of investments in Islamic banks and the way Islam dealt with it. It is in Arabic, but this is translation of the title. Masekela at least if marfil mukhlis Lamia, okay, for Allah Chahal, Islam. This is his PhD thesis. He taught at several universities and institutions including the faculty of legislation and law, as well as other university itself

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at Oh mancora University in Saudi Arabia. He also served as director for the Islamic World League scientific miracle Association,

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and the director for the organization's legislative research centers in Islamabad, as well as in the US. And he co founded the American Open University

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and he was vice president from the university's inception in 1995. Until 2004, he also helped to file the assembly of Muslim jurists in North America, which is called now MGM. MGM is an organization trying to solve Muslims in the West, beginning photographers and making organizing conferences about issues and

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and he serves now as the Secretary General of this organization, which is

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a servant leader for Muslim jurists in North America.

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In 2004, he co founded the Sharia Academy of America, now called Muscat University, who got this biography from this university

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and has served as the institution's president since 2006.

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And he's considered one of the leading scholars of his time. And Dr. salasar. He has authored many books is the list of his books Can you can you show show the list

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can you go down

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so these are most of these

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Books are, of course, all of them are written in Arabic. But many of them are translated. Not all of them, but some of them are translated like the one that we have here. reconsideration of the Federal permitting interest base mortgages.

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And I don't know about the other books, but I know that as a fact that some of them are translated into English, we'll learn how to

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play.

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We'll start with

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this program by looking at the foreword that was written by Dr. Andy amadis cellos. And, uh, Dr. Ali Ahmed soluz, is another Egyptian scholars scholar who lives in in Qatar now. And he's a professor of physics and also in the Faculty of Sharia, University of copper is phukan, economics advisor of both Islamic academies, the one that belongs to the organization of the Islamic conference, one of them at the bottom are Islamic, and the one that belongs to the Muslim World League.

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The first one has its headquarter in Jeddah, and the second one

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got his its headquarter in in Macau, but they have offices all over the world.

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So shefali Luce has written also is is an authority in his field, and he has authored many books. And he's a well recognized scholar in Islamic jurisprudence. Dr. Ali Ahmed is cielos.

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He wrote a foreword here and I believe that this food is very important because it tells us about the right the right methodology of the people of knowledge. He mentioned here two principles that are very important. He wrote that this federal law was our this book was written as a response to the fatwa issued by these two organizations, as I mentioned before the European Council of federal and research and and the second one the Sherry as scholars or the legal scholars of North America. So he said this book is a refutation, or was written as a response to this festival. And he recognized that this book was written with a polite scholarly style, indicating an abundance of

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knowledge, gentleness of character and sincerity of brotherhood and concern for Islam and Muslims in the West. So the sheer Salah, so he was polite with his opponents, he did not attack their personalities.

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He didn't discuss people he discussed ideas.

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And he showed respect, whenever my friend and one of the scholars who participated in the, in this federal in making this federal is a Shia Salah, Shia Yusuf al qaradawi. So whenever shifts Allah saw, he would mention sous chef use of accardo, who would say Allah, Allah, the respected Allah Allah, Dr. Yusuf al qaradawi. So he treated him with respect, because he is the most prominent scholar among those group of scholars, scholars who have issued this federal, as a matter of fact, he is the President of the European Council for factual and research.

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And in this program in sha Allah, we try to follow his methodology and his manners. We try to have a debate with the scholars, we respect all people of knowledge, but we have the right to disagree with them. So there is a difference between disagreement and between showing respect to the people of people of knowledge. So the chef here in his foreword, chalisa, loose, he wanted to share with us two principles and these two principles are very important.

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And he said I want to narrate something from an Imam Shafi read the book of Imam Shafi, a reseller, he said that Imam Shafi retransmitted in his, with his chain of narratives on the authority of Saddam Hussein, that aroma. This is an example that has nothing to do with interest or mortgages has to do with blood money. But there is a lesson to be learned from these. In this example, there is another example we'll deal with it to remember, we have decreed that the blood money should be 15 camels for the farm. If someone breaks the hand of someone else, or causes some damage to his hand, so he has to play pay blood money. Now, so long as I sell him decreed that this blood money should

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be 50 camels. This is the knowledge that Omar got from Russell was that if someone breaks the hand of someone is hand is gone. Then he has to pay this money, which is the amount of 50 camels and that is the federal of Rasulullah sallallahu.

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So Roman haka, based on this knowledge

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He made his own fatwah using his own personal interpretation.

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He said Roman hottub decreed that the blood money should be 15 camels for the thumb 10 for the forefinger 10 for the middle finger nine for the next finger and six for the little finger. But that is me rusty had from Rama ricotta. He didn't know that so much. SLM had a different arrangement. So he said then the shaft he then says Chevy Rahmatullah alley, he said, since it was known that rumor, to rumor that the Prophet has decreed 50 camels for the hand, since the head comprises five fingers differing in their beauty and their benefits. So here he used analogy

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of the alarm, he said, these fingers are different, they are not the same, and they have different benefits. So using analogy so he said since he he gotta be alone and who knew this, he treated each one accordingly ruling for each finger portion of the blood money for the whole hand. However, when they found the letter, there are people who came after Omar, the chairperson when he filed the letter in the possession of the family of Amarillo hasn't so Lhasa Salim gave this man a letter and he actually he sent this letter to the people of Yemen

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and the in this letter so Lhasa Salim told them in detail about some cameras or cats or rulings regarding Zakat, and regarding the rulings of blood money, different types of blood money that should be paid, when there is an accident when someone kills someone by accident or breaks his hand or his leg or causes his causes bodily damage, you know, to one of his, the parts of his body. Then there is a there is a ruling there and also Allah says Allah mentioned but in this letter he found that Russian Lhasa Salim May Allah bless him and grant him peace said for each finger 10 camels are do

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the said he mama chef, he said the took this position. And they did not accept this letter in the position of the family of American husband. And Allah knows best until it was approved to them that it was the letter of the Messenger of Allah.

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So Mmm. In this Hadith, he's saying this, Dr. Ali, he said in this howdy there is evidence for two matters Firstly, acceptance of a report from the Messenger of Allah and secondly the report is not accepted what is not accepted until it soundness is established. So you have to establish the soundness of the report. And then you accept it you accept the report or the Hadith from Rasul Allah and you act upon it, and you abandon the fresh words and the opinions of other scholars, even if the arts or hobbies or grades or hobbies or whoever Rashidi like romagnoli kopparberg, the alojado

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and immerman. Chevy mentioned another

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another incident to another event, because he said that if Mr. moussaka knew about the Federal Office of Law sell him he would never use his personal interpretation. He would never issue a different federal and he gave it daily for that another deli Lima Misha ferry, he said aroma ricotta used to say that the blood money must be paid by those liable and the wife cannot inherit from the blood money of her husband. This defect will form the alarm. Why? Because we know that blood money should be paid by the main family members of the one who killed someone by mistake. But these family members has to be they have to be from his father's side. But his wife does not pay does not

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contribute if he himself killed someone else by mistake. So all the main family members from his father's side we'll get together and the way if he is not able to pay the blood money. This used to be called an app ILA the title of Rasulullah saw some people are not I mean, people they don't know each other nowadays, I mean, let alone paying on behalf of each other this blood man, but anyway.

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So that was the federal law that the wife cannot inherit since she cannot look he's using his personal interpretation. Here he is. She's not supposed to pay when she doesn't inherit if he's killed by mistake. If he himself her husband is killed by mistake, someone has killed him and other people would pay the blood money for the family. Then since she doesn't pay when she doesn't inherit, but there is a man his name is Bob

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hackernews Sophia and he informed later informed him informed the rumor that the Messenger of Allah May Allah bless him and grant in peace has written to him he had written a letter to him, saying that the wife of a Shem of the baby of the Allahu anhu should inherit from the blood money of her husband. So Omar here he got a photo of phenomenal so La Silla and Omar changed his opinion right away.

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Are they alone? So the principle here is that personal interpretations, or the text the divine text from the Quran, whether from the Quran or the Hadith, has a priority and has to be used, and our

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personal interpretations have to be neglected and ignored. When there is a divine a clear divine text from Allah Subhana Allah to Allah in the Quran, or from the center of messenger sallallahu alayhi wa sallam.

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The second principle that he mentioned in his foreword, it is a statement made by chef Islam with Tamia Rama to Lai LA. So he said, you understand we Tamia was talking about different issues and different, you know, disagreements between scholars. But he said at the end, it is not permissible for anyone to pursue the mistakes of the people of knowledge, it is not permissible for anyone to follow the mistakes of the people of knowledge, just as it is not permissible for him to speak about the people have knowledge and faith except as they deserve. So he's not supposed to follow their mistakes, but at the same time, he's not supposed to attack the honor and the dignity you have to

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treat them with with respect. And this is the second principle. What is the argument or the foundation of this principle? He said that Allah subhanho wa Taala has forgiven their mistakes. Because in the Quran, Surah Al Baqarah, Rabanne, Allah to Allah in nesina, Asana I will no do not punish us if we forget her. And Allah subhanaw taala in the Hadith said had it could see I have answered this prayer. So, Allah subhanaw taala is forgiven for the people of knowledge, their mistakes, so we have no right to attack their the honor or try to put them down or criticize their you know, I mean, discuss their their personalities who should discuss ideas and photographers but

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not people. And also the he said among part of the men has you filler sell a facade, but the people have knowledge, they always ask Allah to forgive their mistakes and to forgive the mistakes of other people who

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weren't in a levinas akuna bilimora benefit Lana, Nina levina Saba Puna with a man our Lord forgive us, and our brother superseded as in faith. So he says yet Islam, Tamia, this is something which is obligatory upon the Muslims in all matters resembling these matters. So here we mentioned two important principles in this men hash. And this is our methodology in shadowline, or our lessons and programs. And this is what we encourage everyone to do, that we shouldn't follow the mistakes of the people flawless. But at the same time, we have to treat them with respect. And we recognize their efforts, their good intention, humanize their contribution to the Islamic work, and don't try to put

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them down with Allahu taala alum.

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She Holly wanted to remind those people who issued these fatwah about few things that happen in the past. And as I said, they keep mentioning Yusuf Al qaradawi, because he is the most, you know, famous scholar among those who issued the spectra. And they said, Charlie, he's saying here that he himself should use avocado he said in the past had explained in the past, that such mistaken fat was and not to be fooled. And he said when the federal appeared permitting the bank's interest income. One time the Mufti in Egypt he passed away is not necessarily to mention his name, but he passed away. And he said that the interest the bank's interest is Helen Bullock, Helen.

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So all the erla in the whole world say that this is haram, all of them refuted his opinion and rejected his opinion. And Shirakawa himself wrote a book

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refuting this opinion opinion of this Mufti from Egypt when he said that the interest of banks interest is Hello.

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And he reminded the sheer use of accardo in what he said in about what he said in his book. One of the things he mentioned was that the Islamic research assembly measurement alpenhotel

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Islamia me and this is an organization in Egypt had given the fatwa in its second conference, this is the use of karma, we say that such income was Haram. And that aroma from 35 countries had participated in this conference about you know, the interest coming from banks or conventional banks. He said 30 rule ama scholars have participated from 35 countries that participate in this conference, and he mentioned the names of some of the exceptionally great odema who took part in the issuing of this federal. So, he said, He then said such collective he had cannot be revoked, if it is possible to revoke it, this can only be done by collective she had a greater than it or at least

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equal to it, if you bring a big number of scholars like these number of scholars, to revoke this Jihad that could be accepted.

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But this he had collective which he had done by hand and scholars coming from 35 countries, and most of them are well recognized scholars cannot be revoked by the Federal, of one scholars, even if he's the Mufti of Egypt, were loyal to Allah. And then he said, he said this conference itself stated the fact that there is no difference between landing and borrowing, this is something important we will deal with it later on, because there are people

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who believed that there is a difference between lending and borrowing. When you land you take Riba

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you consume river when you borrow you pay river,

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okay, so they say there is a difference and based on this, in a view, we might feel comfortable dealing with Riba and taking loans from banks will love Thailand. So, this conference said, lending with interest is prohibited and is not permitted by need or necessity, we have insured at different levels of needs, we have necessity, Aurora, and has a need and we have a family yet luxuries.

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And necessity was you know, defined by some scholars, it is a situation in which one reaches a limit, where if one does not take a prohibited, think one will die, or be about to die. This is the definition of Aurora. And in the Maliki school of thought necessity is preserving lives from being lost, or from being greatly injured. And the second level of needs is alhaja, which is the idea it's a basic need. And if it is not fulfilled, one one would face some difficulty and some hardship, it doesn't reach the level of necessity. But if someone does not benefit from it, or does not use it, that he might use a great deal of hardship to great, great deal with a great deal of hardship and

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difficulty.

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birther in this conference, they said borrowing with interest is similarly prohibited here and it is prohibited like lending and the sin of this is not removed except in the case of absolute necessity. So lending is always haram but borrowing could be Hillel in the case of necessity, which is the Aurora and I mentioned the definition of Aurora because many people play with this concept of Aurora said I am facing Aurora and it could be just some difficulty you know, it's not the rule in reality. So it's not about you or me to define the Aurora the Aurora may have defined Aurora what is Aurora

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regarding this issue, someone who doesn't have a shelter and staying in the street, but his family in the street This is a door that he's allowed here to take interest, take loans from the bank and and buy a house if it is the only way to fulfill this. This need because having

00:29:02--> 00:29:39

renting a house or having a shelter is a need. And owning isn't a necessity sorry. Having shelter is a necessity. But owning your house is a need is not a necessity. So we'll talk about this inshallah in the next lecture you know lectures. So this conference itself, the Chico Carnival he has mentioned as a proof to the to refute the opinion of this Mufti who said that the bank's interest is haram. This conference itself has stated in the same fatwa that there is no difference between lending and borrowing.

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He mentioned also the fifth assembly Organization of Islamic conference, or the Academy.

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have, you know, the organization of the Islamic Center, the one that I mentioned before, they got some letters and questions from Washington, DC from the

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Institute of Islamic thought asking about buying a home to live a car for personal use domestic furniture, through loans from banks and institutions. And this Islamic Academy or Academy. These are, you know,

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these two academies are as the most respected and well recognized academies in the Muslim world.

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Much mockery, salami, taverley, Robert Lamm slammy, and the other one, Mr. Le slamming. So the assembly answers that this was not allowed under Sharia. And it not mentioned, for example, that the Muslims of Washington were in Dar Al Harb, that had herpes called the land of war, and we'll talk about the relationship between this federal and the classification of lands in Islam. Somalia must be classified the land, all lands on this on this globe into two types, the land of Islam and the land of war. In some arena, they are majority, they classify all lands into three, the land of Islam, the land of war, and the land of treaty and peace. So we have used this this concept and the

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effect will, we'll talk about it actually is it is the first

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the first premise or the first argument that was used to justify this federal

00:31:29--> 00:31:29

now,

00:31:30--> 00:31:58

the, the end of this book, Chef Salah saw, he said have mentioned some of the administrative deviations. So talking about fetch, we're talking about knowledge, arguments, and premises and basis. But there are some administrative deviations that took place when while organizing these conferences. But then when you call people for a conference, a conference usually because callers

00:32:00--> 00:32:48

and the call the invite also experts in the in that field if they are talking about finance, so the the invite some people who are specialized in finance, if they are dealing with a medical issue, they invite scholars and they invite at the same time medical doctors or people who are specialized in biology to give them some information about that specific issue. So at the end, we do voting who is for this fedwire who is against so there was a process and then shift salasar we mentioned some deviations, some problems with this process, some problems that took place when issuing these fatwah and these these deviations took place when the conference was the second one actually was was done

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organized in Detroit in Michigan.

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And one of the scholars who

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rejected this federal and he was present there is the wall respected he mentioned his name Sherif Ali solution in his foreword, he said I was extremely moved by the position taken by the respective chair who happens to highly she whoever so highly is well respected scholar in the field of domain effect is the one who offers this book, this black book here 1-234-567-8910 10 volumes we have here at Berkeley, snowy, we're at the letter. So this scholar, he's a Syrian scholar.

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He said while crying, he was crying after the issue the make the final declaration. He said we will have a situation with you on the Day of Judgment. And he was crying.

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Of course they are names those who will know at the end of the book, but those who rejected this federal law who were present in that conference, their names were not mentioned in the final declaration. This is one of the problems that took place when issuing this letter.

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At the end, Schiff said in his foreword, and this is again, very beautiful and appreciated from both of them. He said the respected, shaken Corrado, he shares, shares the concerns of the Muslims around the world,

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and has born much for their sake. So because of that we love and respect him.

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And we always pray for him. Nevertheless, we also disagree with him greatly, because I think this issue, but at the same time we recognize his station and worth and the loftiness and nobility of his aim. So again, talking repeating the same two principles, we have the right to disagree with them with their opinions, but at the same time we love them, respect them and pray for them.

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And this is our man has insha Allah in all 50 Messiah matters that we deal with

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that what time is tomorrow

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At 42

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right now we'll go through the, the the preface or the introduction written by Chef selasa himself.

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He said there was traveling outside the United States of America, I came back and he heard about this conference that took place in Detroit, Michigan, in chabanne 1420. And he said, I have examined with great care there, the final declaration and looked into their discussions and the papers that were presented in this conference. And I also examined the first word or the final declaration that was issued by the European Council for fatwa and research.

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As I said, this one has issued a fatwa three weeks before the other one. Hi, Allahu Allah. To me, it seems that there was some coordination between the two organizations will love Thailand, they did not mention this, but he mentioned the time frame between these two conferences were low to Allah.

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in this, in this introduction,

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he mentioned two of the premises. He said these declarations were based on treating need has, like necessity in allowing the forbidden. So we have the necessity that allows the forbidden, but we have the need, that might allow some things that are forbidden, but not all the time, it's not like necessity. So, he said the premise the first premise here is that you treat it

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like a necessity, they look at the conditions of Muslims in the West, when they are renting and the problems that they are facing.

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Sorry, and they said they declared that this is a need, but the treated the took the knee this knee to the level of necessity

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because this Riba is a major sin and it cannot can only be allowed through necessity. So we take the need to the level of necessity. We try to justify this when you be able to justify the buying of the house through these mortgages. And he said the second purpose is the the relied on the position of Imam Abu hanifa and his student Mohammed we don't have any Shivani

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namely the few dealing in Riba that dealing in Riba is allowed in barrel.

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Darren whereby said he said, which is it is a land to fall. But this enter using the use of this concept has actually led to many contradictions and many problems in this federal because they themselves the conference that took place in America in the United States, in the final the declaration, they did not mention these permits this argument. But in the European the European Council has clearly mentioned in their final declaration these permits, but we know for a fact that all of them all the scholars, they don't believe that Europe or North America is a land of war.

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We know for a fact that we believe it is a land of peace and treating. And that's why here this is there is a deep problem here with their arguments, but we will talk about it of course we go through it. So people inshallah will be convinced at the end, you know, and everything will be clear, every if nothing if there is something that is not clear. We'll leave it all the way till the end, and we'll talk about it. But this we're still dealing with the introduction here.

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Regarding the conference that took place in North America, he

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told us about some parts of the statement and the statement is very important as educated people you need to look into it and and go through this discussions and try to understand what happened and also the validity of this. You know, this declaration they said they said the current method of buying homes via via banks who pay the price to the seller and receive installments from the buyer is fundamentally Riba. So they recognize that this is Riba.

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So to start with,

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we are not allowed to say that the made Reba holla because I have I have seen some discussions online between people refuting these factual people, you know, supporting this factual and they were saying that these scholars have made Reba Hillel This is a big statement.

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Newer can make river Hillel. We did not make Reba Helen I heard people in Calgary are saying Oh, some scholars have made Reba Hillel in the West.

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This is a false statement.

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did not make river halen they are saying it's fundamentally river because it is river of loans very bad. Do you own that was mentioned in the Quran? It is worse than the rebels will do you have business transactions that was mentioned in the sooner. The river of business transactions we talked about it before is not mentioned in the Quran. The Quran only talks about Riba Do you and these interests coming from conventional banks is part of Riba Do you know that the Quran mentioned. So they're saying it's fundamentally where they recognize that it is River. So you cannot say that they have allowed the river in the West, they have allowed for some Muslims to buy within houses through

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these kinds of mortgages, mortgages within with some conditions. But we we, I mean, we had to resort to our lead to some contradictions when it's had some problems. And we'll talk about them in Sharla. So here and they said they continued and it is not allowed for a Muslim or he can find a Sharia compliant look at this federal, it is not allowed for a Muslim when he can find a Sharia compliant alternative, which fulfills his need. Such alternatives include a contract with a company which provides finance on the basis of interest free payment repayment by installment by an agile six profit margin murabaha

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or diminishing partnership with sharika Moo Tanaka.

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So and they said we are Sharia compliant alternative is not found.

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And a Muslim wants to own a house via banking, finance, most of the participants who have problem with this statement most of the participants, because there are a number who rejected this federal law, they said they were not the majority.

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When you count non specialists, they become majority. If you have a group of scholars and medical doctors talking about a medical issue, right? And then he make a vote at the end, and medical doctors will raise their hand voting for that photo.

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Do we count the votes of the medical doctors? We don't? Because they are not chariot scholars here because in this conference, we're looking for the sherea. No view. It's not. We're not we don't care about the opinions of the medical doctors. So they had no specialist people who no in that moment, that people who are naturally as scholars, and they voted for it. And then they ended up saying most of the participants take the view that it is allowed to own the house via a mortgage from the bank.

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Due to the need, which is treated as a necessity

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to conditions must be satisfied that the Muslim is outside the oral Islam. And this is another problem too. Like it is halal only for the people who live in the West. How about the people who live in cemeteries in Egypt? How about people who live in some Muslim countries and capital cities? And they have they are a big family, husband and wife and five or six children and they have only one room in that room the the the sleep? They go to bed, the cook, they use the washroom in that room? How about these people? They don't deserve a fatwa like this. So this federal law they are saying it's only for those who live outside the land of Islam. Based on the first premise the

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premise of the fatwa of a memorable hanifa and his student Mohammed Hassan Shaban

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Lai Allah may Allah have mercy on all of them, that the need exists. They said that the Muslim is outside of Islam, and that the need exists for the generality of those settled outside the Islamic lens to resist social, economic, moral and religious corruption and to achieve the benefits entailed by protecting the religion and Islamic personality, what do we mean by it? If Muslims start buying the choose their houses, so they can make an arrangement and buy all their houses in one area and the former Muslim community in one area and then they will be able to protect their children protect their families because they can have a mercy there okay. But this is this happening nowadays. Do you

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see it happening?

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And then he said he must limit himself to a house which he needs for residence and not use this method for trade or investment. And actually, this festival has opened door to many people to buy the second one. And the third one, I didn't hear about it, but I know people who who bought the second one, and they said aroma have made it hard for people who live in the West.

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And then they shave heavy the whole law shifts the law. So he said, this is

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after the introduction, he included something very important note here, saying that this is a scholarly debate, not a partisan conflict.

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Scholarly debate and academic debate has nothing to do with partisan conflict and, you know, frictions and disagreement between parties and movements, Islamic movements and Islamic centers or groups.

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He said the basis that should govern comments and discussions such as these, and research and studies such as those under discussion is sincerity to Allah, to his book, to his messenger to the leaders of the Muslims, and to the common folk. Any discussion should not go beyond purely fatigue grounds,

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which distinguishes scholarly debate remaining away from agitation, provocation, or mutual accusations and abuse.

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Any discussion must not go beyond the limits of etiquette which our righteous predecessors upheld during the scholarly differences. And he quoted him as Asakura demovsky nasaka they must be he said you who moulana Ms. muma. He said, the flesh of the people of knowledge is poisoned. And the way of a lion exposing their malefactors is known their abusers, the one who abused the honor and dignity fathers collars. So whoever files slander with his tongue at the people of knowledge, Allah punishes him before his death with the death of his heart.

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And this is the statement of masaka Demosthenes is a great scholar who lived in Damascus. And he lived he passed away in 571, in the hijiri, calendar in the year 1176.

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And this is a beautiful statement, our young people have to

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you know, have to memorize actually the statement and pay attention when discussing the views and the opinions of other scholars because we have seen young people who have no experience they have no knowledge,

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memorizing few ahaadeeth here and there and few here and there. And then you know, making big comments and statements about great scholars trying to put in put them down or, you know, attack their personalities. This is not something that is appreciated, is not accepted in the deen of Allah subhanaw taala.

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And he said, cefs Allah sorry, the matter becomes even more ugly when parties and desires appear in the way so that an issue is accepted or rejected, because it agrees with the preference of this party or the other. This is our typical, however, if I belong to one group of

00:47:54--> 00:48:02

any specific Islamic movement, or an Islamic group or an organization, I accept their views because I am one of them.

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And I reject the views of other scholars because I don't belong to this group. So this is partisan, these are parties and desires that are not accepted in the Dean of philosophy panel to Allah, the dean philosophy what Allah belongs to Allah and all Muslims should be treated equally. And we should listen to all opinions and respect all scholars and Allah Allahu to Allah alum.

00:48:29--> 00:48:33

Now, Chef salasar, we mentioned here,

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where there are six he mentioned that they use six arguments to support their federal six arguments or six premises from and all of them are arguments.

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Some of them are legal legal, Maxim's from Islamic jurisprudence, but there is no iron, and there is no Hadith. Just to be frank with you. The first one is what is attributed to Imam Abu hanifa. And some other people have knowledge of the permissibility of dealing via invalid contracts in dharuhera, including dealing in River.

00:49:13--> 00:49:38

So this factor was attributed to a man body fat even if we disagree, as I said with him, Mr. hanifa and his students, we have to show our respect and love to them. No one is immune from committing mistakes. We have seen that Roman Amano, who is better than all of these scholars have admitted that he committed a mistake and changed his opinion when he heard about the hadith of Rasulullah sallallahu earlier

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and he noted here that the final conference declaration of the League of Sharia scholars in North America did not mention this premise.

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Because they feel embarrassed about it because deep inside they don't believe that this is data. But why using something you don't believe in it

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because all of them, we believe

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They believe this is the land is the land of treaty and peace.

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But anyway, this is a different issue, we're not going to discuss it, but this is what the first argument that was used

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the second argument, the principle of cheating need

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as necessities in allowing forbidden we talked about it, we have necessities we have needs future you need a need like a necessity then

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you can justify making something haram

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making it Hello.

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And then the third the third argument

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they said whatever is prohibited as a means towards evil may be allowed out of need, this is a legal maximum effect a maximum well whatever is essentially prohibited can only be permitted out of necessity and moharram this man what is forbidden injury is two types well haram Li that he essentially prohibited essentially forbidden haram liberty in itself is haram. Like for example having an illegal relationship with a woman is in itself the act in itself is haram.

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But, you know, staying in one room with this non Muslim woman is nothing more haram flee that he is Muharram because it might lead to the other act or mingling with woman free mixing at free mixing it could be haram not because it is in itself haram because it lead it leads might lead to the other act. So we have Muharram lidda t mo haram Li so in English, what is prohibited as a means towards evil,

00:51:50--> 00:52:17

maybe allowed out of need method and a woman who did not find a female doctor, she's allowed to go and meet a male Doctor Who is non Muharram is a non Muslim, because there is a need here she is sick and she needs to be treated. But she has to look for a female doctor, she could not find a female doctor, when in this case she is allowed to go because this Muharram is not haram Li that is Muharram Lee it was prohibited as a means towards evil.

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And whatever is essentially prohibited can only be permitted out of necessity, what is their point here that there is difference between borrowing and lending. So they said since what is essentially prohibited is the devouring of river consuming river taking Riba

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that is what is only permitted out of necessity. But those things that lead to that such as paying Riba writing or witnessing to the contract, are prohibited as a means towards evil. And so they are permitted out of need.

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You look at their arguments here. So we need to understand the argument and then we discuss this argument later on inshallah. And that's why you need to attend the second lecture. And the third lecture, if you miss it, listen to it on the YouTube because I don't want you to

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leave this place with their arguments, and you don't listen to the response.

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I cannot finish the whole book in this one. So I'm not responsible for whatever choice you make, listen to the arguments, but you need to listen to the discussion of these arguments to

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the fourth argument, that the Muslim is not obliged under the Sharia, to establish Islamic civil, financial and political law and other such matters, which are related to the general system in a society which does not accept Islam, any basically they are saying that you as a Muslim, you are not responsible for the political system that they have or the financial system have nothing to do with the financial system, political system and all these things. And the said

00:54:04--> 00:54:50

the prohibition of Riba is one of these rulings, which is related to the essential nature of the society and to the philosophy of the state and its social and economic orientation. Rather the Muslim is required to establish the rulings which concern him personally, such as those of ritual worship, food, drink dress and those related to manage divorce, marriage, ADA, inheritance and other personnel matters. So, they say you are responsible for this with this is true, but the end result could be no rejected, but the the statement itself it is true, you cannot change the financial system in this country. And you are not responsible and I will not take you to account because you

00:54:50--> 00:55:00

live in this country and the financial system is based on Riba. Oh, the political system is not in line with Sharia. It's not your problem.

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We cannot change it. But you are responsible for your marriage, for your divorce, for your inheritance, for your food, for your drink, for rituals of worship, this statement is true.

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But there are sometimes things that are true can be used to justify something that is not accepted, we will talk about it, then these ads, these are such that if these methods are constrained for him, because no one is forcing you to buy,

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to go to the bank and buy, you're not forced other things, you are other laws and regulations, you are forced maybe to abide by them in this society, otherwise, you cannot stay right. But no one is forcing you in this society to go to the bank and take a loan.

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So, he needs to pay attention to this. So these are such that if these matters are constrained for him, and he's not able to establish his religion in them, in a way it becomes obligatory for him to migrate within Allah has spacious earth as soon as he finds a way to do so. And this is true if we're not able to establish Islam to praise him out to pray the five daily prayers and not establish the deen especially your your personal matters, and your dean, you're a badass then you have to leave this is a general

00:56:20--> 00:56:30

ruling, I will talk about it in a different inshallah occasion about staying here leaving this country will we have a plan inshallah to do whatever about it, it needs some research here.

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The fifth argument

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or we find, still have five minutes time at what time is mine.

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So we'll finish the argument. And then we conclude. And we continue shall our next halaqa. He said the fifth one, the consequences of not dealing with these invalid contracts.

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Now this is a big problem here dealing with invalid contracts. Because we're opening a door here, including river in dharohar, that the Muslims holding fast to Islam becomes a cause for his economic weakness and financial loss, because you are paying someone you are renting. So someone has taken mortgage from the bank and you are renting his house. So he is becoming powerful because he's making money and you are becoming weak, because you are paying him rent. You're not it's not investment, he's making an investment. You're not making an investment. This is their argument. Whereas the basic principle is that Islam strengthens a person and does not weaken him increases human

00:57:41--> 00:57:51

prosperity and does not decrease him and benefits him and does not harm him. There is no safety and security there is no increase in disobedience of Allah subhanaw taala

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number six the overall benefits which will result from the permissibility of owning houses in this way.

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So they said protections of one once religion, as I said, when the people do it in a certain way when they buy houses in one area, and they get together and they build their Masjid. So because they are talking about protection of one's religion

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and Islamic personality, improvement of the Muslims living condition, liberation from the economic shackles, liberation from economic shackles, we'll talk about it, we'll discuss it if it is true or not. We will we'll take a mortgage for 25 years and most of the people have taken mortgage they said we don't continue actually we cannot some people cannot some people face many problems so so are the you know liberated from the economic shackles. We'll talk about it. Thus they will be able to fulfill the obligation of our Mashallah and take part in building the society at large such that their level will rise they will then deserve to be called the best nation brought forth demand for

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mankind and will become a radiant image of Islam in front of the non Muslims these are the most important premises from upon which the duty declaration the two declarations European or American relied in allowing these you Julius loans for homebuying for Muslims settled in these societies. And then we'll talk about the rest inshallah of the reservations and discussions in the in the next halaqaat inshallah.

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So,

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we are not going to take questions, I'm sorry. You have to pray for her. And I apologize for answering questions after mark. Because I have few things to do in the office. Very busy have to finalize finished some a few things. So I cannot answer questions. If you have any discussion, anything to discuss in short, I promise next time we'll give you some time and we'll inshallah give you a chance to ask questions. But we invite you to come back because he's not fair to hear the

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arguments and did not listen to the discussions and the response to these arguments. Here's our qumola Hayden Barak aloha